You can drill as much as you want - gas will not become cheaper. - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Robbie · 09-09-2012, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Robbie has been waiting 5 years to downsize his car.
Anyone else confused?

Just you Paul.

I wasn't looking to "downsize" anything. I LIKE the Tesla sportscars. They are awesome and electric and fast and cool looking.

I already have a Prowler sportscar which is so unique that I have no plans on ever selling it.

I'm not "waiting" on anything. If you had the good common sense to do some research before typing stupidity, you would see that the Tesla sports car is $109,000.00

In this economy....and since I already own my "dream car", there is simply no way I can afford to spend money frivolously.

Man...I tried to keep respect for you because you have worked a long time in this business. But some or your posts show a serious lack of thought. Lots of verbiage in many posts..but very little thought. You seem to miss the point of every post made.

SZNY · 09-09-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

1. OPEC (crazy muslim fucks who hate our guts) would lose their income and be forced back into the game.

The hate is created by the US gov itself. There was no need to invade Iraq, Afghanistan and mingle with Libya.

Those actions were all about money vs power and in this case about oil and other resources.

For sure there are alternative power sources available but probably controlled by govs and oil companies.

Imagine if there is an alternative energy source, what will happen with the control certain govs, organisations and companies have?

epitome · 09-09-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You are just refusing to ponder the question I proposed. IF the U.S. has a giant untapped oil reserve that is bigger than the amount of oil that OPEC can stop producing...then two things would happen:
1. OPEC (crazy muslim fucks who hate our guts) would lose their income and be forced back into the game.

2. The world oil supply would increase.

You're still working off of outdated assumptions that have OPEC as the big player.
IF what the oil companies are reporting is true...OPEC would be marginalized.

Yes, if it was 10 years ago...we would be at the mercy of OPEC. But these new discoveries are suggesting that might not be the case.

I'm just looking at it with an open mind. There's only ONE WAY TO FIND OUT. And that is to start getting that oil out.

Everything else is just people like me wondering if we could...and people like you in denial that it's even possible.

OPEC is made up by a lot more than "crazy Muslims who hate our guts." It also includes our allies.

I suppose the government could open refineries as its not a good business to be in but we want less government right? I mean what if the government suddenly decided we have to buy gas like they do with health insurance?

Government = bad ... you have spent many posts stating as much which means you want to rely on the market which includes the OPEC.

ErectMedia · 09-09-2012, 03:20 PM

paying high $4 now in chicago, prices blow but car is rated 27 city/32 highway, on cruise can push 40+, if paying more meant less traffic I'd take it as it usually takes 50 minutes for a 10 mile commute downtown.

Robbie · 09-09-2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

I suppose the government could open refineries as its not a good business to be in but we want less government right? I mean what if the government suddenly decided we have to buy gas like they do with health insurance?

Government = bad ... you have spent many posts stating as much which means you want to rely on the market which includes the OPEC.

I never said the government should open a refinery. I said the government should get out of the way and let oil companies build refineries.

As for OPEC..there are a few "allies" (if that's what you would call them) like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq (because we invaded them), the United Arab Emirates...etc.
But they are all run by dictators and Kings. The people of those countries don't like us one bit and you know it. I have two family members who served in Iraq and were based out of Kuwait.
Trust me...they don't like us (and yeah, it's our own fault...but it is what it is).

It doesn't matter. You have made up your mind. There is no hope for oil prices. Recent advances in technology that have discovered huge new oil finds in the U.S. are irrelevant to you. And we are still in the past and have to depend on Opec forever.

I, on the other hand...would like to see what happens if we actually DID go and get these huge new oil finds right here in the U.S.
And if we did go after the giant natural gas deposits that have recently been found as well. (maybe convert our cars to natural gas for instance)

I am of the impression that those two things would be a huge one-two punch that would take OPEC out of the equation and force them to lower prices to be competitive.

It's just my thought after looking at things.

But to just ignore all these new finds is a bad idea.

I believe that these new discoveries are the key to an economic resurgence in this country.

It's just my thoughts on the matter. Nothing more, nothing less.

Bill8 · 09-09-2012, 03:46 PM

What's your evidence that we are ignoring these finds - lets look at it.

I presume you mean the kerogen - the fossil carbon trapped in shales that we can process into liguid distillates that can then be refined into fuels.

They are bringing the kerogen to market already, at a pretty decent clip, which is good news for us, because it helps keep the price spikes from supply depletion from the north sea and other opec and non-opec producers from sending the price of barrels back up to the 120-140 range.

I think you THINK you understand what's going on, and you are repeating the industry mantras - and there IS a sudden explosion in nonconventional liquids into the marketplace.

But, your claim that the government is suppressing things is mistaken, just like that wall street article you posted, the reality is the federal government is actively trying to get those extractions and liquids happening faster, or as fast as possible, given the objections of the states.

I agree tho we should be converting the transport fleet to natural gas as fast as we can - but we americans have lost the abiolity to innovate in infrastructure, and the free market is broken. So, we will wait until the last possible moment, the start the infrastructure change after we should have, so it will cost us all a lot more.

