Damned Unions! - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

V_RocKs · 08-10-2011, 12:58 PM

150 ways to get a job done for more money.

Vendzilla · 08-10-2011, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I think most of what he has done will be reversed at some point in the future and replaced with a more fair labor system that still gives people union rights but not under the same ideals they had before.

Walker is a corporatist... all he cares about is the same thing elite corps care about, more profits, less going out, period. He didn't make anything better, he simply introduced an entire new set of problems to deal with in the future rather than actually solving the issues of unions when he had the chance.

Problem with that is what the federal employee's have, they had their collective bargaining taken away by Carter.
Thats how long it's been, I don't see this changing right away.

I think this could be only the beginning of the end for unions in public sectors. I just think it's not going to work in a bad economy. The government has too many bills to pay and getting less back as the unemployment rate stays fixed at above 9% and the kind of money some local governments have to pay for illegal aliens. They have to cut somewhere and the only thing they can cut is the employees benefits. It sucks, but until we start cutting away all the things we pay for that we shouldn't, thats the way it's going to be.
I would rather spend the money to have half decent cops, good teachers and keep the parks clean. But instead, we are blowing money on things like Los Angeles County spending over 600 million dollars a year on illegal aliens. That does not include the hundreds of millions the state and county pay for educating illegal aliens as mandated by federal law. Which put the total around 1.6 billion, this is one county. FAIR puts it at 22 billion for the state.

Joshua G · 08-10-2011, 01:35 PM

if we would just deport democrats, illegal aliens, old people, unemployed people, & fat people, we can be a great country again.

Vendzilla · 08-10-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshgirls

if we would just deport democrats, illegal aliens, old people, unemployed people, & fat people, we can be a great country again.

No, just the illegal aliens that are sponging off the system, fucking over our schools.

Or did you not here about the kids that were sent home for wearing American Flags on Cinco De Mayo, the people celebrating were upset. Fuck Them.

We could send home everyone but the Native Americans, I would still be here

ReGGs · 08-10-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

from the article:

inflated overall costs do not justify something that only accounts for 20-30% of wage inequality.

Says you. I'm sure most people you ask wouldn't mind getting an extra 30% if it meant being in a union which protected their rights. Unions also raise wages for non-union workers because they are able to argue for greater equity due to their ability to negotiate from a stronger point than individuals. Which is EXACTLY why large corporations like wal-mart hate them so much.

"Prior to the 1980s, productivity gains and workers? wages moved in tandem: as workers produced more per hour, they saw a commensurate increase in their earnings. Yet wages and productivity growth have decoupled since the late 1970s. Looking from 1980 to 2008, nationwide worker productivity grew by 75.0 percent, while workers? inflation-adjusted average wages increased by only 22.6 percent, which means that workers were compensated for only 30.2 percent of their productivity gains."

WOW they actually used to pay people for working harder. Imagine that.

"If American workers were rewarded for 100 percent of their increases in labor productivity between 1980 and 2008?as they were during the middle part of the 20th century?average wages would be $28.53 per hour?42.7 percent higher than the average real wage in 2008."

That is the real reason large companies don't want unions. They would have to pay their workers more plain and simple.

http://www.americanprogressaction.or...actsheets.html

Minte · 08-10-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I personally don't care what direction it goes.... all I know is what I've read, and from what I gather, this was phase two, if they got it, it made it easier, if not - the fight was still on, and even if they got it, the fight would continue.

That's not half empty or half full of anything - that's just the way it is.

There is nothing more the democrats can do in Wisconsin to try and wrestle back control.
They have lost every battle. And that is with significant special interest money backing them.

Doesn't it seem odd that these poor downtrodden people were able to ante up over $30m for negative television ads. The local news is saying the dems outspent the republicans 10-1. Where did all that cash come from?

The tides are turning against bleeding heart liberals. And for those of us who actually pay the bills,it's about damn time.

I'm expected to have enough money in the bank to pay my bills. So should the state. And since Walker came to office the changes he has made has done just that. The state no longer is facing certain deficits.

