state of affialites

[GoldBarsXXX]

any still out there?
I just sent a mailer for our new site and most bounced back!

[xXXtesy10]

eat shit

[jscott]

mostly game over

[Barry-xlovecam]

affiliates

[st0ned]

The game has changed for sure. Not surprising about the email bounces -- especially if your email list has been building for years.

While there may not be as many active affiliates within the industry anymore there are still a lot making some good money.

[Paul Markham]

The good ones have moved onto promoting mainstream sites. The bad ones are working for minimum wage.

[PornDiscounts-V]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The good ones have moved onto promoting mainstream sites. The bad ones are working for minimum wage.

And yet here I am...

What site?

[TeenCat]

man, there is still tons of good affiliates, but i think they have found out that promoting everything doesnt make money, so they are choosing very well what to promote, so, have luck and btw looks like i have also not received the email about new site, so maybe problem on your side, or i am also one of those who lost their original signup email after all those years

[Matyko]

Me and my company are still focusing on being affiliates. We do well, actually very well. And I do know other classic affiliates who do well, so no worries, those who have mad skills and can keep working those are still in the game.

I would love to promote some of your sites, will hit you up and let's talk.

[faxxaff]

I think most affiliates are blind to newsletters, emails and forum posts. Cherry pick them and provide customized offers.

[j3rkules]

Well, we are still here. You probably have an old mail list.

[CurrentlySober]

Originally Posted by xXXtesy10

eat shit

yes please

[BigFurry]

We're not an affiliate of GoldBarsXXX. But in general, we're happy to get affiliate newsletters, and we are interested in them.

I also know many other guys who actually add the galleries when the programs send them in email.

Yet in my experience most programs don't bother, or don't send them out regularly. It's a shame. We're often not even informed when they open a new site. How can they not announce that?

If you're not sending regular newsletters to affiliates, you're missing out.

Another request to programs, please use the news section of NATS too (or any other news log). When you start a new site, add it there, with the date included.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by vvvvv

And yet here I am...

What site?

The middle ones are still here.

[GoldBarsXXX]

Hijab Radicals

ok guys, hit me up personally and I'll put your payout percentage up to 65%.
How about that?

[theS2O]

Originally Posted by GoldBarsXXX

Hijab Radaicals

ok guys, hit me up personally and I'll put your payout percentage up to 65%.
How about that?

You've got great content! Goodluck!

[redwhiteandblue]

Originally Posted by TeenCat

man, there is still tons of good affiliates, but i think they have found out that promoting everything doesnt make money, so they are choosing very well what to promote, so, have luck

I think this is right.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The good ones have moved onto promoting mainstream sites. The bad ones are working for minimum wage.

that´s an error - the good ones where in mainstream and come over to adult more and more.

but these are affiliates and not webmasters. they do not generate traffic - they buy it and have the professional hands to make something out of it.

that´s where the big money is made today and not from webmasters who try to be trafficgenerators and marketers at the same time.

i work a lot with media buyers and media buying companies and had a nice conversation this day with one of them. they start to become active with adult but make "ONLY" 1 million per month with that by now (what is 20% of their complete revenue) but their knowledge can be adapted to adult and that´s why i understand that an affiliate if today is not a traffic generating webmaster.

i was in november in BKK on the AWasia and there where 3000 attendees but i saw maybe 2 or 3 what are running own websistes.

the goal of today is to understand that traffic-generator and affilialtes are 2 complete different things (but one need the other).

i still do not understand why "traffic-webmasters" still try to monetize their traffic with the time, options and knowledge they have. that is a game what can´t be won.

greetings

thommy

[Look Chang]

I got your mail but I'm not sure that this kind of site is appropriate in the atmosphere of latent war with these terrorists. I'm out.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

that´s an error - the good ones where in mainstream and come over to adult more and more.

but these are affiliates and not webmasters. they do not generate traffic - they buy it and have the professional hands to make something out of it.

that´s where the big money is made today and not from webmasters who try to be traffic generators and marketers at the same time.

They don't generate traffic, they redirect it. A generator creates something. As for marketing, there's very little of that done other than spin.

i work a lot with media buyers and media buying companies and had a nice conversation this day with one of them. they start to become active with adult but make "ONLY" 1 million per month with that by now (what is 20% of their complete revenue) but their knowledge can be adapted to adult and that´s why i understand that an affiliate if today is not a traffic generating webmaster.

What media are you buying? Porn films, stories, etc?

The business has changed a lot. Back in 1998 there were lots of media buyers who were creating sites and redirecting the offline porn buyers into online porn buyers then redirecting these people to their sites. Amongst them were a few real marketing people who looked at creating a product with attributes that could be marketed.

Now as you say people buy traffic from a free porn media site to sell something else and occasionally the media they had just jerked off to.

As for big money, that depends on one's perspective of what big money is.

[Jigster715]

Site looks good. We'll push it for 65%... How to get that rate?
P.s. No ICQ.

