Evil Obamacare starts tomorrow - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Probono · 09-22-2010, 08:31 AM

One more note: I live in a country with first world medical care and an office visit costs $7. The difference, no medical malpractice insurance and little liability. If you want health insurance here it is a fraction of US rates.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Probono

One more note: I live in a country with first world medical care and an office visit costs $7. The difference, no medical malpractice insurance and little liability. If you want health insurance here it is a fraction of US rates.

That's the way it was here in this country when I was growing up.

bronco67 · 09-22-2010, 08:40 AM

I'm pretty close to a long-time doctor, and he seems to think this new plan will almost eliminate good doctors -- as there'll be no more capitalistic incentive for it. Handing over something so important to the government is a bad move. Since when did government make anything more efficient? It'll just open new avenues for politicians to run corrupt programs and skim taxpayer dollars.

Also, no one is entitled to health care from the government. I have health insurance, and while I don't use it often, at least I know I won't be slapped with a $50,000 bill if something bad happens to me. But I pay for my own, and don't expect any help from the government.

baddog · 09-22-2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

the changes may sound great, but guess who will pay for it?

Maybe he can explain why my group rates automatically increase as a result of this, even though they are not allowed to tell us that.

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 09:01 AM

If this new plan is so great for the insurance companies, and it is such a give-away, then why are the insurance companies spending hundreds of millions of dollars to repeal it?

GregE · 09-22-2010, 09:05 AM

Get rid of the mandate and it's all good.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

If this new plan is so great for the insurance companies, and it is such a give-away, then why are the insurance companies spending hundreds of millions of dollars to repeal it?

That's an easy one Vinnie.

In pro wrestling we call it the "swerve". It's an old con trick. They are manipulating the public.

What's the best way to get support behind it? Make it appear to SCREW the insurance companies.

But the reality is...they are now going to get hundreds of millions of new accounts. And they are going to make out like bandits.

I think that anybody who looks at it without politics involved can see a few truths:

The "health care bill" did NOT address the cost of HEALTH CARE. We still are going to pay more than any other country on Earth for medical procedures and prescription medication. Not one thing was done to even QUESTION that.

Insurance companies are going to make a shit ton of money off of this. There is no way around that fact. We are being forced to buy insurance.

IF the government was going to "take over" health care (which they aren't...they are just forcing everyone to buy insurance), then they should simply have the balls to do it like other countries do and have health care paid for by our tax dollars. The so-called "single pay" thing. (stupid name for it)

But the problem with "single payer" is that it STILL didnt' stop medical costs and prescription drug prices in our country from being higher than any other place in the freakin' world. That is why other countries can do it and we can't. The govt. is holding hands with insurance companies and the medical industry to keep our prices high...and they ALL get paid off to do it. Both Republicans and Democrats. That's why the first thing that was done was a backroom deal with pharmaceutical and insurance companies right off the bat to ENSURE that "single pay" wouldn't happen because they don't want the big gravy train to end.

This has nothing to do with "liberal" or "conservative" Those are just words to keep the masses arguing over the wrong thing..."Misdirection" it's called in magic a "Swerve" in con games and pro wrestling... meanwhile politicians (dems and republicans), pharmaceutical companies, and insurance companies rake in the money.

Vendzilla · 09-22-2010, 09:31 AM

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

That's an easy one Vinnie.

In pro wrestling we call it the "swerve". It's an old con trick. They are manipulating the public.

What's the best way to get support behind it? Make it appear to SCREW the insurance companies.

But the reality is...they are now going to get hundreds of millions of new accounts. And they are going to make out like bandits.

I think that anybody who looks at it without politics involved can see a few truths:

The "health care bill" did NOT address the cost of HEALTH CARE. We still are going to pay more than any other country on Earth for medical procedures and prescription medication. Not one thing was done to even QUESTION that.

Insurance companies are going to make a shit ton of money off of this. There is no way around that fact. We are being forced to buy insurance.

IF the government was going to "take over" health care (which they aren't...they are just forcing everyone to buy insurance), then they should simply have the balls to do it like other countries do and have health care paid for by our tax dollars. The so-called "single pay" thing. (stupid name for it)

But the problem with "single payer" is that it STILL didnt' stop medical costs and prescription drug prices in our country from being higher than any other place in the freakin' world. That is why other countries can do it and we can't. The govt. is holding hands with insurance companies and the medical industry to keep our prices high...and they ALL get paid off to do it. Both Republicans and Democrats. That's why the first thing that was done was a backroom deal with pharmaceutical and insurance companies right off the bat to ENSURE that "single pay" wouldn't happen because they don't want the big gravy train to end.

This has nothing to do with "liberal" or "conservative" Those are just words to keep the masses arguing over the wrong thing..."Misdirection" it's called in magic a "Swerve" in con games and pro wrestling... meanwhile politicians (dems and republicans), pharmaceutical companies, and insurance companies rake in the money.