That's the way it is...here.

BFT3K · 08-10-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

There is nothing more the democrats can do in Wisconsin to try and wrestle back control.
They have lost every battle. And that is with significant special interest money backing them.

Doesn't it seem odd that these poor downtrodden people were able to ante up over $30m for negative television ads. The local news is saying the dems outspent the republicans 10-1. Where did all that cash come from?

The tides are turning against bleeding heart liberals. And for those of us who actually pay the bills,it's about damn time.

I'm expected to have enough money in the bank to pay my bills. So should the state. And since Walker came to office the changes he has made has done just that. The state no longer is facing certain deficits.

That's the way it is...here.

Wisconsin Democrats will extend their recall battle into next year with an effort to oust Republican Governor Scott Walker, possibly on Election Day 2012, the state?s party chairman said today.

One day after falling short of a goal to recall three Republican state senators and gain control of the legislative chamber, Wisconsin Democratic Party Chairman Mike Tate said he would like to see a signature-gathering effort to force a vote ?as soon as feasible.?

Continues here...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...t-failure.html

ReGGs · 08-10-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

The tides are turning against bleeding heart liberals. And for those of us who actually pay the bills,it's about damn time.

I'm so tired of hearing this crap. It's the "conservative" states that feed off the government trough much the same way a lot of scrappy independent businessmen wouldn't have a dime if it wasn't for no-bid government contracts provided through bought and paid for political appointments.

So yeah keep feeding from the liberal trough.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...ates_feed.html

TheDoc · 08-10-2011, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

There is nothing more the democrats can do in Wisconsin to try and wrestle back control.
They have lost every battle. And that is with significant special interest money backing them.

Doesn't it seem odd that these poor downtrodden people were able to ante up over $30m for negative television ads. The local news is saying the dems outspent the republicans 10-1. Where did all that cash come from?

The tides are turning against bleeding heart liberals. And for those of us who actually pay the bills,it's about damn time.

I'm expected to have enough money in the bank to pay my bills. So should the state. And since Walker came to office the changes he has made has done just that. The state no longer is facing certain deficits.

That's the way it is...here.

Unions didn't bankrupt the State.... the State bankrupted itself by making bad investments in a market filled with fraud.

They did a great job of blaming someone else for the problems they created.

It's sad you think it was liberals, it's sad you think the State solved its problems.

Sunny Day · 08-10-2011, 02:35 PM

Unions have been around for centuries, they were called guilds.
The minimum wage is BS. The minimum wage, is what a family needs to realistically live on. Say, the Flintstones, the Simpsons, The Beaver Cleaver family. It takes at least $70,000+ a year for a family of 2-4 to live basic American Dream. The average worker in the US makes a lot less than $70K per year
Walmart, America's largest retailer has no unions.
Of course, those pesky employees keep suing, since the Great, Wonderful Walmart makes them clock out after 40 hours to avoid overtime. But then makes them work for free. That's Slavery.
Walmart has no health benefits, but new employees are instructed on how to apply for food stamps and Medicaid.
Walmart has no retirement plan. Since you can't afford to work at Walmart and eat, how are you going to afford a 401K?
I used to eat with some older guys. One who bad mouthed welfare every day. But the govt. paid him to grow Angora Goats, for our next World War II. Same place, at the bar were 2 guys always bitching about "welfare mothers," while bragging about how they were getting federal money to rehab some old buildings, into condos, no one would ever buy.
The UAW was created after GM & Ford pulled so much crap. You never knew from day to day if you would work. You just showed up at the gate and hoped for the best. It was up to the supervisor to let you in. Sometimes the only way you got in, was your wife did his laundry. Sometimes she had to fuck him. That or let your family starve.
Anybody who bad mouths unions is a lackey for the Kochs. Unions aren't perfect, but without them, employees in the US would be working in the same conditions as China.
That's the ticket, fire all adult Americans. Hire children and make them work 16 hours, 7 days a week. So what if the factory burns down with all locked inside. there's plenty more children as people keep making more.
Long as rich, white folk are safe in their mansions, who cares?

