Disband the Free Speech Coalition, Should we start our own? - Page 2 - GoFuckYourself.com

pussyluver · 08-02-2006, 07:41 PM

Thanks for your efforts Dave Cummings! I wasn't aware of your activity.

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Dave I love ya but I hate to tell ya that you are a primary producer and the FSC injunction doesn't help you or exempt you in any way.

If you produce your own content, then you are required to keep proper identification records as defined by the 11+ year law.

While FSC is challenging all of 2257, i believe that the provisions for primary record keepers will stick.

It makes sense... that primary record keepers be responsible for ensuring that minors are not used, and to document which production material the performer was in.. such that in case it was a minor (ie. they had fake documentation), then it would be possible to track down the instances of that performer in content, and have the word be broadcasted out to take down that content.

Websites that license the content have on the whole, failed in their responsibilties of 2257.. that so many can't identify which content came from which place.

the 2257.html page is not good enough for compliance and does nothing to be able to do something when finding out that a particular content set or video was found to be underaged.

Compliance with 2257 means taking the law seriously and understanding what to do.. which i have had countless threads and posts to explain it. and for the most part, is quite easy.. its a recordkeeping issue, which the word "recordkeeping" is in the title of 2257.

What is a problem is the new 2257 language introduced by ashcroft to require secondary record keepers (websites that use the content) to have the 2257 documentation.

This is quite burdensome and a great violation of privacy towards the models.. that when you license content, it should be the responsibility of the content producer to have good records, but also the responsibility of the website that shows the images to be able to attribute each and every image to which content producer.

Going forward, the simple answer is to tag the filename or the folder with some ID that ties back to where the content came from.

So the FSC can't really help content producers, they have a legal responsibility that in the original 2257 language seems reasonable.. the new additions to both primary and secondary record keepers goes over the top and does further to protect child from being used in content, to actually be used to shutdown adult websites due to ignorance in the law and the burdensome requirements to do so.

This is one of the main challenges FSC is doing on the secondary record keeper front which is VERY significant and very much needed.

Content producers for the most part on the video site, have been complying with 2257 for a long time.. it's the internet side of content producers who have enjoyed the wild west of growth and have largely ignored the responsibility to document properly and failure to even consult with an attorney with 2257 understanding.

Has this clarified the issue on 2257 and primary record keepers and FSC?

Fight the 411 on 2257!

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

What the FSC lacks and has always lacked is accountability and as such it lacks credibility

point taken.. and i would say that FSC is accountable.. its accountable to its members... if the members don't like what is going on, there are many forums where they are able to express that in votes and in various meetings.

If you believe there are sufficient problems at FSC, then FSC directors should be held accountable, and that is done by the members expressing themselves.

As an independent thinker, you could do more for FSC with your constructive criticisms and ideas by getting its members to pay attention to the deficits and hold the directors accountable.

If the directors are doing their job in steering the organization, then the members are being represented.... if they are not, then new directors should be voted in.

FSC directors are voted by the members....... if you don't vote, you can't bitch.

Fight the beep!

MikeHawk · 08-02-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Lets Talk About The Free Speech Coalition:
(from todays www.mikesouth.com)

Michelle Freeridge, the Executive Director, is stepping down and the FSC is looking for someone to fill her shoes. Noe I don't know Michelle and I can't testify as to anything she may have or have not done during her time there.

In all of the stories about her departure it's always mentioned how little money the FSC gets and how little support from the industry and you know what? We don't support the FSC very well but then one must also ask the question why?

I think the reason is that by and large the Free Speech Coalition doesn't support us very well.

I have been around pretty much since the inception of the Free Speech Coalition and I can't name much that they have accomplished other than getting two record keeping cases set aside for secondary producers. That isn't anything that will win accolades from most porners, who happen to be primary producers.

The largest support bases are virtually ignored, performers and adult webmasters see little use for the FSC...Why? Because there is no value, no return on investment. Most webmasters agree that the current challenge to 2257 on behalf of secondary producers is more motivated by the fact that AVN is a secondary producer than it is anything to protect the adult web, and just what do performers get out of a membership? Nothing, that's what.

