Pilot to TSA: ?No Groping Me and No Naked Photos?

[u-Bob]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig11/roberts-m1.1.1.html

My name is Michael Roberts, and I am a pilot for ExpressJet Airlines, Inc., based in Houston. This morning as I attempted to pass through the security line for my commute to work I was denied access to the secured area of the terminal building at Memphis International Airport. I have passed through the same line roughly once per week for the past four and a half years without incident. Today, however, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) agents at this checkpoint were using one of the new Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) systems that are currently being deployed at airports across the nation. These are the controversial devices featured by the media in recent months, albeit sparingly, which enable screeners to see beneath people?s clothing to an extremely graphic and intrusive level of detail (virtual strip searching). Travelers refusing this indignity may instead be physically frisked by a government security agent until the agent is satisfied to release them on their way in what is being touted as an ?alternative option? to AIT. The following is a somewhat hastily drafted account of my experience this morning.

As I loaded my bags onto the X-ray scanner belt, an agent told me to remove my shoes and send them through as well, which I?ve not normally been required to do when passing through the standard metal detectors in uniform. When I questioned her, she said it was necessary to remove my shoes for the AIT scanner. I explained that I did not wish to participate in the AIT program, so she told me I could keep my shoes and directed me through the metal detector that had been roped off. She then called somewhat urgently to the agents on the other side: ?We got an opt-out!? and also reported the ?opt-out? into her handheld radio. On the other side I was stopped by another agent and informed that because I had ?opted out? of AIT screening, I would have to go through secondary screening. I asked for clarification to be sure he was talking about frisking me, which he confirmed, and I declined. At this point he and another agent explained the TSA?s latest decree, saying I would not be permitted to pass without showing them my naked body, and how my refusal to do so had now given them cause to put their hands on me as I evidently posed a threat to air transportation security (this, of course, is my nutshell synopsis of the exchange). I asked whether they did in fact suspect I was concealing something after I had passed through the metal detector, or whether they believed that I had made any threats or given other indications of malicious designs to warrant treating me, a law-abiding fellow citizen, so rudely. None of that was relevant, I was told. They were just doing their job.

Eventually the airport police were summoned. Several officers showed up and we essentially repeated the conversation above. When it became clear that we had reached an impasse, one of the more sensible officers and I agreed that any further conversation would be pointless at this time. I then asked whether I was free to go. I was not. Another officer wanted to see my driver?s license. When I asked why, he said they needed information for their report on this ?incident? ? my name, address, phone number, etc. I recited my information for him, until he asked for my supervisor?s name and number at the airline. Why did he need that, I asked. For the report, he answered. I had already given him the primary phone number at my company?s headquarters. When I asked him what the Chief Pilot in Houston had to do with any of this, he either refused or was simply unable to provide a meaningful explanation. I chose not to divulge my supervisor?s name as I preferred to be the first to inform him of the situation myself. In any event, after a brief huddle with several other officers, my interrogator told me I was free to go.

As I approached the airport exit, however, I was stopped again by a man whom I believe to be the airport police chief, though I can?t say for sure. He said I still needed to speak with an investigator who was on his way over. I asked what sort of investigator. A TSA investigator, he said. As I was by this time looking eagerly forward to leaving the airport, I had little patience for the additional vexation. I?d been denied access to my workplace and had no other business keeping me there.

?Am I under arrest?? I asked.

?No, he just needs to ask you some more questions.?

?But I was told I?m free to go. So? am I being detained now, or what??

?We just need to hold you here so he can??

?Hold me in what capacity?? I insisted.

?Detain you while we??

Okay, so now they were detaining me as I was leaving the airport facility.

We stood there awkwardly, waiting for the investigator while he kept an eye on me. Being chatty by nature, I asked his opinion of what new procedures might be implemented if someday someone were to smuggle an explosive device in his or her rectum or a similar orifice. Ever since would-be terrorist Richard Reid set his shoes on fire, travelers have been required to remove their footwear in the security line. And the TSA has repeatedly attempted to justify these latest measures by citing Northwest flight 253, on which Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab scorched his genitalia. Where, then, would the evolution of these policies lead next?

