pimpmaster9000

and there you have it...I put forward a strong argument why everybody BUT russia had something to gain from this false flag and you dance around it...

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dyna mo

ruskie dick sucker argument flies in the face of the facts.

screw the facts, ruskies would never invade. ruskies would never launch missile.

pimpmaster9000

you should pray that who ever comes after pooty is as tolerant as pooty

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klinton

of course Russia doesnt support AT ALL Donbass rebels. by various clandestine means. KGB style.

NOT ALL

NEVER !!!!






from 2:35 its brilliant

klinton

it wasnt Russian military officially.

Probably one Boris on the eastern side of border "lent" some BUKs to few drunk Ivans on the western side of the Border... Ivans fucked up, Boris pretends that he wasnt there at all...

or other scenario: they stole it from UKR army and made a mess...

just a punk

Meanwhile in Russia: Russia quietly conducted the world's longest surface-to-air missile test

The second scenario is more probably. Before the accident, the Ukrainian rebels have said that they've took 1 or 2 BUK units from the Ukrainian army. Once again: the Russian army does not use one single unit of BUK. They (BUKs) are made to be used as a system of 4-5 units. The Russian army can afford a full system, while the Ukrainian rebels can't...

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crockett

You didn't put up shit for a argument.. You just try to distort facts to what you want to hear.. I posted the recordings and you try to make a mockery of it.. You are a typical dindo excuse maker..

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just a punk

Are you drunk right now? Maybe you smoke some wrong weed? Where and when I did say so? There is the official Ukrainian army which bombs its own citizens and takes down the civilian Israeli planes by a mistake and there are Ukrainian rebels that fight for their independence. Both sides use the same weapon, which was made in the USSR. Who blames the US or Somalia for that indecent?

Once again for people with a slow mind:

1) Russia tracks all the civilian airplanes and it has never took down any by mistake.
2) The Russian army does not use BUKs as single units, because BUK is a complex. If it was a single unit when... it was stolen.

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klinton

It doesnt negate my previous version at all. Maybe they just "lent" simple version of BUK, that can also strike. Why lend full system, maybe it will get lost or destroyed ? Also, more clandestine. I would bet on this version actually.

klinton

except that Korean one of course in 80s. thx Andropov !
ps. USSR I mean of course

just a punk

No, no and no.

1) It was not Russia. It was the Soviet Union and there was a Cold War.

2) The plane has been took down and there was no mistake. It was intercepted and escorted, because it has gone a wrong way. The crew has rejected to communicate on radio. So it was took down and once again, it was not a mistake like "oops". It was an absolutely knowingly action. It maybe a surprise for you, but today the magazines like "Popular Mechanics" say that the plane was guided from the US base in Alaska to light up the Soviet anti-aircraft systems (the Americans just used those Korean civilians). So it definitely was not a mistake. The crew has been warned many times and asked to get back on its course before the plane was shot down.

3) This is how a pure mistake does look like: Iran Air Flight 655 and it was not Russia... and not the Soviet Union.

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pimpmaster9000

you contradict yourself...

this:
contradicts this:

now either they had communications, in which case they knew fully well it was a civilian aircraft, in this case they would not have shot the plane down because: international shit storm...OR...they did not have communications, in which case your "Recording" of them having communications is not valid...

you can not have it both ways...decide...

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celandina

I still believe it was some rogue unit of Russian, Ukraininan or rebel forces... a big fuck up but for a minute I do NOT believe that Russians or Ukrainians did it on purpose. I believe some "rebel" group who did not have tracking capabilities just fucked up. But WTF, it is easy to blame Russia for everything, maybe the even the Hawaian volcano eruption is Russia's fault


.... and since nobody has mentioned another similar fuck up here is a quote:

It is twenty-nine years since the shootdown by the USS Vincennes of Iran Air flight 655, which killed all of the plane’s 290 civilian passengers. This shootdown of a civilian airliner by a US naval ship occurred on July 3, 1988, toward the end of the eight-year Iran-Iraq War.




So fuck up is a fuck up....and if I recall nobody went to jail for this one either.

Tasty1

i think the Russians did it. But i am not sure they did it on puprose. But for sure they don't want the truth to come out and give false information. But not only the russians are guilty, that plane shouldn't fly there in the first place, and that can be blamed on the Dutch government, the airline company and probably some more people.

