The Iraq war cost us 2 trillion dollars = 28 years of free college education.

[crockett]

According to Sanders, to give free college education to the masses, it would cost about $70/billion a year. The Iraq war cost tax payers $2/Trillion and counting (let's be honest we are still there fighting ISIS)

So GFY brainics.. which do you think would have made a better return on its investment?

The neoconservative war mongering way or the socialist way of giving out free educations?

[crockett]

This topic makes dicks angry...

[crockett]

The simple fact is America can't afford Republican presidents and their war mongering hysteria..

[Joshua G]

considering our colleges now graduate people that are illiterate, cant be productive at school without a "safe zone" i would suggest the answer is not as obvious as you may think. how many students graduate with 100K debt & cant find work that can pay that back? is that what your talking about? the return on investment on that? Lulz. the only winner in college education is wall street banks: un-writeoffable student loans!

i would render them both useless money pits with no ROI, they are both equally giant rackets.

[crockett]

In before gfy consertives make up excuses..



Oh wait too late but hey at least I'm in before Robbie blames Obama and Hillary!

[bronco67]

Someone has already attempted to play devil's advocate for universal college not being worth a try. Anyone else want to take a stab and look like an asshole? You can be sure the usual suspects of gloom, doom and idiocy will be in here soon to argue for their indefensible position on the subject.

[Rochard]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

considering our colleges now graduate people that are illiterate....

I think there might be some truth in this.

I went to college to study computer science with one woman who had no interest in computers what so ever. She was studying computers because it was a "good field" to be in. Our final week of school and she asked me what a pop3 email was and how to set one up.

Some people just shouldn't go to college.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think there might be some truth in this.

I went to college to study computer science with one woman who had no interest in computers what so ever. She was studying computers because it was a "good field" to be in. Our final week of school and she asked me what a pop3 email was and how to set one up.

Some people just shouldn't go to college.

What Dingdong institution are you referring to as a college? Certainly not an accredited one.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by Rochard

I think there might be some truth in this.

I went to college to study computer science with one woman who had no interest in computers what so ever. She was studying computers because it was a "good field" to be in. Our final week of school and she asked me what a pop3 email was and how to set one up.

Some people just shouldn't go to college.

But if college were free then there would be more student competition and then maybe someone else would have gotten into the school and she wouldn't.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

What Dingdong institution are you referring to as a college? Certainly not an accredited one.

I was wondering that also.
Sounds like he went to a "tech school" for a night course.

[L-Pink]

Fuck both parties.

How about we not spend money on both the above topics, war/funding college for others, and let taxpayers keep some of their own money.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Joshua G

considering our colleges now graduate people that are illiterate, cant be productive at school without a "safe zone" i would suggest the answer is not as obvious as you may think. how many students graduate with 100K debt & cant find work that can pay that back? is that what your talking about? the return on investment on that? Lulz. the only winner in college education is wall street banks: un-writeoffable student loans!

i would render them both useless money pits with no ROI, they are both equally giant rackets.

the answer isn't obvious between the Iraq war or sending 100s of thousands of Americans to gain a higher education? come on.

[woj]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

the answer isn't obvious between the Iraq war or sending 100s of thousands of Americans to gain a higher education? come on.

it isn't...

for starters there is NOTHING stopping anyone from getting higher education now...

so all this is just making up an imaginary problem, then attempting to solve it...

it's also "false dilemma", like L-pink said few posts earlier, why not consider that having neither war or free higher education might be best? why does it have to be one or the other?

[directfiesta]

'' ... but spending it there ... so you do not have to spend it here ... ''

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by woj

it isn't...

for starters there is NOTHING stopping anyone from getting higher education now...

so all this is just making up an imaginary problem, then attempting to solve it...

You seem to think there was some benefit to the Iraq war, maybe Isis makes sense to you rather than getting more Americans educated.

The imaginary problem? Have you seen how many times uneducated Americans are blamed for shit around here?

[pornguy]

ok. Take away the war and the jobs created by it and find that same amount of money to pay for School.