But is it the FSC's fault? You must first look at who the FSC is, ie a board of directors and many of the highest ranking people, as well as the largest monetary supporters are big porn companies, companies who have a vested interest in keeping pressure on the smaller companies and particularly on the adult web, so any progressive move to help in those areas is likely to get bogged down.

The Free Speech Coalition has become synonymous with inaction and ineptitude, I said a long time ago that if it really wants to be successful it must first rename and reinvent itself.

What I would like to see come out of the organization are some clearly defined goals here are some ideas for you guys:

Instead of trying to hire your own lobbyists, you should make it a priority to align yourself with better funded and more serious organizations like the ACLU, not to be a leech, but to give yourselves some clout.

Video as we know it is near extinction, the internet is the future of porn, if not the present. You best wake up to that fact and start making visible efforts to show adult webmasters that membership has it's benefits. Simply saying "we are your organization because we say we are now give us money" doesn't cut it. If you want money and support you must earn it. For example I would have no problem paying the FSC a thousand dollars a year if I knew that so long as I stayed within certain guidelines the FSC would be four square in my corner should I be prosecuted, that simply isn't the case, as of right now that money gets me nothing but an attaboy.

The FSC needs to hire Adella or someone like her to do it's PR. Outside the adult industry who has heard of 2257? Mainstream media pays it no attention because it just affects porners...or so they think. Explain to them how it allows the FBI to enter your home with no warrant, no probable cause and no due process so that they can hold you at gunpoint until you can prove you didn't commit a crime that never happened. If it can happen to us, it can happen to anyone.

You have to get performers involved and just like with everyone else that means you have to return something of value for the money, maybe its a group health plan, maybe its legal assistance or ongoing education or paralegal services or maybe you get together with AIM and offer discounted testing to FSC members. Whatever it is you have to do it, you won't survive without the performers.

Ok so there's a few ideas off the top of my head, I would hope that you can come up with some of your own. Chances are that whoever replaces Michelle will have read this, you have your work cut out for you, personaly I hope you succeed but I bet you won't. I bet the good old FSC runs business as usual, no plans, no goals just the give me money mentality that one finds in lazy strippers who feel they shouldn't have to earn it, it should simply be bestowed upon them.

OK FSC, PROVE ME WRONG....

And No Im not running for Executive Director, I am way too far away from Los Angeles even though I could do a better job than has been done in the past via telecommuting, don't believe me? Name 3 things the FSC has done that is worth 25.00 to you in all the last ten years combined. Go ahead...give it a shot.

Hey Mike,
Here is something that I think you left out, the reason the FSC does not have support of our industry is because of this very reason...lol you opinion matters and it is important to you...but as you said. yes the Video biz is heading digital, and we better wake the fuck up.

I have been ringing this bell on this board so long my arm now hurts...nobody in our biz cares...its sad really. Many friends of mine in the Video biz kind of laugh at the internet group, "not to smart" are what they say.

So I say this...instead of pointing out all the faults of a group that clearly is trying to help us, why doesn?t someone come up with a plan to put our entire biz together as one group?

And. it?s not fair to the none member?s of the FSC (they have zero protection), that would mean they either did not support the group or did not pay or both, and last time I checked none of my lawyers work for free...

So our industry would be better off it got smart stopped drinking themselves to death at shows and took the biz as serious as they should.....big brother is circling the wagons and nobody seems to give a fuck...

We support the FSC, they work hard its not a game, it must be hard to go to bat for an industry that cares more about the dumb shit stuff instead of staying in biz

So I say 'LAY OUT A PLAN THAT WORKS FOR OUR INDUSTRY...AND LETS RUN WITH IT" it?s easy to play "Arm chair quarterback" loll

Here is the best part of all this , I read this blather from folks on this board that consider themselves ?gifted? or ?super intellectuals? boarding on ?genius?s? and all I see all the time is Blah blah blah?post post post?blah blah blah?.all of your mighty words, and NOT ONE SINGLE ACTON?NADA?NOTHING?

