Manwin and Pink Visual Answer Your Digital Finger Printing/Filtering Questions - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

borked · 10-05-2010, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RycEric

http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090141805

Excellent - thanks

Zyber · 10-05-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Paul, word to the wise, start using the word allegedly in your posts.

You are very busy libelling people left right and centre here.

You insinuate I am a pirate all the time knowing I won't sue you for your attempts to damage my business because you cannot wrap your old brain around the fact someone can be both anti-blackmail and anti-piracy.

However, Fabian and Allison both have considerably more money than you. And much better lawyers.

I would, seriously, suggest that you stop posting your opinion on events as facts. Especially as you are almost always wrong anyway. Just using "I think" or "allegedly" you would protect your incorrect rants from legal repercussions.

HTH

Love

Damian
xoxox

Is there a single post from you where you don't defend piracy? It certainly seems as if you always take the side of the pirates.

What's in it for you? Do you run a pirate site yourself, or why so strong sympathies with the thieves?

RycEric · 10-05-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xes network

Im so glad this program has been put together and im gonna try it out and make a wish list on how to improve it and see how this evolves. I looked into this type of technology a couple of years ago with a forensic fingerprinting program by civolution and they wanted like 30K so what APAP is bringing to the table may be cost effective to start.

Welcome to GFY

Industry Role: Affiliate Programs
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1

DamianJ · 10-05-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyber

Is there a single post from you where you don't defend piracy? It certainly seems as if you always take the side of the pirates.

What's in it for you? Do you run a pirate site yourself, or why so strong sympathies with the thieves?

Please quote me defending piracy. Please quote me taking sides with the pirates. In the post you quote I was advising Markham not to libel people.

I do not run a pirate site. I do not support piracy. I do not support blackmailing IP addresses. I have no sympathy for a thief.

I just think people should spend money on things that gets them more sales and makes them more money.

I can draw you a picture if you are still struggling, love.

Robbie · 10-05-2010, 11:20 AM

Zyber, the "ignore" feature is something I never used until the other day. I finally realized that some people just don't have anything of value to add to a conversation. And the ones that don't I just put them on "ignore"

It's been the best thing I've done on GFY. I always thought: "Maybe this person or that person will have something of value or relevance one day" But now I'm realizing that some folks are just here to argue and give uneducated opinion.

Of course I don't put the ones who are funny and make me laugh on "ignore" But the ones who don't have much personality to begin with and then insist on making grandiose "know-it-all" statements about areas of the business that they have zero experience in....well, it's a MUCH better experience here at GFY without them.

stever · 10-05-2010, 11:22 AM

so as of now only 9 tubes are participating?
which doesnt really make this worth it since most of the pirating is happening on torrents/forums/etc

as for the partner program do you really think that tube sites will want to have a trailer overwrite a full scene that has a digital video fingerprint? when they prefer to have full length or longer videos? this goes against their whole business model and would hurt their traffic if all videos uploaded became trailers

and lastly not sure if this was answered about robbie's question what happens to all the stuff that is already circulating out there? this cannot be protected? and future dvd releases?

PXN · 10-05-2010, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

It's simple.

After the court case there was a meeting between Manwin and Pink Visual/Topbucks. They decided to get into bed with each other to further their own interests at the expense of others.

So any affiliate sending Pink Visual/Topbucks is now in bed with Pornhub.

That what I was thinking all along.

Nautilus · 10-05-2010, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiMpLe

Watch the first 2 secs of this video - Case in point...

http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.ph...key=1298498983

I have to agree with Robbie, you're pushing it too far my friend. How can we tell a difference between this video of yours and an average amateur selfshot smartphone video of a guy fucking a melon with his wife's panties in his mouth?

No way we can do that without this new digital fingerprinting technology.

Nautilus · 10-05-2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stever

and lastly not sure if this was answered about robbie's question what happens to all the stuff that is already circulating out there? this cannot be protected? and future dvd releases?

This digital fingerprinting tech is covering all stuff including those videos already circulating. It's kinda comparing two videos pixel by pixel to see if they match, just more sophisticated. You do not need to add any watermarks (visible or invisible) to your video to make it identifiable by this tech - it works with any video as is. And since it's pixel-by-pixel comparing, it can find matches even if the original video was strongly modified, for example recompressed, cropped, rewatermarked etc.