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just a punk

Actually there was a post in the Internet where a guy who has headed the Ukrainian rebels wrote that Cossacks (the rebels) had took down a military aircraft (they though so). After that the message was removed, but the Internet remembers it all:



If you ask where Cossacks got that BUK, just watch the movie. If you ask who has trained them to use it, I'll say: the army. Everybody in the USSR (actually even now in Russia and the Ukraine) had to serve in army. Someones were paratroopers or marines, while others were operators of BUK, S-300 or Satan nuke launchers. Course the Ukrainian rebels were able to find the guys who can use it, but a single unit w/o a "купол" system was unable to recognize a civilian airplane. That was a real fuckup.

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just a punk

Once again (can't you read English or what?) Russians do not use BUK as a single unit. Read wikipedia at least: Buk missile system - Wikipedia

It's a system and a single rogue unit is just a part of it. The army will not use it in any case, because it's efficiently it close to zero.

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Tasty1

The russian did it, or maybe they gave the system to the rebels and/or delivered the people that where able to launch it, and than the russians knew it and are also responsible. It is that simple, the russains are to blame also. The russians are deep in it and did all things to cover it up. It was efficient, they where able to shoot down a holiday charter plane full of innocent people.

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just a punk

The problem is that there was no system. It was one rogue unit. Once again: just try to imagine the US aircraft carrier without its support battle group. The same applies to BUK, S-300 and other systems. One unit scans and tracks; one unit loads; one unit fires to cover up the group, one fires at air targets etc (4 units is an operational minimum for old models and 5 for the new ones). According to the Netherland "experts" there was just one unit, which is literally blind, can not be reloaded etc. The Russian army may be stupid, but not that much.

P.S. I don't want to say there is no Russian army/mercenaries on Donbass, but they will not use BUK like this. Will you drive a car with one wheel? They won't for sure.

This is the regular BUK system:



On this picture you can see at least 4 different trucks (only a small part of the loader is shown there). And that's why BUK is called a SYSTEM. The Netherland reports say about only one unit, which probably was stolen by the Ukrainian rebels.

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Tasty1

So the Russians didn't sent a complete system and because of that they shot an airplane full of innocent people of the air. So the Russians are also responsible, it is that simple. And as it looks now there was a russian officer in charge. Russia is quilty. I am still wondering why they shot it, maybe that was the plan also. The system came from Russia, why didn't they sent a complete system. Maybe they wanted to hit a holiday charter plane. They try to cover up and make excuses, eccuses and more excuses. And that makes everybody more mad. They are behaving as assholes.

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pimpmaster9000

yes lets just hit this civilian plane and make an international shit storm for no reason....said nobody ever...


when in doubt, simply see who had the most to gain

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just a punk

I don't think they did send anything at all. The Ukraine has a large arsenal of those and one or two unites could be stolen by their rebels. And imagine... they could be stolen in Russia too. The Americans have lost NUKES. Why do you think that Russia or the Ukraine can not lose a BUK unit?

Because Putin is a stupid Western puppet. Any normal country leader would just say: fuck off.

I don't make any excuses here as well. I just try to show you how to use a simple logic in a very simple situation. The regular Russian army will never use a single unit of BUK, so do your conclusion.

Do you think that Russian army had a problem to deliver a whole system? When they wanted to take over Crimea it was looked like this:



and like this:



When they wanted to be first in Serbia, they did this:



Maybe I should post a video from Georgia where all their US-trained army was destroyed in 5 days?

And after that some Netherland "experts" tell me about a single rogue BUK unit? Man, turn on your brain already. If the Russian army wanted to deliver BUK to the Ukraine it would deliver the complete system. A single rogue unit is something... hmm... outstanding at least.

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nico-t

Bellingcat is the 'independent' investigation bureau, partly funded by OSF which is.... drumroll... George Soros!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Society_Foundations

The same Soros who promoted and propagandized the political coup in Ukraine by the EU to steal more land, the same George Soros who paid several media in the Netherlands to air propaganda advertisements to make us vote FOR the EU and Ukraine 'association' treaty in our referendum a few years ago. Which we didn't. But still got pushed through anyway.

There are powers at work here, and they're all biased - from the JIT to Russia - and sadly anything the media spreads about the MH17 you just cannot take for granted. It is that bad. This is what happens when even the 'independent' investigation team is compromised.