Not that Im for war. Especially one that is for money.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by woj

it isn't...

for starters there is NOTHING stopping anyone from getting higher education now...

so all this is just making up an imaginary problem, then attempting to solve it...

it's also "false dilemma", like L-pink said few posts earlier, why not consider that having neither war or free higher education might be best? why does it have to be one or the other?

I think higher education lowers crime.
People with/pursuing college degrees have more things to do then hang on the corner and wait for crime.

[woj]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

You seem to think there was some benefit to the Iraq war, maybe Isis makes sense to you rather than getting more Americans educated.

The imaginary problem? Have you seen how many times uneducated Americans are blamed for shit around here?

it's a pointless comparison... iraq war being a poor investment in no way makes free education a good investment... these are completely unrelated issues...

and yea, imaginary problem, those that wanted to get education got it since the beginning of time... not clear how it's a problem now...

[Grapesoda]

Originally Posted by crockett

According to Sanders, to give free college education to the masses, it would cost about $70/billion a year. The Iraq war cost tax payers $2/Trillion and counting (let's be honest we are still there fighting ISIS)

So GFY brainics.. which do you think would have made a better return on its investment?

The neoconservative war mongering way or the socialist way of giving out free educations?

Sucks for sure

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by woj

it's a pointless comparison... iraq war being a poor investment in no way makes free education a good investment... these are completely unrelated issues...

ok, now that we are on the same page with that part, are you aware of the education crisis in America? did you know that America has given away free college in the past and still does?

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by pornguy

ok. Take away the war and the jobs created by it and find that same amount of money to pay for School.

Not that Im for war. Especially one that is for money.

Jobs created by Iraq war???

Are you kidding me?

- Reserve officers had to close businesses or leave it half-ass to go active duty for the war.

- Dead and disabled soldiers don't have a job.

- Rebuilding Iraq ain't a job that anyone ever did; just look at the place.

- Retail sales slump because people become insecure about the economy; so layoffs follow.


OH WAIT!


You mean all the jobs created when we hired the Iraqi insurgents to stop fighting us.

U.S. Government Paying Former Insurgents?

[woj]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

ok, now that we are on the same page with that part, are you aware of the education crisis in America? did you know that America has given away free college in the past and still does?

I must have missed the memo, what "education crisis" with higher education? Last I checked, most colleges and universities have to reject applicants for lack of space... at top universities acceptances rate might be as low as 5%... how does offering free education solve that?

[crockett]

Originally Posted by woj

I must have missed the memo, what "education crisis" with higher education? Last I checked, most colleges and universities have to reject applicants for lack of space... at top universities acceptances rate might be as low as 5%... how does offering free education solve that?

No one is talking about free education at Harvard. He's talking about community and state colleges.

To go to a state college as a resident it's an average of $10/year out of state residents it's $20/k but that of couse doesn't cover food/housing.

Meaning to get a 4 year degree a student today is shelling out around $60k at the lowest.. does that seem reasonable to you?

[MFCT]

Yeah, bad things came from the Iraq War. But good things came from it, too. For example, a big chunk of that $2 trillion went to Dick Cheney's old company Haliburton, of which I'm sure he held huge holdings of stock.

And other good things came from it, too. Big oil companies like Exxon and BP were allowed to get oil from Iraq for free. And then, either put it on the market at $150 per barrel, or sell gasoline at prices as though they buying oil at $150 per barrel. Either way, they made a killing, as did their stockholders. Do you think Texas oilman George "mushroom cloud" Dubya might have owned some stock in oil companies?

As we know, It turned out that Iraq didn't have WMDs. And had nothing to do with 9-11. I'm sure Dubya and Cheney cried, "Oops!" all the way to the bank.

[in2cams]

Look at it from the other side, how much do the US govt save sending poor people to war?

[woj]

Originally Posted by crockett

No one is talking about free education at Harvard. He's talking about community and state colleges.

like these from Illinois?

