Striking at WalMart - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

slapass · 11-24-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

You mean the "management" that gave themselves raises with the approval of the board of directors and shareholders?

Seems quite a few felt there was merit to it? I mean, its not like its a decision thats unilaterally made by a single individual as many attempt to make it sound.

The shareholders are not involved in pay raises and the board has a tendency to rubber stamp that stuff. It was a dumb move and it is ok to say it was.

tony286 · 11-24-2012, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

That's more than minimum wage.

Whoa, your right of entitlement and distribution of wealth ideals remind me of someone half your age.

You live on $9 a hr and get back to me.lol
No bad dog you see I actually sell a product. My main customers are middle class, that crowd keeps shrinking there will be no one to buy my products.
Its not entitlement, you want to live in a third world country were there is only ultra rich and poor? Henry Ford did it and he boomed.Costco pays a good wage and they arent out of business. And you pay for walmart's low wages, is that so hard to understand?
Its not a matter of being liberal, its a matter of looking at the future at this country. This is the first kids wont do better than their parents that's not Obama's fault this has been brewing for 30 yrs. If it wasnt for cheap credit the middle class would of realized alot sooner their wages have been flat for a long long time.

tony286 · 11-24-2012, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

You will be affected Tony. Not me.
If you think Obama has your back, good luck with that.

Dude you dont know shit. I dont think any president has my back. I dont make big campaign contributions. lol

tony286 · 11-24-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

This is the problem with the direction of the nation. Its falling apart because "suck it up", "bust your ass", "learn" and "keep striving for something better" and "be successful" have long since been replaced with "hope and change" and "who's gonna give it to me?" and "what do you mean I can't rap??? - you don't know me!"

You're supposed to get a job digging ditches at 18. You're supposed to have 3 room mates, You're supposed to learn the value of hard work, of sacrifice and money. Your'e supposed to learn a strong work ethic. From that, you're supposed to want more, you're supposed to want to better yourself, educate yourself, improve your skills and to work for the things you want... not sit back and demand them as you do as little as humanly possible. You're not supposed to aspire to make $9.00 an hour as a grown adult and then bitch that life is unfair. The degree to which this nation has been dumbed down is astounding.

Yep and that was before a time ,you got laid off at 50 because it made for a better balance sheet. Actually there are people that make shit that work harder than you could ever imagine and they want nothing but a fair chance. This myth oh they make 9 dollars an hour they must be lazy. There are people that bust their ass for close to nothing and they are always in a hole.

tony286 · 11-24-2012, 10:01 AM

http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-N.../dp/0312626681
The Squealer read this book and get back to me. Then tell me about the lazy people making close to nothing.

Minte · 11-24-2012, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Yep and that was before a time ,you got laid off at 50 because it made for a better balance sheet. Actually there are people that make shit that work harder than you could ever imagine and they want nothing but a fair chance. This myth oh they make 9 dollars an hour they must be lazy. There are people that bust their ass for close to nothing and they are always in a hole.

And you and ilk are that naive to think that striking and screwing with the people who do provide jobs is going to help their cause. Now it's my turn to LOL... and again good luck with that plan.

xNetworx · 11-24-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Dude you dont know shit. I dont think any president has my back. I dont make big campaign contributions. lol

He has a huge factory and a lambo. He has to know something lol

As for the Wal_Mart workers, they can be easily replaced. Never strike if you can be easily replaced, just look for a different job

Sly · 11-24-2012, 10:15 AM

I'm curious Tony…

I have seen you complain many times about jobs going overseas. What do you think happens in the owners, and shareholders minds, when a workforce starts talking about strikes?

Barry-xlovecam · 11-24-2012, 10:21 AM

Greed gets rewarded ...

Quote:

Egalitarian motives in humans

Christopher T. Dawes1, James H. Fowler1, Tim Johnson2,3, Richard McElreath4 & Oleg Smirnov5

Department of Political Science, University of California, San Diego, California 92093, USA
Center for Adaptive Behaviour and Cognition, Max Planck Institute for Human Development, Lentzeallee 94, Berlin 14195, Germany
Department of Political Science, Stanford University, Palo Alto, California 94305, USA
Department of Anthropology, University of California, Davis, California 95616, USA
Department of Political Science, University of Miami, Coral Gables, Florida 33124, USA

Correspondence to: James H. Fowler1 Correspondence and requests for materials should be addressed to J.H.F. (Email: [email protected]).