TheDoc · 08-10-2011, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Problem with that is what the federal employee's have, they had their collective bargaining taken away by Carter.
Thats how long it's been, I don't see this changing right away.

I think this could be only the beginning of the end for unions in public sectors. I just think it's not going to work in a bad economy. The government has too many bills to pay and getting less back as the unemployment rate stays fixed at above 9% and the kind of money some local governments have to pay for illegal aliens. They have to cut somewhere and the only thing they can cut is the employees benefits. It sucks, but until we start cutting away all the things we pay for that we shouldn't, thats the way it's going to be.
I would rather spend the money to have half decent cops, good teachers and keep the parks clean. But instead, we are blowing money on things like Los Angeles County spending over 600 million dollars a year on illegal aliens. That does not include the hundreds of millions the state and county pay for educating illegal aliens as mandated by federal law. Which put the total around 1.6 billion, this is one county. FAIR puts it at 22 billion for the state.

That's sad... as they aren't the real issue.

As long as Cali has to sell its resources and buy back at a loss, it will always be screwed. Even if you removed every illegal and it cost the State nothing, the State would still be screwed. However, more border security, simply means that money will be moved, not saved and then add in the loss tax revenue, micro economy they do create, etc, even more lost. And the same real problems still in place....

Minte · 08-10-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Wisconsin Democrats will extend their recall battle into next year with an effort to oust Republican Governor Scott Walker, possibly on Election Day 2012, the state?s party chairman said today.

One day after falling short of a goal to recall three Republican state senators and gain control of the legislative chamber, Wisconsin Democratic Party Chairman Mike Tate said he would like to see a signature-gathering effort to force a vote ?as soon as feasible.?

Continues here...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...t-failure.html

I hope that they do. Let them tap their union coffers for another $40 million only to get shot down again. What you people don't understand is that Wisconsin hasn't broken the union. They have only stopped the ability of the public union to bargain collectively.

All of this is available online if you actually care about it.

As far as private unions, I was in one early in my career. Aerospace and Machinists. Every other year they struck the company. This company had over 1100 of the highest paid employees in the state. After the 10th strike in 20 years. They closed te plant.

MrMaxwell · 08-10-2011, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

I hope that they do. Let them tap their union coffers for another $40 million only to get shot down again. What you people don't understand is that Wisconsin hasn't broken the union. They have only stopped the ability of the public union to bargain collectively.

All of this is available online if you actually care about it.

As far as private unions, I was in one early in my career. Aerospace and Machinists. Every other year they struck the company. This company had over 1100 of the highest paid employees in the state. After the 10th strike in 20 years. They closed te plant.

It is very similar here in Wichita. We have people who aren't worth ten cents earning over $20 an hour and then striking over it. The people who do work carry the rest and nothing ever changes.

As an aside - never fly in anything Hawker Beechcraft has made in the past half decade because I am sure that my ex worked there between 2006-2007 and if she helped build it and you fly on it, you're just wrong.

BFT3K · 08-10-2011, 03:25 PM

Unfortunately the old saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" can be applied to almost any situation. - from greedy politicians, to greedy union leaders.

The key is to keep balance. Government is necessary, but corruption is not. Same with unions. Balance is key.

Remove government completely and we will have anarchy. Remove unions completely and the corporate powers that be, will happily take away more of the people's rights, as the "people" will be further divided.

None of our problems can be solved without a balanced approach. Most issues are not as black-and-white as we wish they were.