This all with total disregard to the families of the victims. To this gross, poisonous elite we are nothing but pesky ants, the don't give a shit about human lives.

dyna mo

There are social media pics of the complete system vehicle convoy traveling on the highway to the launch location identified in the investigation.

just a punk

A link please. A link to pictures of that complete Russian BUK system on the Donbass. All pictures I see in Google show me one single unit with a number 321.

This is how a BUK convoy does look like: https://liveuamap.com/e/2014/27-augu...-buk-to-russia

But that's Belorussia, not the Ukraine...

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celandina

I agree a lot of people fucked up, primarily the airline flying over an active war zone....stupid!!

My point was that Russia partially guilty or not should not be blamed for all.

Tasty1

I can predict what will happen with the quilty ones; nothing. The political people in Holland will keep blaming Russia for all. Russia will be saying they don't know nothing., The people from Ukrain will say the same, and the Ameeicans destroyed their radar images.

While it was so simple, i think nobody would think this was on purpose. Better be honest and say sorry and compensate. What they are doing now will lead to nothing. It was a war zone, don't fly there, it is that simple. I don't trust anyone that was fighting in that area, all could be involved. I am sure the no Dutch politician. air control leader, or others involved will take responsibility

What could Holland do, if Russia wants Holland will lose a big part of exports. And money is what the Ducth government loves more than anything else.

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crockett

The difference is Russia doesn't want Eastern Ukraine. They wanted Crimea because of the military base but they supported the rebels to destabilize Ukraine so Ukraine can't fully rebound for quite some time..

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just a punk

Yes, Captain Obvious. Russia don't need it and I've said it above. If it was need it, it would deliver a full BUK system (and not just one) there. So the Ukrainian rebels or their regular army did it (I don't know who exactly). And you will be surprised, but there are few different groups of rebels that have their own interests. Some want independence, some want to build their Cossack country, some want to join Russia (this won't happen for sure) etc.

P.S. I've already posted a link to the article on how the Ukrainian army took down a civilian aircraft with Israel and Russian people. Russia and even the Soviet Union have never shot down a plane by mistake. Americans did that too, but we didn't.

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klinton

sorry, but there is no logic at all in your posting. Or if it is, its very TWISTED (well....)...
why Russia wouldnt give them just one unit ? Much easier to smuggle and make it clandestine.
Why not ? They use DonBass situation only to destabilize, so they dont care about full engagement anyway. Just like they did in Moldova - Transnestran REpublic.
I'm like 70 % sure that firing BUK came from Russia and it was "lent". Its like you would be still negating Russian involment in Donbass situation lol. Come on ! everyone knows that Donbass/ donieck rebels get clandestine support from Russia. Why you trying so hard to deny it ? It's like arguing with person saying that black is white. or vice versa. doesnt make much sense after some time, seriously.

just a punk

I see no logic there at all. Of course the rebels have (had?) Russian support from mercenaries to tanks and MRLS (the multiple rocket launcher systems). Why Russia was unable to deliver a BUK system as well? Why there was only one rogue unit and why the Ukrainian rebels were so proud that whey were able to capture it from the Ukrainian army hangar? As a reminder: the Ukraine uses BUKs and many of them can be find across the country.

These are the Ukrainian news: Militants of the "DNR" seized military air defense units with anti-aircraft complexes "Buk" at the end of June - use Google translate. Doesn't it explain where the Ukrainian rebels got that BUK and why it was not a system, but just one blind unit which could not recognize a civilian airplane?

Any questions?

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Alex CZ

Stop playing stupid, dumb ass. rebels had BUKs 2 weeks before it was shot downs as reported by our own government sponsored news station. Look at the date

https://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=1741703

There was also speculation that actual order came from 53-rd squadron based out of Kursk and their own BUK station in Ukraine.

https://korrespondent.net/world/3974...stvyia-po-MH17

There was number of pictures of that very same BUK transported in and out of Ukraine years before this final report.

That and twitter post and audio recordings of "shut down cargo plane" and then "I don't think we shut down cargo" alone proved the fuck up out our government.

just a punk

Right now you are the stupid one. The whole your post confirms that the BUK was captured (yes, two weeks before the incident) and used by the Ukrainian rebels (their radio recordings also confirm it). Not by the Russian army. Yes, it was transported through the Ukraine because it was captured there. One single unit #321. And there are no a single picture of the complete BUK system convoy.

