AdultKing

Fun?

Seriously though consider this.

Do you think video games will be developed that will be indistinguishable from reality? If that's a possibility then throw AI into the mix. Would an AI video game character subject to the laws of physics and whatever other laws are placed into the virtual world know that it was in a virtual world? Does an autonomous neural network know what created it and for what reason?

If any of the above is possible then it's also possible we just live in a simulation.

King Mark

Like I said, I respect y'all opinions. But damn, if you going to call religious people names for having faith in God, and pass yourself off as a genius for having faith in an unproven theory that makes no sense... There's a problem.

blackmonsters

Yo mamma!

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King Mark

^^^if you can't answer that, you probably shouldn't be calling people stupid lol.

Bladewire

That is logical.

You are a logical man.

You say it's scientifically impossible to explain or prove the creator.

Yet you define yourself in the human construct of religion to connect with the Divine. It's like trying to connect with nature by watching TV. Breaking from religion is like moving out of your parents house.

I walked down the path one day last summer and saw a big beautiful butterfly flying toward me 3 feet away. I put out my arm and finger out as far as I could reach, and after a few moments, she landed on my finger and connected with me for almost one minute. That is God and that is humanity connecting.

AdultKing

Things can just be, for no reason or explanation. Particles appear and disappear without a discernible reason. Unless the laws of physics don't change and unless humans escape this solar system then we're all going to die out. Then this discussion is moot.

Phoenix

is your irrational belief that it must be some supernatural power who loves to rape young girls that is fascinating. while it is is more likely that various building blocks are just common as they are easy to grow many places.

Bladewire

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femdomdestiny

Not being able to understand or simply dismissing explanations already given so many times doesn't mean they are untrue. It is your own stance.

Luckily, the majority of the world is not led by religious people. Otherwise, we would all live like your guys in deserts, praying x times per day. If humanity listened to religion, we would put all books on fire, beat females church accuse they are witches and we will still believe that earth is flat ( I know, 25 % of GFY believe in the last one).

Even if you do not have a current explanation to some question, a person has to be seriously dumb to think it is a god's work. Imagine people only a few hundreds of years seeing people flying, doctors replacing hearths, using video calls on mobile phones, people sending live streams from space or even having light without putting fire. Every single of these examples would be interpreted as God's work, of course, by dumb people not being capable to understand anything beyond blind worship of old stories and legends.

Next time when you get ill, go to a mosque or church for the help.

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TheSquealer

God works in mysterious ways...

I mean, really mysterious ways..

so mysterious in fact,...

that it looks exactly like normal, everyday random chance and that there is no such thing as the "will of God"

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King Mark

Lol, I'm going to hold my tongue and respect Paul's wishes to keep the insults out.

I don't know anything about a super natural power who rapes little girls. Seem most of you have either dealt with religiontards, have no idea what you're talking about or are just hateful people. That's your right, so have at it.

Anybody that wants to have a civilized conversation, holla at me.

King Mark

I will point out the fact that, for example squealer for instance, supports the fuck out of trump... Yet trump is a Presbyterian. That's proof squealer ain't really against religion or religious people, he's just a hateful islamophobe.

There can be no real conversation with him in this topic. And he's not the only hopocrit in this topic, but I'ma keep it civil. It's nice proving who the real hateful hipocrits are lulz.

Bladewire

Ignore them. They believe in the stuff in this video below... another shallow human construct....

King Mark

I misspelled the fuck out of hypocrite. Sheesh.

