Business Client ignored payment requests for 6 months so I posted bill on their facebook page

[MrBottomTooth]

Just wondering if I opened myself up to any legal action because of that and our stupid privacy laws in Canada. It was just a bill for under $70 for website hosting and some minor website changes for a site I developed for them.

The people let their domain name expire by accident, then decided not to bother with the site at all any more.

They still owed me $67.80 for past work so I sent them a bill. Of course since they no longer had a website there was no need in their mind for them to pay me since I had no recourse (I couldn't shut their site off since they no longer had one)

I got sick of not getting a response (original invoice was dated April 28, 2014) so I posted a message asking them if they could please pay their bill along with a copy of the invoice on their facebook wall. Honestly I don't think the message even showed up as I couldn't see it on there. I thought maybe they had it set so they had to approve any messages before they appeared on their wall. I could be wrong though.

Anyway, it worked. I got my cheque along with a message that says:

"I apologize for not getting this done but having said that I did not appreciate you posting on our website my personal bill so all could see! This is my private information you have shown."

The invoice did not show her actual name, just the name and address of her business which is public, along with a description of the work done and the amount owed.

Anyone familiar with PIPEDA and crap like that in Canada? She's a loser that got canned from her last job and is struggling to keep her restaurant open, so I doubt she has money for a lawyer, as long as they don't take cases like this on contingency. If she thinks she could get a payday I'm sure she would pursue it though, since they are extremely hard up for cash with a failing business in a location where 3 previous owners have failed doing the same thing.

[seeandsee]

They paid you, you won, who cares?

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by seeandsee

They paid you, you won, who cares?

I know, just wondering if I should expect a lawsuit to follow. Even if I do, it was worth it for the principle of the matter. So tired of deadbeats.

Just finished selling something on ebay and now dealing with a non-paying bidder. Googled the guy's name and address and turns out he's a convicted fraudster as well, owing a motel over $17000. Just my luck.

[RandazzoXXX]

All of this whining and harassing them on facebook over a measly 67 bucks. You sound like a deadbeat yourself.

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by RandazzoXXX

All of this whining and harassing them on facebook over a measly 67 bucks. You sound like a deadbeat yourself.

A deadbeat is someone that doesn't pay their bills.

Do you do work for someone then don't care if you are paid?

If so, you are a fucking moron.

And posting one post on facebook asking to be paid is hardly harassing (and it worked). And it took exactly the same amount of time that you took to post your worthless post in this thread. By your logic, you must also be a deadbeat.

[clickity click]

Originally Posted by RandazzoXXX

All of this whining and harassing them on facebook over a measly 67 bucks. You sound like a deadbeat yourself.

Who do you work for?
I fancy getting 67 bucks of free shirt myself.

[shoot twice]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I know, just wondering if I should expect a lawsuit to follow. Even if I do, it was worth it for the principle of the matter. So tired of deadbeats.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if you're willing to push it as far as you did for 70bucks that you're probably not a member of the Rockafeller family.

Therefore you shouldn't be too worried about a lawsuit because it's a waste of time and money suing someone that would worry about an outstanding $70 bill.

However congratulations on getting your money.

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

A deadbeat is someone that doesn't pay their bills.

Do you do work for someone then don't care if you are paid?

If so, you are a fucking moron.

And posting one post on facebook asking to be paid is hardly harassing (and it worked). And it took exactly the same amount of time that you took to post your worthless post in this thread. By your logic, you must also be a deadbeat.

no, that doesn't make you a deadbeat, but that is a bit unprofessional. So is not paying but why muddy your own water collecting $67?

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by shoot twice

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if you're willing to push it as far as you did for 70bucks that you're probably not a member of the Rockafeller family.

Therefore you shouldn't be too worried about a lawsuit because it's a waste of time and money suing someone that would worry about an outstanding $70 bill.

However congratulations on getting your money.

Well that's the thing. I didn't really see it as "pushing it". Just got tired of not getting a response.

I wasn't worried about the money because I needed it to buy formula for my starving children, I'm just growing increasingly tired of people that don't pay their bills and I see no reason to let them slide.

If you've seen any of my posts on here where I show pics of my house or vehicles, you can plainly see I'm not in the poor house.

[MrBottomTooth]

I think this lackadaisical attitude from many I see here and elsewhere is the reason people think they can get away with not paying what they owe. Fuck them. If they owe me $5 I will make sure I collect.

[Socks]

You're seriously worried about someone in another country using the very expensive legal system to fight over a (paid...) $70 bill?

c'mon now..

