d-null

I agree with you, they need to be careful, and what you might think is a "slam dunk" might not be a slam dunk if you look at it from a position of legal reasonable doubt


When I started reading this thread, I got the impression that torrents were being "booby trapped" by recording the IP of random people that were downloading/uploading the files and targeting them, I might have gotten the wrong impression but it isn't made clear in the thread, maybe the thread starter could comment on the type of infringer that they are actually targeting

d-null

and again DWB, I am totally not on the side of the pirates, I am just discussing possible legal realities of the problem

Robbie

On another subject...
Did you guys hear about epassporte?

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

DWB

No, what?

Robbie

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

Does anybody here have anything to say about barefootsies?

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-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

TheMaster

this discussion actually made me forget about Epass for an hour

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tony286

is that like the iphone but for your passporte?

Jim_Gunn

Robbie, you are my hero. Seriously man, your posts are always among the most interesting and insightful on the forum. I have so much respect for you and the efforts you have put in and shared here on the forum. I only wish I wasn't so busy to hook up witht you and Claudia when you visited South Florida recently. Maybe another time! Has Pink Visual invited you to speak at that content protection forum they are organizing?

__________________
Jim Gunn
Filming Cinematic Porn
Skype JimGunnProductions

Robbie

I don't know...but I do like barefootsies.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

Of course not. As with most forums...the panels will be full of "experts" saying nothing. I have very rarely seen any seminar/panel at a forum have any real useful information that could actually affect anything. I do wish them luck however and hopefully there will be others with some good solid ideas that work to share with everyone. I hope so...my affiliate work is a fucking joke these days because I simply can't sell memberships to paysites that are already widely available for free.

I HOPE they have Eric Green there. RemoveYourContent has been in the fight since the first round.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Jim_Gunn

I agree, RYC's efforts and those of people like you give a lot of the smaller players hope. Not just on the content protection front, but also in the way you do your marketing and running your paysite. Anyone that can take one big titty whore and build a successful and growing enterprise at this stage of the game deserves to be lauded. I have been paying close attention to your posts about content protection and paysite management for years now and chatting with you in person at the shows is always a pleasure as well as eye opening.

__________________
Jim Gunn
Filming Cinematic Porn
Skype JimGunnProductions

Robbie

All you need is a big tit prostitute with a fat round ass and then a fucking idiot like me who is too dumb to realize it's almost impossible to do this...and BOOM! Success!

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Far-L

I was just kidding. The point of my sarcasm though was aimed at the trolls and the trills that babble on about what everyone "should" do. Most just want someone else to pay to solve the problem for them and then take credit for it like they had some sort of stake in the cure because they complained on a board about it.

I am sick of that sort of complacency, that's all, and I don't feel like helping out anyone that is not going to make a small effort to help themselves. Call me a callous ol' codger.

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dyna mo

i see. can i add cantankerous too?

BV

Robbie,

Good fucking work dude! You get an A+ for following through with a pretty simple and clever plan!

tony286

ahh barefootsies the Dr Scholls of porn.

Zyber

Thumbs up for Steve and Robbie! Men of action..

RogerV

dont waste your time responding to the idiots, mob, followers and sheep

they are all haters thats why just 5% here are leaders in the industry

Paul Markham

Are these proof?
All posted on another board.

Certainly don't sound anti piracy to me.

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alias

Forcing users to pay for shitty content = win.

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Alky

Step 1) Fuck customers on x-sells
Step 2) Fuck ex-customers by suing/extorting them
Step 3) Profit!!

Like I said earlier in this thread... the MOVIE INDUSTRY is having a tough time with lots of ISP's getting customer info. Good luck porn industry.

Paul Markham

1) Parents are responsible for their children's actions
2) Agreed we all know of the shady characters who will use a DMCA law to make money from pirated content.

Yes I can see the headlines now. "A site makes money from pirated content!!!"

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Alky

gimme a break... sure they are to an extent but come on get a fucking grip.

i think you said you lost your virginity at like age 12 or something???? your parents must have really been terrible.

Nathan

Paul, you seemed more intelligent in the past than this.. try again.

As others have said, if you need to sue people to make money with your content, there is a flaw somewhere way before the fact that piracy is a problem.