Cherry7 · 08-11-2011, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunny Day

Unions have been around for centuries, they were called guilds.
The minimum wage is BS. The minimum wage, is what a family needs to realistically live on. Say, the Flintstones, the Simpsons, The Beaver Cleaver family. It takes at least $70,000+ a year for a family of 2-4 to live basic American Dream. The average worker in the US makes a lot less than $70K per year
Walmart, America's largest retailer has no unions.
Of course, those pesky employees keep suing, since the Great, Wonderful Walmart makes them clock out after 40 hours to avoid overtime. But then makes them work for free. That's Slavery.
Walmart has no health benefits, but new employees are instructed on how to apply for food stamps and Medicaid.
Walmart has no retirement plan. Since you can't afford to work at Walmart and eat, how are you going to afford a 401K?
I used to eat with some older guys. One who bad mouthed welfare every day. But the govt. paid him to grow Angora Goats, for our next World War II. Same place, at the bar were 2 guys always bitching about "welfare mothers," while bragging about how they were getting federal money to rehab some old buildings, into condos, no one would ever buy.
The UAW was created after GM & Ford pulled so much crap. You never knew from day to day if you would work. You just showed up at the gate and hoped for the best. It was up to the supervisor to let you in. Sometimes the only way you got in, was your wife did his laundry. Sometimes she had to fuck him. That or let your family starve.
Anybody who bad mouths unions is a lackey for the Kochs. Unions aren't perfect, but without them, employees in the US would be working in the same conditions as China.
That's the ticket, fire all adult Americans. Hire children and make them work 16 hours, 7 days a week. So what if the factory burns down with all locked inside. there's plenty more children as people keep making more.
Long as rich, white folk are safe in their mansions, who cares?

Thank you for the interesting post....

12clicks · 08-11-2011, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReGGs

I'm so tired of hearing this crap. It's the "conservative" states that feed off the government trough much the same way a lot of scrappy independent businessmen wouldn't have a dime if it wasn't for no-bid government contracts provided through bought and paid for political appointments.

So yeah keep feeding from the liberal trough.

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...ates_feed.html

this uneducated argument comes up often.
take NJ for example. You have a minority of successful people propping up the state and voting conservative and then you have the rabble in towns like camden, jersey city, trenton, etc. etc. leeching off of the system and voting democratic.
Your chart is an accurate lie.
a misstating of the facts to convey an inaccurate picture.

raymor · 08-11-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

I don't even know where to start.... so I'll start with, wtf does that bullshit have to do with you being off by a 100 years of the op or any damn subject in this thread? Not a damn thing, that's what!

And I wish dems supported civil rights and they were good guys? I'm shocked, I had no idea I felt this way... heck, I had no idea that I even cared, shit... I had no idea I was a democrat, I'm not registered as one, so this is all pretty new to me.

Next time, you should just say oops, my bad, I read it wrong... rather than coming up with stupid as long winded post where you assume you have a clue about someone you don't know.

I wouldn't want to be on the side of misinformation... so I'll stay put.

In that case I don't know what you mean by "a hundred years off."
The OP stated that the unions were directly responsible for the civil rights act of 1964. I showed that in fact their side, the left, tried to stop it. Please explain how that's a hundred years off.

The OP also claimed that the unions were responsible for the eight hour day standard. I mentioned that president Grant made tge right hour proclamation long before powerful unions existed. Please explain your comment.

Given the few words you said, I guessed that you meant I was confusing 1964 with 1866, that the left actually supported civil rights in '64. People who claim that simply don't know recent history, or wish it were different and claim their wishes as fact.

TheDoc · 08-11-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymor

In that case I don't know what you mean by "a hundred years off."
The OP stated that the unions were directly responsible for the civil rights act of 1964. I showed that in fact their side, the left, tried to stop it. Please explain how that's a hundred years off.

The OP also claimed that the unions were responsible for the eight hour day standard. I mentioned that president Grant made tge right hour proclamation long before powerful unions existed. Please explain your comment.

Given the few words you said, I guessed that you meant I was confusing 1964 with 1866, that the left actually supported civil rights in '64. People who claim that simply don't know recent history, or wish it were different and claim their wishes as fact.

The fact that you even attempted to show dems were against it is, pointless, then referencing history a hundred years before, is even more pointless. That's was the point.

