This is how to solve problems in the Euro zone. - GoFuckYourself.com

Paul Markham · 12-09-2011, 02:09 AM

Create a single currency, don't bother with a single economic set of rules, over spend, borrow too much and get into financial debt that will bring the currency down.

Then tell a country outside the currency to have to pay for your screw up.

Effectively this is what the French and Germans were planning to do with their tax on the financial institutions of the UK.

The fault of the Euro zone lies with Brussels in not have strict rules, the countries who borrowed money way above their ability to repay, thinking others would rescue them, the politicians who continually bribed voters to keep them happy so they kept voting for them and then the banks. Not the other way around. If the banks had said no, the countries with massive public spending debts would be very poor and look very poor.

No worries, it will all solve itself. Croatia just joined, is this another nose in the trough?

nico-t · 12-09-2011, 05:29 AM

You are a genius, Paul. You should be in politics. Paul Markham: Minister of economics, toilet placement and internet porn.

What do you think of all the free porn on the internet nowadays? I am really curious what your ideas on this are.

ottopottomouse · 12-09-2011, 05:53 AM

Good job the government have just announced they are scrapping pension payments to expats to save some money then I suppose.

Paul Markham · 12-09-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nico-t

You are a genius, Paul. You should be in politics. Paul Markham: Minister of economics, toilet placement and internet porn.

What do you think of all the free porn on the internet nowadays? I am really curious what your ideas on this are.

The shit is piling up and it will soon start hitting te fan. How much of Greece's, Italy's, Spain's, Portugal's and who ever else decides they need a bail out, will Holland anti up?

Holland = You.

Could never be in politics. Those guys are far better then me at cocks ups and denying cock ups.

TheSquealer · 12-09-2011, 09:23 AM

Jesus.. first you solved all problems in the adult biz and then moved on to solving all European monetary problems?

Christ, whats next? I expect within 2 weeks you'll be spilling the secrets of time travel.

Klen · 12-09-2011, 10:48 AM

We didn't "just joined",we still have referendum to pass,and after that we will join 1.7.2013,and there is a big chance how EU will collapse before we join.

mafia_man · 12-09-2011, 11:34 AM

The whole point of the ECB verifying budgets is to stop this happening again.

There should be a UK transaction tax but it should go to the treasury not to the EU.

Paul Markham · 12-09-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

The whole point of the ECB verifying budgets is to stop this happening again.

There should be a UK transaction tax but it should go to the treasury not to the EU.

And the big financial institutions decide to move to Hong Kong, leaving the UK with even less. Got any more bright ideas?

They are no tied to the UK, they can move anytime they like. Have you heard of the Internet? It's big communication type thing that ties the world together much closer than the wind and sail did in the past. Don't understand either.

But I think the banks might move if they get hammered to hard.

Paul Markham · 12-09-2011, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KlenTelaris

We didn't "just joined",we still have referendum to pass,and after that we will join 1.7.2013,and there is a big chance how EU will collapse before we join.

When is the referendum and what do you think the chances are?

IMO the EU is weighed down now by countries that can't contribute enough into the pot. Adding more seems crazy.

mafia_man · 12-09-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

And the big financial institutions decide to move to Hong Kong, leaving the UK with even less. Got any more bright ideas?

They are no tied to the UK, they can move anytime they like. Have you heard of the Internet? It's big communication type thing that ties the world together much closer than the wind and sail did in the past. Don't understand either.

But I think the banks might move if they get hammered to hard.

They're not going anywhere Paul. They say that every time regulation is proposed.

If they want to fuck off to Hong Kong or Singapore then let them. Fuck knows the Chinese government or the Singaporeans won't bail them out when they need it.

They love the UK. It lets them do risky investments with big returns backed by the tax payer if it goes wrong.

MaDalton · 12-09-2011, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

They're not going anywhere Paul. They say that every time regulation is proposed.

If they want to fuck off to Hong Kong or Singapore then let them. Fuck knows the Chinese government or the Singaporeans won't bail them out when they need it.

They love the UK. It lets them do risky investments with big returns backed by the tax payer if it goes wrong.

