Keystone XL pipeline debate is a joke!

[slapass]

Everyone knows it is a good thing. Except for Warren Buffet who owns the railroad that currently ships that oil. Since he is a huge supporter of Obama, Obama keeps saying he will veto any bill and the Democrats are supporting him.

Billionaire gets his way and the US loses out on tons of jobs, revenue, etc.

WTG Buffet and Obama!

[suesheboy]

Yep, ship that dirty oil through our country.

Those are the kind of jobs we need.

What about jobs after the pipe is built? When does the pipeline get removed? Who pays for that?

[slapass]

Originally Posted by suesheboy

Yep, ship that dirty oil through our country.

Those are the kind of jobs we need.

What about jobs after the pipe is built? When does the pipeline get removed? Who pays for that?

Is there clean oil?

Why would we remove it? and the answer is the owner of the pipeline.

Shipping it by rail is a better idea?

Environmentalists are agreeing that this is happening and going to happen, the only question is where and how.

[suesheboy]

Originally Posted by slapass

Is there clean oil?

Why would we remove it? and the answer is the owner of the pipeline.

Shipping it by rail is a better idea?

Environmentalists are agreeing that this is happening and going to happen, the only question is where and how.

We don't need to burn the worst oil. We should stop burning oil.

Look at other pipelines in the US that have been abandoned and what has happened to the land owners whose families owned the land before, during and after the functional life of a pipeline. The companies that put them in doesn't just rip them up and clean up the mess.

If we burn all the oil that is in the ground in North America alone, we will blow past the urgent tipping point of carbon 4 TIMES what conservative estimates are.

[slapass]

Originally Posted by suesheboy

We don't need to burn the worst oil. We should stop burning oil.

Look at other pipelines in the US that have been abandoned and what has happened to the land owners whose families owned the land before, during and after the functional life of a pipeline. The companies that put them in doesn't just rip them up and clean up the mess.

If we burn all the oil that is in the ground in North America alone, we will blow past the urgent tipping point of carbon 4 TIMES what conservative estimates are.

We are passed the tipping point by most estimates.

"But the State Department concluded in a highly anticipated environmental analysis released in January that the pipeline?s contribution to greenhouse gases would be minimal, since the oil would find a way to market with or without the project."

It produces 17% more greenhouse gases then normal oil. Why not capture some of the economics of that?

[slapass]

i think the biggest part is it would be pipeline through the Bakken and could be used to ship that oil out instead of by rail.

Edit: nope other pipeline is proposed for that and wow also being held up.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Why dnon't they just use/or add capacity of the existing northern route -- looks like it is near the Williston Basin where there is USA produced oil ...

The southern extension make sense to Houston and Port Aurther.

Analysis: $1B in subsidies for Keystone XL refiners | Midwest Energy News

[suesheboy]

Originally Posted by slapass

It produces 17% more greenhouse gases then normal oil. Why not capture some of the economics of that?

With an extra 34% taxes to go to alternate energy on this dirty oil I am fine with that.

[30SalesPlus]

I don't understand how people think shipping it or railing it is better for the environment because the reality is that oil will get there just a matter of how. Here's a list of just a few things oil is used to make, its not just gas.

Clothes
Toothbrushes
Ice Chests
CD's & DVD's
Paint Brushes
Detergents
Vaporizers
Balloons
Sun Glasses
Tents
Heart Valves
Crayons
Parachutes
Telephones
Floor Wax
Ballpoint Pens
Football Cleats
Upholstery
Sweaters
Bicycle Tires
Nail Polish
Fishing lures
Tires
Golf Bags
Perfumes
Dishwasher parts
Tool Boxes
Shoe Polish
Motorcycle Helmets
Caulking
Petroleum Jelly
Transparent Tape
Ipods
Faucet Washers
Antiseptics
Food Preservatives
Basketballs
Soap
Vitamin Capsules
Antihistamines
Purses
Shoes
Dashboards
Cortisone
Deodorant
Footballs
Putty
Dyes
Panty Hose
Refrigerant
Percolators
Life Jackets
Skis
TV Cabinets
Shag Rugs
Electrician's Tape
Epoxy
Paint
Mops
Insect Repellent
Umbrellas
Yarn
Fertilizers
Hair Coloring
Roofing
Toilet Seats
Fishing Rods
Lipstick
Denture Adhesive
Linoleum
Ice Cube Trays
Synthetic Rubber
Speakers
Plastic Wood
Electric Blankets
Glycerin
Tennis Rackets
Rubber Cement
Fishing Boots
Dice
Nylon Rope
Candles
Trash Bags
House Paint
Water Pipes
Hand Lotion
Roller Skates
Surf Boards
Shampoo
Wheels
Paint Rollers
Shower Curtains
Guitar Strings
Luggage
Aspirin
Safety Glasses
Antifreeze
Football Helmets
Awnings
Eyeglasses
Enamel
Pillows
Dishes
Cameras
Anesthetics
Artificial Turf
Artificial limbs
Bandages
Dentures
Model Cars
Folding Doors
Hair Curlers
Cold cream
Movie film
Soft Contact lenses
Drinking Cups
Fan Belts
Car Enamel
Shaving Cream
Ammonia
Refrigerators
Golf Balls
Toothpaste
and of course Gasoline.