This thing is cool, it's just very server intensive - that's why they're not offering the whole lot of tubes with their monitoring services, and limit the amount of videos that you can submit for a fixed price. This thing is just too heavy on CPU usage to let it loose scanning all infringing sites comparing all finds with the database of a million protected vids and charge $10/month for that.

Aside from CPU issues, the cost of a license is still out of this world for most DFP apps - one more reason why all DFP services charge insane prices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...fingerprinting

Nautilus · 10-05-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

Let me get this right. You have to pay for partner account to get your ad there but alternatively you can also have a "user" upload full movies and have it replaced with your ads for free?

Good luck

This issue was already addressed - it turned out their Paid Content Partner Program is free for producers. PAID means that they (pornhub) are paying producers for their content usage in the form of sending joins to their sites.

Robbie · 10-05-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

This digital fingerprinting tech is covering all stuff including those videos already circulating. It's kinda comparing two videos pixel by pixel to see if they match, just more sophisticated. You do not need to add any watermarks (visible or invisible) to your video to make it identifiable by this tech - it works with any video as is. And since it's pixel-by-pixel comparing, it can find matches even if the original video was strongly modified, for example recompressed, cropped, rewatermarked etc.

This thing is cool, it's just very server intensive - that's why they're not offering the whole lot of tubes with their monitoring services, and limit the amount of videos that you can submit for a fixed price. This thing is just too heavy on CPU usage to let it loose scanning all infringing sites comparing all finds with the database of a million protected vids and charge $10/month for that.

Aside from CPU issues, the cost of a license is still out of this world for most DFP apps - one more reason why all DFP services charge insane prices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...fingerprinting

Well then that is cool. If it doesn't need to do anything at all to the actual vid but can just find it no matter what.

Still going to not be effective at all against the thousands of sites that aren't going to play by the rules as far as "switching out" videos for 3 minute trailers.

But it's definitely going to be effective for Top Bucks in regards to their content on Pornhub for sure. And for others who sign up for it, it will also work well in the Pornhub instance.

Where is all the load hitting anyway? Wouldn't PornHub have to have some video on file for instance to "replace" the offending video? Or how exactly does that work? Somehow Pornhub's server is working as well to replace the vid whether it's grabbing it from a content server or not, right?

So for this to work...the "hunter" server finds the offending vid. Then the pirate site has to be involved in the project and has to have a piece of the software configured on their server too to communicate and "replace" the pirated vid?

Or does it work via a pre-configured list that Pornhub will have inside the piece of software that they will have to put on their server?

Damn. No matter how you cut it, that's a lot of stuff going on there and is gonna require pirate sites to come onboard (which would be awesome if they would)

Seems like the digital fingerprinting would better be used to hunt and dmca and then to throw a flag if the video did not come down so you can follow with legal action...
And that sounds familiar...like something similar to what's already being done...some guy at remove your something or another...can't quite remember...

stever · 10-05-2010, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

This digital fingerprinting tech is covering all stuff including those videos already circulating. It's kinda comparing two videos pixel by pixel to see if they match, just more sophisticated. You do not need to add any watermarks (visible or invisible) to your video to make it identifiable by this tech - it works with any video as is. And since it's pixel-by-pixel comparing, it can find matches even if the original video was strongly modified, for example recompressed, cropped, rewatermarked etc.

This thing is cool, it's just very server intensive - that's why they're not offering the whole lot of tubes with their monitoring services, and limit the amount of videos that you can submit for a fixed price. This thing is just too heavy on CPU usage to let it loose scanning all infringing sites comparing all finds with the database of a million protected vids and charge $10/month for that.

Aside from CPU issues, the cost of a license is still out of this world for most DFP apps - one more reason why all DFP services charge insane prices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...fingerprinting

ah i see i read it wrong thanks
this would cost a shitload if you wanted to protect 500 scenes

but the partner program does it free? so long as you give 45% revshare? or does even the partner program have a cost?

RycEric · 10-05-2010, 12:26 PM

Vobile has some great technology. I've already seen their back-end architecture and it's impressive. They've invested millions into the infrastructure and there is no doubt in my mind they are effective. I'm not downgrading what they do at all.

I want to be clear though, this does not address all forms of piracy as we know it. It addresses one aspect in one area. Will all the tube sites join in? I have no idea. I do know that they charge for monitoring additional tube sites going forward. They would have to because not every tube site infrastructure is not the same. If I am wrong on that, please let me know.