?Do you want them to board your plane?? he asked.

?No, but I understand there are other, better ways to keep them off. Besides, at this point I?m more concerned with the greater threat to our rights and liberties as a free society.?

?Yeah, I know,? he said. And then, to my amazement, he continued, ?But somebody?s already taken those away.?

?Maybe they have,? I conceded, watching the throng of passengers waiting their turn to get virtually naked for the federal security guards.

As a side note, I cannot refrain here from expressing my dismay and heartbreak over a civil servant?s personal resignation to the loss of civil liberty among the people by whom he is employed to protect and serve. If he no longer affirms the rights and freedom of his fellow citizens, one can only wonder exactly what he has in view as the purpose of his profession.

The TSA investigator arrived and asked for my account of the situation. I explained that the agents weren?t allowing me to pass through the checkpoint. He told me he had been advised that I was refusing security screening, to which I replied that I had willingly walked through the metal detector with no alarms, the same way I always do when commuting to work. He then briefed me on the recent screening policy changes and, apparently confused, asked whether they would be a problem for me. I stated that I did indeed have a problem with the infringement of my civil rights and liberty.

His reply: ?That?s irrelevant.?

It wasn?t irrelevant to me. We continued briefly in the conversation until I recognized that we were essentially repeating the same discussion I?d already had with the other officers and agents standing by. With that realization, I told him I did not wish to keep going around and around with them and asked whether he had anything else to say to me. Yes, he said he did, marching indignantly over to a table nearby with an air as though he were about to do something drastic.

?I need to get your information for my report,? he demanded.

?The officer over there just took my information for his report. I?m sure you could just get it from him.?

?No, I have to document everything separately and send it to TSOC. That?s the Transportation Security Operations Center where we report??

?I?m familiar with TSOC,? I assured him. ?In fact, I?ve actually taught the TSA mandated security portion of our training program at the airline.?

?Well, if you?re an instructor, then you should know better,? he barked.

?Really? What do you mean I ?should know better?? Are you scolding me? Have I done something wrong??

?I?m not saying you?ve done something wrong. But you have to go through security screening if you want to enter the facility.?

?Understood. I?ve been going through security screening right here in this line for five years and never blown up an airplane, broken any laws, made any threats, or had a government agent call my boss in Houston. And you guys have never tried to touch me or see me naked that whole time. But, if that?s what it?s come to now, I don?t want to enter the facility that badly.?

Finishing up, he asked me to confirm that I had been offered secondary screening as an alternative ?option? to ATS, and that I had refused it. I confirmed. Then he asked whether I?d ?had words? with any of the agents. I asked what he meant by that and he said he wanted to know whether there had been ?any exchange of words.? I told him that yes, we spoke. He then turned to the crowd of officers and asked whether I had been abusive toward any of them when they wanted to create images of my naked body and touch me in an unwelcome manner. I didn?t hear what they said in reply, but he returned and finally told me I was free to leave the airport.

As it turned out, they did reach the chief pilot?s office in Houston before I was able to. Shortly after I got home, my boss called and said they had been contacted by the TSA. I suppose my employment status at this point can best be described as on hold.

[u-Bob]

part 2

It’s probably fairly obvious here that I am outraged. This took place today, 15 October 2010. Anyone who reads this is welcome to contact me for confirmation of the details or any additional information I can provide. The dialog above is quoted according to my best recollection, without embellishment or significant alteration except for the sake of clarity. I would greatly appreciate any recommendations for legal counsel – preferably a firm with a libertarian bent and experience resisting this kind of tyrannical madness. This is not a left or right, red or blue state issue. The very bedrock of our way of life in this country is under attack from within. Please don’t let it be taken from us without a fight.

