Harmon

51.......

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Fresh

fuck those hypocrite mother fuckers.

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haig

ha___
you just care about inglish, don't care about opinians, maybe you don't hav answers againce to mine?

AlienQ - BANNED FOR LIFE

AND AT THE ROOT OF ALL THIS MURDER IS GOD.

Case an point. Conflict over god, humans killing each other in the name of god.

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Fresh

= owned

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GatorB

Who gives a fuck? How, many American movies portray other races as "evil"? How many western movies in the 50's portrayed indians as nothing but savages that got what they deserved. How many movies in the 80's had all those evil commies in them? How many WWII movies portrayed ALL American soldiers as good and all German soldiers as pure evil? We had some bad soldiers and face it most Germans didn't like Hitler and served in the army because it was that or be shot on site. Yes most SS were evil, but the typical foot soldier was basiclly FORCED to fight. The typical german foot soldier was so eager to surrender that by the end of WWII we had over 400K german POWs being held in America. But hey let's not let FACTS get in the way of box office $$$$. The Turks are just doing what American movie makers have done for nearly 100 years.

buraque

Being the ignorant you are, i find it only fair to inform you that Turks do not have a history of 83 years. The Ottoman Empire was built in late 1230's. But it is only the precedessor of Turkey. The earliest know Turkish empire is the Hum Empire which goes back to B.C 400.

you say 'your bloody history - your country is built on other people's blood' now that is funny since it's coming from an american. (Indians, Black People, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Japanese people in concentration camps, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again. these are all i can remember now) Even if what you say is true, i think you should be the last one to blame us for building our country on other people's blood.

First of all there were never 1.5 million Armenians living there. And the reason why they were forced to move, and yes killed, was that they back stabbed the Ottoman Empire in the WWI, and began killing Turkish civilians in the area. I mean it's not like we wanted to own the oil in that area and therefore made up a lie that they owned chemical weapons and killed some and put the rest in prisons and tortured them and well, you know how the story goes.

Yes we killed many Greek soldiers during the independance war after they had invaded Anatolia, but i cannot see anything wrong with this. Is there something else about the Greeks i do not konw? And i would also very much appreciate it if you informed me about Bulgarians. And the Kurds, yes, if you are talking about PKK it is officially declared as a terrorist organization by your very own government. Come on, come to your senses, even if what you say is true the most recent issue you talk about took place like 80 years ago, but now as i write, american troops are killing innocent people in Iraq. Again even if what you say is true, at least we have been trying to better ourselves for the past 80 years, what about you? I guess all that slaughtering in Iraq doesn't help much.

anyway, i think the topic we were talking about was the movie showing americans killing innocent people in Iraq. i saw the movie today. it is a movie, fiction, everything shown in the movie doesn't have to be true, but yes, americans are killing innocent people in iraq. and also torturing some.

JamesK2

Nice one. I'd write that but I was too lazy

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buraque

and also, being an ally doesn't necessarily have to mean being partners in crime.

abadfish

Threads like this make me want to move to Antarctica.

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Reanna Mae

je_rome

Movies mirror reality. Can't blame the producers and scriptwriters for coming up with such movie theme.

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s9ann0

gonna dl it sounds interesting

Scootermuze

Not surprised that Busey did it.. He's washed up in the U.S. and probably broke..

Platinumpimp

Shut up you pig

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I design logo's.

Theo

You invaded Cyprus in '74 by murdering civilians

how can you forget that fucking idiot?


as far PKK characterized as terrorist organization this is the trade-off outcome between Turkey and certain countries. I'm glad Greece and Italy protected Ocalan, a strictly political n' rebel figure. Kurds have been suffering for so many years and have nobody's support.

Well let me tell you about your terrorist bs, I can do a donation to PKK like i have done to other kurdish support groups and nobody will even question my action. You are so pathetic you keep him alone in a whole prison, didn't give him a fair trial and you have violated all his human rights according to two rulings by the European Court of Human Rights.

Lev

Ottoman Empire, Mr. Dumbass, consisted of many cultures, not just Turkish. Turks are nothing but a mix of Mongols, Kurds, Persians ect.. Under Ottoman Empire there Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Albanians, Kurds and they were all citizens and were supposed to be protected, but instead were rounded up and killed.

