TheMaster

To make it very clear where I stand: as an affiliate who follows the rules (maybe I'm stupid for doing this), I would love nothing more for sponsors to clean up the abuse within & have the big fights.
But going after little people, I've no interest in that, because it won't help my conversions, it seems unfair when the big guys stay safe, and it'll just result in horror stories about the industry.

__________________

tony286

if someone is stealing then they arent a consumer.

TheMaster

really??? you can't mean such an idiot thing right? (or do you really buy the nonsense RIAA is peddling)

you're claiming that people who download music, movies, porn, ... without paying never pay for content? I seem to remember Harvard research claiming that big music downloaders for instance also buy more music than most people.
Also reality prooves you wrong: most people have a mix of things they paid for and things they didn't pay for.

__________________

TheMaster

make it impossible for people to get your stuff for free, cut the supply, that'll help your sales much more than randomly suing downloaders

__________________

Robbie

I understand what you're saying...but you also have to understand that there ARE millions and millions of people stealing out there. Just go to pornbb dot org and feast your eyes. And that is just ONE surfer forum chock full of entire site rips done by those "innocent" people that you may think are being "targeted".

Look, I've been working this thing since piracy first REALLY took off a couple of years ago. At first I didn't understand what was happening. Hell, I thought it was the tubes and torrent sites themselves stealing. And then I started googling....and started finding all these links to different surfer forums. And my whole world changed.

I then realized what was really happening. And I took steps to protect my stuff. But boy, that first 40 or 50 scenes we had that were on .wmv in our website in the beginning? It's all that removeyourcontent can do to TRY and keep that down to a minimum.

I've been successful in keeping Claudia-Marie from being destroyed by piracy. But other paysites that either don't know what to do or thought in the beginning that they could "work" the tubes and torrents and file share sites? I can't make a sale on them to save my soul.

So yeah, I would actually LOVE it if Fox News reported that people stealing content were getting nailed. The more that everybody out there knows what can happen to them for stealing, the sooner the stealing will stop.

And again...no 16 year old boys are going to steal mommies credit card to join a site to steal content. They don't need to. They can just watch it on pornhub for free.
Nope, the people we are going after are the ones uploading it. They are the culprits, plain and simple. Watching it on a tube isn't a crime.

Now if you download physically from a torrent? Now you fucked up. People have been "trained" to think all porn is free for the last two years.
Well now they are going to be trained that IF you steal porn, it's your ass. And you should be applauding that.

EDIT: And to address the subject of financially "ruining" some poor soccer mom...No, it doesn't work that way. As I said earlier, we keep the settlement price down to just below what it would cost to get a lawyer and fight it. It's not a situation that will destroy somebody financially. But it will hurt their wallet enough to make a difference and deter them next time.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

tony286

Harvard didnt research porn. Well when I find my content on forums.Funny I never see anyone say boy I got to sign up for that. Its can someone post more.

DamianJ

That's exactly what I thought when I read this Fabian. Why bother making a site, when you can just blackmail people into giving you some cash.

Innocent until proven guilty? Fuck that shit, let's just extort some money from some people someone allegedly downloaded a file that may or may not be copyrighted. After all, this isn't about proof, it's about scaring some potential customers into giving you hush money.

More at http://www.adultmarketing.co.uk/2010...wer-to-piracy/

DWB

Neither has your company. God miracles all of those videos onto your sites.

Refresh my memory please. Why is Pink Visual suing you guys? I'm sure it's probably all just a big misunderstanding and they don't understand the law (the big dummies), but I'd like to hear the reason regardless.

DamianJ

So, Robbie, I'm interested. What PROOF do you have they have stolen your content?

tony286

people that steal arent your fans. especially when you put your sweat and blood in something and they take it without a thought.

jscott

VERY good!

__________________
“If you think tough men are dangerous, wait until you see what weak men are capable of.”
—Jordan B. Peterson

d-null

isn't the "open wifi" defense enough of a reasonable doubt defense that any conviction would be unlikely? are you legally responsible by precedent for anything that happens on your ip even if others gain access it, are you legally required by law to strongly encrypt access to your router?

just asking

Robbie

Not if the ip matches that same persons Join IP, the download ip, and the upload ip.
This stuff is very easy to correlate. Unless the guy that lives next door to you has stolen your identity, your credit cards, and your home address as well as hacking your wifi, then it's open and shut. You forget...I can see all the info of every member. So I know their join ip, and I see them logging in everytime and see the ip they log in from. So I know that person HAS to match. They can't just join a site on a hacked wifi and get away with it because we have all their personal info on file already. So we aren't just looking for an IP address...we're looking for the actual person who joined and downloaded it and then re-uploaded it. And since we also use geo-ip password protection....nobody can log in from someplace different with that user/pass and do the deed either.