I don?t know about anyone else if you want to sit back and say somethings not right and go on and on about it, do this, ?shut the fuck up, and do something about it?.how about that?lol

This does not apply to any one person or group but to just about ?everybody?

.

mikesouth · 08-02-2006, 08:20 PM

Actually it makes no sense whatsoever

alcohol and cigarettes are far more harnmful to children so would you advocate forcing alcohol and tobacco companies be subject to the same regulations?

Why should someone be jailed and fined for not being able to prove that he didnt commit a crime that never happened?

So its OK for you that the FBI can enter your home or business with no warrant, no probable cause and no due process, just so that they can "protect the children"?

At what point do we just get rid of the first fourth andf fifth amendments completely and roll over and allow the feds to do as they please with us so long as they protect our poor children from evil

Fuck you

minusonebit · 08-02-2006, 08:26 PM

Should we start our own? Maybe, maybe not.

The adult industry desperately needs an industry trade group whose leaders are elected by the membership and who have strict term limits. This group should retain its own lobbyists and actually organize things and go after some cases. When I think of the FSC, I cannot recall any remarkable accomplishments they have made. So yes, a change is in order.

On the other hand, this industry is plauged by alot of thick-headed fools who are so greedy that they dont realize they are cutting thier own throats a few years down the road. Alot of people in this industry fail to see that sometimes we need to come together and join even people we utterly detest in order to get something done for the good of all. This industry has failed to organize in the worst way. It continues to remain fragmented with everybody doing thier own thing and no real game plan for the future.

But the one thing we should NOT do is support the ACLU. The ACLU has done very little in representing real free speech cases. They spend an incredible amount of time and resources making sure that women can get an abortion at taxpayer expense (I'm all for abortions, but not at public expense) and making sure illegal immigrants have all the rights I am supposed to be enjoying (which I am not for) and am entitled to. Look at the cases the ACLU is fighting now and you'll see most of them have to do with protecting the "rights" of foreigners and illegals and fighting for free abortions. I dropped my membership in the ACLU years ago when they stopped fighting the real issues.

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

So its OK for you that the FBI can enter your home or business with no warrant, no probable cause and no due process, just so that they can "protect the children"?

this isn't about what is "fair", it's about what is the law.

The law is the Law.... and the only way to change that is to help shoot down the law before it gets to be the Law (ie,. lobbying), or litigate to have it taken to the supreme court to be overturned.

There is no use in equating what other industries are doing, or even trying to address the issue of 2257 in the name of "protecting children".

If the DOJ said that they are enforcing 2257 to protect penguins, it doesn't matter what name they do their enforcement to.. they are enforcing the law.. that's what law enforcement does.

if you don't like the law, you change the law, move to another country, or abide by it.

FSC has opposed Laws many times and on many fronts. Yes, litigation is painful and slow and costly... and it would be better if congress worked with the adult biz like California congress does with FSC when it comes to adult issues, but its quite clear, that these new set of laws do more towards trying to curb/eliminate adult content, then to actually protect children.

Are you going to lobby congress against bad bills?

Are you going to litigate against bad Laws?

Who will? Who or what organization can allocated millions of dollars over time to such activities?

Larry Flynt could.. but that was in his own cases.

As a whole, only a trade association can leverage the financial resources of its membership.

Want a new organization... no problem... rally up the following:

50 companies to pay 10K per year
1000 companies to pay 5k per year
2000 companies to pay $2500 per year
5000 affiliates to pay $300 per year
20,000 surfers to pay $25 per year

this should be sufficient to hire attorneys since Lee and Douglas offer so much of their time for reduced or no compensation.

This amount of money can fund enough people to cover all areas of adult as well as legal coffers to mount several litigations and PR efforts.

Fight the telethon!