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Well then that is cool. If it doesn't need to do anything at all to the actual vid but can just find it no matter what.

Still going to not be effective at all against the thousands of sites that aren't going to play by the rules as far as "switching out" videos for 3 minute trailers.

But it's definitely going to be effective for Top Bucks in regards to their content on Pornhub for sure. And for others who sign up for it, it will also work well in the Pornhub instance.

Where is all the load hitting anyway? Wouldn't PornHub have to have some video on file for instance to "replace" the offending video? Or how exactly does that work? Somehow Pornhub's server is working as well to replace the vid whether it's grabbing it from a content server or not, right?

So for this to work...the "hunter" server finds the offending vid. Then the pirate site has to be involved in the project and has to have a piece of the software configured on their server too to communicate and "replace" the pirated vid?

Or does it work via a pre-configured list that Pornhub will have inside the piece of software that they will have to put on their server?

Damn. No matter how you cut it, that's a lot of stuff going on there and is gonna require pirate sites to come onboard (which would be awesome if they would)

Seems like the digital fingerprinting would better be used to hunt and dmca and then to throw a flag if the video did not come down so you can follow with legal action...
And that sounds familiar...like something similar to what's already being done...some guy at remove your something or another...can't quite remember...

The FSC APAP program does both hunting and protecting at the same time.

You use a windows (or mac or server) app to create fingerprint data for a video of yours, and that app sends the data to Vobile to store in their database.

Then our tubes, every time someone uploads a video, creates the fingerprint data for a video, and sends it to Vobile. Vobile checks if it can find a match for this and returns an answer to us. This does not mean the whole video has to be there! You can fingerprint a 40 minute clip, and even a 3 minute section out of it will be matched to it! They also tell us what kind of length of a video is approved by the content owner, or if a specific video should be used instead of this one and so on...
CURRENTLY though, since the replacement things are still being worked out together with Vobile and FSC, we simply do not release the video if it is matched.

THIS part of the service is totally free to FSC members. (We pay for it on the tube level unless we replace the video with a promotional one.)

ADDITIONALLY to this, Vobile also SCANS, currently, 16 tube sites, and are looking into adding non tube sites too as far as I know. What they do there is actively download the new videos from the tubes which were not yet scanned and match it against their database. Once they find a video, they will DMCA it for you automatically, or show it in the admin for you to do so manually.

This active scanning is what costs FSC members around 450 USD (I think?) a month for a set amount of fingerprinted videos.

We ourself for example currently fingerprint around 50 of our newest clips only, for testing. If it works out, we might fingerprint all of our clips. The price at that point is a per-minute price of video content fingerprinted.

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 12:38 PM

Eric, regarding your question re the FBI, I can try to find out, but me myself I simply do not have this kind of information. Too big company for me to know every little detail, sorry.

Slutboat · 10-05-2010, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Please quote me defending piracy. Please quote me taking sides with the pirates. In the post you quote I was advising Markham not to libel people.

I do not run a pirate site. I do not support piracy. I do not support blackmailing IP addresses. I have no sympathy for a thief.

I just think people should spend money on things that gets them more sales and makes them more money.

I can draw you a picture if you are still struggling, love.

No one is struggling - we all have read your crap about "blackmail" and "you can't stop piracy"... you are the LONE RANGER when it comes to defending the rights of Pirates.. Why wouldn't we all come to the logical deduction that you are a Pirate yourself?

signupdamnit · 10-05-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Everyone out there can send us DMCA to get content removed which shows up on our tubes but should not be there in their opinion.

I actually own a couple tubes which also allow user submitted content. I don't have many problems with people uploading pirated stuff because I make it quite clear that it is not welcome. Then when I see it I immediately delete it and send a message to the user stating that if they do it again they will be banned. I also have an rss feed for the most recent videos which I scan regularly.

I don't understand why you could not have done such a thing all along without the fingerprinting. Earlier you hinted that tube owners should be required to use this technology as due diligence, however that seems most convenient for you. Where was your due diligence in using technologies which have existed all along?

And FWIW, I think the digital fingerprinting technology should be far cheaper and more open. I should not be required to work with any one organization or provider. It seems like more of a cash grab than anything to me. You should publish who exactly gets what percentage as opposed to stating mere generalities and anecdotes. Let's see exactly what the FSC and you get.

Quote:

I also disagree that we played any part in destroying the affiliate model.