Moving on... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight-hour_day

"In the United States, Philadelphia carpenters went on strike in 1791 for the ten-hour day. By the 1830s, this had become a general demand. In 1835, workers in Philadelphia organized a general strike, led by Irish coal heavers. Their banners read, From 6 to 6, ten hours work and two hours for meals. Labor movement publications called for an eight-hour day as early as 1836. Boston ship carpenters, although not unionized, achieved an eight-hour day in 1842."

"....On May 19, 1869, Grant signed a National Eight Hour Law Proclamation."

78 after they first went on strike.... thank you unions!

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 09:37 AM

remember reading that story about american military bombing striking unions.. in america..

raymor · 08-11-2011, 10:01 AM

The Flintstones, Cleaver post is excellent in that it makes so strikingly clear the heart if the disagreement. The poster says that minimum wage should support an average family. On the other side I recognize that I started at minimum wage when I read fifteen, working a job that taught me basics like showing up on time. By showing up and doing my job, I earned a raise within two months and two years later I was earning twice minimum wage. From where I sit, minimum wage is the MINIMUM for a minimally useful employee, probably a teenager just starting out. It's also the minimum cost to hire a drunk who calls in all of the time.

It seems to me that the sixteen year old and the lazy slob who doesn't bother to show up on time do not produce enough to support a family. If you need to support a family, you need to show up on time and learn your job so you'll be worth a lot more than minimum wage. Regardless of "right" or "wrong", the claim that minimum wage should support a family with a couple kids shows clearly where rhe underlying thinking differs.

I don't need a union to set my wage and I didn't need one when I was flipping burgers because I worked hard to be worth what I needed to earn. When I left one burger place, I had two other job offers within an hour.

I am curious, assume minimum wage were set high enough to support a family of four, say $20 / hour. Do you think teenagers would be paid $20 / hour to do work that's worth only $8, with companies losing money on every employee, or do you think that the young, the drunk and the lazy simply wouldn't be hired at all?

I know the answer for our company.

dyna mo · 08-11-2011, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

remember reading that story about american military bombing striking unions.. in america..

what story would that be?

JamesGw · 08-11-2011, 10:12 AM

It's insane how much more money you can make by being union. I knew a girl that got ~150/hr doing sheet metal because he was union. After he moved to an area without unions, he would have been doing 30/hr for the same work.

raymor · 08-11-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

...
"In the United States, Philadelphia carpenters went on strike in 1791 for the ten-hour day. By the 1830s, this had become a general demand.
...
Boston ship carpenters, although not unionized, achieved an eight-hour day in 1842."

"....On May 19, 1869, Grant signed a National Eight Hour Law Proclamation."

78 after they first went on strike.... thank you unions!

Thank you for clarifying. I believe I understand your point now. Your point is that a
local guild in Philadelphia was helpful to it's dozens of members long before the
modern age of powerful national unions and that was also before the eight hour day
was implemented nationally under Grant. I wonder how a few dozen Philadelphia
carpenters in the 1700s relate to the 11 million member AFL-CIO today. Should the
AFL-CIO get credit for what a few dozen Philadelphia carpenters did in 1791, because
they could both be called "unions"?

I wonder if small local unions would be as helpful today as they were around the
time the country was founded. Of course, I don't know what problems those small
local unions caused back then. Maybe they caused big problems, maybe not, I don't know.
Maybe that style of small local union would be more helpful today. I don't know.
Did the modern age of national mega-unions as a result of WWII ruin a good thing?

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

what story would that be?

the story of the us military bombing union strikers.. i am sure you have as much access to google as i do

Sly · 08-11-2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

the story of the us military bombing union strikers.. i am sure you have as much access to google as i do

Not finding anything.

Why would you mention an obscure story and then refuse to post information about it?

dyna mo · 08-11-2011, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

the story of the us military bombing union strikers.. i am sure you have as much access to google as i do

of course i have google and i used it in this instance- results = nada

http://www.google.com/search?sourcei...triking+unions

thus my asking you what story are you talking about.