^^^^ this

Cherry7 · 12-09-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

They're not going anywhere Paul. They say that every time regulation is proposed.

If they want to fuck off to Hong Kong or Singapore then let them. Fuck knows the Chinese government or the Singaporeans won't bail them out when they need it.

They love the UK. It lets them do risky investments with big returns backed by the tax payer if it goes wrong.

I hope you know you are talking to a man who does not believe in reading books.

Paul Markham · 12-09-2011, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

They're not going anywhere Paul. They say that every time regulation is proposed.

If they want to fuck off to Hong Kong or Singapore then let them. Fuck knows the Chinese government or the Singaporeans won't bail them out when they need it.

They love the UK. It lets them do risky investments with big returns backed by the tax payer if it goes wrong.

Well the rest of Europe is now about to bail out banks, so not just the UK.

You don't know what the Chinese will do to get them to move over. Still how long before China builds it's financial institutions to rival and over take the City of London?

The UK banks might stop lending money to the UK or EU. Now that would be even worse.

Unlike everyone else, I don't blame the banks. They just lent money to people often on a spending craze who didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of repaying the loans. Like Greece, Ital................. You know the list.

If the banks hadn't of lent like they did, the amount of money being spent by the citizens of most of the EU would of been far lower. We were all running around enjoying the money flooding into our coffers. Many maxed out their personal CC, now they have maxed out their countries CC.

Cherry7 · 12-09-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Unlike everyone else, I don't blame the banks. .

That is because you have not read anything about how the crisis happened and wallow in your ignorance.

porno jew · 12-09-2011, 12:25 PM

mind = blown.

mafia_man · 12-09-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Well the rest of Europe is now about to bail out banks, so not just the UK.

Countries are being bailed out. But even if they weren't it's not the end of the world. Look at Argentina. It said fuck you to it's creditors and after a while it's back on it's feet. Nobody will lend to them mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

You don't know what the Chinese will do to get them to move over. Still how long before China builds it's financial institutions to rival and over take the City of London?

After the handover in 1997 the UK worked hard to get the Chinese to agree not to interfere with the HK economy. They said they wouldn't for 50 years under the "one country, two systems" scheme.

Despite this HSBC's headquarters is a building designed so that it can be dismantled and moved. Nobody trusts the Chinese government. They play a much bigger role in the economy and are tighter on regulation. Banks will not be able to operate freely in a post democratic Hong Kong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The UK banks might stop lending money to the UK or EU. Now that would be even worse.

They have. That's why the government is underwriting mortgages for first time buyers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Unlike everyone else, I don't blame the banks. They just lent money to people often on a spending craze who didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of repaying the loans. Like Greece, Ital................. You know the list.

If the banks hadn't of lent like they did, the amount of money being spent by the citizens of most of the EU would of been far lower. We were all running around enjoying the money flooding into our coffers. Many maxed out their personal CC, now they have maxed out their countries CC.

There's a contradiction in there. See if you can spot it.

datingleads · 12-09-2011, 01:41 PM

Lefties want everyone else to pay for their fuck ups... surely not?

Klen · 12-09-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

When is the referendum and what do you think the chances are?

IMO the EU is weighed down now by countries that can't contribute enough into the pot. Adding more seems crazy.

Probably pass since none of anti-eu parties passed into parliament on elections before few days,but since that will occur in around month or two things things can change.

papill0n · 12-09-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nico-t

You are a genius, Paul. You should be in politics. Paul Markham: Minister of economics, toilet placement and internet porn.

What do you think of all the free porn on the internet nowadays? I am really curious what your ideas on this are.

Paul Markham · 12-09-2011, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

Countries are being bailed out. But even if they weren't it's not the end of the world. Look at Argentina. It said fuck you to it's creditors and after a while it's back on it's feet. Nobody will lend to them mind.

Stop thinking in countries, this is about the Euro zone. If it was just a country they would devalue and it would all be fine. Can't be bothered to debate the rest. Time will tell.