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Socks

You're seriously worried about someone in another country using the very expensive legal system to fight over a (paid...) $70 bill?

c'mon now..

Not sure why you assumed they were in another country. They are 15 minutes from me. And I'm not worried about the bill. If there was an issue it would be with me violating our privacy protection act in Canada, which can result in hefty penalties. The bill is a non-issue.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Commercial collections law and personal debt collections laws are different in this state -- a business name and a personal name may not have the same protections under privacy laws (in Canada?). I would check that out.

Fuck 'em if they stiff you and ignore any contact.

Peer pressure of social media collects debt

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Commercial collections law and personal debt collections laws are different in this state -- a business name and a personal name may not have the same protections under privacy laws (in Canada?). I would check that out.

Fuck 'em if they stiff you and ignore any contact.

Peer pressure of social media collects debt

Ya I never had her personal name on the invoice and the facebook page was of the business alone, so thinking I'm probably safe. Thanks.

[Adultnet]

well facebook page is a communication channel.. you posted a related payment issue on it.. does not sound like an issue..?

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Adultnet

well facebook page is a communication channel.. you posted a related payment issue on it.. does not sound like an issue..?

Well our laws are fucked here. Might be an issue with publicly outing someone's debt. I've been reading some of the laws but not sure if they would apply to this case, or only in the case of a debt collection agency.

No sense in wasting any more time on it. I must admit it was a satisfying experience though. She sure mailed that cheque fast after my post.

[Relentless]

You won't be sued... but I wouldn't expect any more work for you from that client or anyone who that client does business with in the future.

[signupdamnit]

You probably did break the law. I don't know about Canada but here in the US that would violate the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) and possibly other such laws. Since Canada tends to be better overall about consumer protection and privacy I would be shocked if that weren't illegal there.

IANAL but you should either get one if you have a lot to lose or not respond to her at all further regarding the matter. Anything you say could end up being used against you. I believe here the fine is something like $2,000 with the possibility of more if they can show actual damages.

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

You probably did break the law. I don't know about Canada but here in the US that would violate the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) and possibly other such laws. Since Canada tends to be better overall about consumer protection and privacy I would be shocked if that weren't illegal there.

IANAL but you should either get one if you have a lot to lose or not respond to her at all further regarding the matter. Anything you say could end up being used against you. I believe here the fine is something like $2,000 with the possibility of more if they can show actual damages.

Ya i wont be responding further since i got my cheque. I doubt i'll use the same method in the future either. But if i do ill make sure i dont post the actual invoice. Sucks because it seems pretty effective. Lol

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Relentless

You won't be sued... but I wouldn't expect any more work for you from that client or anyone who that client does business with in the future.

I wouldnt accept any more work from her. This is the second time she has ignored payment requests, but the first time i was still in control of her website, which she didnt want to lose at the time. She'll be out of business within a year.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

You probably did break the law. I don't know about Canada but here in the US that would violate the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) and possibly other such laws. Since Canada tends to be better overall about consumer protection and privacy I would be shocked if that weren't illegal there.

IANAL but you should either get one if you have a lot to lose or not respond to her at all further regarding the matter. Anything you say could end up being used against you. I believe here the fine is something like $2,000 with the possibility of more if they can show actual damages.

don't think so:

The PIPEDA Does NOT apply to

Government institutions to which the Privacy Act applies.
Individuals who collect, use, or disclose personal information for personal purpose and use.
Organizations which collect, use, or disclose personal information only for the purpose of journalist, art or literary.

i suppose someone would take money to argue he isn't an individual and a business.. but for the amount and situation?

massive corporations are doing much, much worse.

[Ferus]

Unless you had +500 clients(doubt it) I would not even consider $67.80 "business"

[shoot twice]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

Well that's the thing. I didn't really see it as "pushing it". Just got tired of not getting a response.

I wasn't worried about the money because I needed it to buy formula for my starving children, I'm just growing increasingly tired of people that don't pay their bills and I see no reason to let them slide.

If you've seen any of my posts on here where I show pics of my house or vehicles, you can plainly see I'm not in the poor house.

I never said you were poor and I don't need to see a picture of your home or cars But I can understand standing up for a principal as I tend to be rather moralistic myself

Just the same if you're loaded with money to the ying-yang. You might want to consider keeping it to yourself. Because if no one knows your rich not only are people reluctant to sue you for something. BUT... you tend to be able to quickly see who your real trust worthy friends are who the know-it-all ass kissers are snifing around for a quick buck.