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture05651.html
Abstract

Participants in laboratory games are often willing to alter others' incomes at a cost to themselves, and this behaviour has the effect of promoting cooperation1, 2, 3. What motivates this action is unclear: punishment and reward aimed at promoting cooperation cannot be distinguished from attempts to produce equality4. To understand costly taking and costly giving, we create an experimental game that isolates egalitarian motives. The results show that subjects reduce and augment others? incomes, at a personal cost, even when there is no cooperative behaviour to be reinforced. Furthermore, the size and frequency of income alterations are strongly influenced by inequality. Emotions towards top earners become increasingly negative as inequality increases, and those who express these emotions spend more to reduce above-average earners' incomes and to increase below-average earners' incomes. The results suggest that egalitarian motives affect income-altering behaviours, and may therefore be an important factor underlying the evolution of strong reciprocity5 and, hence, cooperation in humans.

tony286 · 11-24-2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CamBoss

He has a huge factory and a lambo. He has to know something lol

As for the Wal_Mart workers, they can be easily replaced. Never strike if you can be easily replaced, just look for a different job

He knows shit about me and what affects me. I dont doubt or take away from his success. He tells us how well he treats his workers so it baffles me when he sticks to the same tired right wing talking points when that's not him.

woj · 11-24-2012, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-N.../dp/0312626681
The Squealer read this book and get back to me. Then tell me about the lazy people making close to nothing.

we don't need a book... we've lived through it ourselves, I started with nothing just like the people in that book, but through hard work I got a chance to taste success... I'm not even really successful by any means, but I learned how the system works, so I'll continue rowing the boat until one day I get there...

and here is a free pro tip:
don't read books like that, they just reinforce your belief that life is unfair and that the rich are out to get you... read some books by successful people, and learn from them instead...

tony286 · 11-24-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

I'm curious Tony?

I have seen you complain many times about jobs going overseas. What do you think happens in the owners, and shareholders minds, when a workforce starts talking about strikes?

Well if you treat them well and they can make a living you dont have to worry about that. Wall st had problem with costco paying the wages they pay they said its not in line with retail. The ceo basically said fuck you. Because its actually good business, you get people that stay and not constant turn over, it becomes a real career. Turn over costs alot of money.
Also once again most porn customers are middle class that keeps shrinking say good bye to your business. Unless you run a porn version of the dollar store.

tony286 · 11-24-2012, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

we don't need a book... we've lived through it ourselves, I started with nothing just like the people in that book, but through hard work I got a chance to taste success... I'm not even really successful by any means, but I learned how the system works, so I'll continue to rowing the boat until one day I get there...

and here is a free pro tip:
don't read books like that, they just reinforce your belief that life is unfair and that the rich are out to get you... read some books by successful people, and learn from them instead...

Dude you want to compare book collections? I dont think anyone is out to get me but I dont live in fairy land and see hard facts. The middle class is shrinking, all those people just are lazy? How can you say that and keep a straight face?

Rochard · 11-24-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

This is the problem with the direction of the nation. Its falling apart because "suck it up", "bust your ass", "learn" and "keep striving for something better" and "be successful" have long since been replaced with "hope and change" and "who's gonna give it to me?" and "what do you mean I can't rap??? - you don't know me!"

You're supposed to get a job digging ditches at 18. You're supposed to have 3 room mates, You're supposed to learn the value of hard work, of sacrifice and money. Your'e supposed to learn a strong work ethic. From that, you're supposed to want more, you're supposed to want to better yourself, educate yourself, improve your skills and to work for the things you want... not sit back and demand them as you do as little as humanly possible. You're not supposed to aspire to make $9.00 an hour as a grown adult and then bitch that life is unfair. The degree to which this nation has been dumbed down is astounding.

Exactly. You have to earn it.

I remember the moment I had my epiphany in the work place. I had been working in a fast food restaurant and I had seniority when the management position opened up. "No one works harder than me" I thought, and I was sure I had the job. I was stunned when they hired a forty-five year old fat single mom who had no motivation in her what so ever. I mean, seriously - she was forty-five and still working in fast food full time? I promised myself I would run circles around her and I did, and six months later she was fired and I got the job.

This is what makes America what is. If you want more you have work more, you have work harder.... And you will be well rewarded.

Wal Mart is an entry level job. Why would anyone pay more than minimum wage for an entry level job? If you are forty-five years old and working an entry level job, you need to take a serious look around and figure out what you did wrong and fix it.

TheSquealer · 11-24-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Yep and that was before a time ,you got laid off at 50 because it made for a better balance sheet.

Uhm... thats how it works. When you are cash rich and growing, you hire more people. When you are contracting financially, you scale back.

It's totally fucking insane that people feel they are entitled to a job or that a single company is obligated to employ them in perpetuity and live up to the dumbest, least educated guy's in the rooms idea of "fair".

Sly · 11-24-2012, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

we don't need a book... we've lived through it ourselves, I started with nothing just like the people in that book, but through hard work I got a chance to taste success... I'm not even really successful by any means, but I learned how the system works, so I'll continue rowing the boat until one day I get there...

and here is a free pro tip:
don't read books like that, they just reinforce your belief that life is unfair and that the rich are out to get you... read some books by successful people, and learn from them instead...