What happend in Iraq, Afghanistan, Hiroshima was during WAR, yes during war horrible things happen. But what your ancestors did to Armenians was not war, but a Genocide! Killing a peacful population, which were loyal to the Ottoma Empire does not consitute a war. In 1914 there were around 2 million in Eastern Anatolia, of which your ancestors massacred 1.5 million. Nobody backstabbed Turks, again Armenians were the most loyal, while Greeks got their independence, Bulgarians aparted, Armenians waited that maybe things will get better as the Young Turks came to power, but what happened, they started to drive Armenians from their homeland and massacre them, thats war to you?

And you are saying all those countries who adopted the Armenian Genocide are all lyers and only Turkey is telling the truth?

International bodies that recognize the Armenian genocide include the European Parliament, the Council of Europe, the European Parliamentary Assembly, and the United Nations Sub-Commission on Prevention of Discrimination and Protection of Minorities, the International Center for Transitional Justice, based on a report prepared for TARC, the Association of Genocide Scholars, the Union of American Hebrew Congregations, the World Council of Churches, the Turkish Human Rights Organization, the League for Human Rights [14], the Parliament of Kurdistan in Exile (an unofficial organisation with no parliamentary powers), and the Permanent Peoples' Tribunal.

The majority of US states recognize the Armenian Genocide, but there is no federal (country-wide) recognition.

The Canadian House of Commons voted to officially recognize the Armenian Genocide. The federal government, in opposing the motion, did not express a position on whether the genocide took place.

And soon the United States will this year, then we will see how your shitty country reacts.

Lev

Look closely what your ancestors did:

buraque

Of course i do not forget '74 invasion retard. but killing civilians? ok, the only thing i can say to you is, check these words out : EOKA / EOKA - B / ENOSIS
this is from globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/eoka.htm
EOKA [Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston - National Organization of Cypriot Fighters] started a guerrilla campaign against British colonial rule aimed at self-determination and union with Greece (Enosis)on 01 April 1955. The campaign, which started when the first EOKA bombs exploded at 00.30 hours on 1st of April 1955, lasted until 1959 and caused the death of more Greek Cypriot civilians than the total of British killed. It created civil strife and mistrust between the two Cypriot communities. Tension increased in early 1957, when EOKA attacked Turkish police and auxiliaries. EOKA received direct support from Greece in money, arms, organization and propaganda. Greek-speaking Cypriots were awed by EOKA terrorists and subject to bombardment by Athens radio. Under a 1959 compromise settlement known as Zurich-London agreements, Cyprus became an independent Republic in 1960. Since then, April 1 is a national holiday. It was celebrated in memorial services in Churches and gatherings in cities and villages in the free part of Cyprus.
EOKA-B emerged twice, in 1963 and 1974, in collaboration and cooperation with Greece, to attack the Turkish Cypriots, one of the two co-founding partners of the Republic of Cyprus, with the aim of uniting the Island with Greece.
-------------------
and this is from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EOKA
The objective of EOKA [1] was to drive the British out of the island first and then integrate the island to Greece by destroying the Turkish community with a massive annihilation. EOKA initiated its activities by planting the first bombs on 1 April 1951 with the directive by Greek Foreign Minister Stefanopulos.
The first secret talks for EOKA as a terrorist organization [2] established to destroy the Turkish public in Cyprus and integrate the island to Greece, were started in the chairmanship of Makarios in Athens on 2 July 1952. In the aftermath of these meetings, a "Council of Revolution" was established on 7 March 1953. In early 1954, secret weaponry shipment to Cyprus started to the knowledge of the Greek government. Grivas covertly disembarked on the island on 9 November 1954. EOKA's campaign of terrorism [3] was properly under way.
Assaults on Turks began on 21 June 1955.

In 1963, EOKA restarted its acts, killing over 500 Turks, burning down 103 Turkish villages and forcing tens of thousands of Turks to migrate. Now a secretive organisation and going by the name of EOKA-B, in the Sampson coup on 15 July 1974, EOKA members this time pointed their weapons to their own community, killing 2,000 Greek cypriots who were Makarios supporters. These dead and missing were later to be added on to the casualties of Turkish invasion, so as to be used for Greek propaganda.
-----------------------------
now who was killing civilians? hope this will give you a better idea as to why we invaded cyprus. You can spend your money on whatever you want, as if i f'ing care. we are keeping Ocalan alone in a prison.... hmm... you have a point there. maybe instead isolating him we could put him in a prison with others where we can get him and the others naked, pile them up on eachother and take their pictures and pee on them, if you know what i mean.

