TheDoc

Right... experience from the other side of the fence.

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TheDoc

Yeah, I'm sure no connection can be found what so ever between CAW and the nursing industry, it's probably just all business, a fluke, that's totally logical... hahaha.

I know exactly why they come about, what I don't care about is why Canadians do it.

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TheDoc

Oh look, 2 seconds on Google and I found out why CAW reached across the table and I found the table is huge, not just nursing homes, but healthcare, colleges, farms, gaming, mining, retail, shipping, trasport, and more.

Then I asked the question, why? The answer... retired workers moving industries bitching about conditions. Such as, doctors/nursers working in nursing homes that weren't actually doctors/nursers anymore....and some workers being forced to work without pay, wow... yeah, no reason for a unions in Canada, corps are all fair, all good, and do exactly what is best for the employees, every single time!

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MrBottomTooth

The only thing they had in common was they were a union and they decided they wanted to push out the SEIU. They literally had guys at the bargaining table that had only ever dealt with auto plants before. No experience with nurses at all. FACT.

I also know exactly why they come about, and I don't care what someone who has no experience in the matter says. You're like arguing with Gideon about copyright infringement.

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Minte

Democrats love the unions. The unions fund the elections for the democrats who in turn give the unions more power and money to build more unions in as many businesses as they can. Nothing but parasites.

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TheDoc

As an American, you're correct... I have no experience in Canadian unions.

But thinking I don't have experience in unions, would be a major mistake on your part.

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MrBottomTooth

People working without pay, that's a new one! Do you know what the fine would be based on the Employment Standards Act for making someone work without pay? We would be fined out of business for making someone work without pay.

A doctor working for no pay? We can hardly get them to show up when we are paying them, they push it off onto nurse practitioners if we're lucky.

You act like we are some crooked corporation who doesn't give a shit about employees. My dad used to drive to employees houses in his 4X4 to pick them up in snowstorms when they couldn't make it in, because their husbands were to lazy to drive them.

Once the unions came in all the freebies stopped.

edit: and before you say, you must have been doing something wrong to get a union in. The answer would be they were promised ridiculous raises by the union if they voted them in.

The sad part is as a nursing home we are given a set amount of money by the government to spend on nursing, programs, and the rest for accommodation. If we don't spend all the nursing money we literally have to give it back to the government.

So there was no raise for them to get. it was all smoke and mirrors by the union. We were already spending every dollar the government gave us for nursing. If we didn't we had to return it to the government.

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TheDoc

What about the "equal amount of unions" that give to Republicans? Or the ones that don't do it at all, or the ones that allow each person to make the choice, or groups to donation to any cause, political or not.... which is how most work.

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BFT3K

Here, I fixed this for you...

Republicans love the big corporations. Their lobbyists fund the elections for the Republicans who in turn give the ultra-wealthy more power and money to benefit the CEOs and top 2% in as many businesses as they can. Nothing but parasites.

TheDoc

Not if they weren't an employee...

Never said a doctor working without pay, rather a doctor working without his lic.

So rather than your father saying don't come in today, when the husband said no work, your father forced them to work? And you question why you have a union....

That's not being nice, that's called being a dick.

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MrBottomTooth

It's a nursing home, moron. They're are 60 people here that need the nurses here to change them, feed them, give them medicine. If the nurses don't show up, people die.

That is why we have over 80 employees, we need to have enough on hand at all times to make sure everyone can be replaced.

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TheDoc

Oh, so the union solved your unsafe conditions for the people at the home, WHEN something happens... sweet.

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Minte

Yes,they do. It's part of being a producer. How many jobs does a union create?


I can drive the local area now and take pictures of over 10million sq feet of empty manufacturing plants that closed because they lost their competitive edge against Asian labor. The unions didn't know when to back off. Now they are gone.

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TheDoc

Hahaha... so the non-union corps should be rocking it then.

Unions or not, we can't complete with $3 a month wages.

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MrBottomTooth

Union had no affect on staffing patterns at all. Now we just don't let employees get away with taking snow days off. If they don't show up they get written up. Great benefit to the employees!!!!

Keep trying!

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MrBottomTooth

Toyota seems to be doing pretty good in their local non-union plant. I'm sure they have no shortage of resumes on hand. But the local Ford plant just closed down.