FightThisPatent · 08-02-2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by minusonebit

The adult industry desperately needs an industry trade group whose leaders are elected by the membership and who have strict term limits. This group should retain its own lobbyists and actually organize things and go after some cases.

you must not realize that every year, there is a ballot for new directors and the members of FSC cast their votes?

you must not realize that very few lobbying groups will take on FSC as a client due to it being an adult organization?

you must not realize that FSC is engaged in multiple lawsuits CURRENTLY, as well as over the years that have gone all the way to the supreme court?

You would be not alone in not knowing these things, so i am not singling you out.

Fight the ignorance!

Barefootsies · 08-02-2006, 08:34 PM

mikesouth · 08-03-2006, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

you must not realize that every year, there is a ballot for new directors and the members of FSC cast their votes?

you must not realize that very few lobbying groups will take on FSC as a client due to it being an adult organization?

you must not realize that FSC is engaged in multiple lawsuits CURRENTLY, as well as over the years that have gone all the way to the supreme court?

You would be not alone in not knowing these things, so i am not singling you out.

Fight the ignorance!

hey yer the one said it makes sense to you...well Im saying it doesnt make sense to me.

JFK · 08-03-2006, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

Thats my point...and i would expect that most everyone here agrees with you.

I was a card carrying paying member once. You know how many times they notified me of a meeting? how many meeting transcripts they sent me? how many press releases they sent me? NONE but soon as it came time for mty renewal, they didn't waste any time begging then....

I don't mind paying for a whore, but if you want my return business you best make "the juice worth the squeeze"

he he he, I agree with you on the notification part,never a news letter,or a press release until recently when my membership came up for renewal. This in spite of me asking Michelle at least 3 times during the year to have my name on the mailing list.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 08-03-2006, 03:08 AM

Some good ideas there Mike Hawk...

The adult web would greatly benefit from a summit meeting to focus on the major issues impacting our businesses (content theft, copyright violations, etc), and to develop proactive solutions to dealing with legislation such as 2257.

For example, there should be a standardized 2257 form used by all, and a database where individual members could access standardized software for maintaining their required documentation (paid for as part of their Membership dues).

A similar database could be used for content sellers, and yet another module could be used for verifying talent IDs and documentation.

If such systems were developed there would be no need for inspections of the member organizations.

I hope some of the big players at Internext give some thought to organzing a summit focused on aiding the industry as a whole instead of simply hustling for their own individual business and partying like fools.

As the saying goes, United We Stand, Divided We Fall...

ADG Webmaster

FightThisPatent · 08-03-2006, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Some good ideas there Mike Hawk...

Some great ideas from you as well....

Every show does have panels to address many of these issues, but the attendance is very low.. even the popular topic panels where the room is packed is still small subset of the overall attendance.

It would seem that an online summit would be the way to go... wheels starting to turn.

Fight the churning!

DEA - banned for life · 08-03-2006, 06:21 AM

wow great reading in this thread ...ROFL

pussyluver · 08-03-2006, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FightThisPatent

Some great ideas from you as well....

Every show does have panels to address many of these issues, but the attendance is very low.. even the popular topic panels where the room is packed is still small subset of the overall attendance.

It would seem that an online summit would be the way to go... wheels starting to turn.

Fight the churning!

The effort to start that would be minimal. A simple PHP board gets it off the ground. It could be part of FSC. Would it get the attention needed to make a difference?

At conventions it seems most are there for the party aspect. Sure biz is done at the parties etc. A trade organization requires a different approach. The need for a strong trade organization has been a round for a long time.

The problem is getting the attention and action on the part of everyday webmasters. I'm sure you know that all to well as you fought the patent.

Seems like like there is talk by a few and then it fizzles.

scoreman · 08-03-2006, 08:20 AM

I would have to agree that the FSC doesnt communicate with its member base very well, especially those members who are chipping in just a few bucks. A rep to discuss some matters on the boards would seem to be of good value to the FSC, but there are obvious issues with this. Any FSC rep on this board would immediately be asked to provide legal advice and people here would not be satisfied with the general, non specific answers that replying on a message board like this demands.