This plan may give the insurance companies new customers, but it still restricts their behavior in ways they are not happy with. The insurance companies do not want ANY regulations, and therefore they are prepared to spend BILLION$ to maintain as much of the status quo as they can. It is not misdirection.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

This plan may give the insurance companies new customers, but it still restricts their behavior in ways they are not happy with. The insurance companies do not want ANY regulations, and therefore they are prepared to spend BILLION$ to maintain as much of the status quo as they can. It is not misdirection.

It is 100% misdirection VinMan.

Think about it...How many times have we read or been told on the news that insurance companies are spending so much money running ads against it?

Guess what? I've never seen even ONE ad from an insurance company against the Health Care Bill. Not one.

And on all the news talk shows on CNN...I've see the Health Care bill debated by politicians. But not ONE Insurance Company guy. Not one.

This is total misdirection bro. And even though you may not want to think you can be fooled just because you're an intelligent person...guess what? You are being conned and led by the nose.

If I'm wrong...then WHY didn't the full Democratic White House, Senate, and House simply go with single pay?

Because they CAN'T. All of them are under the thumb of insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies.

This is about business. Don't ever think that any politician gives a damn about any of us. It's about money.

You're ignoring the fact that the insurance companies are now going to have hundreds of millions of new paying customers. Oh, you're 18 years old...healthy as a horse and over the next 40 years you didn't end up going to the doctor but a couple of times when you had the flu?
Well that describes how the vast majority of guys lives play out.

But now...you are gonna pay the insurance company. Oh yeah. And you're STILL gonna end up getting taxed to the ground on top of that.

It's a numbers and money game. Period.

And I wonder how this whole thing is gonna play out when the forced mandate (so anti-American) comes into play...and unemployment is running high with people struggling just to keep their homes.

The govt. needs to step the fuck up and stop the medical industry from ripping us off and shut the insurance companies down and go "single pay" if they really want to do something.

MrBottomTooth · 09-22-2010, 09:44 AM

I'm in Canada and I am totally happy with our health care system. Has worked great for me and for my family members that have had life-threatening ailments.

But the recent estimate is that in Ontario, over 40 cents of every tax dollar goes directly to healthcare in our province. (as well as most other provinces)

Something to think about. Universal health care is great, but it is not cheap.

Tom_PM · 09-22-2010, 09:51 AM

Everyone is paying for it. Just like everyone pays for stealth bombers.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I'm in Canada and I am totally happy with our health care system. Has worked great for me and for my family members that have had life-threatening ailments.

But the recent estimate is that in Ontario, over 40 cents of every tax dollar goes directly to healthcare in our province. (as well as most other provinces)

Something to think about. Universal health care is great, but it is not cheap.

I'm thinking...maybe, just maybe we could pull our troops out of Japan and Germany (the war has been over for 65 years)

Maybe pull out of Korea (war has been over for over 50 years)

Pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

And pull troops out of the other 80 + countries that we are occupying.

My guess is we could then pay for everybody to go to the doctor AND cut our taxes too.

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

It is 100% misdirection VinMan.

Think about it...How many times have we read or been told on the news that insurance companies are spending so much money running ads against it?

Guess what? I've never seen even ONE ad from an insurance company against the Health Care Bill. Not one.

And on all the news talk shows on CNN...I've see the Health Care bill debated by politicians. But not ONE Insurance Company guy. Not one.

This is total misdirection bro. And even though you may not want to think you can be fooled just because you're an intelligent person...guess what? You are being conned and led by the nose.

If I'm wrong...then WHY didn't the full Democratic White House, Senate, and House simply go with single pay?

Because they CAN'T. All of them are under the thumb of insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies.

This is about business. Don't ever think that any politician gives a damn about any of us. It's about money.

You're ignoring the fact that the insurance companies are now going to have hundreds of millions of new paying customers. Oh, you're 18 years old...healthy as a horse and over the next 40 years you didn't end up going to the doctor but a couple of times when you had the flu?
Well that describes how the vast majority of guys lives play out.

But now...you are gonna pay the insurance company. Oh yeah. And you're STILL gonna end up getting taxed to the ground on top of that.

It's a numbers and money game. Period.

And I wonder how this whole thing is gonna play out when the forced mandate (so anti-American) comes into play...and unemployment is running high with people struggling just to keep their homes.

The govt. needs to step the fuck up and stop the medical industry from ripping us off and shut the insurance companies down and go "single pay" if they really want to do something.

I agree with you that it is all about money and corruption, but the insurance lobby HAS been throwing money to push back and dilute this bill. They bused people in for the "angry town hall meetings" right off the bat!

I agree that both sides of the aisle suck it, but Obama's plan is still better than NO PLAN, which is what the other side has offered, and continues to offer.

Also your statement that 18 year olds will now have to pay for insurance is not true. Under the new system kids are covered under their parent's policy until they are 26.

As far as having to pay for insurance not being constitutional - that's just crap. If you drive you need insurance - is that unconstitutional too?

The righties bitch that the poor do not pay for insurance, and they are why rates are so high. Now that mandatory insurance is on the table, the righties are complaining that it is not constitutional.

It is so easy to complain, but it is much harder to actually accomplish something, or make changes.