Sly · 08-11-2011, 10:53 AM

Okay, I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...military_force

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 10:55 AM

oh weird.. you guys are having trouble pulling up results

how.. odd.

baddog · 08-11-2011, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

what story would that be?

Back in the day, union busting used to be a lot harsher than what WI is doing today. While I am confident the US military never got involved in union busting, he may be referring to Hooverville and when the Army was called in to remove the occupants during the Great Depression

Quote:

Settlements of unemployed men sprang up and were dubbed "Hoovervilles". The army was used to remove war veterans who had marched to Washington, DC, to ask for advance payment of their war bonuses. Hoover stuck to his principles and continued to urge local and state action. The states proved unable to cope. As conditions worsened, Hoover established the Reconstruction Finance Corporation to lend money to firms that could offer collateral, but it had little impact.

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:09 AM

woo forgive my sassiness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

even this is incorrect lol private planes in 1921 with access to ordinance from ww1? haha

baddog · 08-11-2011, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

woo forgive my sassiness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain

even this is incorrect lol private planes in 1921 with access to ordinance from ww1? haha

You like to spin everything you can to be anti-US even if it means making shit up.

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:13 AM

here is a 'less edited' version of the story

http://www.redneckpossum.com/BattleOfBlairMountain.htm

victors do write the history apparently

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

You like to spin everything you can to be anti-US even if it means making shit up.

a personal attack based on nothing? why baddog, i am disappoint

dyna mo · 08-11-2011, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

oh weird.. you guys are having trouble pulling up results

how.. odd.

no reason to be defensive.

you can make this about my google skills all you want and maybe i am not the top notch googler, yawn, but i simply inquired as to what story you are talking about.

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

no reason to be defensive.

you can make this about my google skills all you want and maybe i am not the top notch googler, yawn, but i simply inquired as to what story you are talking about.

i make what about you? i was stating that i had a lot more difficulty finding this information this time around than i did before, why i was apologizing for my sassiness

dyna mo · 08-11-2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

here is a 'less edited' version of the story

http://www.redneckpossum.com/BattleOfBlairMountain.htm

victors do write the history apparently

The fledgling United States Army Air Service dropped a few pipe and tear gas bombs as a demonstration meant to overawe the labor organizers.

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dyna mo

The fledgling United States Army Air Service dropped a few pipe and tear gas bombs as a demonstration meant to overawe the labor organizers.

keep reading

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:20 AM

i like this sentence the best:

"On orders from the famous General Billy Mitchell, Army bombers from Maryland were also used to disperse the miners, a rare example of Air Power being used by the federal government against US citizens."

dyna mo · 08-11-2011, 11:23 AM

i read the whole thing.

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:25 AM

wonderful.

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:26 AM

so is this tear gas or pipebomb?

guess you missed the pictures?

baddog · 08-11-2011, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

i like this sentence the best:

"On orders from the famous General Billy Mitchell, Army bombers from Maryland were also used to disperse the miners, a rare example of Air Power being used by the federal government against US citizens."

You provided two links and each said the planes were there for different reasons. Naturally, you picked the one that implied "american military bombing striking unions."

Since you were not there, you do not know what really happened. History = his story. I know which story you believe.

12clicks · 08-11-2011, 11:32 AM

..............

Sly · 08-11-2011, 11:34 AM

So now we are talking about the possibility of the US military bombing striking unions 50+ years ago?

What that has to do with current union politics, I have no idea.

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

You provided two links and each said the planes were there for different reasons. Naturally, you picked the one that implied "american military bombing striking unions."

Since you were not there, you do not know what really happened. History = his story. I know which story you believe.

if you weren't either, why are you telling me what i do and do not know?

before i mentioned this you were all 'the US military would NEVER', but we know that is now not true as these magical 'private planes' were armed with military ordinance.

it's funny you bring up the idea of 'twisting history'

_Richard_ · 08-11-2011, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

So now we are talking about the possibility of the US military bombing striking unions 50+ years ago?

