CONVERSIONS: Who's responsibility is it? - GoFuckYourself.com

Voodoo · 01-20-2003, 02:35 PM

Frequently I see threads stating that it is the "design" of a site that "converts" the surfer to signup. What do you think?

Who is responsible for converting a site?

Some things to keep in mind....
1. The client who purchases a design is usually asked for specs and what they want the site to be, as well as an idea of what they want it to look like. A good designer will also ask for "sales text" or "sales blurbs" that they can incorperate into the design, which is provided by the client also. Not many designers are trained in actual sales tactics, and the few that are, will most likely still ask for sales text if there is any available, because nobody knows what is in the client's head, better than the client.

2. A site entrance is a "sales pitch" for the member's area. I've seen sites that are mostly tables, and text with a few images that convert like crazy because they have great sales pitches, and on the flip-side, I've seen awesome designs with poor sales pitches, that don't convert.

So, what do you think?

Post your thoughts on this... maybe we can all get some useful info from them.

sexyclicks · 01-20-2003, 02:44 PM

its all together...which means its the clients responsibilty to collect good desing, nice exclusive content, affordable prices etc.

rdunn404 · 01-20-2003, 02:44 PM

Pass the blame my brother....it's the American way!

Voodoo · 01-20-2003, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sexyclicks
its all together...which means its the clients responsibilty to collect good desing, nice exclusive content, affordable prices etc.

I agree... I'm wondering though... A "good design" can mean many things. When I design, I keep sales and marketability in mind when doing layouts, and graphics etc... but, I've also seen "good designs" where these were not taken into account...

If a client accepts a design as described where sales and marketability are not taken into account, is it the designer's lack of skills that cause it to not convert, or is the client responsible for the lack of conversions because they accepted the design?

Voodoo · 01-20-2003, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rdunn404
Pass the blame my brother....it's the American way!

There is no blame to pass.
Only good information.

KRL · 01-20-2003, 02:59 PM

This is The Goldern Rule of all Selling: AIDA

ATTENTION

INTEREST

DESIRE

ACTION

I have stuff that is horribly designed on purpose, but it gets their attention cause they think what the fuck is this site all about, which then gets their interest, which brings them in where you get them excited, which takes them to where they will buy.

Voodoo · 01-20-2003, 03:04 PM

I can't remember where I first read it, but, it was a great quote... which is...

"Get them to put their hand on their cocks, then get them to open their wallet."

Or something to that effect.

Voodoo · 01-20-2003, 03:17 PM

I think the following elements are key in developing a site that converts (in order of importance) which also play a vital role in retention:

1. Professional Sales Text
2. Professional Marketing
3. Frequent Updates
4. Exclusive Content
5. Professional Design

CDSmith · 01-20-2003, 03:18 PM

My responsibility as an affiliate ends when the surfer is delivered to the paysite. I have done my job properly and fullfilled my part of the bargain if I have teased the surfer with some relevant content, and have placed some alluring catchy advertising to entice the surfer to click further.

The rest is up to the outer design of the paysite to complete the initial sale, and the inner content "member's area" to secure any subsequent conversions or renewals. This tells me that the answer to your question is: it is mostly up to the owner of the paysite to nail down the conversions.

One method I've seen used from time to time is to:

A) have a good, interesting, catchy premise/theme to the site,

and

B) include a forum of some sort inside the member's area.

Get your members talking amongst themselves (and with a few of your actors/models) and you will retain many more of them in the long term.

Also, promoting upcoming shoots, videos and events directly to the members and keeping regularly scheduled updates tends to retain members as well.

But just slapping together 20 image galleries and 3 dozen videos and calling it a paysite..... well, this proves my point entirely. It's up to the owner, and how well things are run.

G Sharp · 01-20-2003, 03:23 PM

Maybe your question really should be rephrased:

As webmasters, do you need graphics designers just to BUILD your site or to do DESIGN.

There's a big difference between the two. Building just means taking the owner's specs and "model sites" and building a site to spec using HTML, javascript, and your photoshop skills.