University of Chicago
5801 S Ellis Ave, Chicago, IL 60637 30,304 2,670 8.8%
Northwestern University (Northwestern)
633 Clark St, Evanston, IL 60208 32,060 4,912 15.3%
Robert Morris University Illinois (RMC)
401 S State Street, Chicago, IL 60605 4,080 857 21.0%
Chicago State University (CSU)
9501 S. King Drive, Chicago, IL 60628-1598 5,219 1,495 28.6%
Rockford University
5050 E State St, Rockford, IL 61108-2311 1,074 440 41.0%
Saint Xavier University (SXU)
3700 W 103rd St, Chicago, IL 60655 10,490 5,307 50.6%
University of St Francis (USF)
500 N Wilcox St, Joliet, IL 60435-6188 1,706 877 51.4%
North Park University (NPU)
3225 W Foster Ave, Chicago, IL 60625-4895 3,961 2,073 52.3%
Concordia University-Chicago (CUC)
7400 Augusta, River Forest, IL 60305-1499 3,692 2,009 54.4%
Millikin University
1184 W Main St, Decatur, IL 62522-2084 3,906 2,153 55.1%
Lewis University
One University Parkway, Romeoville, IL 60446-2200 5,432 3,035 55.9%
Northern Illinois University (NIU)
1425 W. Lincoln Hwy., Dekalb, IL 60115-2828 25,914 14,545 56.1%
Illinois Institute of Technology (IIT)
3300 S Federal St, Chicago, IL 60616 2,840 1,618 57.0%
Lake Forest College
555 N Sheridan Road, Lake Forest, IL 60045-2399 3,684 2,110 57.3%
Illinois Wesleyan University (IWU)
1312 N Park St, Bloomington, IL 61702-2900 3,556 2,076 58.4%
Augustana College
639 38th St, Rock Island, IL 61201-2296 5,831 3,421 58.7%
Western Illinois University (WIU)
1 University Circle, Macomb, IL 61455 10,554 6,260 59.3%
University of Illinois at Springfield (UIS)
One University Plaza, Springfield, IL 62703-5407 1,469 878 59.8%
DePaul University (DePaul)
1 E Jackson Blvd, Chicago, IL 60604 19,957 11,948 59.9%
Dominican University (Dominican)
7900 W Division Street, River Forest, IL 60305 3,502 2,100 60.0%
Northeastern Illinois University (NEIU)
5500 N Saint Louis Ave, Chicago, IL 60625-4699 5,291 3,181 60.1%
Illinois College
1101 W College Ave, Jacksonville, IL 62650-2299 2,560 1,569 61.3%
Eastern Illinois University (EIU)
600 Lincoln Avenue, Charleston, IL 61920 7,881 4,879 61.9%
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign (UIUC)
601 E John Street, Champaign, IL 61820-5711 33,203 20,716 62.4%
McKendree University
701 College Rd, Lebanon, IL 62254-1291 1,617 1,017 62.9%
North Central College (NCC)
30 N Brainard St, Naperville, IL 60540 4,082 2,598 63.6%
Monmouth College
700 E Broadway, Monmouth, IL 61462-1998 2,973 1,912 64.3%
Greenville College
315 E. College Ave, Greenville, IL 62246 1,723 1,132 65.7%
Bradley University (BU)
1501 W Bradley Ave, Peoria, IL 61625-0001 8,969 6,004 66.9%


most of these are shitholes that I wouldn't want my dog to attend, and yet even given that fact only 2/3rds of applicants are accepted

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by woj

I must have missed the memo, what "education crisis" with higher education? Last I checked, most colleges and universities have to reject applicants for lack of space... at top universities acceptances rate might be as low as 5%... how does offering free education solve that?

well, just off the top of my head, the USA is the only country on the planet where the current generation is less educated than the previous gens. that's enough of a red flag i can stop right there, nevertheless, we're replacing service sector jobs with technology, displacing millions of uneducated workers at an exponential rate. Other countries are creating intellectual property faster than US too. Student debt is spiraling out of control. we don't have enough technology educated people to compete on a global level.
= crisis.

and Sanders compared the 2 to make a bigger point- our priorities are fucked up. he's not advocating giving out free ed willy-nilly.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by woj

I must have missed the memo, what "education crisis" with higher education? Last I checked, most colleges and universities have to reject applicants for lack of space... at top universities acceptances rate might be as low as 5%... how does offering free education solve that?

By filling up more colleges before they have to close.

