Grapesoda

As for voter fraud. I guess we can't really know the exact number of fraudulent votes cast. I am basing my opinion on those actually charged with it. According to this ABC news article between 2002-2005 there were 197 million votes cast for federal candidates and only 40 people indicted on actual voter fraud. The state of Texas has convicted 51 people of voter fraud in the last 10 years.



I wouldn't mind some effort put into stopping welfare and medicade cheats

arock10

Sure there is voter fraud, just not IN person voter fraud. I doubt asking for rod blagojevich's id would've helped

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Grapesoda

the issue with what you say is, your severally bigoted, just like Larry and you will consistently ignore or disbelieve any facts that disagree with your world view. the problems arising from this are you ASUME that everyone else is running the same agenda... causing you to turn even deeper into your 'closed loop worldview'.... think 'the earth is flat' see what I mean?

the only reason voter fraud is a 'non issue' is because you have made the 'grand pronouncement' and demand that we all except this as a fact.

we don't. we expect the same from every person regardless of color or income... get identification.... we trust that minorities are able to do this.

you don't, you except that minorities are not able to function at a high enough level in modern society to perform such a simple task, hence it's 'unfair' to ask that they do. you claim we are persecuting minorities for expecting that minorities can function at societal 'norms' ... who's the racist here again?

mopek1

Republicans wouldn't be so interested in this if they didn't think it would give them an advantage in some way.

Republicans are not doing it to curb voter fraud. It's to gain an advantage.

Dems are using race to 'keep' their advantage.

Neither party cares about anyone really.

Grapesoda

yes in fact my thought is 'politics' is a mental illness

crockett

It's kind of like how Republicans had zero interest when it was shown that the electronic voting machines were insecure and that you can actually manually change the vote count the machine give out by inserting a corrupted card.

The Republicans didn't seem to think that was much of an issue..

I'm all for voting reforms but again as I mentioned before unless you go all the way with a actual ID for voting that replaces the actual voters card, then it's not solving anything. It's just another case of Republicans bitching and moaning and not doing anything that really matters.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I would agree that your politics reflect a degree of mental illness.







Rapidly changing demographics are going to soon wipe away any short-term advantage that the rightwing voter suppression efforts may have, leaving the GOP with an increasingly smaller base as it continues to alienate large sectors of society.



ADG

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Jel

Jel

voting = a way for the politicians (who all want the same thing - which is to either get, or stay in power) to fool the public into thinking that their vote has any kind of say whatsoever in how the public are treated. Rather than 100% of people up in arms at the jokers that run our countries, the 'voting' system always ensures there are factions within the public who bicker in pubs, bars, on message boards, and wherever else, ensuring that both the 'left' and the 'right' side always have someone on their 'side'.

Genius, really.

Just Alex

Oh, now this shit is officially racist. 25% of blacks?
Im going to wait for brassmonkey and blackmonsters confirmation once they are done calling ex-girlfriends with Mothers Day greetings.

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Grapesoda

that's pretty interesting.... your thought is that if a person can't function up to a societal norm it's racist?

Grapesoda

Larry stop aggressively denouncing/belittling people that have an opinion that differs from yours... your pronounced bigotry and arrogance is a bit well...creepy... but see thats the beauty of America... you can think what you want AND are you ready for this?????

I can think what I want.. I know it's hard to believe, but that the law

if you want to be ashamed of being a middle aged American white male.. that's you're fucking issue and has nothing to do with me...:as far as rapidly changing demographics.... at some point there will be no more tax revenue left bribe the public for votes... then what?

L-Pink

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Robbie

Best reply in this thread! Thank you...somebody had to say it and you did perfectly.

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I call you out as a bigot and racist Grapesoda because quite frankly, that is what you have proven yourself over and again to be...

In Grapesoda's own words:

This thread you started was meant as race-bait (as many of your threads/posts are), so it doesn't surprise me when some of GFY's most prominent closet racists mindlessly cheer you on.

I don't need anybody cheerleading my posts to validate me or my positions.

