BigFurry

Try paul.a and ante.c, both at ddfnetwork.com. Or the second one at webgroup-limited.com

fuzebox

Obviously I wasn't referring to Amazon (who will terminate your account or deduct fees if you don't send sales), but rather adult programs who are bombarded with time wasters.

Of course the system can be "automated", until someone wants custom promo material, the newest payment method of the week, or wants to troll the company on GFY.

Every full time staff member can require up to 10 sales a day just to cover their salary. In the era of printing money, skinning GFY, and throwing huge Internext parties this may not have been a big deal, but in 2020, having two thousand hobbiest affiliates sending the occasional sale is generally a loss leader for a mid size affiliate program

mechanicvirus

Where exactly is the barrier of entry for affiliates to send invoices to companies that pay them?

Hell there's whole programs and calendars that can even remind people.

Hey didn't GFY invent the whole "Adapt or die" bullshit? Guess it doesn't work for invoices from smaller fish.

Forkbeard

It's not a barrier to entry, although it is is a bookkeeping challenge when you have long-tail links dating back up to 18 years with hundreds of programs, most of whom don't offer any notification when you've made a sale or reached their minimum payouts of up to $1000.

But it's not a barrier to entry. That's not the objection.

The objection is that the programs use this as an excuse to keep money. They refuse to pay, offering vague excuses about vague invoicing requirements that were not met, and claiming that too much time has elapsed, so they can't possibly pay out now the free money they've been loaning to themselves, interest free, all this time. Citation: five years of posts in this thread.

So yeah, that's the objection. Nobody has a problem jumping through this hoop if there's enough money in the kitty to make it worth jumping through the hoop. But it's still perfectly possible to object to the fact that the hoop has been deployed, when the shady motive is clear.

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PorcoRosso

Some might.
But most programs just have to respect national and international laws, that are getting tighter every year (or maybe even more often).
At our own small level we've seen we're getting more and more controls from various authorities, we get questions from banks for this and that... different instances are acting to regulate money laundery, frauds, tax evasions...
A few years ago it was possible to have a few affiliates not sending proper invoices and get away with it by saying "it's not our responsibility, it's the affiliate's responsibility".
But now laws made it clear that it's our responsiblity.

Our ecosystem is changing very very fast, and imo it's for the better. The industry at large has not been benefiting from grey areas on legal aspects... and so far, what we see happening seems interesting and could clean several areas (I'm thinking mainly about cleaner credit card schemes for end users, 3D Secure and all... I know it's not the main topic but it's actually all related).

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Paul Markham

At last the truth.

So if you're not actively promoting the company and relying on galleries, articles or clips that are ancient to get the occasional sale companies have to fall over themselves to look after you.

It's not worth the affiliates time to invoice the company, but some think it's worth the companies time. One works in his kitchen the other in a building with employees.

DDF would have sat down and looked at what these affiliates are bringing in and made the decision they are not worth bothering with if they can't be bothered to see if they made a sale. Because the rebills aren't flooding in these days

PorcoRosso is right. Here in Europe, the taxman is getting very observant of companies working online. Companies like DDF are being brought into line with offline companies.

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BigFurry

It could be like that but it's not really the case. They do bother, at least in my experience. They actually sent out emails to affiliates with missing invoices individually in the past so they could pay them.

I know this because I got an email like this for a website/domain I purchased. (I forwarded it to the old owner as the affiliate accounts were not included in the sale.)

Paul Markham

If they send out emails with what is owed, why is Forkbeard moaning?

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DDFCashJr

Hey guys!

Ante from DDF Cash here. First I needed to read this long thread before I could answer everything. Lots of correct AND incorrect information here so will try to address all of them.

First will start with DDF requiring invoices as a tool to keep the payments of the affiliates. This is a complete lie, and I'll explain why. Someone in one of the answers listed other programs who require invoices. If you do a deeper investigation, you'll see that all of the companies (Puffy Cash, Easy x Cash, etc) are CZ based companies as is DDF Cash, so this invoice rule wasn't "invented" by DDF, but by CZ Law. In reality, in the beginning, it took us a lot of internal resources to get Affiliates noted and used to invoicing system. With all of that, we continued to work on our invoicing policy which would be complacent with CZ law and Affiliate friendly and as a result, since last year we're Auto Generating invoices so we can pay everyone by mid of the month who had generated payouts in DDF Cash. This alone shows you that we had every intention to pay our affiliates, but like everything, there s a learning curve.