What that has to do with current union politics, I have no idea.

current union politics? or the same politics all along?

Vendzilla · 08-11-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

That's sad... as they aren't the real issue.

As long as Cali has to sell its resources and buy back at a loss, it will always be screwed. Even if you removed every illegal and it cost the State nothing, the State would still be screwed. However, more border security, simply means that money will be moved, not saved and then add in the loss tax revenue, micro economy they do create, etc, even more lost. And the same real problems still in place....

We don't need to add more border control, we need to shut off the silver spoon, we voted to pass prop 187 but we were denied by one fucktard judge. It would have saved the state BILLIONS. The border security is more for control drug and gun traffic and anyone attemping it should be shot. It won't stop them, but enough of them get shot, less of them to keep trying

dyna mo · 08-11-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

so is this tear gas or pipebomb?

guess you missed the pictures?

i wouldn't even hazard a guess as to what that is. and there were no pics on the link i clicked so yes, i missed the pictures. :-(

baddog · 08-11-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

before i mentioned this you were all 'the US military would NEVER', but we know that is now not true as these magical 'private planes' were armed with military ordinance.

and you still have not proven that the US military EVER BOMBED strikers. Crowd control in a riot is not an act of war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

current union politics? or the same politics all along?

More of your bullshit . . . I can take care of this

Barry-xlovecam · 08-11-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Feb 28, 2011 ? Just 17 percent of voters in November were from a union household, down from 23 percent in the 2006 midterm elections, according to national ...

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...holds-in-2010/

I fail to see the relevance today to the current economic situation.
Stale talking point.

You are assuming that the union household voters form a cohesive voting block -- they don't FYI.

08-10-2011, 02:35 PM	#160
Sunny Day Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,406	Yeah screw unions, I got mine HA! HA! Unions have been around for centuries, they were called guilds. The minimum wage is BS. The minimum wage, is what a family needs to realistically live on. Say, the Flintstones, the Simpsons, The Beaver Cleaver family. It takes at least $70,000+ a year for a family of 2-4 to live basic American Dream. The average worker in the US makes a lot less than $70K per year Walmart, America's largest retailer has no unions. Of course, those pesky employees keep suing, since the Great, Wonderful Walmart makes them clock out after 40 hours to avoid overtime. But then makes them work for free. That's Slavery. Walmart has no health benefits, but new employees are instructed on how to apply for food stamps and Medicaid. Walmart has no retirement plan. Since you can't afford to work at Walmart and eat, how are you going to afford a 401K? I used to eat with some older guys. One who bad mouthed welfare every day. But the govt. paid him to grow Angora Goats, for our next World War II. Same place, at the bar were 2 guys always bitching about "welfare mothers," while bragging about how they were getting federal money to rehab some old buildings, into condos, no one would ever buy. The UAW was created after GM & Ford pulled so much crap. You never knew from day to day if you would work. You just showed up at the gate and hoped for the best. It was up to the supervisor to let you in. Sometimes the only way you got in, was your wife did his laundry. Sometimes she had to fuck him. That or let your family starve. Anybody who bad mouths unions is a lackey for the Kochs. Unions aren't perfect, but without them, employees in the US would be working in the same conditions as China. That's the ticket, fire all adult Americans. Hire children and make them work 16 hours, 7 days a week. So what if the factory burns down with all locked inside. there's plenty more children as people keep making more. Long as rich, white folk are safe in their mansions, who cares?

