MSNBC Makes It Official: ObamaCare Is Gonna Cost People MORE In HealthCare - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

6South · 04-03-2013, 04:37 PM

It really amazes me the number of people online these days talking about how we need a "revolution" in America.

No, we don't need to resort to violence, we just need to stop voting like idiots. A new party with a signed platform to reform campaigns, put term limits in for all govt offices, etc would address a lot of this "for profit" public service.

We could take the post office and turn it over to Fed Ex then take the tens of billions we save and use it to give every American the federal health insurance program. I don't see any politicians suggesting this, however.

PornoMonster · 04-03-2013, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Your doctors are Doctor Pelosi and Doctor Reid with Doctor Obama as head surgeon.

The govt. and the insurance companies know what's best for you...resistance is futile.

well unfortunately who ever, the Ones I had to "TRY" before they would cover a cheaper one, had such a bad and very common side affect, I think I almost died.

I asked my doctor why the cheaper one is not covered. He said just because it Appears cheaper to us, we do not know what kick backs are going on in the background...

Grapesoda · 04-03-2013, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

You've been able to buy insurance for awhile now. I have preexisting condition coverage and pay $205/month through the evil government. I dread when I have go to private coverage and get raped.

I'm paying $398 a month because I had hepatitis in 1973, my liver is fine. no issues at all

dyna mo · 04-03-2013, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6South

It really amazes me the number of people online these days talking about how we need a "revolution" in America.

No, we don't need to resort to violence, we just need to stop voting like idiots. A new party with a signed platform to reform campaigns, put term limits in for all govt offices, etc would address a lot of this "for profit" public service.

We could take the post office and turn it over to Fed Ex then take the tens of billions we save and use it to give every American the federal health insurance program. I don't see any politicians suggesting this, however.

actually the usps could run at a profit, but is hamstrung by congress requiring it to prepay its pension program 50 years out into the future, i.e., they have to estimate # of employees out to 2063 this year and pay into an account 100% of all those employees' pension plan dollars.

congress then takes that money and fritters it away on other things.

Grapesoda · 04-03-2013, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWB

I recently had my appendix removed and spent 3 days in a private hospital (private room) with excellent care from a surgeon who went to school in the USA and cute Asian nurses who flirted with me around the clock. Total cost: $2300

Based on the info I have found online, the average price in the USA for the same thing: $33,611

Point is, the cost of health care in the USA is just astronomical. I honestly don't know how the average Joe who is not insured can afford anything at all. And heaven help you if you have kids.

I was in the hospital for 4 days due to an allergic reaction to antibiotics... no surgeries at all.. the hospital bills was $50k and change. the ins discount brought the bill to 10K and change, my portion was 5.6k and change

Grapesoda · 04-03-2013, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

a bunch of corporations own the US government, and everyone is still surprised that every 'do good' legislation gets hacked to corporate welfare pieces?

hummm.... think that's why the US is referred to as a 'military industrial complex'?

DWB · 04-03-2013, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

I was in the hospital for 4 days due to an allergic reaction to antibiotics... no surgeries at all.. the hospital bills was $50k and change. the ins discount brought the bill to 10K and change, my portion was 5.6k and change

Hell! 4 days cost 50k?

dyna mo · 04-03-2013, 05:20 PM

i was in er a few weeks ago while in las vegas. the pa comes into the room and says they want/need to do a fancy electro test on my gut, i can't remember which one, anyway, in a state of stupor asked him why they need to do it, he pretty much glared right back at me and said "SO YOU DON'T DIE."

i was like fuck, hmm, ok, how much??? he didn't know and harumphed off to find out, came back after a while and said $3k, i just got the bill, that procedure alone was $9k.

on th ebill it's called a ct abd pelvis w/con $9,162

Robbie · 04-03-2013, 05:42 PM

I'm paying just under $800 a month for me, my wife, and teenage daughter.

I haven't been in the hospital or had any reason to go to the doctor since 2002 when I had a car accident. (didn't have insurance at that time...started having it afterwards lol)

So for 11 years I've been paying for insurance. I did have 4 of us on it...but one of my daughters is grown up and gone.

With 4 of us it was around $600 a month.

Now with "ObamaCare" it has risen the last 3 years to almost $800 a month for the three of us.
That's almost $9,600 per year for insurance.
And of course we have a $3,000 deductible that we have to pay before the insurance pays anything.

So each year...we have to be sick enough to spend 3 grand at the doctor before we see any benefits from putting in $9,600 a year into the insurance companies pockets.

Thank you Pres. Obama, thank you...

Robbie · 04-03-2013, 05:43 PM

Weird double post

tony286 · 04-03-2013, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm paying just under $800 a month for me, my wife, and teenage daughter.

