What to do if a see cheater on SE? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

Rui · 03-05-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

I have reported many, many people that unfairly knocked me down and I will continue to do so. I do not have the time nor the desire to play your black hat SEO games just so I can keep the keywords I deserve on my relevant sites over your garbage sites.

Black hat SEO's are pathetic industry rejects in my book. You say I should learn to play the SEO game to keep my sites on top. I say YOU should create better, truly relevant sites.

Amen brother....but GFY is the wrong place to make such statements, if you know what I mean (just look at this thread)

suesheboy · 03-05-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumz

Cheating? How? I can´t think a single way to "cheat" search engines, it´s called seo. Just try to rank better.

Bulshit.

Real SEo is done white hat and cheaters do get caught and go down.

All the engines have report links.

Matt 26z · 03-05-2006, 03:07 PM

I'm quite certain ND is not interested in playing our little GFY games considering they don't even post here. If you make that, great. If not, I don't care either.

I just find your "they should be using my smokey.txt and not robots.txt to remove my site, or I've got rights to nail them!" mentality to be on the childish side.

But whatever....... I'm gone.

Young · 03-05-2006, 03:08 PM

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

I'm quite certain ND is not interested in playing our little GFY games considering they don't even post here. If you make that, great. If not, I don't care either.

I just find your "they should be using my smokey.txt and not robots.txt to remove my site, or I've got rights to nail them!" mentality to be on the childish side.

But whatever....... I'm gone.

blah blah blah you make statements you cant backup . I make statement i backup with hard facts. Any sponsor is more than happy to verify my stats to another affiliate because i make good coin with them..

You obviously do care because you brought it up. not me..

You find my smokey.txt example childish because you bend over for google . Thats the synopsis of this thread.

You fail to see the obvious , like " i dont ask google to connect to my server " , why should i have to follow google's TOS when they access MY server , i think you have it backwards , they need to follow MY tos when they access my server , thats not hard to understand, thats how the internet worked before google dominated.

they dominated by ignoring people's tos's

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 03:21 PM

frankly i think its rather childish of you to throw out insults to people who try to help you, then when your given a chance to verify your "childish" statements like " your just a sig whore " trying to undermine my credibility to cover up for your lack of answers, you tuck tail and run.. at least be a man and say "hey maybe i was wrong , sorry , i guess maybe you might know a thing or two about what your talking about we just have different opinions.. "

For the record anyone who ever wants to promote a sponsor i promote is more than happy to work with me to verify any numbers i state from the sponsor themselves .. i promote people i trust . I have never recieved one red dime from a sponsor BEFORE the decision to put the sig in was done. I make money from referalls but certainly not more than my sites

fr0gman · 03-05-2006, 03:22 PM

The relationship between SEO?s and SE? is just like the relationship between Blackjack card counters and the casinos. The casinos and law enforcement agree that card counting is not cheating, but if you get caught counting cards in a major casino you will be banned. The same thing applies to black-hat SEO. It is simply an act of using the system that the SEs created yet if you get caught ?using their system? to its maximum advantage you run the risk of getting banned. This is a risk that the card counters and the SEO takes and because the ?big boys? created the game they can decide who wins and who is not allowed to play.

For an average Joe-on-the-street to blow the whistle on someone for moving within the framework created by the ?system? is unconscionable. Why would you report someone for using the system as it was designed? Doing so would be the equivalent of making a personal decision that 45 MPH is as fast as you are comfortable driving then complaining about everyone that drives the speed limit.

If you see that others have achieved a level of success that you envy do not seek to undermine their success by reporting them as ?cheaters?. Do you homework and develop a better method for success. For as we all know, there are two ways to have the tallest building in town. One way is to build a taller building then your neighbors, and the other way is to tear all the other buildings down.

Learn to build.

BlackCrayon · 03-05-2006, 03:23 PM

personally i don't see any difference in black hat seo's and spammers. you are spamming search engines. if google didn't spider sites automatically you know damn well you'd be submitting to them the old fashioned way.

black hats make things totally unfair, they force everyone else to use black hat methods if we want to surpass them in the rankings and just keep making the se's make things harder and harder to get good listing because the black hats keep them changing the rules. you can blame the black hats for lack of se traffic for those who stick to the methods of content and backlinks.