It honestly cracks me up when self-proclaimed "true American" conservatives try to label liberals as "the real racists", to deflect from their own racism, with statements such as:

That is classic racist doublespeak...

There are a variety of reasons that a substantial portion (as many as 11%) of the electorate do not have photo IDs, and many of the Voter ID laws are simply a thinly veiled conservative move to disenfranchise millions of American voters who historically vote for liberal candidates:

BTW, for the benefit of anyone who isn't aware about why you keep calling me "Larry", even though that is not a nickname that I use, this is Brian's cowardly impotence and immaturity on display.

Like many people on GFY, I choose to use a nick (in my case "ADG"), in lieu of my real name. I also have an industry name which I use when dealing with the public (Dick Webber), since I prefer to keep my real name private. With that said, I've conducted business with 100+ people on GFY, and they all know my real name.

Because he disagrees with my positions, Grapesoda is attempting to silence me by trying to use my name and the threat of exposing my private information as a form of bullying/intimidation. I'm sorry for him that he feels that he has to sink to that level in order to feel better about himself (very Donny Long of him).

Oh well, I will ask once again for Brian to please knock off the personal nonsense and stick to debating the issues.

Now I must go make brunch for my wife.

Have a Happy Mother's Day muthafuckas...



ADG

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kane

Obama's seat going up for sale had nothing to do with voter fraud. It was fraud pure and simple. It was one greedy guy trying to cash in on it. The voters themselves have nothing to do with it.

Why is there such a determined effort to stop the voter ID laws? Because they most affect the poor and minorities who regularly vote democrat. In many states these laws also include shortening early voting days and restricting how votes are cast which also tends to affect those who vote democrat more.

I'm sure there is some fraud that happens that isn't caught. I just don't see the evidence that it is a big problem and that these laws will fix it.

Robbie

kane, I'm not so sure that it's aimed at the "poor" or "minorities". They all have ID for the most part. Especially the REALLY poor who are on any kind of govt. assistance.

Nope...as I said earlier...I think it's aimed at keeping people who are not legal citizens from voting.

And IF a person from Mexico was here "illegally" and was going to vote...he would vote for the party that gives him the most "stuff" for free.

So in my mind...The Democrats don't want to lose those potential votes, and the Republicans want to shut that down.

Both sides are vested in it for their own power.

But in the end...showing ID to vote is a perfectly common sense move.

And if Democrats REALLY cared about "minorities" and "the poor" who supposedly do not have ID's by the millions...then they could turn their "Get Out The Vote" drives into "Get An ID And Vote" drives.

It's just not that hard to get an ID for the majority of healthy people. And if the Democrat Party Machine in towns can go pick people up in buses and take them to vote...then why can't they pick them up in buses and go get an ID too?

Nope...this is all about a "voting block" that theoretically exists: Illegal Immigrants.

Has nothing to do with poor people or "minorities" (the race card).
Poor people and minorities aren't stupid or helpless. And the vast majority of them HAVE ID so they can live their lives.

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2MuchMark

The worst thing about all of this, is that the people in charge of this whole voter ID thing is that they do not even realize that it is racist. They are going out of their way to make it harder for minorities to vote, when they should be doing just the opposite.

Voting is a right for every citizen, and everyone should be encouraged, not discouraged, from voting for the people or party they believe will be better for the country.

Republican in office are so, fucking, fucked-up that they do not care that their old, boring and dangerous ideas are not what the majority of Americans want, so they lie and cheat their way into bending the votes towards their favour.


sad.

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L-Pink

Oh bullshit. The mere fact you WANT TO VOTE means you want to be part of the system. If part of the system means you have 4 years to come up with an ID between elections it should be no problem.

Don't confuse racism with common sense. Unless you are just fucking trolling again.


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Grapesoda

had everything to do with the seat going up for sale... IT'S THE SAME EXACT FUCKED UP PEOPLE IN ACTION... doing what they do... to think that this type of person would do commit voter fraud is INSANE

do you have evidence of this OR are you reporting the common liberal narrative... i.e. did you do in-depth research? there is a big difference in the 'narrative and reality' why don't you see for yourself.... personally I have no knolwage or either side of the argument...