TheSquealer

SAHIH AL-BUKHARI

Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)

Narrated Hisham's father:
Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236)

Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64; see also Numbers 65 and 88)

SAHIH MUSLIM

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine..... (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309; see also 3310)

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)

SUNAN ABU DAWUD

Aisha said: The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) married me when I was seven years old. The narrator Sulaiman said: Or six years. He had intercourse with me when I was nine years old. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116)

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) married me when I was seven or six. When we came to Medina, some women came. According to Bishr's version: Umm Ruman came to me when I was swinging. They took me, made me prepared and decorated me. I was then brought to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him), and he took up cohabitation with me when I was nine. She halted me at the door, and I burst into laughter. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 41, Number 4915)

Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 13, Number 2380)

SUNAN NASA‘I

… When Hadrat Aisha passed nine years of marriage life, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) fell in mortal sickness… ‘A’isha was eighteen years of age at the time when the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) passed away and she remained a widow for forty-eight years till she died at the age of sixty-seven. She saw the rules of four Caliphs in her lifetime. She died on Ramadan 58 A.H. during the Caliphate of Hadrat Amir Mu‘awiya… (Sunan Nasa'i: English translation with Arabic Text, compiled by Imam Abu Abd-ur-Rahman Ahmad Nasa'i, rendered into English by Muhammad Iqbal Siddiqui [Kazi Publication, 121-Zulqarnain Chambers, Gampat Road, Lahore, Pakistan; first edition, 1994], Volume 1, p. 108)

SUNAN IBN-I-MAJAH

1876. ‘A’isha (Allah be pleased with her) is reported to have said: Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) contracted marriage with me while I was (yet) a six years [sic] old girl. Then we arrived at Medina and stayed with Banu Harith b. Khazraj. I fell victim to fever; then my hair (of the head fell off (and became scattered). Then they became plenty and hanged down upto [sic] the earlobes. My mother ‘Umm Ruman came to me while I was (playing) in a swing along with [sic] my play-mates. She (the mother) called me loudly. I went to her and I did not know what he [sic] wanted. She seized my hand and stopped me at the door of the house and I was hearing [sic] violently until the agitation of my heart was over. Then she took some water and wiped it over my face and head. Then she admitted me to the house when some woman [sic] of Ansar were present in the house. They said, "You have entered with blessings and good fortune." Then she (the mother) entrusted me to them. So they embellished me and nothing frightened me but Allah’s Messenger (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) (when he came there) in the morning and they (the women) entrusted me to him. On that day, I was a nine years [sic] old girl."

1877. Abdullah (Allah be pleased with him) is reported to have said, "The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) married ‘A’isha while she was a seven years [sic] old girl and took him [sic] to his house as a bride when she was nine years old and he parted with her (after his demise) when she was eighteen years old."

IBN HISHAM

He married ‘A’isha in Mecca when she was a child of seven and lived with her in Medina when she was nine or ten. She was the only virgin that he married. Her father, Abu Bakr, married her to him and the apostle gave her four hundred dirhams. (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulullah (The Life of Muhammad), translated by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, tenth impression 1995], p. 792)

AL-TABARI

In this year also the Messenger of God consummated his marriage with ‘A’ishah. This was in Dhu al-Qa‘dah (May-June 623) eight months after his arrival in Medina according to some accounts, or in Shawwal (April-May 623) seven months after his arrival according to others. He had married her in Mecca three years before the Hijrah, after the death of Khadijah. At that time she was six or, according to other accounts, seven years old.

According to ‘Ab al-Hamid b. Bayan al-Sukkari- Muhammad b. Yazid- Isma‘il (that is, Ibn Abi Khalid)- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Abi al-Dahhak- a man from Quraysh- ‘Abd al-Rahman b. Muhammad: ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan together with another person came to ‘A’ishah, and ‘A’ishah said (to the latter), "O so-and-so, have you heard what Hafsah has been saying?" He said, "Yes, O Mother of the Faithful." ‘Abd Allah b. Safwan asked her, "What is that?" She replied, "There are nine special features in me that have not been in any woman, except for what God bestowed on Maryam bt. ‘Imran. By God, I do not say this to exalt myself over any of my companions." "What are these?" he asked. She replied, "The angel brought down my likeness; the Messenger of God married me when I was seven; my marriage was consummated when I was nine; he married me when I was a virgin, no other man having shared me with him; inspiration came to him when he and I were in a single blanket; I was one of the dearest people to him, a verse of the Qur’an was revealed concerning me when the community was almost destroyed; I saw Gabriel when none of his other wives saw him; and he was taken (that is, died) in his house when there was nobody with him but the angel and myself."