Michael S. Roberts
[email protected]

[Machete_]

The funny thing is, they are looking for something on him he could use to crash the plane.

And he's the pilot.

[IllTestYourGirls]

This says it all right here.

?No, but I understand there are other, better ways to keep them off. Besides, at this point I?m more concerned with the greater threat to our rights and liberties as a free society.?

?Yeah, I know,? he said. And then, to my amazement, he continued, ?But somebody?s already taken those away.?

[The Dawg]

Wow dude was cool through all of that. Its fucked up that they make you feel like a criminal when you want to fly. Nowadays its so much of a hassle to catch a plane, so I only fly when I HAVE TO.

[MaDalton]

oh, come on, it's just for our safety - who needs personal freedom???

[Amputate Your Head]

simple solution: don't fly.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by The Dawg

Wow dude was cool through all of that. Its fucked up that they make you feel like a criminal when you want to fly. Nowadays its so much of a hassle to catch a plane, so I only fly when I HAVE TO.

I have not flown since my young child got taken aside and searched by the TSA, I will never fly again.

[Ethersync]

Originally Posted by Machete_

The funny thing is, they are looking for something on him he could use to crash the plane.

And he's the pilot.

Yeah, very good point actually.

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

This says it all right here.

Yeah, sadly.

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

simple solution: don't fly.

Not always that simple.

[Rankings]

no matter what, when i board a plane, i want to know that everyone is clear, pilot and all

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by The Dawg

Wow dude was cool through all of that. Its fucked up that they make you feel like a criminal when you want to fly. Nowadays its so much of a hassle to catch a plane, so I only fly when I HAVE TO.

Same here. I fly a lot less than I used to. I take the high speed train if possible and if I have no other option than to fly, I avoid airports like London Heathrow because of their totally clueless security personnel.

You want me to go through a naked pictures scanner and take off my shoes, no problem, you just lost a paying customer.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Ethersync

Not always that simple.

it is that simple.
in fact, not flying is much easier than flying now days.

my last two trips to Vegas, i drove. 8-9 hours each way. Fuck the TSA.

[IllTestYourGirls]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

it is that simple.
in fact, not flying is much easier than flying now days.

my last two trips to Vegas, i drove. 8-9 hours each way. Fuck the TSA.

Would only take me 44 hours

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by 2bet

no matter what, when i board a plane, i want to know that everyone is clear, pilot and all

sorry, but you're already brainwashed

Originally Posted by u-Bob

Same here. I fly a lot less than I used to. I take the high speed train if possible and if I have no other option than to fly, I avoid airports like London Heathrow because of their totally clueless security personnel.

You want me to go through a naked pictures scanner and take off my shoes, no problem, you just lost a paying customer.

fortunately in europe it's a lot more relaxed. i usually fly from vienna and never had any problems on european flights. 4 weeks ago when i wanted to show my ID they even told me they don't need that.

and taking off shoes is no issue for me - but getting scanned is. and it's pretty obvious that it brings no extra security either.

[marketsmart]

the guy is a cry baby... choose another line of work if you dont like the security measures...

i think pilots should go through the same screening as passengers...





.

[Evil Chris]

TSA take their jobs way too seriously.

[u-Bob]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

fortunately in europe it's a lot more relaxed. i usually fly from vienna and never had any problems on european flights.

Never had any problems with London either, until they went all TSA style... Mostly flying out of Paris and Frankfurt now...

[Evil Chris]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

the guy is a cry baby... choose another line of work if you dont like the security measures...

i think pilots should go through the same screening as passengers...


.

His point is that NOBODY should have to go through such indignant screening.

[Machete_]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

simple solution: don't fly.

Yeah but the guy works as a pilot.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

TSA take their jobs way too seriously.

they tried to ass probe my dogs when I took them on a flight. (truth)

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Machete_

Yeah but the guy works as a pilot.

is he a slave?

he obviously feels as I do about the TSA, he can always quit and find work somewhere else.