If the Republicans get back in, what will change? What is the GOP's big plan, that is so great that Obama needs to be voted out?

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

I agree with you that it is all about money and corruption, but the insurance lobby HAS been throwing money to push back and dilute this bill. They bused people in for the "angry town hall meetings" right off the bat!

Also your statement that 18 year olds will now have to pay for insurance is not true. Under the new system kids are covered under their parent's policy until they are 26.

As far as having to pay for insurance not being constitutional - that's just crap. If you drive you need insurance - is that unconstitutional too?

1. Sending people to the town meetings was classic misdirection. I guess it takes one to see one because I can see it plain as day that they are doing nothing more than a pro wrestling style con.

2. So now parents are FORCED to pay insurance for their ADULT kids? Wow.

3. The insurance to drive is yet another case of the govt. holding hands with insurance companies...but put that aside for a second. You hit the nail on the head: IF you drive you have to buy insurance. And you can CHOOSE how much you want. Got a new car? Full coverage. Got an old clunker? State minimum.
Or maybe you don't have a car? You're one of millions of people who live in NYC and you take the subway. You don't even WANT a car in that city.

You don't have to drive. But this new law requires every breathing human being to BUY insurance.

Dude...trust me...no politicians are on your "side". It's nothing but money and greed.

maxxtro · 09-22-2010, 10:08 AM

Obama's kryptonite cuts to the very heart of the administration's failings at a presidential economic town hall:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...-the-depressed

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

1. Sending people to the town meetings was classic misdirection. I guess it takes one to see one because I can see it plain as day that they are doing nothing more than a pro wrestling style con.

2. So now parents are FORCED to pay insurance for their ADULT kids? Wow.

3. The insurance to drive is yet another case of the govt. holding hands with insurance companies...but put that aside for a second. You hit the nail on the head: IF you drive you have to buy insurance. And you can CHOOSE how much you want. Got a new car? Full coverage. Got an old clunker? State minimum.
Or maybe you don't have a car? You're one of millions of people who live in NYC and you take the subway. You don't even WANT a car in that city.

You don't have to drive. But this new law requires every breathing human being to BUY insurance.

Dude...trust me...no politicians are on your "side". It's nothing but money and greed.

Again, I agree, cynically, that most politicians are corrupt, but again, I disagree with you on some of this. I would imagine most parents would be happy to have their kids covered until they are 26, and as far as the analogy that people CHOOSE whether or not to drive or not... well, as long as you CHOOSE to stay alive, then you are a liability. If you do not cover yourself, then you are burdening the system. If I have a heart attack this afternoon, and I do not have insurance, and the hospital charges me $100K in medical expenses, and I don't pay the bill, then who does?

I think the whole reliance on insurance companies is bullshit, but if that's the only way that healthcare works at the moment, then how do you defend the idea that some people need to pay, and others don't?

As the economy continues to falter, and insurance rates continue to rise, it will only be a matter of time before half the country pays into the system, to cover the other half!

On the flipside, if EVERYONE has to pay into the system, rates SHOULD at least stabilize, and if they don't, then EVERYONE is effected, and the system will be forced to morph into something EVERYONE can be happier with.

Also, as more people are now renting, who gives a shit if you don't pay your hospital or medical bills? What does it matter? It is obviously cheaper to NOT have to pay, so without a mandate, what is the incentive?

Honez · 09-22-2010, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

It amazes me how much things have changed in my lifetime.

Up until about 20 years ago, not very many people even had "health insurance" And if you did it was to cover you in case you got in a car wreck or needed a very, very expensive surgery (Like if you had a heart attack and needed a bypass surgery)

I always went to the doctor and...wait, you're not gonna believe this...PAID him with MONEY.
You know, the way everybody always did.

But these days? People have been conditioned to think that they CAN'T go to the freakin' doctor unless they have "insurance".

Oh...only a govt. law will allow you to go to the doctor of your choice? WTF?!?!?

Last I checked, I can pick up the phone...call any doctor in town, drive over and be seen and simply PAY him when I leave.

That's the power the govt. and insurance companies now have over people. Folks honestly believe that their very actions are controlled by insurance companies.

The REAL "healthcare" issue that has not been addressed is of course the FACT that we pay more for our healthcare in this country than ANY other nation.

Claudia had an appendectomy 2 years ago. Cost? TWELVE THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! WTF!?!?!?!?!?

We pay 10 x more for every procedure and every prescription medication while the insurance companies hold hands with the govt. to make damn sure we do.

No Republican or Democrat is even trying to change that. They are all getting too much money from the pharmaceutical and medical lobbyists.

"Health Care" shouldn't be about forcing every man, woman, and child to now pay for insurance (I still can't believe the atrocity of that...can you imagine if you owned a business that it became LAW that everyone had to buy your product?)...it should be about stopping the price gouging on Americans so we don't NEED insurance just to go to the fucking doctor.