My free pro tip:
Stop expecting anyone to give you anything. Take what you want.

Rochard · 11-24-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

If you think Obama has your back, good luck with that.

And you think Romney would have "had our back" - because that's fucking comical. You are talking a man who sent jobs to Asia and then sent Americans into the unemployment line.

Did Bush "have our back" too? Because I must have missed that when exactly half of the houses on my street went vacant when Bush was in office.

Wal Mart has been in business for many years and yet how many Republican presidents did anything to help the cause of the average Wal Mart employee?

You seem to think that who sits in the oval office decides how small businesses will react. You seem to think that small businesses will be less likely to expand while a Democrat is in office. Small business owners do not sit in their office and say "Gee, I have a great offer to expand my business by buying another location, but there is a Democrat in office so it's not a good time to expand". Bullshit.

And what's most ironic here is that you are here telling us that small businesses will not expand because of Obama, mean time, your business expanded and you have a larger building than before. Because a Republican White House put us in the worst recession since the 1930s, you were in a position to expand your business - even though Obama was in office and the economy was still in shambles you jumped at the chance. That's the nature of business.

woj · 11-24-2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Dude you want to compare book collections? I dont think anyone is out to get me but I dont live in fairy land and see hard facts. The middle class is shrinking, all those people just are lazy? How can you say that and keep a straight face?

honestly, I don't really care if the middle class is shrinking or not, what difference does it really make? All I really care is where I'm at, where I want to be in 5 years, and I work on getting there... if things are getting tougher, obviously I need to row harder and/or change strategy, not bitch/whine, point fingers at the 1% and hope government will save me...

PornoMonster · 11-24-2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

It's not only about supply and demand.

There is a PROBLEM with WalMarts ENORMOUS profits while the workers live in poverty and lean on the taxpayer. That problem can be addressed legislatively. If We The People decide the status quo is an outrage, we can change it. The country is here for the people. The people make the rules. Not the corporations. The problem is we've forgotten that. We're half asleep. We can MAKE WalMart cover health insurance. We can MAKE them pay higher wages by raising the minimum wage.

WE decide the rules. If a company is going to do business in America (and they DO want to) then they should be required to pay their employees a livable wage. If they can't afford to, then they can't afford to be in business. (WalMart can So afford to).

The Federal Government has set Min Wage.
Why JUST Walmart should have to pay more??? Then ALL Businesses should have to pay Livable wages? Or is this just something against walmart???

Sly · 11-24-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Well if you treat them well and they can make a living you dont have to worry about that. Wall st had problem with costco paying the wages they pay they said its not in line with retail. The ceo basically said fuck you. Because its actually good business, you get people that stay and not constant turn over, it becomes a real career. Turn over costs alot of money.
Also once again most porn customers are middle class that keeps shrinking say good bye to your business. Unless you run a porn version of the dollar store.

What exactly is a "well living" and how can any company be responsible for a given family? What a "well living" is for one family is not even going to be remotely close to what a "well living" is for another family.

Again, we are back to the "fair", "good pay", "make a living" phrases that nobody can define because a definition does not exist.

The Hostess situation is a great example. I looked over a few of their benefits and their pay situation, much better than many office employees get. They were asked for a temporary price reduction, which they would get back, and to kick into their health benefits program. I don't see how any of that is unreasonable.

Temporary pay cut, health insurance contributions and everyone gets to keep their job. Instead, they said no, that's not "fair" enough, and now everyone lost their job. That sounds totally "fair."

BlackCrayon · 11-24-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

honestly, I don't really care if the middle class is shrinking or not, what difference does it really make? All I really care is where I'm at, where I want to be in 5 years, and I work on getting there... if things are getting tougher, obviously I need to row harder and/or change strategy, not bitch/whine, point fingers at the 1% and hope government will save me...

what happens when no matter which way or how hard you row or how many times you change direction you just can't make it work?

PornoMonster · 11-24-2012, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

Just wondering if I have this right. Walmart makes so much money that they should just give everyone a raise to almost double what minimum wage is, thus making it where no mom & pop operation can get any employees?

Ding Ding Ding..

Rochard · 11-24-2012, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-N.../dp/0312626681
The Squealer read this book and get back to me. Then tell me about the lazy people making close to nothing.

I just bought it - might be interesting.

TheSquealer · 11-24-2012, 11:03 AM

After growing up with Union welders making crazy money but demanding more all the time as their skills and work quality was sub-par... and then watching them constantly whine about too much work for too little pay while being totally baffled that companies were trying to avoid hiring union... there is one incident which I witnessed that remains etched in my mind.

A 300' trawler is in a ship yard. It has to be out on Day X and each day late of course is going to cost 6 figures in revenue.

A mount for a winch needs to be welded so the winch can be mounted and hooked up to hydraulics.

I'm getting pissed that it isn't done because it was supposed to be done from the start as the winches are needed to get the rest of the gear on board and get ready to fish.

