why is asking for ID racism?

[Grapesoda]

this is the weirdest fucking thing I've heard in some time.... asking some clown to pull out his ID is racism?

"Democrats argue that the laws are intended to keep poor voters away from the polls because they often have difficulty obtaining identification"

-- well how the fuck do they get Medicare, food stamps, HUD housing? without some prof of identity?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/10/us...w&rref=us&_r=0

[arock10]

The only intent of voter ID laws are to suppress the votes of people who primarily vote democratic. There is almost 0 in person voter fraud.

[slapass]

Because minorities are less likely to have an ID. Poor people are less likely to have car so no driver's license. State ID's can be expensive. Police often take ID's and destroy them or throw them away to hassle people. Minorities have more contact with police.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by slapass

Because minorities are less likely to have an ID. Poor people are less likely to have car so no driver's license. State ID's can be expensive. Police often take ID's and destroy them or throw them away to hassle people. Minorities have more contact with police.

you are fucking trippin! if you are on welfare they will make sure you get i.d. illegals have been doing this since sb 1070 and plain i.d. is half or more than a drivers

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

you are fucking trippin! if you are on welfare they will make sure you get i.d. illegals have been doing this since sb 1070 and plain i.d. is half or more than a drivers

seriously..... right?

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by arock10

The only intent of voter ID laws are to suppress the votes of people who primarily vote democratic. There is almost 0 in person voter fraud.

the amazing 'kreskin arock10'... now if you would just skip over the model east, read all their minds and sort those issues out we would be appreciative

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

the amazing 'kreskin arock10'... now if you would just skip over the model east, read all their minds and sort those issues out we would be appreciative

What. .

[Robbie]

It's one of the weirdest things I've EVER heard.

The only people in the United States without some form of ID are homeless bums with mental issues.

You HAVE to have an ID for everything you do. You can't rent an apt. without an ID.
You can't even live in a govt. subsidized (welfare) home without ID.
You can't have electricity without an ID.
You can't have a bank account without an ID.
You can't get a job without an ID.

As for "voter fraud" being "non-existent".
Uhmmm, that's because YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOW ID, so therefore they have no idea if it's happening or not.

They try to make sure it doesn't. But if everyone voting had to show some form of ID, then it would ensure the integrity of the vote.

As for arock10 and other people who share the opinion that "minorities" don't have ID and their vote would be "suppressed":
I'd say that you are perpetuating the idea that somehow minorities are too stupid and/or weak to be able to do the simplest things.

And as I already pointed out...they DO have ID anyway.

To me that whole argument against showing ID because it is unfair to the poor, stupid minorites is: racist.

You're basically saying that other races (minorities) are inferior and unable to do the simplest and most basic things (like getting an ID).

I think that minorities (citizens, not the Democrat Party shills on t.v.) would tell you to "fuck off", they are NOT stupid and DO have ID.

[L-Pink]

Who doesn't have id? Someone without a drivers license, bank or checking account, government aid, a library card, gas/electric. Did I miss anything?

edit: Never mind Robbie covered it better above.


.

[dyna mo]

[SmutHammer]

In a lot of states if your an adult it's the law for you to have an ID and carry it on you.

[Sunny Day]

Former Speaker of the US House of Representatives had trouble getting a voter card as he had no ID, was 90+ so he no longer drove
A lot of senior citizens in the same boat

http://www.usatoday.com/story/onpoli...eaker/3422047/

A lot of senior citizens in the same boat -11% of all US adults without ID

http://www.aarp.org/politics-society...americans.html

[slapass]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

you are fucking trippin! if you are on welfare they will make sure you get i.d. illegals have been doing this since sb 1070 and plain i.d. is half or more than a drivers

You are confusing minority with the stereotype of an innercity black welfare mother. I understand why but the picture is a bit bigger.

[brassmonkey]

Originally Posted by Robbie

It's one of the weirdest things I've EVER heard.

The only people in the United States without some form of ID are homeless bums with mental issues.

You HAVE to have an ID for everything you do. You can't rent an apt. without an ID.
You can't even live in a govt. subsidized (welfare) home without ID.
You can't have electricity without an ID.
You can't have a bank account without an ID.
You can't get a job without an ID.

As for "voter fraud" being "non-existent".
Uhmmm, that's because YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOW ID, so therefore they have no idea if it's happening or not.