There are a lot of errors in your other writing, characteristic errors like thinking that oil produced in teh US can be used by the US, when in reality it will be sold into the planetary market - and the constant confusion about what the government allows and doesnt allow, and why - but lets look at this claim that we are "ignoring finds".

Robbie · 09-09-2012, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

There are a lot of errors in your other writing, characteristic errors like thinking that oil produced in teh US can be used by the US, when in reality it will be sold into the planetary market - and the constant confusion about what the government allows and doesnt allow, and why - but lets look at this claim that we are "ignoring finds".

Good thing you're here to set me straight.

I already said over and over and over...that if we can start producing a substantial amount of oil into the world market and convert our vehicles to natural gas then OPEC will be marginalized.

I also very plainly said that there is only one way to find out.

Dude....give it a rest. You don't know any more than I do. We are outsiders trying to use the info we can find to make assessments of what we think should happen.

I'm saying: "Let's do something and see if it works."

You seem to be implying that there is nothing that can be done but to wait until solar and wind power can take the place of fossil fuels.

I'm saying straight out....Technology has moved forward and the oil companies are now able to "see" giant oil reserves that they didn't know about before.
Under current conditions, if they started getting that oil it would add more oil to the world supply. IF it were enough to offset any cut in production by OPEC then OPEC is marginalized and would be forced to either lower prices and produce more...or be financially ruined.

That's my scenario IF the reports that have been released are correct and IF the U.S. govt. will open up the lands for drilling.

That will create high paying jobs and also will create tons of service industry and goods to supply the new workers.

If you have a better idea...let's hear it!

This is my idea to bring our economy back to life. What's yours?

baddog · 09-09-2012, 04:04 PM

How about, the price will not increase as quickly?

Robbie · 09-09-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

How about, the price will not increase as quickly?

And maybe there will be some more high paying jobs for folks too.

Bill8 · 09-09-2012, 04:11 PM

I dont recall ever mentioning solar and wind in these oil discussions, ever. Solar and wind play a role in the topic of switching to an electrocity economy, but we are still talking about a chemical liquids economy here, and solar and wind are not on the table.

Yes I do happen to know a lot about it, it's a very interesting topic.

Lets get back to the question - you say we are ignoring huge finds - what's your support for this claim? What is happening that you think is "ignoring", who is ignoring them?

You are talking about the kerogen, right? How are we "ignoring" the kerogen?

Or are you talking about something else?

And no, I wont give it a break, as long as you keep spreading misinformation. Simple solution - you study up so when you say things it's supported.

epitome · 09-09-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I never said the government should open a refinery. I said the government should get out of the way and let oil companies build refineries.

As for OPEC..there are a few "allies" (if that's what you would call them) like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Iraq (because we invaded them), the United Arab Emirates...etc.
But they are all run by dictators and Kings. The people of those countries don't like us one bit and you know it. I have two family members who served in Iraq and were based out of Kuwait.
Trust me...they don't like us (and yeah, it's our own fault...but it is what it is).

It doesn't matter. You have made up your mind. There is no hope for oil prices. Recent advances in technology that have discovered huge new oil finds in the U.S. are irrelevant to you. And we are still in the past and have to depend on Opec forever.

I, on the other hand...would like to see what happens if we actually DID go and get these huge new oil finds right here in the U.S.
And if we did go after the giant natural gas deposits that have recently been found as well. (maybe convert our cars to natural gas for instance)

I am of the impression that those two things would be a huge one-two punch that would take OPEC out of the equation and force them to lower prices to be competitive.

It's just my thought after looking at things.

But to just ignore all these new finds is a bad idea.

I believe that these new discoveries are the key to an economic resurgence in this country.

It's just my thoughts on the matter. Nothing more, nothing less.

Look, I actually agree. The problem is refining is not as profitable as oil. Nobody wants to be in refining and the oil companies are only in it because it is necessary to deliver the end product. When they raise how much oil they are pumping they magically run into refining problems which puts supply back down. So the OPEC says they will pump more oil and prices come down enough to shut everyone up but they are still artificially high because they have magical refining problems. You can have all the oil in the world but unless you address the problem of there only being something like 7 refineries in the country and one or two are always down for maintenance or other problems you need to build more. Nobody will invest in that though. Not even the companies that already own them.

Robbie · 09-09-2012, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

Nobody will invest in that though. Not even the companies that already own them.

Companies want to invest in them. Hyperion invested 10 billion dollars to build one in South Dakota which is expected to bring tons of jobs and over 13 billion a year into the local economy

The problem isn't companies...it's the govt.

Environmental protestors say that oil refineries "don't make good neighbors" (I swear I just read that lol). And to get local govt.'s to approve them has been impossible.

The oil refinery in South Dakota will be the FIRST new refinery built in the U.S. since 1976!!!

It's the same thing with trying to build nuclear plants to generate electricity.

The U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission just approved the first license for a nuclear reactor in the U.S. since 1978!!!

And we wonder why we are behind the rest of the world in nuclear power?

Come to think of it...what exactly does the Nuclear Regulatory Commission do to earn their salaries if they haven't licensed a single nuclear reactor since the 1970's?

Bill8 · 09-09-2012, 05:34 PM

Robbie, here's an article you need to read and understand.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...y-markets.html

I'm curious - do you know how to interpret oilpatch code? What do you think this says?