Kevin - The PNN

We should NUKE them

buraque

interesting. so the fact that you are at war with Afghanistan and Iraq gives you the right to act as you will. so your point is if we had been at war with the armenians at the time, we would have had the right to do whatever we wanted. that's what you say, horrible things happen in wars. has it ever occured to you as to why the wars you are mentioning broke out, Afghanistan and Iraq? it's funny, even if you start an unjust war, still you can make terrible things happen since it is a war.
so we killed the armenians and took their lands... if that is the case, i'm sure what you did to the indians was a great source of inspiration for us. afterall we must have gotten the idea from you.
anyway, i never claimed we have a very clean history. neither have you, nor any other country. but yours is way too bloodier than the others. and the thing is while many other countries PAST is bloody, you just can't seem to get rid of the habit. and also you are still missing my point. while the above mentioned movie is just a movie and therefore might have used some scenes just to create a dramatic effect, it is still the truth that american troops did and still do kill innocent people in Iraq. Although you have written quite long posts you have not been able to go step further than blaimng Turkey for the things it did in the PAST and yet failed to defend any actions that are being done TODAY by your own country.

JamesK2

Your ancestors wiped out the whole Indian race

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-Turk-

Exactly.

And just a note to give some foresight into this whole thread;
You're inherent discontent is blatantly obvious Lev.
At least for the sake of credibility be a bit objective.
For you to honestly gripe about a movie you haven't seen that depicts US troops killing innocents and us that as a whole basis for "those fuckers aren't are allies" is just plain idiotic. As the record stands Turkey has been there to assist the US for decades. The relationship has been key in many situations you will NEVER know about... NASA missions, Sat Comm, NATO campaigns, and lets not forget about the Gulf War.

So before you have the incitement to shit on some people for such trivial bullshit. REALIZE your just a millimeter away from becoming that which you think you hate.

Lev

The war in Afhganistan broke out because Osama and his network of terrorists were hiding under the protection of Taliban, other Islamic extreemists. The war in Iraq I do not approve much, but war is war, yes people get killed and horrible things happen. But what your acestors did to Armenians was not war, but a GENOCIDE. They were not at war with Armenians remember that. I do not approve what some American soldiers do while in Iraq, but again you can not have a war without any bad consequences.
When Indians got killed you IDIOT, there was United States and no government, so you are blaming Columbus's actions on today's U.S. government?? I fail to see your reasoning. Turkey, however was the direct heir of the Ottoman Empire, under which Armenians (who were Turkish citizens) got massacred, so the blame and resonsibility goes to the current Turkish government. This happened only 91 years ago remember, it was the first genocide of the 20th century. It is the same as saying today's Germany is not responsible for the actions of Nazi Germany. Actually today's Germany still pays restitution to Jews.
What America does now I do not fully approve, but you can not even compare it to what your ancestors did to Armenians, Greeks, Kurds and other minorities under the Ottoman Empire, who were supposed to be protected like any other citizens of the empire, but instead got killed because they were, how you say in your native toungue, "gavurs".

Lev

Here are more reports of your "civilized" country jailing journalists and writers:

Monday, February 6, 2006

ISTANBUL - TDN with AFP

Five prominent journalists will be facing the court tomorrow on
charges of insulting the judiciary for criticizing a court decision
to suspend a conference in September on the Armenian issue.

Turkey, which drew the ire of the European Union for putting author
Orhan Pamuk on trial for his public remarks on the Armenian issue,
is expected to be criticized when hahaha1060;hahaha1040;smet Berkan, Erol Kathahaha1060;hahaha1041;rchahaha1060;hahaha1041;o glu,
Haluk hahaha1061;~^ahin and Murat Belge of Radikal, and Hasan Cemal of Milliyet,
face the court on charges that carry a sentence of between six months
and 10 years.

"I did nothing but enjoy my right to freedom of expression by saying
that the... conference was necessary and that the court was hampering
the proper functioning of democracy," Cemal told AFP. Twenty-nine
writers or editors are currently on trial for violating controversial
Article 301 of the new penal code, which criminalizes any opinion
that could be considered insulting towards state institutions and
"Turkishness."

