The business of suing porn pirates is spreading. - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Colette16000 · 09-28-2010, 12:20 PM

good, they should be stopped.

Robbie · 09-28-2010, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

But it's far easier and cheaper and more profitable to send out thousands of mails to what might be innocent people, that actually take on the real perpetrators, like the tubes and those actually seeding the torrents "professionally"

This is not a source of income folks.

If you want to see who is "seeding" go to pornbb dot org and open your eyes.

It's not "professionals"
It's the people who are getting nailed right now with these settlements. Matter of fact...they make it easy, they IDENTIFY themselves as the one who did it and all the little thieves on sites like pornbb say "thanks" for it.

It's like picking up candy off the ground. These thieves have been so brazen about it because they thought nobody could do anything.

And yes, it IS an income source. My attorney get a percentage of the win, I get the rest. That's money off my content that I was NOT getting paid for. And it's adding up nicely thank you.

Fbomb - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-28-2010, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The "It won't work" crowd again.

Wonder what their agenda is?

"Technology will adapt...blah-blah-blah" You damn straight it will and it DID! And we're using it to drill the fuck out of surfers on pirate sites. It's profitable and it's starting a NEW word of mouth.
This time the word of mouth isn't "porn is free" it's "don't go to those sites"

Sorry if that's something that scumbags don't like. But as for those of us who are actually in the porn business (I know, there apparently aren't very many here on GFY judging from the reaction of my suggestion a couple of weeks ago to make GFY 'industry only') this is great news.

And it doesn't cost me a penny. The lawyers work on percentage of money won only.

Fuck you pirates. You're going down.

yeeeeey.. we are going to win. Win, win.. Fuck them haters. Im Batman and you're Robin..

Robbie · 09-28-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbomb

Im Batman and you're Robin..

No, you're not even in the same business as me. And you're not even in the same library much less the same book or the same page.

This is out of your league brother. But glad to see you took time out from your "five minutes a day" of working that you bragged about to me to stop by and troll.

borked · 09-28-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

And yes, it IS an income source. I'm splitting 60/40 with my attorney on it. That's money off my content that I was NOT getting paid for. And it's adding up nicely thank you.

EDIT: That's 60% in my favor by the way. With ZERO costs to me. It's called copyright law

If your lawyer is using proper investigative grounds before sending out letters, then fair enough - you can rest assured that there will be few false if any positives.

If they are using software made by whatever-that-company's-name-is for mass picking IPs on files with keywords XYZ, then no, make your profit as you want and bask in the glory that it was made through no investigation but by mass mailing generated from a computer algorithm.

And to hell with those that were innocent but whose lives were wrecked.

Robbie · 09-28-2010, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

If your lawyer is using proper investigative grounds before sending out letters, then fair enough - you can rest assured that there will be few false if any positives.

If they are using software made by whatever-that-company's-name-is for mass picking IPs on files with keywords XYZ, then no, make your profit as you want and bask in the glory that it was made through no investigation but by mass mailing generated from a computer algorithm.

And to hell with those that were innocent but whose lives were wrecked.

I have zero interest in going after folks who didn't do anything. I just want to put an end to people stealing content. And nobody is going to have their lives "wrecked". The settlement is small. And it sends a message to the masses. You are kinda over-exaggerating this.

The only person who would have their lives "wrecked" would be the thief who thinks he can fight it and ends up with his hard drive being examined by professionals in court. THEN he's gonna pay big time including court costs.

borked · 09-28-2010, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I have zero interest in going after folks who didn't do anything. I just want to put an end to people stealing content. And nobody is going to have their lives "wrecked". The settlement is small. And it sends a message to the masses. You are kinda over-exaggerating this.

I'm not Robbie - I am fully behind theft protection and the interests of those who are cut financially short from it, but the angle of this british lawfirm that many are using has gotten my blood boiled. (--edit you may not be using this lawfirm, but the angle is probably the same)

Please download the torrent circulating from their fuckup and load the emails into thunderbird and read them. This is down right deception with the $$$ profit signs reaming from the seams. Not content protection.

Yes, maybe those wanting to protect their interests thought they were getting a duty, but there are at least 2 emails from content producers that clearly questioned the CEO of the validity of his sources, to which he replied "it's a tried and tested route"

This lawfirm saw a niche and fucking ran with it and to hell with the false positives. 4chan picked them up in their aptly named operation. It wasn't at all to something to protect pirates, but to expose those profiting from shady practises.

ottopottomouse · 09-28-2010, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Remember, this whole mess isn't OUR fault. We didn't steal shit. We didn't destroy the industry. We didn't teach hundreds of millions of people that they didn't need to pay for our product.

We have been raped to the ground. It's time to "re-educate" people. There will be consequences for a person's actions. A pornsite is $30 a month. Less than a dollar a day. And yet they still want to steal it? It's time to take back our business.

Hidden cross sales never happened.

The only solution to piracy is going to be some way of locking stuff up so it isn't shareable to start with. Chasing after something once it's already out on the internet is futile. But then i'm not convinced with the blackmail pay up or we tell your wife side of things that you actually want the free distribution to stop.

Obviously you never copied music tapes or did anything naughty in your life. You're demanding compliance with the law from other people over piracy with a completely clean slate of you own on EVERY other possible offence that they might actually think is too bad for them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The "It won't work" crowd again.

Wonder what their agenda is?