Right now the FSC is actively litigating cases that impact the adult industry in Colorado and Utah. Huge amounts of money are being spent in these cases. The FSC was involved in the .xxx and have been working on developing guidelines for the industry to impose self regulation. Self regulation would seem to be a difficult path to take due to such an emphasis on self interest among the industry, but self regulation has worked before in the past, most recently in Europe in the mobile market.

I dont think its feasible that the FSC should be held to a standard that they are a prepaid legal defense team for its members. There just isnt enough money raised through its membership base to offer this as a viable option.
Mike South, $1000 a year wont get you much hand holding by a law firm in your state but you seem to be asking for that and alot more from the FSC.

mikesouth · 08-03-2006, 10:16 AM

actually I spend less than 1K a year for my attorney (knocking on wood) and he is VERY pricey and widely considered to be the best in my area...Alan Begner

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 08-03-2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikesouth

actually I spend less than 1K a year for my attorney (knocking on wood) and he is VERY pricey and widely considered to be the best in my area...Alan Begner

That begs the point, because, your attorney is obviously not surviving off of your small payment to him, and if you should ever need him to defend you, the cost would likely skyrocket in no time.

I like your revolutionary spirit Mike, but I think it would be wiser and easier to build upon the FSC, than it would be to create a wholly separate organization (although I am not opposed to that notion either if it is porperly funded and managed well).

ADG Webmaster

Kimo · 08-03-2006, 11:56 AM

mike south is the man

Redrob · 08-03-2006, 12:10 PM

Speaking personally, I visit with webmasters every chance I get. I was at the Las Vegas Internext, the Phoenix Forum and the XBiz Forum so far this year. I saw the number of people who attended our meetings.....

The issues that concern me the most at the moment are bittorrent piracy, 2257 litigation, Utah/Michigan litigation, FSC staffing, obscenity prosecutions, and age verification. Net Neutrality is a big issue too; but, as an industry, I think we still have our heads in the sand.

Some people are always ready to take a free ride or criticize that which they cannot understand or control. I am alway ready to receive criticism and apologize when my efforts do not achieve the desired results...so I will do so now and redouble my efforts to affect positive change.

Please realize that the FSC Board of Directors all have their own businesses, families, and personal issues to deal with. Still we donate our time, gathering at our own expense, paying for our own airline tickets, hotel bills, and meals in order to try and affect positive changes for our industry. We lay out our own cold, hard cash to the tune of $1,000s of dollars a year to make it happen. Our "hidden" agenda is to protect this industry to the best of our ability and make hard decisions as a group that affect us all.

Any member of FSC is welcome to run for a position on the Board and join our efforts. We seek ideas, money, and time from everyone involved in our industry. Our needs are as bottomless as the government's coffers whom we challenge.

All I ask is that before you criticize the FSC, ask yourself, what have I done beyond the very minimum necessary of buying a membership? Have I donated to a fellow webmaster's defense fund? Am I active in my local politics getting out the vote or becoming a precint chairperson? Do I have a link on my site where my customers can register to vote? Have I sent emails to my customers expressing my outrage at how the government treats our industry? Have I written letters to my representatives in Congress? Have I spoke out against censorship at my local library, schoolboard or city council meeting? Do I know the other adult industry owner/operators in my area and do we have a local organization to help us with state and local issues?

What have you done to further Freedom and the 1st Admendment?
In truth, "freedoms" are all connected like a giant web with our govenment trying to knock out the supporting strands, one by one.....phone tapping, military tribunals, Gitmo, East European secret prisons, bank account monitoring, and who know what else...

IMHO a few do much; some do little except express rage at their own sense of impotence. I'd suggest you focus your rage on those that are causing the problems rather than those who welcome your participation and are trying to solve the problems.

The FSC's main means of communication are the Free Speaker weekly newsletter and the FSC website. With over 3000 members, contacting each member on a regular basis is difficult. We maintain the website, produce weekly newsletters and attend trade events. The desire to contact everyone on a personal basis is there, the means to do so are not.

If you have suggestions or concerns, go to the website http://www.freespeechcoalition.com and let us know what you think.

And, again, I am just speaking personally from my own experience.