According to Abu Ja‘far (Al-Tabari): The Messenger of God married her, so it is said, in Shawwal, and consummated his marriage to her in a later year, also in Shawwal. (The History of Al-Tabari: The Foundation of the Community, translated by M.V. McDonald annotated by W. Montgomery Watt [State University of New York Press, Albany 1987], Volume VII, pp. 6-7)

The Prophet married ‘A’ishah in Shawwal in the tenth year after the [beginning of his] prophethood, three years before Emigration. He consummated the marriage in Shawwal, eight months after Emigration. On the day he consummated the marriage with her she was nine years old.

etc etc etc etc

----------------

that Islams "perfect man" was a pedophile and child rapist is not in dispute.... neither is the fact that Muslims in the middle east do the same today following his sick example.

but yeah, you have no clue what i'm talking about...

sounds legit for a devout Muslim.

You are 100% full of shit.

King Mark

^^^^that is not Quran.

Those are called hadiths aka second hand stories (he say she say). Known in the Islamic world to be full of fraudlent statements... Pushed by the rightards of the Islamic world.

Now explain to us, guy who says people who practice religion are dumb, why you support religious trump?... Trump, who supports the rightards of the Islamic world who attacked us and won't ban them.

TheSquealer

I didn't say anything about the Quran. In that other thread, I said that mohammeds life and deeds inspire muslims to this day to lie, rape, tob, steal, murder, saw heads off, bomb, buy and sell sex slaves, stone women to death, throw gays off of rooftops etc etc etc ...

And nothing you say changes the facts.. because they're irrefutable.

Trump being a retard has nothing to do with mohammed being a pedophile and child rapist.

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Rochard

Bladewire

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King Mark

So you believe that Muslims are the only ones who

-Rape

-Rob

-Steal

-Kill

-Bomb

-Buy/sell sex slaves

Etc, etc, etc.

Reality is, we the only ones that know and akcnowledge we have shit bags in our community and actively work to rid them. We don't do what you guys do, and blame a whole other monster for our shit.

None of that is Quran, Quran is the only holy book in Islam. Everything else is made by fallibles and should be treated accordingly.

Bladewire

Notice you are defending man's religion.... not God

God needs no protection. God needs no defense. God is good. God is not religion.

King Mark

Everything you said is correct. God ain't about to worship himself.

I ain't defending anybody. Anybody paying attention know IDGAF about no wahabi's, isis, all that.

I've actually been to war with these guys. They took my right eye, hence my username. I am far from a terrorist sympathizer.

But we not about to ignore the hypocrisies and the fact that there have been 140,000 terror attacks committed worldwide since 1970. Even if Muslims carried out all of these attacks (which is an absurd assumption), those terrorists would represent less than 0.00009 percent of all Muslims. To put things into perspective, this means that you are more likely to be struck by lightening in your lifetime than a Muslim is likely to commit a terrorist attack during that same timespan.

There's 3 and a half million Muslims in America and 94% of terrorist attacks carried out in the United States are by non-muslims. Today, in America we are being terrorized by incel christian white boys shooting into churches, mass shooting women, shooting up schools, concerts, movie theaters, banks,suiciding themselves, etc, etc.

Everything these so called americans say about muslims, is actually being perpetrated by their very own in America lol. And they ok with that.

huey

There is nothing wrong in believing in a higher power, a creator. To chose a specific man made religion to follow is where the fault lies.

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Paul Markham

So your theory is what we don't know has to be down to god. This contradicts what bibles teach us when people knew so little it was easy to fool them with the god myth.