Not going after any "maybe" cases. We go after the ones that are positively identified in every way. It's slam/dunk. And again...those surfer forums that hurt us for so long? They are now my friend. Those morons IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as the ones who uploaded it and ask for the other members of the forum to reply with "Thanks" everytime one of them downloads it. Low hanging fruit. And POSITIVE identification via self-incrimination.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

DWB

Even better... why pay for content or shoot it yourself when you can just steal it... err.... I mean, have it user uploaded?


Videos have a funny way of just walking out of your site and ending up somewhere else.

Oh yea, proof....

Ever hear of the term receiving stolen property? That means that if someone steals a car stereo (or anything else) and you buy it, borrow it, or steal it from them, and then you get caught with it, guess what happens? Yea... you get charged with receiving stolen property. Crazy huh? So if you use that idea, everyone is guilty of stealing it (if they are downloading it for free) even if they were not the ones who actually stole it from the site.

Now, I have nooooo idea if that holds true for intellectual property or not (I would hope it does), I'm just saying... they are all guilty.

Robbie

Please read post number 163 where I just spelled it out for you. Why are you ALWAYS playing devils advocate in favor of piracy damian? First you claimed that you COULD download my high quality streams in my members area...and failed. And now you are here again defending it. Don't you realize you are hurting yourself? Piracy is KILLING this industry man.

And I don't think you are in favor of it...but you always are negative when people actually DO SOMETHING about it.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Agent 488

i thought you have everything protected. how they get your stuff?

DWB

You are one BAD ASS mother fucker.

d-null

ok Robbie, I understand that, but you are taking the original theme of the thread in a slightly different direction, this thread started about being about targeting those that simply download files using bit torrent based on that ip, nothing else

I could see someone falsely accused (or even claiming to be falsely accused), based solely on ip, countersuing for huge amounts of money

Robbie

Our old vids were not protected. They are NOW. But the first year they weren't. So those are constantly poppingup. And also I give my members a down loadable version of the vids that has a small bit rate and resolution. It's just good enough for them to be able to have it on their computer, but not real quality enough to re-upload...but lately they have anyway out of desperation because they can't get the high res version.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

DamianJ

No need for that, just buy a mailing list, mail people saying you have 'proof' they downloaded your midget porn and blackmail them. MILES easier. Whole new rev stream.

Yup. In cases like that there is usually STOLEN PROPERTY that the lawyers can show you have. You know, in a court and stuff.

In these cases, there is no PROOF. There is a FILE NAME. And an IP address. No actual proof the person you are suing downloaded the file. No proof the file is your content. Just a file name and an IP. Which is why the movie industry and the music industry stopped suing downloaders. However, the porn industry has a whole new angle. The embarrassment. Genius.

If they are going to the bloke's house, seizing his PC, finding the file and proving he stole it, fair enough. But they aren't. Are they?

In most decent societies, someone has to prove someone stole something. Here, I just see blackmail with no proof.

TheMaster

but as you know, a lot of the content across most forums comes from the same people, having their bots post on different forums, all the power to people who go after them, try to subpoena rapidshare, hotfile, netload, ... for their IPs

it seems what you're doing is working (better) and that's something I fully support


if you mean stealing = downloading for personal use, no the lawsuits won't make much difference, as we know from similar cases with music
if you mean stealing = downloading and then seeding it, then yes I agree and as I've said before I would support that course of action


I totally agree

Here again you'll be suing 16 year olds + only people who didn't catch on that it might be safer to download from rapidshare etc... Take out the big seeders.
I feel that sponsors do have a responsability to police their content, something you're clearly doing, but if you see that some big sponsors can't even sent DMCA claims to rapidshare for files on some of the biggest forums, then they shouldn't bitch too much.

Instead of spending money on expensive firms who charge per DMCA claim they do, some of the big sponsors should set up a joint venture, type of union thing that sponsors can join, that fights piracy 24/7, it would be much cheaper. I said this to some sponsors over the last years, they all liked the idea, but nobody has done it.

I wasn't talking about you, I was thinking about what the music industry does to people, starting million dollar suits. And from this Xbiz story it seems there are too many lawyers involved for the fines to be reasonable.

Look from all what you're saying, I'll probably support what you're doing, I'm afraid for the excesses that some people might do.

__________________

Agent 488

damien isn't even reading what is posted here.

Robbie

I don't think that they are only going after downloaders from bit torrents. But I could be wrong. If they smarten up they will go after downloaders AND uploaders

And yeah, downloaders COULD claim they are falsely accused. But guess what? It will actually cost THEM more money to do that. And it will put them in the public eye as a porn downloader. And me? Won't cost me a thin dime. The attorneys are working for a percentage. The game is now evened up finally.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

DamianJ

An IP address isn't proof Robbie. It's an IP address. Could be a grandchild, could be a neighbour, could be IP spoofing.

