If You Switched To NATS: Questions - GoFuckYourself.com

The Porn Nerd · 02-15-2015, 12:48 PM

If you run a Program and have paysites and switched from a 3rd party processer to your own merchant account and are now running NATS I want to hear from you.

Some questions for you:

1. The transition - huge pain in the ass or relatively smooth?
2. How did you handle the move with your affiliates?
3. Did many of your affiliates re-signup under NATS or did you lose some?
4. Do more affiliates promote your Program now that you are with NATS?
5. Are your affiliates happier now with NATS?
6. Are you happy you made the switch or regretting it?

And the Most Important question of them all:

7. Are you making more money now having switched to NATS?

Please share your experiences. I am sure there are many Program Owners in my position wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Harmon · 02-15-2015, 12:49 PM

Congratulations! You've made my list! Also, congratulations on not having a clue.

Also, fuck you.

We'll talk soon. Douche canoe.

The Porn Nerd · 02-15-2015, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

Congratulations! You've made my list! Also, congratulations on not having a clue.

Also, fuck you.

We'll talk soon. Douche canoe.

LOL OK.....:D

I have been with CCBill for years now, building my little paysite empire so I am looking for some opinions from those who have transitioned in this way. I can see how this would annoy you.

DVTimes · 02-15-2015, 12:57 PM

NATS 4.1 | Wouj Webmaster Site

PornDiscounts-R · 02-15-2015, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

If you run a Program and have paysites and switched from a 3rd party processer to your own merchant account and are now running NATS I want to hear from you.

Some questions for you:

1. The transition - huge pain in the ass or relatively smooth?
2. How did you handle the move with your affiliates?
3. Did many of your affiliates re-signup under NATS or did you lose some?
4. Do more affiliates promote your Program now that you are with NATS?
5. Are your affiliates happier now with NATS?
6. Are you happy you made the switch or regretting it?

And the Most Important question of them all:

7. Are you making more money now having switched to NATS?

Please share your experiences. I am sure there are many Program Owners in my position wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Hit up Wayne from puffycash for a chat about that one. Super nice guy and have made the same switch. Still does the payment through ccbill

x12media · 02-15-2015, 01:25 PM

Well nats is not a merchant or payment gateway so you would still need ccbill or merchant accounts etc.

Now , the affiliate and tracking etc are top knotch , and I don't think anything even comes close .

The Porn Nerd · 02-15-2015, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x12media

Well nats is not a merchant or payment gateway so you would still need ccbill or merchant accounts etc.

Now , the affiliate and tracking etc are top knotch , and I don't think anything even comes close .

Yes I know a merch account/gateway is needed but just wondering from the transition side of things. Also if Programs are seeing sales improve after making the switch in terms of more affiliate sales.

I guess I am asking how big a hassle it is and if Programs find it worthwhile to switch.

x12media · 02-15-2015, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Yes I know a merch account/gateway is needed but just wondering from the transition side of things. Also if Programs are seeing sales improve after making the switch in terms of more affiliate sales.

I guess I am asking how big a hassle it is and if Programs find it worthwhile to switch.

The thing I liked about nats, is people know when they sign up as an affilaite with NATS that they are getting true tracking etc.. NATS has made if very difficult for people to skim your traffic etc.
(not saying that it could be done, but it takes a shit load more work then others in order to try to do it)

The learning curve for NATS is probably the biggest thing, but once you understand it, then its pretty easy going.

Also the support from TMM is amazing!!!

I created a pretty complex integration and they have been amazing on support with issues and billers as well.

Jel · 02-15-2015, 02:28 PM

NATS is 'just' aff tracking, and going on your past posts how pretty much all your traffic is via tubes/type-ins, you're way better off sorting out MIDs than worrying about nats.

Though also, NATS is very sweet, and if you have a lot of affs, or are starting a program with a view to getting affs other than tubes, is the way to go. Webmasters stuck in 2005 say "I'll only use ccbill" etc, whales will look at ccbill and mark it as a con rather than a pro (though don't *generally* send to revshare anyway, so I'm not saying a switch to NATS will see all the big hitters flock to your program). It pisses all over eg ccbill though, like a rolls royce pisses all over a skoda.

AmeliaG · 02-15-2015, 02:37 PM

I believe the migration should be smooth, especially if you migrate your CCBill affiliates to credit old links.

As an affiliate, I don't sign up for new NATS programs. Among other things, I've seen too many programs migrate and then close or slow pay.

American Psycho · 02-15-2015, 02:51 PM

It only makes sense if you have decent sales volume.

Its a bunch of extra work and $.

Sly · 02-15-2015, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

I believe the migration should be smooth, especially if you migrate your CCBill affiliates to credit old links.

The migration will not be smooth. Especially if you are switching billers at the same time. There are a lot of moving parts in the equation and getting them all working together will cause a lot of headaches and frustration, especially for someone that's never done it before. I've done 5, each and every one has posed its own issues.

In Mr Nerd's case, not only will he be learning a completely new system, but he will also be playing middleman between: TMM, hosting company, gateway, CCBill, bank, customer support company, password security scripts company, CMS company, so on and so forth. The transition is going to be a task that requires a lot of attention for quite some time, especially for someone who has never done it before.

Each one that I've done has resulted in more sales. So yes, I believe it's worth doing, 100%. Just be prepared for a roller coaster and know that you are not the first or the last to experience the hell that you are about to go through.