I haven't been in the hospital or had any reason to go to the doctor since 2002 when I had a car accident. (didn't have insurance at that time...started having it afterwards lol)

So for 11 years I've been paying for insurance. I did have 4 of us on it...but one of my daughters is grown up and gone.

With 4 of us it was around $600 a month.

Now with "ObamaCare" it has risen the last 3 years to almost $800 a month for the three of us.
That's almost $9,600 per year for insurance.
And of course we have a $3,000 deductible that we have to pay before the insurance pays anything.

So each year...we have to be sick enough to spend 3 grand at the doctor before we see any benefits from putting in $9,600 a year into the insurance companies pockets.

Thank you Pres. Obama, thank you...

I started paying for my own med ins for my wife and I in 2000. Its gone up every year since I got it. I change plans and deductibles to keep the cost in check but before Obama was twinkle in anyone's eyes. They have raised my rates every year and like yourself in 10 yrs ive been to the doctor maybe 12 times in all those years.Since the president, senate and congress had no balls, we now have this bastardized version of romneycare bullshit. It should of been medicare for all. They were going to be hated anyway should have gone all in.
Also to the guy about the post office, the post office doesn't cost us the tax payer anything.

Robbie · 04-03-2013, 06:11 PM

Tony, I still say we really shouldn't NEED the govt. or insurance.

Insurance should be for "just in case" of a catastrophe.

Our govt. should be stopping the Big Pharma and Big Medical corporations from price gouging us in the US.

Then the majority of us could PAY for our routine doctor visits and prescription medications and only use health insurance for something major (the way it's supposed to work).

Sly · 04-03-2013, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Tony, I still say we really shouldn't NEED the govt. or insurance.

...

Our govt. should be stopping the Big Pharma and Big Medical corporations from price gouging us in the US.

We don't need them, but we need them?

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Richard_

a bunch of corporations own the US government, and everyone is still surprised that every 'do good' legislation gets hacked to corporate welfare pieces?

Exactly. Yet so many direct their anger toward the government, thinking profit-driven corporations are the solution, when it's those profit-driven corporations that are corrupting the government.

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

This is so true. Some medicines are priced so high that most people couldn't afford them without insurance. It is all one big scam. Big Pharm manipulates prices to keep them high forcing people to demand prescription coverage in their insurance which then drives up the cost of the insurance.

Another problem is that there are just too many people between my dollars and my doctor. If I was going to pay a guy $20 to mow my lawn I would hire him, he would mow my lawn and I would hand him cash. There is really nobody between him and my money. If it were run like the healthcare system I would have lawn mowing insurance and pay a monthly premium of $40 then I would hire a guy to mow my lawn, I would give him a $5 co-pay and he would bill my insurance $60. Will all of these people wanting to get paid in between he and I, the price is bound to go up.

Exactly. It's a bloated, overly complex system. Single payer is the answer.

These goddamn HMOs do nothing but handle our money, and decide what they will and won't pay for with it. They raise the premiums because they can, and since profit is their motive they do it frequently. Then people curse Obama for being a "socialist".

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

My mom had to go through this with some depression meds. After trying different things she found a med that worked great. The insurance company would only pay for it if she tried at least two others from a list they provided because they felt these worked just as good and cost lest.

Luckily, she had already tried one on that list so she had to spend 60 days trying another. When it didn't work as well then and only then would they pay for the med her doctor prescribed.

Right. Cuz if they can push your mom onto a lower cost anti-depressant, they make more money. And if she kills herself while they're fucking around with her meds, that works out perfectly - she was a loss for the company anyway. Ain't for-profit healthcare awesome?

Thank goodness we don't have that evil "socialized" medicine.

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

1912: Former President Theodore Roosevelt champions national health insurance as he unsuccessfully tries to ride his progressive Bull Moose Party back to the White House.

1929: Baylor Hospital in Texas originates group health insurance. Dallas teachers pay 50 cents a month to cover up to 21 days of hospital care per year.

1935: President Franklin D. Roosevelt favors creating national health insurance amid the Great Depression but decides to push for Social Security first.

1942: Roosevelt establishes wage and price controls during World War II. Businesses can't attract workers with higher pay so they compete through added benefits, including health insurance, which grows into a workplace perk.

1945: President Harry Truman calls on Congress to create a national insurance program for those who pay voluntary fees. The American Medical Association denounces the idea as "socialized medicine" and it goes nowhere.

1960: John F. Kennedy makes health care a major campaign issue but as president can't get a plan for the elderly through Congress.

1965: President Lyndon B. Johnson's legendary arm-twisting and a Congress dominated by his fellow Democrats lead to creation of two landmark government health programs: Medicare for the elderly and Medicaid for the poor.

1974: President Richard Nixon wants to require employers to cover their workers and create federal subsidies to help everyone else buy private insurance. The Watergate scandal intervenes.

1976: President Jimmy Carter pushes a mandatory national health plan, but economic recession helps push it aside.