[Smart Fred]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The good ones have moved onto promoting mainstream sites. The bad ones are working for minimum wage.

You forget, the good ones try to not spend too much time here...

[Smart Fred]

Originally Posted by GoldBarsXXX

any still out there?
I just sent a mailer for our new site and most bounced back!

You run a really special niche... so not all affiliates can promote it... and the ones who do with success don't need your emails.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

They don't generate traffic, they redirect it. A generator creates something. As for marketing, there's very little of that done other than spin.

if you read what i wrote that is EXACTLY what i wrote.

What media are you buying? Porn films, stories, etc?

the word "media buyer" represents someone who is buying traffic from different media. one of the media is the internet. other media can be TC, magazines, radio etc....

The business has changed a lot. Back in 1998 there were lots of media buyers who were creating sites and redirecting the offline porn buyers into online porn buyers then redirecting these people to their sites. Amongst them were a few real marketing people who looked at creating a product with attributes that could be marketed.

again these are not media buyers - these are webmaster affiliates what are rarely existing in this days because they can´t be focused on traffic generating AND monetizing this traffic with modern methods.

in 1998 we are where stupid and it was enough to know 10% about traffic generation and 10% of marketing this traffic. as long nobody is around who is better that works. but as you said times have changed. out there are now guys who understand 100% from traffic generation because they take this as their fulltime job. and other guys have no clue how to generate traffic but they know how to make money from it.

Now as you say people buy traffic from a free porn media site to sell something else and occasionally the media they had just jerked off to.

As for big money, that depends on one's perspective of what big money is.

i think you are out of time a bit you should look a bit around and then you see how the world have really changed.

i was in november in bangkok on the affiliate world asia. there where 3000 people there one site was the trafficgenerating gruop and the other group the traffic monetizing (media buyers).

only the entrance fee to this exibition is around 500 dollars in the cheap version and you would be surprised how many adult guys i´ve saw there.
i was there already one year before and i think me and a handful others came from the porn industy. this year it was like 70% who are at least doing porn AND nonadult.

and you would even be more astonished if you could see what we sell on pornsites today.
not only gaming and gambling brings us a lot of money we are selling car tires, phones,
fashion and even WOMEN PRODUCTS. at the moment our revenue is just 20% from porn 45% from dating and 35% from products what have absoluteley NOTHING to do with porn.

and i think the revenue curve we have is not that bad, ist it?



yes paul THIS is the biz what is done today. i was creating a phrase 8 years ago what is:

SEX SELLS - BUT WHAT ?

on the stas curve you have the proof that this is true. we sell WITH porn but we do not live from porn anymore.

greetings

thommy

[BigFurry]

Originally Posted by thommy

i still do not understand why "traffic-webmasters" still try to monetize their traffic with the time, options and knowledge they have. that is a game what can´t be won.

You have a narrow view of websites making money from porn. You only see the segment that chooses to allow you to put your ads on them.

There are affiliates that get targeted traffic. They can make more money selling targeted subscriptions, than by selling their traffic for pennies to ad networks. Not to mention that these are often quality websites with a reputable brand name, which don't want to lose their loyal surfers by placing questionable/malicious/crap offers on their sites.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

You have a narrow view of websites making money from porn. You only see the segment that chooses to allow you to put your ads on them.

There are affiliates that get targeted traffic. They can make more money selling targeted subscriptions, than by selling their traffic for pennies to ad networks. Not to mention that these are often quality websites with a reputable brand name, which don't want to lose their loyal surfers by placing questionable/malicious/crap offers on their sites.

i disagree with that because i am long enough in this industry to see the changes going on.
i was starting 1997 as an affilaite webmaster when everybody sold his traffic and i made damnded good money.

i was doing my own affiliate programms from 2001 til 2012 and i made good money with it.

today i would not do one of the 2 things because i have learned that trafficmarketing have serveral ways to make money on but you have to know how.

believe me i am able to make money with gay products on straight sites the only thing i need is a mass of users. and you will never be able to generate masses.

when you are strictly looking for traffic of a niche you miss all the other preferences.

that is the same as you would state that a user from a weather site can´t be interessted in porn or cars or whatever.

sure you will have a much better CVR but from what ?
you might have 100 users and make one sale. i might have 1 million users and make 1000 sales with very different products.

if your niche is burned out you can delete all your hard build pages - i only switch in one second to another product.

have you ever seen that in a TV-commecial break of a science fiction they sell only star wars masks? porn is a magnet for millions and millions of people with ALL KIND of consumption.

and YES especially in the past few days i had a look into some stats of so called affiliate webmasters and i was crying when i saw what they make with their websites.

when i look in the stats of some of my publishers who just focus on making traffic and see 5 and 6 digit payouts every month and they do not even spend a minute in investigation what sells and what not, I ask you what YOU understand from a good affiliate income.

believe me - you do not have to explain me how internet works - i am 20 years in that biz and i always made good money. but i did not make it with concepts what are definately and logicly dead. i made it always with a far view into tomorrow.

