Piracy ruins movie industry

[DamianJ]

Oh wait, no it doesn't:

"For the first time in history box office grosses worldwide have surpassed the magic $30 billion mark and revenues are up 8 percent compared to 2009."

http://torrentfreak.com/evil-pirates...record-110224/

[Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life]

Don't listen to that commie pirate website, they are hurting!

[CaptainHowdy]

Movies theatres are getting packed lately, I'm not enjoying it ...

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Don't listen to that commie pirate website, they are hurting!

You can read the same on wired http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2011/...rd-box-office/ with a nice pic



Or you can see it on Boingboing, arstechnica, etc



God damn those evil pirates, they are CRIPPLING the movie industry.

[Dirty Dane]

If one big studio increase profit from 100 to 120 and two small studios decrease from 5 to 0, the total increase is +10.
But that increase doesn't equal "piracy doesn't ruin the industry". Smaller companies are more affected by it and they have less ressources to deal with it

[kane]

Much of this has to do with the fact that they are increasing ticket prices.

In 2010 there were around 9% fewer tickets sold than in 2006. The average ticket price in 2006 was $6.55 while in 2010 it was $7.89.

To me, this is the telling stat. In 2000 the average ticket price was $5.39. There were 478 movies released in theaters that year and they sold 9% more tickets than in 2010.

So in just 10 years they have had to increase the number of movies produced each year by about 9% (it works out to about 1 extra movie released each weekend) just to tread water and they are still selling less tickets. If they didn't raise the ticket prices they wouldn't be making the money they are making.

While I don't think they are in danger of going anywhere anytime soon, to me having to spend more and produce more just to sell the same amount or less is not a good sign.

[Zorgman]

That's mainstream movies, what about porn movies?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by kane

Much of this has to do with the fact that they are increasing ticket prices.

?The average cinema ticket price increased by 39 cents in 2010, consistent with the past few years, even as attendance to premium screening has increased (e.g. 3D),? says its new report on worldwide revenues. ?Moviegoing remains the most affordable entertainment option ? costing under $50 dollars for a family of four.?

[Paul Markham]

For those that don't understand the reasons here they are.

Going to the cinema is a night out.

Wanking off to a porn movie is 20 minutes. And you don't need to get dressed or take a friend.

The movie industry create a product and experience the consumer is willing to pay for.

The porn industry largely isn't doing the same. And thinks giving more away for free will solve the problem.

The movie industry has professional marketing personnel.

We have Damian.

Never paid for a movie ticket and walked into anything but a place that showed movies or tried to charge me over and over again. Also I got the real thing, not a con.

We think ripping off customers is a good way to get rich. From checked boxes on cross sells to sending them to dating sites with few or no chance of the guy getting a date.

This industry is great at deluding itself. Movies sell more so porn should. People buy bottled water when it's available for free. So they will pay for porn. Anything to continue the delusion and deny revenues are dropping.

[Odin]

I download movies all the time, I am also a regular at the cinema. I can't lie, me being able to download a movie has stopped me going once or twice, but all in all, anything worthwhile seeing at the movies I go see there, even if it is available for download. In my opinion if they focused on the experience of the movies, more people would go. I've been to some cinema's that belong in the third world, however when I go to a good cinema, with a decent movie I really enjoy the experience.

[kane]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

?The average cinema ticket price increased by 39 cents in 2010, consistent with the past few years, even as attendance to premium screening has increased (e.g. 3D),? says its new report on worldwide revenues. ?Moviegoing remains the most affordable entertainment option ? costing under $50 dollars for a family of four.?

That is just the change from 2009 to 2010.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/

Average cost of a movie ticket in 2000 $5.39. In 2010 $7.89.

The price of movies has gone up 68% in 10 years.

So they are making an average of 50 more movies per year, they have raised the price of a ticket 68% in the last 10 years and they are selling less tickets now than they did 10 years ago, yet when you do the cost of inflation/value of the dollar equivalence it means they only have about 9% more income now than they did 10 years ago.