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Minte

I did. We hired 40 new employees last year. We invested over $5m in new equipment in the last 36 months and are putting on another 60k sq ft to our main plant. When it's finished we will add another 50+ jobs. With health,dental,life and 401k. We had a couple of guys try to start a union a few years ago. They were voted down by a large majority.

I can take you to hundreds of small business like mine that are doing just fine. We are growing and we are making money.

Large corporations that are stuck with unions are the ones having the problems.

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TheDoc

Ahhh, I get your game now, bring up pointless shit so it's easy to show unions did nothing related to that pointless shit.

As I said above, "experience from the other side of the fence."

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TheDoc

Shit tons of union corps are kicking ass, come on.... it's not a one way door, that is without question. Just like a shit ton of non-union corps, need a union, and are failing... it's even, all around.

You're a great example of what happens when a corp actually offers something to employees... it shows union attempts are easy to squash if employees are actually happy.

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MrBottomTooth

The only benefit the union had was to relieve them of $100 a month or so in union dues. NOTHING else changed in our home, other than us stopping some of the freebies we used to give out. No more free booze at the staff Christmas party. No more free rides to work.

They actually get less in raises every year now since the union came in, since we have to follow whatever the master bargaining group does.

You pretending like you know anything about our situatiuon is really rather pathetic.

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TheDoc

I'm not pretending anything... I'm following YOUR conversion, and when you're talking about staff and the next post say you had to have 80, everyone is going to logically think the union did that.

So you can stop pretending as if I'm trying to know anything about your stupid ass, when I can only follow your conversion...

And again, as I said above, "experience from the other side of the fence." which is very clear.

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MrBottomTooth

Apparently you weren't following my conversation when I said:

"Union had no affect on staffing patterns at all."

We've always had around 80 to make sure we have the floor covered. The Union can't tell us how to run the place, because they don't know how. They are just there to skim off of the employees and to cost us more in legal fees come bargaining time. We are regulated by the ESA and the Long Term Care Homes Act.

If I only have experience from the other side of the fence, then you must be outside the city limits. Typical union mentality as well, the ideas and thoughts from management have no bearing on anything. Only the workers matter. That is what almost ruined the auto industry. Very clear.

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Barefootsies

That is interesting coming from a former telecommunications worker (you) who most likely had a solid union paying job, wages, and benefits for many years.

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baddog

I just realized it was 40 years ago today that I became a member of the CWA.

baddog

Precisely. And I was a union insider, so when I say they have outlived their usefulness you can take it to the bank.

TheDoc

Yes, we know you said that "AFTER" I posted what I did.... you suck at this game.

End of the day, I don't give a shit about your Canadian unions... but... Canadian or not, only a complete idiot thinks they're of no good, have no benefits, and do nothing.

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TheDoc

I know a person that is the head of the union and he sings a different song.... oh he doesn't praise the union... don't get me wrong, but he damn sure doesn't deny what the corp has done to them and the need for the union.

If you were an insider... then you know the corp wasn't playing nice from day one, otherwise, you're full of shit.

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dyna mo

relax, there's really no need to call people idiots about the matter simply because we don't share your view.

baddog

Please do not imply that I am a liar. If you read my post I said they outlived their usefulness, which means at one point in time they were not only useful but desired. Required even. But those days are long gone and I will gladly debate your union head friend about that fact. Debating a bunch of people that have never really been involved is pointless.

MrBottomTooth

I can't help it if you're stupid enough to think an auto union would come into a nursing home and tell them how to properly staff their facility. If you don't know anything about a subject you should probably keep your mouth shut.

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IllTestYourGirls

Both sides love corps. Obama raised something like $50 million in the second quarter of this year. 99.9% of that money came from super pacs and big corporations. .1% from individual donors.

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TheDoc

He's an idiot.. straight up.

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TheDoc

Yeah, because safety standards by unions is something nobody has heard off. Because hospitals don't have staffing requirements... fucking idiot.

Hey, being that you don't know shit about American unions and that is clearly what we're talking about, how about you take your own advice and go fuck yourself.

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IllTestYourGirls

Do unions still proudly use the stamp/sticker that says "Made By White Men"?

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Tom_PM

I think asking do we need unions or not is like asking if we need guardrails or not. Usually we don't, we can't forsee when we might. So do we need to keep using man hours and steel on them or not?

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dyna mo

oh, i thought you were referring to me/ the rest of us that see it differently.