greetings

thommy

[BigFurry]

Originally Posted by thommy

i disagree with that because i am long enough in this industry to see the changes going on.
i was starting 1997 as an affilaite webmaster when everybody sold his traffic and i made damnded good money.

i was doing my own affiliate programms from 2001 til 2012 and i made good money with it.

today i would not do one of the 2 things because i have learned that trafficmarketing have serveral ways to make money on but you have to know how.

believe me i am able to make money with gay products on straight sites the only thing i need is a mass of users. and you will never be able to generate masses.

when you are strictly looking for traffic of a niche you miss all the other preferences.

that is the same as you would state that a user from a weather site can´t be interessted in porn or cars or whatever.

sure you will have a much better CVR but from what ?
you might have 100 users and make one sale. i might have 1 million users and make 1000 sales with very different products.

if your niche is burned out you can delete all your hard build pages - i only switch in one second to another product.

have you ever seen that in a TV-commecial break of a science fiction they sell only star wars masks? porn is a magnet for millions and millions of people with ALL KIND of consumption.

and YES especially in the past few days i had a look into some stats of so called affiliate webmasters and i was crying when i saw what they make with their websites.

when i look in the stats of some of my publishers who just focus on making traffic and see 5 and 6 digit payouts every month and they do not even spend a minute in investigation what sells and what not, I ask you what YOU understand from a good affiliate income.

believe me - you do not have to explain me how internet works - i am 20 years in that biz and i always made good money. but i did not make it with concepts what are definately and logicly dead. i made it always with a far view into tomorrow.

greetings

thommy

I never questioned that you make good money, or that yours is a viable way to make a lot of money.

I simply said that it's a mistake to think that selling their traffic/ad space is the best option for all the webmasters. There are many kinds of sites out there.

I also have a website where I sell traffic. And I also own some where I never in a million years would let random ads/popunders to appear.

[GoldBarsXXX]

Originally Posted by Jigster715

Site looks good. We'll push it for 65%... How to get that rate?
P.s. No ICQ.

I've updated my signature with more contact information.
Hit me up with your affiliate id and where you're sending traffic from and I'll put
your payout percentage to 65.
Thanks,

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

if you read what i wrote that is EXACTLY what i wrote.

I quoted what you wrote.

the word "media buyer" represents someone who is buying traffic from different media. one of the media is the internet. other media can be TC, magazines, radio etc....

The word "media buyer" represents someone who is buying media. The word "trafic buyer" represents someone who is buying traffic. Then looking at stats to see how they monetise it.

again these are not media buyers - these are webmaster affiliates what are rarely existing in this days because they can´t be focused on traffic generating AND monetizing this traffic with modern methods.

Agreed. Because traffic buying is now a numbers game there's no space for marketing.

in 1998 we are where stupid and it was enough to know 10% about traffic generation and 10% of marketing this traffic. as long nobody is around who is better that works. but as you said times have changed. out there are now guys who understand 100% from traffic generation because they take this as their fulltime job. and other guys have no clue how to generate traffic but they know how to make money from it.

You are right that in 1998 people had no idea what was happening and where customers were coming from.

You keep using words that really don't apply. Generating means creating not redirecting. Marketing means showing how the product meets market needs. Not copy and pasting then uploading as much free porn as possible.

i think you are out of time a bit you should look a bit around and then you see how the world have really changed.

I know how the world has changed. Giving away something free to sell ad space is the now and future. The only problem with porn is we give away porn to sell porn.

i was in november in bangkok on the affiliate world asia. there where 3000 people there one site was the trafficgenerating gruop and the other group the traffic monetizing (media buyers).

How many were giving away the product they sell in the ratios we do?

only the entrance fee to this exibition is around 500 dollars in the cheap version and you would be surprised how many adult guys i´ve saw there.
i was there already one year before and i think me and a handful others came from the porn industy. this year it was like 70% who are at least doing porn AND nonadult.

I would be shocked if there were any porn guys there. Now we have to discuss what a porn guy is. You or me? How many porn movies have you made? A man selling eggs isn't a chicken. How much porn do you sell from the traffic you buy?

and you would even be more astonished if you could see what we sell on pornsites today.
not only gaming and gambling brings us a lot of money we are selling car tires, phones,
fashion and even WOMEN PRODUCTS. at the moment our revenue is just 20% from porn 45% from dating and 35% from products what have absoluteley NOTHING to do with porn.

Are you a gambling, dating, cars, tires, phones, etc. Traffic seller

and i think the revenue curve we have is not that bad, ist it?

How much is based on porn movie sales?

Sex sells but not very well when it's given away for free.

I don't see many people advertising porn sites on sites that sell traffic. Apart from Cams, then there up against sites like Live Jasmin who will buy direct. Here's the problem.

Why pay someone 50%-20% to buy traffic, crunch the numbers when it can be done in-house for a lot less? This is the present and future. Big companies already employ Ad Buyers who can do the job cheaper to send traffic direct to their sites. Even if affiliates send traffic to their site where they can market the products, the loss of traffic is too big and the cut insane.