They try to make sure it doesn't. But if everyone voting had to show some form of ID, then it would ensure the integrity of the vote.

As for arock10 and other people who share the opinion that "minorities" don't have ID and their vote would be "suppressed":
I'd say that you are perpetuating the idea that somehow minorities are too stupid and/or weak to be able to do the simplest things.

And as I already pointed out...they DO have ID anyway.

To me that whole argument against showing ID because it is unfair to the poor, stupid minorites is: racist.

You're basically saying that other races (minorities) are inferior and unable to do the simplest and most basic things (like getting an ID).

I think that minorities (citizens, not the Democrat Party shills on t.v.) would tell you to "fuck off", they are NOT stupid and DO have ID.

its not about that. they are trying to make a way for illegals to vote!

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by brassmonkey

its not about that. they are trying to make a way for illegals to vote!

Yeah, I agree. And they are using the "minority/racist" card in order to do it.

Not wanting to start any big political fight. But the only party that would benefit from illegal's voting would be the party that offers all the social welfare "goodies".

And that's why that party's political pundits are pushing so hard against it. And it's the reason that the other party is pushing for it.

Neither side really gives a damn about "fairness" in the elections. If they did, they would remove all the restrictions that make it almost impossible for a third party candidate to get on the ballot and/or get elected.

It's all about their own power on both sides. Reality is...we should have to show ID.

The ultimate hypocrisy is that Democrats said that forcing people to show ID is "racist"...
while at the same time you could NOT get into the Democrat Party Convention without: showing your ID.
How fucking "racist" of them.

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Robbie

It's one of the weirdest things I've EVER heard.

The only people in the United States without some form of ID are homeless bums with mental issues.

You HAVE to have an ID for everything you do. You can't rent an apt. without an ID.
You can't even live in a govt. subsidized (welfare) home without ID.
You can't have electricity without an ID.
You can't have a bank account without an ID.
You can't get a job without an ID.

As for "voter fraud" being "non-existent".
Uhmmm, that's because YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHOW ID, so therefore they have no idea if it's happening or not.

They try to make sure it doesn't. But if everyone voting had to show some form of ID, then it would ensure the integrity of the vote.

As for arock10 and other people who share the opinion that "minorities" don't have ID and their vote would be "suppressed":
I'd say that you are perpetuating the idea that somehow minorities are too stupid and/or weak to be able to do the simplest things.

And as I already pointed out...they DO have ID anyway.

To me that whole argument against showing ID because it is unfair to the poor, stupid minorites is: racist.

You're basically saying that other races (minorities) are inferior and unable to do the simplest and most basic things (like getting an ID).

I think that minorities (citizens, not the Democrat Party shills on t.v.) would tell you to "fuck off", they are NOT stupid and DO have ID.

Yea just like everyone working at mcdonalds is 16. Just cause you see it or think it doesn't mean it's actually true

[slapass]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Yeah, I agree. And they are using the "minority/racist" card in order to do it.

Not wanting to start any big political fight. But the only party that would benefit from illegal's voting would be the party that offers all the social welfare "goodies".

And that's why that party's political pundits are pushing so hard against it. And it's the reason that the other party is pushing for it.

Neither side really gives a damn about "fairness" in the elections. If they did, they would remove all the restrictions that make it almost impossible for a third party candidate to get on the ballot and/or get elected.

It's all about their own power on both sides. Reality is...we should have to show ID.

The ultimate hypocrisy is that Democrats said that forcing people to show ID is "racist"...
while at the same time you could NOT get into the Democrat Party Convention without: showing your ID.
How fucking "racist" of them.

I would agree with this.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by arock10

Yea just like everyone working at mcdonalds is 16. Just cause you see it or think it doesn't mean it's actually true

No, because I'm smart and worldy and have a mind to think for myself..that's what makes it true.

You should try that sometime in political discussion.

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Click HERE for full-size graphic

Voter suppression -- also known as caging -- is any action or behavior intended to deter an individual or group from voting.

In the history of American politics, a wide range of dirty tactics have been used by both major political parties to intimidate or disqualify voters traditionally aligned with the opposition.

During the "Jim Crow" era in the southern U.S., state and county governments evaded the 15th Amendment -- prohibiting voter discrimination based on race or color -- -- by imposing a series of literacy tests, poll taxes and even thuggish "poll workers" to block African-American voters from casting a ballot.

