Serious discussion: Bush lovers lets debate.
 

K lets keep this serious.

I dont like Bush.

I feel the war in Iraq was a BIG MISTAKE.

I feel alot of innocent lives were lost for this for no good reason.

I feel Bush handled the war in Iraq very badly and we shouldnt be there.

Now tell me why you think he is a good president?


Keep this thread serious please.

Post now your points. and we shall have a debate.

Someone grab 12clicks btw.

I will say this and nothing else tonight. I feel like Bush squandered the greatest opportunity for alliances with other nations after 9/11 by playing cowboys and indians in Iraq. Follow the money...

Cause Bush will keep those commie bastards out of America.First step Iran..next North Korea...:BangBang: :ak47:

12clicks can't debate politics he is just fun to destroy.

However...

When Bush got elected I thought fuckit...
Fine how bad can this guy do? Never have I personally been so shocked by any presidents really. Bush went beyond insane and totally shredded the USA for years ahead in more ways than 2 or 3.

Mind staggering really from Afghasnistan to Iraq, to Corporate kick backs to destroying fire departments in the USA and building them in Iraq.

Unemployment rates, the economy is shot to hell and the debt the USA has now is fucken beyond comprehension.

Thats just for starters...

Bush doesnt give a fuck about the environment
Bush doesnt give a fuck about all of the lower class americans
Bush took us from a 200 billion dollar SURPLUS to a 521 billion dollar budget DEFICIT
Bush is anti gay marrige and anti abortion

i wish he had choked on that pretzel and died.


come on boobmaster, where are you at? defend your precious lover...

first you need to understand why he went into iraq... it's not about the oil.... taking over iraq gives him full control of the middle east...turkey, syria, saudi arabia, iran, jordan.... he now has full control of all the neighboring countires... he can now tell israel to go fuck himself.... set up new stations everywhere and take over.... did he do the right thing?...imo- no.... but its buisness... its all buisness to them:2 cents:

Juicy,
Good try at your post...but here is the reality of the situation that the ones above me and the ones that will I am sure disagree, Fox News is head and shoulders above ALL news channels, and why is that? You must ask your self, will those folks that watch Fox vote for Kerry..I think not. So the very silent majority has already made up there minds.

Found this rather shocking photo today,
http://www.mikehawkmovies.com/dustin.jpg

Well until the election process its self undergoes a huge fucking change I dont think it will be possible to have a president thats only agenda is doing whats best for the majority. That said, Bush is a dumbass and it amazes me that his decisions are so easily swept under the rug so that you dont see them in the news(outside of gfy of course) except maybe a front page story hidden in the back nine of the paper. Clinton would have been impeached a long time ago:2 cents:

No doubts...

Bush should have been impeached if not outright taken down for war crimes.

Concerning the war in Iraq, few people seem to really ever think about this...

Sure, he did it because it made America "stronger", whether it be from oil control, land control, yadda yadda (pick which you prefer)...

However, I think it's SAFE to say that without Saddam, Iraq is probably a better place... I think we can all agree that the guy was a maniac and it is well documented that he has killed thousands upon thousands of his own people and really ruled in peculiar inhumane ways.

Now, a common retort to that would be "Well if America is so thoughtful and considerate, why aren't we helping out all of the other nations in need?" -- Maybe because there's nothing in it for us? Selfish it sounds, but do you see any other countries stepping to the plate and helping other nations in need?

Maybe we just decided "Fuck it, might as well control some land or oil, n' take out a sick twisted bastard causin trouble for everyone" -- whatever we gained out of it should be reward enough, and justification enough for going over there and helping a bad situation? (or at least attempting to)

Now keep in mind, I'm going to vote for Kerry simply cause I don't like war and maybe his approach might not be so kill-crazy... I would have never preferred that bush go to war, but I'm looking at it from an angle most people choose not to.

Perhaps they might have had some solid intelligence that saddam was going to do something crazy, maybe they had strong analysts that concluded if Saddam isn't taken out, there would be more bloodshed from his continuing precense than the bloodshed caused from a war.

But irregardless, I don't agree with the war, but you can't deny the possibility that maybe he made life better for the iraqi people. If that is the case, I still don't believe it is worth the lives of our soldiers all in the name of property control.

But this is just a thought, please refrain from the ignorant remarks. If you disagree, tell me why and use logic.

You forgot all the econmic things he's done wrong as well.

I don't know why you're even trying. I've been following a lot of these threads over the last few months and I have yet to see a Bush supporter actually make any intelligent posts. They usually come in, throw out a few one liners calling into question the Liberal points of views and the Liberals are stupid enough to then argue their positions instead of forcing the other to argue theirs.

