JFK

Fitty lawsuits

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tony286

Actually it does matter if you produce content or not. If you deal with all the bullshit, buying equipment learning how to shoot with said equipment, learning editing. Sweating your balls off shooting in hot hotel rooms, lugging gear for shooting trips. Flaky models,record keeping.
If you do that you tend to feel very different about then if you are a dating site affiliate or you sell ads on some ad network. Also people on torrents arent customers.No one says boy I like these 10 gigs of porn scenes I got for nothing. Now Im going to buy a membership .

DWB

That's bad.

DigiProtect is the scam operation in the UK everyone is talking about? I know the story but don't know the name of the company.

will76

I don't oppose it, however I think it would be more effective to sue the people who are stealing the content and then uploading it to the torrents / tube sites. I think that is who they should go after the real offender. The end down loader is guilty but not as guilty as the person who stolen it and then distributed it.

Its like going after crack addicts instead of the drug dealers. Why not go to the source of the problem??? Since they can't shut down the torrents / tube sites because of DMCA why not go after the people who put the content on the torrents? If there is nothing on the torrents then there is nothing to download.

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tony286

also I find it funny when people call this a cash grab but the torrent operators they are running them out of the goodness of their hearts?

will76

I agree with this statement 110%.

If they want to sue the DOWNLOADER then they should be sueing that person for the cost of 1 or 2 months membership to their site at most.

If they want to sue the person who STOLE the content and UPLOADED it and made it available to millions of people for free, then sue that fucker for thousands of dollars.

To sue the downloader for anything more than a couple months membership price is total bullshit IMO and I do think it is greed and blackmail at that point since there is ZERO justification to sue them for more since all the download did was not pay for it, they didn't cause any damages like the uploader did.

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tony286

they are hitting both i think.

GetSCORECash

4 law firms in the USA alone, just wait another year and it will be like foreclosure attorneys, one in ever thread/board in the industry.

Tube sites are next, since they want to call themselves ISPs, and hide under that protection. They are going to need to hire a law firm to answer the requests...

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gideongallery

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2MuchMark

What do you suggest as an alternative?

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mynameisjim

As to the amount of the settlements, that is not because it is a cash grab, it is because that's the only way you can get the lawyers to chase it down. If you go after each offender for $29.99, it's not worth the effort. Although the pro-piracy crowd thinks everything should be free, the lawyers haven't quite gotten the memo on that yet so they have to make money. Would you work for a $2 PPS? Same thing.

As for the backlash, that isn't even go to be a factor in these cases like it was in the RIAA cases. The media was behind the backlash against the RIAA. The media only ran stories about teen age girls and old ladies being sued which pushed public opinion against the RIAA. Porn is still seen as dirty and NOBODY in the media is going to try to find sympathy for someone who is stealing so they can jerk off. The same way the newspapers prints pictures of men caught in prostitution stings. The media always sides against people who are caught doing something sexual.

This will play out pretty much the opposite of the RIAA cases IMHO.

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CPA37710T

I do own intellectual property (mp3's, some movies, wii games)

but...

mp3's i download are from artists i really like and i assist their concert, buy memorabilia etc.

movies: only when its a very suckee movie, i own a lot of original dvd's and blu rays from my real fav movies, movies i download i just watch them once and never again (yet picture quality sucks)

wii games: i own a ps3, so i dont even use it

Xbox360 games: i have a modded xbox360 and i have a lot of pirated games.. but i was banned from xbox live, when i was banned from xbox live i realized theres no use on using a console that doesnt have up date features etc...

so guess what... ive stick to my ps3 that only plays original movies, i have my favorite movies on original formats and the music i love i carry it not on their albums but on their memorabilia.


my point of view is: why try to stop something that wont.. if it becomes illegal its going to be worst, cause people will start smuggling piracy, and as i said in another thread, wherever theres an illegal practice theres money involved, and pirates will want that money.


thanks

flashfire

The biggest pirates are among us in the industry and we all know who they are you guys are just scared shitless of them and would rather sue some single mother who's kid got on to the computer while she was at work

Nick_Merlot

Maybe a debate about an industry problem? Fuck! You people are idiots sometimes!