Modern methods of voter suppression are more subtle, but the intention is the same: to employ legal and illegal means to affect voter turnout in an election.

Critics of the new voter ID laws are crying foul, accusing the states of imposing a solution in search of a problem, citing Justice Department statistics that voter fraud is extremely rare: 86 convictions out of 300 million votes cast in recent elections [source: Berman].

The real reason for the rash of new voter ID laws, critics argue, is that certain Democratic-leaning voters -- African- and Hispanic-Americans, students, the elderly and the disabled -- are less likely to possess a valid government-issued ID [source:American Civil Liberties Union]. Strict voter identification laws, they say, have the intended effect of discouraging or disqualifying traditionally Democratic voters.

Disinformation is another hugely popular tactic for suppressing votes in a target population. In the 2008 elections, Democrats in Nevada received robo-calls informing them that they could vote on November 5 -- a day after the election -- to avoid long lines.

Hispanic voters in Nevada received similar messages saying that they could vote by phone [source: Freeman].

Voters in Lake County, Ohio, received official-looking mail stating that voters who had registered to vote through Democratic-leaning organizations would barred from the 2008 election. And Michigan's Secretary of State had to fight a phone-based disinformation campaign telling absentee voters to mail their ballots to the wrong address [source: Zernike].

While intimidation and disinformation are recognized examples of voter suppression, other methods are much more controversial. A strict voter ID law in Indiana, for example, has the blessing of the Supreme Court, yet the Justice Department has moved to block similar laws in Texas and South Carolina under accusations that the laws "[deny] or [abridge] the right to vote on account of race, color or membership in a language minority group" [source: Chebium].

Similarly, a number of Republican-controlled state legislatures have passed laws barring convicted felons ? even those who have served their time ? from ever voting again. Other states have tightened the window for absentee, overseas and early voting, and banned same-day voter registration.

Some states want to require voters to provide a proof of citizenship. Groups like the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) claim these laws have one purpose: to restrict and suppress the ability of minority, disabled and elderly voters from casting their vote [source:American Civil Liberties Union]. Supporters of these laws argue that increased restrictions only result in fairer, cleaner elections.

ADG

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Robbie

No, because I'm smart and worldy and have a mind to think for myself..that's what makes it true.

You should try that sometime in political discussion.

Sorry I just stick to the facts, I don't just think stuff up and say its true because it makes sense to me.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by arock10

Sorry I just stick to the facts, I don't just think stuff up and say its true because it makes sense to me.

How Widespread is Voter Fraud? | 2012 Facts & Figures


Here are the facts:
? To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud.
? More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.
? There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country.
? More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.
? True The Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud.
? Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people registering and voting after their respective deaths.
? This year, True The Vote uncovered more than 348,000 dead people on the rolls in 27 states. ◦ California: 49,000
◦ Florida: 30,000
◦ Texas: 28,500
◦ Michigan: 25,000
◦ Illinois: 24,000

? 12 Indiana counties have more registered voters than residents.
? The Ohio Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered voters than residents.
? Federal records showed 160 counties in 19 states have over 100 percent voter registration.
? The Florida New Majority Education Fund, Democratic Party of Florida and the National Council of La Raza are currently under investigation for alleged voter registration fraud.
? True The Vote is Chuck Norris approved.

How popular is Voter ID?
? 74 percent of Americans support, according to The Washington Post.
? 71 percent of Latinos support it, according to the PEW Research Center

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-...-facts-figures

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Click HERE for full-size graphic








ADG

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

True the Vote...







ADG

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

How Widespread is Voter Fraud? | 2012 Facts & Figures


Here are the facts:
? To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud.
? More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.
? There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country.
? More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.
? True The Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud.
? Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people registering and voting after their respective deaths.
? This year, True The Vote uncovered more than 348,000 dead people on the rolls in 27 states. ◦ California: 49,000
◦ Florida: 30,000
◦ Texas: 28,500
◦ Michigan: 25,000
◦ Illinois: 24,000

? 12 Indiana counties have more registered voters than residents.
? The Ohio Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered voters than residents.
? Federal records showed 160 counties in 19 states have over 100 percent voter registration.
? The Florida New Majority Education Fund, Democratic Party of Florida and the National Council of La Raza are currently under investigation for alleged voter registration fraud.
? True The Vote is Chuck Norris approved.