College closings chart - Business Insider



The acceptance rate can't be used the way you just used it because people apply to a dozen colleges; not just one.

Your admission rate argument is like the chick with big boobs saying nobody needs to get fixed up for the prom because she's been asked by 100 guys and 15 girls.

Now if all those other dateless girls had offered free pussy???

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by in2cams

Look at it from the other side, how much do the US govt save sending poor people to war?

None, because we don't have a draft for poor people and even if we did, we'd still have to pay them to die.

[woj]

Originally Posted by blackmonsters

By filling up more colleges before they have to close.

The acceptance rate can't be used the way you just used it because people apply to a dozen colleges; not just one.

Your admission rate argument is like the chick with big boobs saying nobody needs to get fixed up for the prom because she's been asked by 100 guys and 15 girls.

Now if all those other dateless girls had offered free pussy???

yea, that's a real tragedy... 4 colleges out of thousands.... whole .1% got closed down in 2013.. not to mention we have no idea what the reason for closing was.... no reason at all to assume it was because of lack of applicants...

I don't agree, acceptance rate is a valid measure... someone who isn't accepted at a worst college, is unlikely to get accepted anywhere else...

if we are going to go with dating example... better analogy is... if you can't get laid with a 300lb overweight woman with a drinking problem... you aren't getting laid at all no matter how many other chicks you try...

[in2cams]

Why the fuck do you expect the US govt to pay for your education? Please die in silence in a foreign country you never learned to spell, for a freedom you never felt, you cash hoe.

[kane]

Does it have to be a zero sum game? Can't someone in charge spend 30 minutes on Google and determine the most in-demand fields and fields where graduates actually get jobs and build careers and then make those areas of study free? That way if you want to attend college and get a degree in 15th century pottery, women's studies or Greek literature, you are free to do so, but you will have to pay for it yourself. If you want to study computer science,nursing, business, engineering etc then it is free. I would also extend that to certain trade schools that teach in-demand skills like auto and diesel mechanics, plumbers, etc.

[OldJeff]

Free College to me just means I have to pay for someone else to get an education

NOTHING from the government is free, someone is paying for it, just not the people benifiting

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by kane

Does it have to be a zero sum game? Can't someone in charge spend 30 minutes on Google and determine the most in-demand fields and fields where graduates actually get jobs and build careers and then make those areas of study free? That way if you want to attend college and get a degree in 15th century pottery, women's studies or Greek literature, you are free to do so, but you will have to pay for it yourself. If you want to study computer science,nursing, business, engineering etc then it is free. I would also extend that to certain trade schools that teach in-demand skills like auto and diesel mechanics, plumbers, etc.

This is what I was referring to earlier when I posted Sanders plan isn't about sending folks to college willy nilly.

[Jman]

Fucking Obama.... oh wait... :P

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by in2cams

Why the fuck do you expect the US govt to pay for your education? Please die in silence in a foreign country you never learned to spell, for a freedom you never felt, you cash hoe.

Seriously; you could use a free trip to college.

[woj]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

This is what I was referring to earlier when I posted Sanders plan isn't about sending folks to college willy nilly.

that's something that actually sounds 100x more reasonable... but it's not quite what OP implied...

if it was setup as for example a budget of $50B/year (or whatever the right amount is) for scholarships for top students in select fields, then it would be pretty difficult to argue against...

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by woj

that's something that actually sounds 100x more reasonable... but it's not quite what OP implied...

if it was setup as for example a budget of $50B/year (or whatever the right amount is) for scholarships for top students in select fields, then it would be pretty difficult to argue against...

Right on, I agree, at first glance the implication is that 2 trillion would have been spent on free education if it weren't spent on Iraq.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

Free College to me just means I have to pay for someone else to get an education

NOTHING from the government is free, someone is paying for it, just not the people benifiting

Meanwhile you are ok with paying to have someone else kid die in a war?

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by woj

that's something that actually sounds 100x more reasonable... but it's not quite what OP implied...

if it was setup as for example a budget of $50B/year (or whatever the right amount is) for scholarships for top students in select fields, then it would be pretty difficult to argue against...

just doing a bit of math in my head, the 2 trillion = 28 years free college works out to ~$70 billion a year so you are point in your thinking about it.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by crockett

Meanwhile you are ok with paying to have someone else kid die in a war?