BUT I do believe if you need ID to get on a fucking airline, or buy cigarettes... maybe, just fucking maybe you should have ID to partake in the MOST valuable aspect of being an American..... the 'privilege of voting. that right I stated 'privilege' not a 'right'.... because that's what voting is, a privilege... a privilege hard earned by men's blood, you know the same men liberals mock everyday for being stupid enough to be a soldier...

Robbie

So Mark...you think that "minorities" (and I believe YOU are talking about black people) don't have ID's?

Is that what you are saying?

And do you think that they are somehow inferior to white people who seem to be able to get an ID?

And how do you explain the fact that you can't get electricity, water, rent an apartment or buy a home, buy a car, get a phone, etc. WITHOUT an ID? How do you explain that Mark?

Are these imaginary "minorities" without ID just living by "magic"?

Please explain it to me. Am I "racist" because I foolishly think that minority races are perfectly as capable as I am of getting an ID?

Or are you the one who thinks they are inferior and YOU are the racist?

In which case, your statement: "do not even realize that it is racist" applies to YOU?

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

From the Drudge Report yesterday:

I'm guessing some Libertarians and GOP types are not going to like this very much...watching Ron and Rand Paul's LiberGOP bipolar political act certainly is entertaining.



ADG

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kane

I wouldn't and don't have a problem with any voter ID law that is strictly about voter ID. If there was some way where a person who was forced to spend money to get an ID they otherwise didn't have and/or need in order to vote and they could show that doing so was a hardship for them, that this person could be reimbursed the cost or the ID and the process made available for free, I would have no issue with it.

The problem is that most of these laws also come with other restrictions. For example the voter ID law that is currently being fought over in North Carolina. In addition to having to show ID (which is fine) they also decreased the number of days for early voting and they removed the ability to register to vote and vote on the same day. Those second two things have nothing to do with voter ID and everything to do with limiting democrats votes because the studies show the those who vote democrat are more likely to vote early and take advantage of same day registration.

Personally I think all elections should be like my state does. You vote by mail. The ballot comes a few weeks before the election. You fill it out and mail it back or drop it in a vote ballot collection box. Problems solved. Of course republicans don't like that because it increases voter turnout which they are not fans of.

Jel

ex-felons can't vote? why not?

pr0phet

If 90 percent of the people being asked are black then yes it's racist. Similar to marijuana laws.

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mopek1

Disagree.

It is to keep people who normally vote democrat away from the polling stations.

Again. Republicans have rarely shown any interest in voter fraud. The electronic voting machines example was cited above. The Florida voter count controversy had NO republicans questioning the validity of what happened. None of them called for an inquiry to protect the electoral process afterwards. Because they WON!!

Again, they don't care about keeping things 'just'. Republicans are doing this NOT because they really care about I.D. requirements, it's to keep a segment of voters away.

Now, you might say, "Why shouldn't people have I.D? Isn't that fair and just? Isn't it logical?"

Maybe so. But DO NOT pretend that this is about that.

2MuchMark

Take it easy... jesus fucking christ. Don't you find it interesting that black, brown and young people tend to vote democratic, and the GOP wants to make it harder for them to vote, claiming voter fraud when there is hardly any? For the conspiracy-minded types at GFY this should be a no brainer.


That's the thing Robbie, many minorities are not able to get the ID required, and some of the ID's that minorities do have are rejected for wrong reasons.

To give you an admittedly far-out example, here in Quebec a few years ago there was a general election, and there was reports of voter intimidation at the voting stations, where some people were now allowed to vote because they wore poppies on their coats. A Poppy is a symbol of remembrance of war veterans here in Canada, and nothing at all political. However, the right to vote was denied by these people anyway, and the reason was stupid - the same way it is stupid to deny voting rights to anyone because their ID isn't deemed good enough in the US.

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kane

I disagree and think it is just the opposite. If I were living illegally in a country the last thing I would try to do is vote and put myself in a situation where people might find out I am an illegal.

