visa lowered chargeback ratio to 1%???

[rabbit]

can anyone confirm this? how will this affect the market since the 2% has been the norm for so long? i'm sure we'll see more scrubbing on behalf of third party billers, but hopefully some good can come out of this- namely the nail in the coffin to all the shady operators still out there...

[rabbit]

ok got a confirmation. this is HUGE news, but all this board cares are stupid trump and pussy posts. this will kill a lot of the dating, will bring ad prices significantly down across the board and hurt tubes. will hurt also small paysites and affiliates who relied too much on promoting aggressive products.

[robwod]

Originally Posted by rabbit

i'm sure we'll see more scrubbing on behalf of third party billers, but hopefully some good can come out of this- namely the nail in the coffin to all the shady operators still out there...

Agreed, though honestly, the reason there are shady operators at all is that they find a way to circumvent and thresholds (rotating billers and merchant accounts, for example to keep percentages lower per account).

Originally Posted by rabbit

ok got a confirmation. this is HUGE news, but all this board cares are stupid trump and pussy posts.

Really, it should come as little surprise that this board is nowhere near business-centric. I think it's pretty evident that the demographics at GFY are largely non-business oriented. Realistically, this forum in particular should just be called Fucking Around and remove the business part of it. There's other places to discuss business, among business minded people, that I am sure you are aware of. It's important news, so I would suggest posting it to there instead of here.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by robwod

A
There's other places to discuss business, among business mind people, that I am sure you are aware of. It's important news, so I would suggest posting it to there instead of here.

Where?

OP , It's been 1% since January. You also have a dollar amount threshold. I.e. 1% & $75k or 1% & 100 fraud transactions. My understanding is if you don't meet BOTH 1% & the other, you're ok.

[Kenny B!]

Visa USA has always been 1%, the drop from 2% to 1% only affects EU merchants. For any third party billers that were already using Visa US it's business as usual, which I believe are most of the big guys.

The new chargeback threshold comes into effect as of July 1st but will take into account transactions made in June.

[The Porn Nerd]

Actually this is HUGE news. Even if it "only" involves EU customers it will have an overall deadening effect. In fact, I have noticed the scrub (using CCBill) is WAY up in June compared to May.

The problem, of course, is if you use a third party biller than your account is likely to get 'swept up' with other CB-heavy accounts so even if your account is 'clean' you may still feel the effects.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Actually this is HUGE news. Even if it "only" involves EU customers it will have an overall deadening effect. In fact, I have noticed the scrub (using CCBill) is WAY up in June compared to May.

The problem, of course, is if you use a third party biller than your account is likely to get 'swept up' with other CB-heavy accounts so even if your account is 'clean' you may still feel the effects.

How do you come to that conclusion? Seriously

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

How do you come to that conclusion? Seriously

Things are intertwined even when they shouldn't be. I could be wrong, would not be the first time, but lowering the ratio from 2% to 1% is not a good thing I think.

Also, I mean that 3rd party billers are running their merchant accounts through one of two 'adult friendly' banks. So basically EVERY adult transaction is being run through those banks. So if a biller has accounts with a lot of CBs do you think that would affect your individual account or no?

[sandman!]

here comes the scrub

[atom]

Originally Posted by rabbit

ok got a confirmation. this is HUGE news, but all this board cares are stupid trump and pussy posts. this will kill a lot of the dating, will bring ad prices significantly down across the board and hurt tubes. will hurt also small paysites and affiliates who relied too much on promoting aggressive products.

This was talked about months ago on here. Your merchant bank rep/sales rep at 3rd party biller should have also informed you months ago.

[LeRoy]

Big news definitely!

[C H R I S]

Time to get more MIDS

[bns666]

Originally Posted by rabbit

can anyone confirm this? how will this affect the market since the 2% has been the norm for so long? i'm sure we'll see more scrubbing on behalf of third party billers, but hopefully some good can come out of this- namely the nail in the coffin to all the shady operators still out there...

offtopic, i see rabbitsreviews.com has been redesigned since my last visit which was who knows when, it looks awesome

[Barry-xlovecam]

You are wrong it is not the shady operators -- it's the shady customers (fraudsters) behind VPN, tor and other proxies.