How popular is Voter ID?
? 74 percent of Americans support, according to The Washington Post.
? 71 percent of Latinos support it, according to the PEW Research Center

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-...-facts-figures

I was skeptical till I saw Chuck Norris supported it

Lots of stats there, but the only one I saw that meant anything was the whole "99 cases of POTENTIAL voter fraud". Out of hundreds a of millions. This is a non issue merely here to cut down on democratic votes.

[mineistaken]

Another Democrat party foolish appearance.

[woj]

Originally Posted by arock10

I was skeptical till I saw Chuck Norris supported it

Lots of stats there, but the only one I saw that meant anything was the whole "99 cases of POTENTIAL voter fraud". Out of hundreds a of millions. This is a non issue merely here to cut down on democratic votes.

there are very few cases because voter fraud is probably difficult to prove... and it has a "victimless crime" feel to it, so there is very little motivation and many political obstacles to try to chase down these vote fraud-sters...

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

Don't vote, it only encourages them...



ADG

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Don't vote, it only encourages them...



ADG

man you guys are really and truly fucked.... the world is against you right? every fact is lie made up by the 'republicans/tea party'? no democrat would ever lie or distort facts? pres Obama has done nothing wrong even though members of his administration are 'taking the 5th' and Holden tells everybody to mind their own business... Obama care is the very best thing in the world even though congress made themselves exempt, in fact Obama made himself exempt.. ... keep using drugs bro... you'll get it sorted out

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by arock10

I was skeptical till I saw Chuck Norris supported it

Lots of stats there, but the only one I saw that meant anything was the whole "99 cases of POTENTIAL voter fraud". Out of hundreds a of millions. This is a non issue merely here to cut down on democratic votes.

here's how the world shakes out for you I guess.. about 10 years ago there was a big case of voter fraud in orange county with illegal Vietnamese voting in local elections... HOWEVER the investigation was halted because ... well people like you..... demanded that the investigation be stopped BECAUSE it was targeting minorities... sorta like looking for explosives in the USA via 'unconventional methods' was spotlighted for targeting Muslims... for....

[crockett]

I can't keep up.. In one topic people are complaining that
Obama wants to create a internet ID, then in this topic the same people are complaining we don't have a voter ID..

Hey I have an idea... Lets just put chips in everyone's arm or give them bar code tattoos so we can just get it all over with.

Has anyone ever worked at a bar? Umm fake ID's are pretty fucking easy to get.. If someone is determined to vote more than once, checking a drivers license is not going to stop them.

Lets not even mention the biggest reason there is no mandatory voter ID but rather a voting card is to allow anonymous voting to keep voter intimidation from happening..

Also how is checking someone's ID going to stop them from using the exact same ID with a forged voters ID card at another polling both? Do you guys that support checking ID's also support collecting everyone's information into a data base? In that case how do you plan to weed out duplicate names?

Should we just expand govt some more? How we going to pay for it raise taxes?

[woj]

Why do you all think it's some conspiracy, some scheme designed to "steal elections"?

It sounds like it's common sense... right now some Chinese tourist could very easily vote, as could some 16 year old kid, as could some illegal immigrant who just ran across the border 2 days earlier, etc...

isn't that ridiculous that something like that could happen easily with no fake ids, no hoop jumping at all, etc?

[Rochard]

I see no issues with having to show your ID to vote. Sounds like common sense to me.

Then again, here in California police are no longer allowed to ask for your insurance papers when you pulled over because it's an invasion of privacy.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by woj

It sounds like it's common sense...

Originally Posted by Rochard

I see no issues with having to show your ID to vote. Sounds like common sense to me.

Of course, just some people are stupid..

[slapass]

Originally Posted by Grapesoda

How Widespread is Voter Fraud? | 2012 Facts & Figures


Here are the facts:
? To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud.
? More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.
? There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country.
? More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.
? True The Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud.
? Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people registering and voting after their respective deaths.
? This year, True The Vote uncovered more than 348,000 dead people on the rolls in 27 states. ◦ California: 49,000
◦ Florida: 30,000
◦ Texas: 28,500
◦ Michigan: 25,000
◦ Illinois: 24,000

? 12 Indiana counties have more registered voters than residents.
? The Ohio Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered voters than residents.
? Federal records showed 160 counties in 19 states have over 100 percent voter registration.
? The Florida New Majority Education Fund, Democratic Party of Florida and the National Council of La Raza are currently under investigation for alleged voter registration fraud.
? True The Vote is Chuck Norris approved.