Lev

My ancestors arrived here in 1492, I did not know that, thanks for the info idiot

Lev

Turkey was always there for U.S.

You are too funny, what happened when U.S. wanted to use your border to attack Iraq from north, which would have saved many American lives, saved billions of dollars and made the war much easier? Your two faced country refused their entry, is that what true allies do in times of trouble?

buraque

and i fail to see your reasoning as well, unless of course if you have any. I can't see how you get to blame Tukey, which overthrew the Ottoman Empire, for the deeds of the Ottoman Empire, and put the blame on Columbus for yours.
And also it is interesting that you accuse me of blaming Columbus' actions on today' U.S government. You sound as if Cloumbus had wiped out all the Indians in his time.
But sure, i will just ignore Columbus and look at the deeds done after him. Forgive me if i am wrong but i think US was formed in 1774 with the Declaration of Independance, right? But of course that does not mean that what happened before 1774 can be ignored easily as they were your ancestors.
onlineutah.com/bearrivermassacre.shtml :
--------On 29 January 1863 Colonel Patrick Edward Connor and about 200 California Volunteers attacked a Northwestern Shoshoni winter village located at the confluence of Beaver Creek and Bear River, twelve miles west and north of the village of Franklin in Cache Valley and just a short distance north of the present Utah-Idaho boundary line..... Before the colonel led his men from Camp Douglas at Salt Lake City north to Bear River, he had announced that he intended to take no prisoners.......... The Volunteers suffered most of their twenty-three casualties in their first charge across the open plain in front of the Shoshoni village. Colonel Connor soon changed tactics, which resulted in a complete envelopment of the Shoshoni camp by the soldiers who began firing on the Indian men, women, and children indiscriminately. By 8:00 a.m., the Indian men were out of ammunition, and the last two hours of the battle became a massacre as the soldiers used their revolvers to shoot down all the Indians they could find in the dense willows of the camp.

Approximately 250 Shoshoni were slain, including 90 women and children. After the slaughter ended, some of the undisciplined soldiers went through the Indian village raping women and using axes to bash in the heads of women and children who were already dying of wounds. Chief Bear Hunter was killed along with sub-chief, Lehi. The troops burned the seventy-five Indian lodges, recovered 1,000 bushels of wheat and flour, and appropriated 175 Shoshoni horses. While the troops cared for their wounded and took their dead back to Camp Douglas for burial, the Indians' bodies were left on the field for the wolves and crows.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
ands we have general custer....
--------- hanksville.org/daniel/misc/Custer.html : ... the culmination of this campaign was the massacre of Black Kettle's Southern Cheyennes in the Battle of the Washita, November 27, 1868, with 103 Cheyennes dead in the mud and snow. The animals were all slaughtered, at Custer's order. All captured possessions were burned
--------------------------------------------------
and of course we have the trail of tears
-------- powersource.com/cherokee/history.html
Under orders from President Jackson, the U.S. Army began enforcement of the Removal Act. Around 3,000 Cherokees were rounded up in the summer of 1838 and loaded onto boats that traveled the Tennessee, Ohio, Mississippi, and Arkansas Rivers into Indian Territory. Many were held in prison camps awaiting their fate. In the winter of 1838-39, 14,000 were marched 1,200 miles through Tennessee, Kentucky, Illinois, Missouri, and Arkansas into rugged Indian Territory. An estimated 4,000 died from hunger, exposure and disease.

and there are many others and we have slavery and the things done to african americans. so Columbus' actions, my ass.

Lev

buraque,

Please answer me one question: Do you think that today's Germany is responsible for the actions of Nazi Germany and should today's Germany do the following (which it already did):

1. Accept the Holocaust?
2. Pay restitution to Jews, whos families were affected by the Holocaust?

If you answered "yes" and I hope you did, then you answered my next question:

Is Turkey responsible for the actions of the Ottoman Empire, to which it was heir?

I am not saying Turkey itself committed Genocide, although Ataturk was the one who finished the Armenian Question, by driving out the last ones. But Turkey should accept the Armenian Genocide, pay for all the land and money it stole from the Armenians. Don't you agree this will be a noble step for Turkey and will play positively for its bid to join the EU?

Centurion

1)It's a MOVIE! A bad one at that! (Look at who the American actors are!)