TheDoc

Yeah I read what you posted... So your opinion is now that you're not in one, they're not needed, even though new ones start in areas that need them, all the time.

Btw, I don't think you were an insider, I think you were either a member or a manager, about as involved as most people here.

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TheDoc

oh no, not at all... I would make a new post for that and call everyone out equally if that was the case

I don't care if someone supports or does not support them... but I do find the person/people to be a bit naive of history and current events, if they don't think they aren't needed today. And even more so if they can't find any benefit in them, at all... at that point, I have to classify the person as an idiot.

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dyna mo

<-derp.........//////1111111

Vendzilla

been in two unions, one if we went on strike, we weren't allowed to strike the job sites we were working at
The other were teamsters, they weren't all that great to have around.

Thing is, they did a lot of good with all the millions of dollars they collect from union members to spend on Lawyers to in fluence the politicians of the US and courts. They just haven't done anything lately , except make it hard for a state to function.

But you want to blame big business and the GOP for bringing them down?

Fucking funny to me since the biggest blow to the UNIONS power was the stripping of collective bargaining of Federal Employee's by president Carter, yes a Democrat did it!!

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think about that

MrBottomTooth

That's the whole point retard, there are already strict regulations in place that cover worker safety, staffing requirements, etc. They were all developed and are enforced by various branches of the government.

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TheDoc

As the OP pointed out, here in America, those standards, regs, etc were created & ironed out by the unions. And for those that forgot history, the unions came about because the gov was doing nothing, while corps were fucking us over.

Grats to Canadians for having labor laws before unions... but that's not how it went down in America.

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raymor

Half of what you listed was either strongly opposed by the unions and their democrat puppets or occurred before unions. For instance the civil rights act was filibustered for 54 days by the democrats, at the behest of unions.

The eight hour day was instituted in the mid 1800's. Grant signed a national proclamation in 1869. The AFL wasn't founded until twenty years later and large unions were a product of WWII, in the century.

Sorry, but you're got unions taking credit for things that happened 80 years before the union movement.

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TheDoc

Read the OP again.... You're about a 100 years off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964

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Wizzo

Some of you should compare Pro-Union States with Right to Work states on the number of jobs they are creating. What good is a union if there's no jobs to begin with?

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baddog

No, you are wrong again. Even in my waning years as a union member I thought they were a waste and served to only hold me back.

And you would be wrong, very wrong. WTF is a union manager?

TheDoc

Arizona, right to work state... Tucson, lowest job/housing, growth/sales, etc in the Country. Something like 40b in the hole for the State, some 15 or so for the city... no part of this state is functioning correctly.

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Tempest

I suspect you're wrong on some things... Not sure what the laws are like in the states, but there are always "loopholes"... Typically when you work in some sort of "management" position (or something similar that a company can use as a loophole to get around certain labour laws), there is no such thing as an 8 hr work day, overtime pay etc... And then the company has a culture of pushing employees to work far beyond 40hrs/week and make it "appear" as if it's "required"... Large corporations have so many people working 60+ hours a week as common place... While true that you may be paid more than some other employees, but in comparison, if you were paid as much as those other ones, plus overtime, you'd make far more than your yearly salary.

Frankly, if companies actually employed enough people to get all the work done, there would be no job problem.. I never worked for a company that had an adequate work force for what they were trying to accomplish.

I used to work for a large corporation where this was the culture... They would push as many ppl into some sort of pseudo management position whenever they could. Would have guys bitch at me that they were making less money after they were promoted.. And we were "encouraged" to limit overtime for the guys that were paid for it and to push the team leaders to take up the slack. There were periods of time where we were expected to work 14-16 hour days for weeks and even sometimes I was putting in 30 hour stints. They've been in the news a few times for their "sweat shop" culture... It's actually a US company...

When I think of it, every single major job I had worked the same way.

TheDoc

Oh, so another words, you went to work for a company that already fixed its problems because of the union, thus you were too naive to know what benefits it granted you, because you already had them. Brilliant....

Where did I say union manager? I said, either a member or a manager... Managers aren't normally part of the union but know all the rules because they deal with the employees that are.

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Barefootsies

I worked in the telecommunication industry as well after college.

I have been on both sides of the equation... worked as both union steward and later as management. I strongly feel that unions should be expanded, not eliminated.

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Enough Said.

"Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"