I finally track down a welder and beg him to weld the mount.

He says "I can't"
"why?", I asked.
"well, those tools are there and i'm not allowed to touch them", he replies.
I go to move the tools, not knowing or caring whose they are and he freaks out.

Can't touch anything of theirs. Period.

So, i'm livid. I need to find out who's tools they are so the guy can get them out of the way.

I spend a couple hours running around like an asshole trying to find whoever was working in that spot.

Finally, I do and get him to pick up his fucking shit.

I go back to the welder.

"ok, the tools are gone, can we get this done please?"

"i'd like to, but I can't", he says

Now i'm past fury and have come full circle to amused

"Uhmm, why can't you?"

"That light bulb is out. Its a safety issue and I can get into a lot of trouble", he calmly says.

"Ok, fuck it, i'll be right back", I say as I leave to get a bulb.

"no no... you can't change it. That's the electricians job. Seriously man, we can get into trouble if we change it", he says almost frantically.

Now, i'm a little irritated again, having spent hours fucking with this 20 minute welding job that I should have just done myself.

I leave to find the electrician.

After wasting another hour running around the shipyard like i've got nothing to do, I finally find the electrician who is responsible for our job and explain that the light needs to be changed so the welder can do his job.

He laughs. "you need to find the apprentice, thats not my job, thats his job"
"Where's he at", I asked
"dunno, i'm busy" he replies

So again, off I go to find one more asshole in a chain of assholes.

Long story short, I spent the whole fucking day trying to get a simple 20 minute task done because somehow that simple task ended up involving a dozen people that were not only apathetic, but that seemed to relish in the fact that they could comfortably interfere with the work being done.

These are the people that feel everything is "unfair"
These are the people that think they need to be dictating how a business is to be run

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~

I remember oil refineries close to my house where much of my family worked doing "turn arounds" where they shut down production for maintenance for a 6-8 weeks. One of those refineries was owned by Tesoro.

All of my fathers, grandfathers, uncles and their friends tools had "Tesoro" etched on them. I honestly thought that Tesoro made tools.

As I got older, I came to understand that Tesoro would have to budget in ~$300,000.00 just for the tools that would get stolen in those weeks.

How did they get stolen?

Well, the union guys had it in their contracts that they could not be searched, their lunch boxes could not be opened etc. So they would wipe the place out.

But lets get this straight....they were treated "unfair". I heard about that non-stop. They would beg for the right to get to work 7 hrs a day, 14hr shifts with double pay for overtime and make a huge amount of money in that time... but if you asked them, everything was unfair. Their nice houses were unfair. Their fully stocked garages were unfair. Their new vehicles every 12 months were unfair. Having the cash and time for 2-3 vacations a year was unfair. Everything was unfair and according to them, they deserved more.

PornoMonster · 11-24-2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astronaut x

In 2004.... One Wal-Mart store with 200 ?associates? costs taxpayers over $420,000 per year in government assistance to the poor.

Don't even get me started on the millions in cash incentives they receive from local governments to open new stores. In many cases they are given the land to build on and the city hooks them up for free with water, sewer, etc... all paid by you. The American taxpayer. They also receive millions a year in cash incentives to keep the stores they build, where they are.

They have already put the mom and pops out of business.

Do I really need to mention anything about the chinese?

Holy fuck some of you are stupid as shit on this subject.

And what would it of cost tax payers if these 200 didn't have ANY Job??? Double? Tripple?? You know your assistance amount is based on how much you make??

PornoMonster · 11-24-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Another of the GFY simpletons with an opinion and nothing to back it up.

Now that the Obama gang thinks they have business where they want it, they are embolden. Yet they forget that it's business that has the cash. Last week the bakers found out first hand who has the power. 18,000 union members go hungry and the owners take their citation jets off to the islands for the holidays.

Here is a short list of where the Obama/democrat campaign funds come from. Do you see the pattern. The top number over every contributor is to the democrats. The lower to the republicans.

American Fed. of State, County, & Municipal Employees
Dem - $40,281,900
Rep - $547,700