1986: President Ronald Reagan signs COBRA, a requirement that employers let former workers stay on the company health plan for 18 months after leaving a job, with workers bearing the cost.

1988: Congress expands Medicare by adding a prescription drug benefit and catastrophic care coverage. It doesn't last long. Barraged by protests from older Americans upset about paying a tax to finance the additional coverage, Congress repeals the law the next year.

1993: President Bill Clinton puts first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton in charge of developing what becomes a 1,300-page plan for universal coverage. It requires businesses to cover their workers and mandates that everyone have health insurance. The plan meets Republican opposition, divides Democrats and comes under a firestorm of lobbying from businesses and the health care industry. It dies in the Senate.

1997: Clinton signs bipartisan legislation creating a state-federal program to provide coverage for millions of children in families of modest means whose incomes are too high to qualify for Medicaid.

2003: President George W. Bush persuades Congress to add prescription drug coverage to Medicare in a major expansion of the program for older people.

2008: Hillary Rodham Clinton promotes a sweeping health care plan in her bid for the Democratic presidential nomination. She loses to Obama, who campaigns on a less comprehensive plan.

2009: Obama and the Democratic-controlled Congress spend an intense year ironing out legislation to mandate that everyone have coverage or pay a fine; require most companies to cover their workers; require insurance companies to accept all comers, regardless of any pre-existing conditions; and assist people who can't afford insurance

2010: The American Medical Association and other big groups of health professionals lend their weight to the effort to extend coverage to more than 30 million uninsured people. Opponents scorn it as "Obamacare" and a government takeover of medicine. With no Republican support, Congress passes the measure. Obama signs it into law on March 23.

2012: The Supreme Court, in a 5-4 ruling, upholds the law, including its much-disputed mandate that almost all people in the U.S. have health coverage or pay a fine. The law's ultimate fate remains unclear, however, with Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney and GOP lawmakers promising to repeal it if they carry the November elections.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501705_1...reform-effort/

What's your point?

Robbie · 04-03-2013, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

We don't need them, but we need them?

You don't understand what I'm saying?

Let me slow down for ya:
We DON'T need the govt. interfering when we go to the doctor.

Everyone was able to pay for it themselves until the govt. started up HMO's and the prices have steadily increased every time they've come up with a new program.

I'm old enough to have seen it happen with my own eyes. Each new govt. involvement that was supposed to make our health care more affordable and "better"....the price has went up and we are told that we are low on the totem pole of countries as far as quality of our medical care is concerned.

How many times do we have to get burnt before we all open our eyes and realize that we're being ripped off?
Or do YOU think that we should continue to have these OUTRAGEOUS price gouging costs that no other country has and be forced to buy health insurance for everything from the common cold to birth control to stubbing your toe?

Robbie · 04-03-2013, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Ain't for-profit healthcare awesome?

GrantMercury...as long as our govt. insists on being the "World Police" and spending so much money on "defense" (OFFENSE is more like it)...we will NEVER be able to pay for "Single Pay" (free) healthcare.

If all those other countries spent money on the military like we do (because of greedy assholes in Washington D.C.) , they wouldn't be able to afford "free" healthcare either.

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I'm paying just under $800 a month for me, my wife, and teenage daughter.

I haven't been in the hospital or had any reason to go to the doctor since 2002 when I had a car accident. (didn't have insurance at that time...started having it afterwards lol)

So for 11 years I've been paying for insurance. I did have 4 of us on it...but one of my daughters is grown up and gone.

With 4 of us it was around $600 a month.

Now with "ObamaCare" it has risen the last 3 years to almost $800 a month for the three of us.
That's almost $9,600 per year for insurance.
And of course we have a $3,000 deductible that we have to pay before the insurance pays anything.

So each year...we have to be sick enough to spend 3 grand at the doctor before we see any benefits from putting in $9,600 a year into the insurance companies pockets.

Thank you Pres. Obama, thank you...

So, are you suggesting Obama isn't left enough, and that he should have found a way to push the for-profit corporations that raise your premiums at will out of the picture? What exactly did you want him to do with our FUBAR system?

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Our govt. should be stopping the Big Pharma and Big Medical corporations from price gouging us in the US.

Commie.

Robbie · 04-03-2013, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

So, are you suggesting Obama isn't left enough, and that he should have found a way to push the for-profit corporations that raise your premiums at will out of the picture? What exactly did you want him to do with our FUBAR system?

Nope, Baby Jesus has no power to do anything. The Congress are the ones who could do it.

Obama's main contribution was having a "behind closed doors" with Big Pharma right off the bat and promising them that he would NOT mess with the Gravy Train.

That was when I first regretted voting for him in 2008...he had promised to reform health care and NOT do anything in secret (matter of fact he promised on the campaign trail to televise the whole process on CSPAN).