Frank21 · 12-09-2011, 03:35 PM

lol this is where i quit reading.
If the bankers would not let the EU countrys and especialy taxpayers pay for the bankers debt, then the EU would be perfectly fine.
90% of the so called European debt is debt made by bankers, not by the taxpayers themself.
If the EU would not

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Create a single currency, don't bother with a single economic set of rules, over spend, borrow too much and get into financial debt that will bring the currency down.

Then tell a country outside the currency to have to pay for your screw up.

By the way it is not ment to solve the european crisis the plan is to bankrupt the EUSSR and the USA. Lower the western countrys and enrich the poor countrys so everyone will have the same read be poor and work for third world wages.

Jarmusch · 12-09-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nico-t

You are a genius, Paul. You should be in politics. Paul Markham: Minister of economics, toilet placement and internet porn.

That wouldn't be such a bad thing. Paul could pass a bill to end free porn and we would all go back to 1996.

mafia_man · 12-09-2011, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datingleads

Lefties want everyone else to pay for their fuck ups... surely not?

When did the "lefties" fuck up?

datingleads · 12-09-2011, 04:44 PM

You telling me Europe isn't run by lefties?

djroof · 12-09-2011, 04:53 PM

this problem has not solution... the only solution for all is the WORLD CURRENCY...

mafia_man · 12-09-2011, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datingleads

You telling me Europe isn't run by lefties?

All those socialist policies must have gotten past me.

Oh that's right the EU's largest group is the European People's Party which is according to Wikipedia is a " pro-European centre-right European political party".

Dcat · 12-09-2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank21

By the way it is not ment to solve the european crisis the plan is to bankrupt the EUSSR and the USA. Lower the western countrys and enrich the poor countrys so everyone will have the same read be poor and work for third world wages.

Exactly! There will be NO END to this financial crisis until all nations are completely and utterly bankrupt, and enslaved to the bankers. Only after that can the banking criminals sign us (against our will and better judgment) onto a World Currency & World Government.

The talking points will run along the lines of "we can't have a financial union unless we have a stronger political union" because look what has happened to the Euro Zone. "Some countries had different laws, regulations, blah, blah ..and that created a system of financial have, and have-not countries." Their solution then will be to strip away sovereignty from all member countries so they can be dictated to and controlled both politically and financially. This is in fact what is going on right now, with the installation of the "technocrats" (just another name for banking dictators, or dictators beholden to bankers) to rule Greece and Italy (Papademos, and Mario Monti).

datingleads · 12-09-2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

All those socialist policies must have gotten past me.

Oh that's right the EU's largest group is the European People's Party which is according to Wikipedia is a " pro-European centre-right European political party".

And what exactly have they done that you think represents the people in Europe who consider themselves to be on the right of politics?

mafia_man · 12-09-2011, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datingleads

And what exactly have they done that you think represents the people in Europe who consider themselves to be on the right of politics?

Massive deregulation of markets.

AllAboutCams · 12-09-2011, 06:27 PM

I hate the idea of the uk been in europe i also hate the idea the uk having the same currency as everyone else in europe

mafia_man · 12-09-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxupdate

I hate the idea of the uk been in europe i also hate the idea the uk having the same currency as everyone else in europe

Why....?

Paul Markham · 12-10-2011, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank21

lol this is where i quit reading.
If the bankers would not let the EU countrys and especialy taxpayers pay for the bankers debt, then the EU would be perfectly fine.
90% of the so called European debt is debt made by bankers, not by the taxpayers themself.
If the EU would not

By the way it is not ment to solve the european crisis the plan is to bankrupt the EUSSR and the USA. Lower the western countrys and enrich the poor countrys so everyone will have the same read be poor and work for third world wages.

Yes, the bankers didn't have the debts. The lenders had the debts, they couldn't repay.

Yes the banks should of stopped lending to these countries. Because I expect bankers to have more brains that politicians and voters. Still the bankers knew there was a big chance countries who were not in debt, would bail them out. Still makes the countries and the voters responsible ultimately.

True about lowering the wealth of the rich countries. Those who had terrible economies and GDP, borrowed to a level that was unsustainable. If they didn't know they were borrowing way above their ability to repay, why were they even running the country? The rich nations stood back and did nothing. Just allowed it to carry on.