Intel Brotherhood of Electrical Workers
Dem - 29,705,600
Reb - 679,000

National Education Association
27,679,300
2,005,200

Service Employees International Union
26,368,470
98,700

Communication Workers of America
26,305,500
125,300

Service Employees International Union
26,252,000
1,086,200

Laborers Union
25,734,000
138,000

American Federation of Teachers
25,682,800
200,000

United Auto Workers
25,082,200
182,700

Teamsters Union
24,926,400
1,822,000

Carpenters and Joiners Union
24,094,100
658,000

Machinists & Aerospace Workers Union
23,875,600
226,300

United Food and Commercial Workers Union
23,182,000
334,200

AFL-CIO
17,124,300
713,500

Sheet Metal Workers Union
16,347,200
342,800

Plumbers & Pipefitters Union
14,790,000
818,500

Operating Engineers Union
13,840,000
2,309,500

Airline Pilots Association
12,806,600
2,398,300

International Association of Firefighters
12,421,700
2,685,400

United Transportation Workers
11,807,000
1,459,300

Ironworkers Union
11,638,900
936,000

American Postal Workers Union
11,633,100
544,300

Nat'l Active & Retired Fed. Employees Association
8,135,400
2,294,600

Seafarers International Union
6,726,800
1,281,300

I think all this Money should be given to Walmart employees

TheSquealer · 11-24-2012, 11:07 AM

I'm also happy to know that all those here have never turned down a designer and programmer because they wanted too much money. Good for you guys. Good for you, for being "fair" according to the standards of someone else. I respect that.

Minte · 11-24-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochard

And you think Romney would have "had our back" - because that's fucking comical. You are talking a man who sent jobs to Asia and then sent Americans into the unemployment line.

Did Bush "have our back" too? Because I must have missed that when exactly half of the houses on my street went vacant when Bush was in office.

Wal Mart has been in business for many years and yet how many Republican presidents did anything to help the cause of the average Wal Mart employee?

You seem to think that who sits in the oval office decides how small businesses will react. You seem to think that small businesses will be less likely to expand while a Democrat is in office. Small business owners do not sit in their office and say "Gee, I have a great offer to expand my business by buying another location, but there is a Democrat in office so it's not a good time to expand". Bullshit.

And what's most ironic here is that you are here telling us that small businesses will not expand because of Obama, mean time, your business expanded and you have a larger building than before. Because a Republican White House put us in the worst recession since the 1930s, you were in a position to expand your business - even though Obama was in office and the economy was still in shambles you jumped at the chance. That's the nature of business.

Get off your soapbox. no one is interested. I am talking about people going on strike and losing more than they already lost.

Why didn't the hostess people strike the week before the election?

I will tell you what the difference is between people that can grow during a recession and those that can't. It's equity. When you and I first met all those years ago, I had already been in business for many years. Over those years, I have paid back the banks and borrowed more and larger amounts. My debt-equity rating is in the 22% range. I can borrow 8 figures easily now and probably 9 if I wear a nice suit and listen and don't talk to much. That's the difference.

Someone who wants to start something new today, has the deck so stacked against them it's terrible. It was stacked against me at the start, but then businesses were NOT the enemy like they are today.

The false sense of bravado and security the unions have with the reelection of Obama will do nothing positive for workers. It will only cost them more jobs,as we've already seen.

PornoMonster · 11-24-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

You live on $9 a hr and get back to me.lol
No bad dog you see I actually sell a product. My main customers are middle class, that crowd keeps shrinking there will be no one to buy my products.
Its not entitlement, you want to live in a third world country were there is only ultra rich and poor? Henry Ford did it and he boomed.Costco pays a good wage and they arent out of business. And you pay for walmart's low wages, is that so hard to understand?
Its not a matter of being liberal, its a matter of looking at the future at this country. This is the first kids wont do better than their parents that's not Obama's fault this has been brewing for 30 yrs. If it wasnt for cheap credit the middle class would of realized alot sooner their wages have been flat for a long long time.

Do you not understand that if these bottom people @ Min wage (but they are higher) you make the bottom wage say $15 an hour, everything else in the world adjusts and thus they are in the same PLACE....

Nasty · 11-24-2012, 11:17 AM

This is not about minimum wage jobs, this is about a company that considers 32 hrs or less a full week so they don't have to pay any benefits. This also has nothing to do with obamacare, taxpayers have been picking up the walmart tab for years while Sam Walton's heirs are worth around 100 billion dollars. And I don't believe the strike originated in the stores, it originated in the walmart warehouses where workers claim they regurly worked 10-12 hrs a day for 8 hrs pay. I have no problem with min wage jobs, want better you can get a trade or go to school. I do have a problem when my tax money is used to offset a walmart employees pay.

BlackCrayon · 11-24-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

but then businesses were NOT the enemy like they are today.

Why has it become like that? i know people like you, woj and squealer like to blame the workers but i believe the blame lies on both sides. with so many jobs going overseas, people see that as a huge threat and unions or no unions, it won't bring the jobs back.

Sly · 11-24-2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasty

This is not about minimum wage jobs, this is about a company that considers 32 hrs or less a full week so they don't have to pay any benefits. This also has nothing to do with obamacare, taxpayers have been picking up the walmart tab for years while Sam Walton's heirs are worth around 100 billion dollars. And I don't believe the strike originated in the stores, it originated in the walmart warehouses where workers claim they regurly worked 10-12 hrs a day for 8 hrs pay. I have no problem with min wage jobs, want better you can get a trade or go to school. I do have a problem when my tax money is used to offset a walmart employees pay.