[MaDalton]

some of you are obviously missing the point: he's the pilot, he can crash the plane anytime he wants.

[Sly]

I agree with his opinion... but arguing with a TSA agent over national security laws is like arguing with a McDonald's burger flipper over the amount of pickles they put on a quarter pounder.

[charlie g]

For christ sakes, he doesnt want to be seen naked. boo fucking hoo. Must have a really schmall penacle! Next time, he should drop trowel and fluff up his nuts in front of everyone.

[BloodFart]

Originally Posted by charlie g

For christ sakes, he doesnt want to be seen naked. boo fucking hoo. Must have a really schmall penacle!

Wtf? I don't want cops just tearing thru my house looking at whatever, guess that means i have a "really schmall housacle"?
idiot

[Phoenix]

ill only respect him if he pushes this issue all the way.

otherwise hes just someone who snapped at work, and then went home and did nothing else about what he perceived to be a great crime against the people.

that quote from the cop was crazy though

[cykoe6]

It is really sad to see how far we have fallen. Bureaucrats with unchecked power is the worst of all possible scenarios.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by charlie g

For christ sakes, he doesnt want to be seen naked. boo fucking hoo. Must have a really schmall penacle! Next time, he should drop trowel and fluff up his nuts in front of everyone.

let me guess, you were first in line to hand over your privacy when they came for it.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Machete_

The funny thing is, they are looking for something on him he could use to crash the plane.

And he's the pilot.

yea. i was wondering about that myself

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by Evil Chris

His point is that NOBODY should have to go through such indignant screening.

guess what... NOBODY has to... just dont fucking fly or fly private....

problem solved...






.

[96ukssob]

this is what happens when you want more security, you give up a lot of your rights. However this is a REALLY bad mix as TSA agents are literally a step above mall cops with their training.

they fell they have all the power in the world and love to fuck with anyone they can. I travel frequently and I have my little secret ways of doing things. Dont stand out in the crowd, don't wear baggy clothes and bring as little on the plane with you as you can, but make sure to bring at least SOMETHING! Traveling with no carry on is a big red flag for TSA... pack some random shit like headphones and a magazine.

be nice to everyone, ask them how they are doing, comment on the weather or the local sports teams. when it comes time for screening, get in the line where there are no obese white males working, or anyone with a crew cut... they are all want to be super cops and love to pick people out. likewise, stay from younger women of any race.

when boarding the plane (assuming you make it through security) the boarding flight attendant has the final say if anyone can be on the plane. notice how they (mostly a woman) will say hello to everyone? make eye contact, smile and ask how she is doing. Ive read a number of stories of people getting pulled of planes because the flight attendant thought they were a risk.

my

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Machete_

The funny thing is, they are looking for something on him he could use to crash the plane.

And he's the pilot.

[Robbie]

Jesus. I have felt the same way as that pilot when I get on an airplane.

I'm PAYING these fucks to transport me somewhere. They should be kissing my ass and treating me like a paying customer. Instead they allow the TSA to act like Nazi's. They search you and everything you have. And you can't lock your checked luggage...and whatever you do DON'T put anything valuable in your checked luggage because they now search every piece of luggage and go through your personal belongings.

Total horseshit. And I'm unconvinced that any of that stops a "terrorist" from doing anything.

I remember when I was a kid that it seemed like a plane was hijacked every week. I'm serious. In the 1970's there literally seemed like armed gunmen hijacked planes on a weekly basis.

But NONE of this stupidity was implemented at airports.

They already have a locked steel door on the pilots cockpit now. So nobody can do a "9-11" again anyway.

They could also put other measures in place to detect any explosives.

But no...they use this shit to search for drugs! And to see if you're traveling with lots of cash. And everything else they can think of to spy on people and "catch" them doing stuff.

All to TRAVEL?

I'd love to see a high speed rail system in this country and put the goddamn airlines out of the business of travel within the country and see them only used for international travel. But the airline lobbyists will never let that happen.