Kimmykim · 08-03-2006, 12:14 PM

I'm quite puzzled about why this is such a big deal. It's not like this industry is going to magically start holding hands and singing kumbaya overnight, no matter who or what sort of organizations you start.

Too many people in too many countries with too many different acceptable standards and laws to make the internet one big happy family.

Make your money while you can, follow the law (and from whats been posted about the actual wording of the Walsh bill it's not that hard to follow going forward) and be looking for your next business, job, project, whatever pays your bills.

This is not rocket science, never has been, never will... and until porn makes as much money as tobacco or oil or pharmaceuticals, the odds of getting any sort of serious lobbying going on just aren't there. Those are industries where they all hate each other and would steal food from their competitors childrens mouths, but the dollar figure is so fucking big they have no choice but to pay the bill for getting their way.

Redrob · 08-03-2006, 12:26 PM

PS....excuse my spelling errors. I need a spell checker for Christmas.

jayeff · 08-03-2006, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I think it would be wiser and easier to build upon the FSC, than it would be to create a wholly separate organization

It isn't necessarily easier to adapt what exists. That depends on how entrenched are the existing interests and on how much momentum can be gathered to effect change. And it also seems that very few are willing to address the question of whether a single organisation can effectively represent what are in reality different industries. That we all work with porn does not put magazine publishers, video producers, content providers and website operators on the same page.

Lenny2's post gives a clue to the barriers that have to be overcome before any organisation can make real progress. He claims to have spent thousands of dollars on legal advice re 2257 and then - reasonably - asks why he should share that information with others. What he doesn't apparently question is whether it was reasonable for him to spend all that money in the first place.

There are only a handful of lawyers with special knowledge in this area, so one is forced to wonder exactly how many times they have been paid over the past 18-24 months for giving out broadly the same advice. Yet despite that and all the other time and money which has been invested in this topic, AFAIK there still isn't a resource which provides an A-Z dummy's guide to 2257 compliancy. Certainly FTP doesn't point to one and if there were one, surely he would know.

I'm not sure it applies in the US, but if you look at a set of audited accounts in the UK, they are always signed off in a near identical way. That is because after any change in the law or new case law, the Institute of Chartered Accountants sends out a template to all its members. As an industry, we should have been able to get a clear guide for the standard business models long ago, leaving people only needing to consult lawyers if their businesses do not fit one of those models or if they want to know what-if I push the envelope here or here. It is crazy that as some have said, after all this time we are still telling everyone to consult a lawyer, when in most cases that simply should not be necessary.

You cannot blame Lenny2 or anyone else who chose to seek their own counsel, rather than waiting to see if the industry would get its act together in time. But in terms of a more effective direction for FSC or whoever, it's far more important to persuade the likes of him as to the benefits of collaboration in certain areas. It may be more comfortable to complain about the small-time webmaster who contributes neither financially nor practically, but by definition his impact would be limited even if you could stir him up. The people with both the most to lose and the most to gain are the ones who need to be motivated and mobilized, because they have the most resources and (potentially) the most influence.

For the sake of what-if, what if sponsors who were members of an industry association required all their affiliates to be members of that association. That would solve the financial problems of the association without putting an undue burden on any of its members and incidentally, also pave the way for an association involved in more than just legal matters.

The problem is that you would immediately run into what I meant earlier when I wrote that this industry hadn't matured enough yet. For every sponsor who could see the advantages in that route, there would be half-a-dozen (at least) looking forward to the extra affiliates they would sign up if a handful adopted that policy. This industry includes a lot of people who have made a great deal of money, but they haven't magically become far-sighted businessmen as a result. It likely won't be until the post-2000 generation dominate the top spots that we are going to understand that collaboration can sometimes be more profitable than competition.

08-02-2006, 08:20 PM	#55
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	Actually it makes no sense whatsoever alcohol and cigarettes are far more harnmful to children so would you advocate forcing alcohol and tobacco companies be subject to the same regulations? Why should someone be jailed and fined for not being able to prove that he didnt commit a crime that never happened? So its OK for you that the FBI can enter your home or business with no warrant, no probable cause and no due process, just so that they can "protect the children"? At what point do we just get rid of the first fourth andf fifth amendments completely and roll over and allow the feds to do as they please with us so long as they protect our poor children from evil Fuck you __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

08-02-2006, 08:34 PM	#59
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	__________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?"