I'm not an economic genius, but I would imagine that those extra 50 movies per year they are not releasing are not cheap. These box office numbers only show gross sales, not profit for the studios.

As I said, I don't think they are in danger of going anywhere anytime soon, but the trend of having to produce more to sell the same amount is not a good one.

[Fletch XXX]

no but krispy kreme sure fucking put the lil local donut shops out of business lol 2 that been open for over 30 years shut down this year after krispy kreme came to town hahaha

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The movie industry create a product and experience the consumer is willing to pay for.
The porn industry isn't doing the same.

People buy bottled water when it's available for free. So they will pay for porn.

We all know you contradict yourself all the time, but, really, it's rare you do it in the same post.

Nice work.

Also, do you not view 800% marked up sugar water and popcorn as an upsell, you funny thing?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by kane

As I said, I don't think they are in danger of going anywhere anytime soon, but the trend of having to produce more to sell the same amount is not a good one.

Seems to be working out OK for them?

Just they are having to do a little more work.

Who isn't?

But my point really is that CLEARLY file sharing must have an impact on revenues. Only someone as stupid as GG would argue against that. But, obviously, it's not making that much of an impact. OK, without filesharing, maybe they would have made 600 billion, but as it is, they seem to be doing pretty good, don't they?

Digital downloads for music are making a fortune.

So is it really just porn that is fucked by filesharing? Really? One would think it would impact software, films, music and porn.

But it seems to be just porn!

Interesting thought. Well, interesting to me anyway :D

[kane]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Seems to be working out OK for them?

Just they are having to do a little more work.

Who isn't?

But the question is, would they have to be doing that work if there were no torrent/download sites? We can't really know the answer unless we had the actual profit from these movies and not just the gross sales.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by kane

... The price of movies has gone up 68% in 10 years...

That is representative ALMOST DOUBLE the last 10 year period's inflation index CPI.

So, is the predatory movie ticket pricing the cause of the piracy or part of the movie industry's effort to recoup their perceived boxoffice loss to piracy. Also, over the past 10 years, DVD and video rentals growth is certainly a factor to be considered ...

So, sifting through the bullshit ain't e-z ...

[CaptainHowdy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

For those that don't understand the reasons here they are.

Going to the cinema is a night out.

Wanking off to a porn movie is 20 minutes. And you don't need to get dressed or take a friend.

The movie industry create a product and experience the consumer is willing to pay for.

The porn industry largely isn't doing the same. And thinks giving more away for free will solve the problem.

The movie industry has professional marketing personnel.

We have Damian.

Never paid for a movie ticket and walked into anything but a place that showed movies or tried to charge me over and over again. Also I got the real thing, not a con.

We think ripping off customers is a good way to get rich. From checked boxes on cross sells to sending them to dating sites with few or no chance of the guy getting a date.

This industry is great at deluding itself. Movies sell more so porn should. People buy bottled water when it's available for free. So they will pay for porn. Anything to continue the delusion and deny revenues are dropping.

[cooldude7]

does this mean 1998 is back for porn also ?

[DWB]

I don't see how piracy would ever seriously hurt box office sales. You simply can't replicate the experience of going to a theater.

Maybe they lose the broke asses who can't afford the rising ticket prices, but I personally LOVE going to the theater, whatever the price is. The new 3D movies are a bonus. Usually its the low class idiots who talk during movies anyway, so better to raise prices and keep them out.

I do believe piracy has done damage to the movie industries DVD sales. Doesn't make any sense at all to buy DVDs when you can jack them.

[BlackCrayon]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

“The average cinema ticket price increased by 39 cents in 2010, consistent with the past few years, even as attendance to premium screening has increased (e.g. 3D),” says its new report on worldwide revenues. “Moviegoing remains the most affordable entertainment option — costing under $50 dollars for a family of four.”

this has nothing to do with porn. movies are a night out, its something to do with a date, wife, kids ,etc. people buy popcorn, drinks, candy (very overpriced) no one has a 'porn night out'. its jerk material. its much lower on the totem pole.