Now we have all those in debt struggling to repay the debt, threatening the banks and all of our economies. If you have anything in a bank account, you're at risk. The more you have with the financial sector the more you risk. My pensions have been downgraded by a big slice, being level headed about it all, by thinking the leap they took was based on the loans. So a false leap.

If you have a bank account, insurance, pensions, etc you're directly effected. If your income relies on people's ability to spend on a little luxury, like porn, your income might be squeezed. Because people in the poorer sector of the EU over borrowed.

The actual idea of making Europe one State, like the USA is flawed. If not stupid and that's the ultimate aim of these politicians.

America financially is a far more level playing field than Europe. America is a very new country, people who live there are Americans, tot Texans, Californians or Idahoans first. They have a common language, a worker in Boston can up tools and move to San Diego to get a job.

Europe is a collection of countries with very different cultures, history, languages, personalities and financial levels. The differences change as soon as you cross a border.

Thinking that politicians who can hardly agree on the recipe for a goulash can run a single currency is ludicrous. The ultimate blame lies with the bureaucrats who dreamed it was possible. Without have a clue what they were doing. Even the "Father of the "Euro" Jacques Delores thinks this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

When did the "lefties" fuck up?

When they thought they could join Europe together as one Socialist Union.

Paul Markham · 12-10-2011, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xxxupdate

I hate the idea of the uk been in europe i also hate the idea the uk having the same currency as everyone else in europe

Why?

Because with your command of English, it can't be your first language. Mine is far from perfect, being a cockney, still better than yours.

I hate the idea of the UK being in the EU. I also hate the idea of the UK joining any single EU currency.

Not perfect, just better.

Mafia Man. Bankers are generally cleverer than politicians, unless the bankers are politicians as well. They are meant to be not trusted. Therefore allowing them to lend money to people who don't have a chance of repaying it is the fault of regulators. Aesop knew this.

Quote:

The Wolf And The Lamb

WOLF, meeting with a Lamb astray from the fold, resolved not to lay violent hands on him, but to find some plea to justify to the Lamb the Wolf's right to eat him. He thus addressed him: "Sirrah, last year you grossly insulted me." "Indeed," bleated the Lamb in a mournful tone of voice, "I was not then born." Then said the Wolf, "You feed in my pasture." "No, good sir," replied the Lamb, "I have not yet tasted grass." Again said the Wolf, "You drink of my well." "No," exclaimed the Lamb, "I never yet drank water, for as yet my mother's milk is both food and drink to me." Upon which the Wolf seized him and ate him up, saying, "Well! I won't remain supper less, even though you refute every one of my imputations."

The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny.

Quote:

The Scorpion and the Frog is a fable about a scorpion asking a frog to carry him across a river. The frog is afraid of being stung during the trip, but the scorpion argues that if it stung the frog, the frog would sink and the scorpion would drown. The frog agrees and begins carrying the scorpion, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both. When asked why, the scorpion points out that this is its nature. The fable is used to illustrate the position that the behaviour of some creatures is irrepressible, no matter how they are treated and no matter what the consequences.

Never trust a villain. The fool who does, only has himself to blame. So is the fool at fault if he's running a country or voting for those who will. Or the banker for taking advantage?

Many here don't feel much remorse for misleading a surfer for $30. Where's the difference? Besides the amount.

TrashyContent · 12-10-2011, 01:50 AM

I honestly believe if there is ever "First Contact" it will be Paul Markham who meet the first alians... which in short means "we're fucked!"

Paul Markham · 12-10-2011, 03:17 AM

Who's to blame the most?

A shopaholic goes into a bank and asks for a loan, because he can't spend at the level he likes with his limited income. The banker asks the shopaholic about his incomes and expenditure. It's clear the shopaholic can't repay the loan and banker asks "How do you plan to repay the loan?"

The shopaholic points out he's a member of a much wealthier family who will back his loans, in fact he has a rich uncle who will always bail him out. So the banker loans the money, knowing the rich uncle will repay the debt.

Is the banker to blame for being a banker?

Is the shopaholic to blame for being a shopaholic?