Bush Administration > Cheney > War > Iraq > Oil > Halliburton > $$$$$$$$$$$ to line all of the pockets.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/5333896/

Exactly? The government wanted to take down someone for cheating on their spouse but not take down someone who put us in total chaos. What is wrong with this picture here?

Because the bible said fucking is bad but killing the non believers is good...

Did anyone see that democrat Sen. Zell guy speak at the RNC ? he said something like "Kerry wants to defend this country with spit balls"

and in a tv interview with someone on MSNBC the interviewer asks:

Interviewer: "Do you really think Kerry wants to defend the country with spitballs?"
Zell: ::pause:: .... I believe that was metaphor.
Interviewer: Do you even know what a metaphor is?
Zell: This is an interview and you are being really rude. I think this should end.

:1orglaugh

Wait isnt it always said that politics and religion are not supposed to be mixed? Why did it get mixed then? I swear people that vote for Bush have issues that they need to deal with. Abviously they have some kind of suicidal thoughts and dont care about the rest of the world. I say Suicidal thoughts, because Bush is leading us to a death toll that cant be fixed.

Ha ha ha, I guesse he doesnt even know what certain words mean just like bush.

Besides how is that being rude asking someone if they know what a metaphor is lol.

Juicy lets debate on one of the radio shows this week!!

:)

juicylinks:

OK Juicy! Now, you are always assured of a serious discussion on Bush with me - ya know that man!

So.. here goes .....
































































Now... sorry it was so long, but ya gotta agree there are good points there?? :winkwink:

I was talking to a big Bush supporter today about the defecit.

And I quote... "I'd rather our country be in a defecit. If we have a surplus, that is MY money just SITTING there being wasted."

This guy is a fucking life long 'maintenance man'. Not like he's in the top tax bracket or some shit.

Blew me away.

-P

jawanda:

Sad shit is they have even blown any prospect of him getting any pension tho he has paid for this.

A few governments seem to have this "this is my money" and "this is ours" confusion tho....

Whether or not you support the war in Iraq (I don't think its even being considered a war any more, so much as US Occupation) there are good reasons to vote for each candidate.

My reasons for voting Republican (I'd vote libertarian if I thought they had a snowballs chance in hell) are simple.

My money is my money. I don't agree with any of the democratic views on welfare, health care or abortion. I believe in a "to each his own" philosophy as far as money goes. It pisses me off that I work two jobs (three really) to make ends meet and then I still have to pay out the wazoo when it comes to taxes and there are people who work and don't even pay because they "don't make enough money".

I think that a national sales tax in place of the income tax would be great and I don't see the democratic party showing any interest in that.

I believe that the republican party has less interest in telling me how to live my life than most people on this board think. I also bet that no matter who's in office a year from now, the same whiny bitches are going to be complaning. Posting all day long on a fucking message board (especially one like this) does nothing for the political process.

Why the fuck can't we all get over this whole damned election (we're screwed either way.... lets move to canada... oh, wait, socialism has already fucked up there........ lets move to Jamacia instead....) and get back to making money by selling porn??

Well actually, I think the US consitution only allows you to worship freely according to your religious beliefs, but there is no "seperation" of church and state in there. It's just a myth.

If Bush gets his way, they'll get to change the marriage wording to something like "between a man and a woman" one of each, thus preventing mormons from living their lives according to their beliefs... Well.. Maybe they've changed that multiple wife thing already but you get the idea. i.e. Let's get you looking over here while we screw you over back there.

When Bush got 'elected' my first thought was that we are going to war..

the_wizz:

OK! Let's see if this fits...

According to Bush you have more of "your money" already.

I kinda agree with ya when you may not want to see your money squandered on massive "give aways" - but that is what has happened and still the largest deficit ever. (I really think that is one hard "achievement" - it's criminal.)

Health, welfare etc. The fact is, the US has probably (na definately), got the biggest healthcare problem of any western nation.

When you have the govt paying loads of "your money" to drug companies and accepting their "list prices" for drugs, there is a problem since they are spending around 6.4billion/year for this and it has been decided that it is "illegal" to negotiate prices with drug cartels.

I'd think that alone takes care of "your money"? :-)

That is the con - it's not only the US that has this "policy". I can tell ya loads of other countries going back 25 years who had "plans" of replacing income tax with sales tax - we are still waiting for that to happen, but meantime paying both.


So far that does not show up much in the track record over the last few years. Reckon actions speak louder than words.


On move the hell out ... Totally agree!! :glugglug

Tho.. despite all these "freedoms" - the IRS will still be chasing your ass irrespective where ya move to.