And you obviously do not understand DMCA and/or the point of it...

My actual question was still not answered by Steve though... will he sue people that DOWNLOAD the content from torrents or that UPLOAD it...

MAYOR difference in my opinion.. I have no problem when people get sued because they upload content for others to get it for free although they have no rights to do so...

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Davy

It's the new upcoming business model.

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---
ICQ 14-76-98 <-- I don't use this at all

SteveLightspeed

Nathan, the answer to your question is in the lawsuit filing:

"This action has been filed by Plaintiff to combat the willful and intentional infringement of its copyrighted creative works and includes a civil claim for copyright infringement. Defendants, ... illegally reproduced and distributed Plaintiff’s copyrighted creative works via computer networks and upon information and belief continue to do the same."

Steve Lightspeed

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Abra-cadabra!

Nathan

Ok, not sure why you not just say "uploaded" to answer my q, but I am going to GUESS this is what that means, although its a very complicated definition regarding torrents.

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Paul Markham

People have been using flaws and gaps in the law for centuries to make money. Is it illegal? No. It is immoral? Well that never stopped anyone before.

Nathan I've been using DMCAs to get my content off piracy sites for over 18 years. You use it as a way to profit from piracy. It was meant to stop hosts being prosecuted for what their clients uploaded. Not for people with servers to avoid buying content to make a profit. The problem is the DOJ didn't change the 2257 law so they could come after people like you. But I guess you will use that loop hole for as long as it exists.

Talking to real customers you soon learn they know the harm piracy has done to this industry and will not complain at measures to stop it.

What I would like to hear from all the knockers is alternative ways of stopping piracy of porn. So far I've heard nothing except lock down content. And that's closing the door after the horse has bolted.

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Paul Markham

Nathan so what if he goes after uploaders or downloaders? They are both in the wrong and breaking the law. The people who view pirated content fund piracy sites as much as those who upload.

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Nathan

Many people do not realize this and I do not feel they have to be sued, it does not fix the problem suing the people that download... Suing uploaders helps since there are far less of those...

Suing downloaders is just a way to make money with content you can not figure out how to make money with otherwise...

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DWB

Lets say Steve Lightspeed stole your car, then brought it to my house and gave it to me. Scratch that... he parks it at a local parking garage at the local mall where I then go and take your car. I'm now driving around town with your car, which I didn't technically steal directly from you, but it is now in my possession and I am using it. I know it's stolen but I don't care because you probably can't catch me.

1) I would still be legally held responsible and charged at least with receiving stolen property.

2) You would want to see me prosecuted right along with Steve, and I should be.

So the question becomes, how much are these videos actually worth? As someone who owns such a huge library of content, I'm sure you have a general idea how much each scene is worth over the course of time. It's a lot. In fact, over the course of time, just one scene will probably generate more money than what many cars are worth. So why is it OK to download them with no consequence if it's not OK for me to end up with your car after Steve stole it from you?

Everyone downloading the videos know they are stolen. They are equally as guilty as the uploader.

DWB

Sure they do. Since when did people stop knowing the difference between right and wrong?

You don't like it when people call you a thief, yet you will spit on those who try to protect their content. Classy.

DWB

You mean the same MOVIE INDUSTRY who used to look to the porn industry to see what we were doing to deliver our media and drive technology?

The porn industry stopped innovating and got lazy. It's time to get back up on the horse and do what we have always done, innovate. The haters are gonna hate, those who do not understand, will not understand, and those who follow, will follow. Not a difficult concept... but the concept is DO SOMETHING, MAKE A STEP... even if that step is not perfect, just move forward and TRY something new. That's how things happen.

Nathan

Sorry, but I do not agree that this is the same thing...

I will try to find a more comparable scenario... its not easy though:
Steve buys a DVD of my videos in a store, he then duplicates this DVD a billion times and puts them all in a big truck on the side of the road, with a sign on it saying "take one free".
You now come by and take a DVD and walk on.

1) In real life, you would most likely not be sued, I would have to check this a bit with my lawyers though to be honest but I think copyright law wise there is no way to sue you because you took the DVD.
2) I would not want to see you prosecuted, I would only want to see Steve prosecuted for doing this in the first place.

An example of why I said before this seems dangerous..