But that reveals gods or the people who created them to be liar. An omnipotent god doesn't make so many mistakes in creating life, evolution does. The creation of man isn't as the bibles tell us. Creation isn't as the bibles tell us.

We know how the Earth was created and it's not as the bibles tell us. But you fall back to the bit we don't know as your proof of a god.

If as the bibles tell us this god spoke to men, why did he lie r was it the men lying? Once you bring that into question you have to question everything else. Were you told what men wanted to tell you or what god said?

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Paul Markham

That's not what bibles tell us. They tell us that god created everything on Earth including man. Well why did he need so many failures to get it right?

This might explain it better https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...iverse+created

Believing in any religion is wrong when those religions claim a god told them and yet each one is wrong. Falling back to the 21st century knowledge to justify religions that have it so wrong, because they're based on knowledge from the Bronze Age. Calls into question whether you what men wanted to tell you or what a god did.

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Paul Markham

So why follow a religion that has it so wrong. Where in the Quran does it say a god only created what started the process. From there we know the story.

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Paul Markham

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...iverse+created

As for religions having shitty people in them. Were mohammed and all the scholars those?

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Paul Markham

Here's an intelligent debate. Is the god of bibles a man made creation or the being you're told?

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AdultKing

thommy

i live inside a multiculti city with hundrets of ethnic and religions and i have evidence that it works perfectly.

bullshit - that have nothing to do with the religion as more with the ethnic.

have you ever been there? did you talk to the people about the backgrounds?

i am sure you did not.

but I WAS THERE and saw with my own eyes what you are speculating.

islam is not islam.
if you talk about islam with people that converted in jail to islam they will tell you something completely else as a modern, educated muslim.

your point of view is judging the majority because of a minoroity.

it is the same as I would say that all english people are non educated idiots just because i take you as an example.

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femdomdestiny

Exactly what people in ex Yugoslavia were telling for so many years, living under official parole of "brotherhood and unity", living, working and marrying each other. Then it happened and reality showed how wrong they were. Of course, no everyone is the same but it is incredible how a small % of them can start things going in the irreversible and wrong direction.

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thommy

to take this discussion back to a point of sense I will answer you this question.

the thinking mistake is that you use 2 different answers for the same question.

this is exactly the rhetoric that makes people believe in a god because they look for someone who "made the nature" because it have to come from something but replace it with a god that suddenly does not have to come from something but exist always.

when you give the same right to the nature you do not have to go any further.

the human mind needs a beginning and an end for everything. and everything in between is called time. therefore there is a before and an after in our world view.

but this worldview is already refuted today by quantum physics.
actually we already know today that there is no such thing as time at all and never was.

however IF there is time it is dependent on space.
if the big bang theory is correct, then there was no space before it and therefore no time.
so there was simply no "before".

in the world of quantum things behave differently. things can be at different places at the same time and they can be dead and alive at the same time. these thought games like those of schrödiger´s katze are more than 100 years old and have been regarded as pure philosophy until now. quantum physics, however, has already proven them even if we don't know the reason for it yet.

there is also no logical reason why an omnipotent god would create creatures like he doesn't want them to. if he were so omnipotent then he could certainly do it perfectly.

in this new knowledge that we are just beginning to understand there is also much more of what we wanted to protect ourselves from through the image of god. because the great fear is the end after or the ultimate end. but the world of quanta shows us that there is no ultimate end and that now again agrees with the traditional physics, because in this physics energy CAN't disappear but it only changes its state.

so the answer simply lies in the divisibility of the number zero. because you CAN divide the zero into 2 different poles. this is also the wisdom of religions like buddhism. buddhists don't have a god - they never needed him because they believe in this divisibility of the number zero. and once you start to deal with it you will see that our whole life would not exist without this divided zero. this not only explains electricity and gravity but also happiness and unhappiness.

believe me - you don't need a god to be happy and fearless.
the only thing you need is a little empathy and a logical mind.