No agenda. Just experience of promoting things through the sharing forums a few years ago and an understanding of how those people think.

Robbie · 09-28-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

I'm not Robbie - I am fully behind theft protection and the interests of those who are cut financially short from it, but the angle of this british lawfirm that many are using has gotten my blood boiled.

I hear you.
But if you think about it...why is this happening?

Go to PornBB Dot Org and you'll see why my blood is boiling.

This is something that people have brought down on themselves. Everybody thought it was just great to destroy OUR lives and our finances. But now that it's turning around...suddenly it's all so unfair.

The only reason that an unscrupulous person would have an inroad to profit off of this is because THIEVES made the entire situation a reality in the first place.

Not me. Not Paul Markham. Not anybody who actually produces pornography.

We have been robbed blind. We certainly didn't want that.

But I'm not gonna just stand by and not do anything. I've already tried going after the site owners. They hide behind the "safe harbor" and pretend they don't know that content is stolen while they make money off or all of our work. We couldn't get them.

But going after the very people that make up the traffic sources of those pirate sites? Well...what happens if people are too scared to go to a torrent and download porn? Or too scared to go to PornBB and put up links to entire paysite rips that they've uploaded no rapidshare?

I'll tell you what happens. Those sites lose their traffic and their profitability. And then they die.

This is going to be a lot more effective than you might think at first glance. And the negative publicity of the whole thing is also going to open the eyes of the courts. And just may push through legislation and treaties amongst countries to finally stop copyright infringement and put an end to the whole mess.

If rapidshare or megaupload were told that they were going to be blocked in the U.S. if they provide these full scenes of pornography to the "innocent children" of the U.S. for instance...you bet your ass they would clean that shit up instantly.

This is the kind of thing that could bring that to pass. Enough publicity and this out of control shit will change. It would never change to HELP us of course. But to stop the outrage of the religious right when they discover that thousands and thousands of full scene porn sites are being offered for free with no restrictions to kids?

Things are gonna change.

Robbie · 09-28-2010, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Hidden cross sales never happened.

x-sells went on for over a decade. Every affiliate (including me) promoted sites with them and never even knew it. Sales were at all time records.

Mainstream x-sells are what caused the new visa and mastercard rules. NOT porn.

Sales dropped to the ground when every program I tried to make a sale for has their entire members area ripped for free on megaupload or rapidshare and the links to all the scenes nicely linked up and arranged for you at porn bb by...you guessed it...surfers.

The same surfers we are going after now.

Robbie · 09-28-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

Obviously you never copied music tapes

No, I never took an album...made a complete cd quality copy of it...then uploaded it to a site for millions of people to steal...and then went to porn bb and made a thread about it demanding to be "thanked" for providing the links to it.

Never did that. Never would. That would just destroy sales to something. And not only that, it's STEALING.

I am very liberal in my views. I think a person should be able to do what they please as long as they aren't hurting someone else (getting high for instance, or watching porn)

But a thief? I was raised to believe that stealing is wrong. I have no tolerance for stealing or people stealing or people trying to justify stealing by saying "everybody does it"

ottopottomouse · 09-28-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

No, I never took an album...made a complete cd quality copy of it...then uploaded it to a site for millions of people to steal...and then went to porn bb and made a thread about it demanding to be "thanked" for providing the links to it.

Never did that. Never would. That would just destroy sales to something. And not only that, it's STEALING.

That wasn't what I meant and you know it.

I'm not trying to justify anybodies behaviour. Modern attitude of accept no responsibility for anything you have done as it must be someone else's fault really pisses me off.

I'm just offering a different perspective hopefully to encourage balanced thought rather than people being completely fixed on an idea in a way that sounds almost like religious zealotry. <- and before you blow your top and put me on ignore with Damien that's not supposed to be insulting.

borked · 09-28-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I hear you.
But if you think about it...why is this happening?

The way content is distributed needs changing. And it needs changing on an industry-wide level to be effective.

In your eyes, where does the problem lie? In people ripping porn DVDs and uploading them to torrents? Or the more humble, but equally destructive uploading/seeding of movies downloaded from sites?

If the first, then join the boat of the MPAA.

If the second, join the "other" boat! I personally think this industry is suffering from the latter, not the former.

In which case, the industry has to change how it distributes its media. I'll give you one example - I'm working with a client where media is only available via streams. And I'll tell you that stream is protected to the hilt so that only the hardcore of the hardcore can "rip" it (read screengrab of the movie as it plays). Now a member signs up, they have access to all that content during their membership. On membership cancel, they can still login and will still have access to all the content *that they viewed as a paying member*. Therfore no need to download movies - it's open for them for life, if they viewed it during their membership.

However, the entire library is still available via thumbs etc, and on every chance, an upsell is shown if they try to view a movie they are not allowed to see. The re-engangement by the old member into full membership is huge. BTW, I came up with this idea myself and implemented it for the client and they are well-pleased with the results).

No downloads that can be seeded, full access to the videos they wanted to see in the first place, with the benefit of upsells on content they want to see but no longer have access to as they are not an active member.

Win win. And no content distribution via the torrents as it's practically impossible.

If an industry wide-type of approach to porn is taken, then theft will diminish the same as your idea, but without casualties.

DVD ripping however, is a whole different kettle of fish. Leave that to the MPAA.

Alky · 09-28-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Tell that to all the people being arrested for downloading C.P. the last decade. Tracing the IP was step one.