Is the rich uncle to blame for being a fool?

This is the problem here. We had political leaders who were shopaholics. Many like George Brown were spending money they didn't have on projects that would never produce a profit and calling it "Investing". They weren't they were pursuing a dream, a political dogma and bribing voters to re elect them.

Can you blame the bankers for lending the money?

Or George Brown for spending it things that would never show a profit and always require spending?

Or the politicians who kept him in a position where he could spend so far above his level?

Or the voters who kept them in office?

Blaming the bankers is diverting the blame to where it really belongs.

Quote:

When did the "lefties" fuck up?

When they spent more than the businessmen could afford to repay.

It really is that simple. It's great to have wonderful hospitals where everyone has their own room, lots of high paid nurses and doctor. Schools that rival the best private schools with teachers all on 6 figures a year and afterwards everyone can go to the best universities possible. Town Halls are wonderful, with someone in there to look after every aspect of our lives. Unemployed people getting benefits that make them just as comfortable as those who work. Same goes for the less fortunate, like me, a registered invalid. And everything else the "Lefties" dream of, so from cradle to grave they can care for us.

It's a beautiful and wonderful dream. But who pays for it?

mafia_man · 12-10-2011, 06:22 AM

Paul. The EU is not a socialist bloc. If you still think it is, go and read the definition of socialism.

The EU is a neo-liberal capitalist bloc. Promotes trade between countries and uses taxes as it's funding just like every other government program.

Taxes != socialism as many of our American cousins would let us believe.

datingleads · 12-10-2011, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

Paul. The EU is not a socialist bloc. If you still think it is, go and read the definition of socialism.

The EU is a neo-liberal capitalist bloc. Promotes trade between countries and uses taxes as it's funding just like every other government program.

Taxes != socialism as many of our American cousins would let us believe.

You should maybe take a look at the backgrounds of some of the commision.

there are plenty of socialists and communists in there and they are the ones who hold the real power. Even the ones masquerading as centre right have histories on the far left.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=G7oRzBfgDyk

mafia_man · 12-10-2011, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datingleads

You should maybe take a look at the backgrounds of some of the commision.

there are plenty of socialists and communists in there and they are the ones who hold the real power. Even the ones masquerading as centre right have histories on the far left.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=G7oRzBfgDyk

In name only.

Socialist like New Labour is socialist. Which is, not at all.

datingleads · 12-10-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

In name only.

Socialist like New Labour is socialist. Which is, not at all.

If you look at the political map of Europe, it is more blue than at any time in recent history. The people of Europe are voting for the right so the lefty parties can't just be straight up about their socialist agenda. This is why they have to carry out their plans through a secretive commision that answers to no one i.e. the Europeans who think they are voting for the right.

Anyway, I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

mafia_man · 12-10-2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by datingleads

If you look at the political map of Europe, it is more blue than at any time in recent history. The people of Europe are voting for the right so the lefty parties can't just be straight up about their socialist agenda. This is why they have to carry out their plans through a secretive commision that answers to no one i.e. the Europeans who think they are voting for the right.

Anyway, I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.

New Labour, France's Socialist Party and the SDP are actually socialist. Do you really think so?

Do you think the American's would let a socialist run the IMF?

Socialism is workers owning the means of production. Nothing the EU has done is socialistic in this regard.

There's no agenda. Capitalism won (so to speak) and everybody turned into neo-liberals including our centre left parties in the EU.

The EU might have started out as some socialist dream but now it's just a big marketplace.

Paul Markham · 12-10-2011, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

Paul. The EU is not a socialist bloc. If you still think it is, go and read the definition of socialism.

The EU is a neo-liberal capitalist bloc. Promotes trade between countries and uses taxes as it's funding just like every other government program.

Taxes != socialism as many of our American cousins would let us believe.

Did I say the EU was run by Socialists?

Maybe the cock up the spendaholics made of their time in power has taught voters that nothing is free.

Quote:

New Labour, France's Socialist Party and the SDP are actually socialist. Do you really think so?

Do you think the American's would let a socialist run the IMF?