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AdultKing

God is Dog spelt backwards. I believe in my Dogs

thommy

because they have been kind of "equal" and had a common enemy.

as soon as you have one that thinks he is better you will see that everybody else will follow.
and as they are smart enough to understand that they have to be in a group to be stronger, they will build a group. and if the group wins they will split the group in smaller and smaller parts.

the biggest problem to build a unite today is that too many people have been forced to live in one. they never have seen the importance of a a unite and always looked at the differences instead the commons.

we are far away from being perfect but IF mankind survives (what i actually doubt) it will be ONLY POSSIBLE as a unit.

everyone that works against that works against the human future.

people who believe in MAGA don´t understand that it means: make alle the rest of the world our enemies!

and this is EXACTLY what radical islam is made from.

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Paul Markham

So explain why peopleof different ethnic back grounds are killing each because they are different.



Are Buddhists killing Muslims in Myanmar? Yes and your exposed as a liar, no and your exposed as ..........

I told you multiculturalism doesn't work, you proved it.

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Paul Markham

When a book that is presented as the truth, starts with lies. I must question the book and the people telling me it's the truth.

Was it a message from a god or orders on how I live for the benefit of the people telling me it's the truth?

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thommy

simply because they are on your education level or even lower.

again you show that you are just a troll with no knowledge of anything you are talking about.

this conflict has to do with EDUCATION and human rights.

the rohingyia have lived there for thousands of years and the united nations classifies them as the "most persecuted minority in the world".

according to the 1982 citizenship act, the rohingya are not considered one of the 135 (!!!) indigenous population groups (even when they lived there since thousands of years) and are therefore not entitled to myanmar citizenship.
as stateless persons, they have no rights whatsoever. They therefore have no opportunity to attend school, are not allowed to move freely within the country and are not free to choose their profession or spouse.

are you really wondering why this people are starting to fight for their rights?
but because they are muslim it is fucking easy to declare them terrorists because brainwashed uneducated with a voting right like you will believe it.

they will be used as a new example of how bad islam is even when this conflict there have NOTHING to do with religion.

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femdomdestiny

Similar happened in Europe when Slovenians under supervision and advice from Germany took the rights from the people they didn't consider "loyal" enough. Over 200 000 people, where some of them eventually lost properties. It was a silent and masked ethnic cleaning supported by EU.

Anyway, those people didn't start killing each other because of that.

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King Mark

The Bible has been tampered with by people like you.

The quran hasn't. And guess what the Quran tells us about how the earth was created?

https://www.whyislam.org/on-faith/th...ern-science-3/

Next...

thommy

we don´t have to discuss that with facts that are history.
you can go to the roman empire to find excuses and similarities. that does not make it any better.

germany is still fighting today for the so called "deleted" but we have learned that power of weapons will not lead anywhere.

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Phoenix

Dude god doesnt rape little girls. Evil men do. God just gives cancer and aids to infants

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femdomdestiny

How do you mean it won't lead? Most of the world got what they wanted with weapons, exclusively. It is happening right now as we speak.

In the example above, I've just made a parallel because you justified they are using weapons. I've found an example showing that other people didn't in a same or similar situation.

ANyway, Muslims should not be mixed with western civilization as I am concerned. These are totally incompatible worlds and values. I've visited enough Muslim countries and I should be totally blind and deaf not to see those differences.

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newB

I'm a Christian - albeit, not a very good one. These days I only go to church when I'm visiting family. I cannot speak for all religious people, but I do struggle with my belief. I have doubts. To Thommy saying religious people are looking for easy answers is complete bullshit. There are no easy answers, but there are lots of hard questions. But in the end it's about faith, not choice - or "need" as you put it.

For the record, I also embrace science. Have you ever noticed that the creation story of the bible corresponds with the events of the big bang, the formation of the earth, then land masses, and then evolution from aquatic to terrestrial animals and ultimately man? Pretty cool.