Using 3ds, IP greylisting, sms verifications and other methods, including fingerprinting customers at the access points to our PCI-DSS billing servers, has reduced our chargeback ratio to near 0.20 % now. (.0020)

3rd party billers are suckers for scammers -- we are not. We can't afford to be.

You would be surprised at all the fraud being hidden behind VPN and proxies at well known data centers. Rouge customers with cloud server accounts mainly.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

You are wrong it is not the shady operators -- it's the shady customers (fraudsters) behind VPN, tor and other proxies.

Using 3ds, IP greylisting, sms verifications and other methods, including fingerprinting customers at the access points to our PCI-DSS billing servers, has reduced our chargeback ratio to near 0.20 % now. (.0020)

3rd party billers are suckers for scammers -- we are not. We can't afford to be.

You would be surprised at all the fraud being hidden behind VPN and proxies at well known data centers. Rouge customers with cloud server accounts mainly.

DWW that nobody talks about. Not rouge "customers" bro. You probably know that though, just being polite in present company MCCCXXXVII

[Barry-xlovecam]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

DWW No body talks about. Not rouge "customers" bro. You probably know that though, just being polite in present company ;)

DWW is on the list too. Mommy chargebacks are a big item too. But cloud servers that fraudsters are hiding behind are 70% of the issue. Detect those properly and the chargeback rates drop phenomenally.

Ripping off porn sites is easy R&R for hackers. Also, lot of fraud is with set-ups by models and their boyfriend carders too in the cam business. You should see how some of these models protest when they don't get the money that their carder boyfriend spent and we reversed the transaction before the chargeback occurred -- we have people monitoring for unusual or illicit behavior around the clock.

BIN errors a USA card used in Europe or Asia always needs 3ds verification -- the big problem is with the participating banks; my own Bank of America credit card will not verify for the reason that Bank of America (my ''issuer'') does not use Master Card Secure. A lot of US banks are not participating in 3ds (Secured by VISA and Master Card Secure). Western European banks are more apt to verify.

I force new customers to 'virtually' bend over and spread their cheeks then stuff the proverbial rubber gloved hand up their ass, with as much lube as possible, on intake -- if you don't you will get ripped off with online transactions.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

DWW is on the list too. Mommy chargebacks are a big item too. But cloud servers that fraudsters are hiding behind are 70% of the issue. Detect those properly and the chargeback rates drop phenomenally.

Ripping off porn sites is easy R&R for hackers. Also, lot of fraud is with set-ups by models and their boyfriend carders too in the cam business. You should see how some of these models protest when they don't get the money that their carder boyfriend spent and we reversed the transaction before the chargeback occurred -- we have people monitoring for unusual or illicit behavior around the clock.

BIN errors a USA card used in Europe or Asia always needs 3ds verification -- the big problem is with the participating banks; my own Bank of America credit card will not verify for the reason that Bank of America (my ''issuer'') does not use Master Card Secure. A lot of US banks are not participating in 3ds (Secured by VISA and Master Card Secure). Western European banks are more apt to verify.

I force new customers to 'virtually' bend over and spread their cheeks then stuff the proverbial rubber gloved hand up their ass, with as much lube as possible, on intake -- if you don't you will get ripped off with online transactions.

With cams I can see this being a much larger problem than with paysites. The problem with 3rd party billers - not really a "problem", just goes with the territory - is you do not have any control over the scrub of your account. You have to rely on their settings (which you do not know what those are) and hope for the best.

With paysites you get the mommy CBs but also the people who Join, cancel, download everything they want in a few days, then CB. Fun times.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

DWW is on the list too. Mommy chargebacks are a big item too. But cloud servers that fraudsters are hiding behind are 70% of the issue. Detect those properly and the chargeback rates drop phenomenally.

Ripping off porn sites is easy R&R for hackers. Also, lot of fraud is with set-ups by models and their boyfriend carders too in the cam business. You should see how some of these models protest when they don't get the money that their carder boyfriend spent and we reversed the transaction before the chargeback occurred -- we have people monitoring for unusual or illicit behavior around the clock.

BIN errors a USA card used in Europe or Asia always needs 3ds verification -- the big problem is with the participating banks; my own Bank of America credit card will not verify for the reason that Bank of America (my ''issuer'') does not use Master Card Secure. A lot of US banks are not participating in 3ds (Secured by VISA and Master Card Secure). Western European banks are more apt to verify.