FeelMyTube

courts / governments / general population don't like this industry.

blackmailing a big number of small users will just bring a lot of unwanted attention from everyone. It backlashed for the music industry, it will be much worst for porn.

btw, I'm sure a lot of the users downloading/sharing these torrents are kids in their teens (no money, horny, lots of free time, tech savvy,... ) can you imagine the mess when parents get the letters? they will try to go after eveyone for letting their kids watch this dirt. I'm pretty sure they will never pay a dime.

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Argos88

Users?

lol... that's stupid.. they must sue OWNERS.. not users...

.

ottopottomouse

The backlash will come. How far is being happy with bit of collateral damage going to go when a few old ladies have heart attacks and die because of the shame of a false accusation. Then the media, who will have been itching to run stories about someone famous ending up on the list of downloaders, will start writing stories about how bad the whole random suing thing is. If you think porn has a bad reputation now, wait and see what it's like then.

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johnsteele

I am amazed at the posts here and feel I must respond to some of the more unbelievable and misleading statements here. I would say that my thoughts on the matter should bear some credibility as I am probably the only person here who has actually sued pirates, collected money, and has software to go after pirates. Here goes:

1. "Sell a product worth paying for and you'll cut down on the downloading." Really? So the better the movie, the Less likely someone is to steal it. That makes no sense. Statistics show the most downloaded porn, or mainstream movie, is the good stuff. Why download crap when the #1 porn of the year is also available?

2. Backlash. If someone wants to stand up for the rights of pirates to steal content, I'll take that fight any day, especially in court. Stealing content is a crime. I have to believe that the most of the people defending theft are thieves. I can't believe people depending on selling content to make a living think that stealing content is ok.

3. false positives. I have not had one yet. Our firm's software is so much more advanced than RIAA, that I laugh when people mention us in the same breath as those simpletons. There are trade secrets involved, but I can say that the amount of proof we have that person X downloaded file Y at exactly Z time, etc. is pretty impressive.

4. The people we represent have content being pirated on a massive scale. I have seen attacks on people like Steve Lightspeed, saying he has old content and is not making any money anymore so he is resorting to suing pirates to make money. I do not know how much Steve earns selling content. But I can say he has massive pirating going on, so that means a lot of people want his content.

5. I will keep saying this until I am blue in the face, but here goes: We work on contingency and NEVER make more than the content producer when we do collect money for them. This canard that "all the money just goes to the lawyers" is silly. I wish I got most of the money. I have to suggest that to Steve next time I see him.

6. Blackmail. If making people pay you when you catch them stealing content is blackmail, then so is making someone pay you when they are caught stealing your car. Prosecutors tell Defendants "You agree to this plea deal, and pay X in restitution, or we go to trial and see what the jury thinks of our evidence." If someone did not do what we allege, and we are just making up our accusations, we will have the mother of all counter suits. Despite what the armchair lawyers here think, filing federal lawsuits and going before a judge appointed by the president is no minor task. Since we are batting 100% with our requests to all of the judges hearing all of our cases to date regarding discovery, and our suits in general, I would respectfully suggest that if 1/3 of the federal judges (hey, we are filing a lot, what can we say?) in the Northern District of Illinois thinks these suits have merit, I will trust them over an anonymous poster on gfy.com.

7. Some claim that lawsuits lose money. The RIAA pay their attorneys by the hour. Those attorneys are incentivized to bill as many hours as possible. I work on contingency and only make money if my client does. If my client makes 0, I make less than zero, as I front the costs of the suits. I promise to stop filing these lawsuits the minute I stop making money.

I welcome reasoned responses.

crazytrini85

Awwwww. All the poor single mothers.


Do you mean that the porn industry will finally get a bad name for itself?

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lagcam

I completely agree with these statements....

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candyflip

I provide internet for the 5 tenants that live in one of my properties. How exactly are you able to tell which of the 5 were sitting at any specific computer at a specific time downloading your specific file?