Better still.. switch off the TV and concentrate on earning money :-)

Ahh i didnt know that. See you learn something new everyday.

:thumbsup

Ok so what if Juicy was president and you had British Intelligence, Russian Intelligence and Us Intelligence telling you that Saadam was actively working towards weapons of mass destruction? The guy murdered thousand of his own people he was a modern day Hitler that needed to be put down like a rabid dog. If Saadam was so innocent why did he delay investigators so long during investigations? Don't you think it's possible that he delayed USA investigators so he could hide and/or dispose of evidence? Saadam was going to have to be dealt with
sooner or later.. I think it's better that he's gone.

What would any of that have to do with the War on Terror? I mean really. Korea can lob some nukes at some real targets. Iraq couldn't. Or how about Iran? And even with those guys it's STILL not about Terror but purely war!

Bottom line, Iraq was not a threat. It's been proven. So your country invaded a sovereign nation without provocation. Bush has turned you into agressors. Just like when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Or Germany invaded Poland. Sooner or later you'll have to deal with the realities of what's happened instead of trying to justify it.

mahoney:

Don't think you will get much dispute over whether it is better Saddam is gone or not.

It may be the "method" more than the result which is a problem.

When the method has resulted in alienating the world, killing many thousands more than were ever killed by Saddam, leaving a trail of deaths and malformations yet to come in that country from depleted uranium effects (which will last around 50 years) - to mention just a few "effects". It is clear this was not sane.

The logic is also warped in that there are many more "thug dicatators" in this world than just Saddam. Today the US still refuses to aid people in Sudan, despite being told loud and clear that this is a massive problem. Rest assured this will be a feeding ground for still more "terrorism" in the future.

On the eve of that "shock and awe" the lead weapons inspector just smirked at the suggestion that Iraq could possibly attack US forces with nuclear weaponary. Believe me, George Bush and his aids were well aware of the situation - they were told and refused to listen.

Ignorance seems to be a recurring theme on this board; hell with the entire Democratic party for that matter. George W. Bush has provided leadership and decisive action in a time that required it and in a nation that required it. 9/11 has changed the world, and I hope I'm preaching to the freakin choir when I say that. While John Kerry and the rest of the Democratic party would rather "talk things out", and stay on diplomatic means instead, George Bush has gotton things done.

Iraq was a GOOD idea. The fact that the Democrats wanted to use "Diplomatic" means just screams the fuckin word "Ignorance". Let's get things straight: diplomacy does NOT work with the likes of Saddam Hussein, period! Fuck, we tried diplomacy with that madman for 10 years and what did that do for us? All he did was break UN resolutions constantly and defy everything we tried to make him do. Now I firmly believe in war as the final, and I mean FINAL means of international relations. However, some people you simply cannot "talk" to to make things better.

Furthermore, George W. Bush proved his leadership qualities even more in this issue in regards to the United Nations. To me, the U.N. does some great things for the world, and I think it is highly beneficial. However, the problem of legitimacy and credibility remains. John Kerry and Co wanted more UN support for the war in Iraq, which in other words means diplomacy. Where was the UN during the Rwandan Genocide in 1994? Oh yeah, it was Bill Clinton and the United Nations who completley sat on their asses and IGNORED the situation entirely because they were too afraid to act. Too afraid because they didn't want to see a few american soldiers that may have gotton killed for a greater cause; they didn't want a "political disaster" like what happened in Somalia. It's leadership like that, or lack of leadership for that matter, that really scares me.

Also, Bush's decision to virtually go unilaterally into Iraq was a good one as well. Issues of AMERICAN national security should not be left up to the UN security council. Furthermore the United States should never need a "UN hall pass" to protect its own interests. In this post 9/11 world, indecisiveness is the worst route one can take. Sooner or later Saddam Hussein was going to have to be removed. You all know it, and I hope you're still not ignorant enough to ignore that simple and obvious fact. The world is a safer place with that lunatic in prison. The world is a safer place because George W. Bush has taken action and brought the fight to the enemy before the enemy decides to attack us. An old saying sums that up nicely: "A smaller headeache now instead of huge headache later is a much better deal."

As for the WMD and all this bullshit about Bush lying to the American public, I say have some patience for christ's sake. Iraq is the size of California, and it's all desert. Saddam had over a month to hide his weapons programs before we came in. Just this past year we found a 20 ton Russian Mig that Saddam bought from Russia that he BURIED in the sand. The funny thing is this jet is 70 feet long and was buried years before even the 1st gulf war! And it was buried 10 feet under ground! Hell, I'll personaly go buy all of you a fuckin shovel and you can start digging. Just remember you're looking for canisters the lenghts of a few feet; not a fuckin 20 ton Mig fighter jet. The source who revealed the jet to us even said that there's still 14 buried in the Iraqi desert somewhere. Again, have some patience! It's been just over a year, I bet they'll turn up eventually. Just be patient and open up a little bit to the possibility you might be wrong, or even partially wrong.