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Ferus

Unless you had +500 clients(doubt it) I would not even consider $67.80 "business"

It was mostly website hosting fees for a small local restaurant in a rural area. One of many small businesses I look after that pay me recurring monthly income with no work on my part. Should I start charging a small business hundreds of dollars for reselling them hosting just so I can somehow achieve your baller status?

You wipe your ass with 20 dollar bills right, and shred cheques before cashing them like Jodete.... just because you can.

I like how all these people pretend they don't get out of bed unless someone throws a thousand dollar bill at them.

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by shoot twice

Just the same if you're loaded with money to the ying-yang. You might want to consider keeping it to yourself. Because if no one knows your rich not only are people reluctant to sue you for something. BUT... you tend to be able to quickly see who your real trust worthy friends are who the know-it-all ass kissers are snifing around for a quick buck.

Solid advice, but I don't go around bragging about having money. I just mentioned it in this thread since you seemed to be implying I was a broke loser.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by signupdamnit

You probably did break the law. I don't know about Canada but here in the US that would violate the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (FDCPA) and possibly other such laws. Since Canada tends to be better overall about consumer protection and privacy I would be shocked if that weren't illegal there.

IANAL but you should either get one if you have a lot to lose or not respond to her at all further regarding the matter. Anything you say could end up being used against you. I believe here the fine is something like $2,000 with the possibility of more if they can show actual damages.

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act | Federal Trade Commission
The regulations only apply to debt collectors and holders in due course (look that one up F. Lee Baily)

(6) The term "debt collector" means any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the collection of any debts, or who regularly collects or attempts to collect, directly or indirectly, debts owed or due or asserted to be owed or due another. **Notwithstanding the exclusion provided by clause (F) of the last sentence of this paragraph, the term includes any creditor who, in the process of collecting his own debts, uses any name other than his own which would indicate that a third person is collecting or attempting to collect such debts. For the purpose of section 808(6), such term also includes any person who uses any instrumentality of interstate commerce or the mails in any business the principal purpose of which is the enforcement of security interests. The term does not include --

(A) any officer or employee of a creditor while, in the name of the creditor, collecting debts for such creditor;

**What that says is that if you tell someone you are a debt collection agency, the Mafia, or whatever, to collect a debt these regulations will apply.

Also, if you are the original creditor, and not an assignee or holder in due course; you are exempted. Owner or Sole Proprietor was omitted -- I would argue that it never was the intention of the regulation -- the word natural person could have been used if that was the intent ...

Futhermore, it is a US Federal rule, and as such: the venue would be in the Federal Courts. The case would be dismissed based on no cause for action -- an individual collecting a debt owed to him, using his own identity, or a pseudonym (nickname at Facebook) would be exempt -- the ony triable issue might be if that name was in fact known to the debtor -- obviously it was she paid the debt.

Case dismissed
Court adjourned

Maybe Canadian law is different, but to the best of my knowledge, the privacy laws in Canada (and in the EU) are to do with personally identifiable information, employment records, identity papers. 18 U.S.C §2257 disclosures, without court warrant are illegal under Canadian and European Privacy laws, that I know for fact ... ** added : exception being that person's knowing consent to the disclosure.

[Ferus]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

You wipe your ass with 20 dollar bills right,

No - but I dont spend time with a businessmodel where I need to collect amounts like what you mention. Simple as that-
Learn from it and move along.

It's experience

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by Ferus

No - but I dont spend time with a businessmodel where I need to collect amounts like what you mention. Simple as that-
Learn from it and move along.

It's experience

Rather than simply move along I chose to make one facebook post and got my money. That's what I learned and now I have moved along. And our business relationship had ended anyway, since the site was taken down due to them losing the domain name. So this was their final bill.

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I wouldnt accept any more work from her. This is the second time she has ignored payment requests, but the first time i was still in control of her website, which she didnt want to lose at the time. She'll be out of business within a year.

That's a shortsighted way of thinking. You may not want more work from her, but you also don't want her telling people never to hire you. You may want some of those people to hire you and now it will be harder to make that happen.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Relentless

That's a shortsighted way of thinking. You may not want more work from her, but you also don't want her telling people never to hire you. You may want some of those people to hire you and now it will be harder to make that happen.

I don't think that someone that stiffs you for $67 is much of an influencer or that you would want that person's referral anyway: "Try this guy -- he's a pushover -- I beat him out of $67."

[PR_Glen]

Originally Posted by Relentless

That's a shortsighted way of thinking. You may not want more work from her, but you also don't want her telling people never to hire you. You may want some of those people to hire you and now it will be harder to make that happen.

that's what i was getting at..

changes things a lot that it wasn't a personal fb page, i must have missed that part of it.