I am still one of those that pays cash for Dr's visits and even small surgeries. I have found out one thing. Most Drs hate insurance companies as much as we do and when you mention that you are a self pay patient, most will give a hefty discount. Case in point when I shattered my foot and had to have surgery, I negotiated with the Dr and the surgery center. Everything, including 3 months of follow up care with the Podiatrist, cost me $2100. That was less than the surgical suite alone would have cost had I have turned it in on insurance.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

I would imagine most parents would be happy to have their kids covered until they are 26

Dude...nothing has EVER stopped parents from keeping their grown kids on insurance.

I never had insurance as a child for instance. Going to the doctor didn't cost that much.

But when I turned 18 and went to college...my grandparents sent me to their insurance company and got me a policy. It wasn't that big a deal. It was in MY name. And they paid the bill.

Nothing has EVER stopped a parent from doing that EVER. But now...they will be FORCED to. Even if they can't afford it.

It's called "Freedom Of Choice"

And YOU are the one who brought up the car insurance analogy. Not me.

And I am 100% correct on that one. If I decide tomorrow to sell my cars and take a bus or taxi wherever I go, I won't pay another penny for car insurance.

But forcing people to buy insurance gives nobody any choice at all. That's what I'm saying is unconstitutional and just plain out Anti-American. And that is all about making insurance companies a shitload of more money.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honez

I am still one of those that pays cash for Dr's visits and even small surgeries. I have found out one thing. Most Drs hate insurance companies as much as we do and when you mention that you are a self pay patient, most will give a hefty discount. Case in point when I shattered my foot and had to have surgery, I negotiated with the Dr and the surgery center. Everything, including 3 months of follow up care with the Podiatrist, cost me $2100. That was less than the surgical suite alone would have cost had I have turned it in on insurance.

Yep, when I had my car wreck in 2002 and my neck was broken I had almost half a million dollars in hospital bills. When they found out I had no insurance though...they told me the REAL cost was only around $20,000.00

They have deals set up with insurance companies to milk us big time on premiums. And the govt. is paid off to keep the gravy train rolling.

Tom_PM · 09-22-2010, 10:33 AM

Will you agree Robbie that when a person who has paid insurance for 10 years has a $50,000 medical emergency that his insurance company denies based on him filling out his form wrong 10 years ago, that something is wrong?
I mean where is the line?

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Will you agree Robbie that when a person who has paid insurance for 10 years has a $50,000 medical emergency that his insurance company denies based on him filling out his form wrong 10 years ago, that something is wrong?
I mean where is the line?

Absolutely wrong of them. And the govt. definitely should have addressed that.

But FIRST they should address WHY any medical procedure that costs 50 grand in the U.S. only costs 10 grand in every other country in the world. Then you wouldn't need insurance anyway. You could just pay it yourself. Even if you had to do payment plans (like I did with my car wreck in 02)

EDIT: You see how they've conditioned us? We just accept the high prices and then think we are helpless without insurance.

Tom_PM · 09-22-2010, 10:40 AM

I think you have to worry about the tail wagging the dog. If it was Mom and Pop paying for it, it would NOT cost so much money because such increases would simply lead to nobody ever using it due to lack of money to pay for it. In other words, high prices exist because of insurance. Why else do I think so? Because advocates for repeal cite the "fact" that premiums are based on the "rising cost of health care". Chicken and egg.

Joshua G · 09-22-2010, 10:42 AM

lots of words traded here. But we all know the truth facing us...health care reform will not change jack shit.
It will actually make things worse when the people who are mandated to pay into the gouging insurers choose instead to pay penalties to the government. They will stay uninsured, will not get health care, but will pay money to the government for choosing not to buy unaffordable coverage.
If single payer is not going to happen, i would rather go with republican plan to just do nothing at all. Because democrats have no concern about the costs of the things they mandate.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

I think you have to worry about the tail wagging the dog. If it was Mom and Pop paying for it, it would NOT cost so much money because such increases would simply lead to nobody ever using it due to lack of money to pay for it. In other words, high prices exist because of insurance. Why else do I think so? Because advocates for repeal cite the "fact" that premiums are based on the "rising cost of health care". Chicken and egg.

I can tell you this much...after visiting Tijuana a couple of weeks ago. I can now see why it is such a HUGE medical tourism spot.

The place was wall to wall surgeons, doctors, and pharmacies. The prices were incredible. Americans are swarming there to get things done.

I definitely would make that my destination for any kind of surgery that wasn't an emergency and gave me time to get there.

And the pharmacies? You should see the prices! Same exact stuff made by the same exact companies. Plus you can buy Cialis, Viagra, and testosterone and steroids right over the counter. Nice having a little freedom and not getting price gouged.

The Demon · 09-22-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

insurance companies need to be stopped. they choose who lives and who dies (more or less). These companies only care about profit, they don't care how many people die because they cut off their insurance when things got too costly.

Sure, but government isn't the answer. In the words of the moron BFT3K, only the sheeple believe the government is the answer against the big bad insurance companies.

directfiesta · 09-22-2010, 10:47 AM

Popcorn is ready ....
Just waiting for the implosion ...

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Sure, but government isn't the answer. In the words of the moron BFT3K, only the sheeple believe the government is the answer against the big bad insurance companies.