08-11-2011, 10:01 AM	#170
raymor Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,745	The Flintstones, Cleaver post is excellent in that it makes so strikingly clear the heart if the disagreement. The poster says that minimum wage should support an average family. On the other side I recognize that I started at minimum wage when I read fifteen, working a job that taught me basics like showing up on time. By showing up and doing my job, I earned a raise within two months and two years later I was earning twice minimum wage. From where I sit, minimum wage is the MINIMUM for a minimally useful employee, probably a teenager just starting out. It's also the minimum cost to hire a drunk who calls in all of the time. It seems to me that the sixteen year old and the lazy slob who doesn't bother to show up on time do not produce enough to support a family. If you need to support a family, you need to show up on time and learn your job so you'll be worth a lot more than minimum wage. Regardless of "right" or "wrong", the claim that minimum wage should support a family with a couple kids shows clearly where rhe underlying thinking differs. I don't need a union to set my wage and I didn't need one when I was flipping burgers because I worked hard to be worth what I needed to earn. When I left one burger place, I had two other job offers within an hour. I am curious, assume minimum wage were set high enough to support a family of four, say $20 / hour. Do you think teenagers would be paid $20 / hour to do work that's worth only $8, with companies losing money on every employee, or do you think that the young, the drunk and the lazy simply wouldn't be hired at all? I know the answer for our company. __________________ For historical display only. This information is not current: support@bettercgi.com ICQ 7208627 Strongbox - The next generation in site security Throttlebox - The next generation in bandwidth control Clonebox - Backup and disaster recovery on steroids

08-11-2011, 10:12 AM	#172
JamesGw Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 1,237	It's insane how much more money you can make by being union. I knew a girl that got ~150/hr doing sheet metal because he was union. After he moved to an area without unions, he would have been doing 30/hr for the same work. __________________ Giggles.com has a huge selection of sex toys. Need backlinks? Ask to guest post on our adult blog.

08-11-2011, 10:53 AM	#177
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,289	Okay, I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...military_force __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Wanted: CCBill pay sites for sale

08-11-2011, 11:26 AM	#191
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,986	so is this tear gas or pipebomb? guess you missed the pictures? Last edited by _Richard_; 08-11-2011 at 11:27 AM..

08-10-2011, 12:58 PM	#151
V_RocKs Damn Right I Kiss Ass! Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Cowtown, USA Posts: 32,391	150 ways to get a job done for more money.

08-10-2011, 01:35 PM	#153
Joshua G dumb libs love censorship Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 8,198	if we would just deport democrats, illegal aliens, old people, unemployed people, & fat people, we can be a great country again.

08-10-2011, 03:25 PM	#164
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	Unfortunately the old saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely" can be applied to almost any situation. - from greedy politicians, to greedy union leaders. The key is to keep balance. Government is necessary, but corruption is not. Same with unions. Balance is key. Remove government completely and we will have anarchy. Remove unions completely and the corporate powers that be, will happily take away more of the people's rights, as the "people" will be further divided. None of our problems can be solved without a balanced approach. Most issues are not as black-and-white as we wish they were.

08-11-2011, 09:37 AM	#169
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,986	remember reading that story about american military bombing striking unions.. in america..

08-11-2011, 10:55 AM	#178
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,986	oh weird.. you guys are having trouble pulling up results how.. odd.

08-11-2011, 11:09 AM	#180
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,986	woo forgive my sassiness http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain even this is incorrect lol private planes in 1921 with access to ordinance from ww1? haha

08-11-2011, 11:13 AM	#182
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,986	here is a 'less edited' version of the story http://www.redneckpossum.com/BattleOfBlairMountain.htm victors do write the history apparently

08-11-2011, 11:20 AM	#188
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,986	i like this sentence the best: "On orders from the famous General Billy Mitchell, Army bombers from Maryland were also used to disperse the miners, a rare example of Air Power being used by the federal government against US citizens."

08-11-2011, 11:23 AM	#189
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 63,911	i read the whole thing.

08-11-2011, 11:25 AM	#190
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver Posts: 30,986	wonderful.

08-11-2011, 11:32 AM	#193
12clicks Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: God's right hand Posts: 19,780	.............. __________________ I'm not a dinosaur, I'm a crocodile. I've seen dinosaurs come and go and I'm left unimpressed.

08-11-2011, 11:34 AM	#194
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,289	So now we are talking about the possibility of the US military bombing striking unions 50+ years ago? What that has to do with current union politics, I have no idea. __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Wanted: CCBill pay sites for sale