I'm curious. What government benefits are these people getting? And shouldn't this be a bitch about the government, not Walmart? If the government is giving benefits to people that are working 32 hours a week, it has to make you scratch your head. Doesn't it?

BlackCrayon · 11-24-2012, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I'm also happy to know that all those here have never turned down a designer and programmer because they wanted too much money. Good for you guys. Good for you, for being "fair" according to the standards of someone else. I respect that.

if you want to use that as some kind of comparison, it would be more like you hired a designer to do work for x amount, and then come back to him for more of the exact same work but instead saying you will only pay so much less now.

tony286 · 11-24-2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woj

honestly, I don't really care if the middle class is shrinking or not, what difference does it really make? All I really care is where I'm at, where I want to be in 5 years, and I work on getting there... if things are getting tougher, obviously I need to row harder and/or change strategy, not bitch/whine, point fingers at the 1% and hope government will save me...

Because I disagree with labor practices somehow I'm looking for the government to save me. Do you see how brainwashed you are? I've been a small business owner for over ten years, going at 48 to get my college degree. Facts can't ignored in business even if they are painful to look at.

Sly · 11-24-2012, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

Because I disagree with labor practices somehow I'm looking for the government to save me. Do you see how brainwashed you are? I've been a small business owner for over ten years, going at 48 to get my college degree. Facts can't ignored in business even if they are painful to look at.

What kind of benefits package do you offer your employees? Are you having a difficult time handling the health insurance increases every year? Or have you been able to cover that with your overall growth?

tony286 · 11-24-2012, 11:30 AM

It double posted

PornoMonster · 11-24-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nasty

This is not about minimum wage jobs, this is about a company that considers 32 hrs or less a full week so they don't have to pay any benefits. This also has nothing to do with obamacare, taxpayers have been picking up the walmart tab for years while Sam Walton's heirs are worth around 100 billion dollars. And I don't believe the strike originated in the stores, it originated in the walmart warehouses where workers claim they regurly worked 10-12 hrs a day for 8 hrs pay. I have no problem with min wage jobs, want better you can get a trade or go to school. I do have a problem when my tax money is used to offset a walmart employees pay.

Working 10-12 for 8 hours pay is illegal and something should be done if true.

If you are upset about walmart who pays more than min wage, then you ALSO need to be mad at ALL the other places who combined that pay min wage have more employees than walmart.....

Kroger also has a 32 hour work week, but if you work 32+ hours you get Benefits. So you could work 35 hours instead of the 40 and get benefits.
I believe lots of companies will soon follow this model as Kroger is starting to ramp up hiring more part time workers. Why should a company have to pay for benefits when you as a person will soon be REQUIRED to buy them or if you qualify get them for FREE...

UPS -- You must work at $8.50 an hour, very hard work (up to 70lbs box every few seconds), very little heat in the winter and no air conditioning in the summer. If you make it a YEAR, you then get benefits, and 18 Months to get family benefits... No Paid Hollidays for a year, No Sick days ever, you start earning vacation after one year. (so two years you get vacation)

Lots of Big Companies can be listed ....

Minte · 11-24-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

Why has it become like that? i know people like you, woj and squealer like to blame the workers but i believe the blame lies on both sides. with so many jobs going overseas, people see that as a huge threat and unions or no unions, it won't bring the jobs back.

I don't blame the workers. I blame the unions. Look at the chart I posted. Add up how much money they gave away to politicians. They are lobbyists of the worst kind. They propose to be speaking for the workers,when the facts are they are speaking for the top people in the unions who don't want to lose their cushy jobs and inflated salaries.

Next I blame the government. And not just the current one. For over a decade they stood by and did nothing while millions of jobs went to China. They allowed the Chinese to import basically duty and hassle free. Today, it's still expensive and difficult to ship there. The government allowed the Chinese to manipulate currency and they still do.
The Chinese still subsidize their manufacturing base with cut-rate costs on raw materials and energy. They still have a VAT that pays CHinese factories 7% on every dollar they send to the US.

baddog · 11-24-2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

You live on $9 a hr and get back to me.

I am not sure why we are wasting time with a Labor Dept, we can just put you in charge of everything.

TheSquealer · 11-24-2012, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

Why has it become like that? i know people like you, woj and squealer like to blame the workers but i believe the blame lies on both sides.

I'm only talking about the problems with unions. Not workers. There is a huge difference.

Robbie · 11-24-2012, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

We are talking about an entry level job.

Yep and if unions have their way there will not be any entry level jobs left in this country.

It's already damn near impossible for a teenager to find a job. Let the unions take over Walmart and they will have that job shut out for them too.

And just reading all these posts blows my mind.

Obviously our country now thinks that if you get a job they are not only supposed to pay you to do your job...but also take care of you like a freakin' baby.

Am I the only guy left in America who doesn't expect somebody else to pay for me to go the goddamn doctor?