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fr0gman

The relationship between SEO?s and SE? is just like the relationship between Blackjack card counters and the casinos. The casinos and law enforcement agree that card counting is not cheating, but if you get caught counting cards in a major casino you will be banned. The same thing applies to black-hat SEO. It is simply an act of using the system that the SEs created yet if you get caught ?using their system? to its maximum advantage you run the risk of getting banned. This is a risk that the card counters and the SEO takes and because the ?big boys? created the game they can decide who wins and who is not allowed to play.

For an average Joe-on-the-street to blow the whistle on someone for moving within the framework created by the ?system? is unconscionable. Why would you report someone for using the system as it was designed? Doing so would be the equivalent of making a personal decision that 45 MPH is as fast as you are comfortable driving then complaining about everyone that drives the speed limit.

If you see that others have achieved a level of success that you envy do not seek to undermine their success by reporting them as ?cheaters?. Do you homework and develop a better method for success. For as we all know, there are two ways to have the tallest building in town. One way is to build a taller building then your neighbors, and the other way is to tear all the other buildings down.

Learn to build.

Dear common sense

You do not belong here , common sense is not allowed

Thanks you kindly , irrational viewer

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

personally i don't see any difference in black hat seo's and spammers. you are spamming search engines. if google didn't spider sites automatically you know damn well you'd be submitting to them the old fashioned way.

black hats make things totally unfair, they force everyone else to use black hat methods if we want to surpass them in the rankings and just keep making the se's make things harder and harder to get good listing because the black hats keep them changing the rules. you can blame the black hats for lack of se traffic for those who stick to the methods of content and backlinks.

i will tell you the difference.. spammers send things.. getting listed on google doesnt require people to "send" anything

"black hats" make google work , if it didnt google would be broke. if the search engines showed perfect results, nobody would ever click on an ad, it wouldnt be profitable , black hat seo is what makes google work.. without blackhat google would be broke , close down and you wouldnt get a hit from google.. thank black hats for creating traffic for you

Rui · 03-05-2006, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young

yeah yeah...gangstah baby

Young · 03-05-2006, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fr0gman

The relationship between SEO?s and SE? is just like the relationship between Blackjack card counters and the casinos. The casinos and law enforcement agree that card counting is not cheating, but if you get caught counting cards in a major casino you will be banned. The same thing applies to black-hat SEO. It is simply an act of using the system that the SEs created yet if you get caught ?using their system? to its maximum advantage you run the risk of getting banned. This is a risk that the card counters and the SEO takes and because the ?big boys? created the game they can decide who wins and who is not allowed to play.

For an average Joe-on-the-street to blow the whistle on someone for moving within the framework created by the ?system? is unconscionable. Why would you report someone for using the system as it was designed? Doing so would be the equivalent of making a personal decision that 45 MPH is as fast as you are comfortable driving then complaining about everyone that drives the speed limit.

If you see that others have achieved a level of success that you envy do not seek to undermine their success by reporting them as ?cheaters?. Do you homework and develop a better method for success. For as we all know, there are two ways to have the tallest building in town. One way is to build a taller building then your neighbors, and the other way is to tear all the other buildings down.

Learn to build.

You should create a website that has absolutely nothing on it but this post.

brilliant.

and to the rest of you....stop crying you fucking babies.

uno · 03-05-2006, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Rats sleep with the fishes.

Getting psyched for the new season of The Sopranos, eh?

fr0gman · 03-05-2006, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

black hats make things totally unfair, they force everyone else to use black hat methods if we want to surpass them in the rankings and just keep making the se's make things harder and harder to get good listing because the black hats keep them changing the rules. you can blame the black hats for lack of se traffic for those who stick to the methods of content and backlinks.

Just out of curiosity, did you read this before you hit send?

To blame blackhat?s for your failure to rank is ridiculous. Blackhat SEO is the best thing to happen to this or any other industry that endeavors to do business online. Evaluate the activities of blackhats and build a better system so that everyone gets more relevant searches.

You are whining because you ?think? your keywords somehow belong to you and that you ?deserve? to be listed for some unknown internal reason.

The ONLY reason that SEs ban blackhat sites is because people like you drive them crazy crying because you got knocked off the tops spot for you favorite keywords. When is reality search engine results would not be 1/10 th are relevant as they are today were it not for people who use every available aspect of the system AS IT WAS CREATED by the SEs. You can call them blackhats of cheaters or Santa Claus, but the TRUTH is that some people use ALL that is available and others use only a portion? and then want to cry because they are not satisfied.