The studies have shown that people who tend to vote democrat also tend use the early voting days and those without ID's, depending on the number you believe it could be a good segment of the population, also tend to vote democrat.

There is a reason (as far as I know)that every one of these bills has been put forth by republicans. They want to keep the poor, the disenfranchised, and the elderly who are on state assistance away from the polls because they tend to vote democrat.

I don't doubt for a second that the democrats would love to find a way to help illegals vote, but I think they are working on doing that through easing immigration laws. Make them legal first, then get them to to the polls.

Just Alex

I think most of his observations are pretty accurate. Unpleasant to hear for some but not racist. Is it racist to say Chinese like rice?

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Mutt

This is just ridiculous. If you can't get your shit together to have proper ID then nobody needs your vote. And if you're senile, mentally ill to the point your cognitive function is seriously impaired - no we definitely don't need you voting.

The same technology that is used for Bitcoins could be used for voting, the time has come for online voting. Put this into the hands of Apple or a consortium of tech companies - we saw what the White House did with the healthcare website.

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brentbacardi

Almost all statistics based off race are pointless. The proper data shows its all about income and location. Your race doesn't matter, if you are poor and live in an inner city but are white or asian or latino or something else, yup you are less likely to have an ID maybe and more likely to get shot by police.

But if you are rich and live in the nice area of town, and happen to be black or asian or white, or native american or anything... I bet you have an ID and the police say "Hello Sir, wonderful day today, glad to protect and serve you."

Has nothing to do with race whatsoever.

So why do more blacks and latinos end up poor in inner cities? They all CHOOSE to live there! The apartments are MUCH cheaper if you move out of the city, I am white and would NEVER live in a city if I was poor, I would move out of the city to a small town where its CHEAP and SAFE and the schools are MUCH better.

I really don't understand why they aren't moving out of inner cities in droves.

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Robbie

I just keep asking the same question... HOW can any functioning adult in the United States NOT have an ID.

You have to have one for everything you do in life. From getting a place to live, to turning on electricity, to get running water, to have a phone, even to get welfare (for those "poor" people we keep hearing about).

I keep seeing posts telling me that this is hurting minorities...then somebody explain to me why minorities don't have any ID? And if they don't...how do they live with no home, no electricity, no water?

Please...somebody explain to me how that works these days.

Unless all these poor, inner city people have secret farms built in the ghetto where they get all their food and have secret water supplies that they get their water from and have built their homes with their bare hands on some secret land that nobody else owns.

Can somebody explain that to me? These poor minorities whom some of you are convinced are just so dumb and weak that they can't go get an ID...but they somehow are surviving with no electricity, water, or a home. And they are chomping at the bit to go vote on election day. lol

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kane

Here is a good story by NPR that explains who doesn't have the proper ID and why. It seems like about 11% of the adult population overall doesn't have a valid government issued picture ID. However, many of them have other ID cards that have pictures on them. For example a Costco card, a student ID card, a credit card etc. They have been able to get by using these other forms of ID. These voter ID laws won't allow those types of ID, they require a specific government issued ID.

Robbie

That NPR link uses the Brenan study.

They called people on the phone and asked them if they had an ID. lol

It's not a real study that shows anything close to real numbers.

I would imagine that 9 out of 10 people hung up the phone when they realized they were just cold called by a think tank. And the rest might have told the truth or might not have.

Not even close to actual numbers.

And every story, just like the NPR one you just linked to, use the Brenan "study" as their "proof".

I just don't think that is accurate data under any circumstance.

And if you're telling me that all the "poor" "minorities" who just couldn't get a govt. issued picture ID of any sort...were then able to get college ID's (I thought they were poor?), Costco ID's (I thought they were poor?), and credit cards (I thought they were poor?) and use those...then I say to you:
If they can get all of that, and are just raring to go to vote (lol)...then why on Earth are they not able to get a govt. issued picture ID?

It just doesn't make sense.