Socialism is workers owning the means of production. Nothing the EU has done is socialistic in this regard.

There's no agenda. Capitalism won (so to speak) and everybody turned into neo-liberals including our centre left parties in the EU.

The EU might have started out as some socialist dream but now it's just a big marketplace.

I love the ideal of doing away with the bosses, getting rid of the greedy bankers, the corrupt businessmen, the crooked politicians. So we can allow workers to own a share in the businesses they work for, letting them run the businesses and having the same workers run the country without becoming corrupt themselves.

Can you show us an example of a country where it has worked to the benefit the workers. So we can copy them and all go forward to a new and better future. This would be a truly wonderful thing and I long to see the example you would like us to copy.

mafia_man · 12-10-2011, 03:22 PM

Read "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell if you want to know a society were non-hierarchical socialism worked.

Paul Markham · 12-10-2011, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

Read "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell if you want to know a society were non-hierarchical socialism worked.

No can you give me an actual place where it has worked. A book is theory. Unless Wikipedia has it wrong.

Quote:

Catalonia is an autonomous community in northeastern Spain, with the official status of a "nationality" of Spain.[1] Catalonia comprises four provinces: Barcelona, Girona, Lleida, and Tarragona. Its capital and largest city is Barcelona. Catalonia covers an area of 32,114 km² and has an official population of 7,535,251.[2] Its borders essentially reflect those of the former Principality of Catalonia. It borders France and Andorra to the north, Aragon to the west, the Valencian Community to the south, and the Mediterranean Sea to the east (580 km coastline). The official languages are Catalan, Spanish and Aranese (Occitan).[3]

The name Catalunya (Catalonia) began to be used in the late 11th century[4] in reference to the group of counties that comprised the Marca Hispanica. The origin of the term is subject to diverse interpretations. A theory suggests that Catalunya derives from the term "Land of Castles",[5] having evolved from the term castlà, the ruler of a castle (see castellan).[6] This theory therefore suggests that the name Castile and Catalonia have the same etymology.

Another theory suggests that Catalunya (Latin Gathia Launia) derives from the name Gothia (or Gauthia), "Land of the Goths", since the Spanish March was first known as Gothia, whence Gothland > Gothlandia > Gothalania > Catalonia theoretically derived.[7][8]

Yet another less accepted theory points to the Lacetani, an Iberian tribe that lived in the area and whose name, due to the Roman influence, could have evolved by metathesis to Katelans and then Catalans.[9][10]

Seems it's a part of Spain. Need an actual country that has adopted the ethics you put forward, so we can copy it and make out lives better.

porno jew · 12-10-2011, 03:57 PM

thought paul was an expert at world history and economic systems as well. i guess i was wrong.

B.Barnato · 12-10-2011, 04:01 PM

Paul, content should be seen and not heard.

Paul Markham · 12-11-2011, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by porno jew

thought paul was an expert at world history and economic systems as well. i guess i was wrong.

As usual nothing to contribute and proves it all the time.

mafia_man I ask you for a country where it works and you give me a book to read.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homage_to_Catalonia

Quote:

Homage to Catalonia is political journalist and novelist George Orwell's personal account of his experiences and observations in the Spanish Civil War. The first edition was published in 1938. The book was not published in the United States until February 1952. The American edition had a preface written by Lionel Trilling. The only translation published in Orwell's lifetime was into Italian, in December 1948. A French translation made by Yvonne Davet ? with whom Orwell corresponded, commenting on her translation and providing explicatory notes ? in 1938-39, was not published until five years after Orwell's death.[1]

Christopher Hitchens: "The narrative core of Homage to Catalonia, it might be argued, is a series of events that occurred in and around the Barcelona telephone exchange in early May 1937. Orwell was a witness to these events, by the relative accident of his having signed up with the militia of the anti-Stalinist POUM upon arriving in Spain [-] he became convinced that he had been the spectator of a full-blown Stalinist putsch [-] Moreover, he came to understand that much of the talk about discipline and unity was a rhetorical shield for the covert Stalinization of the Spanish Republic."[2]

Which, it seems, has nothing to do with running an entire country.