I think a lot of that is sting operations, where they are logging ip's as it happens. I talked to a detective who said some cellular companies don't even keep texts that are more then 48 hours old.... so I'm sure not all ISP's keep user information for long periods of time.

borked · 09-28-2010, 01:31 PM

Can I just vent here for a minute - put me on ignore if I offend you!

This isn't aimed at anyone at all, but like Robbie said a few posts back, x-sales were going on for years and it wasn't until the mainstream started it that visa cut it all up and put an end to it.

The MPAA took a route to send out demands to old ladies and movie rippers to make good on their copyright holdings that went by the wayside as it got too much bad publicity. The adult industry seems to be waking up to take the same route, reaping the same negative attraction.

Copyright protection aside, why can't we as an industry just stick to no bullshit, non-devious, honest sales marketing to achieve goals?

has it really become such a bottom-scraping $-starved industry where deceptive tactics have to be implemented to earn a living?

People keep saying adapt or die, but there are some who are inventing to adapt yet the industry seems to be self imploding covering those efforts.

I've posted more in this and the other thread than I have in over a month, so I'll stop ranting now

signupdamnit · 09-28-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

x-sells went on for over a decade. Every affiliate (including me) promoted sites with them and never even knew it. Sales were at all time records.

Mainstream x-sells are what caused the new visa and mastercard rules. NOT porn.

Sales dropped to the ground when every program I tried to make a sale for has their entire members area ripped for free on megaupload or rapidshare and the links to all the scenes nicely linked up and arranged for you at porn bb by...you guessed it...surfers.

The same surfers we are going after now.

I'm with you on taking down the pirates but I think to deny that hidden pre-checked cross sales hurt sales in the long term is wishful thinking. As soon as the average surfer gets hit once by it and especially if they have to go through the embarrassment of canceling their credit card with the hot banker girl, they are going to be much more hesitant to pull out the card next time. Of course we didn't see it in the short term but in the long term such a thing could only have hurt us. It was and is a mistake to place short term profits over long term revenue. It usually is...in any industry.

Btw, I always wondered why more sponsors don't tap their affiliates for identifying pirate content. If you have to, offer a struggling affiliate $200 a month to comb places like pornBB and send you a daily email which could immediately go to the normal legal process (DMCA takedowns, etc). I'm sure quite a few would do it. If not struggling affiliates someone would.

Fbomb - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-28-2010, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

No, you're not even in the same business as me. And you're not even in the same library much less the same book or the same page.

This is out of your league brother. But glad to see you took time out from your "five minutes a day" of working that you bragged about to me to stop by and troll.

Ok, you be the batman.. Nice to see you working hard on your keyboard techniques Robbie.
So on average day, how much time do you spend on forums? 4-5 Hours?

Robbie · 09-28-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbomb

Ok, you be the batman.. Nice to see you working hard on your keyboard techniques Robbie.
So on average day, how much time do you spend on forums? 4-5 Hours?

All day on GFY multi-tasking. When my tasks don't require my complete attention I post. For instance when I'm rendering video or moving terrabytes of content onto my backup drives or running an automated batch of pics in photoshop, or adding galleries into the cue on my tgp's.

It's either fuck around on GFY or sit there babysitting a task on my computer while I stare into space. lol

PornMD · 09-28-2010, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

has it really become such a bottom-scraping $-starved industry where deceptive tactics have to be implemented to earn a living?

Granted I'm but a mere surfer but from what I've seen on this board, yes it has.

mikesinner · 09-28-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11430299

Claire is a Sky Broadband customer from Shropshire whose name has appeared on one of the lists leaked onto the internet.

She received a letter three weeks ago accusing her of illegally sharing a pornographic film.

The 25-year-old told Newsbeat she's never file-shared pornography in her life.

What exactly did the letter say?

"The film was called Chubby Chasers, which is just awful, and the letter [said] I owed them £495 or they would be taking me to court in a civil law case.

"I burst into tears because I didn't recognise the name of the film, I've never uploaded or downloaded pornography in my life.

"I was distraught, really really upset."

How can you prove that you didn't do it?

"The time that I was accused of downloading the film I was in bed. It was very early morning - on a Tuesday.

"My alarm wouldn't have even gone off yet.

"My partner had been made redundant and I know damn well that he was in bed and hadn't got up and started download pornography.

"I know we didn't do it. There was no way we could have done it."

What do you want to see happen?

"I want the whole operation stopped first of all. There are a lot of innocent people who have received these letters from what I've read on forums and websites.

"I think the Information Commissioner has the power to fine up to £500,000.

"I hold responsible ACS:Law - they are the company sending out these letters.

"They accused me, they've got my data and they shouldn't be sharing it with anybody."

How has the whole thing made you feel?

"I just keep waking up in the middle of the night thinking 'What more can I say to them to prove I am innocent?'

"All I can do is deny it and tell them that I know I didn't do it... It just scares me because I work in a job where I work with vulnerable people.

"I would hate for anyone to link me to that sort of material - it's vile, the whole thing's vile.

"My employer could see it and people could link me to material I've had nothing to do with.

"I feel happy this whole thing is out in the open and people are aware of it. But I want people to realise that some of the people on the list are innocent.

"I want this stopped and I want my details taken off and I want an apology from someone."

This is why going after the file sharers is idiotic and will never work. Ever downloaded a movie file only to find out it's porn?