My advice: if you are already busy running your company, hire someone that's done it before to do it for you. They will save you months of time and prevent a lot of mistakes from happening.

ITraffic · 02-15-2015, 04:58 PM

when you start a new program and network of sites just use nats from the beginning. get used to it, see if you like it, has any worth for you first.

epitome · 02-15-2015, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

The migration will not be smooth. Especially if you are switching billers at the same time. There are a lot of moving parts in the equation and getting them all working together will cause a lot of headaches and frustration, especially for someone that's never done it before. I've done 5, each and every one has posed its own issues.

In Mr Nerd's case, not only will he be learning a completely new system, but he will also be playing middleman between: TMM, hosting company, gateway, CCBill, bank, customer support company, password security scripts company, CMS company, so on and so forth. The transition is going to be a task that requires a lot of attention for quite some time, especially for someone who has never done it before.

Each one that I've done has resulted in more sales. So yes, I believe it's worth doing, 100%. Just be prepared for a roller coaster and know that you are not the first or the last to experience the hell that you are about to go through.

My advice: if you are already busy running your company, hire someone that's done it before to do it for you. They will save you months of time and prevent a lot of mistakes from happening.

This. This. This. This.

Can be done. Lots have done it. Just do not underestimate what it will take to get it done. NATS can be complex to someone who has only run a CCBill program, but that is because of all the features it offers. I know of too many people who have setup NATS and then do very little with it. If you're going to invest in migrating to NATS, be sure to take advantage of all that NATS has to offer and learn its features inside and out.

I've always viewed the transition from biller affiliate management to in-house as a natural path for a growing company.

The Porn Nerd · 02-15-2015, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel

NATS is 'just' aff tracking, and going on your past posts how pretty much all your traffic is via tubes/type-ins, you're way better off sorting out MIDs than worrying about nats.

Though also, NATS is very sweet, and if you have a lot of affs, or are starting a program with a view to getting affs other than tubes, is the way to go. Webmasters stuck in 2005 say "I'll only use ccbill" etc, whales will look at ccbill and mark it as a con rather than a pro (though don't *generally* send to revshare anyway, so I'm not saying a switch to NATS will see all the big hitters flock to your program). It pisses all over eg ccbill though, like a rolls royce pisses all over a skoda.

The MIDs are in place so therefore I must move forward. I don't know of any other way to track affiliates with my own merch accounts. I'm open to ideas, as always.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

The migration will not be smooth. Especially if you are switching billers at the same time. There are a lot of moving parts in the equation and getting them all working together will cause a lot of headaches and frustration, especially for someone that's never done it before. I've done 5, each and every one has posed its own issues.

In Mr Nerd's case, not only will he be learning a completely new system, but he will also be playing middleman between: TMM, hosting company, gateway, CCBill, bank, customer support company, password security scripts company, CMS company, so on and so forth. The transition is going to be a task that requires a lot of attention for quite some time, especially for someone who has never done it before.

Each one that I've done has resulted in more sales. So yes, I believe it's worth doing, 100%. Just be prepared for a roller coaster and know that you are not the first or the last to experience the hell that you are about to go through.

My advice: if you are already busy running your company, hire someone that's done it before to do it for you. They will save you months of time and prevent a lot of mistakes from happening.

THIS I the #1 reason I have delayed the process for over 3 years. I am WELL aware of my limitations and am a very realistic person so was not even going to attempt this until I was ready to deal with mass frustration. But now I am because I find it difficult to grow my business with 3rd party processers.

I would, of course, hire you to assist in the transition Sly but I doubt I can afford you. Could I pay with GFY t-shirts? :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by epitome

This. This. This. This.

Can be done. Lots have done it. Just do not underestimate what it will take to get it done. NATS can be complex to someone who has only run a CCBill program, but that is because of all the features it offers. I know of too many people who have setup NATS and then do very little with it. If you're going to invest in migrating to NATS, be sure to take advantage of all that NATS has to offer and learn its features inside and out.

I've always viewed the transition from biller affiliate management to in-house as a natural path for a growing company.

The troubling prospect is if after going through all this headache it's possible I will not see a significant jump in earnings. If I didn't have to worry about bouncing affiliates around from one system to another I wouldn't care so much. I can payout my partners myself.

I am also hoping that because I intend to have CCBill continue to payout to CCBill affs the transition won't be as painful. LOL But while there is a lot to learn many companies have done this so I know it's possible. Let's see if it's worth it tho.

venus · 02-15-2015, 09:07 PM

we switched about a year ago to NATS, they will port all your affiliate accounts over from the old system to NATS, but after doing so, you still have a couple of days of configuring sites so they are working correct, but they will walk you through it

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

If you run a Program and have paysites and switched from a 3rd party processer to your own merchant account and are now running NATS I want to hear from you.

Some questions for you:

1. The transition - huge pain in the ass or relatively smooth?
2. How did you handle the move with your affiliates?
3. Did many of your affiliates re-signup under NATS or did you lose some?
4. Do more affiliates promote your Program now that you are with NATS?
5. Are your affiliates happier now with NATS?
6. Are you happy you made the switch or regretting it?

And the Most Important question of them all:

7. Are you making more money now having switched to NATS?

Please share your experiences. I am sure there are many Program Owners in my position wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance everyone!

CHMOD · 02-16-2015, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

The MIDs are in place so therefore I must move forward. I don't know of any other way to track affiliates with my own merch accounts. I'm open to ideas, as always.