I force new customers to 'virtually' bend over and spread their cheeks then stuff the proverbial rubber gloved hand up their ass, with as much lube as possible, on intake -- if you don't you will get ripped off with online transactions.

Much respect . I can see you're deep into it too wont go into it in any more detail here though but stay tough man!

[LovinNothin]

The real issue is in the months and years ahead. 3rd party billers are simply rolling out refunds now at the drop of a hat because they have to keep the chargebacks even lower now.

Once consumers find out how fucking it easy it is to buy a membership and get a FULL REFUND with only a simple email to customer service, webmasters will notice a sharp rise in refunds.

It won't take long before all the Millennials figure it out. Most major 3rd party billers are already rolling out refunds to these whiny little bitches that "Buy, Jerk Off, Refund."

BJOR will be more common in the months and years ahead.

Adult is truly a dying industry.

[plaster]

Originally Posted by C H R I S

Time to get more MIDS

You are the only person in this thread that has a clue.

[Konda]

Originally Posted by rabbit

can anyone confirm this? how will this affect the market since the 2% has been the norm for so long? i'm sure we'll see more scrubbing on behalf of third party billers, but hopefully some good can come out of this- namely the nail in the coffin to all the shady operators still out there...

It's been discussed here before when the third party billers informed their clients about it.


Visa US was always 1%, it only affects EU merchants

The 1% only counts if you have over a 100 Chargebacks. If you have 20 Chargebacks and are at 1.5% it's not an issue. So if you have 100 Chargebacks at 1% that means you must do 10,000 transactions in a month. Eg 333 transactions a day (sales + upgrades/rebills).
So it only affects the bigger companies that process in EU, who all knew about this for months and I'm sure they all have been working on solutions (like getting more MIDS) with their processors/acquirers.

[Konda]

Originally Posted by rabbit

hopefully some good can come out of this- namely the nail in the coffin to all the shady operators still out there...

This won't affect the shady operators, because they already spread their transactions over lots and lots of MIDs to stay under count. So it won't have any impact on them.

Originally Posted by rabbit

will hurt also small paysites

Won't affect small paysites either, they come nowhere near 100CBs/month

[Jigster715]

Originally Posted by Kenny B!

Visa USA has always been 1%, the drop from 2% to 1% only affects EU merchants. For any third party billers that were already using Visa US it's business as usual, which I believe are most of the big guys.

The new chargeback threshold comes into effect as of July 1st but will take into account transactions made in June.

That explains 0 ccbill sales so far for June.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by LovinNothin

The real issue is in the months and years ahead. 3rd party billers are simply rolling out refunds now at the drop of a hat because they have to keep the chargebacks even lower now.

Once consumers find out how fucking it easy it is to buy a membership and get a FULL REFUND with only a simple email to customer service, webmasters will notice a sharp rise in refunds.

It won't take long before all the Millennials figure it out. Most major 3rd party billers are already rolling out refunds to these whiny little bitches that "Buy, Jerk Off, Refund."

BJOR will be more common in the months and years ahead.

Adult is truly a dying industry.

Not based on reality at all. You must be high, and that's ok

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by LovinNothin

The real issue is in the months and years ahead. 3rd party billers are simply rolling out refunds now at the drop of a hat because they have to keep the chargebacks even lower now.

Once consumers find out how fucking it easy it is to buy a membership and get a FULL REFUND with only a simple email to customer service, webmasters will notice a sharp rise in refunds.

It won't take long before all the Millennials figure it out. Most major 3rd party billers are already rolling out refunds to these whiny little bitches that "Buy, Jerk Off, Refund."

BJOR will be more common in the months and years ahead.

Adult is truly a dying industry.

Millenials don't buy shit now. It's the aging rich Baby Boomers who still buy the porn. Adult won't be dead until they are all dead, or about another 20-30 years.

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Millenials don't buy shit now. It's the aging rich Baby Boomers who still buy the porn. Adult won't be dead until they are all dead, or about another 20-30 years.