It's very simple. One tube only offers 3 minute promotional content from a limited selection of partners. The other has thousands of 40 minute videos from all over the place -- many without the content owner's permission. Put up your own 40 minute videos and ruin your own conversions all you want. But you shouldn't be profiting off of other people's content without permission. Doing so has a ripple effect throughout the industry and yes, particularly affiliates.

notime · 10-05-2010, 12:54 PM

In June 2008, people would just laugh at such an idea and pass it away,
look:
http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/853255-anti-piracy-solution-found-online-dvds-philips.html

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luscious Media

So I can go into your members area, rip all of your best scenes, make a huge cumshot compilation, post it on my sites, make a ton of money off of selling ad space, pay you nothing and it's all ok because it's "just like a comedy central clip on YouTube or a music video or whatnot"? SWEET!

I'm all over it.

No you can not, because that would be illegal.

If however you had a tube and someone ELSE ripped all our best scenes, made a compilation, and posted it to your tube and you made a ton of money from it, then you are right, it's ok on your part, but we would DMCA it. If you then would not remove it, then it would not be ok again.

borked · 10-05-2010, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

This digital fingerprinting tech is covering all stuff including those videos already circulating. It's kinda comparing two videos pixel by pixel to see if they match, just more sophisticated. You do not need to add any watermarks (visible or invisible) to your video to make it identifiable by this tech - it works with any video as is. And since it's pixel-by-pixel comparing, it can find matches even if the original video was strongly modified, for example recompressed, cropped, rewatermarked etc.

This thing is cool, it's just very server intensive - that's why they're not offering the whole lot of tubes with their monitoring services, and limit the amount of videos that you can submit for a fixed price. This thing is just too heavy on CPU usage to let it loose scanning all infringing sites comparing all finds with the database of a million protected vids and charge $10/month for that.

Aside from CPU issues, the cost of a license is still out of this world for most DFP apps - one more reason why all DFP services charge insane prices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...fingerprinting

Well, it isn't actually pixel by pixel - it's actually based on binary hashing originally, to circumvent compression technologies which is stripping down an images components by converting RGB to YCbCr format for hash extraction eg

All derivations of fingerprint technology are based on this. The new stuff invovling videos is grouped hashing of multiple frames, but I don't believe any are based on hashing of the entire video, just a few hundred frames...

It's not really very CPU intensive though - what is (and bandwidth intensive too) is detecting it, once the video has "gone out"

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So we give you content so you can rape ratios and get advertising revenue from dating sites or joins on dating sites. De we get a cut of that money?

Paul, somehow you seem to think that the dating sites are THE BIGGEST THING EVER... They are not. It does not account for a major part of our revenue on the tubes. A big part, sure, but far less than half.

And no, you give us content so we send you sales. And a ton of people are doing it because it works. On top of that, I would put a watermark in the videos to get some typein branding also.

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Fabian. I took a look on your site and saw 2 more videos of girls being fucked by dogs. You don't flag the word dog as it's used in the tags term. So you're publishing obscene porn. The authorities have been notified.

Send me those two URLs, post them here or send via eMail if you prefer, [email protected]

If I get nothing from you regarding this, I will have to assume this is a lie.

gleem · 10-05-2010, 01:13 PM

Congrats, I consider myself pretty well versed in things technical, and after reading pages of posts....

I STILL DON'T GET IT!

sounds like you guys kissed & made up after court, and agreed on a way to run smaller producers out of biz . How's a producer with 1000 videos in his library making 500k off those vids a year gonna afford the service? He will have to sell if your deal catches on and who will be there to buyup the library at pennies on the dollar? hmmmm...

Somehow it just seems like it's still work with us and do it our way, or we will knock you over and take yours.

PXN · 10-05-2010, 01:22 PM

That's their goal to own a monopoly in this biz.

RycEric · 10-05-2010, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Eric, regarding your question re the FBI, I can try to find out, but me myself I simply do not have this kind of information. Too big company for me to know every little detail, sorry.

Who's too big of a company? You told me you worked with them directly. Please do not mislead folks.

Nautilus · 10-05-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Seems like the digital fingerprinting would better be used to hunt and dmca and then to throw a flag if the video did not come down so you can follow with legal action...