You have to go after the hosts and keep going after them.

signupdamnit · 09-28-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PornMD

Granted I'm but a mere surfer but from what I've seen on this board, yes it has.

Not everyone in the industry is like this.

Nautilus · 09-28-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Reading her sad little bullshit story, she is "sure" that her boyfriend didn't do it.
BWAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Can't tell you how many times I've heard that fucking bullshit as a paysite owner.

"Oh, someone must have used our credit card...or Junior must have gotten my credit card

Yes this part was funny as hell, I damn nearly choked when I read that stupid bitch is "sure" her boyfriend "would never do it".

It's painfully obvious what happened there for any one who's in the trenches doing real industry job, producing and selling PORN and not spouting some theories that do not have any ground in real world.

But OK, she's doesn't belong to our world and doesn't know what we all know. Can't really blame her. Probably she'd never have had to face the reality if that poor little sucker the boyfriend of hers who's fantasizing about being gang ass raped by a shemale police squad wan't too cheap to buy a membersip, and support people who're shooting that stuff for him, and downloaded his fix from a torrent istead.

What's really amazing is that people who are buyng into this bs "oh my husband would never do it" excuse, they're posting this nonsense at the industry board, industry that made FUCKING BILLIONS selling memberships to those guys who would "never do it", never download shemale or bbw or barely legal teen porn etc etc. But of course, "never".

My banking account says otherwise though.

Nautilus · 09-28-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

I'm all for fighting piracy but this way is NOT the way. I understand copyright holders seeing it as a way of fighting back, and probably 90% of those IPs are guilty, but jeeese, what the fuck happened until innocent until proven guilty.

You make it sound as if Steve, Robbie and all the other guys who're sueing thieves are plotting to overthrow the legal system or trying to machine gun 'em all with an IP found on a torrent site without giving them a say in the matter.

The answer to your questions is, NOTHING fucking happened to the innocent until proven guilty concept. They're sending them fucking LETTERS for Christ's sake, not sentences. If they're wrongly accused they can prove they're innocent in court, or just flush that letter down the toilet.

DamianJ · 09-28-2010, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I've really tried to like you Damian.

You haven't. You think when I post suggesting blackmailing people is good that I am pro piracy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

But it's fucking obvious you don't know a goddamn thing about this business. So fuck off.

Or it's obvious I disagree with you and know lots about this business after 6 years and have clients that pay me accordingly? And fuck off is laughably funny. You really live that mulletted redneck cliche to the full, don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You don't do anything in the real porn business.

Well I consult for Playboy UK, 3wayscash.com, cinemaerotique.com amongst many others. You remember when we met in Vegas and I was working for Lady Sonia and you BEGGED me to arrange a shoot. So, you are not quite right there. But thanks for trying.

DamianJ · 09-28-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I have zero interest in going after folks who didn't do anything.

Well suing IP addresses will result in exactly that, as the RIAA and MPAA have proven. So I would stop doing that. If you are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I just want to put an end to people stealing content.

You won't ever, ever do that. The fact you think you will is amusing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The only person who would have their lives "wrecked" would be the thief who thinks he can fight it and ends up with his hard drive being examined by professionals in court. THEN he's gonna pay big time including court costs.

That has never happened in a case like this and will never happen because the idea of blackmail is to extort money, not actually stop any wrong doing.

DamianJ · 09-28-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

zealotry. <- and before you blow your top and put me on ignore with Damien that's not supposed to be insulting.

It's how rednecks debate.

Robbie: Piracy sucks
Everyone here: Yes

Robbie: I think blackmailing people like this thread is about is a good idea
Anyone sensible: No Robbie, it's not. The company is just trying to extort money from anyone. Read the emails that were leaked. Added to which, this story is about top 40 music piracy, not porn.
Robbie: People that download porn are bad and I think blackmailing them is brilliant!

Damian: Robbie, blackmailing people isn't good.
Robbie: YOU ARE ON IGNORE YOU PIRATE

Sigh.

Nautilus · 09-28-2010, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

It's how rednecks debate.

Robbie: Piracy sucks
Everyone here: Yes

Robbie: I think blackmailing people like this thread is about is a good idea
Anyone sensible: No Robbie, it's not. The company is just trying to extort money from anyone. Read the emails that were leaked. Added to which, this story is about top 40 music piracy, not porn.
Robbie: People that download porn are bad and I think blackmailing them is brilliant!

Damian: Robbie, blackmailing people isn't good.
Robbie: YOU ARE ON IGNORE YOU PIRATE

Sigh.

You came in here in the blaze of glory accusing people left and right of "blackmailing" other people, you haven't even bothered to at least ask Robbie how exactly his mailing is done, where the data is coming from etc, and just went on bubbling your "blackmail" nonsense, not interested in listening to anything that is beyond your theory, and now you're wondering why you're on ignore.

Here is an eye opener for you - all people blindly pushing their agenda with holier than thou attitude end up on ignore sooner or later.

borked at least tried to call for some kind of "proper investigation" before sending letters, which was kinda the voice of reason. Now your attitude is that ALL settlement letters sent by anybody, no matter how it is done and where the data is coming from, are "blackmail", because the article above says so. Millions of people will be "wrecked", their lives ruined, but here goes DamianJ, the savior of the world.

Argos88 · 09-28-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I hear you.

Go to PornBB Dot Org and you'll see why my blood is boiling.

do you remember when I posted that url a while back and people just didn't care?

that is just one example.. you can add another monster of illegality like extreme-board dot org or any file sharing site.