Imagine I now, because I actually managed to sue you and you had to pay me $500, make a billion copies of my DVDs, put them in a truck on the side of the road, put the sign up myself, and make a photo of everyone taking a DVD. I then sue them all a month later based on the photo because they took the DVD without paying...

And this would be much easier to do online than offline...

This is the only reason I find suing those people dangerous. I in general understand why people would like suing downloaders, I just think it opens up a possible can of worms...

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Nathan

DWB, stop ripping things out of context, I said often enough that I support suing the uploaders... suing downloaders has NOTHING to do with protecting the content! It does not PROTECT the content at all, it just makes money with the people that downloaded it.

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JFK

looking forward to it

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DWB

Nor sure that analogy is correct either because no one is putting up a sign saying to take them for free.

I'm sure we can agree on this, torrent users are not people who just got on the internet for the first time. Torrent users seem to be slightly more advanced users. Do you agree?

Assuming you have said yes, then we have to also assume that a user that is a little more advanced will know, without question, that he is downloading videos, music, software, movies... all illegally. He knows these are for sale and that he is skirting the sale and getting them for free. This is what makes him guilty, because he knows what he is doing.

Now, lets say torrents were for total beginners on the internet. For people who have no idea what the internet is about. They have no idea these materials are for sale somewhere else. THEN I would agree with you, it would be wrong to sue them.

Also, I don't believe that anyone going after both uploaders and downloaders are putting a basket of free porn online to trick them into downloading so they can sue. Someone will abuse this down the road I'm sure, but I don't believe this is the intention with Lightspeed and Grooby. If they can make a few bucks from this, good for them. This is a more honest approach that what your company has done to profit. They at least own the content they may profit from. If they can push torrent users further underground and scare off some people from downloading, that is a win. The point is, it has to start somewhere. Your company has literally raped this industry bareback over the past few years, and while you were not part of them then, you are now, and claim to be making changes. Well, this too is a change. Lets see where the cards fall with it, but I wouldn't say either Lightspeed or Grooby NEED to do this to make a profit on their content. Saying they do, is a slap in their face.

I agree to disagree with you on this one. For starters, you can bet your ass the user who is sued is not going to steal porn again. That is a win right out of the gate.

If they sue enough of them and more companies start to do this as well, less and less will download porn from the torrents. I hope it makes the news. That helps their case as that very news will let them know they are breaking the law if by some freak chance they don't know already. PIRACY WILL NEVER STOP so don't think I'm saying that. It won't. Not until some laws are changed. But they can cut it down and make a small dent, which is a start. It's better than sitting on your ass and letting guys rob you blind.

Zyber

You are just saying all this to protect your massive tube-traffic, right? The general majority who has no problem anymore to receive stolen content, well-knowing they are watching stolen videos.

I think there is morally nothing wrong with pulling the downloaders to court. Make them pay for the video they watched. They decided to fuck content owners, content owners decide to fuck them back. That's fair game. No innocent are hurt. Eye for an eye. Maybe it will be a wake-up call for some. That stealing online is the same as doing it offline.

As has been said so many times before: Adapt or Die.
Now the new business model has changed to fish cash from the endless pond of thieves.
Pull up the cash, one by one...

Interestingly though, it was Nathan, who came up with the idea to sue ex-members.
What a creative mindset. I don't think that was what Steve or Robbie had in mind, though.
Unless, of course, it was the ex-member who distributed the content.

Nathan

Never said Steve has the intention to rip people off, I said that people WILL exploit this if it works.
And sure, some people might realize that it might be stolen, but it does not HAVE to be, thats the point here! There are people that upload videos to torrents to ADVERTISE their sites too! This actually does happen a lot.

And sorry, but you know almost nothing about my company, you know only what you read and what others like to claim without any inside knowledge. So telling me the stuff you said is simply an uninformed claim and not true.

BTW, I know Lightspeed's profit numbers as I do of many many other companies in adult, since we have looked at a ton of them for possible acquisitions ;) And no, obviously he does not need this to make any money, not saying he does and never intended to mean anything like it.

Regarding the 2nd part, sorry, but there are millions and millions of people that go to these sites, you are never going to sue even 2% of them, you are playing Don Quijote. Suing the people that UPLOAD is a whole different thing, there are WAY WAY less of those!