[MaDalton]

Originally Posted by bossku69

this is what happens when you want more security, you give up a lot of your rights. However this is a REALLY bad mix as TSA agents are literally a step above mall cops with their training.

they fell they have all the power in the world and love to fuck with anyone they can. I travel frequently and I have my little secret ways of doing things. Dont stand out in the crowd, don't wear baggy clothes and bring as little on the plane with you as you can, but make sure to bring at least SOMETHING! Traveling with no carry on is a big red flag for TSA... pack some random shit like headphones and a magazine.

be nice to everyone, ask them how they are doing, comment on the weather or the local sports teams. when it comes time for screening, get in the line where there are no obese white males working, or anyone with a crew cut... they are all want to be super cops and love to pick people out. likewise, stay from younger women of any race.

when boarding the plane (assuming you make it through security) the boarding flight attendant has the final say if anyone can be on the plane. notice how they (mostly a woman) will say hello to everyone? make eye contact, smile and ask how she is doing. Ive read a number of stories of people getting pulled of planes because the flight attendant thought they were a risk.

my

spot on, especially on the obese white males and young women

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by Robbie

And you can't lock your checked luggage...

you can use TSA approved locks that they have the master key for...






.

[Gerco]

This is absolutely retarded. The guy's the frick'en pilot... That tells me that he's been checked better than just about anyone at the airport to begin with. HArd to believe that he couldn't provide his credentials and be off.

TSA= totally stupid asshats.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

you can use TSA approved locks that they have the master key for...

Amazing isn't it? Nobody else would be able to get to your luggage EXCEPT the TSA. And they are the ones robbing people blind in the back. And NOTHING you can do about it.

These are airlines. Not CIA headquarters. It's a glorified bus ride with wings. I can guarantee you that they are spending the majority of their time looking for drugs. They never could REALLY search people or go through their belongings before. It was hit and miss.

But NOW, they can use "terrorism" to search everything. Hell, they even stopped the pilot from leaving the airport when he wasn't even getting on a plane anymore!!!

How fucking "nazi" is that? Police state anybody?

[JFK]

Originally Posted by MaDalton

oh, come on, it's just for our safety - who needs personal freedom???

yeah thanks, its just stressful as hell having to deal with all the screening assholes

[Sly]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Amazing isn't it? Nobody else would be able to get to your luggage EXCEPT the TSA. And they are the ones robbing people blind in the back. And NOTHING you can do about it.

These are airlines. Not CIA headquarters. It's a glorified bus ride with wings. I can guarantee you that they are spending the majority of their time looking for drugs. They never could REALLY search people or go through their belongings before. It was hit and miss.

But NOW, they can use "terrorism" to search everything. Hell, they even stopped the pilot from leaving the airport when he wasn't even getting on a plane anymore!!!

How fucking "nazi" is that? Police state anybody?

I agree that it's absurd but what drug cases have you heard of based on your proposed method?

[D Ghost]

The point here is the loss of civil liberties and it's getting worse. The loss of the the right to NOT be touched or seen be an agent.

[Tom_PM]

How soon until we saw the heads off of employees who refuse to be searched naked?

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Sly

I agree with his opinion... but arguing with a TSA agent over national security laws is like arguing with a McDonald's burger flipper over the amount of pickles they put on a quarter pounder.

That's a dumb fuck analogy since I always ask to hold the pickles and they
gladly do it every time and if they fuck up and forget and I complain they give
me the burger for free.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by PR_Tom

How soon until we saw the heads off of employees who refuse to be searched naked?

someone call my name?

[JFK]

Originally Posted by cykoe6

It is really sad to see how far we have fallen. Bureaucrats with unchecked power is the worst of all possible scenarios.

and they hire IDIOTS, as someone else had said, one step above mall cops

So I'm at one of the checks in Europe and I happen to get this fucking rookie, he's picking tru everything in my camera bag, which pisses me off in thew 1st place, lifts up some chargers and lo and behold he comes accross a mini vibrator

They were handing them out in Miami at the meet n greet Vivid was I think, u could wear it around your neck
I put it in the camera bag and then totally forgot about it.