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CaptainHowdy

People seem to learn the hard way, go get them...

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neilmc

I'm sure it was by the time they came knocking on the door.

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ottopottomouse

No

I mean it will get an even worser reputation for just being selling disgusting filth and run by a load of scummy cunts.

Porn should be being promoted as harmless entertainment rather than trying to push the media to associate the lawsuits with a large portion of settle to avoid the embarrassment factor.

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Agent 488

then you have to pay the blackmail. sorry this is war. there were be collateral damage.

welcome to ignore.

candyflip

I'm really curious as to how they will manage this scenario when it comes up. They might be able to pinpoint which computer was used, but there's no way they can determine which of the 5 people would have downloaded the file.

Serious question. I'd like to see a serious answer.

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Agent 488

also wondering how many successful lawsuits they have won in court.

The Demon

Going on this kind of escapade is as useless as the RIAA's strategy. It hasn't worked for them, what makes you think it will work for you? Piracy isn't going to go away anytime soon, instead it's going to increase. Instead of bitching and moaning, be an innovator. Make people not WANT to pirate your shit. Net flix was revolutionary in its approach, for instance. $7.95 a month for unlimited movies and tv shows? It reduced movie piracy dramatically.

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Serge Litehead

cj's/popup hell, blind links/misleading tours, installs, crazy xsells, shady trials, banging cards, free explicit content.
industry was fucking itself from the beginning, too bad there weren't any serious media attention before, otherwise maybe industry would clean its act by some degree.

"blackmailing" pirates to get the message out that sharing stolen content may have its consequences at least will make some people think twice before doing that.

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crazytrini85

Tell one of your tenants to download one of Steves videos and find out?

I would think an isp can tell if more than one system is on an IP. In my old apartment we would get messages that too many computers were connected and it would reject us. If they are all connected then each computer name will be accessing it leaving some sort of trail.

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DWB

I just sent that post to everyone filing suits. Amazingly, they called it all off after reading that insightful piece and asked me to personally thank you for stopping what would be mass embarrassment and a black eye to the adult industry.

I think that was the part that sold them.

candyflip

This is just a house rented out by college students. It's local cable internet with wireless router that they all have access to.

They are also a group of friends and it's not uncommon for them to share laptops or connect via iPad, iPod or smartphone as well. I also know that they've had other people not living in the house using the network while visiting or working at the house.

I'm really curious as to how they can determine who was using what computer at that specific time.

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Major (Tom)

You hit the nail on the head!
Duke

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will76

How much is the average downloader being sued for?

How much is the person who uploads the content being sued for ?

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gideongallery

your half right there
yes more people will want to steal it but if you do things right like setting up a private tracker correctly, you will slow the unauthorized torrents to a crawl.

produce a better product combined with slowing down the unauthorized alternatives is more than enough to get the sales back up.

there is a better way than the we are going to publically out your porn preferences if you don't pay us blackmail scheme to do this.

wow a lawyer who is so fucking clueless about copyright law that he doesn't realize that infringment is closer to fraud than to theft.

but that the point, the guy fighting you in court won't be defending thieves he will be defending fair use of the content.

fact the torrents are the worlds best backup for content you don't care about confidentiality for.

every leacher becomes a redundant backup for your content (fair use of backup) the piece nature of the distribution means that during the entire process of transfer it nothing but a transient cache (fair use of cacheing). The infringement only happens when the pieces are put back in order so the copy is working. Technologically you don't have half the shit you need to do to make this case winable when you get a real fight on your hand.

unless steve is giving lifetime access to the content bought your attempting to take away that fair use right. If you were a copyright lawyer with some experience with fair use you would understand what kind of problem your going to cause for all of us when this fight is lost.


really and your software tells the difference between a person simply using the torrents to recover content they already bought, and people who never bought the content.


ignoring fair use is a false positive too.

past success establishes multiple legitimate uses of the torrents (see backup and recovery above)


which you don't address at all in your current system

i would not fault you if you did make most of the money, if you built a system which was not going to lead to fucked up precedent that is going to screw us all.


