Alcoholics.. Do you have "drinking days"? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

JFK · 12-14-2011, 07:01 PM

Fitty

DTK · 12-15-2011, 01:05 PM

BACLOFEN

Heal Thyself by Dr Olivier Amiesen

Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread

Dr Fred Levin - Has treated hundreds of people w/a near-perfect success rate.

One Person's Experience - Starts at post #7. Plenty of other stories too.

It works. Trust me.

JayDeeZee · 12-15-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Learning a few months ago that secret about the ONE has kept me straight. . So many times I could just have one. Many times. Learning that the big deal is that I can never be sure which ONE will lead to ONE HUNDRED really helped me.

I'm not one who will end up doing it for a long time because of one bender, though. A bender usually wards me off of it for a long time after, now. Which I know is odd.

But "putting the plug, in the jug" is only half the battle for an alcoholic. They also have a mind that won't let them be happy. Alcoholics for some reason, have lost the power of choice. Their perception of their problems and struggles seem impossible to solve. They often tend to give up and drink again.

BUDOAR · 12-15-2011, 02:29 PM

I'm drinking now. Again...

Adult Insider Dave · 12-15-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Ever since I stopped being a daily drunk, I still know when it would have been a drinking day. Where my brain kind of shuts down and thinks alcohol alcohol alcohol. It's like my brain does not want to do anything else. It wants me to drink.

And it could be a great day, a horrible one, no rhyme or reason to it. But it happens maybe once a week, sometimes every other week, sometimes it is a month between them.

But today is one and ... not drinking feels like I am a fish out of water .. still getting use to this.

Knowing one day drunk can make me lose everything - just as it has in the past - knowing how disappointed everyone would be - that keeps me from doing it

But what do you do on a sober drinking day?

Well at the shows it's basically a drinking week for me. At home I try to limit myself to drinking 1 day a week. Sometimes it turns out to be 2 or 3 if there are sporting events etc. What keeps me from drinking though, to answer your question, is I think about how SHITTY I feel after a long ass binge. It would take me a f'n week to recover from the shows, and if I go 2 days in a row now I'm really hurtin for a day or two after. Just not worth it.

So if you felt like ass after your binge, just think about that some and hopefully it will help you out. Good luck

LatinaCrazy · 12-15-2011, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMaxwell

Ever since I stopped being a daily drunk, I still know when it would have been a drinking day. Where my brain kind of shuts down and thinks alcohol alcohol alcohol. It's like my brain does not want to do anything else. It wants me to drink.

And it could be a great day, a horrible one, no rhyme or reason to it. But it happens maybe once a week, sometimes every other week, sometimes it is a month between them.

But today is one and ... not drinking feels like I am a fish out of water .. still getting use to this.

Knowing one day drunk can make me lose everything - just as it has in the past - knowing how disappointed everyone would be - that keeps me from doing it

But what do you do on a sober drinking day?

This too shall pass.

Contact me if you like. Up to this minute I have 12 years, and if I let my brain do the thinking it will end in a second..

LatinaCrazy · 12-15-2011, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayDeeZee

But "putting the plug, in the jug" is only half the battle for an alcoholic. They also have a mind that won't let them be happy. Alcoholics for some reason, have lost the power of choice. Their perception of their problems and struggles seem impossible to solve. They often tend to give up and drink again.

JayDeeZee what you say could very well be correct for an active alcoholic, BUT for a recuperating alcoholic we have all of the choices in the world.

It is when we stop remembering that we are alcoholics that we loose our choices. Keep the plug in jug about sums it up for the first half of the saying, the second half is "And keep goint to your meetings"

DTK · 12-15-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayDeeZee

But "putting the plug, in the jug" is only half the battle for an alcoholic. They also have a mind that won't let them be happy. Alcoholics for some reason, have lost the power of choice. Their perception of their problems and struggles seem impossible to solve. They often tend to give up and drink again.

What's being discovered is that for most alcoholics, it's not an issue of psychology (ie their perceptions or this or that), it's an issue of brain chemistry. Specifically, an imbalance in the GABA system. That's why Baclofen - a GABA-b agonist - has been so successful.

herbalot · 12-15-2011, 06:04 PM

Whenever I'm bored out of my skull.

WarChild · 12-15-2011, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatinaCrazy

JayDeeZee what you say could very well be correct for an active alcoholic, BUT for a recuperating alcoholic we have all of the choices in the world.