[GatorB]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Oh wait, no it doesn't:

"For the first time in history box office grosses worldwide have surpassed the magic $30 billion mark and revenues are up 8 percent compared to 2009."

http://torrentfreak.com/evil-pirates...record-110224/

A) consider the source. Kind of like NAMBLA saying fucking little boys in the ass is a good thing.

B) if not for the 50% premium for 3-D tickets I wonder what the grosses would be

C) grosses are not profits. You should know that.

D) inflation is not taken into account.

E) Tickets sold in US in 2002 1.576 billion
Tickets sold in US in 2010 1.339 billion( fewest ticket sold since 1997 )

That's a 15% drop according to my math.

[Caligari]

the marketing genius speaks again

i will break this down as basically as i can for you to understand.

for the millionth time, no correlation between piracy and theatrical box office.

people go to big theater to see big movie in 3D, this not for pirate.

cost of movie ticket soars, people pay more, figures larger.

people no go big theater for porn movie, so no bearing on industry you post on industry board.

thread= FAIL

thread= TIRED

naturally

[GatorB]

Oh wait look what I found.

2010 closed as the second highest-grossing year of all time, but it still couldn't shake an air of disappointment. Not only did 2010 end with a whimper, estimated attendance was the lowest in 15 years.

The box office tally for 2010 was $10.57 billion, or around $30 million shy of 2009. That translated to an estimated attendance of 1.27 billion, which was off eight percent from 2009. 1995 was the last year to have sub-1.3 billion attendance. Since the modern attendance peak in 2002 (1.58 billion), attendance has been trending downward, but 2010 marked the second severe drop-off, following 2005.


http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3038&p=.htm

Hmmm wasn't 2003 when broadband internet started taking off?

[Caligari]

Originally Posted by GatorB

Oh wait look what I found.

2010 closed as the second highest-grossing year of all time, but it still couldn't shake an air of disappointment. Not only did 2010 end with a whimper, estimated attendance was the lowest in 15 years.

The box office tally for 2010 was $10.57 billion, or around $30 million shy of 2009. That translated to an estimated attendance of 1.27 billion, which was off eight percent from 2009. 1995 was the last year to have sub-1.3 billion attendance. Since the modern attendance peak in 2002 (1.58 billion), attendance has been trending downward, but 2010 marked the second severe drop-off, following 2005.


http://boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3038&p=.htm

Hmmm wasn't 2003 when broadband internet started taking off?

Good find and further evidence these pro piracy trolls don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

[tony286]

I can only imagine if people paid to see porn beer and that's how you made your living producing those shows. If you would feel the same. My guess is probably not.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

We all know you contradict yourself all the time, but, really, it's rare you do it in the same post.

Nice work.

Also, do you not view 800% marked up sugar water and popcorn as an upsell, you funny thing?

Seriously are you really in marketing or just kidding us. Because you're not very good.

We sell a product as flavored water and then the user finds out it plain tap water. The buyer of a Coke knows it's a Coke and makes the decision. Also he's not tricked into buying it. The product is marketed by professionals. Clearly something you don't understand.

Originally Posted by Caligari

the marketing genius speaks again

i will break this down as basically as i can for you to understand.

for the millionth time, no correlation between piracy and theatrical box office.

people go to big theater to see big movie in 3D, this not for pirate.

cost of movie ticket soars, people pay more, figures larger.

people no go big theater for porn movie, so no bearing on industry you post on industry board.

thread= FAIL

thread= TIRED

naturally

You do know this is way beyond his level?

*******************

Piracy isn't what made sales so hard to get. It's the industry itself. Losses due to piracy are small and always been something we could withstand like shop lifting.

What we can't stand is people giving away for free a better product, except resolution, than we try to sell. TGPs harmed the magazine industry industry because why buy a magazine when the Internet gave away millions of pictures for free.

We skimmed a little bit of that business in the process, the majority of it went to the free model. The Adult Internet could only see the increase. Good business so no complaints.