Then ask yourself this question - if what this article says is true, (and it is) why is the price of gasoline at an all time seasonal high right now?

Bill8 · 09-09-2012, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The problem isn't companies...it's the govt.

Environmental protestors say that oil refineries "don't make good neighbors" (I swear I just read that lol). And to get local govt.'s to approve them has been impossible.

The oil refinery in South Dakota will be the FIRST new refinery built in the U.S. since 1976!!!

So you don't believe in property rights? You want the government to force people to accept having their property rights reduced?

What is keeping the oil companies from finding someplace to put their refineries where people want them? Why dont free market principles apply when it comes to building refineries?

Actually, what you aren't saying is that the oil companies want special liability protections and corporste welfare - and they are perfectly happy with a refinery shortage, because it allows them to charge more for the finished product with a fixed input cost and a fixed and reduced overhead cost.

In fact, you are completely misrepresenting the problem - just like the oil companies wan you to do. The refinery shortage benefits them - at the free markets expense.

The new kerogen refinery in SD is a perfect example that the petro industry can EASILY build new refineries when it's profitable for them to do so. Kerogen pyrolosis is best done close to the source, because shipping raw kerogen is expensive.

epitome · 09-09-2012, 06:20 PM

I was way off on the number of refineries in the US but they are always plagued with "problems."

Bill8 · 09-09-2012, 07:18 PM

Speaking of the electricity economy - Germany is having some interesting problems.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-850419.html

The inherent limits of wind and solar require a different approach to an electrical grid - and some unique problems for industry and teh economy in general.

I see this as a good argument for electric cars actually - the connection is I assume obvious. No? It's the batteries.

Then we can take the fossil carbons, natural gas in particular, and use it to run smaller less expensive cogeneration planst for industry - indyustry gets reliable current and the surplus heat, a big win win.

Our problem is, as a nation we have lost the ability to innovate infrastructure. the free market is reactive, not proactive, so it can't innovate, it only reacts to current demands. It assumes a stable state, and we have left stable state behind.

We need leadership and vision, but we have built a system that punishes leadership and defunds vision.

It's a paradox, much like the oil paradox, or the meritocracy paradox.

candyflip · 09-09-2012, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

I'm gonna buy a Prius.

.

I just bought on 10 days ago. Still has half of the original tank of gas left in it.

My girl drives 100 miles in one direction for work 3 days a week. We are going to save HUGE on gas. This Prius gets almost 3 times as many MPG as our minivan.

crash_jackson · 09-09-2012, 08:03 PM

This is why I live 5 minutes from work. Takes me weeks even with not so great mileage on my car to go through a tank. Gas companies will never want to give up their record profits and neither will their shareholders

Barry-xlovecam · 09-09-2012, 08:20 PM

I have been redoing my home the past few years -- rebuilding a good part of it and buying energy rated appliances with tax credits.

I will probably get a $100 tax credit on the silly new dishwasher I bought -- bought with the tax credit considered -- last year the new roof and furnace $525 energy tax credit.

$7,500 to $15,000 Electric Car Tax Credit

Quote:

The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (EESA) and the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) created two new tax credits for various types of electric vehicles, which may include what are commonly referred to as neighborhood electric vehicles.

EESA created a tax credit for vehicles that have at least four wheels and draw propulsion using a rechargeable traction battery with at least four kilowatt hours of capacity. For 2009, the minimum credit is $2,500 and the credit tops out at $7,500 to $15,000, depending on the weight of the vehicle and the capacity of the battery.

http://www.irs.gov/uac/Tax-Breaks-Av...ctric-Vehicles

Invest in the future when possible or if practicable is my point ... This will create jobs, less energy use and less hydrocarbon pollution in urban areas too. And in the end game; get back some of the tax dollars you resent paying :P

bhutocracy · 09-09-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

Our problem is, as a nation we have lost the ability to innovate infrastructure. the free market is reactive, not proactive, so it can't innovate, it only reacts to current demands. It assumes a stable state, and we have left stable state behind.

This is what got me into oil investing mid-way through last decade. I highly recommend it. Investment is buying off, and selling to the kinds of people who comprehend company announcements as well as they comprehend articles they link to. I just made 1600% pre-drill on one LT trade no gearing - beating the market is roughly the same as beating someone in an argument, except that the market actually acknowledges it was wrong and gives you it's money for being right..
Hit me up.

_Richard_ · 09-09-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

I have been redoing my home the past few years -- rebuilding a good part of it and buying energy rated appliances with tax credits.

I will probably get a $100 tax credit on the silly new dishwasher I bought -- bought with the tax credit considered -- last year the new roof and furnace $525 energy tax credit.

$7,500 to $15,000 Electric Car Tax Credit

Invest in the future when possible or if practicable is my point ... This will create jobs, less energy use and less hydrocarbon pollution in urban areas too. And in the end game; get back some of the tax dollars you resent paying :P

see that pic floating around fb regarding Morocco and it's renewable energy? if not, they're looking at 40% renewable by 2020

Barry-xlovecam · 09-09-2012, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

see that pic floating around fb regarding Morocco and it's renewable energy? if not, they're looking at 40% renewable by 2020

But you can't compare the energy needs of the USA (or Canada) to Morocco. But good for them; the effort is probably highly cost effective in Morocco ... Morocco seems good for solar and wind energy generation. The solar heating days in the Canada are even worse than in the USA (further north).