Yep it sure sounds like this, as the details of their "swap clips" program are still vague and unclear. But even if used for hunting&DMCAing only, this tech is still a big step and a big deal. Yes we can go on about hunting infringing clips just fine without it (as we used to over the years), but with it things would get so much easier and faster. In theory, if you have enough processing power, you can hit any motherfucking illegal tube with the DMCA 5 seconds after they posted your stolen clip (not 5 hours or 5 days - 5 secs!), and also auto file copies of this DMCA to all of their partners (hosting company, domain name registrar etc) to make sure they get more and more nervous about having such "business partners".

Yes this tech is aimed mostly at tubes and won't work that well with other forms of piracy (such as torrents and boards), but since it can stop all infringments COLD at tubes it is still worth it. We can deal with boards and torrents using other methods.

I'd say, at the current price of $500/month/16 tubes this service is worth it only for the biggest programs, and maybe for DVD companies too because all major tubes love their stuff, and having at least 16 of them covered is enough of a deal for DVD sellers. Yes I see some potential to it even with their current insane prices and very limited reach.

At $500/month/up to 1000 protected videos/all tubes covered, it'll be an option for many of the middle sized programs.

At $100-150/month/up to 10000 protected videos/all tubes covered, that will become a mass product for the adult industry where every one and their dog will be subscribed to.

Quote:

And that sounds familiar...like something similar to what's already being done...some guy at remove your something or another...can't quite remember...

SiMpLe · 10-05-2010, 01:34 PM

Nathen since you deleted the video on pornhub, I will just leave this here and ask the question again. Can you answer this for me

"" Why doesn't Manwin just stop taking user submitted content. Trust me you can tell the difference between ama and studio. And if you can't....

The best is when I find my stuff on your tubes with the 2257 slate before the scene or our watermark clearly visable on the bottom right. Why accept that submission? ""

SiMpLe · 10-05-2010, 01:37 PM

WOW looking at the cap I made you can REALLY tell who's content that is imo - My logo is the biggest thing on the page!! How could you all not see that and accept it lmao

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiMpLe

WOW looking at the cap I made you can REALLY tell who's content that is imo - My logo is the biggest thing on the page!! How could you all not see that and accept it lmao

I am not your lawyer, or rather, your company's lawyer. So I am not here to explain DMCA law to you, sorry.

Also, this thread is not about DMCA and why we do what we do.

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RycEric

Who's too big of a company? You told me you worked with them directly. Please do not mislead folks.

Uhm, I said "we"... so "we" are too big of a company... You think when I talk about myself I say "we"??

We = Manwin.

PR_Dave · 10-05-2010, 01:48 PM

You guys should just turn off user submitting, problem solved.

DWB · 10-05-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

it's actually based on binary hashing originally, to circumvent compression technologies which is stripping down an images components by converting RGB to YCbCr format for hash extraction eg

V_RocKs · 10-05-2010, 01:53 PM

OK... Asking Pink about this one...

Go here:
http://www.spankwire.com/Couples-Sed...r/video217968/

Your video in its entirety and no ads for you anywhere.

How is this making you revshared money with the FSC?

SiMpLe · 10-05-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

I am not your lawyer, or rather, your company's lawyer. So I am not here to explain DMCA law to you, sorry.

Also, this thread is not about DMCA and why we do what we do.

My question to you is why does Manwin accept this type of content when it's clearly pirated. Or are you simply stating your companies model is to simply hide behind the flawed DMCA law.

Your about to show your true colors here Nathan - Bring it.

SiMpLe · 10-05-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PR_Dave

You guys should just turn off user submitting, problem solved.

winrar

V_RocKs · 10-05-2010, 02:00 PM

Actually... Nathan has already stated his intent to use the flaws in the law to make money on other peoples content. He is asking that everyone else also create a tube and use his content so its all bro hugs around.

Nautilus · 10-05-2010, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

Well, it isn't actually pixel by pixel

It surely isn't

But try telling people that it's actually based on binary hashing originally, to circumvent compression technologies which is stripping down an images components by converting RGB to YCbCr format for hash extraction eg, and you'll understand why I described it as pixel by pixel comparing of the two images or videos.

Once people get the idea, they can understand it further, that it doesn't have to be a pixel by pixel thing, you can do something more smart and less CPU hungry. But not the other way around - I tried to explain what the DFP is several times to several different people and it never worked unless I started of by saying "well it's like comparing two images pixel by pixel to see if they match".

To add to the confusion, most people tend to think that DFP is the thing that Hollywood uses to watermark their new releases to see what cinema it leaked from to torrents. And you need to explain that it aint so too, digital watermarking and digital fingerprinting are different things.