Millenials sure as hell do buy! Not sure what kind of content you're marketing or where but step up your game and upgrade yourself, I'd like to see you survive too

[LovinNothin]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Not based on reality at all. You must be high, and that's ok

Don't believe me?? Go buy ANY adult site membership that uses a major 3rd party biller....and in a couple days, simply email them and ask for a refund because you didn't like the site. I guarantee you will get a refund. It's so fucking easy now. Refunds are as easy to get as signing up. Billers are cutting down on charge backs and would rather refund then ignore the member. It's easier to refund then to risk the charge back.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by LovinNothin

Don't believe me?? Go buy ANY adult site membership that uses a major 3rd party biller....and in a couple days, simply email them and ask for a refund because you didn't like the site. I guarantee you will get a refund. It's so fucking easy now. Refunds are as easy to get as signing up. Billers are cutting down on charge backs and would rather refund then ignore the member. It's easier to refund then to risk the charge back.

What do you do in adult?

Anyone who does this is likely to be blacklisted from joining any other site processed. Sucks for anyone with a legit complaint, but these people get scrubbed going forward.

[AmeliaG]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Where?

OP , It's been 1% since January. You also have a dollar amount threshold. I.e. 1% & $75k or 1% & 100 fraud transactions. My understanding is if you don't meet BOTH 1% & the other, you're ok.

I miss you and your excellent posts there.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Millenials sure as hell do buy! Not sure what kind of content you're marketing or where but step up your game and upgrade yourself, I'd like to see you survive too

I'd like to see me survive too. LOL

[Konda]

Originally Posted by LovinNothin

Don't believe me?? Go buy ANY adult site membership that uses a major 3rd party biller....and in a couple days, simply email them and ask for a refund because you didn't like the site. I guarantee you will get a refund. It's so fucking easy now. Refunds are as easy to get as signing up. Billers are cutting down on charge backs and would rather refund then ignore the member. It's easier to refund then to risk the charge back.

That is nothing new, it has always been like that. It was the same 10 years ago.

[XMaster]

We have always remained below the 1% anyway. It won't change anything for us.

[adultmobile]

Originally Posted by XMaster

We have always remained below the 1% anyway. It won't change anything for us.

Below 1% here too.
I guess someone it isn't below however. Sorry for them?

[MikeAMS]

Yes its true.. It changed to 1%

Originally Posted by adultmobile

Below 1% here too.
I guess someone it isn't below however. Sorry for them?

Originally Posted by Konda

That is nothing new, it has always been like that. It was the same 10 years ago.

Do a chargeback 1 time and see if you will be able to subscribe again..
In most cases your data will be stored and several billers nor banks will not accept you anymore..

[rabbit]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Where?

OP , It's been 1% since January. You also have a dollar amount threshold. I.e. 1% & $75k or 1% & 100 fraud transactions. My understanding is if you don't meet BOTH 1% & the other, you're ok.

thanks for the clarification! i guess the news is not as dramatic as i thought.

also glad to see some good discussion going! there's hope for gfy!

[rabbit]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Millenials don't buy shit now. It's the aging rich Baby Boomers who still buy the porn. Adult won't be dead until they are all dead, or about another 20-30 years.

i think chaturbate was quoted saying that most of their customers are millenials. tap into that generation and your future is secured

[rabbit]

Originally Posted by bns666

offtopic, i see rabbitsreviews.com has been redesigned since my last visit which was who knows when, it looks awesome

thanks, you visited it on the first day of the redesign

[Barry-xlovecam]

Accept (with any MID) 10 credit cards issued to women's names and see how many friendly chargebacks you get. LMAO

Use 3ds where you can and stop fucking around.

Third party billers, ALL OF THEM, will protect their MIDs, AT ALL COSTS.
Third party billers are not as sophisticated as they claim.

Don't get thrown under the bus.

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Use 3ds where you can and stop fucking around..

It's not just hackers that fuck you up, there is a ton of legit customers that later file for a CB under bullshit pretense.

(didn't like the site, didnt get what expected, didnt understand the terms, etc)

[JesseQuinn]

Originally Posted by Muad'Dib

It's not just hackers that fuck you up, there is a ton of legit customers that later file for a CB under bullshit pretense.