Well so much for intelligent discussion. Now the name calling high school bullshit has started. Thanks "The Demon". Too bad you never learned to intelligently debate people.

The Demon · 09-22-2010, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Well so much for intelligent discussion. Now the name calling high school bullshit has started. Thanks "The Demon". Too bad you never learned to intelligently debate people.

Too bad you never learned to follow a discussion or enhance those poor reading comprehension skills, because if you had, you would see that there is no name calling, I'm just repeating what someone else said. And the thing about arguing with morons is, it's impossible to "intellectually" debate them. Good show though Robbie, thanks.

Edit: Here Robbie, let me help you out so you don't hurt yourself. I imagine this is the last we'll hear from you in this thread.

Quote:

Meanwhile the sheeple believe the GOVERNMENT is the evil player here! WTF?!

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 11:04 AM

As long as SOME people have insurance and SOME people do not, this argument will continue. If you want to change the status quo, there are two quick answers...

1) EVERYONE has insurance.

2) NOBODY has insurance.

Personally I like the second option. That would make it so that the prices for medicine and medical procedures would have to drop. It would not be realistic for regular, uninsured people, to pay the insane rates that are currently in place, if they were not insured.

Tom_PM · 09-22-2010, 11:05 AM

Americans who have the "best health care in the world" choosing Mexico. Now thats something you see on the news, but you never hear a politician addressing.

The only thing they do is cry about how we'll be socialists and evil. It's kinda disconnected isn't it? I think people are just simply sick of the bullshit around this issue.

The Demon · 09-22-2010, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

Americans who have the "best health care in the world" choosing Mexico. Now thats something you see on the news, but you never hear a politician addressing.

The only thing they do is cry about how we'll be socialists and evil. It's kinda disconnected isn't it? I think people are just simply sick of the bullshit around this issue.

It's funny how you don't mention those in other countries that come to America for our healthcare.

Tom_PM · 09-22-2010, 11:11 AM

And right on cue, several insurance companies announced their plan to STOP selling child-only policies starting Thursday. Why? Because they can no longer deny coverage for pre-existing conditions or kick kids off because of clerical errors = less profits = children suffer = they're ok with that.

Somehow I always doubted that an insurance company gave a shit about health.

Tom_PM · 09-22-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

It's funny how you don't mention those in other countries that come to America for our healthcare.

It's funny how not 1 single poor foreign person can afford to come here for the specialty care that the foreign dignitaries and rich people come here for as you mention

You shine so brightly every day.

The Demon · 09-22-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

It's funny how not 1 single poor foreign person can afford to come here for the specialty care that the foreign dignitaries and rich people come here for as you mention

You shine so brightly every day.

Wonderful strawman argument. I state facts, you shift the scope of the argument right on queue.

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

It's funny how you don't mention those in other countries that come to America for our healthcare.

Wake up Foxdroid, that phenomenon is reversing itself further every day!

I now know of people who are going to Mexico, Canada, Costa Rica, and even the Dominican Republic for medical procedures they cannot afford here in the US.

Even your God, Rupert Merdoch, is from a country with universal healthcare (Australia).

You really are a pathetic troll.

The Demon · 09-22-2010, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Wake up Foxdroid, that phenomenon is reversing itself further every day!

Wake up msnbcdroid, there's no evidence of your assertion.

Quote:

I now know of people who are going to Mexico, Canada, Costa Rica, and even the Dominican Republic for medical procedures they cannot afford here in the US.

Omg, AWESOME! I know people in other countries coming here! What's your point? What's that? You don't have one as usual, just doing the trolling thing? Gotcha

Quote:

Even your God, Rupert Merdoch, is from a country with universal healthcare (Australia).

You really are a pathetic troll.

It's Murdoch, I'm not sure how he's my hero but I'm assuming you have a script you follow when you're unable to debate logically and need to throw out emotions.It's sad to see how stupid people are, even in the porn industry. You're a moron BFT3K and you prove it time and time again.

Vendzilla · 09-22-2010, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

And right on cue, several insurance companies announced their plan to STOP selling child-only policies starting Thursday. Why? Because they can no longer deny coverage for pre-existing conditions or kick kids off because of clerical errors = less profits = children suffer = they're ok with that.

Somehow I always doubted that an insurance company gave a shit about health.

SO you're admitting the healthcare law has some flaws, for all it's 2300 pages, that they said would fix everything?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

It's funny how not 1 single poor foreign person can afford to come here for the specialty care that the foreign dignitaries and rich people come here for as you mention

You shine so brightly every day.

So what you're saying is after Obama fucks our healthcare up, he will be going to a different country for healthcare, like the rest of the congress and senate that voted that the healthcare law didn't apply to them?

Tom_PM · 09-22-2010, 11:31 AM

The demon tries to troll me some more and fails and the crowd goes mild.

I've said the words that I've said, and they have the meaning that the dictionary dictates. No need for an interpreter.

The Demon · 09-22-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

The demon tries to troll me some more and fails and the crowd goes mild.