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pimpmaster9000

its amusing how all the people who point fingers at russia completely deny the fact that everybody but russia had a strong motive for false flagging

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Johnyman

If you eat this sh*t - you are idiots.

They say about "novichok", they say that russian kill people in UK... but suddenly - no one killed and this gas can produce any EU country and even USA.

They say about russian cheating in sport and the only evidence is mr Rodchinkov who says that he changed probes ... but suddenly - in the court he can say NOTHING, he didnt see anything and didnt change anything.

Now they say about MH-17 before Football Worldcup and again Russia is the evil. And what about evidences? Pics in facebook and parts of rocket which was produced in 1986 year in USSR and was demolished in Russian Army in 2011 totally. They take into account information from Ukrain who was responsible for fly in this region, who should close the sky in this region, who firing on civilans RIGHT NOW (Donbass getting bombs on their houses just because they dont want to live in this buttf*cked way)!!!! But they didnt take into account any information from producer of the weapon (BUK), they didnt take information from russian locators and this info cant be forged in any way. But they have SUPER evidencs - shots from 2 US satellites (yes just accidentally there were 2 f8cking satellites right there in this time)... but they dont show them. TOP SECRET!!! WHY?

The only way to not eat sh*t - think by your head.

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TheSquealer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberi...es_Flight_1812

Russians don't shoot down civilian airlines and then lie about it.... well,...

"Initial private assessments of American military officials said the crash was caused by a S-200 that missile overshot its target drone—which had been destroyed successfully by an S-300 fired at the same time—and instead of self-destructing, locked on the passenger plane about 250 kilometres (160 mi) further away and detonated 15 metres (50 ft) over the plane."

"Russian officials dismissed the American claim as "unworthy of attention", and Russian President Vladimir Putin told the press the next day that "the weapons used in those exercises had such characteristics that make it impossible for them to reach the air corridor through which the plane was moving"

"The accident took place at the time of the combat missile launches during the joint Ukrainian-Russian military air defense exercises. The exercises were held at the Russian-controlled training ground of the 31st Russian Black Sea Fleet Research center on Opuk cape near the city of Kerch (Crimea). The accident took place at the time of the combat missile launches during the joint Ukrainian-Russian military air defense exercises. The exercises were held at the Russian-controlled training ground of the 31st Russian Black Sea Fleet Research center on Opuk cape near the city of Kerch (Crimea)."

just a punk

A Russian-Israeli flight was shot down by the Ukrainian Air Force. Not by some rebels, but by the regular Ukrainian army. And what do you try to say? When the aircraft was shot down, the Ukraine was an independent country with its own independent army. The Ukraine was not a part of Russia at that moment. Why you are so stupid? Yet another victim of the US education? Your parents were so poor to pay for a good one? Maybe you have a problem with your brain? Come to Moscow and do MRI for $30 USD. Yes, for $30, not for $3000 like in the hole you are living in.

Juts FYI: Russia does not use S-200 missiles (they are obsolete), but they are being used by the Ukrainian army.

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TheSquealer

I am saying you're full of shit, a liar and a terrible business person that spends most of his days insulting his own target market because you just can't help yourself.

I also know that like most Russians, you spend 80% of your time talking shit about people who don't ever think about you as a nation, because unless you're threatening and attacking your neighbors or cozying up to terrorist regimes, you're irrelevant. You produce nothing but shitty weapons. No one scrambles for Russian clothes or electronics or cars etc. The world is not full of Russian restaurants with lines out the door and down the block. You, as a nation are irrelevant to everyone that isn't a 3rd world country.

"The exercises were held at the Russian-controlled training ground of the 31st Russian Black Sea Fleet Research center on Opuk cape near the city of Kerch (Crimea)"

I remember the incident quite well and was living in Moscow at the time. It was a joint Ukrainian // Russian exercise under Russia supervision, at a Russian base, using shitty Soviet weapons and as soon as it happened, all Russian leadership at the scene said over and over and over that it was 100% impossible that they were responsible for knocking the plane out of the air.

If i recall correctly, they first lied about it, claiming it never went off course and hit it's target, they later admitted it went off course... then later said it was self destructed in the air in a safe area.... then later admitted it locked on to the plane but it was safely self destructed, but it was proven that it self destructed close enough to the plane to destroy the plane.