As for getting a "special govt. issued ID"...uh, yeah. That's what a valid "ID" is. Try going to a nightclub and see if they let you in with your Costco card. Or buy a beer at the store and see if they let you do that.

Here in Nevada you can go to the DMV and get an 8 year ID card (expires and has to be renewed every 8 years)

Here is the cost:
Under 18 years old: $9.25.
18 – 64 years old: $21.25.
65 years old or older: $7.25.

Doesn't seem like that should be out of reach for anybody.
I even googled up to find out if the fee can be waived for homeless people and other's who are too poor.

Found a page full of links for that. Looks like it's true in every state (though I did not take the time to fully investigate that).

From everything I can see...there is no reason (except for very old people who were born before records were kept properly and have no birth certificate) for any healthy person in the United States of legal age to NOT have some form of ID.

It's easy to do, it's cheap, and if you can't pay...the govt. will waive the fee apparently.

And again, on that Brenan report...they literally called a small sample of people on the phone and asked them if they had ID.
And every anti-voter ID site in the world uses THAT "study" as "proof".

I say that because all the ones I found on Google had links to sites and they all cited Brenan. Just like the NPR link you posted.
I have yet to find anything that doesn't use that "study" as the basis for their flawed thinking.

I even found a link that "Debunked" a newspaper story about how inaccurate the Brenan report was. Guess where I found that? On the Brenan website! LOL!!!

So the people who made some phone calls and are cited as proof...then "debunked" (The word "Debunked" was actually in the page title) a newspaper story that called them out on it!

That's as bad as the Dept. Of Justice investigating itself. heh-heh

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kane

As I have said before in this thread, if the voter ID laws were just about ID I wouldn't have a problem with them. Most states could quickly come up with a solution for those who are too poor or in a bad situation and can't afford or aren't able to get to the location to get an ID.

The problem is that most of these laws also want to restrict other voting options. They do things like restrict registration dates, reduce the days for voting, change where and how you can vote and other things like that.

If they just want a vote ID bill, great. Put up a bill that is just about voters having to get and show an ID to vote. But don't put in a bunch of other shit that is meant to reduce the number of votes cast and call it bill that is meant to fight fraud when in reality it is a voter suppression bill.

2MuchMark

No that's not true. Every politician needs and wants as many votes as they can get. If you don't need someone's vote, don't you think your competitor will try to grab them?

Hmmm... no, not the best idea I don't think..

Not true. The more information you know, the better your decisions on managing your business, or in this case, delivering your message to potential voters will be. Differences in race means differences in cultures. Addressing cultural concerns is extremely important. This is one area where the GOP fails constantly. They delivery a message alright, but its always the wrong one.


I'll give someone else a chance to answer this one...


It's not that they don't have an ID, its that they don't have a "VOTER ID". In many places, especially where minorities live, the GOP has made it harder and harder to get a Voter ID, and harder and harder to vote. This is the problem.

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mopek1

Why do you think the Republicans are interested in this now?

Grapesoda

let me be very specific Larry.. you are a creep, in my opinion. I have no personal information to threaten you with. I have no inner need to belittle you.

I personally find you to be a bigot in the 'purest sense of the word' : a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. and I also find you to be a bully and arrogant and intellectually dishonest... and possibly not that smart? who know who cares...

take your creepy stuff and bother other people and just stay out of threads I start.... thanks

BTW if in my opinion needing ID to vote is a positive thing, that's my opinion AND I have every right to that opinion by law. I have not tied that opinion to race, you have, and in doing so have tried to paint with the racist brush .... very weak logic Larry... don't you have something better to do? like earn a living or something?

Joshua G

these are the 2 wisest posts in the thread. thank you for your insights...

sperbonzo

Now I finally understand why police ask for ID.... DAMN RACIST BASTARDS!!!!

I've also just realised that my bank is racist, the local store that asks for ID with a credit card is racist, the state goverment department that runs the guardian ad litum program that asked me for ID when volunteering is racist, the local library that wanted an ID for a library card is racist, the airlines are all racist, The local state tax office asking for my ID is racist, the DMV when I registered my car.... SHIT!! THERE ARE RACISTS EVERYWHERE!!!!!! THE LIST IS ENDLESS!!!