L-Pink · 04-03-2013, 06:56 PM

Hey GrantM, forget about defending Obama or blaming the republicans. It's the fault of BOTH parties. Period.

We need a fresh no party line look at a lot of things in this country. Your beloved dem's are as fucked up as the rep's you hate so much. The constant party vs party bullshit allows nothing to get accomplished.

.

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

..Each new govt. involvement that was supposed to make our health care more affordable...(

Or maybe "each new corporate involvement in our government"...

It's the corporations that have worked to bring us to where we are. Health insurance companies (which have healed and cured 0 people), are making a fortune. Their luxurious corporate offices and exorbitant CEO pay will tell you all you need to know. We don't need them. They're parasites.

Robbie · 04-03-2013, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Or maybe "each new corporate involvement in our government"...

It's the corporations that have worked to bring us to where we are. Health insurance companies (which have healed and cured 0 people), are making a fortune. Their luxurious corporate offices and exorbitant CEO pay will tell you all you need to know. We don't need them. They're parasites.

I agree...but it takes TWO to tango. And if the Federal govt. didn't go along with it the corporations would have no power.

At least the corporations have reasons for what they do....the real PARASITES are the govt. sucking off of them and us.

Corporations aren't voted in to office to work on behalf of the people...POLITICIANS are.

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

GrantMercury...as long as our govt. insists on being the "World Police" and spending so much money on "defense" (OFFENSE is more like it)...we will NEVER be able to pay for "Single Pay" (free) healthcare.

If all those other countries spent money on the military like we do (because of greedy assholes in Washington D.C.) , they wouldn't be able to afford "free" healthcare either.

I largely agree. Our military spending is insane. It's mindboggling what we could afford otherwise.

But I disagree that we can't pay for it now. Cuz we're already paying for it. Single payer would not be "free". Just imagine sending your current premium payment to an entity that doesn't need expensive corporate offices, exorbitant executive salaries, advertising, and payouts to shareholders.

Medicare has far lower overhead than BC/BS, Humana, Kaiser Permanente, etc. Let everyone buy in.

kane · 04-03-2013, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Right. Cuz if they can push your mom onto a lower cost anti-depressant, they make more money. And if she kills herself while they're fucking around with her meds, that works out perfectly - she was a loss for the company anyway. Ain't for-profit healthcare awesome?

Thank goodness we don't have that evil "socialized" medicine.

The insurance my mom used to have wouldn't let her get 90 day supplies of her medicine. One day I was talking the pharmacist that she used and asked if he knew why that was. He told me, "It may sound morbid, but the insurance doesn't do it because they don't want her to die 30 days into a 90 day supply. They see it as a waste of money so they only do 30 day supplies.

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Obama's main contribution was having a "behind closed doors" with Big Pharma right off the bat and promising them that he would NOT mess with the Gravy Train.

So, who are you upset with, exactly? Obama? Congress? Avaricious corporations that are always about the bottom line and have no problems manipulating legislation to take in more money?

You don't like the government. You don't like Big Pharma. What do you want? I really don't know.

Robbie · 04-03-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Just imagine sending your current premium payment to an entity that doesn't need expensive corporate offices, exorbitant executive salaries, advertising, and payouts to shareholders.

Medicare has far lower overhead than BC/BS, Humana, Kaiser Permanente, etc. Let everyone buy in.

Maybe you're right...but I think the real way is to STOP THE PRICE GOUGING.

And that's something the Federal Govt. has done in conjunction with the Pharmaceutical and Medical industries.

The Feds could put an end to it now...but they won't.

As I said earlier...none of us should be using "insurance" to pay for everyday doctor visits and picking up a prescription. So premiums shouldn't even be an issue. They should be VERY low because people aren't using it for stubbing their toes.

We're being ripped off by those corporations and the Federal govt. (party affiliation doesn't matter)

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Hey GrantM, forget about defending Obama or blaming the republicans. It's the fault of BOTH parties. Period.

We need a fresh no party line look at a lot of things in this country. Your beloved dem's are as fucked up as the rep's you hate so much. The constant party vs party bullshit allows nothing to get accomplished.
.

Dude, I don't love the Dems, but they suck less than the GOP. A third party won't work. It always splits the vote, and winning elections takes money, so any candidate that doesn't take money can't win.

The parties are not the same, and most of the people who claim they are just want an excuse to tune out.

It's a corrupt system, but it's what we've got. I used to be a Green Party member. I loved their platform. But it's just a pipe dream in this political reality.

My feeling is we need to take charge of the less-shitty party (Dems). Get active, and keep an eye on what your lawmakers are doing, and let them know how you feel. They DO pay attention when their constituents speak up - if enough do it. There IS power in a vote. And a phonecall. And a letter. And a petition. Why is DC so fucked up? Because most people don't pay attention. They don't give a fuck. And that makes lobbyists very happy.