So I will ask again, can you give me a country to back up what you're saying?

mafia_man · 12-11-2011, 07:36 AM

It's an account of anarchism in Spain circa 1930s.

Paul Markham · 12-11-2011, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafia_man

It's an account of anarchism in Spain circa 1930s.

So you avoided my question. Why is that?

We all know why, there are no examples. Every single time anyone has tried to create this wonderful dream it's gone pear shaped and always the workers ended up with less, or capitalism was bank rolling it.

The places with the highest paid workers in the world are those run on a capitalist system. Redistribute the wealth made by capitalism, but capitalism still has to create the wealth first. And you have to leave a lot for the creators, or they go to where they are appreciated better.

Put workers in charge and it ends up a disaster most times. What usually happens is a Lenin starts is off with a dream and Stalin takes it over. Or a Pol Pot starts it and we know where that went.

The list of failures of countries who attempted your dream isn't long. The rest of the world knew it was a screw up.

N. Korea.
Cambodia
USSR
Cuba
China, until it adopted the capitalism system.

Yes we should do more to protect the weak, vulnerable, dispossessed and eradicate poverty. But I would rather be poor in a capitalist country than any that tried your experiment.

Now tell me no one has ever tried.

So you want us to all abandon a system that does work, for some experiment that never will. And what then will happen to the weak, vulnerable, dispossessed and poor?

Cherry7 · 12-12-2011, 12:33 PM

Paul doesn't read books.

He didn't know that ""Homage to Catalonia" was a book, he does not know about the Spanish Civil war.

He does not read books. Even about subjects he supposed to be interested in like photography.

He just knows.

You could point out that Socialism even in the most backward countries like Russia without a history of democracy still made amazing advances under a distorted version of Stalinism. So much so that it out produced Germany and defeated German fascism saving Europe from an age of Barbarism. He would stick to what he has picked up from rags like"The Daily Mail".

He could find out lots of examples in his new country of good and bad socialism, but he does not speak Czech.

A strange person who says he knows it all, but refuses to read or learn.

Asking to show an example of a future structure of society while still in Capitalism, is a stupid as demanding from Oliver Cromwell that he show a working version of capitalism before destroying feudalism.

capitalism is failing 99% of the population in its rule of the markets. The 99% start to rule the market a new society will be build.

mafia_man · 12-12-2011, 12:57 PM

Mark. None of the countries you listed are socialist. They are all state capitalist countries where the dictators hold the means of production, not the workers.

Socialism isn't in competition with capitalism, it's an evolution of the system. Just like capitalism evolved out of feudalism.

12-09-2011, 02:09 AM	#1
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	This is how to solve problems in the Euro zone. Create a single currency, don't bother with a single economic set of rules, over spend, borrow too much and get into financial debt that will bring the currency down. Then tell a country outside the currency to have to pay for your screw up. Effectively this is what the French and Germans were planning to do with their tax on the financial institutions of the UK. The fault of the Euro zone lies with Brussels in not have strict rules, the countries who borrowed money way above their ability to repay, thinking others would rescue them, the politicians who continually bribed voters to keep them happy so they kept voting for them and then the banks. Not the other way around. If the banks had said no, the countries with massive public spending debts would be very poor and look very poor. No worries, it will all solve itself. Croatia just joined, is this another nose in the trough? __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

12-09-2011, 05:53 AM	#3
ottopottomouse She is ugly, bad luck. Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,177	Good job the government have just announced they are scrapping pension payments to expats to save some money then I suppose. __________________ ↑ see post ↑ 13101

12-09-2011, 09:23 AM	#5
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,145	Jesus.. first you solved all problems in the adult biz and then moved on to solving all European monetary problems? Christ, whats next? I expect within 2 weeks you'll be spilling the secrets of time travel. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

12-09-2011, 11:34 AM	#7
mafia_man Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq#: 639544261 Posts: 1,965	The whole point of the ECB verifying budgets is to stop this happening again. There should be a UK transaction tax but it should go to the treasury not to the EU. __________________ I'm out.