Sly · 11-24-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Am I the only guy left in America who doesn't expect somebody else to pay for me to go the goddamn doctor?

No. I pay mid 4 figures a month in medical expenses, out-of-pocket. That's my responsibility, not yours.

BlackCrayon · 11-24-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

I'm only talking about the problems with unions. Not workers. There is a huge difference.

what was the working world like before unions? what will it be after unions? i think most people can agree that unions have lost their way and the money behind them is corrupting them but if you take them away, then what? do the workers not deserve some kind of protection against loss of wages, benefits, etc?

Robbie · 11-24-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

what was the working world like before unions? what will it be after unions? i think most people can agree that unions have lost their way and the money behind them is corrupting them but if you take them away, then what? do the workers not deserve some kind of protection against loss of wages, benefits, etc?

I don't know if that's the way it would go again. We have lots of govt. regulations and it's not gonna be like the 1930's again with labor.

BlackCrayon · 11-24-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I don't know if that's the way it would go again. We have lots of govt. regulations and it's not gonna be like the 1930's again with labor.

there are lots of environmental, workplace safety and minimum wage laws but are there any laws that would stop a company from suddenly firing everyone and then rehiring other people who will work for half the wage?

TheSquealer · 11-24-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

what was the working world like before unions?

You mean ... "What was it like working before the substantial body of state an federal labor laws, rules and regulations existed" and "what will it be Ike to work web that substantial body of laws, rules and regulations dissapear?"

BlackCrayon · 11-24-2012, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSquealer

You mean ... "What was it like working before the substantial body of state an federal labor laws, rules and regulations existed existed" and "what will it be Ike to work web that substantial body of laws, rules. And regulations dissapear?"

unions were the ones who got these laws in place. without them, would they slowly be eroded? the financial industry is constantly trying to remove laws that protect consumers, i don't doubt the same could apply here. there needs to be some kind of middle or balance in the power struggle between owners and workers. maybe the money equation needs to be taken out of unions or something completely different needs to be set up.

TheSquealer · 11-24-2012, 12:59 PM

If we're using baseless hypotheticals to make a point - one might also ask "what if Godzilla strolls into town and..."

The "struggle between owners and workers" is determined by the market. Tech companies aren't hiring based on union contracts ", neither are law firms, accounting firms etc etc etc etc where you are hired and fired based on merit. Seems to work just fine when attracting skilled and talented people.the people making the most noise are often the lowest common denominator and the least qualified to determine how a business should be run.

Robbie · 11-24-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

there are lots of environmental, workplace safety and minimum wage laws but are there any laws that would stop a company from suddenly firing everyone and then rehiring other people who will work for half the wage?

I don't think there is a law like that...but we do live in a free society. I would guess that if a person owned a company and did that he would have the freedom to do so.

But first he would have to be paying his current employees at least twice the minimum wage in order to hire people at half that price.

And if he were going to fire his entire workforce it would by necessity have to be an unskilled labor force to begin with (since training new workers for a skilled job would be too cost intensive).

And if it's an unskilled labor force (like Walmart for instance)...they wouldn't be paying them twice the minimum wage to begin with so they wouldn't have any reason to fire all of them to get people for half the money because it wouldn't be possible.

astronaut x · 11-24-2012, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tony286

You are funny its the bakers fault not the douchebag management that were taking 70 to 100 percent raises. You have to come up with a new straw man unions make up less than 7 percent of the work force. May old Obama won because he had better ideas then the same tried bullshit your side has been pedaling for years.

You are right, it wasn't the unions...

Hedge fund companies Silverpoint and Monarch kept loading the company with debt and filed bankruptcy twice, each time threatening union workers to accept less and less pay in order to keep the company afloat, which the union did. Finally after loading the company with debt a third time, there was no room left to bargain with union workers. Over 15,000 people are losing there jobs and these 2 hedgefunds will make huge profits selling off the brands it owns.

basically Hostess got "ROMNEYFIED" or "BAINED"...whichever term you would like to use.

11-24-2012, 10:15 AM	#158
Sly Let's do some business! Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 31,296	I'm curious Tony… I have seen you complain many times about jobs going overseas. What do you think happens in the owners, and shareholders minds, when a workforce starts talking about strikes? __________________ Vacares - Web Hosting, Domains, O365, Security & More - Paxum and BTC Accepted Windows VPS now available - just $50/mo Wanted: CCBill pay sites for sale