BlackCrayon · 03-05-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

i will tell you the difference.. spammers send things.. getting listed on google doesnt require people to "send" anything

"black hats" make google work , if it didnt google would be broke. if the search engines showed perfect results, nobody would ever click on an ad, it wouldnt be profitable , black hat seo is what makes google work.. without blackhat google would be broke , close down and you wouldnt get a hit from google.. thank black hats for creating traffic for you

no but when someone clicks a link on google and gets something other than what they were searching for, isn't that pretty similar to someone clicking on a misleading subject title in an email? i don't really follow your logic on making google work. if people got what they were searching for they would be more likely to do it again and trust googles listings, be it paid or free. when people do searches, get misleading sites or redirected or popped all over the place, they are going to be less likely to trust any links on google. does the average surfer really know the difference between paid and free listing anyways?

i used to get lots of hits from google just updating my site. now i get almost nothing. why? because they have changed their methods so much due to being swamped by seo spammers that regular sites rarely stand a chance without a huge number of backlinks. i gave up trying to compete because its impossible to compete with people who use throw away domain, throw away sites. they don't care if they get banned. they just get a new one and do it all over again.

fr0gman · 03-05-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young

You should create a website that has absolutely nothing on it but this post.

brilliant.

Thank you, thnak you...

I'll be here all week with shows at 4, 8 and midnight. If you like me tell your friends and if your friends like me... you need new friends.

Matt 26z · 03-05-2006, 03:48 PM

Would you rather opperate TheHun, or opperate a black hat SEO opperation that makes the same amount of money?

The answer here is obvious. One has financial security, and the other is a Google algorithm update away from shit hitting the fan.

Truly talented webmasters have no need for black hat to make their money. I'll say this again... It is for the losers of this industry who can't make an honest buck. They will say ANYTHING to justify what they are doing no matter how stupid it sounds.

All the while, hard working webmasters creating sites that surfers actually like are pushed to page 10.

BlackCrayon · 03-05-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fr0gman

Just out of curiosity, did you read this before you hit send?

To blame blackhat?s for your failure to rank is ridiculous. Blackhat SEO is the best thing to happen to this or any other industry that endeavors to do business online. Evaluate the activities of blackhats and build a better system so that everyone gets more relevant searches.

You are whining because you ?think? your keywords somehow belong to you and that you ?deserve? to be listed for some unknown internal reason.

The ONLY reason that SEs ban blackhat sites is because people like you drive them crazy crying because you got knocked off the tops spot for you favorite keywords. When is reality search engine results would not be 1/10 th are relevant as they are today were it not for people who use every available aspect of the system AS IT WAS CREATED by the SEs. You can call them blackhats of cheaters or Santa Claus, but the TRUTH is that some people use ALL that is available and others use only a portion? and then want to cry because they are not satisfied.

people can always justify what they do. your solution is that we have to employ black hat methods to compete. that doesn't seem right. i never cry to anyone about blackhats, except the odd post here when people are dicussing it. i would never report sites, i don't care enough to do so. it just pisses me off that such an un even playing field has been created. one that is basically impossible to compete with unless you have 1000's upon 1000's of backlinks and a long established site. if you are using methods that will get you banned in google, then you are abusing the system in my opinion. i once got banned for having keywords be the same color as the background of my site. i never got much in hits from google, it was just old shit from when that actually worked on aol, etc search engines but they banned me anyways. i very much doubt anyone complained about it.

crockett · 03-05-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadglni

When you fuck with peoples income you are asking for enough karma to fuck 3 generations of your family. Tell your great great grandkid it's your fault he lives in the ghetto.

one could easily argue that the black hat guys are fucking with the legit guy's incomes.

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Truly talented webmasters have no need for black hat to make their money.
.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

All the while, hard working webmasters creating sites that surfers actually like are pushed to page 10.

hmm make up your mind ,

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

one could easily argue that the black hat guys are fucking with the legit guy's incomes.

what is legit ? do you just mean " people that rank low ? "

one could argue the legit guys are fucking with the black hats income . lol

zigx · 03-05-2006, 03:56 PM

dood try asking this same question on www.webmasterworld.com

they have a HUGE repository of information.