so would you be willing to say agree to pay any person who simple used the torrents to recover the porn they bought say 1 million dollars if you get access to their personal information (for the act of violating their privacy)

say the world and i would make sure to be in your cross hairs, after i bought the dvd of the content in question.

argueing that we have to go to steve and reup the membership just to get content we already paid for is about as valid as when jack valenti said

the mpaa lost that fight.

you just hit the nail on the head, your only going to do the amount of work to keep it profitable
your not going to spend a second of your time determining the negative consequences of any precedent that is set if you lose.

i wish the legal system made lawyers who set bad precedents responsible for the legal fees of every case that has to live with those conseqences.

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gideongallery

so you don't know how to setup a nat or too cheap to buy one of the routers that supports it by default.

actually the second is a bit of a flaw, you would be hard pressed to find a single wireless g or above router that doesn't do both nat and IP masquerading by default

it a hell of a lot more common than you think.


the network printer getting a lot of takedown request happened specifically because of ip masquerading it was because of one of those routers that acted as the print server as well. The pc on the private network were doing the actual downloading, the router/print server had the only public address to see from the outside world.

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Barefootsies

Yes, I produce my own content and own the rights.

It is not that I am for, or against piracy bud. It's about the economics of running a business. The amount of money you spend trying to chase down and sue a river of infringers would be better spent on either.....

1. Developing a better mousetrap for your pay sites. Where the client can enjoy your content on the site, and while a member, but can't take it with them. Mark the videos with their IP while they watch. Something that makes it more difficult.

2. Grow some balls and use DRM. If you think theft is sooooooo rampant. I am sure the handful of people you lose to DRM would be a lot less than all these pirates people bitch about. So it's a trade off in the "war on piracy".

3. When you go the route of mass lawsuits against anyone, and everyone, you have made that your business model. Just like that shithead from Perfect10 who has tried to sue Rapidshare, and lost. Google, and lost. Who knows how many others? The point being, he does not focus on great content anymore. He spends all his time and money on law suits.

4. The money you waste on lawsuits would be better spent hiring RemoveYourContent or a couple of interns to police your shit off the web. It would cost a fraction of the time, aggravation, and expense. Plus, over all, be better for your business then some lawsuit that will ultimately not change shit.

5. Stop giving away all of your shit to your affiliates. Go invite only. I would bet you many of those affiliates who never sent you a single click took all of your shit and posted it up somewhere. This is one of the greedy failures of this industry.

As a content producer myself, I am all for people protecting their content and doing what you need to like Robbie has. If your content really is as good as you think, a few minor changes are not going to chase off all of your customers. If you, 'have the bead on them', as many think they do. You should know that they will buy regardless if you know your niche.

That said, I think giving up your primary purpose and business of developing sites, and technology, to protect your content while continuing to actually PRODUCE NEW CONTENT to just try and Sabre rattle a few kids into money you will never collect is a futile enterprise.

The point being, you have to decide if you are still actively going to be in the porn business, and worry about running that business which is providing for your patrons. Or if you want to run around shouting to the heavens to anyone who will listen, and wasting time, money, and years of aggravation just to 'prove a point'.

There are many other cost effective ways to run a business, and provide your service.

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borked

all +1, but #1 moreso. Enough people are leaning to think this way that it will become a de facto standard soon I hope. I'm not for this, inject every x frames so the user doesn't notice... add it in the movie all the time to let it server as a good deterrent. Prevention is better than cure

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Noe

Agreed

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johnsteele

Real quick thoughts:

Steve and others ARE sticking to their primary business, and outsourcing enforcement on a contingency fee basis. Beats paying per letter to a site that will repost the content the next day.

The murky "bad precedent" argument is too vague. I am not sure people getting caught and having to pay the content producers is a bad precedent. Or establishing multiple cases where rulings make it clear that the BS defenses the pirates have are in fact BS.