Also, the company can tweak their site to help the Ad Buyer's department achieve the highest ratio. Especially in Cams and Dating. Traffic pricing is governed by the price the buyer is willing to pay. So the sellers maintain the highest price.

Others can help me here, do FB, Google, Twitter, etc. Deal direct or go through middlemen? How long before the big Tubes deal direct with the few big porn, cams, dating sites? How long the traffic minnows survive in that game is a big question.

You're not an affiliate, you're selling traffic. And trying to talk up the game. To make more sales.

See signature for a better deal.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by BigFurry

I never questioned that you make good money, or that yours is a viable way to make a lot of money.

I simply said that it's a mistake to think that selling their traffic/ad space is the best option for all the webmasters. There are many kinds of sites out there.

I also have a website where I sell traffic. And I also own some where I never in a million years would let random ads/popunders to appear.

A site has to give more value than its annoyance to maintain traffic numbers. Otherwise, it's a constant game of dropping more traffic on a site that doesn't interest people. The Big Tubes do this best, GFY is further down the list. But here it's possible to sell porn. Would we stay if it kept opening extra tabs every time we clicked?

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I quoted what you wrote.

The word "media buyer" represents someone who is buying media. The word "trafic buyer" represents someone who is buying traffic. Then looking at stats to see how they monetise it.

Agreed. Because traffic buying is now a numbers game there's no space for marketing.

https://targetjobs.co.uk/careers-adv...ob-description

You are right that in 1998 people had no idea what was happening and where customers were coming from.

and they did not know what to offer them because they did not have the knowledge and the tools for it and last not least not that mass of traffic what is needed to get informations fast and reliable.

You keep using words that really don't apply. Generating means creating not redirecting. Marketing means showing how the product meets market needs. Not copy and pasting then uploading as much free porn as possible.

a tube site IS a product - a produc what is made for free users financed by advertisers what can sell whatever on that sites if they are smart enough.

I know how the world has changed. Giving away something free to sell ad space is the now and future. The only problem with porn is we give away porn to sell porn.

what is TV doing? do they charge for watching a movie? yes some of the do but that revenue what is made with that are peanuts. the big money comes from advertising and this is like that in ALL COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD.

porn is entertainment and entertainment is a chance to sell. but you can not think that you only can sell horses in a wild wild wet movie.

How many were giving away the product they sell in the ratios we do?

well how many we get in for it?
WITH porn (as entertainment magnet) is much more made today as it was in the good old times. but there is no reason to sell scrambled eggs on a free breakfast buffet. but the free breakfast buffet will bring so many people who do spend more as this 0,25% porn budget.

I would be shocked if there were any porn guys there. Now we have to discuss what a porn guy is. You or me? How many porn movies have you made? A man selling eggs isn't a chicken. How much porn do you sell from the traffic you buy?

well i did a few movies as a producer but that was just for beiing curious how that part is done. it was never my goal to be a porn producer - i was always a marketer.

Are you a gambling, dating, cars, tires, phones, etc. Traffic seller

you missundertand the point. there is NO gambling, dating, cars, tires or phones traffic.
there are people with different needs on porn sites. they do not wank the whole day. they are 100% consumers of whatever. but this whatever is FAR MORE then the money they spend in porn.

How much is based on porn movie sales?

less than 10% - but 90% is made WITH FREE MOVIES on other products.

Sex sells but not very well when it's given away for free.

Sex sold in the human history already all. starting from fashion til parfumes and furniture.
sex is the most used intrument to sell products all over the planet.
porn is the reason why people come to websites with waht else can you get such masses?

I don't see many people advertising porn sites on sites that sell traffic. Apart from Cams, then there up against sites like Live Jasmin who will buy direct. Here's the problem.

well then give me this sites in my portfolio - i have more than enough advertisers who love to advertise there.

Why pay someone 50%-20% to buy traffic, crunch the numbers when it can be done in-house for a lot less? This is the present and future. Big companies already employ Ad Buyers who can do the job cheaper to send traffic direct to their sites. Even if affiliates send traffic to their site where they can market the products, the loss of traffic is too big and the cut insane.

if one does not have a clue of what he is doing you are right.
but there are finally people out there who are professional in that. and they make on their investment every month in average 20% ROI.
go to a bank and ask them if they can give you 240% interest.
so the question is here only HOW BIG can you invest and HOW SMART you are.

Also, the company can tweak their site to help the Ad Buyer's department achieve the highest ratio. Especially in Cams and Dating. Traffic pricing is governed by the price the buyer is willing to pay. So the sellers maintain the highest price.

i see that you do not really have a clue what this business is.
I have buyers in my network they would love to buy from me - but in GEOs where i do not have sufficient traffic.
they want to spend 100 K per month because to maintain a campaign with 100K makes the same work as one for 10 k.
do you really think that many publisher out there have such high volumes ?