[suesheboy]

Good read Here's What Big Oil Has in the Pipes if Keystone Fails | Mother Jones

[slapass]

Originally Posted by suesheboy

With an extra 34% taxes to go to alternate energy on this dirty oil I am fine with that.

Good luck with that. You guys know it is going to be refined but by who and where is the debate. Canada isn't leaving it in the ground now do to lack of people to take it. They are shipping it by rail.

Same with the bakken oil.

This is a dumb argument. It is being pumped, refined and used. The question is how to transport it.

[slapass]

Originally Posted by suesheboy

Good read Here's What Big Oil Has in the Pipes if Keystone Fails | Mother Jones

I didn't see an issue. Yep they need approval and yep people are going to bitch.

[bronco67]

Republicans want this so badly because it's going to make some their friends very rich.

It's not creating many long term jobs. It's a pork project that will put money in a few people's pocket, destroy some land and keep us relying on fossil fuels longer.

You can bet if conservatives want something, it sucks ass and only benefits them. When have they ever wanted to do something that helps anyone?

[crockett]

Why can't can't Canadians just refine it them selves? The simple fact is they just want to pump it across the US to then sell it on the open market. It's not like the oil will be refined and used in the US. Meaning we get next to no benefit in the US for that pipeline, yet we carry all the risk of spills and cleanups with no real benifit.

[Rochard]

I am on the fence about this but I am siding with "let them build it".

It will create a fair amount of short term construction jobs, and of course any jobs are good for the economy.

Discussions about the environmental impact are silly. People don't know this, but early all gas / oil isn't shipped via truck, but by pipeline. For example, gas in Phoenix is really made in California and shipped by pipeline. When the pipeline broke one year, it caused a huge gas shortage. But the environmental impact was nil - when the pipeline broke, it broke and they fixed it; It didn't dump millions of barrels anywhere. These pipelines criss-cross the United States and it's not an environmental issue at all.

If Canada needs to refine it's oil.... Why wouldn't it just send it to Minnesota, which is one of the top five states for refining oil? Make no mistake about it - this is not about refining oil, it's about transporting it. They are going to pass this oil through the United States and sell it elsewhere.

If that's not enough... It seems most of the pipeline is already built and in place and running.

So...
- More jobs
- More money in the US (to maintain and run the pipeline, then to refine it)
- More money in taxes
- Zero to little environmental impact

Just build it already.

[2MuchMark]

Originally Posted by slapass

Everyone knows it is a good thing.

Yeah, except it's not.

It's being sold to Americans as a job creator but its not. The truth is that it creates a few temporary jobs as it sells you guys extremely dirty and extremely dangerous energy from CANADA.

Not even Canadians outside of the industry are behind this fiasco. Every smart person here hopes president Obama veto's this fucking thing.

Originally Posted by slapass

Is there clean oil?
.

No, but this is the dirtiest of the dirt.

Originally Posted by suesheboy

We don't need to burn the worst oil. We should stop burning oil.
.

Correct. Burning oil especially for electricity is old school crap sold to your grandparents.

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Why dnon't they just use/or add capacity of the existing northern route -- looks like it is near the Williston Basin where there is USA produced oil ...

The southern extension make sense to Houston and Port Aurther.

And / or at least, move the pipeline away from the Aquifer, the water base that supplies millions of Americans with fresh, renewable drinking water. But republicans won't have it, noooOOoo...

Originally Posted by suesheboy

Good read Here's What Big Oil Has in the Pipes if Keystone Fails | Mother Jones

The Alberta Tar sands is Canada's biggest embarrassment and one of the biggest ugliest polluters. I would love to see these fuckers shut down.

Originally Posted by slapass

This is a dumb argument. It is being pumped, refined and used. The question is how to transport it.

It's not a dumb argument. The US does not need to buy this energy from us. I'm no fan of oil and fracking but this Canadian Tarsand shit is fucking awful. If this goes through you will suck more CO2 into the atmosphere than ever before. They Keystone Pipeline benefits only the ultra-rich, no one else.

Originally Posted by bronco67

Republicans want this so badly because it's going to make some their friends very rich.

That is exactly right.

Originally Posted by crockett

Why can't can't Canadians just refine it them selves?

Because it is cheaper and safer to be have this garbage refined in your country. (Sorry, just sayin')

Originally Posted by crockett

The simple fact is they just want to pump it across the US to then sell it on the open market. It's not like the oil will be refined and used in the US. Meaning we get next to no benefit in the US for that pipeline, yet we carry all the risk of spills and cleanups with no real benifit.

That's right. Energy produced by Keystone will actually go to the US Market. It will all be sold. The Keystone Pipleline is good only for an extremely few number of people. "Job Creation" based on the XL pipeline is a lie.

Originally Posted by Rochard

It will create a fair amount of short term construction jobs, and of course any jobs are good for the economy.

No that is not true. Green energy is better for the economy. The XL Pipe is good for Canadians, not Americans. The jobs it creates are few and temporary.