In Israel water heaters have been solar heated (electric supplemented) by law for over 20 years ... Solar works well in the within 40° latitude of the equator further than that it is marginal at best.

Barry-xlovecam · 09-09-2012, 09:22 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governm...ctric_vehicles World wide more up to date

georgeyw · 09-09-2012, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDalton

funny how the rest of the world can do it

I would LOVE to see how the rest of the world tows an 8 metre enclosed trailer with car inside using a jetta

Robbie · 09-09-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

And no, I wont give it a break, as long as you keep spreading misinformation. Simple solution - you study up so when you say things it's supported.

What the hell are you talking about? I've told you that it's being reported on the news. I didn't "spread misinformation"

This news about major new oil finds has been all over the place.

Instead of pretending that you are some kind of professor...how about just paying attention to what's going on in the world.

Robbie · 09-09-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyflip

I just bought on 10 days ago. Still has half of the original tank of gas left in it.

My girl drives 100 miles in one direction for work 3 days a week. We are going to save HUGE on gas. This Prius gets almost 3 times as many MPG as our minivan.

That is sweet!

epitome · 09-09-2012, 10:36 PM

Oil and gas are easy markets to manipulate. That is why leaders of countries with a lot of oil can spend hundreds of billions supporting their family. Its why all of the companies sit at the top of the Forbes list.

GAMEFINEST · 09-09-2012, 10:39 PM

its simple, why would prices go down

Paul Markham · 09-09-2012, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Just you Paul.

I wasn't looking to "downsize" anything. I LIKE the Tesla sportscars. They are awesome and electric and fast and cool looking.

I already have a Prowler sportscar which is so unique that I have no plans on ever selling it.

I'm not "waiting" on anything. If you had the good common sense to do some research before typing stupidity, you would see that the Tesla sports car is $109,000.00

In this economy....and since I already own my "dream car", there is simply no way I can afford to spend money frivolously.

Man...I tried to keep respect for you because you have worked a long time in this business. But some or your posts show a serious lack of thought. Lots of verbiage in many posts..but very little thought. You seem to miss the point of every post made.

So you're complaining about the price of gas and drive a car that gets 23 mpg. There are cars that will get twice that. But you have your dream car and won't change it, but complain it costs you too much. Dreams often do.

And I show a serious lack of thought?

Any chance you didn't think my post through?

I get your point completely. You spent too much in the good years, bought your dream car and probably a few other things and now your income no longer supports your dreams.

Robbie · 09-10-2012, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill8

And no, I wont give it a break, as long as you keep spreading misinformation. Simple solution - you study up so when you say things it's supported.

Here's a little more "Misinformation" for you Professor Bill8:

On Sunday, Shell drilled the pilot hole in the Chukchi Sea:

"More than four years after Royal Dutch Shell paid $2.8 billion to the federal government for petroleum leases in the Chukchi Sea, a company vessel on Sunday morning sent a drill bit into the ocean floor, beginning preliminary work on an exploratory well 70 miles off the northwest coast of Alaska.

Federal officials estimate Arctic waters in the Chukchi and Beaufort seas hold 26 billion barrels of recoverable oil and 130 trillion cubic feet of natural gas"

This is just one of the huge oil finds in the U.S. that have been being reported on the news.

The only "misinformation" is people like you not paying attention and calling me a liar when I am simply pondering what effect a glut of oil on the world market will have for oil price, the price of food (transportation of it), and the economy.

bhutocracy · 09-10-2012, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Here's a little more "Misinformation" for you Professor Bill8:

On Sunday, Shell drilled the pilot hole in the Chukchi Sea:

"More than four years after Royal Dutch Shell paid $2.8 billion to the federal government for petroleum leases in the Chukchi Sea, a company vessel on Sunday morning sent a drill bit into the ocean floor, beginning preliminary work on an exploratory well 70 miles off the northwest coast of Alaska.

Federal officials estimate Arctic waters in the Chukchi and Beaufort seas hold 26 billion barrels of recoverable oil and 130 trillion cubic feet of natural gas"

This is just one of the huge oil finds in the U.S. that have been being reported on the news.

The only "misinformation" is people like you not paying attention and calling me a liar when I am simply pondering what effect a glut of oil on the world market will have for oil price, the price of food (transportation of it), and the economy.

Ah I finally get it, you're trolling, no-one could be ignorant enough to call something a find before they even start looking for it. Ha, good one. And I thought them bad 'gubmint was blocking all these huge drills.... *sigh*

SpeedoDave · 09-10-2012, 06:54 AM

Have you seen natural gas prices?

They are really low but are you saying it has nothing to do with the major increase in US domestic production over the last 5 years?

Darn hippies - I'd prefer to buy oil from America than those darn rag heads.

Dave

Robbie · 09-10-2012, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

Ah I finally get it, you're trolling, no-one could be ignorant enough to call something a find before they even start looking for it. Ha, good one. And I thought them bad 'gubmint was blocking all these huge drills.... *sigh*

What the fuck are you talking about?

