Program Owners / Affiliate Reps Inside Please II - (Business Thread, VOTE NOW!)

[mfps]

Originally Posted by mfps

please read this post in this thread.

this poll is in reference to steps 8 and 9.

you guys handle all kinds of traffic.
is it better for you to have more saturation, or to have higher quality campaigns?

please vote and discuss.
thanks to rochard for the thread that got me thinking.

[mfps]

bump for discussion.

[The Ghost]

By more saturation, are you talking about a more general content program vs. niche?

[mfps]

saturation = 500 FHG bulk imported into my gallery pool.

quality = one handbuilt gallery made from zipped or members area content.

[The Ghost]

It's a balance to offer fresh quality for promoting the product and not to have essentially the entire site out there. This is only possible if you have a quality product and alot of it. Are you specific on a niche? There are lots of other ways to sell product besides galleries, and some excel quite well in other areas.

More details would get you a more detailed response

[mfps]

please click and read the links in the first post.

that should be all the detail you need to answer this.

[RRRED]

Since the quality of our content is so high and there is SO MUCH OF IT, we want as much of it out there as possible. We have millions.. MILLIONS of images and videos that we let the webmasters use for promotion. So it's not like you're seeing the same old grainy crap fhgs on every free site out there.

[The Ghost]

Originally Posted by mfps

please click and read the links in the first post.

that should be all the detail you need to answer this.

I read through your original post. Very good points in there. There are both real and perceived issues with saturation. Is a product truly "saturated"? Saturation means that the customers for this product have already been reached and though an affiliates exact sales methods. The internet is a big place, but there are times where affiliates can overlap marketing efforts. The way to deal with this is to have an immense amount of promotional content available and be able to provide custom promo material to individual affiliates. But having high quality creatives helps immensely, since each gallery, image, etc will be more effective, and excusivity won't be as much of an issue.

Many times webmasters perceive saturation, which is a much larger problem than the actual saturation it's. If a webmaster does not want to try and promote your product because of the fact they've seen it everywhere, hence thinking there is no more profit in selling the site. It is something that could be true.

There are a few new programs that have their programs put together better than many of the older established programs. They have to. It's an extremely competetive business, and you have to earn the trust of those you do business with. That type of trust is not built overnight, and many times immediate initial success is the only way for a longer trial of your program.

But the goal is to have new partners try to sell your product and feel confident doing so. I am always on icq if you'd like to talk more

[mfps]

Originally Posted by RRRED

Since the quality of our content is so high and there is SO MUCH OF IT, we want as much of it out there as possible. We have millions.. MILLIONS of images and videos that we let the webmasters use for promotion. So it's not like you're seeing the same old grainy crap fhgs on every free site out there.

QUESTION: would you be happier to see 6 of your FHG thumbs at 90x120 in 'todays galleries' as opposed to 1 unique thumb at 185x245?


i understand that you need a good mix of everything, but from this side of the fence my goal would be to have my product on every page of the interweb.

Originally Posted by The Ghost

I read through your original post. Very good points in there. There are both real and perceived issues with saturation. Is a product truly "saturated"? Saturation means that the customers for this product have already been reached and though an affiliates exact sales methods. The internet is a big place, but there are times where affiliates can overlap marketing efforts. The way to deal with this is to have an immense amount of promotional content available and be able to provide custom promo material to individual affiliates. But having high quality creatives helps immensely, since each gallery, image, etc will be more effective, and excusivity won't be as much of an issue.

this is a great response, thanks for taking the time
im not sure saturated was the word i should have used, but i sure do like the sound of it. . .
i didnt mean to imply 'already been reached' necessarily.
but i think it would be great to be the 'pepsi' of your chosen niche(s).
the more i think about it, the better 'already been reached' fits.

QUESTION: is market saturation one of your goals as a program?