Then as speeds increased and hosting costs lowered the Adult Internet decided to give away video clips. As the costs lowered it gave away more. AND ratios suffered, but an excuse was found and we escalated. Until the birth of Tube sites.

Now a Tube site is a better place to get your porn than a paysite.

A movie theatre is a better place to get your movies than a download. The better comparison would be between Downloaded movies and DVD sales and rentals.

But our marketing genius Damian doesn't understand that. It's above his pay level.

Damian = Failure.

[Paul Markham]

The marketing genius of the Adult Internet.

1995 = I'll put a free picture on the net to promote my business.

2000 = I'll put 5 free pictures on the net to promote my business.

2005 = I'll put 5 free 10 minute videos on the net to promote my business.

2008 = I'll put 5 free scene on the net to promote my business.

2011 = I'll put 5,000 free scenes on the net to promote my business.

The numbers aren't right or dates, but you get the picture. 15 years ago type in sales from a free picture were awesome. Today type in sales for a Tube are crap. We gave the consumer more reasons NOT to buy than we did to buy and wonder why sales are falling.

[TheDoc]

I haven't been to the movie in ages.... more because my wife always falls asleep, but that shows me that the price of the theater, doesn't supply enough entertainment for the time covered. I would rather spend the money on a round of golf, something neither of us will fall asleep doing.

And then, they for sure have been increasing prices, which makes me not want to go even more.

That doesn't mean I pirate them, I just wait for the red box to get them some months down the road.

[iamtam]

amusing story but ticket sales are down 5% and revenue is only saved by higher 3d movie ticket prices. otherwise it would have been a bloodbath.

[L-Pink]

So it's ok to steal from a retail store if their sales are strong? Got it.


.

[TheDoc]

Does anyone here actually go to the movies more today than they did 10 years ago? Assuming you're not 20 of course.

Everyone I know hardly ever goes to a movie, if ever... but 10-15 or so years ago, they went all the time, just like I did.

Those same parents today aren't letting the kids go to the movies as much either, for sure not like we used to go, which was almost every weekend. Today that would be a $100 or so a month in movies just for weekends, and that's f'in crazy...

If $10 a month netflix gets you, whatever it is 2 in 10 total, or whatever.. that's like 100x more entertainment for 90% less cost - give or take.

No part of me, not even .1% of me can blame piracy for what has happened to movie theaters. The experience hasn't improved, the cost has improved, overall movie stories aren't any better than 10-20 years ago.

What has improved is the technology - but so has home technology, by leaps and bounds. Add in cost, experience, an economy that has went backwards in all aspects, you get an industry that knows they just have to charge more, to make more - rather than produce something better or improve our experience.

[candyflip]

Hey Broken Record Paul...shut the fuck up all ready. No one...NO ONE cares what you have to say.

[czarina]

but... did you really take the dollar devaluation and current inflation into account? :P

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by candyflip

Hey Broken Record Paul...shut the fuck up all ready. No one...NO ONE cares what you have to say.

I know people would rather blame piracy than blame the real culprits. Themselves.

Actually someone does care. The people who used to be customers. They love the new and better free options.

[Agent 488]

when i go to the theater it is busy, mostly teenagers.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

http://torrentfreak.com/evil-pirates...record-110224/

I love how people that have never created anything in their lives -- who freely distribute the hard work of others for easy theft -- try to justify what they do. There's something sociopathic about it, and the people that support them.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I know people would rather blame piracy than blame the real culprits. Themselves.