2)Um..isn't Freedom of Speech one of the main reasons we're fighting in Iraq? And now you get pissed when someone excercises their freedom of Speech in Turkey? You can certainly hate the movie, but you also have to remember that this country has given a lot of people plenty of fodder over the years to make movies out of.

__________________

Lev

At least you agree it is a bad movie lol

I totally understand what you are saying, but Turkey does not have freedom of speech. They jail writers and journalists for speaking their minds, as I indicated earlier with many sources, but when it comes to anti-American movie, they have no problem of showing it. Try making a movie about the Armenian Genocide or try showing it in Turkey, they will put you in prison for life! See, this is my point, if Turkey is so concerned about the freedom of speech, then it should revoke its penal code which basically can jail a person for insulting Turkey's "Turkishness", no country on Earth, well except the dictatorship ones, has this kind of laws.

-Turk-

Buddy you basis is hollow.
You keep running back to BS examples that don't represent the whole.
There is no way you can use that to wipe out over 50yrs of "ally" status. If you haven't noticed just about the rest of the world doesn't agree on the invasion of Iraq and that includes many "ally's". So excuse Turkey for making a call there. If you didn't notice 95% of the US operations that have been going on in Turkey are still.

Its obvious that you're using the whole "OMFG can u believe a Turkish film portrays Americans in a bad light" BS as you're soapbox for the genocide issue.
It's understandable.
Do you think the majority of the free-minded educated Turks don't want some kind fo resoultuion on the issue. They would all like to see some kind of grievances made about it and move on in a better light. Absolutely.

Are you that ignorant that you let a small percentage of the people in power (and fanatics) be your representation of a people as a whole (in which ever time period) ?
I guess you're to blind to see that there are over 70 million Turkish people from just about ever corner of the globe. One of the most diverse cultures around. Sure we are struggling with reform and right wing politics. But we are PROGRESSING. We're not bombing or invading, killing or oppressing other countries. The more that are educated the more the awareness level comes up and the more change occurs. I'm sure you know separating religion from state is not an easy task. But we've managed to become secular and managed to loosen the grip of Islam in government and politics in so many big ways. Come one man.. look at our neighbors. It ain't no cake walk.

So before you come on your horse high and mighty with baggage as a country like no other. Ask yourself this... what is it exactly you want these people as a whole or as a country to "get". What is it exactly that your going to tell them about they're past they they don't already live every day for the most part wanting to be evolved from.

People for the most part want them same thing. To be happy and free. But we're at the crux of the situation again and before you even finish what I'm writing I'm sure you thought of 20 more "owned" comebacks that you think might show something the world doesn't already know.
It's sad.. b/c if I was in Boston at a pub and we had this conversation you wouldnt even know that I was Turkish and probably would understand exactly where I'm coming from. And that's why for the most party Turkey has helped the US when it does. We all want the same things. It's not that hard to see.
Strip away the govements, bad polotics,shitty history, and we're all just a bunch of blokes wanting to get drunk and laid.
Aint life grand?

polle54

everybody wants to be the bad guy, thats great roles

__________________
ICQ# 143561781

chodadog

Say thanks to the next native american indian you see for simply handing america over to you guys and getting you where you are today. Oh, wait..

__________________
26 + 6 = 1

-Turk-

He's smoking crack.


-20 million native americans were massacered.
-The American Crusades, 15 million gone.
-Atlantic Slave Trade, 18 million slaughtered.

Theres much more. He seriously needs to get a clue.

viva celebs

did you know america has imprisoned american citizens since 2001?, not for having views against america but POSSABLY having views against america.

justsexxx

So what's the problem? It's called a MOVIE

__________________
Questions?

ICQ: 125184542

directfiesta

So, why doesn't Amerika liberate Turkey and the poor Turks...????

Oups, forgot: just like in Pakistan, they are your allies, even contributing to the torture of " flying" prisoners ....

So then, it is OK... But they better stay in line, or else ....

And yes, It is a movie ... would you prefer a " cartoon " ?