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I agree...but it takes TWO to tango. And if the Federal govt. didn't go along with it the corporations would have no power.

At least the corporations have reasons for what they do....the real PARASITES are the govt. sucking off of them and us.

Corporations aren't voted in to office to work on behalf of the people...POLITICIANS are.

The government sucks off the corporations?

The corporations have purchased our government.

And you're right - the government is supposed to stand up to corporations and prevent them from exploiting the citizens. But that's "socialism" or "communism" or "fascism" or any number of "isms" that morons use when the government simply says "no" to corporate shenanigans. I've head it a million times. "We need to get government outta the way!" as if everything would work out if the corporations had free reign and regulations were all tossed out.

You're right, too, that corporations aren't voted into office. But there's a school of thought that says corporations are "people" and have "rights" to political speech. They think it's a good thing when corporations write big checks to political campaigns.

Robbie · 04-03-2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

They think it's a good thing when corporations write big checks to political campaigns.

Because it's called "FREEDOM".

But my thought on that is...TERM LIMITS. The Congress made sure to impose them on a President. But not on themselves...convenient huh?

And yes...it's the GOVT. that is sucking on the tits of corporations. And when I say "Govt" I mean crooked politicians funneling money back to their cronies.

And they both suck off of US...the people.

GM, without crooked politicians NONE of the corruption can occur. The "Evil" corporations have no power until a politician is a corrupt piece of shit and takes money to do their bidding.

Stop derailing the thread over political nitpicking. The election is over. You "won".

Now let's dust ourselves off and realize we are all still losing and nothing would have changed either way unless we figure a way to get rid of lifetime, parasitic, politicians.

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Maybe you're right...but I think the real way is to STOP THE PRICE GOUGING.

And that's something the Federal Govt. has done in conjunction with the Pharmaceutical and Medical industries.

The Feds could put an end to it now...but they won't.

As I said earlier...none of us should be using "insurance" to pay for everyday doctor visits and picking up a prescription. So premiums shouldn't even be an issue. They should be VERY low because people aren't using it for stubbing their toes.

We're being ripped off by those corporations and the Federal govt. (party affiliation doesn't matter)

Actually I know many people who never use their insurance because that little stuff either isn't covered, or they have a bridge or deductible so large it's not worth it.

A friend of mine had been paying $600/month for his insurance every month. He did so for years. One afternoon, he felt a tightness in his chest, and vertigo set in. He asked a friend to drive him to the ER. They admitted him overnight and did a battery of tests. They never pinpointed the cause, and they released him the next day. The bill was $12,000. The insurance bastards kicked in $4,000 and he was on the hook for the rest.

So don't assume that these bastards will cover you even in a catastrophic situation. Most of the people who go bankrupt from medical bills HAD insurance.

Insured, but Bankrupted Anyway
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.c...rupted-anyway/

Their primary concern is their profits - not your health. And that's a dangerous thing.

It's an evil system.

As an aside, another benefit of Obamacare is the elimination of lifetime caps, so there will be fewer bankruptcies.

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Because it's called "FREEDOM".

For fucking WHO????

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

And yes...it's the GOVT. that is sucking on the tits of corporations.

Yeah, with those subsidies and 0% tax rates...

GrantMercury · 04-03-2013, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Stop derailing the thread over political nitpicking. The election is over. You "won".

I'm just asking questions. You don't like politicians taking money from corporations, yet you call it FREEDOM.

So is it a good thing, or a bad thing?

Just asking.

Robbie · 04-04-2013, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

I'm just asking questions. You don't like politicians taking money from corporations, yet you call it FREEDOM.

So is it a good thing, or a bad thing?

Just asking.

Freedom is a good thing. And a corporation shouldn't be censored in a FREE country.

The politicians taking the money are not the little angels you are kinda insinuating. Hell, they get into politics in the first place with full knowledge that they can leverage their power for money.

That's why I said the politicians are the parasites.

Now stop worrying about what my answers to this are and start thinking about the FACT that you, me, and everybody in the United States is being ripped off by these con artist/lifetime politicians.

davecummings · 04-04-2013, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6South

It really amazes me the number of people online these days talking about how we need a "revolution" in America.

No, we don't need to resort to violence, we just need to stop voting like idiots. A new party with a signed platform to reform campaigns, put term limits in for all govt offices, etc would address a lot of this "for profit" public service.

We could take the post office and turn it over to Fed Ex then take the tens of billions we save and use it to give every American the federal health insurance program. I don't see any politicians suggesting this, however.

I wonder if impeachments involving both parties, and term limits for ALL elected and/or politically appointed offices (perhaps even including the highest court in the land?), and tighter restrictions on access by lobbyists and a re-do of rules concerning all aspects of election funding, will start finding traction relatively soon?!

Think it might help ????