The discussion is about drilling for oil and whether it can effect price. My observation is that several huge oil finds have been made and it can.

This isn't 1910. They don't have to "drill first" to make finds. Technology is far more advanced than that.
Is it really so hard for you to use google or watch the news before making a comment in a discussion?

As for your dumbass comment about "bad gubmint"...yes, the government did it's due diligence...but that took SIX years (if you just use google or watch CNN today you would be informed).

Some of you guys are so much in denial that it's scary.
I said that there are new huge oil finds ready to be recovered. Some folks on here deny that. I give examples. They still deny it.
Then I wake up this morning and it's all over the news that they drilled the pilot hole yesterday on one of the biggest oil finds.
And some people STILL are in denial of it.

It's hard to discuss the OP's topic when folks like you are trolling it with ignorance of what's going on TODAY.

arock10 · 09-10-2012, 07:14 AM

The oil companies spends loads of cash to lobby the government to get more or less whatever they want. They still make record profits eternally either way. Why would they want to drive the price of oil down? Also, some drilling methods as discussed earlier aren't viable if oil prices are below a certain level...

which brings me to the natural gas part of things. Due to technological advances creating a huge oversupply, all the natural gas companies are losing money off it. Just ask halliburton... You think the oil companies would want this to happen to them? Hell no

If you drive a fuel inefficient car, well just consider the extra price you pay for fuel part of its cost and don't complain. I find it hilarious when people buy a $50k+ car and then just HAVE to go to the gas station that's across the street because its 2 cents cheaper a gallon.

Also that hairy pussy banner is fucking nasty and I really do not understand the point of showing it to webmasters. Plus I dunno about you but I have a tendency to browse GFY when I am eating and it really kills my desire to eat food. Just like I try to avoid updating cumshot sites when I am eating a bowl of cream of wheat

sperbonzo · 09-10-2012, 07:24 AM

Prices are determined by the commodities markets far more than they are by the Oil companies. So if new supplies come on to the markets, the price will go down.

And the only people screwing us on the prices are the government that ladle on massive taxes to the gas you buy. Average profit for the companies that actually find, pull out, transport and refine the gas? 10 cents per gallon. Average profit for governments that do nothing to create or distribute this product? 80+ cents (in the US) (MUCH higher than that in some other countries).

.

MaDalton · 09-10-2012, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by georgeyw

I would LOVE to see how the rest of the world tows an 8 metre enclosed trailer with car inside using a jetta

thats not what i meant. i just always read that stupid argument over and over again but seriously: how many people tow 8 meter boats on a daily basis?

IF you really have a boat you could even rent a truck twice a year.

but let's be honest: What's the percentage of truck owners that really use it to tow something regularly? 2%?

Brad Mitchell · 09-10-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmycooper

How will supply and demand bring the prices down when the global population is expected increase by 1.4 billion over the next 20 years? And with much of that growth occurring in industrializing nations nonetheless. THIS I have to hear.

I'm really looking forward to your response because you're supposed to be a smart guy and everything. I just don't see how it's possible for supply and demand to bring long term prices down. Where is all this extra supply coming from? Another planet? With cities similar to Aurangabad anticipated to be popping up left and right, that's the only possible answer.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-0...er-cities.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

So the oil industry would be shooting itself in the foot to up supply and get less money per barrel.

Anyone ever heard of OPEC? I'm sure somewhere it's linked to the price per barrel. Maybe it's just my addled brain.

Jimmy and Paul,

I'm not an expert on global economics or energy and it seems the spirit of my post was maybe missed. All I'm saying is that if what I have read is true, that we might have access to as much as 26% of the world's oil. If we tapped that, it should make a difference. I'm also saying that I believe everything is corrupt and that even if supply and demand economics were technically in our favor, I don't believe that our government or corporate regimes wouldn't still fleece away our money anyways. It's certainly a good point about continued increase demand from developing nations and yes, of course that would have an effect on commodity pricing. I hadn't given that much thought until you pointed it out. With all of that said, today we use 20% of the world's production.

Here is a link to others having the same debate and noting that it seems all of these facts about who has what oil are very much contested.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...the-us/256186/

In summary.. my point is that even if we did drill more to supply ourselves, I don't think for one second savings would find its way to consumers because I don't believe for one second that corporate and government goals aren't to take every last penny out of our pockets. This I think we can all agree on.

Now.. back to work for me. Have an excellent day

Sincerely,

Brad

Paul Markham · 09-10-2012, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

The oil companies spends loads of cash to lobby the government to get more or less whatever they want. They still make record profits eternally either way. Why would they want to drive the price of oil down? Also, some drilling methods as discussed earlier aren't viable if oil prices are below a certain level...

which brings me to the natural gas part of things. Due to technological advances creating a huge oversupply, all the natural gas companies are losing money off it. Just ask halliburton... You think the oil companies would want this to happen to them? Hell no

Stop being logical. Some think that with all the control the oil companies have, they will use it to drill for more oil, more work, more expenses. To drive prices down.

Nean while here in the real world, we know it will never happen.

Quote:

If you drive a fuel inefficient car, well just consider the extra price you pay for fuel part of its cost and don't complain. I find it hilarious when people buy a $50k+ car and then just HAVE to go to the gas station that's across the street because its 2 cents cheaper a gallon.