Actually someone does care. The people who used to be customers. They love the new and better free options.

that's true. Human nature will make most people take the free option, especially if there are no consequences. If everyone knew they would go to jail for downloading a movie, the same as if they walked into Best Buy and stole it from the shelves, they would stop.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Odin

I download movies all the time, I am also a regular at the cinema. I can't lie, me being able to download a movie has stopped me going once or twice, but all in all, anything worthwhile seeing at the movies I go see there, even if it is available for download. In my opinion if they focused on the experience of the movies, more people would go. I've been to some cinema's that belong in the third world, however when I go to a good cinema, with a decent movie I really enjoy the experience.

they're trying to dress up the old experience of watching a movie in a theater, with 3D and whatever bullshit they come up with. The bottom line is, nothing will match the simple experience of sitting in a room with 100 strangers watching a new movie on a screen that's 50 times bigger than your TV screen. It doesn't need to be anything more than that.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Oh wait, no it doesn't:

"For the first time in history box office grosses worldwide have surpassed the magic $30 billion mark and revenues are up 8 percent compared to 2009."

http://torrentfreak.com/evil-pirates...record-110224/

Wow, or maybe Block Buster closed down 960 stores and now more people have to go
out to the movie theaters.




Ya know, all those millions of Americans that still don't use the internet and Netflix.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Does anyone here actually go to the movies more today than they did 10 years ago? Assuming you're not 20 of course.

Everyone I know hardly ever goes to a movie, if ever... but 10-15 or so years ago, they went all the time, just like I did.

Those same parents today aren't letting the kids go to the movies as much either, for sure not like we used to go, which was almost every weekend. Today that would be a $100 or so a month in movies just for weekends, and that's f'in crazy...

If $10 a month netflix gets you, whatever it is 2 in 10 total, or whatever.. that's like 100x more entertainment for 90% less cost - give or take.

No part of me, not even .1% of me can blame piracy for what has happened to movie theaters. The experience hasn't improved, the cost has improved, overall movie stories aren't any better than 10-20 years ago.

What has improved is the technology - but so has home technology, by leaps and bounds. Add in cost, experience, an economy that has went backwards in all aspects, you get an industry that knows they just have to charge more, to make more - rather than produce something better or improve our experience.

All of that is true; however,

Going to the movies is "getting out of the house" and people are going to do that,
and the movies are at sometimes the only way to "get out of the house" for some
people and therefore even shitty first run movies will continue to sell.

But selling movies to people who have already seen it for free is more a problem.


So crappy movies will have slower sales, but sales nevertheless, but free movies have no
sales and are a killer to the biz.

[Robbie]

In the meantime...Just read the latest issue of Rolling Stone.

The music industry just had the worst year EVER in it's history.

For a few years, tours and merchandise were taking up the slack. But over the last year that too dropped. Many tours were canceled.

Unless your name was Lady GaGa, Justin Bieber, or a couple of other artists...you were shit out of luck.

Guess that whole "give everything away for free" theory did just about what common sense would tell you it would. It created a very short burst, and then burned out fast.
And it only worked for established artists.

The unknown future "stars"? They aren't gonna become stars because they aren't gonna get noticed in the shuffle of free stuff.

But at least the Beatles are making millions by finally going on ITunes.

The little band in BumFuck who might have been the next Beatles? They will be working at McDonalds and Walmart instead.

[Sunny Day]

Theatre chains like AMC are switching to all digital projectors. Prevents film from being lost in transit or employee borrowing the film to make copies. Within a couple of years, film won't exist at all, which will hurt small town independents.
Also the 3D & IMAX are harder to pirate & watching them is a better experience.
Also to keep profits up, AMC is putting bars into all their theatres. As they build new theatres, there will be the general audience side and the over 21 side. Also have some screens as Fork & Screen where you can eat and drink while watching the movie. Have to be 21 or with a parent, cuts down the noisy teenagers. Also have screens called Cinema Suites, besides food & drinks, you sit in a leather recliner. Cinema Suites are about $20 per person plus movie ticket. Don't know about F&S, but Cinema Suites is reserved seating and there are about 50 seats per screen.
Eating & drinking has been around for years at a few theatres, mostly independents, but AMC, Regal and the others are going full tilt to sell liquor. I got a martini at the theatre, they charged me for vodka & the vermouth. Nobody charges for vermouth.

[potter]

Originally Posted by Robbie

In the meantime...Just read the latest issue of Rolling Stone.

The music industry just had the worst year EVER in it's history.