I've said the words that I've said, and they have the meaning that the dictionary dictates. No need for an interpreter.

Tom tries to sidestep facts and use a strawman argument when someone presents facts to disprove his own assertions, and then tries to call someone else a troll. Looks like someone's having trouble keeping up.

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Wake up msnbcdroid, there's no evidence of your assertion.

Omg, AWESOME! I know people in other countries coming here! What's your point? What's that? You don't have one as usual, just doing the trolling thing? Gotcha

It's Murdoch, I'm not sure how he's my hero but I'm assuming you have a script you follow when you're unable to debate logically and need to throw out emotions.It's sad to see how stupid people are, even in the porn industry. You're a moron BFT3K and you prove it time and time again.

Please explain the GOP's new plan to fix America.

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

SO you're admitting the healthcare law has some flaws, for all it's 2300 pages, that they said would fix everything?

So what you're saying is after Obama fucks our healthcare up, he will be going to a different country for healthcare, like the rest of the congress and senate that voted that the healthcare law didn't apply to them?

Please explain the GOP's new plan to fix America.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 11:52 AM

And we're right back to arguing "politics"

Which is EXACTLY what the insurance and pharmaceutical companies want you to do.

Not much different than the Roman gladiators or throwing people to the lions...just keep everybody distracted and arguing amongst themselves. Keep your eye on what I'm doing with this hand...but pay no attention to what I'm REALLY doing with the other.

And "The Demon" (fucking stupid high school nicknames, you should all grow up and be men and use your real fucking names), calling him a "moron" is bullshit and you know it. And trying to justify it by saying "someone else did it first" fits right in with the high school b.s.

I've met BFT3K, and like the majority of folks on here he is a very intelligent guy. He has his opinions based on HIS life experiences just like you and I do.

You destroy your own argument in this debate the very second you start calling names. You go from being a serious part of a discussion, to being a troll instantly. Even if that wasn't your intention.

ThunderBalls · 09-22-2010, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bm bradley

nothing the government is involved in gets cheaper

Oh really? I'll send you a letter through the US Postal Service and you send me the same letter through FEDEX, both will take about the same time but FEDEX will be 200 times more money.

The Demon · 09-22-2010, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

And we're right back to arguing "politics"

Which is EXACTLY what the insurance and pharmaceutical companies want you to do.

Not much different than the Roman gladiators or throwing people to the lions...just keep everybody distracted and arguing amongst themselves. Keep your eye on what I'm doing with this hand...but pay no attention to what I'm REALLY doing with the other.

And "The Demon" (fucking stupid high school nicknames, you should all grow up and be men and use your real fucking names), calling him a "moron" is bullshit and you know it. And trying to justify it by saying "someone else did it first" fits right in with the high school b.s.

I've met BFT3K, and like the majority of folks on here he is a very intelligent guy. He has his opinions based on HIS life experiences just like you and I do.

You destroy your own argument in this debate the very second you start calling names. You go from being a serious part of a discussion, to being a troll instantly. Even if that wasn't your intention.

Not really sure what my username has to do with anything, especially since it was made 7 years ago when I was a teenager, but I digress. Calling him a moron isn't bullshit if you you read his threads. I'm not the first nor the last to do it because the guy possesses no common sense and no real intellect. And your assertion was name calling when I used the term "sheeple", when all I did was change his post around. In fact, it wasn't even addressed to him so again, not sure why you're even posting this nonsense. I do however give you credit for the use of double standards.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThunderBalls

Oh really? I'll send you a letter through the US Postal Service and you send me the same letter through FEDEX, both will take about the same time but FEDEX will be 200 times more money.

The USPS isn't "getting cheaper". It's getting more and more expensive.

Companies like Fed Ex were never meant to compete with the Post Office. They are meant to ship packages and important documents including those that must be delivered overnight anywhere in the world.

But I will say that the United States Postal Service is one of the greatest and best things the govt. ever did.

Matter of fact it is a shining example of a project that is the governments responsibility. Postal service, national defense (not invading and occupying other countries), national infrastructure.
Those are the ONLY things govt. should be involved in.

Not whether or not steroids were used in baseball. Or making laws to govern everything we do from the time we wake up to the time we go to bed at night.

Robbie · 09-22-2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Not really sure what my username has to do with anything, especially since it was made 7 years ago when I was a teenager, but I digress. Calling him a moron isn't bullshit if you you read his threads. I'm not the first nor the last to do it because the guy possesses no common sense and no real intellect. And your assertion was name calling when I used the term "sheeple", when all I did was change his post around. In fact, it wasn't even addressed to him so again, not sure why you're even posting this nonsense. I do however give you credit for the use of double standards.

Your "nickname" is just like everybody else here on a business board with a "nickname"

Time to grow up.

And since you don't know him, but somehow you are judging him because he doesn't agree with you politically is just goddamn stupid.

And trying to say I'm using "double standards" doesn't make a lick of sense.

Look, you don't contribute anything to this forum anyway. So who gives a shit if your "nickname" is "old" or not. You don't own anything or have a company or really have any importance in our industry at this point anyway...at least nothing that is connected with "The Demon" on GFY.