Have a look at Sliiing V3. The transition is easy, we take care of the affiliates payouts for you and your affiliates do not have to re signup nor switch the links that they are using to send you traffic. In fact, you do not loose any affiliates at all because they do not have to change anything on heir end.

Hit me up if you need info

Marshal · 02-16-2015, 06:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

If you run a Program and have paysites and switched from a 3rd party processer to your own merchant account and are now running NATS I want to hear from you.

Some questions for you:

1. The transition - huge pain in the ass or relatively smooth?
2. How did you handle the move with your affiliates?
3. Did many of your affiliates re-signup under NATS or did you lose some?
4. Do more affiliates promote your Program now that you are with NATS?
5. Are your affiliates happier now with NATS?
6. Are you happy you made the switch or regretting it?

And the Most Important question of them all:

7. Are you making more money now having switched to NATS?

Please share your experiences. I am sure there are many Program Owners in my position wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance everyone!

Feel free to check this out:
CCBill to NATS migration - 1. Intro - SignBucksDaily

There's Table of Contents in the right sidebar (6 pages). Maybe you will find answers to some of your questions.

The Porn Nerd · 02-16-2015, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshal

Feel free to check this out:
CCBill to NATS migration - 1. Intro - SignBucksDaily

There's Table of Contents in the right sidebar (6 pages). Maybe you will find answers to some of your questions.

Hey thanks for the link man! Nice work.

srockhard · 02-16-2015, 11:26 AM

You should give Sliiing serious consideration. I use Sliiing on JerkNetwork and NATS on RodneyBucks. I use my own merchant account as well as 3rd party. Hit me up if you want to chat.

arock10 · 02-16-2015, 12:17 PM

I switched from ccbill to nats cause I was sick of waiting for ccbill stats interface to load. That was enough for me

Feel free to hit me up if you want some more details, also you don't need a merchant account. You should already be cascading within ccbill to another third party biller anyway otherwise you are just losing money there

The Porn Nerd · 02-16-2015, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srockhard

You should give Sliiing serious consideration. I use Sliiing on JerkNetwork and NATS on RodneyBucks. I use my own merchant account as well as 3rd party. Hit me up if you want to chat.

So why one on one and not on both?

I am looking into Sliing but have questions about paying out CCBill affiliates/new affiliates.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arock10

I switched from ccbill to nats cause I was sick of waiting for ccbill stats interface to load. That was enough for me

Feel free to hit me up if you want some more details, also you don't need a merchant account. You should already be cascading within ccbill to another third party biller anyway otherwise you are just losing money there

I may do that, thank you! And I do cascade to Epoch and yes that is worth the extra expense no doubt.

iSpyCams · 02-16-2015, 02:57 PM

The original reason I used nats is because of the ability to cascade and switch billers on the fly, with billers acting sketchy from time to time or adjusting scrubs and throughput without telling anyone it seemed necessary to have my billing under my own control and be able to switch it out at a moment's notice without having to get under the hood of each site.

I did not expect it to be a walk in the park, and it's not. But once you get it set up it IS rock solid and doesn't throw you many surprises.

The only other systems I have used were amember pro and postaffiliate pro.

amember is pretty easy to set up but it's pretty useless most of the time, fails to track a good number of sales (that can be good if you're stingy with payouts, but I'm not so I hate it) and it only handles one site. Plus when I used it the reporting was minimal and required a lot of manual calculation which sucks.

Post Affiliate Pro is cheap but it's strangely not that easy to set up given it's limited feature list and it does not support tracking refunds or chargebacks, even for revshare which is a dealbreaker for me.

In the end it seems you get what you pay for in terms of both time AND money.

NETbilling · 02-16-2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

If you run a Program and have paysites and switched from a 3rd party processer to your own merchant account and are now running NATS I want to hear from you.

Some questions for you:

1. The transition - huge pain in the ass or relatively smooth?
2. How did you handle the move with your affiliates?
3. Did many of your affiliates re-signup under NATS or did you lose some?
4. Do more affiliates promote your Program now that you are with NATS?
5. Are your affiliates happier now with NATS?
6. Are you happy you made the switch or regretting it?

And the Most Important question of them all:

7. Are you making more money now having switched to NATS?

Please share your experiences. I am sure there are many Program Owners in my position wondering the same thing.

Thanks in advance everyone!

NATS will give you a HUGE amount of flexibility and couple that with our gateway and merchant account and you will surely increase your bottom line. Let us know if you have any questions.

Mitch

srockhard · 02-17-2015, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

So why one on one and not on both?

I am looking into Sliing but have questions about paying out CCBill affiliates/new affiliates.

Marco did some custom work for me a few years back and he and I became friends. The guy works harder than most and is always available. He feels more like a partner than a service. And I can't lie when I was starting JerkNetwork I wanted to make every dollar count and comparing the two options I found the price was the biggest difference for what I wanted!

As far as paying out CCBill affiliates I do not know. Sliiing offers to pay for you but for my setup I pay my affiliates directly. I don't use CCBill anymore. Strictly Netbilling (hi Mitch!) on my Sliiing program.