__________________
I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

Lev

Turk,

Friendship between nations takes years to establish, but one day to destroy. Yes Turkey and America has been allies for 50 years. Then when America really needs Turkey they turn them down. Ok, this is fine, because the parliament voted and a democratic vote always needs to be respected. But why then go a say "if you gives us more money" we will let you use the Northern front? Isn't this a little two-faced trick? The whole point of an "ally" is to support your other ally in every time, especially during war.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,78890,00.html

No, my original thread was about the movie, but they all you hypocrites started to talk about the freedom of speech in Turkey and that this movie is a portrayal of this. My, friend selective freedom of speech does not count. If Turkey showed movies about the Armenian Genocide or stopped jailing writers and journalists for insulting Turkey, I would drop the issue:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4688992.stm

So, I still missed it, do you accept or not the Armenian Genocide, because your words sound sincere but they are still not fully understandable? And you know the only solution is for Turkey coming clean with its past and accepting it, period!

You are not oppressing other countries, because you have already done this 91 years ago, no more countries and people to oppress lol. They are now 40,000 Armenians left in Turkey from 2 million.

Anyways, I do not want to drag this any further. Lots of Turks are good people, actually lots of them helped Armenians escape the Genocide by risking their lives. But, they are still lots of ignorant fools that were and are still being brainwashed by your government to believe that there was no Genocide, while most of the world accepted this horrific fact in history. Your country needs to come clean. Have a good day.

nick1980

it's true..

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buraque

if it is true that Turkey and USA have been allies for the past 50 years or so, USA can not be so stupid to only give and take nothing.



Actually it is Hagia Sophia. It is a museum now.

at least we are only opressing, but not also INVADING and BOMBING



the thing is they are not countries in which the majority of the population is made up of muslims.

True. Unfortunately you keep all the invasion and genocide for yourself.



I can't have anything to say for this, you speak for yourself you are a racist. I feel sorry for you.

reynold

somebody bumped this thread...

Theo

to answer your question. Turkey has been providing land to states for military activities towards iraq and afghanistan. You were promised before a big sum of money during previous attack in iraq that you never received and history repeats itself.

Agia Sofia VS Hagia Sophia

What are you trying to do here? Point out how are we're gonna call a greek name of a greek place? It started getting funny.

buraque

Actually Hagia Sophia is its Greek name. It is written with -H- got it?
Greek place? Just to let you know it has been a Turkish place for the last 500 years, which is way too older than the whole US history.

jade_dragon

low blow.


But anyway, not many countries if any can say that they have had no history of violence and war in their making. The countries deemed civilized in Asia (Japan and china) Western Europe (Germany, Great Brittian, France, Spain and the surrounding smaller countries) and North America (Us,Canada) ALL have been involved in wars. In every one of us resides blood that comes from the decendant of a soldier probably, Black, White, Asian, Persian (arab) know that your forefathers killed for land, wealth and power.

that being said the only argument is what we do NOW. I would love a world where everyone got along, where everyone thought of the greater good and worked for it, but it aint gonna happen, there will be war because the few leaders of the many will wage them for pretty much the same things they have always had them for, our need for those things have not changed so why would the way that we go about getting them?

I have not seen the movie and probably will not. If I was an actor and they wanted me in it, if I could not see an clear and underlying message that this actually happened as the script said or that it was obvious it was ficticious with the point being to make the actions of others seem so horrorible, so disgusting and vile that every one who saw it left wanting there to be peace then I would never do it.

If the movie even closely resembled a smear campaign against America or its allies, if it seemed like it would do nothing more than anger volitile people to the point of commiting attocities of their own, there would be no amount of money that would get me to sign my name to it, there are better ways to make money and I am not hurting that bad for it and never will be.

This is differant than a movie like Roots, Tora, Tora, Tora, Full Metal Jacket or movies about WWII or any western made movies about bad situations in society. When Roots came black people did not go out and bomb an embassy now did they? Maybe there is something to be said about how the "civilized" world reacts to popular media, how they look at it, learn from it, educate the future generations on it and move towards not repeating it. I am not going to go as far as to call the middle east uncivilized, but it seems that the few leaders of violent groups can not handle viewing materials without acting violently on them.

With this in mind I have to ask why would anyone put out such a volitile work after the reaction to something as non moving as a cartoon? I am not saying bury your head in the sand, I am just saying have some forethought in what you do, your duty as a member of society to do what you can to help and not hurt. I just hope this is not as bad as it may be, even though it would not take much to cause a problem with certain individuals

__________________
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buraque

The following are the Jewish and Armenian sources on the cold-blooded
genocide perpetrated by the x-Soviet Armenian Government against 2.5
million Muslim people between 1914 and 1920.