How popular is Voter ID?
? 74 percent of Americans support, according to The Washington Post.
? 71 percent of Latinos support it, according to the PEW Research Center

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-...-facts-figures

Didn't you just prove the point that voter fraud doesn't exist? 4 states didn't find one case to prosecute.

[slapass]

Originally Posted by woj

Why do you all think it's some conspiracy, some scheme designed to "steal elections"?

It sounds like it's common sense... right now some Chinese tourist could very easily vote, as could some 16 year old kid, as could some illegal immigrant who just ran across the border 2 days earlier, etc...

isn't that ridiculous that something like that could happen easily with no fake ids, no hoop jumping at all, etc?

Those examples are likely to vote Democrat. In MN you need to show some ID, proof of residence or a neighbor so it is not like they just let anyone vote. The democrats need to let this one go. the elderly are probably more likely to be Republican so in all honesty it is probably a push versus a done deal. The real person who couch surfs and works construction with no driver's license is also unlikely to vote so no one really looses the "homeless".

I do find it odd that Republicans are on the side of more Govt involvement and registration and Democrats are trying to keep them out of our business. Politics makes strange bedfelllows.

[mineistaken]

Not sure why some of you talk about "there is no vote fraud NOW" so it is all good. There is no fraud because you have to provide and ID. There would be if you had not. So not sure what advocates are trying to prove with that "there is no fraud" argument.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by woj

Why do you all think it's some conspiracy, some scheme designed to "steal elections"?

It sounds like it's common sense... right now some Chinese tourist could very easily vote, as could some 16 year old kid, as could some illegal immigrant who just ran across the border 2 days earlier, etc...

isn't that ridiculous that something like that could happen easily with no fake ids, no hoop jumping at all, etc?

No a Chinese Tourist couldn't vote.. You still have to have a voters ID card and if you don't have one, then you have to vote on a provisional ballet which in a presidential election is not even counted until well after the winner is announced. They then match the names from the provisional ballot to the voters registry. Meaning it would do nothing but drag out the election process.

This whole deal is a non issue as showing a ID will not really solve anything. So if they don't have a ID and they claim they have the right to vote, then guess what.. They still vote on a provisional ballot just like if they didn't have a voter id card.

Meaning showing a ID does absolutely nothing, but create more provisional ballots.

I have no real issue with showing a ID, but a drivers licence doesn't cut it, because it doesn't change anything. The only way to fix anything is have a actual real voter registration ID.

The only way to do that is to create even more government and spend even more money. The only sensible way to do it would be to make a social security/voters ID.

The whole drivers license non sense is just a waste of time and would change nothing, but hey it lets republicans bitch and moan and still not solve anything. Which is pretty much all they ever do.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by arock10

Sorry I just stick to the facts, I don't just think stuff up and say its true because it makes sense to me.

What facts? What the fuck are you talking about.

That's why I hate talking to some of you. YOU are repeating made-up shit you hear or read and stating it as "fact"

Well why don't you tell me your facts with this question:
How many legitimate adult citizens in the United States do NOT have any kind of ID.

Tell me.

I'll be waiting for you facts.

Fucking dumbest shit I've ever head someone say to me.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Robbie

What facts? What the fuck are you talking about.

That's why I hate talking to some of you. YOU are repeating made-up shit you hear or read and stating it as "fact"

Well why don't you tell me your facts with this question:
How many legitimate adult citizens in the United States do NOT have any kind of ID.

Tell me.

I'll be waiting for you facts.

Fucking dumbest shit I've ever head someone say to me.

Democrat fanboys, polit correcters, guilters, anti whiters and similar usually tend to be hipsters, artists, softies and so on. Meaning they do not follow cold logic, they are just emotional. That is why it is often pointless to argue with them.

[Robbie]

Well as I pointed out earlier...
You can not do the following things unless you HAVE an ID:
Buy a car
Have a place to live (not even in a welfare/govt. subsidized place)
Get electricity turned on
Get water turned on
Get a phone
Get a job

Now how the FUCK can there be any real amount of legal adults who are not mentally handicapped and have a life (place they live, car they drive, phone, electricity, water) that do NOT have any kind of an ID

That's what kills me with what arock10 just said to me.

Doesn't he think things through?