12-09-2011, 06:27 PM	#30
AllAboutCams Femcams.com Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: bjcam.com Posts: 12,221	I hate the idea of the uk been in europe i also hate the idea the uk having the same currency as everyone else in europe __________________ Binance - Blockchain and Crypto Asset Exchange Chaturbate make money in cams

12-09-2011, 05:29 AM	#2
nico-t emperor of my world Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: nethalands Posts: 29,903	You are a genius, Paul. You should be in politics. Paul Markham: Minister of economics, toilet placement and internet porn. What do you think of all the free porn on the internet nowadays? I am really curious what your ideas on this are.

12-09-2011, 10:48 AM	#6
Klen Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Little Vienna Posts: 32,235	We didn't "just joined",we still have referendum to pass,and after that we will join 1.7.2013,and there is a big chance how EU will collapse before we join.

12-09-2011, 12:25 PM	#15
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	mind = blown.

12-09-2011, 01:41 PM	#17
datingleads Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 87	Lefties want everyone else to pay for their fuck ups... surely not?

12-09-2011, 04:44 PM	#24
datingleads Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 87	You telling me Europe isn't run by lefties?

12-09-2011, 04:53 PM	#25
djroof JuicyDevils.gr Owner Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 25,383	this problem has not solution... the only solution for all is the WORLD CURRENCY...

12-10-2011, 01:50 AM	#34
TrashyContent Confirmed User Join Date: May 2008 Location: England Posts: 2,155	Hmm... I honestly believe if there is ever "First Contact" it will be Paul Markham who meet the first alians... which in short means "we're fucked!" __________________ Trashy Content - High Res Images - HD Video SlutBank.com Home of THOT PORN [email protected] - - Skype - bangbangsteve Great Content Deals Available @ TRASHY CONTENT

12-10-2011, 06:22 AM	#36
mafia_man Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq#: 639544261 Posts: 1,965	Paul. The EU is not a socialist bloc. If you still think it is, go and read the definition of socialism. The EU is a neo-liberal capitalist bloc. Promotes trade between countries and uses taxes as it's funding just like every other government program. Taxes != socialism as many of our American cousins would let us believe. __________________ I'm out.

12-10-2011, 03:22 PM	#42
mafia_man Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq#: 639544261 Posts: 1,965	Read "Homage to Catalonia" by George Orwell if you want to know a society were non-hierarchical socialism worked. __________________ I'm out.

12-10-2011, 03:57 PM	#44
porno jew Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 10,166	thought paul was an expert at world history and economic systems as well. i guess i was wrong.

12-10-2011, 04:01 PM	#45
B.Barnato So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 3,618	Paul, content should be seen and not heard.

12-11-2011, 07:36 AM	#47
mafia_man Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq#: 639544261 Posts: 1,965	It's an account of anarchism in Spain circa 1930s. __________________ I'm out.

12-12-2011, 12:33 PM	#49
Cherry7 Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Paul doesn't read books. He didn't know that ""Homage to Catalonia" was a book, he does not know about the Spanish Civil war. He does not read books. Even about subjects he supposed to be interested in like photography. He just knows. You could point out that Socialism even in the most backward countries like Russia without a history of democracy still made amazing advances under a distorted version of Stalinism. So much so that it out produced Germany and defeated German fascism saving Europe from an age of Barbarism. He would stick to what he has picked up from rags like"The Daily Mail". He could find out lots of examples in his new country of good and bad socialism, but he does not speak Czech. A strange person who says he knows it all, but refuses to read or learn. Asking to show an example of a future structure of society while still in Capitalism, is a stupid as demanding from Oliver Cromwell that he show a working version of capitalism before destroying feudalism. capitalism is failing 99% of the population in its rule of the markets. The 99% start to rule the market a new society will be build. __________________ My Neighbour Butterfly PORN-The Musical The Long Goodbye Cinema Erotique

12-12-2011, 12:57 PM	#50
mafia_man Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: icq#: 639544261 Posts: 1,965	Mark. None of the countries you listed are socialist. They are all state capitalist countries where the dictators hold the means of production, not the workers. Socialism isn't in competition with capitalism, it's an evolution of the system. Just like capitalism evolved out of feudalism. __________________ I'm out.