GrantMercury · 04-04-2013, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Freedom is a good thing. And a corporation shouldn't be censored in a FREE country.

JFC. CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! They don't HAVE voices! They are legal constructs! You've been brainwashed! Wake up from the nightmare!

You complain that corporations are in cahoots with government...then you say it's "freedom." They've got you thoroughly confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The politicians taking the money are not the little angels you are kinda insinuating.

??? I insinuated politicians are "little angels?" Dude, you know you're talking shit.

GrantMercury · 04-04-2013, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecummings

I wonder if impeachments involving both parties, and term limits for ALL elected and/or politically appointed offices (perhaps even including the highest court in the land?), and tighter restrictions on access by lobbyists and a re-do of rules concerning all aspects of election funding, will start finding traction relatively soon?!

Think it might help ????

It would largely solve our problems, IMO. How to do it, when the powers that be enjoy the status quo, is another question entirely. That doesn't me we don't try, of course.

Robbie · 04-04-2013, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

JFC. CORPORATIONS AREN'T PEOPLE! They don't HAVE voices! They are legal constructs! You've been brainwashed! Wake up from the nightmare!

You complain that corporations are in cahoots with government...then you say it's "freedom." They've got you thoroughly confused.

GrantMercury...FREEDOM is not censoring corporations (which yes...are just people, the CEO's of corporations are not magical, they are just people). I have my own corporation, just like most people on here who own their own companies do. And if I want to hire a lobbyist to petition my local, state, or federal govt. on behalf of laws or regulations that would benefit me then I should be FREE to do so.

The problem is when the POLITICIANS refuse to play ball unless you grease their palms.

Corruption like that is rampant at all levels of govt.

I'm not sure if you have much experience in the real world, but anybody who owns a brick and mortar business can tell you that what I'm saying is true.

For decades people just accepted it as a "cost of business" to pay off city hall, county commisioners, inspectors, etc.

You are the one who needs to wake up and see how things really work.

The evil corporations are just people running companies trying to survive and make money.

The politicians on the other hand create...NOTHING. All they do is use their power to squeeze money out of corporations.

I know you won't listen because you don't seem to have any knowledge of how things work. But just do this...
You've been to a strip club before right?
Or have you ever been to a used car dealership?
How about a "regular" bar (not a strip club, just a bar)
Have you ever had a building constructed on property you own?
Have you ever owned a piece of business zoned property in city limits?

If you have ANY experience in those things (and a million more that I"m not listing), then you would KNOW that the local govt.'s are on the take. You wouldn't be the "evil" one using money to influence them, that's not how it works. They come to YOU with their hand out. And if you don't pony up...you're shit gets shut down.

Your whole attitude seems to be that of a sheep who loves govt and blindly follows along.

Hell, you've already completely derailed this thread about Obama Care and the FACT that health care costs and health insurance premiums are going UP instead of down.
The more govt. involvement...the more expensive it's getting.

But rail on brother. You seem to know everything...with absolutely no real world experience to back it up. Just your theories of how stuff would work in the land of unicorns and rainbows.

Houdini · 04-05-2013, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Actually I know many people who never use their insurance because that little stuff either isn't covered, or they have a bridge or deductible so large it's not worth it.

A friend of mine had been paying $600/month for his insurance every month. He did so for years. One afternoon, he felt a tightness in his chest, and vertigo set in. He asked a friend to drive him to the ER. They admitted him overnight and did a battery of tests. They never pinpointed the cause, and they released him the next day. The bill was $12,000. The insurance bastards kicked in $4,000 and he was on the hook for the rest.

So don't assume that these bastards will cover you even in a catastrophic situation. Most of the people who go bankrupt from medical bills HAD insurance.

Insured, but Bankrupted Anyway
http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.c...rupted-anyway/

Their primary concern is their profits - not your health. And that's a dangerous thing.

It's an evil system.

As an aside, another benefit of Obamacare is the elimination of lifetime caps, so there will be fewer bankruptcies.

Does your friend have a medical condition? If not, he has shitty coverage. Paying $600 a month, should easily buy you 80% coverage.

GrantMercury · 04-06-2013, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houdini

Does your friend have a medical condition? If not, he has shitty coverage. Paying $600 a month, should easily buy you 80% coverage.

Yes, he has a medical condition. And he's 55. And he (obviously) had shitty coverage.

The motherfuckers took his premium every month and then left him high & dry. But that's how they make money.

Vendzilla · 04-06-2013, 07:48 PM

I've been against Obamacare since they started it
It has grown to 20,000 pages in regulations

Anyone that thought this would work, well, I told you so

GrantMercury · 04-06-2013, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

GrantMercury...FREEDOM is not censoring corporations (which yes...are just people, the CEO's of corporations are not magical, they are just people).

A CEO is a person. A corporation is not. A corporation is a legal construct - not a person. Corporations can't go to jail. They can't get the death penalty. They don't get cancer. They don't have kids.

