pornask

Disclaimer - I'm not American myself, so what do I know... however:

from the post here I gather that insurance companies are greedy bastards making massive wealth on people's sufferring, ripping everybody off and getting away with it. Question is - why don't you people who complain start your own insurance company? Everything will turn around for you. You will be the ones feeding your pockets, you will be the invincible ones. From what you are talking about it really does look like medical insurance is the best business to be in. Or did I missunderstand something?

ADL Colin

That bear get a boo boo?

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drjones

Something doesnt sound right there.. this is just coming from my personal experience.

Isnt it illegal for an Emergency Room to turn anyone away on the grounds that they cant pay? I have been riding freestyle BMX since I was a kid and have been to more emergency rooms and hospitals than I can count. Lost count of the bones I have broken, and the amount of stitches I have ever gotten.

In plain sight in every emergency room I have been in is a sign saying, they will treat EVERYONE who comes in the door, regardless of race, religion etc etc, and regardless of ability to pay. They generally dont turn people away..

Not saying our system doesnt need some major fixing, but in emergencies you can always get treated. Seems crazy that a kid died like this. Need to watch the movie, I guess.

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Peaches

So let me get this straight - Americans would like for the US Federal Government, who has thus far screwed up, overspent and under performed almost every single service they've touched, control your health instead of fixing some administrative problems in a few hospitals?

darling2

I think living in a nice house with a big car, vacations abroad and a few color TVs, eating out at nice restaurants etc. is a nice incentive for people to work. That is how capitalism really works!

If people are too sick to work or don't have the education to be productive then the community is not benefiting.

ADL Colin

No thanks.

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Axeman

Watch the movie then decide where the problems that need fixing lie. Until then your kinda going blind and not quite accurate.

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tony286

Actually Fox news gave it a great review said it was very fair. Everyone knows health ins companies fuck you there is no need for spin. lol

Peaches

True, I have no idea if he's advocating socialized medicine. I know a lot of people in the US are though

Colin, I'm with you - let me pay for my own medical insurance and care, let me see my own doctor when I want, and yes, the bear DID have a boo boo in his front paw but I think he's OK now

BTW, I have also dealt with having to pay for medical care outside of insurance. In 2000 I had over $25K in medical bills due to a bleeding ulcer. I'd still rather do that than depend on the US government for my medical care.

tony286

Originally Posted by Peaches
So let me get this straight - Americans would like for the US Federal Government, who has thus far screwed up, overspent and under performed almost every single service they've touched, control your health instead of fixing some administrative problems in a few hospitals?

This myth that the govt fucks everything up, talk to old people ask them does their ss check come on time? You will hear yes.Ask about Welfare checks you will hear yes.Medicare and Medicaid are rated higher in customer satisfaction than private insurance.We are 24th in the world for life expectancy. Its not a few problems, my father is dealing with this now in treating his cancer. They suck if it wasnt for my mothers connections.He would truly be in a world of shit.

ADL Colin

So you have to watch a Michael Moore movie to "understand where the problems are"? Oh, come on. Rush limbaugh has a opinion on healthcare too, i am sure. I don't need to know what his observations are anymore than i need to know what Michael Moore's are. maybe I just need to sit down and watch Mr. O'Reilly or Alan Colmes. Bright enough people I am sure. Are THEIR observations on healthcare any more or less pertinent than Moore's?

This comes down simply to what kind of world one wants to live in. You want to live in a world where you take some of my "hard-earned money" and give it to someone "less fortunate" to help pay their bills. OK, I respect that. That is fine that is the way you want the world. I prefer to live in a world where people pay their own bills and the government is as small as possible. I can live with a few small safety nets but "universal healthcare" is too much for me to swallow.

Which way works better? Well, they both work. Depends on who you ask. You get DIFFERENT results.

Ah, the nature of politics.

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ADL Colin

I don't participate in the health care system. i don't want anything to do with health insurance. I pay my medical bills as I go. The local hospital always offers me 50% off my bill for paying it in its entirety within 30 days. My doctor gives me reduced rates for not having health insurance. i get my health care the old fashioned way. I pay for it.

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Peaches

Didn't you come here a year or so ago talking about how happy you were you had insurance when Mandy had some serious medical problems?

We can ALL choose to be self insured if you don't like insurance companies. Just put what you'd pay for insurance into an interest bearing account and hope you don't go over what you have in there. I bet, instead, you're happy paying in premiums less than insurance will pay out.

Personally I think catastrophic insurance should be required like homeowner's and auto insurance is.

tony286

I hope nothing serious ever happens to you or you will be in a world of shit my friend.

Axeman

The main thing to think about is the US is the only country in Western civilization that does not offer a national health care service. Its citizens also live 2-3 years less than those of France, Canada and Britain and the mortality rate of its infants is behind 36 other countries.

That speaks volumes to me about the quality of care provided in the US.