11-24-2012, 11:03 AM	#174
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,112	After growing up with Union welders making crazy money but demanding more all the time as their skills and work quality was sub-par... and then watching them constantly whine about too much work for too little pay while being totally baffled that companies were trying to avoid hiring union... there is one incident which I witnessed that remains etched in my mind. A 300' trawler is in a ship yard. It has to be out on Day X and each day late of course is going to cost 6 figures in revenue. A mount for a winch needs to be welded so the winch can be mounted and hooked up to hydraulics. I'm getting pissed that it isn't done because it was supposed to be done from the start as the winches are needed to get the rest of the gear on board and get ready to fish. I finally track down a welder and beg him to weld the mount. He says "I can't" "why?", I asked. "well, those tools are there and i'm not allowed to touch them", he replies. I go to move the tools, not knowing or caring whose they are and he freaks out. Can't touch anything of theirs. Period. So, i'm livid. I need to find out who's tools they are so the guy can get them out of the way. I spend a couple hours running around like an asshole trying to find whoever was working in that spot. Finally, I do and get him to pick up his fucking shit. I go back to the welder. "ok, the tools are gone, can we get this done please?" "i'd like to, but I can't", he says Now i'm past fury and have come full circle to amused "Uhmm, why can't you?" "That light bulb is out. Its a safety issue and I can get into a lot of trouble", he calmly says. "Ok, fuck it, i'll be right back", I say as I leave to get a bulb. "no no... you can't change it. That's the electricians job. Seriously man, we can get into trouble if we change it", he says almost frantically. Now, i'm a little irritated again, having spent hours fucking with this 20 minute welding job that I should have just done myself. I leave to find the electrician. After wasting another hour running around the shipyard like i've got nothing to do, I finally find the electrician who is responsible for our job and explain that the light needs to be changed so the welder can do his job. He laughs. "you need to find the apprentice, thats not my job, thats his job" "Where's he at", I asked "dunno, i'm busy" he replies So again, off I go to find one more asshole in a chain of assholes. Long story short, I spent the whole fucking day trying to get a simple 20 minute task done because somehow that simple task ended up involving a dozen people that were not only apathetic, but that seemed to relish in the fact that they could comfortably interfere with the work being done. These are the people that feel everything is "unfair" These are the people that think they need to be dictating how a business is to be run ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~ I remember oil refineries close to my house where much of my family worked doing "turn arounds" where they shut down production for maintenance for a 6-8 weeks. One of those refineries was owned by Tesoro. All of my fathers, grandfathers, uncles and their friends tools had "Tesoro" etched on them. I honestly thought that Tesoro made tools. As I got older, I came to understand that Tesoro would have to budget in ~$300,000.00 just for the tools that would get stolen in those weeks. How did they get stolen? Well, the union guys had it in their contracts that they could not be searched, their lunch boxes could not be opened etc. So they would wipe the place out. But lets get this straight....they were treated "unfair". I heard about that non-stop. They would beg for the right to get to work 7 hrs a day, 14hr shifts with double pay for overtime and make a huge amount of money in that time... but if you asked them, everything was unfair. Their nice houses were unfair. Their fully stocked garages were unfair. Their new vehicles every 12 months were unfair. Having the cash and time for 2-3 vacations a year was unfair. Everything was unfair and according to them, they deserved more. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

11-24-2012, 11:07 AM	#177
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,112	I'm also happy to know that all those here have never turned down a designer and programmer because they wanted too much money. Good for you guys. Good for you, for being "fair" according to the standards of someone else. I respect that. __________________ . Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens. Rochard

11-24-2012, 11:17 AM	#180
Nasty Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Sunny Fucking California Posts: 1,575	This is not about minimum wage jobs, this is about a company that considers 32 hrs or less a full week so they don't have to pay any benefits. This also has nothing to do with obamacare, taxpayers have been picking up the walmart tab for years while Sam Walton's heirs are worth around 100 billion dollars. And I don't believe the strike originated in the stores, it originated in the walmart warehouses where workers claim they regurly worked 10-12 hrs a day for 8 hrs pay. I have no problem with min wage jobs, want better you can get a trade or go to school. I do have a problem when my tax money is used to offset a walmart employees pay. __________________ “Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. We know more about war than we know about peace, more about killing than we know about living. If we continue to develop our technology without wisdom or prudence, our servant may prove to be our executioner.” ― Omar Bradley (1948)

11-24-2012, 11:30 AM	#186
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	It double posted Last edited by tony286; 11-24-2012 at 11:32 AM..

11-24-2012, 10:01 AM	#155
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-N.../dp/0312626681 The Squealer read this book and get back to me. Then tell me about the lazy people making close to nothing.

11-24-2012, 12:59 PM	#198
TheSquealer BANNED Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In Your Head Posts: 25,112	If we're using baseless hypotheticals to make a point - one might also ask "what if Godzilla strolls into town and..." The "struggle between owners and workers" is determined by the market. Tech companies aren't hiring based on union contracts ", neither are law firms, accounting firms etc etc etc etc where you are hired and fired based on merit. Seems to work just fine when attracting skilled and talented people.the people making the most noise are often the lowest common denominator and the least qualified to determine how a business should be run. Last edited by TheSquealer; 11-24-2012 at 01:00 PM..