One way u can do it is just submit their url to google's url removal form

Linguist · 03-05-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Would you rather opperate TheHun, or opperate a black hat SEO opperation that makes the same amount of money?

All the while, hard working webmasters creating sites that surfers actually like are pushed to page 10.

I'm not sure why I'm even arguing with you, everyone should have stopped taking you seriously after that MySpace thread, but anyway:

1. Given long-term income potential, TheHun is a better choice to own, that's obvious. What were you trying to get at? SEO and Hun's tactics are at complete opposites of the marketing spectrum.

2. Hardworking does not mean smart or computer savvy. If I spent 4 years of my life studying computer science at university, why the fuck would I want to resort to the same tactics as your "hard working" webmasters when I can automate things?

fr0gman · 03-05-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

people can always justify what they do. your solution is that we have to employ black hat methods to compete. that doesn't seem right. i never cry to anyone about blackhats, except the odd post here when people are dicussing it. i would never report sites, i don't care enough to do so. it just pisses me off that such an un even playing field has been created. one that is basically impossible to compete with unless you have 1000's upon 1000's of backlinks and a long established site. if you are using methods that will get you banned in google, then you are abusing the system in my opinion. i once got banned for having keywords be the same color as the background of my site. i never got much in hits from google, it was just old shit from when that actually worked on aol, etc search engines but they banned me anyways. i very much doubt anyone complained about it.

Google is just like eBay in that they do not police their listings. In order to attract the gaze of the Google Eye you have to have been reported.

This post has convinced me to stop listening to anything that you say. You admit to using blackhat tech to help get hits from Google (albeit, old and unproductive tech, but you DID IT nonetheless). Then in the next breath you condemn people for using what is offered successfully.

I have one last question for you: If your same-colored keywords had made you say $10k would we be having this discussion?

Your statement reminds me of a story told about the late W.C Fields.

Mr. Fields was at a posh gathering in London and the subject turned to world?s oldest profession and Fields asked one of the more vocal female conversationalists, ?Would you have sex with me for a million pounds?? To which the female replied, ?Of course, who wouldn?t??. Fields then asked, ?Would you have sex with me for 10 pounds?? and the woman said, ?Of course not. What do you take me for a common whore?? Fields concludes with, ?Madam, we have already established that. Now we are negotiating price.?

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fr0gman

Mr. Fields was at a posh gathering in London and the subject turned to world?s oldest profession and Fields asked one of the more vocal female conversationalists, ?Would you have sex with me for a million pounds?? To which the female replied, ?Of course, who wouldn?t??. Fields then asked, ?Would you have sex with me for 10 pounds?? and the woman said, ?Of course not. What do you take me for a common whore?? Fields concludes with, ?Madam, we have already established that. Now we are negotiating price.?

perfect quote.

crockett · 03-05-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

what is legit ? do you just mean " people that rank low ? "

one could argue the legit guys are fucking with the black hats income . lol

No I happen to hold a few very choice rankings and I've had them for a long time. I've been knocked off the top a time or two, but I always come back. Why? My sites are on target to the related search teams. I don't spam shit and it works well for me.

It might take a little time, but I know I will never be banned for doing shady BS. Don't think just because some of us do things legit, means we rank low.

Trust me I've thought about wasting a few domains and doing some black hat for the hell of it. Who knows I might try it.. However don't think the only way to get to the top is to be black hat.

Pornwolf · 03-05-2006, 04:30 PM

Chicks dig the black hat.

Pornwolf · 03-05-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

Getting psyched for the new season of The Sopranos, eh?

Always. When I hear a stugotz making a comment about ratting I think about making a call to Paulie.

BlackCrayon · 03-05-2006, 04:55 PM

its funny how you avoided basically every real point in my post and focused on the one where i try and show you that i am not some kind of asshole trying to get people banned or hating on everything. i did the keyword thing back before i knew what i was doing. the site that got banned was an old abandoned site that only got a few hundred hits a day, maybe 25 from google. i guess someone must of been pissed at me to report it. i figured they had bots scanning sites for such violations. maybe not. and i never did it to get hits from google, google didn't even exist when i made that site. and i think there is a huge difference between cloaking and redirection and having a few lines of keywords the same color as the background. if the keyword thing made me 10k, i would still disagree about using it.

anyways, the only point i was really trying to get across is its impossible to compete with black hat tactics with sites who value their content and domains and can't and won't risk them getting banned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fr0gman

Google is just like eBay in that they do not police their listings. In order to attract the gaze of the Google Eye you have to have been reported.