How many court cases have you had? I guess none. Am I wrong?

Please quote just ONE post where I am IN FAVOUR of piracy Robbie. Just one. Any one.

No I didn't I said I could steal your content. And I can. We both know that. I can do a hi-res screen grab and post it. And you cannot stop that.

Can you quote JUST ONE instance of me defending piracy Robbie? Just one. YOU are the person damaging my reputation by slandering me. And Robbie, I don't take kindly to it. I point out that most attempts to stop piracy are very stupid. That is not the same as DEFENDING PIRACY!

I suggest you search really well, cos you are accusing me of something that is damaging to my business.

It would be awful to see you banned for claiming something you have no proof of, wouldn't it?

So, where is your proof?

DamianJ

damiAn, bitch.

TheMaster

isn't that exactly what I wrote? no because there's still too much of it still available, but somebody who's been downloading sets from a certain site, might after a while buy a membership if he can no longer get his hands on the (new) content

__________________

Robbie

I said you are always playing devils advocate. I'm not the only one who's noticed it. And no...you don't have the smarts or skills to figure out how to download one of my streams in the members area. You can't and YOU know it.

Can it be done? Yeah, I'm sure. But not by you. And when it is done, guess what? I'll just plug that hole too. This ain't that hard to do.

And if you READ what I told you to read...I said that I can prove they stole the content because I can match everything to the members info. Re-read it again genius, and this time THINK about what I wrote for a second. You really have lost any measure of respect that I ever could have had for you. You strike me as someone who genuinely wants me to fail and lose my livelihood to piracy. And I don't take "kindly' to that.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

marketsmart

that would be against the law..

i am pretty sure that uploading your own content to a torrent and then trying to get money would be against the law as well...

what robbie is doing is no different than having lojack on your car and then getting the guy that stole it to pay for any damages...

it sounds like steve is trying the riaa method and it will be interesting to see if he has any success...

btw.. all site owners should be doing what robbie is doing...



robbie, are you having any success getting surfer information from foreign torrent sites?




.

TheMaster

see Robbie what you're doing is smart and targeted and I fully support that, you're going after guys who take it from you and start seeding it

__________________

DWB

Look at it the other way and think about Child Porn. Now, lets say there is some sting going on and all they have is your IP. Could be your kid, your old dad, you, your mom... who knows. But that is enough for the law to own your ass with. They fuck people up all the time for such things. If that is enough to charge someone for possession of CP, why is it not enough to charge them with theft?

Robbie

Remember when you were in the members area? You probably didn't even notice this because it's very unobtrusive. But while you watch the high res stream....YOUR username and ip address are showing up in random places at random times on the screen. And when I see that on a download site? It's easy pickings to come after that person.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

tony286

when I was young I jacked off to dirty debutantes 3 until I wore the vhs tape out then only I bought another.If it didnt wear out I would kept jacking to it. porn isnt music.

d-null

with bittorrent, everyone is a downloader and uploader, even the 16 year old kid in the parent's basement, and the guy parked in his car with his laptop half a block down the street using your wifi, etc. with bittorent you can't download without uploading, it is not an option, even if the person had zero intent to upload

and all it takes is accusing the wrong guy that will use that as an opportunity to countersue, and if you are faced with a countersuit, I don't think those attorneys are working for free for you anymore

Robbie

removeyourcontent is working on that...so I have no idea where that kind of thing stands legally. My best guess would be "no". But again, I can't speak with any knowledge on that angle.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

DWB

I don't see why there is ANY opposition here about owners of intellectual property trying to protect what they rightfully own. It's not YOURS, it belongs to someone else. Let them do with it as they wish and protect it in any way they can think of. Why all the hate?

What the fuck is wrong with some of you? Honestly.

I can only assume that those who have even a shred of negative emotion towards content protection of any kind, owns nothing or at the very least does not own their own content. You would have to be a total retard to be a content owner and neg out on other content owners who are trying to protect their investment.

TheMaster

isn't that exactly what some of these anti-piracy firms are doing?

__________________

d-null

it's not, they physically go in and seize the computers in those cases

Robbie

That's one of the reasons why we are so careful. I would never just go after every last one...too much of a chance of the scenario you're pointing out. But the ones who I have dead to rights? It's easy. And again...pornbb and other surfer forums? They identify themselves!!! It's like they went to a bank, robbed it, and videotaped themselves doing it and posted it on youtube for the world to see. lol

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

DWB

Right, but doesn't that all stem from tracking their IP address?

d-null

and just because I made these points, I should point out I am not in favor of piracy at all

I just think that legally there is big problems in using this approach, and if you accuse one innocent person and publicly blackmail them, it would be justice of them to sue you for every penny you ever had

Robbie

Yep. That's exactly how it starts. And then just like I'm doing they match up other factors and get it beyond a shadow of a doubt

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

TheMaster

look some of my friends have memberships to porn sites, although they'll also be downloading other porn for free

__________________

DWB

Exactly. They want to be THANKED for their contribution to the board.