(didn't like the site, didnt get what expected, didnt understand the terms, etc)

yeah, find the same, that's why I fight cb's so hard. friendly fraud is the real threat, I find at least. real fraud is usually pretty easy to spot if peeps know what to look for

all the fraud scrubs in the world can't prevent assholes from not wanting to pay for what they buy/enjoy, all we can do is fight back

[Bladewire]

50 REVERSED CHARGEBACKS!

Originally Posted by JesseQuinn

yeah, find the same, that's why I fight cb's so hard. friendly fraud is the real threat, I find at least. real fraud is usually pretty easy to spot if peeps know what to look for

all the fraud scrubs in the world can't prevent assholes from not wanting to pay for what they buy/enjoy, all we can do is fight back

At first I was pleasantlty surprised at how many friendly fraud chargeback threats are thwarted with a promise to go to collections and be reported on their credit.

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

50 REVERSED CHARGEBACKS!



At first I was pleasantlty surprised at how many friendly fraud chargeback threats are thwarted with a promise to go to collections and be reported on their credit.

Fuck, I got two $100 chargebacks today and I am PISSED. The fuckers went in, downloaded everything, then turned around and CB'd. So how would I dispute this and 'fight back'?

[Bladewire]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Fuck, I got two $100 chargebacks today and I am PISSED. The fuckers went in, downloaded everything, then turned around and CB'd. So how would I dispute this and 'fight back'?

Have either subscribed with you before? Check their history. Do you have online disputes setup with your merchant account or do you get paper disputes by mail?

[Raja]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Fuck, I got two $100 chargebacks today and I am PISSED. The fuckers went in, downloaded everything, then turned around and CB'd. So how would I dispute this and 'fight back'?

I can help with this...email me raja((at))chargebackhelp.com

[The Porn Nerd]

Originally Posted by Bladewire

Have either subscribed with you before? Check their history. Do you have online disputes setup with your merchant account or do you get paper disputes by mail?

No, this is through CCBill. Never joined before, either one, but will now be blacklisted according to CCBill. Still, two in one days hurts. LOL

Originally Posted by Raja

I can help with this...email me raja((at))chargebackhelp.com

Email sent.

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Fuck, I got two $100 chargebacks today and I am PISSED. The fuckers went in, downloaded everything, then turned around and CB'd. So how would I dispute this and 'fight back'?

If you're with CCbill then you're shit out of luck.

We are fighting CB pretty sucessfully on our own MID. Got a template and a script set up that just enters their info, with prooof of their signup IP, website login IP and some screenshots of their location - basically proof that the card was not stolen, like most of them claim - "transaction unrecognized" my ass. (then .zip it up and send to our aquirer)

about 70% cases we win

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

Email sent.

That won't be much of a help. They just try catch the upcoming CBs because they have a deal with a few banks and before the CB happens you have a chance to refund that transation - they see it and send you a warning, so basically you escape the VISA penalty fee for a CB, but still have to refund.

Such companies dont have many banks in their loop, so you catch very few CBs. Not worth bothering IMO.

[plaster]

Originally Posted by Muad'Dib

If you're with CCbill then you're shit out of luck.

We are fighting CB pretty sucessfully on our own MID. Got a template and a script set up that just enters their info, with prooof of their signup IP, website login IP and some screenshots of their location - basically proof that the card was not stolen, like most of them claim - "transaction unrecognized" my ass. (then .zip it up and send to our aquirer)

about 70% cases we win

You need to check your second chargebacks. I think you will find it stunning how many of those wins then come back as a second chargeback further dinging your account $25 for each one. Mastercard and Visa calls a second chargeback differently but never fear, they are the same thing and your gateway people LOVE that second Fee they collect.

[Struggle4Bucks]

Originally Posted by The Porn Nerd

but will now be blacklisted according to CCBill

That's racist man...

[Struggle4Bucks]

Originally Posted by Mikey Verotel

Do a chargeback 1 time and see if you will be able to subscribe again..
In most cases your data will be stored and several billers nor banks will not accept you anymore..

That's interesting... could you tell us how that works?

Do billers share personal/cc- info of people that made a cb? Is it a database accesible for all 3rd party billers? Do they implement these infos in their systems?

And will they also be not able to buy mainstream anymore after a cb on an adult site?
Losing all creditcard credibility after 1 cb sounds unbelievably...