[TeSiL] · 02-17-2015, 05:35 AM

Maybe try CCBILL paid program

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...dam-promo.html

CCBILL paid program set for CCBILL affiliates. Ofcourse you can create in NATS own "revsahre PPS..." program with another billers. The old ccbill users are without cascade and paysite signup is redirected only to CCBILL.

arock10 · 02-17-2015, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [TeSiL]

Maybe try CCBILL paid program

https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...dam-promo.html

CCBILL paid program set for CCBILL affiliates. Ofcourse you can create in NATS own "revsahre PPS..." program with another billers. The old ccbill users are without cascade and paysite signup is redirected only to CCBILL.

Pay by ccbill in nats is no good because you can't use ccbills cascade to epoch or segpay

NETbilling · 02-17-2015, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

The MIDs are in place so therefore I must move forward. I don't know of any other way to track affiliates with my own merch accounts. I'm open to ideas, as always.

The NATS/NETbilling integration is very seamless and our staff is well versed in NATS features as well. If you are using us with your MIDS and our customer service as well, the learning curve is far less than doing it all yourself and you should for sure see an increase in revenue/profits.

We are here to help.

Mitch

iSpyCams · 02-17-2015, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NETbilling

The NATS/NETbilling integration is very seamless and our staff is well versed in NATS features as well. If you are using us with your MIDS and our customer service as well, the learning curve is far less than doing it all yourself and you should for sure see an increase in revenue/profits.

We are here to help.

Mitch

I can confirm that Nats + Netbilling is about as seamless an integration as you get.

If you've been using CCbill, Epoch or any 3rd party then you know how counter-intuitive setting up a new site or a new tour with a new price point in NATS can be, all the oddly named fields that have to be just right for anything to work, but with Netbilling you don't even have to open the NB interface at all, just tell NATS what to charge and it just works.

Depending who's doing the billing you may have to manually mark your chargebacks, I have some billers that pass them through automatically to Netbilling, and this makes them appear in NATS on the next poll, but apparently the PCI requirements for sharing that data between companies are complex and it doesn't always work for everyone. So just keep in mind to review when you get those little envelopes in the mail or email alerts or however you get your CB notices, as they may or may not be marked in Netbilling.

NETbilling · 02-17-2015, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

I can confirm that Nats + Netbilling is about as seamless an integration as you get.

If you've been using CCbill, Epoch or any 3rd party then you know how counter-intuitive setting up a new site or a new tour with a new price point in NATS can be, all the oddly named fields that have to be just right for anything to work, but with Netbilling you don't even have to open the NB interface at all, just tell NATS what to charge and it just works.

Depending who's doing the billing you may have to manually mark your chargebacks, I have some billers that pass them through automatically to Netbilling, and this makes them appear in NATS on the next poll, but apparently the PCI requirements for sharing that data between companies are complex and it doesn't always work for everyone. So just keep in mind to review when you get those little envelopes in the mail or email alerts or however you get your CB notices, as they may or may not be marked in Netbilling.

Thanks John - hope you are well. See you in Phoenix?

Mitch

ZeroHero · 02-17-2015, 03:32 PM

educational thread

AmeliaG · 02-17-2015, 06:11 PM

Other than fast-loading stats and the ability to quickly swap billers, what do folks see as the benefits of NATS?

In what way does NATS directly make more money?

Jel · 02-17-2015, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Other than fast-loading stats and the ability to quickly swap billers, what do folks see as the benefits of NATS?

In what way does NATS directly make more money?

been a fair while since I used NATS from an owner POV, but as an affiliate, it goes something like this, which does benefit the program owner also:

#1 is I want to see what urls *aren't* making sales. ccbill stats for example, and NATS, is like checking all your stats manually versus using statsremote. click click and you can drill down a multitude of ways/levels, and just as 1 example:

I send 100k to ccbillprogramhere.com from a whole bunch of blogs, galleries, spam, social media, whatever..
It shows that I do 1:5000, and I see a handful of referring urls to see where the sales came from
I fuck that program off, and go elsewhere

I send those to natsprogramhere.com from the same sources..
I see that those 20 sales come from 5k worth of traffic, and am actually doing 1:250 with the right audience/landing page
I take a look at where the rest of that wasted traffic is coming from/going to, and see if I can tweak all that, knowing that I can get a fantastic EPC with the right course

So, I either tweak that traffic that's being wasted, change a lander/tour destination, wording, USP, whatever, and get my sales up with that portion of traffic, or I send it elsewhere (which in any case can obviously be you the beneficiary sponsor, as much as you can be the 'losing' sponsor as it were). Even if I send that 95k elsewhere eventually, you keep the traffic that works, rather than having it cut off because an affiliate with many different sources can't keep track easily with eg ccbill, the same way he can with NATS tracking.

------

As the owner, you can drill down far more to see where traffic is coming in from, and what kind of traffic is converting, what tour pages are doing the biz, and stuff that I honestly can't even remember. Chuck in the time factor waiting for ccbill admin to load, the clunky as fuck navigation, and there's just a few things off the top of my head at 1.30am when my brain isn't at it's sharpest lol.

I've never been one of the true whales in the biz, though I was a pretty decent sized shark, and these days I don't even cut it as a minnow lol, but as I said earlier, whales for the most part reject eg ccbill programs right off the bat. Shit tracking isn't what the big traffic guys want to deal with, especially these days where eg media buying is all about keeping on top of your data at every level.

