Those who oppose suing downloaders, step inside. - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Barefootsies · 10-02-2010, 01:05 PM

A hundie pornographer lawyers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

just sue everyone

True dat. Let the paramedics sort em out.

borked · 10-02-2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsteele

Real quick thoughts:

Steve and others ARE sticking to their primary business, and outsourcing enforcement on a contingency fee basis. Beats paying per letter to a site that will repost the content the next day.

The murky "bad precedent" argument is too vague. I am not sure people getting caught and having to pay the content producers is a bad precedent. Or establishing multiple cases where rulings make it clear that the BS defenses the pirates have are in fact BS.

Most importantly BITTORRENT IS NOT USED FOR LEGITIMATE DOWNLOADING. What a misguided argument. P2P is used to anonymously steal content (well, not so anonymous anymore

P2P would not be used by a content producer who sells content and has it downloaded directly from his site to his legitimate clients. Bit torrent is horribly slow and inefficient compared to a direct link to a porn site. When we see bit torrent, we ask ourselves, "Hmmm, what is this person stealing today". And one study showed that 99.3% of all BT is illegal. Anyone here use BT for legal purposes?

Oh and fair use has been so discredited by federal courts on this issue that I suggest people considering that argument obtaining a westlaw account and research it. People relying on that nonsense are going to be paying our clients big money.

At the end of the day, it is all about results. The number of companies contacting my firm since the AVN article is only overshadowed by the number of pirates tying up our phone lines to discuss settlement. Something tells me Steve will be more than vocal about any success we have for him.

Andrew Crossley spoke the same words as you a few years ago. He had his 2 years run yet I doubt his firm will be continuing imo. IANAL.

ottopottomouse · 10-02-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronig

Whether you've pirated your whole life, or haven't, you'd be a complete dumbfuck fuckwad if you were currently engaged in the porn industry and couldn't see how piracy is making it CRUMBLE and wouldn't be open to REAL ACTUAL SOLUTIONS even if they are slightly unethical.

It's not a solution to piracy and i'm fairly sure if you got johnsteele drunk and then asked him off the record whether he wants piracy to stop he would say no as it would hit his pockets.

crazytrini85 · 10-02-2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

These guys aren't actual IP lawyers. They're a step above your typical ambulance chaser. People think lawyers are scum, these guys are on the top of the list.

You do what for a living?

chronig · 10-02-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

It's not a solution to piracy and i'm fairly sure if you got johnsteele drunk and then asked him off the record whether he wants piracy to stop he would say no as it would hit his pockets.

Piracy is at it's highest form yet, anyone who thinks different is a fucking idiot. A blubbering fucking idiot. It's never been like this. Even if these particular measures were half as likely to succeed than what they are, it would still be worth a try.

This board is full of porn-surfing/pirating basement dwellers and that's where the typical negative sentiment towards this is coming from...

chronig · 10-02-2010, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

It's not a solution to piracy and i'm fairly sure if you got johnsteele drunk and then asked him off the record whether he wants piracy to stop he would say no as it would hit his pockets.

And I don't give a fuck what johnsteele has to say about whether he wants piracy to stop or not... what a stupid comment

That's like asking a police department if they want crime to stop

No one wants to be out of work...

candyflip · 10-02-2010, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

This world can be a crazy place...

True dat tootsie.

ottopottomouse · 10-02-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronig

And I don't give a fuck what johnsteele has to say about whether he wants piracy to stop or not... what a stupid comment

That's like asking a police department if they want crime to stop

No one wants to be out of work...

My comment was based on you saying this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronig

Whether you've pirated your whole life, or haven't, you'd be a complete dumbfuck fuckwad if you were currently engaged in the porn industry and couldn't see how piracy is making it CRUMBLE and wouldn't be open to REAL ACTUAL SOLUTIONS even if they are slightly unethical.

Which made it sound like you thought this effort would actually do something to stop/reduce piracy.

candyflip · 10-02-2010, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazytrini85

You do what for a living?

Lots of different things.

Adult and Mainstream site owner. Property owner and manager. I've owned a restaurant and a retail storefront.

Not sure what that has to do with anything, but there you go.

chronig · 10-02-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

My comment was based on you saying this:

Which made it sound like you thought this effort would actually do something to stop/reduce piracy.

of course I think this effort would stop or more importantly and realistically REDUCE piracy

Just like you'd think a Police department would stop or more realistically reduce crime...