As for the whole "oil bullshit", all I can say is ignorance. It's all bullshit. Quick, go grab a calculater and i'll prove it to all of you. Ready? Ok. One could usurp EVERY drip of of oil from every square inch of Iraq and selling all that oil would not even be enough to pay for the war itself.

Now, if you're still reading this and you still hate Bush, fine, I don't really care. I'm just asking you to see my point of view; I think he's done an outstanding job with our foreign relations. Hell, I even disagree with him on a bunch of stuff. I dont like how he wants to incorporate religion into everything, I don't like how he's trying to ban gay marriage; hell let the gay community get married if they want, it's not gonna hurt anybody. But these disagreements aren't going to sway my vote because they are minor issues to me compared to national security and foreign policy.

Anywho, hopefully this will spark this "debate" even though it seems to be a completely one-sided liberal thread so far. I'm fuckin tired and i'm goin to bed so i'm giving you guys (and girls) the last word. At least until the morning ;)

i'm a bush lover, but its gotta be trimmed

I don't see health care as it currently is as a problem at all. It shouldn't be the government's responsibility to take care of anyone in that capacity. It should be up to the individual to provide their own health care. We've seen how well socialized medicine has worked in places like canada.

I still think we're all retarded for even attempting to discuss this shit.

So Saadam wasn't a threat on any level ? So if you were president you would of ignored British, Russian and USa inteliigence. Why/How are we worse off that Saadam is gone ?
I think both sides have some really valid points it's a slippery slope:2 cents:

You're assuming that the Bush government only had that information and no more. You're also assuming that Bush truly believed that information.

Regardless, going to war, removing one government to replace it with another, killing thousands of innocents, all of which had NOTHING to do with the Terrorism of 911, is purely wrong. It is not the actions of a peace loving, freedom spreading, life loving nation. Hunt down and kill real terrorists YES! Be an pro-war agressive occupying country NO!

Bush and many republicans have been saying that the world has changed and their policies are in response to those changes. What few have clued in to is that it is fundamentally changing what the US is about and believes. They are changing the US from one type of nation to another. From a set of beliefs that have built the nation into what it currently is, to a new set of beliefs that haven't been clearly defined. You guys have GOT to start asking the questions as to where Bush is taking you and whether or not that's the nation you want to be.

Oh..this is a good one! VERY JUICY!

1)YES, I do think that JUICY would have had more common sense and would have looked for even more intel on the situation that GWB did. Why, simply because Juicy is WAY more intelligent. You can tell that just by looking at each person's picture:

GWB's pic: DUH!
Juciy's pic: BRILLIANT!

2)Saddam delayed inspectors eh so he could hide/dispose of all those MASSIVE amounts of WsMD? Yet, over 1 1/2 years later, there ain't even any evidence of a sling shot found buried anywhere, destoryed or otherwise.

First you argue Bush got bad intel on the WsMD & THEN you argue Saddam hid them..you can't have it both ways btw. :1orglaugh

no to bush. no to war. no to terrorism.

it's that simple!

You mean the man that FROZE like a deer in headlights when he heard about the planes flying into the towers?

The same man that campaigned in 2000 on the theme that the U.S. cannot be the world's policeman and would work with our allies to "secure a lasting peace"?

The man that said we would GET Osama Bin Laden, dead or alive in 2001 and now says "I don't really care about Bin Laden"?

The man that has an exit..oops..I'm sorry, NO EXIT plan for what we do when we "win" the war in Iraq?

The man who committed our troops and bombed the shit out of Afghanistan and had probably cornered Bin Laden in the mountains who then called off most of the troops because he needed them in Iraq?

Oh yeah..now THAT is leadership & decisive action!

NOT!

I dissagree, we can't be worried about the world we have to take care of ourselves first. Democracy will spread in that area like it always has. :2 cents:

There is no price for freedom, and that includes death.

If you believe America needs to fight terrorism throughout the world, and not just current immediate threats on itself, you believe the war in Iraq was a good idea, and so you will believe if America decides to go to war against Iran or Syria...

Besides that, it has been proven already during Clinton's administration that the Iraqi government had connections with Al Qayeda, therefore the war in Iraq hurt Al Qayeda directly.