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Many times webmasters perceive saturation, which is a much larger problem than the actual saturation it's. If a webmaster does not want to try and promote your product because of the fact they've seen it everywhere, hence thinking there is no more profit in selling the site. It is something that could be true.

now, i had not considered this at all. . .
i would think that this sort of saturation would encourage growth.
if store a, store b, and store c has this product why don't i?

PLEASE DISCUSS

Originally Posted by The Ghost

There are a few new programs that have their programs put together better than many of the older established programs. They have to. It's an extremely competetive business, and you have to earn the trust of those you do business with. That type of trust is not built overnight, and many times immediate initial success is the only way for a longer trial of your program.

But the goal is to have new partners try to sell your product and feel confident doing so.

immediate initial success is a great motivation

lets talk about trustbuilding. . .

from this post in this thread:

Originally Posted by jayeff

Give major affiliates a small edge because it is expected, but don't lose sight of the reality that a dollar from you is worth exactly the same as a dollar from any other sponsor. Many sponsors have already dug themselves a pit, responding to "whales" by paying them too much. They may have got away with it because a lot of webmasters who should know better, are blinded by payout rates just as much as newbies. A smart affiliate knows that his/her bottom line is affected much more by a site's saleability and his/her own efforts, than whether the payout rate is plus or minus a few points.

It is far more effective and cheaper to let solid sales take care of the strictly financial aspect of your relationship on their own and introduce intangibles which are not so easily duplicated. The most effective target is the affiliate's ego (which BTW is what giving them that financial edge is really about, more than it is about the dollars involved).

To this end, keep major affiliates away from reps as much as possible. There are exceptions, but most reps are low-level employees with limited experience and not usually allowed to exercise much initiative. It should be obvious that the average rep has little if anything to offer the most experienced and successful affiliates. -more-

these all seem like valid points.
i guess i am naive, i had not considered that major affiliates might get better deals. (and that it was 'expected')

'The most effective target is the affiliate's ego'

a little stroking goes a long way.

i liked the point about keeping major affiliates away from reps.

last question for this post . . .

QUESTION: at what point should i refuse to deal with reps, and start planning golf dates with the program owners?

thanks for getting this discussion started,

its fascinating to hear what you think.

keep those opinions rolling

[footmonkey]

Interesting points. All out FHGs are from members area content, only a fraction of our members area is in the free area. I'd like to see them posted in as many places as possible but we're definitely quality over quantity.

[mfps]

bump for more discussion

[The Ghost]

[quote]

Originally Posted by mfps

QUESTION: would you be happier to see 6 of your FHG thumbs at 90x120 in 'todays galleries' as opposed to 1 unique thumb at 185x245?


i understand that you need a good mix of everything, but from this side of the fence my goal would be to have my product on every page of the interweb.

For RRRed

this is a great response, thanks for taking the time
im not sure saturated was the word i should have used, but i sure do like the sound of it. . .
i didnt mean to imply 'already been reached' necessarily.
but i think it would be great to be the 'pepsi' of your chosen niche(s).
the more i think about it, the better 'already been reached' fits.

QUESTION: is market saturation one of your goals as a program?

Have your product promoted in the most possible places is the goal of most programs. There will always be places where certain products might not excel... for example, a teen gallery on a bbw tgp. However, there will always be opportunities to make sales even in examples like that. Very few customers are only loyal to ONE niche in their sexual viewing all the time. I know personally there are times where I feel like watching hardcore stuff, and times where I feel like seeing some softcore tease.

One thing is clear. Someone can not purchase your product if they do not know it exists.

now, i had not considered this at all. . .
i would think that this sort of saturation would encourage growth.
if store a, store b, and store c has this product why don't i?