And yet another group of people think that DFP is something similar to MD5 hash signature and could be easily circumvented by making small changes to a file.

By no means DFP is an easy sell

Quote:

It's not really very CPU intensive though - what is (and bandwidth intensive too) is detecting it, once the video has "gone out"

Yep that's what I meant - detecting videos is CPU intensive, because you need to compare every downloaded video with every protected video that is in your database (it could be millions of the protected videos for all I know, now go compare that with every single tube vid that is out there).

BTW, if you have any good DFP links, please post them either here on in your educational thread.

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiMpLe

My question to you is why does Manwin accept this type of content when it's clearly pirated. Or are you simply stating your companies model is to simply hide behind the flawed DMCA law.

Your about to show your true colors here Nathan - Bring it.

simple,

I have no way of knowing if the uploader does or does not have the rights to do so. If the uploader claims he does, however he claims he got them, he has the right to upload it. Unless we have "red flag knowledge".

You can call this hiding behind a "flawed" law if you want. I think its not a flawed law, it exists for a very good reason. We have a lot of people uploading content that truly is theirs. We own a lot of content licenses ourselves. We own a lot of exclusive content ourselves.

@V_Rocks, 7th July, this is from even before we bought Spankwire in the first place... not sure what you are trying to say...

V_RocKs · 10-05-2010, 02:06 PM

http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=718901646
45 minutes of another customers videos and no possibly way to give the owner their revshare.

V_RocKs · 10-05-2010, 02:07 PM

I am wondering what the point of this technology is if it doesn't seem to be working... I looked at the customer list of the FSC content owners and I am seeing tons of their stuff in full size on your tubes. I thought this was automatic?

If it isn't then what did it fix? What is the point of it?

Allison · 10-05-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borked

May I ask the OP what algorithm they are using to generate their visual hashing db for cross-checking?

And don't come back with "it's proprietary" since all this technology is public domain having been developped by public-funded researchers...

I have all 28 of the major papers describing different ways and each has their major advantages and major flaws....

Just the paper's authors names is all I require

thanks

From Vobile: "Sounds like he is confusing fingerprinting technology, which is what we use, with hashing, which is an entirely different technology. "

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V_RocKs

I am wondering what the point of this technology is if it doesn't seem to be working... I looked at the customer list of the FSC content owners and I am seeing tons of their stuff in full size on your tubes. I thought this was automatic?

If it isn't then what did it fix? What is the point of it?

V, _READ_ the press release. It says "has agreed to implement ? and is already testing ?"... where does it say anything about it already running at 100% right now on all our tubes?

RycEric · 10-05-2010, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

Uhm, I said "we"... so "we" are too big of a company... You think when I talk about myself I say "we"??

We = Manwin.

Dude.. you just said you work direct with the FBI. I have several on speed dial. That's bullshit.

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RycEric

Dude.. you just said you work direct with the FBI. I have several on speed dial. That's bullshit.

uhm.. Eric, I said _WE_.. what is so hard to understand here? You think I call the FBI myself? You kidding me or something?

Allison · 10-05-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Allison, something I'm kinda wondering about...
I DO protect my stuff. Been doing it for a while. Haven't had even one of my high res/high quality streams ripped and put up on a pirate site. That's after two years (and dozens of "experts" on GFY telling my it wouldn't work and it would be hacked and blah-blah).

But the ongoing problem still concerns my older stuff that's out there. The stuff I put out on .wmv in the first place and that I foolishly released on DVD. I have to keep removeyourcontent searching for that all the time because it comes up over and over and over.

How does "fingerprinting" help you in that way? For instance...Pink Visual already has a huge DVD catalog out there. And tons of stuff that has been pirated, I'd dare say your entire catalog.

I'm assuming that the "fingerprinting" will only have effect on the files that you NOW have had processed (if someone rips one and uploads the "Fingerprinted" one). But everything up until now is still out there (your members areas, your DVD rips, etc.)

Also, it would seem to me that as long as you're still releasing hard copy DVD's and not taking measures to keep your content in the members area on the paysites...then any of the thousands of bit torrent, rapidshare, megaupload, fileshare, and tubes that don't play by the rules are still going to be pirating you and devaluing your content?

What's your specific strategy for Top Bucks to combat those aspects (which are even more damaging than even Pornhub)?