I keep going down that road. Problem is when your dreams are bigger than your income.

Quote:

Prices are determined by the commodities markets far more than they are by the Oil companies. So if new supplies come on to the markets, the price will go down.

And the only people screwing us on the prices are the government that ladle on massive taxes to the gas you buy. Average profit for the companies that actually find, pull out, transport and refine the gas? 10 cents per gallon. Average profit for governments that do nothing to create or distribute this product? 80+ cents (in the US) (MUCH higher than that in some other countries).

Add OPEC to the list.

Oil is a product that will run out. Everyone knows and agrees with this. Drilling, using faster and making it cheaper is about an illogical idea anyone can dream up.

Getting people out of 23 MPG cars and into 45 MPG cars is common sense.

bhutocracy · 09-10-2012, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

What the fuck are you talking about?

The discussion is about drilling for oil and whether it can effect price. My observation is that several huge oil finds have been made and it can.

This isn't 1910. They don't have to "drill first" to make finds. Technology is far more advanced than that.
Is it really so hard for you to use google or watch the news before making a comment in a discussion?

As for your dumbass comment about "bad gubmint"...yes, the government did it's due diligence...but that took SIX years (if you just use google or watch CNN today you would be informed).

Some of you guys are so much in denial that it's scary.
I said that there are new huge oil finds ready to be recovered. Some folks on here deny that. I give examples. They still deny it.
Then I wake up this morning and it's all over the news that they drilled the pilot hole yesterday on one of the biggest oil finds.
And some people STILL are in denial of it.

It's hard to discuss the OP's topic when folks like you are trolling it with ignorance of what's going on TODAY.

Ok so you're just fucking totally clueless. I research petroleum geology for fun (and profit). This is my wheelhouse. I've had people who have worked for oil companies ask me for MY advice.. Shut the fuck up and listen to someone who actually knows what they're talking about:

1. That's not an oil find. They haven't found anything. They haven't proven there is anything there. The only thing that proves oil is there is a drillbit.

2. The USGS/EIA/MMS provides estimates for what might be there by looking at the geology. It's a government function to do base working up of an area to get private companies interested in drilling to find out what's actually there. That doesn't mean it's there. No one knows if it is. It's just a big guess with certain probabilities of it being right in certain ranges. I just looked up the report, that's a mean figure, meaning there is a 50% chance it could be that figure. It could be only 2 billion (95% chance of at least this much). Seriously we're talkling +/- 30billion barrels ona roll of the dice. Thats how oil exploration works. There might be a lot, there might be a little bit, there might be none. The last 5 drills in the area were dusters and the whole industry gave up on it as too hard in the 90's.
I've currently got money on a drill that will START to prove up a 229tcf EIA estimate It could be completely worthless or it could be worth an unimaginable amount. No one knows. If they had super magical xray vision like you think they do I wouldn't have been able to buy in at a $100m mkt cap. (Because if they knew oil was there it would be reflected in the price, which is isn't currently, as everyone who actually knows what the fuck they're talking about knows these estimates don't actually mean anything until they're drilled)

3. That's a regional estimate, it's not a big field this drill will find. There might be 100 prospects each a couple of hundred million barrels, each one capable of being empty.

4. There is NO, I fucking repeat NO technology that lets you know whether oil is there or not before you drill. There are roughly half a dozen different technologies used to try and find out which drills are the most likely to succeed but even on the most modern 3d seismic, several DHIs and oil seep surveys it's still a 10-25% success chance on a wildcat drill. Companies spend 100 million bucks on a drill knowing the most likely outcome is failure. Look at Chariot TODAY with Nimrod. Another multi billion barrel "find" down the drain even with the magic xray glasses you think they have.
LOL @ the idea "They don't have to "drill first" to make finds." hah there is almost no way to describe exactly how retarded that is. I've watched you say some ignorant stuff before and haven't really said anything as you're not some kid being a dick, you've got a site and it works and I give most real webmasters some level of respect, but this is too much. You don't know how foolish the stuff you're saying is and I don't give a shit that it's not nice to point it out. If you're going to get up on the dinner table and squeeze out a fat turd while everyone's eating I'm not going to try and stare at my food and ignore it while you smile blankly, proud of your effort.

5. Shell says that best case scenario moving forward they'll be producing 1.8 million bbls a day from the area in 2030. Good luck with that much making a difference in 17-18 years of compound growth.

6. The article you posted previously clearly stated a glut of oil in America won't take the price at the pump down past $3 as there are production cost floors. The might be a glut of oil, but it's a glut of EXPENSIVE OIL. If you can't even comprehend the articles you post how can you expect people to even take you seriously? Shouldn't that be a clue to step back and do some book learnin' before piping up?

Anyways, just a note to stop spouting off on stuff you have demonstrated you have no clue about and people like me won't have to get annoyed at how misinformed you are. I don't know why it's so hard for you to go "Ok looks like I don't know shit, I'll shut up until I know what i'm talking about." I Look forward to you completely brushing off and misdirecting this post though. I can only bring a horse to water, it's your pride at being so thirsty that is galling.

Fucking. Dunning. Kruger.