AND: is a webmaster who is generating (or creating traffic) such a easy job to do another one? have you ever looked in a big trafficbroker company how many people are working ther with the advertisers? there are hunderts of them - and THIS can be done from a webmaster? no - for sure not!

Others can help me here, do FB, Google, Twitter, etc. Deal direct or go through middlemen? How long before the big Tubes deal direct with the few big porn, cams, dating sites? How long the traffic minnows survive in that game is a big question.

well this "traffic game" is at least the only one in our industrie what is growing in the past years. without this traffic game the industry would be gone already because most of the revenues from the past years are NOT from porn but GOING into pornsites.

You're not an affiliate, you're selling traffic. And trying to talk up the game. To make more sales.

See signature for a better deal.

how you know that i am not an affiliate? i have around 2000 affilaite websites out there what are still making money - but they are not worth to spend my day with it.

i have fun when i can work with masses of traffic and see within an hour what ads are converting with what landeringpages. this can´t be done on any of these affiliate pages because it would take years to get those informations from a handful of users.

the difference between you and me is, that you do not see the consumer in a porn user.
and while i write this i see a tv spot in a music show what is promoting fresh milk but i can not see one spot what is selling music there.

greetings

thommy

[Paul Markham]

I can't be bothered. you sell traffic so talking up the traffic selling game.

[Barry-xlovecam]

Thommy gets the bigger picture -- porn sites are commoditized but the user traffic is of value to others

If everybody gave away free widgets this does not mean there are no buyers for someone else's gadgets.

Unfortunately, much of the free commoditized content is also someone else's "stolen content." At some point -- there won't be anything left to steal. And at that point this scheme will collapse however the buyers are still going to be out there just somewhere else with a new content model.

An affiliate is just the contracted agent of the principal -- a sales referral agent. As song as the referrals are of a lawful nature -- money is money. Paid advertising is just another revenue model -- get over it. These are integral to building a content approval base of users -- branding.

[mechanicvirus]

How come traffic brokers are the first to get upset and super defensive in threads like this?

[SpicyM]

Originally Posted by thommy

that´s an error - the good ones where in mainstream and come over to adult more and more.

but these are affiliates and not webmasters. they do not generate traffic - they buy it and have the professional hands to make something out of it.

that´s where the big money is made today and not from webmasters who try to be trafficgenerators and marketers at the same time.

i work a lot with media buyers and media buying companies and had a nice conversation this day with one of them. they start to become active with adult but make "ONLY" 1 million per month with that by now (what is 20% of their complete revenue) but their knowledge can be adapted to adult and that´s why i understand that an affiliate if today is not a traffic generating webmaster.

i was in november in BKK on the AWasia and there where 3000 attendees but i saw maybe 2 or 3 what are running own websistes.

the goal of today is to understand that traffic-generator and affilialtes are 2 complete different things (but one need the other).

i still do not understand why "traffic-webmasters" still try to monetize their traffic with the time, options and knowledge they have. that is a game what can´t be won.

greetings

thommy

The ads I see on tubes are 99% scam , all misleading bullshit with zero value, fake dating, fake "free" sites, fake penis enlargement non-sense and probably a complete card banging crap - offering "free" cc join then charging the people $150 for xtras. These are fucking fraudsters, not affiliates.

According to our laws, they could end up in jail for fraud or be fined for misleading advertising.

FUCK THEM.. because the only thing they do is harm to this business and to honest webmasters, producers and paysite owners that offer their customers some value.

[SpicyM]

Originally Posted by mechanicvirus

How come traffic brokers are the first to get upset and super defensive in threads like this?

because scammers are their biggest money makers

[SpicyM]

Originally Posted by thommy

what is TV doing? do they charge for watching a movie? yes some of the do but that revenue what is made with that are peanuts. the big money comes from advertising and this is like that in ALL COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD.

1. TVs actually BUY rights to broadcast films and shows legally

2. TVs reach broad audience with broad age span and broad preferences + they have "slightly" better credibility than a porn site with anal prolapse / cum gagging / interracial midget fucking videos on its main page

3. TVs are under control of local agencies and if they broadcasted ads that break laws they would be fined - if this applied to TUBEs so they only advertised non-misleading ads the rates per 1k views would be 100x lower because at current rates they would not be worthy for people with honest business and real product.


GFY with this bullshit you self-created genius

[mechanicvirus]

Originally Posted by SpicyM

because scammers are their biggest money makers

It's weird because the only time I've heard such rhetoric about no affiliates existing anymore is in threads where the majority of people are traffic brokers and the likes. I dunno, this forum hit it's head or something.

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Thommy gets the bigger picture -- porn sites are commoditized but the user traffic is of value to others

If everybody gave away free widgets this does not mean there are no buyers for someone else's gadgets.

Unfortunately, much of the free commoditized content is also someone else's "stolen content." At some point -- there won't be anything left to steal. And at that point this scheme will collapse however the buyers are still going to be out there just somewhere else with a new content model.