"kneegrowh8r has been thanked 109273 times in this thread"

DamianJ

I am *really* pleased that the steps you are taking are minimizing the effects of piracy on your site. Really. I am. It's great. I applaud that.

But please, don't think that you are pirate-proof. I certainly didn't notice my username or IP when I was in your members' area. But I know it would take me 5 seconds in FCP to obfuscate that to enable me to upload it to any filesharing site I wanted. Something you would have no ability whatsoever to stop.

Why does Cory Doctorow say obscurity is more worrying than piracy? It's impossible to monetize obscurity...

You seem to think I am on the GideonsGallery side of the fence.I'm not. I rely on people having successful paysites in order to make my living. Piracy would cripple my income way before it crippled a site owners. I would be fucked. I am not in favour of piracy. I am just against wasting time, money and brainspace on something unstoppable. I do hope the difference is clear.

I just do not believe blackmailing potential customers is A Clever Move.

You coming to Amsterdam? I'd love to have a beer and explain how one can be against piracy but also against fighting piracy face to face.

Robbie

Yep, and when you dmca down the video...they complain because their HARD WORK was ruined!
It's just fucking amazing.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

d-null

yes, I agree, but how severe does a crime need to be before we accept search warrants and armed invasions of people's residences to seize physical evidence? for CP distribution it makes sense to most people, but for example if you download a photo of Carmen Electra that was scanned from the cover of this month's Maxim magazine, I don't think 99.999% of the people think that your house should be stormed by copyright enforcement police (even though Maxim magazine owns that content)

DWB

I'm sure Robbie and his attorney are not suing blindly. If you are going to go after someone like this, it only makes sense to go after slam dunks. Hence going after the guys admitting to stealing it and begging to be thanked for uploading it to the surfer boards. Right there you have a confession, his username, IP address and personal data.

Makes sense to me. Rock on Sir Robbie.

DWB

I can not agree to a home invasion either, and that's not the case here. No one is going to get their house stormed over downloading porn. But sued, go for it. It's theft, any way you want to spin it, people are stealing what you own. If you can catch them, burn them.

Can I assume you are not a content producer or own the sole rights to content? I don't think I would feel strongly about this issue if I was not a producer, but I am, so I am in favor of ANY method people have to use to cut down on piracy. I wish everyone was a vigilant as Robbie. It would put an end to this shit with a quickness.

DamianJ

In the UK a disgusting company called Davenport Lyons did exactly that. It was bloody clever, in terms of entrapment and extortion. They worked with a company called Digiprotect. They would get a content owner to sign rights over to Digiprotect to be able to seed content onto a filesharing network. Davenport Lyons would then look at the trackers and get the IPs of the people sharing the file, contact the ISPs and get their IP bill payers' info. Then send them a blackmail letter extorting money. Different companies, see, so it's all OK and not at all illegal or entrapment.

It happened to be hardcore gay porn they made the most money with.

Because people were too embarrassed and paid to avoid exposure, albeit fraudulent exposure.

Google will give you more on this.

Robbie

No you would not be able to do that. Re-READ what I said. Random places, random times. You can't "obfuscate" that. It's never in the same place at the same time. Jesus man, don't you realize I wasn't born yesterday? I've been doing this a long time. And I've been successful at everything I touch BECAUSE I'm such an anal retentive pit-bull work-a-holic who tries to think of every possible scenario in everything I do.

And no, I'm not going to Amsterdam this year. I'm really thinking about not going to anymore webmaster shows. It's been so dead the last year (because piracy is killing this business) . I'm actually thinking that I'm going to start taking Claudia-Marie and working the fan shows. Set up a booth and a special half price join page just for each show to sign up new members on the spot.

We have actually just had a record week on Claudia-Marie.Com The biggest week ever. And it's all due to the combination of viral marketing I'm doing and the expanded schedule of webcamming that CM is doing on Streamate (we have it set up on Streamate for a one click join to Claudia-Marie.Com right on Streamate).

I'm thinking that more of this LIVE fan interaction and viral marketing is the future. We just had 3 days in a row (including today) that have broke all of our sales records...and it's all type ins baby!

Anyway, I don't want to fight with you. You just have to understand that guys like me are very sensitive to the piracy issue. It's a direct hit to our very existence. So if I come at you kinda strong about it...please don't take it personally.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com