Also this has nothing much to do with law, the laws you mean, like DMCA, can not change, but until you fully understand DMCA which only very few people in this industry do, you will not understand that fact either.

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BuggyG

Everytime I read one of your posts.. I get to your sig and I forget what I read. Making me have to re-read it again. Stop distracting me!

No seriously don't... I luv that sig of yours

Nathan

Zyber,

what I am saying is very easy... suing a downloader does virtually nothing against piracy. The only benefit is making money from them. Suing an UPLOADER though, thats a whole different thing! I can totally understand that.

__________________
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- Charlie Munger

Zyber

Exactly. It makes money. A positive ROI. Duplicate this concept 10-fold.

Even though it might not stop piracy, then this is a way to make money. I would sue downloaders till I turn blue in the face, and laugh all the way to the bank.

Currently I'm looking into what options I have and setting up a plan.

Maybe hire 'No Cure, No Pay' lawyers in as many states and countries as possible. Put the lawsuits and settlements into system. Gain experience and solid routines.

If done right this can be a great revenue stream. As there are millions and millions of violators there are endless possibilities. The sky is the limit.

When/if the DMCA laws are improved then tubes and hosts can also become targets. While we wait for that miracle to happen we can just use these piracy hubs as sources to find copyright infringing end-users.

Let the end-users who steal bleed.

Screaming

search for "jordan capri sex tape"
check out the 1st result.

sue THOSE bastards

__________________

Zyber

A message to the downloaders..

theking

How many people have your attorney's sent a letter to that chose not to fight in court and chose not to pay...but simply chose to not appear in court and lose by default...and just say fuck it...try to collect the judgement? They then will have minimal exposure.

I have sued more than one person in small claims court that did not appear and lost by default...and have yet to collect a dime from the judgement against them...except for one person...who voluntarily paid the judgement.

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Dirty Dane

Yeah,why don't you try upload 1 FHG with 15 photos or 1 minute movie clip on Pirate Bay. With your website or affiliate code attached. Lets see for how long the torrent stays.

Dirty Dane

If suing the uploader is ok, then why not expand it up another level in the hierarchy?
Let say the owner of that "road" is charging the bypassers and credit the ones who use the road to give out copied DVDs. How he finance the road does not matter, one way of another he needs to finance it, and what he need (and encourage) is motivation for using his road.
Shouldn't the owner of the road also be stopped, if he motivates and knows what is going on, but ignore it or simply hide behind a law that protect his lack of morality? For his own gain?

The point is that eveyone know what is going on, including the downloaders. They are not the biggest part of the problem but still a problem. Their demands increase along with the creation of it, and by doing so, they need to learn to say no. Age, mentality or simply-gives-a-fuck, they all have in common they need to learn.

The uploader is subject to bigger punishment because he creates more damage. However he is not that easy to get to and usual it should be a job for law enforcement because of the size of damage he make. It is criminal. But law enforcements do not have enough time or ressources, they have to make priorities.

The host is the biggest problem if he allow it to happen. And that is the reality in many cases. He opened the can of worms, the destruction of internet and rights - not the little guy who try to stop it and fighting for his own work

Nathan

Because suing the maker of the road is rediculous, why not sue the people that produced the materials needed to build the road? Or the ones that sold the land for the road? Or sue the truck-manufacturer why you are at it...

There is only one reason why the downloader is sued, to make money. Its not to fight against piracy, that's just ridiculous to claim. You can not sue the website unless it ENCOURAGES uploading infringing content (see the recent lawsuits)... You can in theory sue the tracker provider I guess, but thats hard too I think, you can obviously sue the uploader, which is the only thing that in the end does anything against copyright infringement.

I disagree with your host comment, that's like suing the ISP of the user. Obviously never going to work either.

But we are not discussing this, we are discussing downloader / uploader... the rest is something that we should never start discussing since it will just end up in a big useless fight that helps noone and just pisses you off...

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Paul Markham

In plain English. = Suing downloaders could mean you suing people who download from my Tubes and that might fuck my business model of fucking the rest of you.

Suing downloaders and uploaders is legal. As legal as it is to set up a site that relies on "Uploaders" and downloaders of pirated material while hiding behind a 2257 law to make money.

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