An affiliate is just the contracted agent of the principal -- a sales referral agent. As song as the referrals are of a lawful nature -- money is money. Paid advertising is just another revenue model -- get over it. These are integral to building a content approval base of users -- branding.

100% agree on that and i do not talk about sites with stolen content, because i think that is why paul is so allergic on the word "tubesite".

@mechanicvirus: I am not getting defendiv - i do not even speak for MY business model (what might be completely different to the business models you are talking about). I just do not understand why some people always try to get yesterday back and do not see the goals of today.

I know hundersts of producers who where fighting an unsuccessful war against the tubes, loosing a lot of time and money with it. and i know hunderts of other producers who realized that they still can make money with their work. Maybe they can´t live from selling a video 10 times but they are able to sell it now 500 times.

@ SpicyM

1. TVs actually BUY rights to broadcast films and shows legally

why are you talking about stolen content? I did not!
And I can show you tonns of memebrsites who have stolen content in their members areas (because it is not that obvious that everyone can see it).

I know MANY tubesite what are spending every month more money in content licences as most of the member programms do in a year.
so do not missmatch a legal free business model with an illegal model what i can show you in every business model of the industry.

2. TVs reach broad audience with broad age span and broad preferences + they have "slightly" better credibility than a porn site with anal prolapse / cum gagging / interracial midget fucking videos on its main page

oh you think porn users are an own species with no other needs than porn?
well - i think you should research a bit deeper before you make yourself a clown.

3. TVs are under control of local agencies and if they broadcasted ads that break laws they would be fined - if this applied to TUBEs so they only advertised non-misleading ads the rates per 1k views would be 100x lower because at current rates they would not be worthy for people with honest business and real product.

i see that you really have NO CLUE of what i am talking about.

the problem of all this missleading shit is called CPM !!!!!

this is also the reason why most of this websites you are talking about will never get the chance to see a cent from other budgets.
and i will tell you why:

1. CPM advertisement is cutting the one and only advantage of internet advertising off. This advantage is called "the action". no other media in the world have this advantage to follow a users reaction and make a business model from it.

2. if an advertiser have to pay for the view he will have costs if a user clicks or not. that leads him to a wrong strategy to just getting the click and not the buyers real interest.
if he does not set up the fake-ad his competitor will do it and he end up with no clicks.

3. if an advertiser just pays the view he have to advertise in an audience where he can assume, that that biggest part of the audience would buy his product. he can NEVER advertise on a website where 95% of the users will definately not do that.
that leads to the fact, that CPM ads will always try to reach the same instinct what is assumed to the websites content. it will NEVER work with other products than that.

as i SAW this problem already many years ago and also could see how CPMs dropped in the past 15 years i realized that this is completely wrong what is done here.

I tried since 1997 to get regular advertisers on porn sites and i got a million kicks in my ass since that time.

When I made trafficfabrik there was just one thing 100% clear for me:
I would NOT WORK WITH CPM for the upper mentioned reasons.

The result I can see now is, that we are going into the right direction. We DO HAVE already a big number of advertisers what are NOT promoting porn on our sites and getting effective.

the one and only secret to get success with that is

a. to know that this advertising will show up in a mixed group of consumers with VERY different needs. so maybe 5% of this group is willing to buy product XYZ.

b. if an advertiser want to reach this group of people and have only costs on the click - he will not be so stupid to set up a fakebanner because than he will lose.

c. no publisher would sell his adspots to anybody who pays him on clicks when the CTR is low AND the price is as low as it is on a CPM-fakead. so he must be able to make at least the same money with less clicks.

and this is exactly what i did and yes we do have advertisers who are paying up to 0,30 ? for a single click. and if they set up an interessting (but not lying) ad they will get clicks and buyers and end up much cheaper as they end up in google adwords i.e.

maybe you understand now, that i am talking about something COMPLETELY different as you try to ascripe to me.

i am not this kind of person who is copying the bad and make it worse. i am well known in this industry that i was always doing things different and in my very own way by investigation the market and the things going wrong. and I think that´s why i am still here and alive.

greetings

thommy

[thommy]

Originally Posted by mechanicvirus

It's weird because the only time I've heard such rhetoric about no affiliates existing anymore is in threads where the majority of people are traffic brokers and the likes. I dunno, this forum hit it's head or something.

where did i say that affiliates are not existing anymore?

it is the opposite what i am saying! and i should know it because 90% of my customers ARE affiliates.

the only thing i said is: the money making market have split into 2 groups:

the first group is totally focused on getting traffic and spend 100% of their time to get MORE traffic.

the second group is the group who is completely focused on the marketing end.
they are buying big numbers of traffic what gives them the following advantages

1. they get paid much more because they will deliver the bigger numbers
2. they get faster informations and optimizing ideas because a big number of traffic is delievering realiable data MUCH faster
3. they safe money because the time to maintain a big campiagn with 100.000 clicks per day or more, nedds the same (if not less) worktime as a campiagn with 100 clicks per day.