The movies main points are those who are insured are not quite insured. When the claims become to much dollar wise the insurance company will do "ANYTHING" it possibly can to deny your claim and not pay out. Thus there are millions or people who thought they were covered and paid their monthly fees only to be screwed royally by their HMO and forced into bankruptcy to pay for their health or worse deteriorate into death. The movie has an example about a man that had kidney cancer and needed a bone marrow transplant from his brother to survive. The HMO denied the claim because they deemed it experimental. The wife worked at the hospital as a nurse and the HMO had their main office at the hospital and still was screwed over. The husband died because of the HMO's denial.

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Axeman

Oh man you are truly an idiot. I really hope you never have a serious issue or you will be broke and probably end up offing yourself due to the stress and hardship of having your world come crashing down.

Then again it seems you still may have the same issue with some HMO's anyway, so I guess so be it.

Good luck and stay indoors a lot.

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Tom_PM

My hospital offers zero discount for paying in full. I asked if I paid my entire bill in full, would I get a discount? Answer was No.. Peaches suggested it and I asked about it. The woman DID mention to me that she doesnt know how so many people she helps only make $800 a month (the HINT HINT WINK WINK was clear as a bell). I'm not interested in such "financial aid" as that. I would have plunked down 50% of my bill GLADLY in cash if they had offered it though!

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tony286

So what does that have to do with the system sucking?
My father had a heart attack in the UK many years ago, got excellent care and it didnt cost him a dime. Based on what I saw when my Dad was just in the hospital from the attitudes of 30 dollar an hour nurses to food I wouldnt feed a stray dog things have to change and this was crawford long not some dump.

Tom_PM

My "physical therapy" consisted of a woman walking into my room, putting socks on me, and having me walk 10 feet down a hallway. It took about 2 minutes, and I was billed $125 for it.

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ADL Colin

you must be talking about someone else.

My daughter was in the hospital for almost a month last year. I wrote a check.Thanks for your concern.

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Axeman

The reality is the government spends so much on health care with your tax payer dollars as it is, and if they switched to a national system the extra cost would be a bit more the first decade and then level off to todays levels as the preventative care started to take effect. And then you got everyone covered and not afraid to goto a doctor early in the stages of illness and people would live longer and be happier. There has been impact studies done that show that in fact the US government would spend LESS money per year on health care if they went to the national system.

I personally think the British system is best. Good national service as well as the ability to seek private care if you have the means to do so. I also love the flat rate for prescriptions.

Canada is great if you need immediate help but if you need elective surgery it can take awhile to get it done. If you had the means it would be nice to seek private care and have it done when you want it done.

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Axeman

Well I am glad you have the means to be able to handle a $500k hospital bill without blinking.

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ADL Colin

The closest hospital to my house offers it as a normal service to everyone. Pretty sweet :-)

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tony286

Most of them have a fuck you attitude.Went to a really good eye doctor,I hadnt been to one in a long time and I make my living with my eyes so I went. Now since my dad worked for a major health ins company at the time I knew what they paid him for an exam $35, he was charging me $150. I asked about a discount for cash,I was told the price is the price.

Tom_PM

Mannnnnnnnnnnn no fair depressing someone! I call no fair on you!

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Peaches

Again, I want to keep big government OUT of my medical choices. I want to get the insurance *I* want and go to the doctors *I* want. If I can not pay for socialized medicine with my taxes and keep my personal plan/doctors, then go for it

ADL Colin

Now you're talking. We should cut back on the robbery! less gov't healthcare. Lower taxes! I'm ready to go on the campaign trail.

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ADL Colin

I was surprised myself. I just moved here. Just happened to be the hospital I went to when my daughter spiked a 103 (yes, she did). They also offered me 1/2 off for upfront payment for an operation she needs to put a tube in her ears.

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Tom_PM

The small bits of info. on a "national" system I've heard about so far all say if a person wants to buy private insurance, they can go right ahead. Nobody has said that if they do so, they avoid the inevitable "tax" though.

I guess like if you own a home you are paying school taxes, but you can still choose a private school.

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Brad

I say the bottom line is that it is irrefutable that at some point or another we are all going to need to use the health care system. When we do, we can only hope that it takes care of us and does not run us into the ground financially.

Over the years I have heard and read many a story about people getting screwed by their insurance companies. When this happens, it not only ruins that person, but also their family and friends who rally to help support that person. Sure they could sue the company, but everyone know where that would lead...further financial disaster.

I am sure that there are also many good stories about insurance companies helping out people as well, but they go unnoticed because that is not the kind of news that we like to read and talk about. Who wants to sit around and talk about how Johnny got hooked up by his insurance company?

So where does that leave us with respect to the debate between a private system and a public one?

As far as I have seen and heard, the only real plus to a privatized system is that you can have faster service in a nicer place. Great. On the flip side, you could be saddled with an endless list of medical bills.

On to a public system...sure there could be longer wait times and yes the room you are in may not be lined with gold, but at least you are going to get the treatment you need without having to worry about getting a heart attack when you see how much everything cost.

When you look at both sides of this debate and the fact that it is in essence a black and white issue it seems to me that it comes down to a show down of who is most patriotic rather than a debate over what system of health care is better. It is no different than the debate over guns in the US from my perspective. Some feel the undying need to rally around the flag and others see that there is room to make positive changes.