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

I don't think that someone that stiffs you for $67 is much of an influencer or that you would want that sort of a referral anyway: "Try this guy -- he's a pushover -- I beat him out of $67."

Fair point... I still wouldn't have gone to the mat over $67.00 and created a potential problem for myself in the future. Then again... it reinforces my own policy of payment up front from all new clients as the best strategy of all.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Relentless

[T]hen again... it reinforces my own policy of payment up front from all new clients as the best strategy of all.

Definitely, for small amounts. Larger sale amounts: deposits and progress/completion payments.

[Relentless]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Definitely, for small amounts. Larger sale amounts: deposits and progress/completion payments.

That's the same thing... so long as the deposits and payments remain ahead of the work being completed.

[MiamiBoyz]

Good for you!

Public shaming has been an effective tool since the beginning of time.

[_Richard_]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Fair Debt Collection Practices Act | Federal Trade Commission
The regulations only apply to debt collectors and holders in due course (look that one up F. Lee Baily)



**What that says is that if you tell someone you are a debt collection agency, the Mafia, or whatever, to collect a debt these regulations will apply.

Also, if you are the original creditor, and not an assignee or holder in due course; you are exempted. Owner or Sole Proprietor was omitted -- I would argue that it never was the intention of the regulation -- the word natural person could have been used if that was the intent ...

Futhermore, it is a US Federal rule, and as such: the venue would be in the Federal Courts. The case would be dismissed based on no cause for action -- an individual collecting a debt owed to him, using his own identity, or a pseudonym (nickname at Facebook) would be exempt -- the ony triable issue might be if that name was in fact known to the debtor -- obviously it was she paid the debt.

Case dismissed
Court adjourned

Maybe Canadian law is different, but to the best of my knowledge, the privacy laws in Canada (and in the EU) are to do with personally identifiable information, employment records, identity papers. 18 U.S.C §2257 disclosures, without court warrant are illegal under Canadian and European Privacy laws, that I know for fact ... ** added : exception being that person's knowing consent to the disclosure.

my understanding is the US has a stricter policy on this..

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

The invoice did not show her actual name, just the name and address of her business which is public, along with a description of the work done and the amount owed.

PIPEDA is concerned with regulating the collection and disclosure of personal information. I highly doubt that the name and address of a business could be considered 'personal', particularly considering that under PIPEDA her given name (as associated with the business) isn't even considered 'personal'

as to whether she could sue you anyways, of course she could- any idiot can launch a lawsuit. I can't imagine a lawyer taking something like this on contingency though.

glad you got paid

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by _Richard_

my understanding is the US has a stricter policy on this..

The only law I can think of offhand that you could say that about is HIPAA and that is medical records disclosure: HIPAA Violations and Enforcement criminal fines and penalties

[lagcam]

There is such a thing as "harassment of a debtor" in many countries with specific rules about what you can and cannot do when collecting a debt. Aside from the frequency and time of calls and communications there is also a section involving contact with friends and family of the debtors. You might want to check your State's rules on this.

[shoot twice]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I don't go around bragging about having money. I just mentioned it in this thread since you seemed to be implying I was a broke loser.

I was trying hard not to insult you and obviously failing at it miserably.

Face to face is always easier to talk to someone. But on the Internet it's not always easy to chose the right words or phrases. I find that even using a webcam the Internet is still a very 2 dimensional flat form of communication.

[tommy730]

Originally Posted by shoot twice

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that if you're willing to push it as far as you did for 70bucks that you're probably not a member of the Rockafeller family.

Just wondering, have anything for sale? I'm buying. All sorts of stuff.

[InfoGuy]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

It was mostly website hosting fees for a small local restaurant in a rural area.

You should have just rang up a $67 bill at her restaurant and called it even.

[MrBottomTooth]

Originally Posted by InfoGuy

You should have just rang up a $67 bill at her restaurant and called it even.

Lol. Wish i would have thought of that. Unfortunately i would have been charged with theft as soon as i walked out without paying. They should have a similar criminal charge for being a deadbeat.

[ruff]

I would probably consult with a real attorney rather than consulting with the GFY Bar Association.

[mineistaken]

Originally Posted by Ferus

Unless you had +500 clients(doubt it) I would not even consider $67.80 "business"

Normal amount in hosting business.

[Captain Kawaii]

Originally Posted by MrBottomTooth

I wouldnt accept any more work from her. This is the second time she has ignored payment requests, but the first time i was still in control of her website, which she didnt want to lose at the time. She'll be out of business within a year.