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Doesn't he think things through?

My post from above applies

[Just Alex]

So many clueless fucks here. Illegals voting. Right,as if they got nothing better to do than risk being deported.

[kane]

Allow me to add a little reality to this discussion. My mom would be a perfect example of someone affected by a voter ID law.

My mom is 74 years old. 2 years ago she moved into an assisted living center. About 5 years ago her drivers license expired. It had been a few years since she had driven anyway so she had no intention of driving again, but she needed an ID. The problem was that she was in a nursing home with some major health issues at the time so it was impossible for me to get her to the DMV to get a state issued ID card. I called the DMV and they happily sent her an application for a non-photo ID. She filled it out, sent it back and now has a state ID without a picture on it.

With a non-picture ID she has gotten on medicare and medicaid and gotten a new social security card because the one she had for most of her life had her name spelled wrong on it. She has pretty much gone about her life without any problems whats so ever. However, if she had to get a photo ID it would cost her.

Here's why. She was born in 1940 at home. She is unsure if her birth certificate (which she no longer has a copy of) is in Illinois or Florida. We could look online and eventually find out. At best she would likely have to pay to get a copy of her birth certificate then pay to get a photo ID in our state. Total cost would likely be around $75-$100 depending on the cost of the birth certificate and anything else she may need.

In my mom's case my brother and I would pay for it for her. However, there are a lot of people that live where she lives who don't have family to help them out. They end up with about $50-$75 in extra money each month after their care is paid for. For someone like that, this could be a major burden.

All of the studies done show that voter fraud is almost non-existent, yet the republican party continues to work to fix a problem that isn't broken in an effort to hopefully keep a few more people from the polls that might vote against them.

[Robbie]

kane, in your mother's case...would she be going to the polls to vote on election day? It's sounds as if she isn't able to get around much.

That's the kind of example I was talking about...how many people percentage-wise of legal adult age AND of sound mind and body (physically able and willing to leave a nursing home to go stand in line to vote) are there WITHOUT any kind of ID?

And again...as far as "studies" showing that voter fraud is almost non-existent...how would a "study" be able to ascertain that? That's like saying there was no investor fraud...UNTIL they caught Bernie Madoff and realized he had been doing it all along.

And it's a very, very famous fact that in the city of Chicago...the Democrat Party machine was well known for having dead people vote in droves to keep Mayor Daley in power for decades.

And that was just ONE political machine in ONE city.

I'm not trying to say that voter fraud is running rampant, but since a person has to show ID for everything in life...shouldn't they be required to show ID for their most important civic duty as a citizen?

Take the politics out of it for a second...don't YOU think that a person should show their ID to vote?

And if there is some mitigating circumstance, as in the case of your mom...then that should be taken into account.

[astronaut x]

Its not, stfu

[AsianDivaGirlsWebDude]

One key question in the battle over the legality of voter identification laws is whether such laws are necessary to prevent voter fraud and whether they suppress a lot of votes from eligible voters.

Though the answer to the second question remains in considerable dispute, after Tuesday?s federal court decision striking down Wisconsin?s voter ID law, it is time for voter ID supporters to throw in the towel and admit state voter ID laws don?t prevent the kind of fraud they are supposedly targeted for.

Federal Judge Lynn Adelman looked at the evidence from Wisconsin and reached a conclusion unsurprising to those of us who study how elections are run. ?Virtually no voter impersonation occurs in Wisconsin,? Adelman wrote, ?and it is exceedingly unlikely that voter impersonation will become a problem in Wisconsin in the foreseeable future.?

Wisconsin is not alone in lacking such evidence.

When the United States Supreme Court considered the constitutionality of Indiana?s voter ID law in 2008, the state conceded there was no evidence, ever, of impersonation fraud in the entire state.

This is not surprising. Voter impersonation fraud is an exceedingly dumb way to try to steal an election. Someone would have to send people into polling places claiming to be others ? either dead voters who have not been removed from the rolls, or people who have not yet shown up to vote, or fictitious people pre-registered and getting by any identification requirements when registering. Then the fraudster would have to hope that these imposters vote the way they were paid to. The fraudster would have to do this in large enough numbers to affect the outcome of an election, while avoiding detection of this conspiracy.

A far smarter way to steal an election is through the sale of absentee ballots. That transaction can be done in private. The person buying the ballots can buy blank ones from cheating voters, then cast the votes herself. These ballots can be cast simply by mailing them.