PLEASE DISCUSS

This is the case with extremely strong brands... i.e., Lightspeed, Mayors Money, Naughty America, Ox Cash, PanchoDog, etc. (<--- programs named for example purposes only). Since their products are everywhere, affiliates might assume that they would make the most money with those products, i.e. the Pepsi theory. But some affiliates want to have the feeling they are getting the best bang for their buck when they take the time to promote a product. Those affiliates would actively search out smaller programs that are not heavily promoted on the boards or other means under the guise that they'll be only one of the few promoting the product. And in essence, less competition for them. This is where custom and fresh content helps to make some of the larger program .... large. All affiliates should always keep an eye on their bottom line.

immediate initial success is a great motivation

lets talk about trustbuilding. . .

from this post in this thread:


these all seem like valid points.
i guess i am naive, i had not considered that major affiliates might get better deals. (and that it was 'expected')

'The most effective target is the affiliate's ego'

a little stroking goes a long way.

i liked the point about keeping major affiliates away from reps.

Any major affiliate (and 'major' would be defined by the size of the program), should always have a great relationship with program owner. I wouldn't describe great relationships with affiliates as 'ego stroking', since to me that sounds insincere. In my mind, it would never hurt to have your affiliates feel good about supporting your program. It's one of our goals. Having affiliates make a great income, and feeling good doing so, is a great accomplishment.

There are a few ways to work incentives to affiliates, with the main one being pay based. Certain affiliates are able to bring in higher quality customers than others. This meaning their average customer rebills longer and the affiliate campaigns cost less to the sponsor.

There is so much weight given to general conversion numbers that I can see programs paying a lions share to get an affiliate that can bring in enough sales at an incredibly low conversion ration just to be able to use the sales tactic of "see.... WE convert 1:xxx!!!!" It is a great sales pitch, because it gives encouragement to try a program. Once an affiliate sees those numbers, I can imagine the calculator already coming out and figuring out the their perceived profit even before the first hit is sent.

There are few ways that programs can make those numbers look different, measuring raw hits, uniques, second page, third page, join page or some other means of defining what a "qualified hit" would be that it should never be a real measure of overall success. Stated ratios are sales tool unless they are your own. There will also always be certain traffic types that are going to do better than others.

last question for this post . . .

QUESTION: at what point should i refuse to deal with reps, and start planning golf dates with the program owners?

I feel that all affiliates should have at least some contact with the program owner, if only to get a sense of the business direction and core of the company . I do know also as an owner that there's never enough hours in the day to get everything done, that's why you need others to help go in the right direction. Good reps are crucial to helping your campaigns go and their job is to help you be successful. You should know pretty fast if your rep is quality. Even if they are 'low level' employees, they are a direct reflection of the program it's self. I would never expect a rep to know everything, but who you deal with at a company, be it a sales rep or the programs owner, should be weighed into the decision as to what program to promote.

.... and hit me up for some golf

thanks for getting this discussion started,

its fascinating to hear what you think.

keep those opinions rolling

My pleasure.

[mfps]

Originally Posted by The Ghost

For RRRed

bump for RRRed

seriously though folks (if you are still reading this ), feel free to answer any of these questions at any point in the discussion, im not trying to single any one person out for questioning

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Have your product promoted in the most possible places is the goal of most programs. There will always be places where certain products might not excel... for example, a teen gallery on a bbw tgp. However, there will always be opportunities to make sales even in examples like that. Very few customers are only loyal to ONE niche in their sexual viewing all the time. I know personally there are times where I feel like watching hardcore stuff, and times where I feel like seeing some softcore tease.

One thing is clear. Someone can not purchase your product if they do not know it exists.

i agree, man cannot live on bread alone.

Originally Posted by The Ghost

This is the case with extremely strong brands... i.e., Lightspeed, Mayors Money, Naughty America, Ox Cash, PanchoDog, etc. (<--- programs named for example purposes only). Since their products are everywhere, affiliates might assume that they would make the most money with those products, i.e. the Pepsi theory. But some affiliates want to have the feeling they are getting the best bang for their buck when they take the time to promote a product. Those affiliates would actively search out smaller programs that are not heavily promoted on the boards or other means under the guise that they'll be only one of the few promoting the product. And in essence, less competition for them. This is where custom and fresh content helps to make some of the larger program .... large. All affiliates should always keep an eye on their bottom line.

i enjoy the brand/product (as opposed to program/content) context. . .

that being said. . .
i tend to promote the brands that make it easiest for me to do so.
those are usually the bigger programs from my experience, but i can think of a couple big ones that i did not find so easy. . .

i think it might be time for me to start focusing more on dollar signs and less on keeping the process quick and dirty.