Quite trolling. He said/implied nothing of the sort.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Quite trolling. He said/implied nothing of the sort.

Well the truth be told, if all you guys who question every little detail about Obamacare and Benghazi had done the same about Iraq we never would have been there. It was very clear the case for war with Iraq was based on bullshit if you just took a bit of time to look...

So is it really not that?

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by crockett

Well the truth be told, if all you guys who question every little detail about Obamacare and Benghazi had done the same about Iraq we never would have been there. It was very clear the case for war with Iraq was based on bullshit if you just took a bit of time to look...

So is it really not that?

What the hell off topic shit are you rambling about now! Quite trolling people to get attention. You put words into OldJeff's mouth that he never said just to give yourself attention.

[blackmonsters]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

What the hell off topic shit are you rambling about now! Quite trolling people to get attention. You put words into OldJeff's mouth that he never said just to give yourself attention.

Quit misspelling quit.

[Joshua G]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

the answer isn't obvious between the Iraq war or sending 100s of thousands of Americans to gain a higher education? come on.

yes. on paper, it is obvious investing in free higher education is a winner vs needless war.

my point is more about the state of that higher education. College is a semi-debacle today. Students who work hard at studies, they will be fine. But the average students? & much worse, students who take on giant debt, & drop out/fail out of college? They are the worst off, imprisoned in a financial jail with no degree.

Not clear public financing is the answer, when the cost model in colleges is out of control. The administrations are like double in size per student they used to be, for what? i cant think of anything useful so much top end bureacracy does at colleges. Much of these jobs are patronage jobs, political jobs. Like that loony professor in Missou who called for muscle to oppress a journalist, & the professor is a journalism professor! Those are the types of people making big paychecks, & tenure, at college.

college is a disgraceful mess, & until the bloat is taken out, not worth public investment, as the money will certainly be squandered on studies on how lady gagas music influences pop culture, crap like that.

& none of this is partisan, like how colleges have majors to train students to be professional victims & make money accusing people of racism & sexism all their life. & how colleges themselves create thousands of jobs for professional victims to endless perpetuate social division in our country, focusing forever on past struggles instead of advancing solutions. solutions would put the PC careerists out of a job, so think of the PC people like defense contractors, who need endless culture war to make war profits.

college is good for getting high, getting drunk, & getting laid. The gateses & the zuckerbergs & the steve jobs types have better things to do, & drop out.

[crockett]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

What the hell off topic shit are you rambling about now! Quite trolling people to get attention. You put words into OldJeff's mouth that he never said just to give yourself attention.

I didn't put words in anyone's mouth, just asked a question.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by L-Pink

Fuck both parties.

How about we not spend money on both the above topics, war/funding college for others, and let taxpayers keep some of their own money.

Because spending money on things like education is better economically. Higher educated population is more creative for future economies and business, lowers crime, employs more people in better jobs, Lowers the need to import high-skilled workers or export jobs.

The next Zuckerberg, Page, Brin, Gates, Jobs, etc. Will be the ones who can turn the US around, or stop it from declining.

Give the money to the people and they will buy more imports from China. So why not invest in your countries future?

[#23]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Because spending money on things like education is better economically. Higher educated population is more creative for future economies and business, lowers crime, employs more people in better jobs, Lowers the need to import high-skilled workers or export jobs.

The next Zuckerberg, Page, Brin, Gates, Jobs, etc. Will be the ones who can turn the US around, or stop it from declining.

Give the money to the people and they will buy more imports from China. So why not invest in your countries future?

You aren't even from this country

[just a punk]

Originally Posted by crockett

The Iraq war cost us 2 trillion dollars = 28 years of free college education.

You can not afford a free education because the American budget has no money for it. So a useless war in the shittiest place on the planet is the only entertainment for the US taxpayers - adopt or die, peasant.

[L-Pink]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The next Zuckerberg, Page, Brin, Gates, Jobs, etc. Will be the ones who can turn the US around, or stop it from declining.

Like any of the above listed would be going to a free community college.