Design on the other hand would mean drawing on experience, market research, testing experience, conferring with other webmasters, etc etc.

Unfortunately, the two are confused by some webmasters who really want DESIGN done for BUILDING prices. Design is all about conversion... building is basically just asking for a skilled person to build items to specs [you're on your own re conversion]

The only DESIGNER I've seen on this board that matches the market/site analysis/conversion analysis portion described above is the guy from lumyr or something like that.

Of course, there is also Mike Wylde of Wylde sites but good luck getting to the THE MAN. The guy is a legend cuz his shit CONVERTS.

A good analogy of the distinction would be asking a carpenter to build an addition vs. contracting with Frank Lloyd Wright to do your own personal version of the Kaufmann house.

My

Voodoo · 01-20-2003, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by G Sharp
...some webmasters who really want DESIGN done for BUILDING prices...

This is so very true. I think this needs to be defined a little better in this industry.

Design/Build are two totally seperate aspects to almost any other industry. They work together, however, the designers do not do much with the actual construction of the project, such as Architecture/Engineering don't pour concrete, or lay fiber, unless they do Design/Build... and in that case, there is typically a seperate department that handles the build aspect.

ElvisManson · 01-20-2003, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
My responsibility as an affiliate ends when the surfer is delivered to the paysite. I have done my job properly and fullfilled my part of the bargain if I have teased the surfer with some relevant content, and have placed some alluring catchy advertising to entice the surfer to click further.

hand this man a cigar!!!

CD you have hit the nail on the head.

It is my my job as the person that runs an affiliate program to convert the surfer once he gets to my site.

If the WM has done his job properly and delivered qualified teased traffic the conversions will be very good.

If on the other hand the WM has sent ebony traffic to a teen site ( don't laugh...i get shit like that all the time) then the conversions aren't going to be very good.

It takes the combined effort of everyone involved to optimize the traffic and squeeze as much out of every surfer we can.

Voodoo · 01-20-2003, 03:54 PM

I suppose Affiliate Programs would fall under the "Sales/Marketing" department option.

CDSmith · 01-20-2003, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoo
I suppose Affiliate Programs would fall under the "Sales/Marketing" department option.

If you were referring to a "stand-alone" paysite with no affiliate WM program, then the principles I mentioned still apply. The site-owner will have to drum up traffic to the site somehow, but in order to convert and retain that traffic the same principles must apply.
Appropriate design ---> catchy theme ----> great content ----> regular updates that are worth staying a member for

Probably some catchy-yet-not-overly-intrusive upselling from inside the member's area is a good idea as well.

Elvis -- Thanks man. That "affiliate rant" of mine comes from the fact that I've seen far too many sponsors penalizing the affiliate for poor conversions. Some are notorious for this..... if you promote their per-click program and they don't see a good enough ratio they will wipe out your earned clicks for that pay period and switch you over to "per-signup", thus blaming your traffic rather than putting the blame where it belongs.... on their sites.

Voodoo · 01-20-2003, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CDSmith
If you were referring to a "stand-alone" paysite with no affiliate WM program, then the principles I mentioned still apply. The site-owner will have to drum up traffic to the site somehow, but in order to convert and retain that traffic the same principles must apply.
Appropriate design ---> catchy theme ----> great content ----> regular updates that are worth staying a member for

Probably some catchy-yet-not-overly-intrusive upselling from inside the member's area is a good idea as well.

Elvis -- Thanks man. That "affiliate rant" of mine comes from the fact that I've seen far too many sponsors penalizing the affiliate for poor conversions. Some are notorious for this..... if you promote their per-click program and they don't see a good enough ratio they will wipe out your earned clicks for that pay period and switch you over to "per-signup", thus blaming your traffic rather than putting the blame where it belongs.... on their sites.

Sorry, I just meant in the poll results.

Snake Doctor · 01-20-2003, 04:18 PM

Topic: CONVERSIONS: Who's responsibility is it?