The Porn Nerd · 02-17-2015, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel

been a fair while since I used NATS from an owner POV, but as an affiliate, it goes something like this, which does benefit the program owner also:

#1 is I want to see what urls *aren't* making sales. ccbill stats for example, and NATS, is like checking all your stats manually versus using statsremote. click click and you can drill down a multitude of ways/levels, and just as 1 example:

I send 100k to ccbillprogramhere.com from a whole bunch of blogs, galleries, spam, social media, whatever..
It shows that I do 1:5000, and I see a handful of referring urls to see where the sales came from
I fuck that program off, and go elsewhere

I send those to natsprogramhere.com from the same sources..
I see that those 20 sales come from 5k worth of traffic, and am actually doing 1:250 with the right audience/landing page
I take a look at where the rest of that wasted traffic is coming from/going to, and see if I can tweak all that, knowing that I can get a fantastic EPC with the right course

So, I either tweak that traffic that's being wasted, change a lander/tour destination, wording, USP, whatever, and get my sales up with that portion of traffic, or I send it elsewhere (which in any case can obviously be you the beneficiary sponsor, as much as you can be the 'losing' sponsor as it were). Even if I send that 95k elsewhere eventually, you keep the traffic that works, rather than having it cut off because an affiliate with many different sources can't keep track easily with eg ccbill, the same way he can with NATS tracking.

------

As the owner, you can drill down far more to see where traffic is coming in from, and what kind of traffic is converting, what tour pages are doing the biz, and stuff that I honestly can't even remember. Chuck in the time factor waiting for ccbill admin to load, the clunky as fuck navigation, and there's just a few things off the top of my head at 1.30am when my brain isn't at it's sharpest lol.

I've never been one of the true whales in the biz, though I was a pretty decent sized shark, and these days I don't even cut it as a minnow lol, but as I said earlier, whales for the most part reject eg ccbill programs right off the bat. Shit tracking isn't what the big traffic guys want to deal with, especially these days where eg media buying is all about keeping on top of your data at every level.

Thanks for taking the time to write this excellent post! Especially at 1:30 am.

I am considering doing the NATS switch and incorporating CCBill into it so I don't lose CCBill affs and those affs can get better data.

Thing is, I seem to feel that most "whales" like NATS because most NATS Programs offer PPS options. Most Whales don't like Revshare. This is a main reason for my hesitation (along with headache more so than the expense). I do not intend to offer PPS except to a very few of my best affiliates.

Kenny B! · 02-17-2015, 10:54 PM

I've done this multiple times and it's been well worth it. As people have mentioned knowing how to set up nats and configure the program as well as your sites is something you're probably better bringing on someone who can help that's done it before, especially with the amount of sites you operate.

1. The transition - huge pain in the ass or relatively smooth?
Not a huge pain in the ass but a lot of work and attention to detail and testing is key.

2. How did you handle the move with your affiliates?
Since you're with ccbill the import is handled by nats and they do this often, this should be the least of your worries.

3. Did many of your affiliates re-signup under NATS or did you lose some?
All are automatically imported, no need to re-join. We noticed when notifying affiliates of the transition they see that the program is active and it reminds those that may have forgotten about you to re-visit and start promoting.

4. Do more affiliates promote your Program now that you are with NATS?
Tough to say, we've been using them for so long. I don't think being on nats deters anyone.

5. Are your affiliates happier now with NATS?
They have more tools and better reporting, I know as an affiliate I prefer promoting programs using Nats.

6. Are you happy you made the switch or regretting it?
Eight licenses and counting;-)

7. Are you making more money now having switched to NATS?
Any time you have more control over data and money you have the opportunity to make more money.

Lots of pros and only one big con, once you start with Nats you're married to them and it's very, very tough to leave. With all the promo tools, stats and coded links whatever issues you may have integrating are nothing should you decide to leave.

That said we see no reason to stop using nats so it's not a concern for us, but you want to know the good and the bad, so there ya have it

CHMOD · 02-18-2015, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel

been a fair while since I used NATS from an owner POV, but as an affiliate, it goes something like this, which does benefit the program owner also:

#1 is I want to see what urls *aren't* making sales. ccbill stats for example, and NATS, is like checking all your stats manually versus using statsremote. click click and you can drill down a multitude of ways/levels, and just as 1 example:

I send 100k to ccbillprogramhere.com from a whole bunch of blogs, galleries, spam, social media, whatever..
It shows that I do 1:5000, and I see a handful of referring urls to see where the sales came from
I fuck that program off, and go elsewhere

I send those to natsprogramhere.com from the same sources..
I see that those 20 sales come from 5k worth of traffic, and am actually doing 1:250 with the right audience/landing page
I take a look at where the rest of that wasted traffic is coming from/going to, and see if I can tweak all that, knowing that I can get a fantastic EPC with the right course

So, I either tweak that traffic that's being wasted, change a lander/tour destination, wording, USP, whatever, and get my sales up with that portion of traffic, or I send it elsewhere (which in any case can obviously be you the beneficiary sponsor, as much as you can be the 'losing' sponsor as it were). Even if I send that 95k elsewhere eventually, you keep the traffic that works, rather than having it cut off because an affiliate with many different sources can't keep track easily with eg ccbill, the same way he can with NATS tracking.

------

As the owner, you can drill down far more to see where traffic is coming in from, and what kind of traffic is converting, what tour pages are doing the biz, and stuff that I honestly can't even remember. Chuck in the time factor waiting for ccbill admin to load, the clunky as fuck navigation, and there's just a few things off the top of my head at 1.30am when my brain isn't at it's sharpest lol.