As a long time affiliate of Top Bucks I'd kinda like to know if there is a chance that I can start converting the sites again.

By the way...does Kevin still own Top Bucks? Last I heard his name was a couple of years ago when he was going to meet some friends of mine down in South America. Just curious if it's still his company and how he's doing. Haven't seen him in person since 2002.

Hi Robbie,

Whether it's DVD content, WMV content or any other form that was previously release the same exact benefits exist.

So we took our entire library on our server side (other companies could ship drives or DVD's if they wanted to I believe) & had a finger print created on the fly. The finger print is not stored in the video or DVD file, it's a separate file stored in Vobile's database.

We got all our finger printing around March of 2010 and it took just a few days. We also now automatically add a finger print every time we update our sites with new content.

So now let's say a scenario where a DVD I released in 2006 gets ripped & uploaded to one of the tubes in the APAP program, it will be flagged as a match & completely removed immediately before any views or if I'm participating in the monetization, it will be flagged & I would have set some rule to replace it with a promo clip & maybe an overlay ad.

I'm assuming you either have copies of the DVD's you release or have the WMV files on hand. That's all you need to have a finger print created of your content. It's just a file that maps the visual and audio components of your video that is not stored in the video or DVD file at all.

You mentioned RemoveYourContent & their services and the answer to that is you would probably still want to use them for other sites who are not participating in the APAP system if you are having issues with infringement elsewhere.

~Alli

RycEric · 10-05-2010, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathan

uhm.. Eric, I said _WE_.. what is so hard to understand here? You think I call the FBI myself? You kidding me or something?

I still call bullshit. Name the division and I'll drop it. Otherwise, continue to use that as a selling tool and see how far that gets you.

Nautilus · 10-05-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiMpLe

WOW looking at the cap I made you can REALLY tell who's content that is imo - My logo is the biggest thing on the page!! How could you all not see that and accept it lmao

BTW, there's no DMCA for trademarks. If your logo is your registered trademark, you can easily get their asses busted, UGC or not.

V_RocKs · 10-05-2010, 02:21 PM

I have called the FBI myself. The first time was kind of a nervous jittery thing. Turns out they are people too. The next few times was much easier.

Allison · 10-05-2010, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nautilus

This digital fingerprinting tech is covering all stuff including those videos already circulating. It's kinda comparing two videos pixel by pixel to see if they match, just more sophisticated. You do not need to add any watermarks (visible or invisible) to your video to make it identifiable by this tech - it works with any video as is. And since it's pixel-by-pixel comparing, it can find matches even if the original video was strongly modified, for example recompressed, cropped, rewatermarked etc.

This thing is cool, it's just very server intensive - that's why they're not offering the whole lot of tubes with their monitoring services, and limit the amount of videos that you can submit for a fixed price. This thing is just too heavy on CPU usage to let it loose scanning all infringing sites comparing all finds with the database of a million protected vids and charge $10/month for that.

Aside from CPU issues, the cost of a license is still out of this world for most DFP apps - one more reason why all DFP services charge insane prices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...fingerprinting

Thank you!

Nathan · 10-05-2010, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RycEric

I still call bullshit. Name the division and I'll drop it. Otherwise, continue to use that as a selling tool and see how far that gets you.

Where have I used this as a "selling tool"? You confuse me Eric, really...

Think whatever you want, see if I care.

10-05-2010, 11:20 AM	#155
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	Zyber, the "ignore" feature is something I never used until the other day. I finally realized that some people just don't have anything of value to add to a conversation. And the ones that don't I just put them on "ignore" It's been the best thing I've done on GFY. I always thought: "Maybe this person or that person will have something of value or relevance one day" But now I'm realizing that some folks are just here to argue and give uneducated opinion. Of course I don't put the ones who are funny and make me laugh on "ignore" But the ones who don't have much personality to begin with and then insist on making grandiose "know-it-all" statements about areas of the business that they have zero experience in....well, it's a MUCH better experience here at GFY without them. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

10-05-2010, 11:22 AM	#156
stever Confirmed User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,715	so as of now only 9 tubes are participating? which doesnt really make this worth it since most of the pirating is happening on torrents/forums/etc as for the partner program do you really think that tube sites will want to have a trailer overwrite a full scene that has a digital video fingerprint? when they prefer to have full length or longer videos? this goes against their whole business model and would hurt their traffic if all videos uploaded became trailers and lastly not sure if this was answered about robbie's question what happens to all the stuff that is already circulating out there? this cannot be protected? and future dvd releases? __________________ Brutal Bucks has extreme sites that convert!