Neither means that a Police chief or lawyer would want it to END COMPLETELY and be out of a job.

How about you just get back to editing some images and shut the fuck up on the issue already. You're not making any sense and I'm sure it boils down to you simply wanting to be able to continue to keep filling your pirated porn database as easily as possible

Fuck off - bye

ottopottomouse · 10-02-2010, 02:02 PM

You forgot to call me a surfer and say that you're putting me on ignore.

chronig · 10-02-2010, 02:08 PM

By the way - suing/blackmailing downloaders isn't going to scare off any porn buyers

- the amount of 15-21 year old broke college kid basement dwelling porn downloading faggots on this forum is ridiculous...

The current sentiment is WOW YOU PAY FOR PORN? YOU FUCKING LOSER! GET THAT SHIT FO FREE LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD IDIOT!

Watch this bastard nignog outline it here:

Fucking clown.. he says he has friends in the porn biz and isn't trying to put them out of business... well... by making this video that's exactly what he's contributing towards

So - take our beloved (weird, antisocial, quite possibly virgins as they may be) porn subscribers who definitely have to buy their subscriptions in private, get KNOCKED publically on youtube about it, and find for themselves that they're getting jipped because they're paying for something that's more or less readily available for them on various torrent sites, file sharing forums, etc around the world and present them with the current situation: UPLOADERS AND DOWNLOADERS GETTING SUED FOR PIRATING PORN!

How do you think that makes them feel for spending money on porn over the years instead of pirating it and getting sued like these other guys?? It would make them feel GREAT!

Seriously - this is an adult industry forum! Someone needs to get all these 15-20 year old mom's allowance faggots OUT of these threads with their bullshit opinions backed by their real concern of not being able to google gayfaggottwinksareus.com and download their porn for free.

crazytrini85 · 10-02-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

It's not a solution to piracy and i'm fairly sure if you got johnsteele drunk and then asked him off the record whether he wants piracy to stop he would say no as it would hit his pockets.

I don't think anyone said they were set out to stop piracy. They are only saying they want to get paid for people viewing their content.

chronig · 10-02-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ottopottomouse

You forgot to call me a surfer and say that you're putting me on ignore.

crazytrini85 · 10-02-2010, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronig

Seriously - this is an adult industry forum! Someone needs to get all these 15-20 year old mom's allowance faggots OUT of these threads with their bullshit opinions backed by their real concern of not being able to google gayfaggottwinksareus.com and download their porn for free.

Preach on.

candyflip · 10-02-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronig

Seriously - this is an adult industry forum! Someone needs to get all these 15-20 year old mom's allowance faggots OUT of these threads with their bullshit opinions backed by their real concern of not being able to google gayfaggottwinksareus.com and download their porn for free.

I was 6 years old when I got started in this business.

flashfire · 10-02-2010, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

I don't oppose it, however I think it would be more effective to sue the people who are stealing the content and then uploading it to the torrents / tube sites. I think that is who they should go after the real offender. The end down loader is guilty but not as guilty as the person who stolen it and then distributed it.

Its like going after crack addicts instead of the drug dealers. Why not go to the source of the problem??? Since they can't shut down the torrents / tube sites because of DMCA why not go after the people who put the content on the torrents? If there is nothing on the torrents then there is nothing to download.

they are scared shitless of the real offenders...they are not hard to find and we all know the big ones. It like cops going after the jon because they can't/wont touch the pimp

gideongallery · 10-02-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsteele

Real quick thoughts:

Steve and others ARE sticking to their primary business, and outsourcing enforcement on a contingency fee basis. Beats paying per letter to a site that will repost the content the next day.

The murky "bad precedent" argument is too vague. I am not sure people getting caught and having to pay the content producers is a bad precedent. Or establishing multiple cases where rulings make it clear that the BS defenses the pirates have are in fact BS.

so agree to pay for the extra legal cost if the bad precedent is set then. If there is no possiblity of it happening you really should have a problem committing your firms resources.

real copyright lawyers know that timeshifting was extended to the cloud, other fair uses will also be extended in such a way.

Quote:

Most importantly BITTORRENT IS NOT USED FOR LEGITIMATE DOWNLOADING. What a misguided argument. P2P is used to anonymously steal content (well, not so anonymous anymore

what the fuck are you talking about bit torrent is a public broadcast protocol, you have always been able to identify the ip address of the seeders by definition that how you know who to connect too.

if you don't understand that simple fact how the hell can you be expected to understand the legal consequences of technical specs.