As a conclusion to all of this, we paid all the generated payouts of 2019 with our Auto Invoicing system, but at the same time we cannot pay payouts which are 2, 3 or 4-year old payouts and it's not even because we don't want to, but because the lawmaker is not allowing us.

As of Lukke's post, he said that he sent an email about OLD payouts. His 2019 payouts were regularly paid out. Also, he clearly said that he got noted several times about the pending old payouts (unfortunately they ended up in spam, but DDF or any other company really cannot control someone's inbox). Also, we were giving all the affiliates 3 months grace period (January, February, and March) of next year to catch up with the Invoices. This period was also covered with Warning emails sent out to the affiliates. He didn't mention that I was trying to reach out to him through his ICQ account (which was the only other contact besides email) which was listed, but I got no reply there as well. And besides all of this, there is a clear history of News inside DDF Cash News section which is warning all Affiliates to claim the payout as well as Huge Pop Up which was in DDF Cash during these 3 months warning everyone to send the invoice.

With all of this, I'm not sure what we can do else to grab the attention of the affiliate to invest 30 seconds in the document which would help us both be happy and cooperative.

I understand that this Invoice thing is not really understandable to US-based people, but as PorcoRosso said... EU law is getting tight and in order for us to be able to pay any affiliate and keep our business, we need to play by the rules.

Lastly, shout out to BigFurry for acknowledging our efforts to play by the book and keep both affiliates and lawmakers happy. Not sure what's your site, but appreciate the honesty.

I'm not as active on this forum as I probably should be, but will keep an eye on this thread in case anyone has any questions or mean comments.

Have a great day all!

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DDFCashJr

And one last thing I forgot

This theory that programs don't care about affiliates who're sending small amount of joins is not correct, at least in our case.

We treat all of our affiliates the same and providing with the creatives and promotion materials no matter of their size when they request it.

We're all humans and we get busy and forget about messages or emails sometimes, but we at DDF don't have that kind of thinking when our affiliates are concerned

Peace out all!

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TBFS

DDF is solid.
We been working with them since 2013, always been paid on time.

As for the invoicing, if you are a legit company, you should be making these anyway. Uploading them to ddf hardly takes any time at all, not sure why people have issues with making invoices.

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ladida

Your sale to gammae fell through or it's not public?

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Lukke

Hello Ante. First, thank you for your post, I've ultimately got in touch with you. The last email I received from you was from November 2019. Since that time, you (and the rest of your company) don't reply to my emails anymore. I tried to contact you from several email addresses at [email protected], but got a server response SMTP error (550 Action not taken). I've also sent email to [email protected], paul.a, melinda.m, monika.m, but NO response at all. Thus, I am forced to conversate with you this way on GFY.

The two of our companies are the Czech Republic based. So we know the situation here. In the emails I sent you I was kindly asking if we could invoice your company for "affiliate services" (or anything like this) for the 2018 payouts, which are $X,XXX worth. This is 100% legal in EU and I cannot see the reason why you cannot do this and pay us for the work we did to promote your company. As the aforementioned warning emails, all of them was coming to spam, so I discovered them in the middle of 2019 and I immediately contacted your company. Regarding ICQ - who has been still using ICQ in 2019? Moreover, NO payouts for the 2019 has been sent as well...

So please, let's solve this issue and give me the contact, please, where we can be in touch. Thanks a lot. Lukke

OneHungLo

Wow. Why would any government enact laws to dictate how and when a private company pays an affiliate? Didn't you guys kick out the commies a few decades ago?

Klen

It's EU law, not single country law.

OneHungLo

Oh OK(DDFCashJr) said it was CZ law) but regardless...what's the purpose of the government involving themselves dictating when a private company can pay someone?

Klen

Each transaction need to have paper trail , hence the reason. But it also depend on type of incorporation, for example i am on zivno so i dont need to follow such strict rules.