Do you believe in alternate universes? Did you know the concept was initially theorized by scientist because the universal constants are such that intelligent life can exist in our universe. If any number of these constants was not just so, then intelligent life would not be likely. Since this seemed to indicate a divine creator, the multiverse idea was put forward to suggest that this is just one of the universes where all of these constants hold true, while in others they do not. Read more here and here.

I see a lot of people saying that religious belief is a sign of low intellect, but I think those persons who only see this as an either/or situation are illustrating their own cognitive inflexibility.

__________________

thommy

interesting standpoint but i ask you something.

if there is something what we can not explain yet - why do we have to create a god and pray to him ?

can we not simply admit that we don´t know it and that IF there would be a god that wants us to pray to him, the very easiest way would be to show himself and tell it?

how can a god that can do all and everything be so stupid and create us the way we are and later send us to hell because HE made us so unperfect?

as i said we do not need a god - there are many many other explanations by now and most of them are not to improve yet (same as god is not to improve).

but if something is yellow, quack quacks and waddles like a duck, then it takes a lot of fantasy and simplicity if you think there would be an elephant around the corner.

the bible says nothing about what we call science today.
maybe it can be found in some writings that the church keeps under lock and key, because they are the part of the puzzle that would show the whole thing as obvious dazzling.

i don't want people to take their religion or their belief. i know that many people need it to hold on to something.
and as long as they don't try to force anyone else to believe it or see it as a dogma for everyone, it doesn't make them worse people.

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Bladewire

Paul doesn't want to "understand" anything.

It seems this thread was just created so Paul Markham could belittle religious folks

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AdultKing

Yep, he's a bit of a wanker.

TheSquealer

Another humorous claim of Islam. ... Something that I've heard time and time again from people who know nothing about the Judeo Christian beliefs and have not read the Torah or Old Testament.

Even better is "Gods promise" according to mohammed that the Quran is better... because THIS TIME, Gods word won't be altered because God will protect it... because mohammed said so. After all,,... you know, God couldn't protect the Torah or Old Testament for some reason and allowed it to be altered apparently. I mean, it was after all, the word of God and somehow this all powerful, omnipotent being who created time itself was on a mission to get everyone to praise him and worship him and spread his word (usually for some reason, through reluctant, illiterate and uneducated goat herder) .... but God couldn't just produce a book or tablets or anything himself for all to see and read and God couldn't stop either previous books for being "altered". Then of course mohammed proclaims the Quran (a book which is literally 1/2 about how to murder, enslave and prosecute non believers) to be "the perfect book and unaltered word of God". After all, nothing screams "loving, merciful and forgiving" like marching 700 people out to a ditch and cutting their heads off.

Even funnier is that you guys have absolutely no clue what your own religion is even based on as you've spent ZERO TIME studying the other 2 Abrahamic religions, ...you've just been told time and time again that a delusional pedophile warlord who got a lot wrong in his 1/2 assed references to Judeo Christian stories and the earlier so called "prophets" and then randomly proclaimed everyone else wrong, not him.... cause "God said so". You know, because God said so, to.... you guessed it, mohammed... and we know this cause.... mohammed said so.

And in that, you have the circular logic which is the fundamental basis of Islam.

I am the messenger of God because God said so...
The Quran is Gods word because I say so...
If you have any questions, refer to rule number 1, or risk getting your head sawed off.

__________________
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Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

Rochard

MaDalton

"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith, I am nothing."
"Oh," says man, "but the Babel fish is a dead give-away, isn't it? It proves You exist, and so therefore You don't."
"Oh, I hadn't thought of that," says God, who promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Ah, that was easy," says man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white, and gets killed on the next zebra crossing.

(C) Douglas Adams

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TheSquealer

BTW... to me, all religions are a product of evolutionary biology and evolution. Religions on the whole serve a vital purpose, though that need is of course fading rapidly in the last 100 years or so.