if you can´t see the logic in that we do not have to discuss that further

greetings

thommy

[mechanicvirus]

Originally Posted by thommy

where did i say that affiliates are not existing anymore?

it is the opposite what i am saying! and i should know it because 90% of my customers ARE affiliates.

the only thing i said is: the money making market have split into 2 groups:

the first group is totally focused on getting traffic and spend 100% of their time to get MORE traffic.

the second group is the group who is completely focused on the marketing end.
they are buying big numbers of traffic what gives them the following advantages

1. they get paid much more because they will deliver the bigger numbers
2. they get faster informations and optimizing ideas because a big number of traffic is delievering realiable data MUCH faster
3. they safe money because the time to maintain a big campiagn with 100.000 clicks per day or more, nedds the same (if not less) worktime as a campiagn with 100 clicks per day.

if you can´t see the logic in that we do not have to discuss that further

greetings

thommy

Your condescending attitude proves that by me claiming a very vague open statement about traffic brokers means you must be feeling insecure or something. I dunno man but I wish you luck.

[Konda]

First of all LOL at Paul not knowing what a media buyer is...

As for affiliates, in the past an affiliate (publisher) hand picked a few sponsors (paysites) that he thought would convert well on his site and put up some banners and started to make money. If a new site was released or one of the ones he was using stopped converting he changed around some sites/banners. It was making good money so he didn't care that probably about 75% of his traffic was wasted, eg the majority of his traffic could make a lot more if it was sent elsewhere based on the user's profile (GEO, Device, etc). The rest of affiliates back then were mainly FHG submitters and some SEO guys.

Most adult affiliates at that time were people that got lucky at some point but did not have much business sense, they just made easy money and didn't care much about anything else while slowly the industry changed; smarter people came around, the internet grew quickly, connections got better, users got more demanding/picky, and instead of innovating and adapting they stuck with their old fashioned sites complaining about too much free content and bad ratios.

At the same time adult traffic networks came along and for the affiliates that still had traffic it made a lot more sense to put an iframe from a traffic network than an individual banner for a individual paysite site. The traffic networks made the affiliates more money again, because they fully optimize the traffic, something the affiliates didn't know how to do. Like for example why would you send a user on a mobile phone from India to a paysite where the chance he signs up is almost zero while if you send him to a one click direct carrier biller offer you can easily get a few bucks out of him.

So most of the old school affiliates that survived are now just publishers for the adult networks. There are probably not many publishers left that have high traffic sites that promote individual paysites, unless they are working in very specific niches.

So adult affiliates these days are not the same as what affiliates were in the past, now it's mainly media buyers and then some tube submitters, SEO guys, review/discount sites, top list sites, etc.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Konda

First of all LOL at Paul not knowing what a media buyer is...

The good thing is I know what an ad space/traffic buyer does. Knowing the latest handle for the job isn't that important.

Traffic buying for affiliates isn't going to last long. As big companies realise most affiliates don't have the skills to warrant their percentage. And most affiliates can't afford to buy traffic from a broker on an affiliates percentile. The other problem is the number of huge sites that will deal directly with the big companies purchasing department. Buying via brokers will become a smaller business.

This is what happens in most businesses and unless site owners can offer surfers something that makes people return to a boutique website. Traffic will decline. In porn there's another element, companies following Youtube and Facebook and saying no to porn. We know this because of the weeping every time someone like Pinterest, Tumblr type sites ban porn.

Another problem for porn is we know that Tube traffic is for people wanking off. They wank and leave, the CTR is awful, the conversion is worse. which is why traffic can be bought cheap and still not convert. If products like Thommy suggested converted on Tube sites, the big companies would deal directly without the need for a broker. Even Barry knows camsites have problems buying traffic from Tube sites.

If they could convert that traffic and produce an average cam customer of it, they could afford to flood Tubes with adverts. One only has to look to see what is regularly advertised to see where the money is from porn traffic.

The present/future for affiliates is to produce quality sites and videos. Site/videos that people want to return to over and over again.

For instance, someone with my skills and personality could open a site showing people how to shoot erotic pictures/videos of their partner. Keep it soft enough and fun to get it on YT, Vimeo, FB etc. As well as my own site.

The days of throwing mud at the wall are coming to an end. Or have they already ended?

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by thommy

re?

it is the opposite what i am saying! and i should know it because 90% of my customers ARE affiliates.

The big companies don't deal with you. Which is why you won't last. An affiliate can't compete on his small percentage with companies buying direct. Companies takes a cut on traffic an affiliate buys.

what is TV doing? do they charge for watching a movie? yes some of the do but that revenue what is made with that are peanuts. the big money comes from advertising and this is like that in ALL COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD.

You know zero about marketing in the real world.

TV ad space is at a premium when it's in the middle of a program, try that in porn and see how it works. Then there are subscription channels who are now big players.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Barry-xlovecam

Thommy gets the bigger picture -- porn sites are commoditized but the user traffic is of value to others

If everybody gave away free widgets this does not mean there are no buyers for someone else's gadgets.