In researching my book The Voting Wars, I could not find one case since at least 1980 in which voter impersonation fraud was used to arguably steal an election.

True, Hans von Spakovsky made allegations about such events happening in the 1970s in Brooklyn. But his claims this is emblematic of a current problem have been debunked. Nor have other members of the ?fraudulent fraud squad? produced credible evidence of any recent problem with such fraud tricking election officials.

In contrast, it is easy to find cases throughout the country every year of fraud or attempted fraud with absentee ballots. Voter ID laws do nothing to prevent absentee ballot fraud.

President Barack Obama recently gave a speech saying voter fraud is rare. He discussed a News21 study that found only 10 reported prosecutions for impersonation fraud across the country from 2000 to 2012. Robert Popper, a Judicial Watch attorney, argued this week in a Wall Street Journal op-ed article that the News21 report was unreliable because, among other reasons, the data were incomplete.

Popper misses the forest for the trees, however. No doubt, 10 cases of impersonation undercounts the total number of instances of such fraud. But what?s crucial are the comparative statistics. In the same 2000 to 2012 period, the News21 study found 491 absentee ballot prosecutions. And though the 10 cases of impersonation fraud all appeared unrelated and not part of any larger plot to steal an election, some of the absentee prosecutions indeed involved attempts to alter election outcomes.

Relative to absentee ballot fraud, impersonation fraud is a blip on the radar. In the Supreme Court?s case about Indiana?s law, Justice John Paul Stevens had to reach back to Boss Tweed in 1868 New York and a one possible case of impersonation fraud in 2004 in Washington state to bolster the argument that there is still potential for such fraud that could justify state ID laws.

At some point, honest observers just have to admit that impersonation fraud is not a serious problem in the United States. Many suspect (as do I) that these laws ? passed almost exclusively by Republican state legislatures ? are part of an attempt to make it harder to cast a ballot for voters who skew Democratic.

Judge Richard Posner, of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit, recently conceded he may have erred when he wrote an opinion upholding Indiana?s voter ID law. ?I plead guilty,? Posner wrote, ?to having written the majority opinion (affirmed by the Supreme Court) upholding Indiana?s requirement that prospective voters prove their identity with a photo ID ? a law now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than fraud prevention.?

For this reason, many supporters of state voter identification laws have now shifted tactics to argue that the laws are necessary to promote voter confidence in the electoral process. If voters are worried their votes will be stolen, their argument goes, maybe they won?t vote.

Adelman, who wrote the Wisconsin case, did not think much of that argument either. He noted academic studies show no relationship between voter confidence and the presence or absence of an ID law. In addition, the judge noted it is the fear-mongering over such laws that might matter the most: ?Perhaps the reason why photo ID requirements have no effect on confidence or trust in the electoral process is that such laws undermine the public?s confidence in the electoral process as much as they promote it.?

Now it is another question whether voter ID laws actually suppress as many votes as Democrats claim. I have been skeptical of such claims in the past, because in many instances challengers to voter identification laws have not been able to produce eligible voters who lack the necessary identification and could not easily get it.

But as states have further restricted the types of identification required to cast a ballot, these voters have been far easier to find.

In the Wisconsin case, the judge looked closely at the evidence and determined that up to 300,000 people lacked the identification demanded ? and many of them would have trouble getting it.

Similarly, a state court judge in Pennsylvania recently determined that 320,000 to 400,000 people in that state lacked the requisite ID and the state was not well prepared to get ?free? IDs into the hands of everyone who wanted it.

"I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality... I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word."

- Martin Luther King, Jr.



ADG

[2MuchMark]

Here you go, Grape Soda:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...e-poor/254572/

[kane]

Originally Posted by Robbie

kane, in your mother's case...would she be going to the polls to vote on election day? It's sounds as if she isn't able to get around much.

That's the kind of example I was talking about...how many people percentage-wise of legal adult age AND of sound mind and body (physically able and willing to leave a nursing home to go stand in line to vote) are there WITHOUT any kind of ID?

And again...as far as "studies" showing that voter fraud is almost non-existent...how would a "study" be able to ascertain that? That's like saying there was no investor fraud...UNTIL they caught Bernie Madoff and realized he had been doing it all along.

And it's a very, very famous fact that in the city of Chicago...the Democrat Party machine was well known for having dead people vote in droves to keep Mayor Daley in power for decades.