Its going to be your responsibility as soon as I get this content together and send you my tour specs

<IMX> · 01-20-2003, 04:27 PM

You also need to be careful and look at the site you have selected to promote. Walk all the way through it to see if the site is REALLY meant to convert the traffic you are sending.

There are plenty of programs that throw consoles up on join pages, or have teen chickies on gay site join forms.

Voodoo · 01-20-2003, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lenny2
Topic: CONVERSIONS: Who's responsibility is it?

Its going to be your responsibility as soon as I get this content together and send you my tour specs

LOL! Hey Lenny... Good 2 C U.

Brujah · 01-20-2003, 05:03 PM

No one. No one. No one ever.. is to blame.
- hojo

Rich · 01-20-2003, 05:43 PM

All of the above

Brujah · 01-20-2003, 06:51 PM

I want to blame all my bad conversions on the Designer. It's not my traffic that doesn't convert better than 1:100 it's the designers fault!

View Poll Results: CONVERSIONS: Who's responsibility is it?
The Client	11	23.91%
The Designer	8	17.39%
The Content Provider	3	6.52%
The Sales/Marketing Department	14	30.43%
The Surfer	2	4.35%
I wish I knew.	8	17.39%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

01-20-2003, 02:35 PM	#1
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 10,592	CONVERSIONS: Who's responsibility is it? Frequently I see threads stating that it is the "design" of a site that "converts" the surfer to signup. What do you think? Who is responsible for converting a site? Some things to keep in mind.... 1. The client who purchases a design is usually asked for specs and what they want the site to be, as well as an idea of what they want it to look like. A good designer will also ask for "sales text" or "sales blurbs" that they can incorperate into the design, which is provided by the client also. Not many designers are trained in actual sales tactics, and the few that are, will most likely still ask for sales text if there is any available, because nobody knows what is in the client's head, better than the client. 2. A site entrance is a "sales pitch" for the member's area. I've seen sites that are mostly tables, and text with a few images that convert like crazy because they have great sales pitches, and on the flip-side, I've seen awesome designs with poor sales pitches, that don't convert. So, what do you think? Post your thoughts on this... maybe we can all get some useful info from them. __________________ "I'm selflessly supporting the common good, but only coincidentally looking out for No.1." Last edited by Voodoo; 01-20-2003 at 02:42 PM..

01-20-2003, 02:59 PM	#6
KRL Entrepreneur Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 31,429	This is The Goldern Rule of all Selling: AIDA ATTENTION INTEREST DESIRE ACTION I have stuff that is horribly designed on purpose, but it gets their attention cause they think what the fuck is this site all about, which then gets their interest, which brings them in where you get them excited, which takes them to where they will buy. __________________ If you would like to develop your domains, you can lease inexpensive foreign labor from the leaders in the field at iWebmasters.com TO LOWER YOUR COSTS AND INCREASE YOUR PRODUCTION! * * * * * * * * * * * * Domains Adult News KRL's Newsletter Biz Tips Just Listed Domains

01-20-2003, 03:04 PM	#7
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 10,592	I can't remember where I first read it, but, it was a great quote... which is... "Get them to put their hand on their cocks, then get them to open their wallet." Or something to that effect. __________________ "I'm selflessly supporting the common good, but only coincidentally looking out for No.1."

01-20-2003, 03:17 PM	#8
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 10,592	I think the following elements are key in developing a site that converts (in order of importance) which also play a vital role in retention: 1. Professional Sales Text 2. Professional Marketing 3. Frequent Updates 4. Exclusive Content 5. Professional Design __________________ "I'm selflessly supporting the common good, but only coincidentally looking out for No.1."

01-20-2003, 02:44 PM	#2
sexyclicks Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: c9media.com Posts: 3,240	its all together...which means its the clients responsibilty to collect good desing, nice exclusive content, affordable prices etc.

01-20-2003, 02:44 PM	#3
rdunn404 Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 999	Pass the blame my brother....it's the American way!