The great Bernie Sanders (I - VT) lays it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

...if I want to hire a lobbyist to petition my local, state, or federal govt. on behalf of laws or regulations that would benefit me then I should be FREE to do so.

But wouldn't that mean those rich enough to hire a lobbyist would have more influence in Washington? You're in luck - that's what we have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The problem is when the POLITICIANS refuse to play ball unless you grease their palms.

And those who do the greasing are THRILLED to do it. The returns on that investment are extraordinary. They love the system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

The evil corporations are just people running companies trying to survive and make money.

Yeah, the Koch Brothers are just scraping by.

The government is forcing them to dump $200 million into our elections.

http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/20...2-election.php

Sheldon Adelson, too, is being extorted.

Quote:

?He?s fully committed to beating Barack Obama,? said Fred S. Zeidman, a Texas energy executive and a friend of Mr. Adelson?s. ?We think ?$100 million, wow!? But it?s a meaningless amount of money to him.?

The unusually heavy flow of money has drawn concern not just from liberals and government watchdog groups, but even from some Republicans.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/us...oups.html?_r=0

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Your whole attitude seems to be that of a sheep who loves govt and blindly follows along.

My whole attitude is that we need to keep thinking, asking questions, and working toward a better society. Government can do good or bad. Corporations can do good or bad. What's bad is that our current political system is swollen with cash. Or freedom.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

Hell, you've already completely derailed this thread...

I think you derailed it.

PornoMonster · 04-06-2013, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantMercury

Yes, he has a medical condition. And he's 55. And he (obviously) had shitty coverage.

The motherfuckers took his premium every month and then left him high & dry. But that's how they make money.

If you think Obama Care is going to be different you are blind.

baddog · 04-07-2013, 09:04 AM

Not going to get it.

Robbie · 04-07-2013, 10:12 AM

I guess the REAL bottom line is this:

The President promised that it would not add "one dime" to the deficit, and that it would lower the cost of "health care" (which was a lie from the beginning since it never addressed "health care" only health insurance).

Now the CBO has revised the numbers UP for the third straight year in a row for Obama Care and we are looking at around 2 TRILLION dollars it will cost the govt. alone. (and that number will probably rise again next year)

And, as I said earlier...even MSNBC was forced to report the truth: insurance premiums are UP and are gonna go up a LOT further within the next year!

So grading "ObamaCare" by what the President said AND the actual reason for it to exist (lower costs for health care and insurance)...then it is a complete and utter total failure. (unless you work for Big Pharma, Big Medical, or Big Insurance)

dyna mo · 04-07-2013, 10:18 AM

i've been rethinking my frustration on this.

the fact is, with a pre-existing condition, i look forward to finally having full medical coverage, i really do.

i will know more in october- just a few months away and that's the 1st i can apply for coverage beginning jan.1 2014.

i plan to go with one of the major carriers.

Robbie · 04-07-2013, 10:37 AM

dyna mo I hope you are able to get covered.
BUT the question is...will you be able to afford that coverage?

I would think that there is really no logical way for an insurance company to cover people with pre-existing conditions at a cheap rate and still be able to turn a profit.

I'm thinking that all the folks with pre-existing conditions and especially those with life threatening cost intensive ones...are going to end up with HUGE premiums and very little coverage.

I'm thinking people are going to start being bankrupted by the insurance bill now instead of the medical bill.

This whole thing would have been a lot different if we actually had politicians that gave a fuck instead of the ones we have who are lining their pockets.

"ObamaCare" SHOULD have been all about opening investigations into why health care in the United States is price gouged and costs many times over what the same exact procedures and medication cost anywhere else in the world.

Instead...Obama lied about everything to do with it: From how he was going to be transparent with the whole process (he claimed it would be broadcast on CSPAN, instead it was all behind closed doors) to how much it would cost.

Total and complete shameless ripoff of the American people.

04-03-2013, 04:37 PM	#51
6South Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 84	It really amazes me the number of people online these days talking about how we need a "revolution" in America. No, we don't need to resort to violence, we just need to stop voting like idiots. A new party with a signed platform to reform campaigns, put term limits in for all govt offices, etc would address a lot of this "for profit" public service. We could take the post office and turn it over to Fed Ex then take the tens of billions we save and use it to give every American the federal health insurance program. I don't see any politicians suggesting this, however. __________________ -= Software / Systems Architect and Server Geek =-