08-03-2006, 03:08 AM	#62
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	Some good ideas there Mike Hawk... The adult web would greatly benefit from a summit meeting to focus on the major issues impacting our businesses (content theft, copyright violations, etc), and to develop proactive solutions to dealing with legislation such as 2257. For example, there should be a standardized 2257 form used by all, and a database where individual members could access standardized software for maintaining their required documentation (paid for as part of their Membership dues). A similar database could be used for content sellers, and yet another module could be used for verifying talent IDs and documentation. If such systems were developed there would be no need for inspections of the member organizations. I hope some of the big players at Internext give some thought to organzing a summit focused on aiding the industry as a whole instead of simply hustling for their own individual business and partying like fools. As the saying goes, United We Stand, Divided We Fall... ADG Webmaster __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

08-03-2006, 08:20 AM	#66
scoreman Confirmed User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,491	I would have to agree that the FSC doesnt communicate with its member base very well, especially those members who are chipping in just a few bucks. A rep to discuss some matters on the boards would seem to be of good value to the FSC, but there are obvious issues with this. Any FSC rep on this board would immediately be asked to provide legal advice and people here would not be satisfied with the general, non specific answers that replying on a message board like this demands. Right now the FSC is actively litigating cases that impact the adult industry in Colorado and Utah. Huge amounts of money are being spent in these cases. The FSC was involved in the .xxx and have been working on developing guidelines for the industry to impose self regulation. Self regulation would seem to be a difficult path to take due to such an emphasis on self interest among the industry, but self regulation has worked before in the past, most recently in Europe in the mobile market. I dont think its feasible that the FSC should be held to a standard that they are a prepaid legal defense team for its members. There just isnt enough money raised through its membership base to offer this as a viable option. Mike South, $1000 a year wont get you much hand holding by a law firm in your state but you seem to be asking for that and alot more from the FSC. __________________

08-03-2006, 10:16 AM	#67
mikesouth Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: My High Horse Posts: 6,334	actually I spend less than 1K a year for my attorney (knocking on wood) and he is VERY pricey and widely considered to be the best in my area...Alan Begner __________________ Mike South It's No wonder I took up drugs and alcohol, it's the only way I could dumb myself down enough to cope with the morons in this biz.

08-02-2006, 07:41 PM	#51
pussyluver Clueless OleMan Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ICQ - 169903487 Posts: 11,009	Thanks for your efforts Dave Cummings! I wasn't aware of your activity.

08-02-2006, 08:26 PM	#56
minusonebit So Fucking Banned Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: [email protected] Posts: 7,391	Should we start our own? Maybe, maybe not. The adult industry desperately needs an industry trade group whose leaders are elected by the membership and who have strict term limits. This group should retain its own lobbyists and actually organize things and go after some cases. When I think of the FSC, I cannot recall any remarkable accomplishments they have made. So yes, a change is in order. On the other hand, this industry is plauged by alot of thick-headed fools who are so greedy that they dont realize they are cutting thier own throats a few years down the road. Alot of people in this industry fail to see that sometimes we need to come together and join even people we utterly detest in order to get something done for the good of all. This industry has failed to organize in the worst way. It continues to remain fragmented with everybody doing thier own thing and no real game plan for the future. But the one thing we should NOT do is support the ACLU. The ACLU has done very little in representing real free speech cases. They spend an incredible amount of time and resources making sure that women can get an abortion at taxpayer expense (I'm all for abortions, but not at public expense) and making sure illegal immigrants have all the rights I am supposed to be enjoying (which I am not for) and am entitled to. Look at the cases the ACLU is fighting now and you'll see most of them have to do with protecting the "rights" of foreigners and illegals and fighting for free abortions. I dropped my membership in the ACLU years ago when they stopped fighting the real issues.