Forkbeard

And yet it's not -- what other program out there is baldly refusing to pay and blaming Czech or EU law "because the lawmaker is not allowing us" to make the payments?

None. The answer is none.

If they wanted to pay the money they owe, they could.

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Lukke

Exactly. It is just an excuse. Of course the Czech Republic based company can pay the invoice for the "affiliate services". Anytime. Without excuses in case they really want to pay the affiliates for their work. Particularly, when I found the lost emails in spam and contacted them few months later about this issue.

Klen

Valid point, but in this case might be simple mis-communication problem.

Lukke

Bump for the reply from Ante...

NewNick

They dont, you missed the point.

But it is really very simple.

In order to stop tax evasion and money laundering etc EU law dictates that there should be a paper trail for all transactions. Thats it. Send an invoice - get paid.

Now if a company gets an audit from their tax authority they simply need to show where the money has gone, and where it arrived from. Therefore not doing this correctly is a lot of hassle for the business owner if the tax inspector comes knocking.

So because this is GFY there is 4 pages of bitching about raising an invoice, attaching it to an email, and getting paid. Bizarrely how any of you run a business without a paper trail for your own accounting purposes is quite odd.

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Lukke

If the company really wants to pay the affiliates (even for the year 2018), the affiliate just send them and invoice NOW for the services/affiliate services and all is DONE. We are not talking about getting paid without invoices. We are tackling the issue that even the payouts from 2018 can be paid to the affiliates.

Klen

Paper trail is required for LLC and higher types of incorporation, on lower level no such requirements. On some you dont even need to issue invoice at all.

faxxaff

Why don't you guys create a shell in a jurisdiction outside of CZ to capture all affiliate payouts? That way the money is paid out and accounted for.

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Lukke

Still no reply at all from them and no payouts for 2018+2019 from DDF.

Klen

That is not really obstacle to do affiliate payouts.

OneHungLo

DDF said:

If I owed someone from 2 years ago they could just invoice me and I'd pay it.

He's saying he can't.

So apparently it's not that simple. And it looks like you missed the point.

Forkbeard

Or, he's simply not telling the truth. He hasn't offered any evidence except for vague armwaving about local laws that do not seem to bind other programs in his jurisdiction. Whereas the alternative explanation -- that he does not wish to pay the money -- is a well-known phenomenon in this industry, and thus by far the more probable explanation.

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King Mark

Is that real? There's a law that prevents him from paying his debts, even if he wants to?

That's a hell of an excuse.

OneHungLo

That's what I'm saying. How odd is it that a government gets involved in your business to say you can't pay an invoice if it's X amount of days old?

And that's exactly what DDF is saying. It's against the law for him to pay an invoice that 2 years old.

Klen

Well, if i would have same issue, not being able to pay old invoice because it is too old, i would simply request new invoice with new date.

King Mark

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he says his dog ate his invoice software and he can't legally get another copy or some shit.

Klen

True, if someone truly want to do something, they will find way to do it.

OneHungLo

OK, so CZ law would prevent you from paying an invoice from say 2017/2018? But that person could just issue a new invoice and date it today and they could pay it?

Lukke

We are not talking about paying a 2-year-old invoice. We are talking about paying an invoice from 2020, newly issued, for the amount owed. There is absolutely no excuse why they couldn't pay that. Of course they can. If they want.
Of course.

Klen

I dont know exact details about paying old invoices, but dont see any obstacle for issuing new invoice.

3rdshiftvideo

Bingo.

fertooos

They used to be one of the good ones.

Lukke

So... Everything ended up with NOT paying for the 2018 payouts. They just simply say that they "cannot" do it. Since we have been both the Czech Republic based company, there is absolutely no problem to issue the new invoice to be paid NOW. They just don't want to pay it. All the rest are just excuses. That's all.

digitalfantasies

The dutch programs I promote also require this, but the process is automated, the invoices are automatically generated and paid.

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fertooos

They used to be one of the good ones.

semnate

For those who were promoting DDFCash and are now promoting SexCash, are you still getting paid for the rebills from the DDFCash affiliate program?

I cant find any breakdown of payments in SexCash, who has paid me, but they wont respond to me breaking down the payment.

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Sex Cash

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