And that was just ONE political machine in ONE city.

I'm not trying to say that voter fraud is running rampant, but since a person has to show ID for everything in life...shouldn't they be required to show ID for their most important civic duty as a citizen?

Take the politics out of it for a second...don't YOU think that a person should show their ID to vote?

And if there is some mitigating circumstance, as in the case of your mom...then that should be taken into account.

In Oregon we vote by mail so a voter ID law wouldn't really work, because the ballot is mailed to you and you mail it back or drop it at a voter box. So she has and will vote. If she had to go to a poll she might still go. She has a wheelchair now so she can get around a little better and if not she would do an absentee ballot.

As for others, I personally can't see how the average, typical person can survive without an ID. As you have pointed out, it is needed for everything these days especially with ID theft such a big problem, but clearly there are a lot of people without. Now that I think about it my soon to be 21 year old nephew doesn't have a valid photo ID. He has been arrested a handful times and always has extra troubles because he has no ID.

As for voter fraud. I guess we can't really know the exact number of fraudulent votes cast. I am basing my opinion on those actually charged with it. According to this ABC news article between 2002-2005 there were 197 million votes cast for federal candidates and only 40 people indicted on actual voter fraud. The state of Texas has convicted 51 people of voter fraud in the last 10 years.

I'm sure there are more that do it and get away with it, but to me it seems like a pretty small problem. I would rather they focus their efforts on curbing the fraud that is committed by the people that run the elections in an effort to swing elections one way or the other. Not to mention how many of the voter ID laws also include reducing the number of days people can vote and how they can vote. Most of them are simply voter suppression laws.

[arock10]

Originally Posted by Robbie

What facts? What the fuck are you talking about.

That's why I hate talking to some of you. YOU are repeating made-up shit you hear or read and stating it as "fact"

Well why don't you tell me your facts with this question:
How many legitimate adult citizens in the United States do NOT have any kind of ID.

Tell me.

I'll be waiting for you facts.

Fucking dumbest shit I've ever head someone say to me.

The percentage of citizens without IDs is far greater then the percentage of in person voter fraud. There are plenty of facts already in this thread about how very little in person voter fraud there is.
So clearly it's a non issue, since for statistical purposes there is no in person voter fraud. So why do republican legislatures keep bringing it up? Seems pretty fucking obvious.

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by kane

Allow me to add a little reality to this discussion. My mom would be a perfect example of someone affected by a voter ID law.

My mom is 74 years old. 2 years ago she moved into an assisted living center. About 5 years ago her drivers license expired. It had been a few years since she had driven anyway so she had no intention of driving again, but she needed an ID. The problem was that she was in a nursing home with some major health issues at the time so it was impossible for me to get her to the DMV to get a state issued ID card. I called the DMV and they happily sent her an application for a non-photo ID. She filled it out, sent it back and now has a state ID without a picture on it.

With a non-picture ID she has gotten on medicare and medicaid and gotten a new social security card because the one she had for most of her life had her name spelled wrong on it. She has pretty much gone about her life without any problems whats so ever. However, if she had to get a photo ID it would cost her.

Here's why. She was born in 1940 at home. She is unsure if her birth certificate (which she no longer has a copy of) is in Illinois or Florida. We could look online and eventually find out. At best she would likely have to pay to get a copy of her birth certificate then pay to get a photo ID in our state. Total cost would likely be around $75-$100 depending on the cost of the birth certificate and anything else she may need.

In my mom's case my brother and I would pay for it for her. However, there are a lot of people that live where she lives who don't have family to help them out. They end up with about $50-$75 in extra money each month after their care is paid for. For someone like that, this could be a major burden.

All of the studies done show that voter fraud is almost non-existent, yet the republican party continues to work to fix a problem that isn't broken in an effort to hopefully keep a few more people from the polls that might vote against them.

studies show that NO voter fraud has been prosecuted which is very different than studies done show that voter fraud is almost non-existent.... there is voter fraud all the time I'm sure.... saying there is NO voter fraud is like saying 'no one breaks the law' with a straight face and expecting everyone to believe it.... when obama started his run for pres, his senate seat went up for sale... (unless you think that is a teaparty plot as well) ... and yet you insist there is not voter fraud ? if there is no fraud, why is there such a determined effort to stop the ID law.... that what you should ask yourself