It is when we stop remembering that we are alcoholics that we loose our choices. Keep the plug in jug about sums it up for the first half of the saying, the second half is "And keep goint to your meetings"

Did you know that the success rate for quiting drinking is pretty much identical for those that do it through 12 stepping or just go at it alone? Although I would say each person should do what works best for them. Just kind of an interesting fact.

raymor · 12-15-2011, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarChild

Did you know that the success rate for quiting drinking is pretty much identical for those that do it through 12 stepping or just go at it alone? Although I would say each person should do what works best for them. Just kind of an interesting fact.

Did you know that's completely false? There's a HUGE difference between DOING the steps versus having a judge force you to go to a meeting to hear something ABOUT the steps.

Of people who are court ordered to attend a meeting to FIND OUT ABOUT the step based programs, 90% don't want to be there and won't do any of the steps. Those who don't have any interest in even trying don't succeed (duh).

Of those who work the steps, virtually all stay sober.

WarChild · 12-15-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raymor

Did you know that's completely false? There's a HUGE difference between DOING the steps versus having a judge force you to go to a meeting to hear something ABOUT the steps.

Of people who are court ordered to attend a meeting to FIND OUT ABOUT the step based programs, 90% don't want to be there and won't do any of the steps. Those who don't have any interest in even trying don't succeed (duh).

Of those who work the steps, virtually all stay sober.

I'm not going to argue with you over it but the facts are the facts. Every study ever done has shown AA to be no more effective, and in some cases LESS effective than no treatment at all.

Quote:

A controlled study of the effectiveness of Alcoholics Anonymous was conducted in San Diego in the mid-nineteen-sixties. It is described in "A Controlled Experiment on the Use of Court Probation for Drunk Arrests", by Keith S. Ditman, M.D., George C. Crawford, LL.B., Edward W. Forgy, Ph.D., Herbert Moskowitz, Ph.D., and Craig MacAndrew, Ph.D., in the American Journal of Psychiatry.1

In the study, 301 public drunkenness offenders were sentenced by the court to one of three "treatment programs". The offenders were randomly divided into three groups:

a control group that got no treatment at all,
a second group that was sent to a professional alcoholism treatment clinic,
and a third group that was sent to Alcoholics Anonymous.
All of the subjects were followed for at least a full year following conviction. Surprisingly, the no-treatment group did the best, and Alcoholics Anonymous did the worst, far worse than simply receiving no treatment at all.

Quote:

There is a high rate of recovery among alcoholics and addicts, treated and untreated. According to one estimate, heroin addicts break the habit in an average of 11 years. Another estimate is that at least 50% of alcoholics eventually free themselves although only 10% are ever treated. One recent study found that 80% of all alcoholics who recover for a year or more do so on their own, some after being unsuccessfully treated. When a group of these self-treated alcoholics was interviewed, 57% said they simply decided that alcohol was bad for them. Twenty-nine percent said health problems, frightening experiences, accidents, or blackouts persuaded them to quit. Others used such phrases as "Things were building up" or "I was sick and tired of it." Support from a husband or wife was important in sustaining the resolution.
Treatment of Drug Abuse and Addiction — Part III, The Harvard Mental Health Letter, Volume 12, Number 4, October 1995, page 3.
(See Aug. (Part I), Sept. (Part II), Oct. 1995 (Part III).)

Quote:

The NIAAA's 2001-2002 National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions interviewed over 43,000 people. Using the criteria for alcohol dependence found in the DSM-IV, they found:

"About 75 percent of persons who recover from alcohol dependence do so without seeking any kind of help, including specialty alcohol (rehab) programs and AA. Only 13 percent of people with alcohol dependence ever receive specialty alcohol treatment."

Quote:

The two randomized studies in which AA treatment was assigned found AA to yield worse outcomes than other forms of treatment — or no treatment at all.

See Brandsma et al., The Outpatient Treatment of Alcoholism: A Review and Comparative Study, Baltimore: University Park Press, 1980;
Ditman et al., "A controlled study on the use of court probation for drunk arrests," American Journal of Psychiatry, 124:160-163, 1967.)

But Walsh et al. ("A randomized trial of treatment options for alcohol-abusing workers", The New England Journal of Medicine, 325:775-782, 1991) allowed alcoholics limited choices, and those who chose AA still did worst (about as bad as those assigned to AA).