For a few years, tours and merchandise were taking up the slack. But over the last year that too dropped. Many tours were canceled.

Unless your name was Lady GaGa, Justin Bieber, or a couple of other artists...you were shit out of luck.

Guess that whole "give everything away for free" theory did just about what common sense would tell you it would. It created a very short burst, and then burned out fast.
And it only worked for established artists.

The unknown future "stars"? They aren't gonna become stars because they aren't gonna get noticed in the shuffle of free stuff.

But at least the Beatles are making millions by finally going on ITunes.

The little band in BumFuck who might have been the next Beatles? They will be working at McDonalds and Walmart instead.

That's because the music industry is still trying to run itself on a method of business that is 40 years old. They've barely made any changes to keep up with the market and change in the way people want and listen to music. I pay for music, but I pay in the form of a Pandora subscription. Since moving to pandora, I've actually not even added music to my ipod app. I just plug my phone in and hit the pandora app instead. It provides me with even more than my own music library ever could.

Whereas, the movie industry is getting better and better. With NetFlix and OnDemand I don't see how pirates have the upperhand any more. Sure, I can probably download the latest movie in 30-60 minutes, then hook up my computer to the TV (or burn the image to a blank dvd), then watch it. In hopes it's quality and works correctly. Or, I just hit channel 1, go to movies, find the movie in the list and hit "buy". BOOM I'm instantly watching what I wanted to. (Same thing with Netflix as well). To put it simply, it's easier. Granted OnDemand is slightly more expensive as you're paying for each movie. But with the whole market switching to similar services like NetFlix, people pay a measly monthly fee and can watch movies to their heart's content.

[bronco67]

Originally Posted by Sunny Day

Theatre chains like AMC are switching to all digital projectors. Prevents film from being lost in transit or employee borrowing the film to make copies. .

Yeah, Jimmy the projectionist was taking 6 giant reel cans to his mobile film copying van to make copies of Sandra bullock movies.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by potter

That's because the music industry is still trying to run itself on a method of business that is 40 years old. They've barely made any changes to keep up with the market and change in the way people want and listen to music.

Yup. The music industry had it too easy for too long. Remind you of anyone? Music industry used to resell shit to people over and over. Remind you of anyone? Music industry charged too much for product that was delivered in a format people didn't want. Remind you of anyone?

And then some of them adapted, and legal digital downloads are hitting record highs:

http://thenextweb.com/uk/2010/09/16/...-million-mark/

[Redrob]

Another big difference is that the major motions picture studios really support the theatre owners in a ways that you don't see in this industry in terms of promotional materials, revenue sharing programs, and quality of productions.

Some adult studios try; but, the majority of their efforts fall far short.

How many adult studios still produce posters or even one-sheets to promote their movies? Nuff said.

[will76]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Oh wait, no it doesn't:

"For the first time in history box office grosses worldwide have surpassed the magic $30 billion mark and revenues are up 8 percent compared to 2009."

http://torrentfreak.com/evil-pirates...record-110224/

Oh lookie, its Gideon's nut sack suckie... the pirate wanna be in training Damian.

[Sunny Day]

Originally Posted by bronco67

Yeah, Jimmy the projectionist was taking 6 giant reel cans to his mobile film copying van to make copies of Sandra bullock movies.

AMC must think it's a problem. When they install new digital equipment, they destroy the old projectors so the can't be used.

I went to a cople of advanced screenings. They wanted everyone to turn in their cellphones and had staff watching the audience for any cellphone usage

[Rochard]

Sales are up because people need comfort right now, and they get that in the form of entertainment. Concert sales are down to the point where they cancel most of them for lack of sales - People would rather see a $12 movie than a $65 concert.

[tony286]

The musuc industry had it to easy? Lol how many acts they sign put money behind and nothing happens? Go look at discount cd bin full of they thought had potential and failed. The shame now is so much money has go into music videos and promotion. They dont grow acts anymore. A bruce springsteen, styx, reo or kansas or hall and oats would never happen today because thier first albums werent homeruns.