So why don't you simply ask the mods to change it. Use your own name. And if you are in this industry at all, let us know. I've made a lot of money with people right on this very message board. But never with ANY of the mysterious nicknames that don't let me know who or what they are.

And no, I'm not saying you should reveal your identity there Clark Kent. I don't give a fuck. I'm just saying...if you own a company you could identify yourself with your company and your first name.

Looks way more grown up. And I'm not singling you out either. This is 2010. Not the 1990's. The web isn't "new" and "nicknames" on a forum just look childish to me now.

The Demon · 09-22-2010, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Your "nickname" is just like everybody else here on a business board with a "nickname"

Time to grow up.

Once again, my "nickname" was made 7 years ago when I was a teenager, so your point is moot.

Quote:

And since you don't know him, but somehow you are judging him because he doesn't agree with you politically is just goddamn stupid.

The only thing that is "goddamn stupid" is your inability to actually follow those discussions because if you did, you wouldn't accuse me of calling someone names just because they disagree with me. By your logic, I should be calling Kane names all day long because we disagree on so many issues but we don't and want to know why? Because he's one of maybe a handful of people on the entire forum who has the intelligence to back up his assertions.

Quote:

And trying to say I'm using "double standards" doesn't make a lick of sense.

Actually, calling me out for allegedly doing the exact same thing someone else just did is the prime example of double standards. Try again.

Quote:

Look, you don't contribute anything to this forum anyway. So who gives a shit if your "nickname" is "old" or not. You don't own anything or have a company or really have any importance in our industry at this point anyway...at least nothing that is connected with "The Demon" on GFY.

One can say the same about you and the majority of the people on here, but you're here anyway, aren't you. I don't own anything or have a company? My my, aren't you the psychic. Or just full of shit..

Quote:

So why don't you simply ask the mods to change it. Use your own name. And if you are in this industry at all, let us know. I've made a lot of money with people right on this very message board. But never with ANY of the mysterious nicknames that don't let me know who or what they are.

So if I changed my username to my first name (irrelevant because it's taken), that's going to mean...Exactly what?

Quote:

And no, I'm not saying you should reveal your identity there Clark Kent. I don't give a fuck. I'm just saying...if you own a company you could identify yourself with your company and your first name.

Hey guess what champ, the majority of the people on this forum are AFFILIATES.

Quote:

Looks way more grown up. And I'm not singling you out either. This is 2010. Not the 1990's. The web isn't "new" and "nicknames" on a forum just look childish to me now.

The only thing that's childish is your inability to follow discussions, repeated unsupported assertions, and use double standards.

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 12:10 PM

Just to be honest and open, BFT3K stands for...

Big Fat Tits 3000

A spoof on MST3K - Mystery Science Theater 3000

A nickname that came up while talking with Duke from Duke Dollars.

We both laughed, so I decided to use it for the board.

BFT3K · 09-22-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Once again, my "nickname" was made 7 years ago when I was a teenager, so your point is moot.

The only thing that is "goddamn stupid" is your inability to actually follow those discussions because if you did, you wouldn't accuse me of calling someone names just because they disagree with me. By your logic, I should be calling Kane names all day long because we disagree on so many issues but we don't and want to know why? Because he's one of maybe a handful of people on the entire forum who has the intelligence to back up his assertions.

Actually, calling me out for allegedly doing the exact same thing someone else just did is the prime example of double standards. Try again.

One can say the same about you and the majority of the people on here, but you're here anyway, aren't you. I don't own anything or have a company? My my, aren't you the psychic. Or just full of shit..

So if I changed my username to my first name (irrelevant because it's taken), that's going to mean...Exactly what?

Hey guess what champ, the majority of the people on this forum are AFFILIATES.

The only thing that's childish is your inability to follow discussions, repeated unsupported assertions, and use double standards.

Maybe it really is time for you to be banned.

09-22-2010, 08:40 AM	#53
bronco67 Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 29,032	I'm pretty close to a long-time doctor, and he seems to think this new plan will almost eliminate good doctors -- as there'll be no more capitalistic incentive for it. Handing over something so important to the government is a bad move. Since when did government make anything more efficient? It'll just open new avenues for politicians to run corrupt programs and skim taxpayer dollars. Also, no one is entitled to health care from the government. I have health insurance, and while I don't use it often, at least I know I won't be slapped with a $50,000 bill if something bad happens to me. But I pay for my own, and don't expect any help from the government. __________________ Last edited by bronco67; 09-22-2010 at 08:41 AM..

09-22-2010, 09:05 AM	#56
GregE Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 2,704	Get rid of the mandate and it's all good. __________________ 50/50 lifetime payout - EXCLUSIVE CONTENT - CCBill CLiCK here for your Bun Beating Dollars.

09-22-2010, 09:31 AM	#58
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,200	__________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that Last edited by Vendzilla; 09-22-2010 at 09:32 AM..