This post has convinced me to stop listening to anything that you say. You admit to using blackhat tech to help get hits from Google (albeit, old and unproductive tech, but you DID IT nonetheless). Then in the next breath you condemn people for using what is offered successfully.

I have one last question for you: If your same-colored keywords had made you say $10k would we be having this discussion?

Your statement reminds me of a story told about the late W.C Fields.

Mr. Fields was at a posh gathering in London and the subject turned to world?s oldest profession and Fields asked one of the more vocal female conversationalists, ?Would you have sex with me for a million pounds?? To which the female replied, ?Of course, who wouldn?t??. Fields then asked, ?Would you have sex with me for 10 pounds?? and the woman said, ?Of course not. What do you take me for a common whore?? Fields concludes with, ?Madam, we have already established that. Now we are negotiating price.?

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

No I happen to hold a few very choice rankings and I've had them for a long time. I've been knocked off the top a time or two, but I always come back. Why? My sites are on target to the related search teams. I don't spam shit and it works well for me.

It might take a little time, but I know I will never be banned for doing shady BS. Don't think just because some of us do things legit, means we rank low.

Trust me I've thought about wasting a few domains and doing some black hat for the hell of it. Who knows I might try it.. However don't think the only way to get to the top is to be black hat.

that wasnt my point at all. I was just questioning the validity of the term " legit" . Optimizing your page for google is un-legit period.. in google's eyes , anything you do to increase your rank , and you and i both know there arent very many sites ( almost ZERO ) including google itself that doesnt do things primarily to increase rank.. Its a double edged sword.. If you create pages and never once did anything to increase your rank , then i commend you for being one of the very few that can make a success using this method..

but take the devils advocate approach , when your site didnt rank better it was because the other site ranked higher, nothing less nothing more.. your rank has nothing to do with your ethics.. , sure there are ways to increase your se rank by doing unethical things , i'm not questioning that fact , im saying "black hat seo " and unethical are 2 seperate things

uno · 03-05-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pornwolf

Always. When I hear a stugotz making a comment about ratting I think about making a call to Paulie.

1 more week and itll be here. I really gotta move my ass to have thesopranos.com ready in time.

fr0gman · 03-05-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

its funny how you avoided basically every real point in my post ...

anyways, the only point i was really trying to get across is its impossible to compete with black hat tactics with sites who value their content and domains and can't and won't risk them getting banned.

There were no real points to avoid.

If you think anythingon the Internet is "impossible" then you are right.

Those who think they CAN and those who think they CAN'T are both correct.

Nothing is impossible my furry little Internet friend. You simply have to decided if you are going to take the necessary steps. I believe it was you, in a previous post who say, "i have given up trying". here is nothing I can do for you but assure you that I have NOT stoppped trying.

Love it or hate it: SEO is here to stay and will help mold the Googles of tomorrow.

Pornwolf · 03-05-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

1 more week and itll be here. I really gotta move my ass to have thesopranos.com ready in time.

Holy shit uno, that domain is gold. Whatcha waitin for?

jjjay · 03-05-2006, 06:34 PM

if someone cheats, who gives a fuck. it's the search engines job to find them

it's your job to make money. wasting your time ratting people out doesn't help you, especially as the se's ignore all those complaints anyway

chadglni · 03-05-2006, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

In this case, I don't trust anyone who you'd trust to look at your stats. Obviously you won't let them look, and they'll just come back here and post what you told them to post.

Sigh, here you are donking up another thread with your bullshit. Smokey has shit from one end of the search engines to the other and has for years. You are talking out of your ass again.

Smokey, I think this is the guy that got all pissy because someone redirected a file that myspacers were hotlinking. He is a tool in general.

BlackCrayon · 03-05-2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fr0gman

There were no real points to avoid.

If you think anythingon the Internet is "impossible" then you are right.

Those who think they CAN and those who think they CAN'T are both correct.

Nothing is impossible my furry little Internet friend. You simply have to decided if you are going to take the necessary steps. I believe it was you, in a previous post who say, "i have given up trying". here is nothing I can do for you but assure you that I have NOT stoppped trying.