And nobody seems to be caring or taking those guys down.

Even PAYPAL is processing and suporting extreme-board dot org... they have a section where a lot of people donate money via paypal on a daily basis.

INCREDIBLE..

.

Paul Markham · 09-29-2010, 03:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

The very thought that unless one can solve an impossible problem (piracy) they are not allowed to comment on blackmail being bad is ridiculous Paul.

You won't stop piracy and I've posted many, many ways for people to limit the damage.

You didn't read it wrong. You just didn't read it.

Yes you are allowed to comment on blackmail being bad. Pirates blackmail content owners over the fact that there actions shouldn't be stopped because innocent people will be caught up in their mess is also blackmail.

No I have never read any of your suggestions on how we limit piracy. I have read these comments you made and others about piracy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian

You are so awesome with your straw man arguments. Heh.

No-one said Brazzers do not make money from stealing content and putting it on a tube site Pauly, did they?

I said it wasn't worth bothering trying to stop piracy because it doesn't represent a lost sale.

The RIAA recently agreed with me. You like them, so you must now agree with them?

And about RIAA giving up on suing pirates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian

I guess they were clever enough to realise that piracy doesn't represent a lost sale and concentrated on other things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian

Were they called Ye Olde Brazzers?

I find it interesting that the printing press was originally thought of as "piracy".

People who are failing love to blame something. Why not blame piracy, rather than say, "being shit"? Much easier!

I have made threads and many posts about the quality of the product we sell and how to improve it. Never aver seen one from you.

And there's more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

This isn't hard Paul and I have explained it before. An illegal download isn't a lost sale, because the 14 year old who downloaded it was never going to buy it in the first place. OK?

And it is not worth bothering with because you will never, ever stop it.

If you are still struggling here is further reading:

Electronic Arts says that it understands how an illegally downloaded copy is not, in any way, a copy that was lost as a sale to the company

http://news.softpedia.com/news/EA-Ad...es-94516.shtml

Judge James P. Jones gave his opinion on United States of America v. Dove, a criminal copyright case, ruling that each illegal download does not necessarily equate to a lost sale

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...lost-sales.ars

Hope that helps. Anything else you don't understand feel free to email me privately to save you embarrassing yourself further.

Love

Damian

So all the downloaders are 14 year old kids and by a sale not lost do you mean a sale picked up by a pirate off pirated content?

Your own posts show where your heart is.

Now post how you think we can limit the damage of pirating on content owners to show you have a clue. I'm sure many hear have not heard it, so they are waiting for your knowledge.

DamianJ · 09-29-2010, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

You came in here in the blaze of glory accusing people left and right of "blackmailing" other people, you haven't even bothered to at least ask Robbie how exactly his mailing is done, where the data is coming from etc, and just went on bubbling your "blackmail" nonsense, not interested in listening to anything that is beyond your theory, and now you're wondering why you're on ignore.

Ooh, get you.

a) no blaze of glory, I just think blackmailing people for profit with no agenda at all for stopping piracy is bad. You, Robbie and Paul Markham think it is good.

b) I asked Robbie if he was doing blackmail letters, so I was interested to learn his approach.

c) I am not wondering why I am on ignore. I am pointing out it is a rather ridiculous stance to take when someone points out why you are wrong about something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

Now your attitude is that ALL settlement letters sent by anybody, no matter how it is done and where the data is coming from, are "blackmail", because the article above says so.

Nothing to do with the article. Have you not read it yet either?

I think sending someone that pays the bill of an IP address demanding money to settle is blackmail. I've thought that since Davenport Lyons tried it on in the UK.

I think courts will too, which is why a) not a single case I know of has actually gone to court and b) there are judges that are not stupid that have realised it is blackmail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

Millions of people will be "wrecked", their lives ruined, but here goes DamianJ, the savior of the world.

Far from being a saviour of the world, I am trying to make people actually READ the article, realise the company involved are nothing but money grabbing cunts by READING the emails from them that are online, then coming to the ONLY decision any sane human can, namely that blackmailing IP address for money is wrong.

I am yet to see anyone in this thread present an arguement that says "hiring a company to knowingly extort and blackmail for profit with no interest in stopping piracy is good because..."

Feel free to finish the sentence.

DamianJ · 09-29-2010, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Yes you are allowed to comment on blackmail being bad.

Oh good, earlier you said unless I could stop piracy I should shut up and get the fuck out of the thread, so this is progress Paul!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I have made threads and many posts about the quality of the product we sell and how to improve it. Never aver seen one from you.

I really cannot held responsible for your ignorance.

I'd love to read your ideas on how making better quality product will stop piracy. Please link me to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So all the downloaders are 14 year old kids and by a sale not lost do you mean a sale picked up by a pirate off pirated content?

Yes. Obviously. ALL downloaders are 14 Paul, that is exactly the point I was making. They are all called Steve too. And like Nickelback. ALL of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Your own posts show where your heart is.

They show me thinking that blackmailing potential customers is bad. Your posts show you think this is good.

Great. Now what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Now post how you think we can limit the damage of pirating on content owners to show you have a clue. I'm sure many hear have not heard it, so they are waiting for your knowledge.

Tell you what Paul, you explain why you think a company that sends out extortion letters solely to MAKE MONEY is a good idea. The RIAA and MPAA have given up doing it. So I would love to see what YOU know that THEY don't.