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bronco67

And that's pretty much it. It's very transparent as to what they're trying to do by limiting as many democratic voters as possible. One Pennsylvania politician even admitted that voter ID and voting time restrictions would help Republicans win their campaigns.

Higher voter turnout always fovors Democratic candidates. Republicans know that most of the country is not going in the same direction. The only option they have at this point is to cheat, because they sure as shit aren't going to get votes by being against everything...except tax cuts. That's the only thing they give a shit about.

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L-Pink

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crockett

Don't be stupid..

If you are driving police have the right to require you to provide your drivers license because it is not a right to drive, but rather a privilege. If you are walking down the street a police officer can not force you to show him your ID. Unless you are breaking the law he has no right or authority to hold or detain you due to not providing a ID unless you are driving.

A bank account, is also not a right but a privilege. Voting however is a right..

2MuchMark

Howdy -

You're missing the point. Asking for ID is normal for anything such as banking, etc, and its ok to ask for it for voting too. The problem is that most of the ID's that SOME people have are now, suddenly, good enough. For example, in some states, a drivers license was not good enough. I don't recall the details but there are stories of some 90+ elders who had always been able to vote in the past, but now find that things like their birth certificate, marriage license etc, are not good enough.

To get the proper "NEW" ID, meant that it would take weeks or months, or having to jump through many hoops, or do a lot of travel etc, just to get the ID.

At the same time this was going on, many polling stations were being moved to hard to get to areas, or had the number of voting machines reduced to increase already very long voting lines.

They also took away things like Sunday voting which was very very popular with the Cristian black groups.

All of there above were policies put in place by republicans. They seem to be making it harder and harder, for minorities and or low income people to vote.

GFY'ers here love to find correlation between unrelated events, stitch them together and call it proof. But when it seems to fly in the face of perceived conservative values, they protest, and sometimes too much.

Peace.

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bronco67

haha yeah...all of these shenanigans are in states run by Republicans. Any idiot can do the math and see what's going on.

Are republicans suddenly the crusaders for voter fraud that's been proven to not exist?

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L-Pink

If a democrat was pushing for voter ID would it still be a racist idea? Or common sense?

Robbie

Bullshit.

I just pointed out that a quick search of google on how to get a state issued ID came up with this:

You go to the DMV.
And here in Nevada for instance, the cost is: Under 18 - $9.25, 18-64 - $21.25, 65 or older - $7.25 If you are homeless or do not have the means to pay...the fee is waived.
You walk out with your new ID right there. It's similar in the other states as well.

Tell me some more about all this "travel" and "hoops" to jump through, and waiting "weeks or months".

It's simply NOT true.
Pure propaganda by the far "left" (I say "left" because they certainly aren't true liberals).

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Mutt

Their motivation is besides the point - the Democrats are no better, they'd like as many disadvantaged and helpless people, and that includes DEAD people, to vote as possible knowing they'll vote for the party that promises to give them free stuff. So both parties have their own self interests front and center in this tawdry sport.

All that aside, if you want to vote, whether you're old, black, immigrant, whatever - if you can't get it together enough to get an ID card your vote is worthless, we may as well give the vote to 6 year olds and people in comas.

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2MuchMark

Dude... its not only TRUE, but its been going on for a while. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression

And, here's 7 ways the GOP are currently causing voter suppression : http://www.alternet.org/story/153509...r_vote_in_2012

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Robbie

NO...what YOU said is NOT true.

I showed you that it is easy and cheap (and free if you can't afford it) to get a govt./state issued picture ID in one day.

You claimed it would take months, was difficult to get and required long travel.
You were either lying...or totally misinformed (as usual).

I googled up how to get a state issued id. Try googling that for yourself genius.

Then come back and tell me how it's gonna be "suppressing the vote". LOL!
The only thing it will "suppress" would be the DNC registering DEAD people to vote. (as they have done many times in the past)

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