08-03-2006, 06:21 AM	#64
DEA - banned for life V.I.P. Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: InYour Head Posts: 7,886	wow great reading in this thread ...ROFL

08-03-2006, 11:56 AM	#69
Kimo ... Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Maryland ICQ:87038677 Posts: 11,542	mike south is the man __________________ ...

08-03-2006, 12:10 PM	#70
Redrob Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In a refrigerator box by the tracks. Posts: 4,790	Speaking personally, I visit with webmasters every chance I get. I was at the Las Vegas Internext, the Phoenix Forum and the XBiz Forum so far this year. I saw the number of people who attended our meetings..... The issues that concern me the most at the moment are bittorrent piracy, 2257 litigation, Utah/Michigan litigation, FSC staffing, obscenity prosecutions, and age verification. Net Neutrality is a big issue too; but, as an industry, I think we still have our heads in the sand. Some people are always ready to take a free ride or criticize that which they cannot understand or control. I am alway ready to receive criticism and apologize when my efforts do not achieve the desired results...so I will do so now and redouble my efforts to affect positive change. Please realize that the FSC Board of Directors all have their own businesses, families, and personal issues to deal with. Still we donate our time, gathering at our own expense, paying for our own airline tickets, hotel bills, and meals in order to try and affect positive changes for our industry. We lay out our own cold, hard cash to the tune of $1,000s of dollars a year to make it happen. Our "hidden" agenda is to protect this industry to the best of our ability and make hard decisions as a group that affect us all. Any member of FSC is welcome to run for a position on the Board and join our efforts. We seek ideas, money, and time from everyone involved in our industry. Our needs are as bottomless as the government's coffers whom we challenge. All I ask is that before you criticize the FSC, ask yourself, what have I done beyond the very minimum necessary of buying a membership? Have I donated to a fellow webmaster's defense fund? Am I active in my local politics getting out the vote or becoming a precint chairperson? Do I have a link on my site where my customers can register to vote? Have I sent emails to my customers expressing my outrage at how the government treats our industry? Have I written letters to my representatives in Congress? Have I spoke out against censorship at my local library, schoolboard or city council meeting? Do I know the other adult industry owner/operators in my area and do we have a local organization to help us with state and local issues? What have you done to further Freedom and the 1st Admendment? In truth, "freedoms" are all connected like a giant web with our govenment trying to knock out the supporting strands, one by one.....phone tapping, military tribunals, Gitmo, East European secret prisons, bank account monitoring, and who know what else... IMHO a few do much; some do little except express rage at their own sense of impotence. I'd suggest you focus your rage on those that are causing the problems rather than those who welcome your participation and are trying to solve the problems. The FSC's main means of communication are the Free Speaker weekly newsletter and the FSC website. With over 3000 members, contacting each member on a regular basis is difficult. We maintain the website, produce weekly newsletters and attend trade events. The desire to contact everyone on a personal basis is there, the means to do so are not. If you have suggestions or concerns, go to the website http://www.freespeechcoalition.com and let us know what you think. And, again, I am just speaking personally from my own experience.

08-03-2006, 12:14 PM	#71
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	I'm quite puzzled about why this is such a big deal. It's not like this industry is going to magically start holding hands and singing kumbaya overnight, no matter who or what sort of organizations you start. Too many people in too many countries with too many different acceptable standards and laws to make the internet one big happy family. Make your money while you can, follow the law (and from whats been posted about the actual wording of the Walsh bill it's not that hard to follow going forward) and be looking for your next business, job, project, whatever pays your bills. This is not rocket science, never has been, never will... and until porn makes as much money as tobacco or oil or pharmaceuticals, the odds of getting any sort of serious lobbying going on just aren't there. Those are industries where they all hate each other and would steal food from their competitors childrens mouths, but the dollar figure is so fucking big they have no choice but to pay the bill for getting their way.

08-03-2006, 12:26 PM	#72
Redrob Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In a refrigerator box by the tracks. Posts: 4,790	PS....excuse my spelling errors. I need a spell checker for Christmas.