There is a lot about our brain and how it works that causes beliefs such as these. This is an extremely complex discussion but The Biology of Belief is one of many great books on the subject. Religion is wired into our brains just as appreciation of aesthetic beauty, appreciation of music, appreciation of dancing / tendency to dance etc. And to those who claim they aren't religious, you'll find countless firmly held beliefs in their lives which are no more or less rational and whose minds are not easier to change. Ultimately it's a discussion about personal identity, not "reason" and "logic".

Religions are ALL the same at their core. Moral laws, actual laws, how to handle food to mitigate disease, how to maintain good hygiene to mitigate disease, how to handle dead bodies to mitigate disease, how to interact and treat each other as a group, how to fight wars, and ritual and group activities which inspire greater loyalty to the group, inspiring those who fight to fight with more ferocity and less fear etc etc etc.

We are of the VERY FEW truly cooperative species who will cooperate outside of kin altruism. One unrelated primate will not work with another primate for them to save themselves and their offspring. To quote someone else, we are "90% chimpanzee, 10% bee"... meaning we are highly individualistic and pursue selfish goals most of the time but we also tend to fall in with the group when the survival of individuals is at risk.

With the advent of agriculture and larger and larger settlements, came 1000s of new religions, all of which, almost without exception provides the foundations for improved cooperation in larger groups of people in larger and larger cities... we went from bands of 10-20-30 hunter gatherers to 1000s living in tightly closed spaces. cooperation as a group, and those groups who cooperate best, enhances greatly, individual chances of survival.

A simple fact is that people treat each other better and get along better (on the whole) when they believe that they are both being watched 24/7 and believe they will ultimately answer for everything they do and say.

You can't believe in evolution and deny that any species sheds what doesn't work and keeps what works. Religion has existed since the dawn of man. That's not an accident.... it is an essential part of a small groups ability to survive and thrive.

As a species, we are at a crossroads. The millions of years old rules of survival have been tossed out the window in just a couple centuries. Societies are breaking down. Marriages are breaking down. Family values are breaking down. Even male and female identities are breaking down. Even the very idea of genders is now being blurred. Who knows what the future holds for any religion,... the simple fact is that they are dying. There will always be people who believe in "something else" or "a higher power" in their quest for meaning and understanding as its in our genes. But if it wasn't for the fact that certain populations were pumping out shittons more children and then forcing them into religion, it would mostly fade away.

One indisputable truth about mythology in cultures is that the harder their life is, the more they fall back on mythology. The safer they are from attack, the safer they are from starving, the safer they are from disease, the more abundance of food there is, the more mythology starts to fade and play an increasingly diminished role in any society. It's not a coincidence that Islam dominates the worlds harshest environments and most miserable places to live.. it is what generally gives them purpose and meaning and helps to ensure they can more or less live peacefully together without worry about a neighbor fucking your wife, killing you for food, taking your property etc.

The movie Exodus touches on this topic expertly. 10s of 1000s of restless people who had escaped Ramses were all grouped together asking "now what". Some were clearly going to start fighting for power. Cliques would start to form. Tribes within tribes would start to form and in almost no time, they'd be fighting each other.

Moses then ducks out of sight and comes back with the 10 Commandments - What "God" said. Don't kill. Don't steal. Don't fuck your neighbors wife" etc etc etc. A basic legal framework to start to shut these behaviors down and help them coexist and operate more effectively as a large group. In that situation, is it relevant whether or not there is a God? whether the Commandments are really from "God" or is the very point that they multiplied their chances of survival a 100 fold through agreeing to this simple belief?

Does it even matter?

__________________
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Yes, fewer illegal immigrants working equates to more job opportunities for American citizens.

Rochard

King Mark

I guess you missed the part where I spent 10 years in Catholic school, that also had Jews... And we all got along and had to learn Christianity to pass.

Trust me bro, I know a lot more than you (as proven by me destroying every one of your walls of deflective texts) and you have NO IDEA what you're babbling about.

You're an islamophobe. Which is ok. That's your right.