Please explain why you think this is a moral approach. Point/counterpoint.

Your challenge will be to post without bringing your personal annoyance with me into it. Just try and stick to the topic. Why ICS:Law's approach is the right approach.

Can't wait to read it.

x

Fbomb - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-29-2010, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

And yes, it IS an income source. My attorney get a percentage of the win, I get the rest. That's money off my content that I was NOT getting paid for. And it's adding up nicely thank you.

How much did you get so far and who paid you?

I think you're full of shit there Robbie.

wolfshade · 09-29-2010, 05:53 AM

My

I have been reading this thread for a while, as well as the one from Steve Lightspeed, and to be honest they gave me a chuckle.

IMO this is another prime example of the industry shooting themselves in the foot.

Why? Because all you are doing is creating more tech savvy users, and while you are going after the "low hanging fruit", the generations after that will use means that are harder to track, detect and pursue, eventually leading up to a point that it costs more to find them then you ever could hope to recoup.

That is if you can find them at all.

Already there are private torrents, encrypted P2P tools, networks like TOR and it gets better. Just the other day I read about a Harvard student who has a P2P protocol in the works that roams decentralized, is encrypted and will make it impossible to find the users.

So while you are now hunting the easy targets, the ones after that will become harder and harder.

You can't stop piracy, Pandora's box has opened and it is far to late to shut it.

The music industry is facing that
The movie industry is facing that
The Adult industry will have to face it also, sooner or later. RIAA is costing money, instead of making some back.

The message you want to send out isn't received in the fashion you would hope. Instead of "don't go to those sites" its going to be "Use this and that tool, and they you are invisible".

So again: You are only creating more tech savvy surfers. This will backfire over time in a MAJOR way.

IMO you can't stop it, but you can profit from it, if the vids and the pics become promotional tools for shit you can't rip or copy (Live stuff).

IMO that's the way we should be heading, so for a change Adult will be on the front lines again of innovation, instead of being a mere shadow of her former self.

Use it instead of fighting it, would be a far better option.

Fbomb - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-29-2010, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfshade

My

I have been reading this thread for a while, as well as the one from Steve Lightspeed, and to be honest they gave me a chuckle.

IMO this is another prime example of the industry shooting themselves in the foot.

Why? Because all you are doing is creating more tech savvy users, and while you are going after the "low hanging fruit", the generations after that will use means that are harder to track, detect and pursue, eventually leading up to a point that it costs more to find them then you ever could hope to recoup.

That is if you can find them at all.

Already there are private torrents, encrypted P2P tools, networks like TOR and it gets better. Just the other day I read about a Harvard student who has a P2P protocol in the works that roams decentralized, is encrypted and will make it impossible to find the users.

So while you are now hunting the easy targets, the ones after that will become harder and harder.

You can't stop piracy, Pandora's box has opened and it is far to late to shut it.

The music industry is facing that
The movie industry is facing that
The Adult industry will have to face it also, sooner or later. RIAA is costing money, instead of making some back.

The message you want to send out isn't received in the fashion you would hope. Instead of "don't go to those sites" its going to be "Use this and that tool, and they you are invisible".

So again: You are only creating more tech savvy surfers. This will backfire over time in a MAJOR way.

IMO you can't stop it, but you can profit from it, if the vids and the pics become promotional tools for shit you can't rip or copy (Live stuff).

IMO that's the way we should be heading, so for a change Adult will be on the front lines again of innovation, instead of being a mere shadow of her former self.

Use it instead of fighting it, would be a far better option.

Count down for Robbie to call you a surfer and a pirate.
You shouldn't have used logic in this convo. Just do the praise.

wolfshade · 09-29-2010, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fbomb

Count down for Robbie to call you a surfer and a pirate.
You shouldn't have used logic in this convo. Just do the praise.

In that case it would be his mistake.

The mistake of assuming I am the kind of person who gives a rats ass about the opinion of others.

Paul Markham · 09-29-2010, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

We all know in the eyes of the average joe, pornography is taboo and that many a divorce would happen if Mrs X knew about Mr X's fetishes... hence these letters getting sent out are blackmail and shit scum like ACS:Law are pure thugs praying on this as a source of income from their clients.

If Mr X doesn't want to get caught with his pants down he had best not unbuckle his belt. Not lower them and pray no one catches him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesinner

This is why going after the file sharers is idiotic and will never work. Ever downloaded a movie file only to find out it's porn?

You have to go after the hosts and keep going after them.

So he pirates a film and gets caught because it's porn.

******************

Will innocent people get caught up in the mess created by pirates? YES and I've already said it. That's the problem of enforcing any laws. The notion you don't enforce them to protect the innocent who might get caught up in it is STUPID.

If pirates really care let them fund the legal defense of the innocent. This will bring down rogue lawyers a lot faster than anything else. But pirates love to see the innocent accused. It gives them a reason to point the finger at those chasing them.

The fight against pirates has just started and it will be perfected in the future.

The good thing about this is the publicity it's getting. Pirates must be thinking "What if I get caught?" As it escalates the fear factor will kick in more and more. This will deter some.

For other ways to fight piracy read this. http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=...4#post17551114 It will be a long fight because we started late. But if most of you want a job, you had best start fighting.

Dirty Dane · 09-29-2010, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfshade

So again: You are only creating more tech savvy surfers. This will backfire over time in a MAJOR way.