DTK · 12-15-2011, 09:42 PM

No need to debate the various methods/programs. Post #52 FTW

raymor · 12-15-2011, 10:47 PM

Quote:

"A Controlled Experiment on the Use of Court Probation for Drunk Arrests"

...

In the study, 301 public drunkenness offenders were sentenced by the court to one of three "treatment programs".

So your study that you cited said exactly the same thing I said - that having a judge order someone to go hear about a recovery program is rarely effective.

Maybe an example will help:

Study really hard, get into Harvard, then work your ass off.

Are you rich yet? No? Working hard and going to Harvard must not work. Oh, having me tell you about something isn't the same as if you actually do it?

Again, most people, probably 90%, who are introduced to a recovery system by a judge's order, against their will, will not put that system into practice and will therefore not benefit from what they do not do.

To judge the effectiveness of anything based on the fact that people who don't want to do it and therefore don't do it don't get results is nuts. If you want to know whether something is effective, you look at the people who did it, not the unwilling people who were ordered to hear about it.

Spunky · 12-15-2011, 10:52 PM

I drink right now

DTK · 12-15-2011, 11:07 PM

ok, let's keep debating philosophy when there's a near-perfect solution

raymor · 12-15-2011, 11:12 PM

WarChild, a more accurate example to compare to your study of criminals ordered to visit AA might be the following. Consider iif offenders were ordered to visit a nursing school. How many would become nurses? Maybe 1%? Therefore nursing school doesn't work? Perhaps ordering someone to visit a place is unlikely to result in them making dramatic life changes.

adultchatpay · 12-15-2011, 11:40 PM

You can't remove that habit in one click. Slowly reduce your alcohol intake, you'll realize you don't want anymore alcoholic drinks.

12-14-2011, 07:01 PM	#51
JFK FUBAR the ORIGINATOR Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FUBARLAND Posts: 67,374	Fitty __________________ FUBAR Webmasters - The FUBAR Times - FUBAR Webmasters Mobile - FUBARTV.XXX For promo opps contact jfk at fubarwebmasters dot com

12-15-2011, 09:42 PM	#63
DTK Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The 510 Posts: 4,545	No need to debate the various methods/programs. Post #52 FTW __________________ Arguing whether the Democratic or Republican party is better is like debating which steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky. Last edited by DTK; 12-15-2011 at 09:46 PM..

12-15-2011, 10:52 PM	#65
Spunky I need a beer Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ♠ Toiletville ♠ Posts: 133,928	I drink right now __________________ *YOUR INFORMATION HERE*

12-15-2011, 11:07 PM	#66
DTK Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The 510 Posts: 4,545	ok, let's keep debating philosophy when there's a near-perfect solution __________________ Arguing whether the Democratic or Republican party is better is like debating which steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky.

12-15-2011, 11:12 PM	#67
raymor Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,745	WarChild, a more accurate example to compare to your study of criminals ordered to visit AA might be the following. Consider iif offenders were ordered to visit a nursing school. How many would become nurses? Maybe 1%? Therefore nursing school doesn't work? Perhaps ordering someone to visit a place is unlikely to result in them making dramatic life changes. __________________ For historical display only. This information is not current: support@bettercgi.com ICQ 7208627 Strongbox - The next generation in site security Throttlebox - The next generation in bandwidth control Clonebox - Backup and disaster recovery on steroids

12-15-2011, 01:05 PM	#52
DTK Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: The 510 Posts: 4,545	BACLOFEN Heal Thyself by Dr Olivier Amiesen Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread Dr Fred Levin - Has treated hundreds of people w/a near-perfect success rate. One Person's Experience - Starts at post #7. Plenty of other stories too. It works. Trust me. __________________ Arguing whether the Democratic or Republican party is better is like debating which steaming pile of shit is slightly less stinky.

12-15-2011, 02:29 PM	#54
BUDOAR Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 185	I'm drinking now. Again...

12-15-2011, 06:04 PM	#59
herbalot Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 73	Whenever I'm bored out of my skull.

12-15-2011, 11:40 PM	#68
adultchatpay Let's Make Money Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 8,784	You can't remove that habit in one click. Slowly reduce your alcohol intake, you'll realize you don't want anymore alcoholic drinks.