I've never been one of the true whales in the biz, though I was a pretty decent sized shark, and these days I don't even cut it as a minnow lol, but as I said earlier, whales for the most part reject eg ccbill programs right off the bat. Shit tracking isn't what the big traffic guys want to deal with, especially these days where eg media buying is all about keeping on top of your data at every level.

Excellent post!
I just need to add this: There is nothing in there that Sliiing can not do.
Just saying...

iSpyCams · 02-18-2015, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Other than fast-loading stats and the ability to quickly swap billers, what do folks see as the benefits of NATS?

In what way does NATS directly make more money?

NATS doesn't shovel money into your bank account, you have to do that, NATS is the shovel.

Odysseus · 02-18-2015, 07:48 AM

Quote:

4. Do more affiliates promote your Program now that you are with NATS?
5. Are your affiliates happier now with NATS?
6. Are you happy you made the switch or regretting it?

And the Most Important question of them all:

7. Are you making more money now having switched to NATS?

A lot of webmasters from Eastern Europe hate checks \ wires and prefer something like Paxum. In this case if you switch CCBill -> CCBill + NATS with alternate payouts you will have more webmasters and you can make more money.

The Porn Nerd · 02-18-2015, 10:01 AM

Thanks for this Kenny! You're the best!!

But here is the #1 thing that concerns me:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny B!

Lots of pros and only one big con, once you start with Nats you're married to them and it's very, very tough to leave. With all the promo tools, stats and coded links whatever issues you may have integrating are nothing should you decide to leave.

This is probably why I am still single. LOL Fear of commitment.

Kenny B! · 02-18-2015, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Thanks for this Kenny! You're the best!!

But here is the #1 thing that concerns me:

This is probably why I am still single. LOL Fear of commitment.

I imagine should someone come up with a killer alternative they'll also need to come up with a migration method if they want to take any Nats clients away. So unless you plan to develop your own stats system or switch to mpa or sliiing (not sure how many i's;) then you shouldn't worry about the commitment.

The guys at TMM have been grea to work with. I can't speak for the alternatives, but I'm a happy customer.

iSpyCams · 02-18-2015, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny B!

I imagine should someone come up with a killer alternative they'll also need to come up with a migration method if they want to take any Nats clients away. So unless you plan to develop your own stats system or switch to mpa or sliiing (not sure how many i's;) then you shouldn't worry about the commitment.

The guys at TMM have been grea to work with. I can't speak for the alternatives, but I'm a happy customer.

There is a csv export button in the affiliates admin and the member admin so I don't see what the big deal on migration is.

I am sure there is a method for redirecting the links as well, you most likely won't be able to retain any affiliate tracking without nats but changes come at a price. Besides you'd be hard pressed to find a reason to switch away from it unless you're just throwing in the towel.

In the rare case that you really had to get away you could just give your affiliates a few months to get set up in your new system and swap out links and run 2 systems concurrently during the transition. Sure they would bitch about the transition but the ones who really matter would take the time to adapt.

We're talking about something that has probably never actually happened and most likely won't, but hypothetically it's not the end of the world. You can export most of the key data from nats with a single button - well, 2 of them.

Kenny B! · 02-18-2015, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompousjohn

There is a csv export button in the affiliates admin and the member admin so I don't see what the big deal on migration is.

I am sure there is a method for redirecting the links as well, you most likely won't be able to retain any affiliate tracking without nats but changes come at a price. Besides you'd be hard pressed to find a reason to switch away from it unless you're just throwing in the towel.

In the rare case that you really had to get away you could just give your affiliates a few months to get set up in your new system and swap out links and run 2 systems concurrently during the transition. Sure they would bitch about the transition but the ones who really matter would take the time to adapt.

We're talking about something that has probably never actually happened and most likely won't, but hypothetically it's not the end of the world. You can export most of the key data from nats with a single button - well, 2 of them.

I'm sold, sign me up

The Porn Nerd · 02-19-2015, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny B!

I'm sold, sign me up

Me too. LOL Thanks for your advice!!

AmeliaG · 02-22-2015, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jel

been a fair while since I used NATS from an owner POV, but as an affiliate, it goes something like this, which does benefit the program owner also:

#1 is I want to see what urls *aren't* making sales. ccbill stats for example, and NATS, is like checking all your stats manually versus using statsremote. click click and you can drill down a multitude of ways/levels, and just as 1 example:

I send 100k to ccbillprogramhere.com from a whole bunch of blogs, galleries, spam, social media, whatever..
It shows that I do 1:5000, and I see a handful of referring urls to see where the sales came from
I fuck that program off, and go elsewhere

I send those to natsprogramhere.com from the same sources..
I see that those 20 sales come from 5k worth of traffic, and am actually doing 1:250 with the right audience/landing page
I take a look at where the rest of that wasted traffic is coming from/going to, and see if I can tweak all that, knowing that I can get a fantastic EPC with the right course

So, I either tweak that traffic that's being wasted, change a lander/tour destination, wording, USP, whatever, and get my sales up with that portion of traffic, or I send it elsewhere (which in any case can obviously be you the beneficiary sponsor, as much as you can be the 'losing' sponsor as it were). Even if I send that 95k elsewhere eventually, you keep the traffic that works, rather than having it cut off because an affiliate with many different sources can't keep track easily with eg ccbill, the same way he can with NATS tracking.