Love it or hate it: SEO is here to stay and will help mold the Googles of tomorrow.

of course nothing is 'impossible' but its obvious to any idiot that people using black hat techniques are going to have an advantage over those who aren't. it seems 'sad' that the 'necessary' steps involve fucking people around. you probably promote spyware toolbars too.

baddog · 03-05-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uno

1 more week and itll be here. I really gotta move my ass to have thesopranos.com ready in time.

that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen

chadglni · 03-05-2006, 06:54 PM

As pointed out above, using google for any monetary gain is against their TOS. Keep fucking with people on your keywords and watch what happens once they get mad. Difference is you cost them another throwaway domain and they will eventually cost you your lifeline. Don't fuck with Karma, she will bite you in the ass.

The Google Services are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only. You may not use the Google Services to sell a product or service, or to increase traffic to your Web site for commercial reasons, such as advertising sales.

BlackCrayon · 03-05-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chadglni

As pointed out above, using google for any monetary gain is against their TOS. Keep fucking with people on your keywords and watch what happens once they get mad. Difference is you cost them another throwaway domain and they will eventually cost you your lifeline. Don't fuck with Karma, she will bite you in the ass.

The Google Services are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only. You may not use the Google Services to sell a product or service, or to increase traffic to your Web site for commercial reasons, such as advertising sales.

im guessing that tos doesn't apply to adwords?? anyways, black hatters can cost people sites they have worked on for years. the rankings anyways. i don't agree on reporting unless they have spyware on the site perhaps but it just seems like a slippery slope that will turn people off searching.

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

im guessing that tos doesn't apply to adwords?? anyways, black hatters can cost people sites they have worked on for years. the rankings anyways. i don't agree on reporting unless they have spyware on the site perhaps but it just seems like a slippery slope that will turn people off searching.

the tos is there so they can make people bend over when they want.. i suggest making your own tos , charge $5000 per link if people want to link to you. then call google black hatters for violating it..

google got busted last year keyword stuffing to make its own pages more relevent because it own algorithm was showing incorrect ( i.e. irrelevent pages )

That slippery slope started when google realised the shittier their results the more they make on adwords

they should just make the entire thing pps and make bank and cut use the money to monopolize everything else

crockett · 03-05-2006, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

that wasnt my point at all. I was just questioning the validity of the term " legit" . Optimizing your page for google is un-legit period.. in google's eyes , anything you do to increase your rank , and you and i both know there arent very many sites ( almost ZERO ) including google itself that doesnt do things primarily to increase rank.. Its a double edged sword.. If you create pages and never once did anything to increase your rank , then i commend you for being one of the very few that can make a success using this method..

but take the devils advocate approach , when your site didnt rank better it was because the other site ranked higher, nothing less nothing more.. your rank has nothing to do with your ethics.. , sure there are ways to increase your se rank by doing unethical things , i'm not questioning that fact , im saying "black hat seo " and unethical are 2 seperate things

Well doing a little to optimize your page, is a bit diffrenmt than lets say auto generating thousands of pages or cloaking a unrealated page with related garbage text and so on.

It's kinda like if everyone was driving 75mph in a 70mph speed limit, but one guy was doing 90mph.. Who do you think the cop is going to pull over?

Hornydog4cooter · 03-05-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeyTheBear

blah blah blah you make statements you cant backup . I make statement i backup with hard facts. Any sponsor is more than happy to verify my stats to another affiliate because i make good coin with them..

You obviously do care because you brought it up. not me..

You find my smokey.txt example childish because you bend over for google . Thats the synopsis of this thread.

You fail to see the obvious , like " i dont ask google to connect to my server " , why should i have to follow google's TOS when they access MY server , i think you have it backwards , they need to follow MY tos when they access my server , thats not hard to understand, thats how the internet worked before google dominated.

they dominated by ignoring people's tos's

Never thought of ot that way good point

SmokeyTheBear · 03-05-2006, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Well doing a little to optimize your page, is a bit diffrenmt than lets say auto generating thousands of pages or cloaking a unrealated page with related garbage text and so on.