Most importantly BITTORRENT IS NOT USED FOR LEGITIMATE DOWNLOADING. What a misguided argument. P2P is used to anonymously steal content (well, not so anonymous anymore P2P would not be used by a content producer who sells content and has it downloaded directly from his site to his legitimate clients. Bit torrent is horribly slow and inefficient compared to a direct link to a porn site. When we see bit torrent, we ask ourselves, "Hmmm, what is this person stealing today". And one study showed that 99.3% of all BT is illegal. Anyone here use BT for legal purposes?

Oh and fair use has been so discredited by federal courts on this issue that I suggest people considering that argument obtaining a westlaw account and research it. People relying on that nonsense are going to be paying our clients big money.

At the end of the day, it is all about results. The number of companies contacting my firm since the AVN article is only overshadowed by the number of pirates tying up our phone lines to discuss settlement. Something tells me Steve will be more than vocal about any success we have for him.

ottopottomouse

Prevention doesn't put lawyers kids through school though.

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MrRob

John Steele, can you answer these two questions please:

How much is the average downloader being sued for?

How much is the person who uploads the content being sued for?

I'm curious how you calculate the cost/damages etc etc?

arock10

just sue everyone

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chronig

A big company going under (and thus pushing the same surfers to different means) is a lot different than targetting the company, the uploaders, and the downloaders.

Big company goes under WHO GIVES A FUCK

Bobby Jacobs my next door neighbour gets busted for pirating LESS content than me? Holy shit! I better stop pirating

Bit torrent is as easy as p2p/napster once you get the hang of it. Pushing people to more underground means is a good thing, it still means less people doing it, and less people knowing how to do it. The more complicated it is to pirate, the better (for producers).

chronig

It's really gotten to a point of ridiculousness (piracy).... Something needs to be done and glad to see that you guys have done AT LEAST SOMETHING.

Everyone used to cry about no one doing anything and people being pussies about pirating. Now that old farts like Steve have finally realized just what a monster modern day piracy is and are doing something about it, of course you here crys of the opposite.

chronig

Yeah it's a "meter" of time you porn surfing nothing to do with the industry faggot surfer. Just shut the fuck up already.

The only ones opposed to this are

1. GFY surferz


2. GFY basement dwellers/psychos (trolls)
<insert can you tell which one is timeshifting? pic here>

3. "Marketing expert" clowns like DamianJ that make no money and have likely never taken a picture of anything other than their ugly-toothed british girlfriend.


I've always used pirated software, ever since I was a little kid, knew about ftps, warez groups, and even napster way before 99% of people my age

Even now I watch movies off thepiratebay, pirate single-player video games, or software - it's absolutely ridiculous how easy it is, let alone when it required a little bit of knowledge and research back in the day.

Think I've ever bought a porn subscription? From programs that used to brute-force password guess, to pw request boards, etc.

Does that make me a hypocrite for now being a bit older, having produced content and websites myself, and not want people pirating the material? Sure. Do I give a fuck? Nope.

All you basement dwelling faggots can go fuck yourselves.

Whether you've pirated your whole life, or haven't, you'd be a complete dumbfuck fuckwad if you were currently engaged in the porn industry and couldn't see how piracy is making it CRUMBLE and wouldn't be open to REAL ACTUAL SOLUTIONS even if they are slightly unethical.

chronig

Didn't read past your first few lines, but the lawyers are hired on % basis. It's not costing Steve or anyone else anything to campaign these lawsuits. It's making them money.

candyflip

Wow. Even we can think alike from time to time.


FYI: These guys aren't actual IP lawyers. They're a step above your typical ambulance chaser. People think lawyers are scum, these guys are on the top of the list.

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candyflip

I notice you skipped over my question about determining who in a household of 5 was the one who actually downloaded the file, based on my scenario and actual arrangement with tenants.

And I could easily point out a number of legitimate uses for bittorrent. If you really think that it has no legitimate use, you are again mistaken.

I'm amazed sometimes by lawyers I hear who have obviously graduated law school and passed the bar. But you hear them talk on subjects they should be well versed in, seeing that they're practicing in that environment, and they're absolutely clueless and boarderline retarded.

Much like the asshat in this video:

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Barefootsies

This world can be a crazy place...

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