------

As the owner, you can drill down far more to see where traffic is coming in from, and what kind of traffic is converting, what tour pages are doing the biz, and stuff that I honestly can't even remember. Chuck in the time factor waiting for ccbill admin to load, the clunky as fuck navigation, and there's just a few things off the top of my head at 1.30am when my brain isn't at it's sharpest lol.

I've never been one of the true whales in the biz, though I was a pretty decent sized shark, and these days I don't even cut it as a minnow lol, but as I said earlier, whales for the most part reject eg ccbill programs right off the bat. Shit tracking isn't what the big traffic guys want to deal with, especially these days where eg media buying is all about keeping on top of your data at every level.

Thanks for this post. Very very interesting insights.

As an affiliate, I definitely love the NATS referrer stats. I've just always made less with programs once they migrated to NATS. Some of that might just be industry trend, but it makes me groan when I see a cheery email about a switchover.

The Porn Nerd · 02-22-2015, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeliaG

Thanks for this post. Very very interesting insights.

As an affiliate, I definitely love the NATS referrer stats. I've just always made less with programs once they migrated to NATS. Some of that might just be industry trend, but it makes me groan when I see a cheery email about a switchover.

That's interesting because the majority of the feedback I have been getting is affiliates make MORE with NATS Programs. This may be due to PPS over CCBill Revshare?

Also it's possible to have both NATS and CCBill, and many say they like this too since NATS gives better reporting than CCBill. So your post surprises me somewhat.

I wonder if the majority of NATS Programs are in fact PPS over Revshare. Maybe that's a big factor.

AmeliaG · 02-22-2015, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

That's interesting because the majority of the feedback I have been getting is affiliates make MORE with NATS Programs. This may be due to PPS over CCBill Revshare?

Also it's possible to have both NATS and CCBill, and many say they like this too since NATS gives better reporting than CCBill. So your post surprises me somewhat.

I wonder if the majority of NATS Programs are in fact PPS over Revshare. Maybe that's a big factor.

I expect that you are correct PPS is a factor. Some types of ROI math are easier with PPS.

I personally tend to choose revshare for anything I promote.

I just can't think of a single program where I made more after they migrated.

And I can think of quite a few where I made less or they went under or they stopped paying their NATS bill so their links stopped working etc.

Harmonizer · 02-24-2015, 12:23 AM

I have also been asking this question for 6 years...

Kenny B! · 02-24-2015, 09:30 AM

Nats isn't magic, you won't make more just because you switched. Reality is you'll make less off the bat because of the cost to modify every join page and to integrate.

If you use the tools they offer to cascade, use geo targeted join options, use the stats and data within the reporting system to your advantage then you will surely make more.

02-15-2015, 12:57 PM	#4
DVTimes xxx Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 31,544	NATS 4.1 \| Wouj Webmaster Site __________________ The Affiliate Program

02-15-2015, 01:25 PM	#6
x12media Ohhh Snap! Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Earth Posts: 276	Well nats is not a merchant or payment gateway so you would still need ccbill or merchant accounts etc. Now , the affiliate and tracking etc are top knotch , and I don't think anything even comes close . __________________ Gotta love sexy ass people!

02-15-2015, 02:37 PM	#10
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,524	I believe the migration should be smooth, especially if you migrate your CCBill affiliates to credit old links. As an affiliate, I don't sign up for new NATS programs. Among other things, I've seen too many programs migrate and then close or slow pay. __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

02-16-2015, 11:26 AM	#20
srockhard Retired Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: PDXXX Posts: 1,976	You should give Sliiing serious consideration. I use Sliiing on JerkNetwork and NATS on RodneyBucks. I use my own merchant account as well as 3rd party. Hit me up if you want to chat. __________________ Piper Pines

02-16-2015, 12:17 PM	#21
arock10 Confirmed User Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,218	I switched from ccbill to nats cause I was sick of waiting for ccbill stats interface to load. That was enough for me Feel free to hit me up if you want some more details, also you don't need a merchant account. You should already be cascading within ccbill to another third party biller anyway otherwise you are just losing money there __________________ Sup

02-15-2015, 12:48 PM	#1
The Porn Nerd Living The Dream Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Inside a Monitor Posts: 19,490	If You Switched To NATS: Questions If you run a Program and have paysites and switched from a 3rd party processer to your own merchant account and are now running NATS I want to hear from you. Some questions for you: 1. The transition - huge pain in the ass or relatively smooth? 2. How did you handle the move with your affiliates? 3. Did many of your affiliates re-signup under NATS or did you lose some? 4. Do more affiliates promote your Program now that you are with NATS? 5. Are your affiliates happier now with NATS? 6. Are you happy you made the switch or regretting it? And the Most Important question of them all: 7. Are you making more money now having switched to NATS? Please share your experiences. I am sure there are many Program Owners in my position wondering the same thing. Thanks in advance everyone! __________________ My Affiliate Programs: Porn Nerd Cash \| Porn Showcase \| Aggressive Gold Over 90 paysites to promote! Skype: peabodymedia

02-15-2015, 12:49 PM	#2
Harmon ( ͡ʘ╭͜ʖ╮͡ʘ) Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 20,000	Congratulations! You've made my list! Also, congratulations on not having a clue. Also, fuck you. We'll talk soon. Douche canoe.