It was only when the US threatened (and later did) release satellite photos proving they fucked up and shot down a commercial airliner with their super stellar Russian weapons... that they then admitted to it. I also remember videos of the fuselage being pulled out of the water which showed the missile was self destructed (too late) before it impacted the plane, but never the less, destroyed the plane as it was too close when it exploded.

Just like the Kursk sinking and every other massive embarrassing fuckup of the Russian armed forces and shitty weapon systems... you as a nation, denied and shifted blame to "the capitalists" until the facts come out.

dyna mo

dance ruskies!


The head of the Dutch-led investigation, Fred Westerbeke, told the May 24 news conference that investigators are withholding more evidence in its possession from public release so as not to tip off potential suspects. But Bellingcat has published several reports linking the 53rd battalion to the military convoy that included the Buk missile system that the JIT says shot down MH17.

https://www.bellingcat.com/wp-conten...ort-public.pdf

https://www.bellingcat.com/wp-conten...ucks_Final.pdf

TheSquealer

"Oh perfect! I'm flying on Aeroflot" said not one person from a developed nation .... ever

just a punk

You are not my target market. Go to KFC or to MacDonald's. That's your level. And don't call me a liar, because the international commission has officially said it was the regular Ukrainian army: http://jfgieras.com/JFG_SC_2013.pdf - English, do you speak it? Start at page 11 if you don't.

Oh... too much words there, ah? Here is a special version for people like you (in a few words literally): Ukraine admits it shot down Russian airliner - Telegraph

The Ukraine has took the responsibility after the international investigation. And you still blame Russia? Why don't you blame the USA or Somalia for that then? Idiot.

So GFY and STFU, clown.

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dyna mo

keep dancing ruskie.

just a punk

Ruskie love to dance actually. Don't you? Any physical problems? The illness? Bad heredity? My condolences then...

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dyna mo

yes, that's what i mean by dancing ruskie. that you are actually dancing in this thread.

dance ruskie dance!

Johnyman

Ko-ko-kokli on the board

They are happy to jerk on any shit and they call it "peremoga"... but then.. suddenly they find shit in their pants and only person who resposible for it is Putin. So they call it "zrada".

Its endless circle of "peremoga-zrada", just wait some time and you'll see it, like it was with russian hackers and USA elections, like with Rodchenkov, like with Novichok.

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pimpmaster9000

this is how owned the squealer got:


.
.
.
.
very very owned...

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TheSquealer

Uhm... yeah. Russian anti-aircraft missiles fired from a Russian base had nothing to do with Russians. Sure thing.


"I can't wait to see the 2019 Lada's, I bet they are fucking awesome!"
- Said by no one in the first world, anywhere,... ever.

TheSquealer

The Srebrenica massacre, also known as the Srebrenica genocide (Bosnian: Masakr u Srebrenici; Genocid u Srebrenici), was the July 1995 genocide of more than 8,000 Muslim Bosniaks, mainly men and boys, in and around the town of Srebrenica during the Bosnian War.

The killings were perpetrated by units of the Bosnian Serb Army of Republika Srpska (VRS) under the command of Ratko Mladić. The Scorpions, a paramilitary unit from Serbia, who had been part of the Serbian Interior Ministry until 1991, also participated in the massacre. In April 1993 the United Nations (UN) had declared the besieged enclave of Srebrenica—in the Drina Valley of northeastern Bosnia—a "safe area" under UN protection. In July 1995, UNPROFOR's 370 Dutchbat soldiers in Srebrenica failed to prevent the town's capture by the VRS—and the subsequent massacre.


----

Reading the trial transcripts was pretty horrifying. Imagine Serbians just shooting innocent, unarmed people in front of a large pit, until their fingers got too sore to pull the trigger anymore.

pimpmaster9000

you got owned...ukraine literally admitted they shot the plane down...you are on the left, cyberseo is on the right in the blue gloves...o w n e d...look at your face in the pic...this is how you look now

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TheSquealer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...mer_Yugoslavia
Yeah yeah... and Serbia was just "fighting terrorists' because that's what they said.

So,... how many of these people on this very long list of indicted war criminals are you directly related to? Do you get the chance to visit any of them in the Hague? Was your testimony required at any trials?

pimpmaster9000

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