Source: Stanford J. Shaw, on Armenian collaboration with invading Russian
armies in 1914, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey (Volume
II: Reform, Revolution & Republic: The Rise of Modern Turkey, 1808-1975)."
(London, Cambridge University Press 1977). pp. 315-316.

"In April 1915 Dashnaks from Russian Armenia organized a revolt in the city
of Van, whose 33,789 Armenians comprised 42.3 percent of the population,
closest to an Armenian majority of any city in the Empire...Leaving Erivan
on April 28, 1915, Armenian volunteers reached Van on May 14 and organized
and carried out a general slaughter of the local Muslim population during
the next two days."

"Knowing their numbers would never justify their territorial ambitions,
Armenians looked to Russia and Europe for the fulfillment of their aims.
Armenian treachery in this regard culminated at the beginning of the First
World War with the decision of the revolutionary organizations to refuse
to serve their state, the Ottoman Empire, and to assist instead other
invading Russian armies. Their hope was their participation in the Russian
success would be rewarded with an independent Armenian state carved out of
Ottoman territories. Armenian political leaders, army officers, and common
soldiers began deserting in droves."

"With the Russian invasion of eastern Anatolia in 1914 at the beginning of
World War I, the degree of Armenian collaboration with the Ottoman's enemy
increased drastically. Ottoman supply lines were cut by guerilla attacks,
Armenian revolutionaries armed Armenian civil populations, who in turn
massacred the Muslim population of the province of Van in anticipation of
expected arrival of the invading Russian armies."


Source: Stanford J. Shaw, "History of the Ottoman Empire and Modern Turkey,"
Vol II. Cambridge University Press, London, 1979, pp. 314-317.

"...Meanwhile, Czar Nicholas II himself came to the Caucasus to make final
plans for cooperation with the Armenians against the Ottomans, with the
president of the Armenian National Bureau in Tiflis declaring in response:

'From all countries Armenians are hurrying to enter the ranks of the
glorious Russian Army, with their blood to serve the victory of Russian
arms...Let the Russian flag wave freely over the Dardanelles and the
Bosporus. Let, with Your will, great Majesty, the peoples remaining
under the Turkish yoke receive freedom. Let the Armenian people of Turkey
who have suffered for the faith of Christ receive resurrection for a new
free life under the protection of Russia.'[155]

Armenians again flooded into the czarist armies. Preparations were made
to strike the Ottomans from the rear, and the czar returned to St. Petersburg
confident that the day finally had come for him to reach Istanbul."

[155] Horizon, Tiflis, November 30, 1914, quoted by Hovannisian, "Road to
Independence," p. 45; FO 2485, 2484/46942, 22083.

"Ottoman morale and military position in the east were seriously hurt, and
the way was prepared for a new Russian push into eastern Anatolia, to be
accompanied by an open Armenian revolt against the sultan.[156]"

[156] Hovannisian, "Road to Independence," pp. 45-47; Bayur, III/1,
pp. 349-380; W.E.D. Allen and P. Muratoff, "Caucasian Battlefields,"
Cambridge, 1953, pp. 251-277; Ali Ihsan Sabis, "Harb Hahralaram," 2 vols.,
Ankara, 1951, II, 41-160; FO 2146 no. 70404; FO 2485; FO 2484, nos.
46942 and 22083.

"An Armenian state was organized at Van under Russian protection, and it
appeared that with the Muslim natives dead or driven away, it might be
able to maintain itself at one of the oldest centers of ancient Armenian
civilization. An Armenian legion was organized 'to expel the Turks from
the entire southern shore of the lake in preparation for a concerted
Russian drive into the Bitlis vilayet.'[162] Thousands of Armenians from
Mus and other major centers in the east began to flood into the new
Armenian state...By mid-July there were as many as 250,000 Armenians
crowded into the Van area, which before the crisis had housed and fed
no more than 50,000 people, Muslim and non-Muslim alike.[163]"

[162] Hovannisian, "Road to Independence," p. 56; FOP 2488, nos. 127223 and
58350.

[163] BVA, Meclis-i Vukela Mazbatalari, debates of August 15-17, 1915;
Babi-i Ali Evrak Odasi, no. 175, 321, "Van Ihtilali ve Katl-i Ami,"
Zilkade 1333/10 September 1915.