04-03-2013, 05:42 PM	#59
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	I'm paying just under $800 a month for me, my wife, and teenage daughter. I haven't been in the hospital or had any reason to go to the doctor since 2002 when I had a car accident. (didn't have insurance at that time...started having it afterwards lol) So for 11 years I've been paying for insurance. I did have 4 of us on it...but one of my daughters is grown up and gone. With 4 of us it was around $600 a month. Now with "ObamaCare" it has risen the last 3 years to almost $800 a month for the three of us. That's almost $9,600 per year for insurance. And of course we have a $3,000 deductible that we have to pay before the insurance pays anything. So each year...we have to be sick enough to spend 3 grand at the doctor before we see any benefits from putting in $9,600 a year into the insurance companies pockets. Thank you Pres. Obama, thank you... __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

04-03-2013, 05:43 PM	#60
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	Weird double post __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

04-03-2013, 06:11 PM	#62
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	Tony, I still say we really shouldn't NEED the govt. or insurance. Insurance should be for "just in case" of a catastrophe. Our govt. should be stopping the Big Pharma and Big Medical corporations from price gouging us in the US. Then the majority of us could PAY for our routine doctor visits and prescription medications and only use health insurance for something major (the way it's supposed to work). __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com

04-06-2013, 07:48 PM	#94
Vendzilla Biker Gnome Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: cell#324 Posts: 23,200	I've been against Obamacare since they started it It has grown to 20,000 pages in regulations Anyone that thought this would work, well, I told you so __________________ Webair died? Carbon is not the problem, it makes up 0.041% of our atmosphere , 95% of that is from Volcanos and decomposing plants and stuff. So people in the US are responsible for 13% of the carbon in the atmosphere which 95% is not from Humans, like cars and trucks and stuff and they want to spend trillions to fix it while Solar Panel plants are powered by coal plants think about that

04-03-2013, 05:20 PM	#58
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 63,963	i was in er a few weeks ago while in las vegas. the pa comes into the room and says they want/need to do a fancy electro test on my gut, i can't remember which one, anyway, in a state of stupor asked him why they need to do it, he pretty much glared right back at me and said "SO YOU DON'T DIE." i was like fuck, hmm, ok, how much??? he didn't know and harumphed off to find out, came back after a while and said $3k, i just got the bill, that procedure alone was $9k. on th ebill it's called a ct abd pelvis w/con $9,162

04-03-2013, 06:56 PM	#73
L-Pink working on my tan Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Florida/Kentucky Posts: 39,151	Hey GrantM, forget about defending Obama or blaming the republicans. It's the fault of BOTH parties. Period. We need a fresh no party line look at a lot of things in this country. Your beloved dem's are as fucked up as the rep's you hate so much. The constant party vs party bullshit allows nothing to get accomplished. .

04-07-2013, 09:04 AM	#97
baddog So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: the beach, SoCal Posts: 107,089	Not going to get it.

04-07-2013, 10:12 AM	#98
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	I guess the REAL bottom line is this: The President promised that it would not add "one dime" to the deficit, and that it would lower the cost of "health care" (which was a lie from the beginning since it never addressed "health care" only health insurance). Now the CBO has revised the numbers UP for the third straight year in a row for Obama Care and we are looking at around 2 TRILLION dollars it will cost the govt. alone. (and that number will probably rise again next year) And, as I said earlier...even MSNBC was forced to report the truth: insurance premiums are UP and are gonna go up a LOT further within the next year! So grading "ObamaCare" by what the President said AND the actual reason for it to exist (lower costs for health care and insurance)...then it is a complete and utter total failure. (unless you work for Big Pharma, Big Medical, or Big Insurance) __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com Last edited by Robbie; 04-07-2013 at 10:14 AM..

04-07-2013, 10:18 AM	#99
dyna mo The People's Post Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: invisible 7-11 Posts: 63,963	i've been rethinking my frustration on this. the fact is, with a pre-existing condition, i look forward to finally having full medical coverage, i really do. i will know more in october- just a few months away and that's the 1st i can apply for coverage beginning jan.1 2014. i plan to go with one of the major carriers.

04-07-2013, 10:37 AM	#100
Robbie Leaner, Meaner, Faster Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Vegas Posts: 20,958	dyna mo I hope you are able to get covered. BUT the question is...will you be able to afford that coverage? I would think that there is really no logical way for an insurance company to cover people with pre-existing conditions at a cheap rate and still be able to turn a profit. I'm thinking that all the folks with pre-existing conditions and especially those with life threatening cost intensive ones...are going to end up with HUGE premiums and very little coverage. I'm thinking people are going to start being bankrupted by the insurance bill now instead of the medical bill. This whole thing would have been a lot different if we actually had politicians that gave a fuck instead of the ones we have who are lining their pockets. "ObamaCare" SHOULD have been all about opening investigations into why health care in the United States is price gouged and costs many times over what the same exact procedures and medication cost anywhere else in the world. Instead...Obama lied about everything to do with it: From how he was going to be transparent with the whole process (he claimed it would be broadcast on CSPAN, instead it was all behind closed doors) to how much it would cost. Total and complete shameless ripoff of the American people. __________________ -Robbie ClaudiaMarie.Com