Originally Posted by The Ghost

Any major affiliate (and 'major' would be defined by the size of the program), should always have a great relationship with program owner. I wouldn't describe great relationships with affiliates as 'ego stroking', since to me that sounds insincere. In my mind, it would never hurt to have your affiliates feel good about supporting your program. It's one of our goals. Having affiliates make a great income, and feeling good doing so, is a great accomplishment.

There are a few ways to work incentives to affiliates, with the main one being pay based. Certain affiliates are able to bring in higher quality customers than others. This meaning their average customer rebills longer and the affiliate campaigns cost less to the sponsor.

There is so much weight given to general conversion numbers that I can see programs paying a lions share to get an affiliate that can bring in enough sales at an incredibly low conversion ration just to be able to use the sales tactic of "see.... WE convert 1:xxx!!!!" It is a great sales pitch, because it gives encouragement to try a program. Once an affiliate sees those numbers, I can imagine the calculator already coming out and figuring out the their perceived profit even before the first hit is sent.

i agree about ego stroking as insincere, but we live in an insincere world.
im glad sincerity is a factor to you

'Having affiliates make a great income, and feeling good doing so, is a great accomplishment.'

is that in your mission statement?
that line worked for me (and i know you werent fishing), im headed to island dollars after i wrap up this post.

calculator in hand

really tho-

couldnt you just make up a number and throw it out to the masses?

i convert 1 in 13 off taiwanese cj traffic

it kinda feels like lying either way.

Originally Posted by The Ghost

There are few ways that programs can make those numbers look different, measuring raw hits, uniques, second page, third page, join page or some other means of defining what a "qualified hit" would be that it should never be a real measure of overall success. Stated ratios are sales tool unless they are your own. There will also always be certain traffic types that are going to do better than others.

in my opinion the only honest way to read those numbers is raw hits to the tour.

personally, i look at hits out to galleries.
from my stats, my conversion numbers are more like 1:xxxxx
i see this as the nature of the tgp beast.

the surfer gets what he's looking for too soon, and never pulls out his wallet.

lets compare this with drug dealing:

give the customer enough to get off a few times,
get him hooked on your product.
make him pay for more.

so it would seem that free trials are the way to go.
ive heard mixed opionions about this.

its been said that if the customer has the card in hand and is ready to spend the money, it doesnt matter if its free, or 1.99, or 39.99, he will buy it.

QUESTION: does it help to offer free, or discounted trial offers? do you see effective upsell ratios at the end of the term? how about rebills?

Originally Posted by The Ghost

I feel that all affiliates should have at least some contact with the program owner, if only to get a sense of the business direction and core of the company . I do know also as an owner that there's never enough hours in the day to get everything done, that's why you need others to help go in the right direction. Good reps are crucial to helping your campaigns go and their job is to help you be successful. You should know pretty fast if your rep is quality. Even if they are 'low level' employees, they are a direct reflection of the program it's self. I would never expect a rep to know everything, but who you deal with at a company, be it a sales rep or the programs owner, should be weighed into the decision as to what program to promote.

i have met the owners of two of the brands that i promote.
i have met reps from a couple others.

at the end of the day, it doesnt matter so much to me whether im dealing with an owner or a rep, just that i like the person on the other side of the table.

i will do anything for my friends, and i dont really like doing business with people that arent.

win/win/win.

Originally Posted by The Ghost

.... and hit me up for some golf

i am a terrible golfer

thanks again for keeping this thread alive, im really getting a lot out of it.
i wish more people would take the time.

[mfps]

late night discussion bump