It's kinda like if everyone was driving 75mph in a 70mph speed limit, but one guy was doing 90mph.. Who do you think the cop is going to pull over?

in realistic terms yes , to google no, google doesnt care what the optimization is , its pretty clear , dont optimize, dont use google to advertise, and done use google for profit.. its right there in the tos

its exactly like the example you posted .. most people do 5-10 over the speed limit then bitch about the guy going 20

the cop will pull you both over if he is doing his job.. if he isnt he will let some go , and bust others with no discernable pattern.

chadglni · 03-05-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

im guessing that tos doesn't apply to adwords?? anyways, black hatters can cost people sites they have worked on for years. the rankings anyways. i don't agree on reporting unless they have spyware on the site perhaps but it just seems like a slippery slope that will turn people off searching.

It is explicitly against adwords TOS to make pages for the sole purpose of displaying adwords.

BigMaster · 03-05-2006, 08:25 PM

Ok to set this strait i work for google they wont do a damn thing you can report them but they wont be sandbox'd untill the next update in may. Also google does not remove cheaters if you are making them money by adsence unless it is auto generated content and trips there filters!

swami · 03-05-2006, 09:12 PM

So called black hat tries to beat so called white hat by taking shortcuts.So called white hat tries to beat so called black hat by making spam reports.
All is fair in Love and War.Get over it both sides.

Oh and Bigmaster, you're a fuckwit.
Now Go ahead and ban my sites.

jjjay · 03-06-2006, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackCrayon

personally i don't see any difference in black hat seo's and spammers. you are spamming search engines. if google didn't spider sites automatically you know damn well you'd be submitting to them the old fashioned way.

black hats make things totally unfair, they force everyone else to use black hat methods if we want to surpass them in the rankings and just keep making the se's make things harder and harder to get good listing because the black hats keep them changing the rules. you can blame the black hats for lack of se traffic for those who stick to the methods of content and backlinks.

cry me a fucking river

jjjay · 03-06-2006, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt 26z

Would you rather opperate TheHun, or opperate a black hat SEO opperation that makes the same amount of money?

The answer here is obvious. One has financial security, and the other is a Google algorithm update away from shit hitting the fan.

Truly talented webmasters have no need for black hat to make their money. I'll say this again... It is for the losers of this industry who can't make an honest buck. They will say ANYTHING to justify what they are doing no matter how stupid it sounds.

All the while, hard working webmasters creating sites that surfers actually like are pushed to page 10.

can't believe I'm going to respond to this drivel

fact: experienced seo's use what works, which is usually a mix of black/white/gray seo, so that they cover all the cases and aren't wiped out by algo changes. plus they make the most money this way

but you please feel free to ignore profitable tactics. more money for the rest of us

jjjay · 03-06-2006, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

one could easily argue that the black hat guys are fucking with the legit guy's incomes.

there's nothing illegal about it, and that's how business works - on competition

survival of the fittest companies. if you can't compete, don't play

uno · 03-06-2006, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen

Been there, done that... i'm sure i've told you the story before.

03-05-2006, 03:21 PM	#56
SmokeyTheBear ►SouthOfHeaven Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: PlanetEarth MyBoardRank: GerbilMaster My-Penis-Size: extralarge MyWeapon: Computer Posts: 28,609	frankly i think its rather childish of you to throw out insults to people who try to help you, then when your given a chance to verify your "childish" statements like " your just a sig whore " trying to undermine my credibility to cover up for your lack of answers, you tuck tail and run.. at least be a man and say "hey maybe i was wrong , sorry , i guess maybe you might know a thing or two about what your talking about we just have different opinions.. " For the record anyone who ever wants to promote a sponsor i promote is more than happy to work with me to verify any numbers i state from the sponsor themselves .. i promote people i trust . I have never recieved one red dime from a sponsor BEFORE the decision to put the sig in was done. I make money from referalls but certainly not more than my sites __________________ hatisblack at yahoo.com

03-05-2006, 03:22 PM	#57
fr0gman Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 2,093	The relationship between SEO?s and SE? is just like the relationship between Blackjack card counters and the casinos. The casinos and law enforcement agree that card counting is not cheating, but if you get caught counting cards in a major casino you will be banned. The same thing applies to black-hat SEO. It is simply an act of using the system that the SEs created yet if you get caught ?using their system? to its maximum advantage you run the risk of getting banned. This is a risk that the card counters and the SEO takes and because the ?big boys? created the game they can decide who wins and who is not allowed to play. For an average Joe-on-the-street to blow the whistle on someone for moving within the framework created by the ?system? is unconscionable. Why would you report someone for using the system as it was designed? Doing so would be the equivalent of making a personal decision that 45 MPH is as fast as you are comfortable driving then complaining about everyone that drives the speed limit. If you see that others have achieved a level of success that you envy do not seek to undermine their success by reporting them as ?cheaters?. Do you homework and develop a better method for success. For as we all know, there are two ways to have the tallest building in town. One way is to build a taller building then your neighbors, and the other way is to tear all the other buildings down. Learn to build. __________________ Earn up to $.03 per Visitor -> No Click Monetization! "Because the World Wide Web is all about two things: horrifyingly stupid psychodrama, and naked chicks." Wild College Videos \| ICQ: 7746696