02-15-2015, 02:28 PM	#9
Jel Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 6,904	NATS is 'just' aff tracking, and going on your past posts how pretty much all your traffic is via tubes/type-ins, you're way better off sorting out MIDs than worrying about nats. Though also, NATS is very sweet, and if you have a lot of affs, or are starting a program with a view to getting affs other than tubes, is the way to go. Webmasters stuck in 2005 say "I'll only use ccbill" etc, whales will look at ccbill and mark it as a con rather than a pro (though don't generally send to revshare anyway, so I'm not saying a switch to NATS will see all the big hitters flock to your program). It pisses all over eg ccbill though, like a rolls royce pisses all over a skoda.

02-15-2015, 02:51 PM	#11
American Psycho Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,068	It only makes sense if you have decent sales volume. Its a bunch of extra work and $.

02-15-2015, 04:58 PM	#13
ITraffic Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 2,726	when you start a new program and network of sites just use nats from the beginning. get used to it, see if you like it, has any worth for you first.

02-16-2015, 02:57 PM	#23
iSpyCams Amateur Gynecologist Industry Role: Join Date: May 2009 Location: Medellin Posts: 4,436	The original reason I used nats is because of the ability to cascade and switch billers on the fly, with billers acting sketchy from time to time or adjusting scrubs and throughput without telling anyone it seemed necessary to have my billing under my own control and be able to switch it out at a moment's notice without having to get under the hood of each site. I did not expect it to be a walk in the park, and it's not. But once you get it set up it IS rock solid and doesn't throw you many surprises. The only other systems I have used were amember pro and postaffiliate pro. amember is pretty easy to set up but it's pretty useless most of the time, fails to track a good number of sales (that can be good if you're stingy with payouts, but I'm not so I hate it) and it only handles one site. Plus when I used it the reporting was minimal and required a lot of manual calculation which sucks. Post Affiliate Pro is cheap but it's strangely not that easy to set up given it's limited feature list and it does not support tracking refunds or chargebacks, even for revshare which is a dealbreaker for me. In the end it seems you get what you pay for in terms of both time AND money. __________________ - As soon as I think up a good sig it's going here.

02-17-2015, 05:35 AM	#26
[TeSiL] Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: CZ Posts: 190	Maybe try CCBILL paid program https://gfy.com/fucking-around-and-pr...dam-promo.html CCBILL paid program set for CCBILL affiliates. Ofcourse you can create in NATS own "revsahre PPS..." program with another billers. The old ccbill users are without cascade and paysite signup is redirected only to CCBILL. __________________ Czech VR

02-17-2015, 03:32 PM	#31
ZeroHero So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Westbahnhof Posts: 15,336	educational thread

02-17-2015, 06:11 PM	#32
AmeliaG Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 10,524	Other than fast-loading stats and the ability to quickly swap billers, what do folks see as the benefits of NATS? In what way does NATS directly make more money? __________________ GFY Hall of Famer AltStar Hall of Famer Blue Blood's SpookyCash.com Babe photography portfolio

02-17-2015, 10:54 PM	#35
Kenny B! Confirmed Abuser Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 5,716	I've done this multiple times and it's been well worth it. As people have mentioned knowing how to set up nats and configure the program as well as your sites is something you're probably better bringing on someone who can help that's done it before, especially with the amount of sites you operate. 1. The transition - huge pain in the ass or relatively smooth? Not a huge pain in the ass but a lot of work and attention to detail and testing is key. 2. How did you handle the move with your affiliates? Since you're with ccbill the import is handled by nats and they do this often, this should be the least of your worries. 3. Did many of your affiliates re-signup under NATS or did you lose some? All are automatically imported, no need to re-join. We noticed when notifying affiliates of the transition they see that the program is active and it reminds those that may have forgotten about you to re-visit and start promoting. 4. Do more affiliates promote your Program now that you are with NATS? Tough to say, we've been using them for so long. I don't think being on nats deters anyone. 5. Are your affiliates happier now with NATS? They have more tools and better reporting, I know as an affiliate I prefer promoting programs using Nats. 6. Are you happy you made the switch or regretting it? Eight licenses and counting;-) 7. Are you making more money now having switched to NATS? Any time you have more control over data and money you have the opportunity to make more money. Lots of pros and only one big con, once you start with Nats you're married to them and it's very, very tough to leave. With all the promo tools, stats and coded links whatever issues you may have integrating are nothing should you decide to leave. That said we see no reason to stop using nats so it's not a concern for us, but you want to know the good and the bad, so there ya have it __________________ Kenny -at- YourPaysitePartner.com Skype: kennyb514 Do business with us: Your Paysite Partner Kenny's Pennies Sticky Dollars Radical Cash Indie Bucks Stand Ahead Read My Ambush Interview Here

02-24-2015, 12:23 AM	#47
Harmonizer So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 66	I have also been asking this question for 6 years...

02-24-2015, 09:30 AM	#48
Kenny B! Confirmed Abuser Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Montreal Posts: 5,716	Nats isn't magic, you won't make more just because you switched. Reality is you'll make less off the bat because of the cost to modify every join page and to integrate. If you use the tools they offer to cascade, use geo targeted join options, use the stats and data within the reporting system to your advantage then you will surely make more. __________________ Kenny -at- YourPaysitePartner.com Skype: kennyb514 Do business with us: Your Paysite Partner Kenny's Pennies Sticky Dollars Radical Cash Indie Bucks Stand Ahead Read My Ambush Interview Here