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Axeman

BTW In Canada and Britain you can still pick the doctors you see. I pick my family doctor. When I tore my knee and needed ACL surgery I picked my surgeon. I asked for the Canadian national ski team surgeon and was given him. I also asked for a cadaver instead of my own hamstring to replace the ligament and they flew it in from Florida for me. Total cost of the exploritory surgery to confirm it was torn, surgery, cadaver, 3 nights in hospital, 4 months therapy, and 3 follow up visits with the surgeon was $125 for the device I wrapped my knee in that pumped ice water through to control the swelling and the pain killers.

Its a myth that socialized medicine you don't get to pick your doctors. Now whether the US would follow suit who the hell knows.

All I know is when I lived in FL, I had insurance but I got nickeled and dimed all the time with deductibles and copays etc. I had nothing major happen to me thankfully during that time so never had to ask the HMO to pay for something major.

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Axeman

Then you turn into a 3rd world country.

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darling2

I fail to see why it has to be one or the other, why there must be only private or only public hospitals. The major issue is that there should be plenty of public hospitals with great care and high paid professional staff.

If someone wants a king size hospital bed or a golden door knob then they could go to a private hospital and foot the bill themselves.

The public hospitals must offer as good professional care as the private ones but the private hospitals should only differentiate themselves on luxury, not quality of treatment.

Peaches

In my town when you reach retirement age you longer pay school taxes, with the realization that you're not going to be using them.

Though in essence, paying for a good school system means your house is going to be worth more if/when you sell it. I'm not sure the same can be said about paying into a national healthcare system

tony286

Fast service from the private system is a myth. My Dad was told he had a fast growing cancer and the specialist wouldn't be available for at least 2 weeks.My Mom who works for a big shot Doctor called him and he made calls and then he was seen the next business day. Now if a person doesnt work in health care with connections they would be fucked. They have health care with one of the largest Health ins companies in America. My wife and I have KP she had to see a endocrinologist this was Feb she was told first appointment was August.So until then she had to see a nurse practitioner, if increases keep going the way they are, we will be paying $1000 a month for this shitty service.

ADL Colin

We're just fat.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...health-obesity

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Brad

Actually there are strides in medicine because universities recruit great thinkers to do research and teach there. It may interest you to know that one of the best med schools in the US designed it's program based on the McMaster (yes, here in Canada) medical schools approach. Oh, and the really great thinkers and innovators have traditionally not been interested in making $$$ off what they have created, they take pride in knowing that they are an innovator. Most of the people that are making money off ideas have stolen them from someone else, look at Bill Gates, etc.

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ADL Colin

So you think if the US cuts taxes and government healthcare expenses our industries, capital markets, incomes and financial institutions will collapse?

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ADL Colin

Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson, Merck, Bayer, etc etc.

But then Sanofi-Aventis is French.

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VForV

America sucks balls.

Axeman

I think if you cut government health care so that the emergancy rooms have to turn people away because they wont be getting any money back from the government you will end up with a society where major diseases become rampant. Then you end up with big business without the healthy labor it needs to operate and succeed with and it becomes a domino effect over time. For society to function and grow you need healthy citizens.

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Tom_PM

I just called the financial aid woman who told me "no discount" last week and pressed her on the issue. I told her several people in my line of work who are self pay say they get quite a discount if they pay in one lump payment. This time she told me she wasn't authorized to offer me anything, but to call billing department and ask about a courteousy discount and maybe they will do something. Damnit! Why couldnt she tell me that last time?????

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Axeman

I strongly disagree with that. America has a ton of fantastic things.

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tony286

Profit doesn't motivate them to do better it motivates to cut corners and fuck people. I read a book called sick and it showed health insurance companies got fucked up once they went public. Then the shareholder became more important then the policy holder.

Brad

Is this an argument against what I said?

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ADL Colin

When was the last time you went to the emergency room for a polio vaccination? And by the way, I didn't say "no" government healthcare. I very carefully said "less". Any government programs for innoculations would be high on my list of keepers.

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SmokeyTheBear

i dont disagree. i often have this argument with people when talking about the "evil" drug companies.. and why they make such huge profits from cheap drugs.. if we left it up to ourselves to fund research into drugs they would never get invented ..

but thats beside the point.. as a doctor you take an oath to treat everyone equally . period , there are no waivers.

there will always be incentives for doctors regardless of who they are paid by, we just have to realise this.. you gotta pay doctors a reasonable rate. this is the incentive.

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ADL Colin

Pointing out the other side of medical research. Big profit seeking corporations. glorious

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ADL Colin

It was the billing department I dealt with at my hospital too. I didn't know they had "financial aid". In my case they called me though.

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Tom_PM

Well, this woman called me about the aid thing. Gee if only I made less than $25k per year I'd have been all set! LOL. I did ask her directly last week though about a discount if I paid in full and she didnt say "talk to billing", she flat out told me No.

I just hate being in debt for anything, so I want this over with.

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