03-05-2006, 03:23 PM	#58
BlackCrayon Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Ottawa Posts: 19,631	personally i don't see any difference in black hat seo's and spammers. you are spamming search engines. if google didn't spider sites automatically you know damn well you'd be submitting to them the old fashioned way. black hats make things totally unfair, they force everyone else to use black hat methods if we want to surpass them in the rankings and just keep making the se's make things harder and harder to get good listing because the black hats keep them changing the rules. you can blame the black hats for lack of se traffic for those who stick to the methods of content and backlinks. __________________ you don't know you're wearing a leash if you sit by the peg all day..

03-05-2006, 03:56 PM	#72
zigx Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Burlingame CA Posts: 1,430	dood try asking this same question on www.webmasterworld.com they have a HUGE repository of information. One way u can do it is just submit their url to google's url removal form __________________ _,.:'`- Club JK . com --> 60% payouts RSS, Hosteds, POTD, Your Mother, etc... CCBill

03-05-2006, 04:30 PM	#77
Pornwolf Drunk and Unruly Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hollywood Posts: 22,712	Chicks dig the black hat. __________________ I've trusted my sites to them for over a decade... Webair, bitches.

03-05-2006, 03:07 PM	#53
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	I'm quite certain ND is not interested in playing our little GFY games considering they don't even post here. If you make that, great. If not, I don't care either. I just find your "they should be using my smokey.txt and not robots.txt to remove my site, or I've got rights to nail them!" mentality to be on the childish side. But whatever....... I'm gone.

03-05-2006, 03:08 PM	#54
Young Bland for life Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 10,468

03-05-2006, 03:48 PM	#67
Matt 26z So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: ¤ª"˜¨๑۩۞۩๑¨˜"ª¤ Posts: 18,481	Would you rather opperate TheHun, or opperate a black hat SEO opperation that makes the same amount of money? The answer here is obvious. One has financial security, and the other is a Google algorithm update away from shit hitting the fan. Truly talented webmasters have no need for black hat to make their money. I'll say this again... It is for the losers of this industry who can't make an honest buck. They will say ANYTHING to justify what they are doing no matter how stupid it sounds. All the while, hard working webmasters creating sites that surfers actually like are pushed to page 10.

03-05-2006, 06:34 PM	#84
jjjay Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,813	if someone cheats, who gives a fuck. it's the search engines job to find them it's your job to make money. wasting your time ratting people out doesn't help you, especially as the se's ignore all those complaints anyway

03-05-2006, 06:54 PM	#88
chadglni Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: PEI, Canada Posts: 6,924	As pointed out above, using google for any monetary gain is against their TOS. Keep fucking with people on your keywords and watch what happens once they get mad. Difference is you cost them another throwaway domain and they will eventually cost you your lifeline. Don't fuck with Karma, she will bite you in the ass. The Google Services are made available for your personal, non-commercial use only. You may not use the Google Services to sell a product or service, or to increase traffic to your Web site for commercial reasons, such as advertising sales. __________________ Sign up here - Dating Site affiliate program

03-05-2006, 08:25 PM	#95
BigMaster Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 226	Ok to set this strait i work for google they wont do a damn thing you can report them but they wont be sandbox'd untill the next update in may. Also google does not remove cheaters if you are making them money by adsence unless it is auto generated content and trips there filters! __________________ http://hotornotsex.us Come rate Hot College Pussy Here

03-05-2006, 09:12 PM	#96
swami Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: vanuatu Posts: 1,989	So called black hat tries to beat so called white hat by taking shortcuts.So called white hat tries to beat so called black hat by making spam reports. All is fair in Love and War.Get over it both sides. Oh and Bigmaster, you're a fuckwit. Now Go ahead and ban my sites.