Quote:

P2P would not be used by a content producer who sells content and has it downloaded directly from his site to his legitimate clients. Bit torrent is horribly slow and inefficient compared to a direct link to a porn site. When we see bit torrent, we ask ourselves, "Hmmm, what is this person stealing today". And one study showed that 99.3% of all BT is illegal. Anyone here use BT for legal purposes?

currently more than 50% of all bit torrent traffic is content that is broadcast on tv. The majority of bit torrent users are using it as a vcr. And it is an obviously superior version of a vcr. the swarm is a pvr that has an infinite hard drive, which records every show, and allows you to watch what you want whenever you want, and skip the annoying commercials.

it allows people to tune into shows they didn't realize they would have liked because the tv stations did a substandard marketing of the show ( supernaturals).

the only way you get ot 99.3% illegal is by ignoring fair uses like timeshifting (see above) backup and recovery etc.

Quote:

Oh and fair use has been so discredited by federal courts on this issue that I suggest people considering that argument obtaining a westlaw account and research it. People relying on that nonsense are going to be paying our clients big money.

says the divorce lawyer who doesn't even understand the reference spec of the protocol he is discussing.

Quote:

At the end of the day, it is all about results. The number of companies contacting my firm since the AVN article is only overshadowed by the number of pirates tying up our phone lines to discuss settlement. Something tells me Steve will be more than vocal about any success we have for him.

so why not agree to cover all the legal expenses if the bad precedent happens. If you truly believed it never going to happen, you should have a problem committing your firms resources.

johnsteele · 10-03-2010, 12:40 AM

Ouch. Gideon Gallery is not a believer. I respect that. Lets agree to this. I will sue people, and you keep telling people what I'm doing is stupid. We will see who gets to $1M with this project first. How much money can you make arguing for the continuation of illegal downloading? Anyone who things P2P is legit is using BT to download something illegal IMHO.

I respect those who disagree with me, and I hope that in the end, we can have a beer and debate this at a bar at the next AVN show.

AzteK · 10-03-2010, 12:45 AM

............

u-Bob · 10-03-2010, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsteele

Most importantly BITTORRENT IS NOT USED FOR LEGITIMATE DOWNLOADING.....Anyone here use BT for legal purposes?

I downloaded a slackware iso last week using bittorrent. perfectly legal.

u-Bob · 10-03-2010, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsteele

Anyone who things P2P is legit is using BT to download something illegal IMHO.

p2p = a type of architecture.
bittorrent = a p2p protocol.

Using those things is not illegal.
Yes, they can be used to download stolen content. And that would be illegal. A car can be used to transport stolen goods, but that doesn't make cars or the use of cars illegal.... djeez...

candyflip · 10-03-2010, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u-Bob

p2p = a type of architecture.
bittorrent = a p2p protocol.

Using those things is not illegal.
Yes, they can be used to download stolen content. And that would be illegal. A car can be used to transport stolen goods, but that doesn't make cars or the use of cars illegal.... djeez...

He's a lawyer and you're not. He already knows everything.

will76 · 10-03-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

How much is the average downloader being sued for?

How much is the person who uploads the content being sued for ?

care to answer ?

gideongallery · 10-03-2010, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsteele

Ouch. Gideon Gallery is not a believer. I respect that. Lets agree to this. I will sue people, and you keep telling people what I'm doing is stupid. We will see who gets to $1M with this project first. How much money can you make arguing for the continuation of illegal downloading? Anyone who things P2P is legit is using BT to download something illegal IMHO.

I respect those who disagree with me, and I hope that in the end, we can have a beer and debate this at a bar at the next AVN show.

still noticed you didn't commit your firms resources to everyone if your efforts create another fair use barrier to everyone elses cases (ala teen revenue botched unfair business attempt)

i would respect you if you did that, it would prove that you truely believed your "anyone who thinks p2p is legit is using BT to download something illegal"

let be honest it a money grab , you know this could turn out badly but you don't give a fuck because all it going to do is increase your billable hours if you lose.

iSpyCams · 10-03-2010, 09:29 AM

I wonder if it's legal to send them an invoice with some prominent text threatening legal action in case of non-payment.

I know in America you can sue anybody for anything, but sending out invoices willy-nilly is most likely not allowed.

My point is, invoicing, if legal would be gentler, certainly cheaper and wouldn't preclude suing non payers.