So he says whats this ? I said its a dildo, by this time the idiot is getting on my nerves, is it for male or female he asks... female I say , so he puts it in a tray with the camera , to be checked by his supervisor,

He's sort of snickering ..... the super comes over takes a cursory look and sort of waves it off, as its nothing, but the ididot purposely lifts the dildo out and shows it to him, the super asks whats this ?

By this time I'm boiling ... I said ITS A FUCKING DILDO rather loudly......... he said calm down sir .... go ......

Both of them scurry back to the post and I notice this elderly worman smirking as I walk by

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by JFK

and they hire IDIOTS, as someone else had said, one step above mall cops

So I'm at one of the checks in Europe and I happen to get this fucking rookie, he's picking tru everything in my camera bag, which pisses me off in thew 1st place, lifts up some chargers and lo and behold he comes accross a mini vibrator

They were handing them out in Miami at the meet n greet Vivid was I think, u could wear it around your neck
I put it in the camera bag and then totally forgot about it.

So he says whats this ? I said its a dildo, by this time the idiot is getting on my nerves, is it for male or female he asks... female I say , so he puts it in a tray with the camera , to be checked by his supervisor,

He's sort of snickering ..... the super comes over takes a cursory look and sort of waves it off, as its nothing, but the ididot purposely lifts the dildo out and shows it to him, the super asks whats this ?

By this time I'm boiling ... I said ITS A FUCKING DILDO rather loudly......... he said calm down sir .... go ......

Both of them scurry back to the post and I notice this elderly worman smirking as I walk by

Yeah, but the elderly woman was smirking because when she found out about being
searched she covertly planted her dildo in your bag.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Sly

I agree that it's absurd but what drug cases have you heard of based on your proposed method?

I haven't "heard" about any "drug cases"

I'm just telling you that me and every tom, dick, and harry used to fly around with a little stash in our pocket. You don't do that shit now because they are searching you and everything you have.

Why are they going through everything you have when they already have scanners going on you? A metal detector is already in use, the pilots door is solid steel, as long as you don't have explosives on you at that point you can't do much of anything except tote an ass whipping on the plane.

So what are they really looking for when they go through all of your stuff?

And why are they trying to "detain" someone like that pilot who decided "fuck it" I'm not gonna fly now?

That would be like deciding not to get in a taxi or on a bus and the driver "detaining" you. If you or me tried that shit it would be called "kidnapping"

Bottom line is that we are supposed to be free. And not being searched everywhere we go. It's a testament to how badly we are losing our liberty in this country. As I said earlier...in the 1970's planes were hijacked constantly. They COULD have put that steel door in at that point and stopped that dead cold. But they didn't.

In the 1980's a few planes were blown up in mid air. They COULD have put in explosives detection but they didn't.

This whole 9-11 thing is being used as an opportunity by authorities to do everything they never could before. From tapping our phones, to monitoring emails, to illegal search and seizure, and the list goes on and on.

I saw something on the news the other day where a commentator said that we need to realize "just how tall our enemy really is". And is the loss of our rights necessary or even effective against a handful of crazy people?

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

That's a dumb fuck analogy since I always ask to hold the pickles and they
gladly do it every time and if they fuck up and forget and I complain they give
me the burger for free.

[magicmike]

What do they think the pilot is bringing something to pass off to someone else to take down a plane?

That's the only reason at all it could even make sense. The pilot can crash his own plane with no other tools.

[SCORE Ralph]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

simple solution: don't fly.

His job is to fly.

[MetaMan]

LOL "terrorism" is all a facade put up to strip away freedom.

it is not hard, when people are afraid you can control them.

create fear, you create control.