IMO you can't stop it, but you can profit from it, if the vids and the pics become promotional tools for shit you can't rip or copy (Live stuff).

You can't rip or copy live stuff?

Fade out one product and push the problem on another is not going to help anyone except for those profit from it in the process. Like you said, more tech savvy surfers.

wolfshade · 09-29-2010, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Will innocent people get caught up in the mess created by pirates? YES and I've already said it. That's the problem of enforcing any laws. The notion you don't enforce them to protect the innocent who might get caught up in it is STUPID.

There are no Innocent people, everybody is guilty of something, so no argument there.

Quote:

If pirates really care let them fund the legal defense of the innocent. This will bring down rogue lawyers a lot faster than anything else. But pirates love to see the innocent accused. It gives them a reason to point the finger at those chasing them.

Nope, but they will develop means to protect those who use the tools themselves, see my previous reply

Quote:

The fight against pirates has just started and it will be perfected in the future.

Don't count on it. It will get perfected, but the other way around. The industry will have a hell of a time catching them, and an even harder time pursuing them.

Quote:

The good thing about this is the publicity it's getting. Pirates must be thinking "What if I get caught?" As it escalates the fear factor will kick in more and more. This will deter some.

Don't count on it. This will speed up the process in developing secure transfers, perfect encryption methods, and will make networks like TOR more popular. We're not just late in this fight, we're too late. People don't scare that easy, as you can see when you look at the action from the Music and Movie industry. They utilize the same means, yet torrents, P2P tools, Filesharing hosts are more popular then ever. And that's without considering usenet, which is another major source.

Quote:

For other ways to fight piracy read this. http://www.gfy.com/showthread.php?p=...4#post17551114 It will be a long fight because we started late. But if most of you want a job, you had best start fighting.

It's a fight you cannot win, and therefore pointless. Waste of time, effort and money better spend in other more profitable ways.

wolfshade · 09-29-2010, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

You can't rip or copy live stuff?

Fade out one product and push the problem on another is not going to help anyone except for those profit from it in the process. Like you said, more tech savvy surfers.

Not in a fashion that you can distribute through P2P.

Of course you can hack servers, steal passwords to the live stuff, but that's a different problem entirely(And one that is a fight one can actually win)

Dirty Dane · 09-29-2010, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfshade

Not in a fashion that you can distribute through P2P.

Of course you can hack servers, steal passwords to the live stuff, but that's a different problem entirely(And one that is a fight one can actually win)

Live or not, they will distribute the same way as today: 1 source to leak it. All he have to do is rip the live show and then make it available for others.

DamianJ · 09-29-2010, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

It's either fuck around on GFY or sit there babysitting a task on my computer while I stare into space. lol

You can't think of anything better to do than this while you render? Wow.

Here is a list of 10 other potentially profitable things you could do instead of call everyone who disagrees with you a pirate, which frankly isn't yielding you much revenue, is it?

http://www.adultmarketing.co.uk/2010...et-more-sales/

wolfshade · 09-29-2010, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Live or not, they will distribute the same way as today: 1 source to leak it. All he have to do is rip the live show and then make it available for others.

To rip means to make a copy of it and distribute it. Until we develop an instant cloning process to clone the performer I don't see that happening.

What you are talking about must either be leaking passwords or recording the show.

While the first is something you can stop at the source the latter is not a live show.

Since live is the main attraction of it, I don't see the harm in ripping it. In fact if its any good it might even entice more to go see the live show

I don't see that as a bad thing at all, in fact if I were hosting live shows I'd be giving away recordings of it myself :D

Agent 488 · 09-29-2010, 06:41 AM

bittorrent was a response to napster. these lawsuits will just cause the next innovation. adapt or die.

Nautilus · 09-29-2010, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfshade

Why? Because all you are doing is creating more tech savvy users, and while you are going after the "low hanging fruit", the generations after that will use means that are harder to track, detect and pursue, eventually leading up to a point that it costs more to find them then you ever could hope to recoup.

As if we have anything to loose lol. If your predictions come true, it'll simply through us back to a situation where we started a couple of months ago - rampant piracy that is completly out of control and nobody can do shit about it.

You're trying to scare us that by sueing downloaders we'll create a situation of out of control piracy that we've already been through, still are. Brilliant logic

I'll tell you one thing, those who never fight back, are doomed to always loose.

wolfshade · 09-29-2010, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent 488

bittorrent was a response to napster. these lawsuits will just cause the next innovation. adapt or die.

Webmasters should print this and hang it above their screens

Dirty Dane · 09-29-2010, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfshade

To rip means to make a copy of it and distribute it. Until we develop an instant cloning process to clone the performer I don't see that happening.

What you are talking about must either be leaking passwords or recording the show.

While the first is something you can stop at the source the latter is not a live show.

Since live is the main attraction of it, I don't see the harm in ripping it. In fact if its any good it might even entice more to go see the live show

I don't see that as a bad thing at all, in fact if I were hosting live shows I'd be giving away recordings of it myself :D

So what you saying is that pirates downloading non-live stuff today is not interested in what they download? Nope, they want to jerk off to it. It doesn't matter who produced it, a real producer or a surfer recording, they will jerk off when they have downloaded it.

If you know a live show host allowing me to rip their shows to sell another product, let me know

wolfshade · 09-29-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

As if we have anything to loose lol. If your predictions come true, it'll simply through us back to a situation where we started a couple of months ago - rampant piracy that is completly out of control and nobody can do shit about it.