01-20-2003, 03:18 PM	#9
CDSmith Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: My network is hosted at TECHIEMEDIA.net ...Wait, you meant where am I located at? Oh... okay, I'm in Winnipeg, Canada. Oops. :) Posts: 51,460	My responsibility as an affiliate ends when the surfer is delivered to the paysite. I have done my job properly and fullfilled my part of the bargain if I have teased the surfer with some relevant content, and have placed some alluring catchy advertising to entice the surfer to click further. The rest is up to the outer design of the paysite to complete the initial sale, and the inner content "member's area" to secure any subsequent conversions or renewals. This tells me that the answer to your question is: it is mostly up to the owner of the paysite to nail down the conversions. One method I've seen used from time to time is to: A) have a good, interesting, catchy premise/theme to the site, and B) include a forum of some sort inside the member's area. Get your members talking amongst themselves (and with a few of your actors/models) and you will retain many more of them in the long term. Also, promoting upcoming shoots, videos and events directly to the members and keeping regularly scheduled updates tends to retain members as well. But just slapping together 20 image galleries and 3 dozen videos and calling it a paysite..... well, this proves my point entirely. It's up to the owner, and how well things are run. __________________ *Promote Wildmatch, ImLive, Sexier.com, and more!!* ALWAYS THE HIGHEST PAYOUTS: Big Bux/ImLive SIGNUP ON NOW!!! Put some PUSSYCA$H in your pocket. ICQ me at: 31024634 Last edited by CDSmith; 01-20-2003 at 03:20 PM..

01-20-2003, 03:23 PM	#10
G Sharp So Fucking Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,343	Maybe your question really should be rephrased: As webmasters, do you need graphics designers just to BUILD your site or to do DESIGN. There's a big difference between the two. Building just means taking the owner's specs and "model sites" and building a site to spec using HTML, javascript, and your photoshop skills. Design on the other hand would mean drawing on experience, market research, testing experience, conferring with other webmasters, etc etc. Unfortunately, the two are confused by some webmasters who really want DESIGN done for BUILDING prices. Design is all about conversion... building is basically just asking for a skilled person to build items to specs [you're on your own re conversion] The only DESIGNER I've seen on this board that matches the market/site analysis/conversion analysis portion described above is the guy from lumyr or something like that. Of course, there is also Mike Wylde of Wylde sites but good luck getting to the THE MAN. The guy is a legend cuz his shit CONVERTS. A good analogy of the distinction would be asking a carpenter to build an addition vs. contracting with Frank Lloyd Wright to do your own personal version of the Kaufmann house. My Last edited by G Sharp; 01-20-2003 at 03:25 PM..

01-20-2003, 03:54 PM	#13
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 10,592	I suppose Affiliate Programs would fall under the "Sales/Marketing" department option. __________________ "I'm selflessly supporting the common good, but only coincidentally looking out for No.1."

01-20-2003, 04:18 PM	#16
Snake Doctor I'm Lenny2 Bitch Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: On top of my soapbox Posts: 13,449	Topic: CONVERSIONS: Who's responsibility is it? Its going to be your responsibility as soon as I get this content together and send you my tour specs __________________ sig too big

01-20-2003, 04:27 PM	#17
<IMX> Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 2,728	You also need to be careful and look at the site you have selected to promote. Walk all the way through it to see if the site is REALLY meant to convert the traffic you are sending. There are plenty of programs that throw consoles up on join pages, or have teen chickies on gay site join forms. __________________ $$$ Check out NICHE PAY the leader of Micro Niche Sites! They offer $1 Trials! $$$ $$$ Check out 10 FREE TRIAL SALES equals 1 FREE LAP TOP ! $$$

01-20-2003, 05:03 PM	#19
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	No one. No one. No one ever.. is to blame. - hojo __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

01-20-2003, 05:43 PM	#20
Rich So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 11,486	All of the above

01-20-2003, 06:51 PM	#21
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	I want to blame all my bad conversions on the Designer. It's not my traffic that doesn't convert better than 1:100 it's the designers fault! __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com