Unfortunately, much of the free commoditized content is also someone else's "stolen content." At some point -- there won't be anything left to steal. And at that point this scheme will collapse however the buyers are still going to be out there just somewhere else with a new content model.

An affiliate is just the contracted agent of the principal -- a sales referral agent. As song as the referrals are of a lawful nature -- money is money. Paid advertising is just another revenue model -- get over it. These are integral to building a content approval base of users -- branding.

How many Tube sites do you advertise on?

Ad Blockers will kill Tubes long before they run out of porn. A new scene to a consumer is a scene they have never seen before.

So affiliates can afford to buy traffic on their percentile and still make money selling porn? That won't last long as big companies outbid them for ad space.

The future for all of the porn industry relies on companies promoting ad blockers to the level that makes Tubes lose money. And any other form of free porn paid for by advertising. Then we go back to selling porn, instead of giving it away to scrape pennies off 1,000s of surfers.

[SpicyM]

Originally Posted by thommy

why are you talking about stolen content? I did not!

You mentioned TV, not me. TVs are completely different environment, COPLETELY. They have credibility and they attract BROAD spectrum of users, all age categories, all religions, both genders, not just horny dudes in the age range 20-45 !!!

Originally Posted by thommy

oh you think porn users are an own species with no other needs than porn?
well - i think you should research a bit deeper before you make yourself a clown.

see above, clown

Originally Posted by thommy

i see that you really have NO CLUE of what i am talking about.

the problem of all this missleading shit is called CPM !!!!!
....

You really wrote all that just to tell me the difference between CPC and CPM? Like I did not know that.. How exactly does that change the fact that most of those advertisers are fraudsters , liars and thieves?

Originally Posted by thommy

yes we do have advertisers who are paying up to 0,30 ? for a single click

Do they promote paysites without hidden xsales and other fishy tactics? Can't really imagine how would they survive paying 30c per click selling $30 memberships... oh yeah, they all convert 1:50 like in the good old days, aren't they?

[MatureKing]

Mr. GoldBar think about regular updates

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Konda

First of all LOL at Paul not knowing what a media buyer is...

As for affiliates, in the past an affiliate (publisher) hand picked a few sponsors (paysites) that he thought would convert well on his site and put up some banners and started to make money. If a new site was released or one of the ones he was using stopped converting he changed around some sites/banners. It was making good money so he didn't care that probably about 75% of his traffic was wasted, eg the majority of his traffic could make a lot more if it was sent elsewhere based on the user's profile (GEO, Device, etc). The rest of affiliates back then were mainly FHG submitters and some SEO guys.

Most adult affiliates at that time were people that got lucky at some point but did not have much business sense, they just made easy money and didn't care much about anything else while slowly the industry changed; smarter people came around, the internet grew quickly, connections got better, users got more demanding/picky, and instead of innovating and adapting they stuck with their old fashioned sites complaining about too much free content and bad ratios.

At the same time adult traffic networks came along and for the affiliates that still had traffic it made a lot more sense to put an iframe from a traffic network than an individual banner for a individual paysite site. The traffic networks made the affiliates more money again, because they fully optimize the traffic, something the affiliates didn't know how to do. Like for example why would you send a user on a mobile phone from India to a paysite where the chance he signs up is almost zero while if you send him to a one click direct carrier biller offer you can easily get a few bucks out of him.

So most of the old school affiliates that survived are now just publishers for the adult networks. There are probably not many publishers left that have high traffic sites that promote individual paysites, unless they are working in very specific niches.

So adult affiliates these days are not the same as what affiliates were in the past, now it's mainly media buyers and then some tube submitters, SEO guys, review/discount sites, top list sites, etc.

100% agree

greetings

thommy

[thommy]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

The future for all of the porn industry relies on companies promoting ad blockers to the level that makes Tubes lose money. And any other form of free porn paid for by advertising. Then we go back to selling porn, instead of giving it away to scrape pennies off 1,000s of surfers.

hahahaaaaa - that was the fucking best idea i heard up to now.

and i am pretty sure YOU wil know how to find the good old customers on the graveyard.

my dear god how ignorant can humans be .....

what i really love in this business is that mass of ignorants because that makes it so fucking easy to make money.

it is really not that i wanted to change your mind - i just wanted to show you that there is also another view on things as to sit at home and being mad with the world because success went other ways.

but if you prefer to suffer - suffer - i don´t do it !

the music industry did so many years the same as you and lost billions. now they start to wake up and i think the guys from 15 years ago sitting at home and doubt, that this money is real.

greetings

thommy

[Google Expert]

Originally Posted by thommy

when i look in the stats of some of my publishers who just focus on making traffic and see 5 and 6 digit payouts every month and they do not even spend a minute in investigation what sells and what not, I ask you what YOU understand from a good affiliate income.

What you say is fucking retarded. Like it's that easy to get millions of hits without doing any work and just redirect it somewhere.

Go spam your shit elsewhere.