You're trying to scare us that by sueing downloaders we'll create a situation of out of control piracy that we've already been through, still are. Brilliant logic

I'll tell you one thing, those who never fight back, are doomed to always loose.

I think you need to re-read my reply.

In my scenario it does not matter how tech savvy the surfer is, since in my scenario P2P is used for marketing rather then to hunt pirates.

So indeed if I am right(After all it is only my opinion, not fact) you will be back where you started, with less money in your pocket, due to the witch hunt and matters are worse, unless you take my approach and get ahead of the game, so indeed I find my idea rather brilliant in its simplicity

As for fighting back, I do fight back if needed, but if its clear from the start the fight is a lost cause to begin with I rather turn the tables around, think outside the box and profit from the situation. That way I win in any event. If the fight should be through a miracle successful I profit, if not I still profit. So it really is no skin of my bone either way.

Last, not trying to scare anyone, just injecting a dose of reality in the discussion. I am not thinking this up, TOR gets more popular and bigger every day, and BT more sophisticated and secure.

wolfshade · 09-29-2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

If you know a live show host allowing me to rip their shows to sell another product, let me know

Here is the core of the matter, and IMO your error in thinking. Those who distribute the stuff through P2P don't do it for profit.

If you will be using it to sell stuff, that's another matter and also quite easy to track and prosecute.

That again is a fight you can win.

So apples and oranges really

Fbomb - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-29-2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

As if we have anything to loose lol. If your predictions come true, it'll simply through us back to a situation where we started a couple of months ago - rampant piracy that is completly out of control and nobody can do shit about it.

You're trying to scare us that by sueing downloaders we'll create a situation of out of control piracy that we've already been through, still are. Brilliant logic

I'll tell you one thing, those who never fight back, are doomed to always loose.

So whats your fight besides posting on GFy.com? What have YOU done? And lets not do the lame comeback of "Well, what about you?".
What have you done ?

Dirty Dane · 09-29-2010, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfshade

Here is the core of the matter, and IMO your error in thinking. Those who distribute the stuff through P2P don't do it for profit.

If you will be using it to sell stuff, that's another matter and also quite easy to track and prosecute.

That again is a fight you can win.

So apples and oranges really

This is what you said: "IMO you can't stop it, but you can profit from it, if the vids and the pics become promotional tools for shit you can't rip or copy (Live stuff)."

So you are ok with A using B's production to sell his own stuff, but not the other way around?

09-28-2010, 12:20 PM	#51
Colette16000 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Malibu, California (La-La land) Posts: 41	good, they should be stopped. __________________ Colette (aka Coco) www.x-art.com

09-28-2010, 01:31 PM	#65
borked Totally Borked Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,284	Can I just vent here for a minute - put me on ignore if I offend you! This isn't aimed at anyone at all, but like Robbie said a few posts back, x-sales were going on for years and it wasn't until the mainstream started it that visa cut it all up and put an end to it. The MPAA took a route to send out demands to old ladies and movie rippers to make good on their copyright holdings that went by the wayside as it got too much bad publicity. The adult industry seems to be waking up to take the same route, reaping the same negative attraction. Copyright protection aside, why can't we as an industry just stick to no bullshit, non-devious, honest sales marketing to achieve goals? has it really become such a bottom-scraping $-starved industry where deceptive tactics have to be implemented to earn a living? People keep saying adapt or die, but there are some who are inventing to adapt yet the industry seems to be self imploding covering those efforts. I've posted more in this and the other thread than I have in over a month, so I'll stop ranting now __________________ For coding work - hit me up on andy // borkedcoder // com (consider figuring out the email as test #1) All models are wrong, but some are useful. George E.P. Box. p202

09-29-2010, 05:53 AM	#83
wolfshade Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The right place Posts: 847	My I have been reading this thread for a while, as well as the one from Steve Lightspeed, and to be honest they gave me a chuckle. IMO this is another prime example of the industry shooting themselves in the foot. Why? Because all you are doing is creating more tech savvy users, and while you are going after the "low hanging fruit", the generations after that will use means that are harder to track, detect and pursue, eventually leading up to a point that it costs more to find them then you ever could hope to recoup. That is if you can find them at all. Already there are private torrents, encrypted P2P tools, networks like TOR and it gets better. Just the other day I read about a Harvard student who has a P2P protocol in the works that roams decentralized, is encrypted and will make it impossible to find the users. So while you are now hunting the easy targets, the ones after that will become harder and harder. You can't stop piracy, Pandora's box has opened and it is far to late to shut it. The music industry is facing that The movie industry is facing that The Adult industry will have to face it also, sooner or later. RIAA is costing money, instead of making some back. The message you want to send out isn't received in the fashion you would hope. Instead of "don't go to those sites" its going to be "Use this and that tool, and they you are invisible". So again: You are only creating more tech savvy surfers. This will backfire over time in a MAJOR way. IMO you can't stop it, but you can profit from it, if the vids and the pics become promotional tools for shit you can't rip or copy (Live stuff). IMO that's the way we should be heading, so for a change Adult will be on the front lines again of innovation, instead of being a mere shadow of her former self. Use it instead of fighting it, would be a far better option. __________________ Returning soon to a browser near you..............

09-29-2010, 06:41 AM	#93
Agent 488 Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 22,511	bittorrent was a response to napster. these lawsuits will just cause the next innovation. adapt or die.