09-22-2010, 09:44 AM	#61
MrBottomTooth Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 5,795	I'm in Canada and I am totally happy with our health care system. Has worked great for me and for my family members that have had life-threatening ailments. But the recent estimate is that in Ontario, over 40 cents of every tax dollar goes directly to healthcare in our province. (as well as most other provinces) Something to think about. Universal health care is great, but it is not cheap. __________________ Get Paid Per Email Like The WEGCASH Days!!!!

09-22-2010, 09:51 AM	#62
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Everyone is paying for it. Just like everyone pays for stealth bombers. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

09-22-2010, 08:31 AM	#51
Probono Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Under the Rainbow Posts: 2,731	One more note: I live in a country with first world medical care and an office visit costs $7. The difference, no medical malpractice insurance and little liability. If you want health insurance here it is a fraction of US rates.

09-22-2010, 09:01 AM	#55
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	If this new plan is so great for the insurance companies, and it is such a give-away, then why are the insurance companies spending hundreds of millions of dollars to repeal it?

09-22-2010, 10:08 AM	#66
maxxtro Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: EU Posts: 561	Obama's kryptonite cuts to the very heart of the administration's failings at a presidential economic town hall: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tu...-the-depressed __________________

09-22-2010, 10:33 AM	#71
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Will you agree Robbie that when a person who has paid insurance for 10 years has a $50,000 medical emergency that his insurance company denies based on him filling out his form wrong 10 years ago, that something is wrong? I mean where is the line? __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

09-22-2010, 10:40 AM	#73
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	I think you have to worry about the tail wagging the dog. If it was Mom and Pop paying for it, it would NOT cost so much money because such increases would simply lead to nobody ever using it due to lack of money to pay for it. In other words, high prices exist because of insurance. Why else do I think so? Because advocates for repeal cite the "fact" that premiums are based on the "rising cost of health care". Chicken and egg. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

09-22-2010, 10:42 AM	#74
Joshua G dumb libs love censorship Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,198	lots of words traded here. But we all know the truth facing us...health care reform will not change jack shit. It will actually make things worse when the people who are mandated to pay into the gouging insurers choose instead to pay penalties to the government. They will stay uninsured, will not get health care, but will pay money to the government for choosing not to buy unaffordable coverage. If single payer is not going to happen, i would rather go with republican plan to just do nothing at all. Because democrats have no concern about the costs of the things they mandate.

09-22-2010, 10:47 AM	#77
directfiesta Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Punta Cana, DR Posts: 29,586	Popcorn is ready .... Just waiting for the implosion ... __________________ I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT ! But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

09-22-2010, 11:04 AM	#80
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	As long as SOME people have insurance and SOME people do not, this argument will continue. If you want to change the status quo, there are two quick answers... 1) EVERYONE has insurance. 2) NOBODY has insurance. Personally I like the second option. That would make it so that the prices for medicine and medical procedures would have to drop. It would not be realistic for regular, uninsured people, to pay the insane rates that are currently in place, if they were not insured. Last edited by BFT3K; 09-22-2010 at 11:08 AM..

09-22-2010, 11:05 AM	#81
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	Americans who have the "best health care in the world" choosing Mexico. Now thats something you see on the news, but you never hear a politician addressing. The only thing they do is cry about how we'll be socialists and evil. It's kinda disconnected isn't it? I think people are just simply sick of the bullshit around this issue. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

09-22-2010, 11:11 AM	#83
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	And right on cue, several insurance companies announced their plan to STOP selling child-only policies starting Thursday. Why? Because they can no longer deny coverage for pre-existing conditions or kick kids off because of clerical errors = less profits = children suffer = they're ok with that. Somehow I always doubted that an insurance company gave a shit about health. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

09-22-2010, 11:31 AM	#89
Tom_PM Porn Meister Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 16,443	The demon tries to troll me some more and fails and the crowd goes mild. I've said the words that I've said, and they have the meaning that the dictionary dictates. No need for an interpreter. __________________ 43-922-863 Shut up and play your guitar.

09-22-2010, 11:52 AM	#93
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,959	And we're right back to arguing "politics" Which is EXACTLY what the insurance and pharmaceutical companies want you to do. Not much different than the Roman gladiators or throwing people to the lions...just keep everybody distracted and arguing amongst themselves. Keep your eye on what I'm doing with this hand...but pay no attention to what I'm REALLY doing with the other. And "The Demon" (fucking stupid high school nicknames, you should all grow up and be men and use your real fucking names), calling him a "moron" is bullshit and you know it. And trying to justify it by saying "someone else did it first" fits right in with the high school b.s. I've met BFT3K, and like the majority of folks on here he is a very intelligent guy. He has his opinions based on HIS life experiences just like you and I do. You destroy your own argument in this debate the very second you start calling names. You go from being a serious part of a discussion, to being a troll instantly. Even if that wasn't your intention. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

09-22-2010, 12:10 PM	#99
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	Just to be honest and open, BFT3K stands for... Big Fat Tits 3000 A spoof on MST3K - Mystery Science Theater 3000 A nickname that came up while talking with Duke from Duke Dollars. We both laughed, so I decided to use it for the board.