Source: Hovannisian, Richard G.: Armenia on the Road to Independence, 1918.
University of California Press (Berkeley and Los Angeles), 1967, p. 13.

"The addition of the Kars and Batum oblasts to the Empire increased the
area of Transcaucasia to over 130,000 square miles. The estimated population
of the entire region in 1886 was 4,700,000, of whom 940,000 (20 percent) were
Armenian, 1,200,000 (25 percent) Georgian, and 2,220,000 (45 percent) Moslem.
Of the latter group, 1,140,000 were Tatars. Paradoxically, barely one-third
of Transcaucasia's Armenians lived in the Erevan guberniia, where the
Christians constituted a majority in only three of the seven uezds. Erevan
uezd, the administrative center of the province, had only 44,000 Armenians
as compared to 68,000 Moslems. By the time of the Russian Census of 1897,
however, the Armenians had established a scant majority, 53 percent, in the
guberniia; it had risen by 1916 to 60 percent, or 670,000 of the 1,120,000
inhabitants. This impressive change in the province's ethnic character
notwithstanding, there was, on the eve of the creation of the Armenian
Republic, a solid block of 370,000 Tartars who continued to dominate the
southern districts, from the outskirts of Ereven to the border of Persia."
(See also Map 1. Historic Armenia and Map 4. Administrative subdivisions of
Transcaucasia).

In 1920, '0' percent Turk.

"We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as
ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work
of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village.
Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts
into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable
and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets
completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They
found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border
into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole
length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to
Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain
plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of
Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for
howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the
scattered bones of the dead."

Ohanus Appressian
"Men Are Like That"
p. 202.


"An appropriate analogy with the Jewish Holocaust might be the
systematic extermination of the entire Muslim population of
the independent republic of Armenia which consisted of at
least 30-40 percent of the population of that republic. The
memoirs of an Armenian army officer who participated in and
eye-witnessed these atrocities was published in the U.S. in
1926 with the title 'Men Are Like That.' Other references abound."
(Rachel A. Bortnick - The Jewish Times - June 21, 1990)


1."Men Are Like That" by Leonard A. Hartill, Bobbs Co., Indianapolis,
1926

Memoirs of an Armenian Army Officer translated to English and
published by a member of American "Near East Relief Organization."
Gives the whole account of the genocide of all Turkish and Moslem
people in Armenia organized and executed by Armenian Government and
Army. Also gives account of countless other massacres and atrocities
against the Turkish people in Armenia.

2."Adventures in the Near East, 1918-22" by A. Rawlinson,
Dodd, Meade & Co., 1925

Eyewitness account of the same genocide by a British Army Officer.

3."World Alive, A Personal Story" by Robert Dunn,
Crown Publishers, Inc., New York, 1952

Another eyewitness account of the same genocide by an American
Officer.

4."From Sardarapat to Serves and Lousanne" by Avetis Aharonian,
The Armenian Review Magazine, Volume 15 (Fall 1962) through 17
(Spring 1964)

Memoirs of the chief Armenian delegate to the Paris Peace Conference
were published in the Armenian Review Magazine in 13 articles from
Volume 15 (Fall 1962) to Volume 17 (Spring 1964). These memoirs
include an interview between Aharonian and British Foreign Minister
Lord Curzon in which above-mentioned genocide was discussed. The
official report mentioned by Lord Curzon is the report of British
High Commissioner to Caucasia, Sir Oliver Wardrop.


'We closed the roads and mountain passes that
might serve as ways of escape for the Turks
and then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
(Ohanus Appressian - 1919)
'In Soviet Armenia today there no longer exists
a single Turkish soul.' (Sahak Melkonian - 1920)

RF Simon

People that dont read dont travel are =RED NECKS like this ASS HOLE since he does not know shit about shit. By shooting the movie in TR it shows freedom of speech + You think that you can say anything any where in the US you dumm ass they will have your ass in the sling down in CUBA in a heart beat

My man travel + read aducate your dumm ass before posting stupid shit.

Freedom of Speech my ass in the US and in EU

Kimo

i gotta see this movie!

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s9ann0

sounds like one to add to the emule queue

woj

100...........

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Mr. Romance

bad times


Mr. Romance

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