Originally Posted by Rochard

Discussions about the environmental impact are silly.

No my friend, this is really different. The pipe isn't transporting regular oil or natural gas. Pollution from tar sands oil greatly eclipses that of conventional oil. During tar sands oil production alone, levels of carbon dioxide emissions are three to four times higher than those of conventional oil, due to more energy-intensive extraction and refining processes. The Keystone XL pipeline would carry 830,000 barrels of dirty tar sands oil into the United States daily, and result in climate-damaging emissions equal to adding more than 5.6 million new cars to U.S. road.

Originally Posted by Rochard

People don't know this, but early all gas / oil isn't shipped via truck, but by pipeline. For example, gas in Phoenix is really made in California and shipped by pipeline. When the pipeline broke one year, it caused a huge gas shortage. But the environmental impact was nil - when the pipeline broke, it broke and they fixed it; It didn't dump millions of barrels anywhere. These pipelines criss-cross the United States and it's not an environmental issue at all.

True but again this isn't regular oil or gas. This is something extra thick requiring higher pressures, and this is extra toxic.

Originally Posted by Rochard

If Canada needs to refine it's oil.... Why wouldn't it just send it to Minnesota, which is one of the top five states for refining oil? Make no mistake about it - this is not about refining oil, it's about transporting it. They are going to pass this oil through the United States and sell it elsewhere.

I don;t know for sure but I think the reason is just "off shore" labour. In Montreal east there used to be over a dozen oil refineries: Esso, Texaco, BP, etc. Growing up as a kid near them my neighbourhood was surrounded by smoke stacks spewing out black smoke from these places. Over the years the number of smoke stacks have been reduced to almost none while the factories replaced with empty lots and (ack - green spaces and parks!). Maybe, Canada is ditching the refineries and moving all that shitty dirty work down south.

Originally Posted by Rochard

If that's not enough... It seems most of the pipeline is already built and in place and running.

So...
- More jobs

No.

Originally Posted by Rochard

- More money in the US (to maintain and run the pipeline, then to refine it)

No, less money. You guys have to buy that shit from us.

Originally Posted by Rochard

- More money in taxes

I bet you $100 that the oil companies refining this crap get tax exceptions.

Originally Posted by Rochard

- Zero to little environmental impact

I wish, but no... this is is another fuck-you to the environment I'm sure. I'd bet you but I'd hate to win this one.

Originally Posted by Rochard

Just build it already.

Nooo!!! Just kill it already. No one needs it. Why does the US need to buy more energy when you are already producing so much? Currently, we have an extreme excess of this shit that we don't know what to do with. Canada sold the US on this crap with a really sweet deal that will be "refined" and marked-up like crazy to consumers while fat cats grin. Why not sell your own energy instead? No - the XL Pipeline is some greedy SOB's plan to make more money with a dirt-cheap, and very dirty product. Say No to the XL Pipeline.

[PornDiscounts-V]

Normally I am all for this sort of thing, but tar sands oil is where we as a race need to figure out that sometimes you have to go in a different direction. Buffet wins here, but so do the oil billionaires. They win no matter what. Oil sands is a stupid way to get oil. Do that when all else fails.

[suesheboy]

Originally Posted by vvvvv

Oil sands is a stupid way to get oil. Do that when all else fails.

There is your answer.

[slapass]

Originally Posted by bronco67

Republicans want this so badly because it's going to make some their friends very rich.

It's not creating many long term jobs. It's a pork project that will put money in a few people's pocket, destroy some land and keep us relying on fossil fuels longer.

You can bet if conservatives want something, it sucks ass and only benefits them. When have they ever wanted to do something that helps anyone?

Pork projects create jobs. So this or is not that.

It will create short term jobs and long term revenue for the leaseholders of the land or one time payments or whatever. Pipeline spills are less common and usually smaller then tanker spills etc. So they dig a trench down through the least populated part of the US. This is a good thing for everyone. We are not going to stop using oil. We can wait for them to build their own refinery. Their own pipeline. Their own system but as a country we do need jobs and infrastructure.

I bet some advertising company gets a royalty every time someone types "dirty oil."

[slapass]

Originally Posted by **********

That's right. Energy produced by Keystone will actually go to the US Market. It will all be sold. The Keystone Pipleline is good only for an extremely few number of people. "Job Creation" based on the XL pipeline is a lie.



Nooo!!! Just kill it already. No one needs it. Why does the US need to buy more energy when you are already producing so much? Currently, we have an extreme excess of this shit that we don't know what to do with. Canada sold the US on this crap with a really sweet deal that will be "refined" and marked-up like crazy to consumers while fat cats grin. Why not sell your own energy instead? No - the XL Pipeline is some greedy SOB's plan to make more money with a dirt-cheap, and very dirty product. Say No to the XL Pipeline.

Oil is priced globally. Our price rises and drops on a world wide demand/production levels. It doesn't matter to the USA if it sold locally or internationally. We import 7 million barrels of oil a day. Selling 700k back is a push.

Stopping the pipeline is not stopping the mining and refining of this oil. It keeps us/them doing it in an inefficient manner. And benefits billionaires. It is just different billionaires.