Robbie · 09-10-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

Ok so you're just fucking totally clueless. I research petroleum geology for fun (and profit). This is my wheelhouse. I've had people who have worked for oil companies ask me for MY advice.. Shut the fuck up and listen to someone who actually knows what they're talking about:r.

Brother...you are trying to come across like you think you're smarter than me?

You're not.

You're so "smart" in "your wheelhouse" that you didn't even know about these finds and made asinine and uninformed statements

Now you're trying to back up and change it.

You're not discussing anything on here. You're trying to pretend that you're an oil expert. Like anybody cares.

Go join Paul Markham in the "expert" category.

I'm discussing what is being reported right now on the news and what potential impact it may have.

You are pretending that you are an expert in a field that would make you super rich...but instead you are insulting me on an adult webmaster forum. You aren't even remotely addressing the OP's original statement .

From reading your vitriolic attitude, my feeling is you don't have a "wheelhouse" in any field. You are unable to even have a discussion with any semblance of knowledge or debate.

bhutocracy · 09-10-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You are pretending that you are an expert in a field that would make you super rich...

Getting there!

KillerK · 09-11-2012, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhutocracy

Getting there!

You got owned!

Paul Markham · 09-11-2012, 12:58 AM

IF the US Government grant all the licenses applied to drill for oil.

IF the oil companies start drilling these finds right away.

IF the oil companies start flooding the market.

IF if the price drops.

Robbie can fill his gas guzzler cheaper. </sarcasm>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis

Yes Robbie is right. If the price of oil was to drop the recession would ease faster. Like it did in 1973 and how would the West fair?

In 1973 the West owned the World. We produced and sold so much of what the world consumed. Some was produced in the Third World, for the first and the money stayed in the First World.

Today it's different. China, India, Brazil, etc will get a huge boost as well. If only with American consumers buying their goods. Countries with an existing oil industry will take a hit. Oil is a commodity traded on the Exchanges, these prices will take a hit.

By the time all the IF fall into place. Robbie and many of other people will be gone from porn, sold their house, car and all the other baubles they collected during their good years.

<sarcasm>And most will be driving second hand Skodas by then. </sarcasm>

Even if there is oil in the US ground waiting to be pumped out. Don't dream it's coming out and the price will drop and Wonderland is coming back.

Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-22-2012, 05:59 AM

Fucking royalty owns the oil.

09-09-2012, 03:20 PM	#104
ErectMedia Confirmed Chicago Pimp Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 7,100	paying high $4 now in chicago, prices blow but car is rated 27 city/32 highway, on cruise can push 40+, if paying more meant less traffic I'd take it as it usually takes 50 minutes for a 10 mile commute downtown. __________________ Domain Name Registration Web3 Domains Last edited by ErectMedia; 09-09-2012 at 03:21 PM..

09-09-2012, 03:46 PM	#106
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	What's your evidence that we are ignoring these finds - lets look at it. I presume you mean the kerogen - the fossil carbon trapped in shales that we can process into liguid distillates that can then be refined into fuels. They are bringing the kerogen to market already, at a pretty decent clip, which is good news for us, because it helps keep the price spikes from supply depletion from the north sea and other opec and non-opec producers from sending the price of barrels back up to the 120-140 range. I think you THINK you understand what's going on, and you are repeating the industry mantras - and there IS a sudden explosion in nonconventional liquids into the marketplace. But, your claim that the government is suppressing things is mistaken, just like that wall street article you posted, the reality is the federal government is actively trying to get those extractions and liquids happening faster, or as fast as possible, given the objections of the states. I agree tho we should be converting the transport fleet to natural gas as fast as we can - but we americans have lost the abiolity to innovate in infrastructure, and the free market is broken. So, we will wait until the last possible moment, the start the infrastructure change after we should have, so it will cost us all a lot more. There are a lot of errors in your other writing, characteristic errors like thinking that oil produced in teh US can be used by the US, when in reality it will be sold into the planetary market - and the constant confusion about what the government allows and doesnt allow, and why - but lets look at this claim that we are "ignoring finds". Last edited by Bill8; 09-09-2012 at 03:49 PM..

09-09-2012, 08:03 PM	#118
crash_jackson Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA Posts: 591	This is why I live 5 minutes from work. Takes me weeks even with not so great mileage on my car to go through a tank. Gas companies will never want to give up their record profits and neither will their shareholders __________________ Amateur Japanese Babes - ARX Bucks HD Japanese, Interracial, Shemale Skype: southbaycontent

09-09-2012, 10:39 PM	#128
GAMEFINEST Make STACK$ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: sexy time Posts: 14,424	its simple, why would prices go down __________________ Compound interest.

09-10-2012, 06:54 AM	#132
SpeedoDave Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Aussie until we are convicts no more. Posts: 354	Have you seen natural gas prices? They are really low but are you saying it has nothing to do with the major increase in US domestic production over the last 5 years? Darn hippies - I'd prefer to buy oil from America than those darn rag heads. Dave __________________ I feel old since I started SpeedoFetish.com back in 2001.

09-09-2012, 04:04 PM	#108
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	How about, the price will not increase as quickly?