10-05-2010, 12:26 PM	#163
RycEric Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 1,313	Vobile has some great technology. I've already seen their back-end architecture and it's impressive. They've invested millions into the infrastructure and there is no doubt in my mind they are effective. I'm not downgrading what they do at all. I want to be clear though, this does not address all forms of piracy as we know it. It addresses one aspect in one area. Will all the tube sites join in? I have no idea. I do know that they charge for monitoring additional tube sites going forward. They would have to because not every tube site infrastructure is not the same. If I am wrong on that, please let me know. Last edited by RycEric; 10-05-2010 at 12:27 PM..

10-05-2010, 12:38 PM	#165
Nathan Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,108	Eric, regarding your question re the FBI, I can try to find out, but me myself I simply do not have this kind of information. Too big company for me to know every little detail, sorry. __________________ "Think about it a little more and you'll agree with me, because you're smart and I'm right." - Charlie Munger

10-05-2010, 01:13 PM	#173
gleem Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sunny Land Posts: 5,593	Congrats, I consider myself pretty well versed in things technical, and after reading pages of posts.... I STILL DON'T GET IT! sounds like you guys kissed & made up after court, and agreed on a way to run smaller producers out of biz . How's a producer with 1000 videos in his library making 500k off those vids a year gonna afford the service? He will have to sell if your deal catches on and who will be there to buyup the library at pennies on the dollar? hmmmm... Somehow it just seems like it's still work with us and do it our way, or we will knock you over and take yours. __________________ Contact me: \\// E: webmaster /at/ unprofessional.com

10-05-2010, 12:54 PM	#168
notime Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: cyberspace Posts: 8,019	In June 2008, people would just laugh at such an idea and pass it away, look: http://www.gfy.com/fucking-around-and-business-discussion/853255-anti-piracy-solution-found-online-dvds-philips.html

10-05-2010, 01:22 PM	#174
PXN Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,548	That's their goal to own a monopoly in this biz.

10-05-2010, 01:34 PM	#177
SiMpLe Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Porn Central - California Posts: 3,221	Nathen since you deleted the video on pornhub, I will just leave this here and ask the question again. Can you answer this for me "" Why doesn't Manwin just stop taking user submitted content. Trust me you can tell the difference between ama and studio. And if you can't.... The best is when I find my stuff on your tubes with the 2257 slate before the scene or our watermark clearly visable on the bottom right. Why accept that submission? "" __________________ Sean Holland Vice President OrbitalPay / Global Electronic Technology (GET) SKYPE: iam.sean ::: sholland at orbitalpay.com 888-775-1500

10-05-2010, 01:37 PM	#178
SiMpLe Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Porn Central - California Posts: 3,221	WOW looking at the cap I made you can REALLY tell who's content that is imo - My logo is the biggest thing on the page!! How could you all not see that and accept it lmao __________________ Sean Holland Vice President OrbitalPay / Global Electronic Technology (GET) SKYPE: iam.sean ::: sholland at orbitalpay.com 888-775-1500

10-05-2010, 01:48 PM	#181
PR_Dave Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Posts: 2,792	You guys should just turn off user submitting, problem solved. __________________ www.PIMPROLL.com

10-05-2010, 01:53 PM	#183
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,391	OK... Asking Pink about this one... Go here: http://www.spankwire.com/Couples-Sed...r/video217968/ Your video in its entirety and no ads for you anywhere. How is this making you revshared money with the FSC?

10-05-2010, 02:00 PM	#186
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,391	Actually... Nathan has already stated his intent to use the flaws in the law to make money on other peoples content. He is asking that everyone else also create a tube and use his content so its all bro hugs around.

10-05-2010, 02:06 PM	#189
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,391	http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=718901646 45 minutes of another customers videos and no possibly way to give the owner their revshare.

10-05-2010, 02:07 PM	#190
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,391	I am wondering what the point of this technology is if it doesn't seem to be working... I looked at the customer list of the FSC content owners and I am seeing tons of their stuff in full size on your tubes. I thought this was automatic? If it isn't then what did it fix? What is the point of it?

10-05-2010, 02:21 PM	#198
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,391	I have called the FBI myself. The first time was kind of a nervous jittery thing. Turns out they are people too. The next few times was much easier.