Barefootsies · 10-03-2010, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

I wonder if it's legal to send them an invoice with some prominent text threatening legal action in case of non-payment.

I know in America you can sue anybody for anything, but sending out invoices willy-nilly is most likely not allowed.

My point is, invoicing, if legal would be gentler, certainly cheaper and wouldn't preclude suing non payers.

Interesting thought.

candyflip · 10-03-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnsteele

We will see who gets to $1M with this project first. How much money can you make arguing for the continuation of illegal downloading?

Ah ha. So it is just about the money. At least we are right on that part.

Serge Litehead · 10-03-2010, 10:24 AM

gideon, you cannot throw that "50% legit torrents/downloads" until you can completely verify all of them who had what rights to this "redundant backup cloud" of yours. please stop making up facts on the fly to suit your "agenda" to counter argue.

MrRob · 10-03-2010, 10:30 AM

It's not only a money grab, they are creating a cash crop.

Wouldn't it be sweet if the gov payed you the fines directly and then had the offenders put on a payment plan to pay back the government.

$$$$$

10-02-2010, 02:02 PM	#111
ottopottomouse She is ugly, bad luck. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,177	You forgot to call me a surfer and say that you're putting me on ignore. __________________ ↑ see post ↑ 13101

10-03-2010, 12:40 AM	#119
johnsteele Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 12	Ouch. Gideon Gallery is not a believer. I respect that. Lets agree to this. I will sue people, and you keep telling people what I'm doing is stupid. We will see who gets to $1M with this project first. How much money can you make arguing for the continuation of illegal downloading? Anyone who things P2P is legit is using BT to download something illegal IMHO. I respect those who disagree with me, and I hope that in the end, we can have a beer and debate this at a bar at the next AVN show. Last edited by johnsteele; 10-03-2010 at 12:44 AM..

10-03-2010, 12:45 AM	#120
AzteK Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Northern Cali, USA Posts: 3,439	............ Last edited by AzteK; 10-03-2010 at 12:47 AM..

10-03-2010, 10:24 AM	#129
Serge Litehead Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Behind the scenes Posts: 5,190	gideon, you cannot throw that "50% legit torrents/downloads" until you can completely verify all of them who had what rights to this "redundant backup cloud" of yours. please stop making up facts on the fly to suit your "agenda" to counter argue. __________________ SilverCrocodile.com Adult web design since '05

10-03-2010, 10:30 AM	#130
MrRob Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 92	It's not only a money grab, they are creating a cash crop. Wouldn't it be sweet if the gov payed you the fines directly and then had the offenders put on a payment plan to pay back the government. $$$$$ Last edited by MrRob; 10-03-2010 at 10:31 AM..

10-02-2010, 02:08 PM	#112
chronig Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 2,653	By the way - suing/blackmailing downloaders isn't going to scare off any porn buyers - the amount of 15-21 year old broke college kid basement dwelling porn downloading faggots on this forum is ridiculous... The current sentiment is WOW YOU PAY FOR PORN? YOU FUCKING LOSER! GET THAT SHIT FO FREE LIKE THE REST OF THE WORLD IDIOT! Watch this bastard nignog outline it here: Fucking clown.. he says he has friends in the porn biz and isn't trying to put them out of business... well... by making this video that's exactly what he's contributing towards So - take our beloved (weird, antisocial, quite possibly virgins as they may be) porn subscribers who definitely have to buy their subscriptions in private, get KNOCKED publically on youtube about it, and find for themselves that they're getting jipped because they're paying for something that's more or less readily available for them on various torrent sites, file sharing forums, etc around the world and present them with the current situation: UPLOADERS AND DOWNLOADERS GETTING SUED FOR PIRATING PORN! How do you think that makes them feel for spending money on porn over the years instead of pirating it and getting sued like these other guys?? It would make them feel GREAT! Seriously - this is an adult industry forum! Someone needs to get all these 15-20 year old mom's allowance faggots OUT of these threads with their bullshit opinions backed by their real concern of not being able to google gayfaggottwinksareus.com and download their porn for free.

10-03-2010, 09:29 AM	#126
iSpyCams Amateur Gynecologist Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Location: Medellin Posts: 4,436	I wonder if it's legal to send them an invoice with some prominent text threatening legal action in case of non-payment. I know in America you can sue anybody for anything, but sending out invoices willy-nilly is most likely not allowed. My point is, invoicing, if legal would be gentler, certainly cheaper and wouldn't preclude suing non payers.