09-09-2012, 04:11 PM	#110
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	I dont recall ever mentioning solar and wind in these oil discussions, ever. Solar and wind play a role in the topic of switching to an electrocity economy, but we are still talking about a chemical liquids economy here, and solar and wind are not on the table. Yes I do happen to know a lot about it, it's a very interesting topic. Lets get back to the question - you say we are ignoring huge finds - what's your support for this claim? What is happening that you think is "ignoring", who is ignoring them? You are talking about the kerogen, right? How are we "ignoring" the kerogen? Or are you talking about something else? And no, I wont give it a break, as long as you keep spreading misinformation. Simple solution - you study up so when you say things it's supported.

09-09-2012, 05:34 PM	#113
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	Robbie, here's an article you need to read and understand. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...y-markets.html I'm curious - do you know how to interpret oilpatch code? What do you think this says? Then ask yourself this question - if what this article says is true, (and it is) why is the price of gasoline at an all time seasonal high right now?

09-09-2012, 06:20 PM	#115
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	I was way off on the number of refineries in the US but they are always plagued with "problems."

09-09-2012, 07:18 PM	#116
Bill8 Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 1,901	Speaking of the electricity economy - Germany is having some interesting problems. http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-850419.html The inherent limits of wind and solar require a different approach to an electrical grid - and some unique problems for industry and teh economy in general. I see this as a good argument for electric cars actually - the connection is I assume obvious. No? It's the batteries. Then we can take the fossil carbons, natural gas in particular, and use it to run smaller less expensive cogeneration planst for industry - indyustry gets reliable current and the surplus heat, a big win win. Our problem is, as a nation we have lost the ability to innovate infrastructure. the free market is reactive, not proactive, so it can't innovate, it only reacts to current demands. It assumes a stable state, and we have left stable state behind. We need leadership and vision, but we have built a system that punishes leadership and defunds vision. It's a paradox, much like the oil paradox, or the meritocracy paradox.

09-09-2012, 09:22 PM	#123
Barry-xlovecam It's 42 Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Global Posts: 18,083	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governm...ctric_vehicles World wide more up to date

09-09-2012, 10:36 PM	#127
epitome So Fucking Lame Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 12,156	Oil and gas are easy markets to manipulate. That is why leaders of countries with a lot of oil can spend hundreds of billions supporting their family. Its why all of the companies sit at the top of the Forbes list.

09-10-2012, 07:14 AM	#134
arock10 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,218	The oil companies spends loads of cash to lobby the government to get more or less whatever they want. They still make record profits eternally either way. Why would they want to drive the price of oil down? Also, some drilling methods as discussed earlier aren't viable if oil prices are below a certain level... which brings me to the natural gas part of things. Due to technological advances creating a huge oversupply, all the natural gas companies are losing money off it. Just ask halliburton... You think the oil companies would want this to happen to them? Hell no If you drive a fuel inefficient car, well just consider the extra price you pay for fuel part of its cost and don't complain. I find it hilarious when people buy a $50k+ car and then just HAVE to go to the gas station that's across the street because its 2 cents cheaper a gallon. Also that hairy pussy banner is fucking nasty and I really do not understand the point of showing it to webmasters. Plus I dunno about you but I have a tendency to browse GFY when I am eating and it really kills my desire to eat food. Just like I try to avoid updating cumshot sites when I am eating a bowl of cream of wheat __________________ Sup

09-10-2012, 07:24 AM	#135
sperbonzo I'd rather be on my boat. Industry Role: Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 9,748	Prices are determined by the commodities markets far more than they are by the Oil companies. So if new supplies come on to the markets, the price will go down. And the only people screwing us on the prices are the government that ladle on massive taxes to the gas you buy. Average profit for the companies that actually find, pull out, transport and refine the gas? 10 cents per gallon. Average profit for governments that do nothing to create or distribute this product? 80+ cents (in the US) (MUCH higher than that in some other countries). . __________________ Michael Sperber / Acella Financial LLC/ Online Payment Processing [email protected] / http://Acellafinancial.com/ ICQ 177961090 / Tel +1 909 NET BILL / Skype msperber

09-11-2012, 12:58 AM	#143
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	IF the US Government grant all the licenses applied to drill for oil. IF the oil companies start drilling these finds right away. IF the oil companies start flooding the market. IF if the price drops. Robbie can fill his gas guzzler cheaper. </sarcasm> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_oil_crisis Yes Robbie is right. If the price of oil was to drop the recession would ease faster. Like it did in 1973 and how would the West fair? In 1973 the West owned the World. We produced and sold so much of what the world consumed. Some was produced in the Third World, for the first and the money stayed in the First World. Today it's different. China, India, Brazil, etc will get a huge boost as well. If only with American consumers buying their goods. Countries with an existing oil industry will take a hit. Oil is a commodity traded on the Exchanges, these prices will take a hit. By the time all the IF fall into place. Robbie and many of other people will be gone from porn, sold their house, car and all the other baubles they collected during their good years. <sarcasm>And most will be driving second hand Skodas by then. </sarcasm> Even if there is oil in the US ground waiting to be pumped out. Don't dream it's coming out and the price will drop and Wonderland is coming back. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

09-22-2012, 05:59 AM	#144
Vapid - BANNED FOR LIFE Barterer Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 4,864	Fucking royalty owns the oil.