Joint Statement from IBill, CCBill and Epoch / Paycom - Page 6 - GoFuckYourself.com

NETbilling · 10-03-2002, 10:13 PM

mrbling,

Well said.... but you stuill need to pay the registration fees. Well worth it to have your own account though.

Mitch

slickchic · 10-03-2002, 10:59 PM

I hear everyone say well I have my $750.
So what if MC discover and all those other credit card companies follow suit? do you have enough money then?
we process my own credit cards. we have not heard anything about this from our merchant sevices.
I am assuming this is to do with third party billers.
I must say I blame the comsumers of our paysites, and the banks that issue these credit cards. The banks are to free in allowing these assholes to charge back even though they use our services.
You can have all the right documentation for each transaction and they still get their money back. OR do they????
Or is ibill and the others trying to fuck us all.
I have searched visa.com for their new regs but have not found any as of yet. Or do we take the word of Ibill and the rest on this one.
If you have the time, (which most of us don't) you can set -up your own merchant account and charge cards by phone for as little as $500.00
anyway
I will let you know if I find out anything tomorrow.
I will make a few phone calls to see what is going on with visa.

chaze · 10-03-2002, 11:28 PM

It seems everyone is ready to sell out the next guy in a heart beat. The reason why this happened is because they know we won't work together to contest this, The same principle happens in life the rich get richer and poorer get poorer.

Just because you can afford it and it will bring more business to larger companies does not make it a good thing.

I seen a post earlier saying the site should be registered and maybe pay $200 that sounds better and safer. but to suck $700 bucks out of good companies because of shitty charge backs. Well @#$% that.

The bottom line is it's the banks fault for letting customers get their money back and not being able to stop fraud themselves. So hey lets put the wait on the merchant well @#$% that too.

Peace,

Charles

hypherion · 10-04-2002, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krome

All that will happen then is ccbill will lose massive amounts of clients. ..as we start switching over to the dutch processors.

Do you know any dutch proccessors?

erotictrance · 10-04-2002, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
The most important point of all. WHY this is happening. Well it's pretty fucking simple. You take a bunch of cheats and thieves, let them get access to peoples credit cards and then watch what they do. XPICS among others comes to mind for me, though I'll keep the other names quiet since alot of them still do business today.

It's not just Visa that is sick and tired of the fraud and the cheating, it's the banks themselves. 95% of banks DO NOT accept high risk transactions but due to the fact that they are grouped with other banks that do, they become potentially liable for losses incurred by the banks that do take high risk.

Kimmy Kim is right. And, in my opinion, this is probably long overdue. Overall, in the long run, it's probably going to be good for the biz.

And, for everybody else who's bitching about it ... well ... maybe it's time for you to get out.

sexpress · 10-04-2002, 04:56 AM

How many Dutch processors are there? I know only one: multicards.com

jeroman · 10-04-2002, 06:06 AM

Why wasn't we given this information much sooner ?

Or did VISA just tell you guys (ccbill,epoch,ibill) ??

Or did you just figure out how to handle this, 1 week before
the paperwork starts ?

I'm not from US, how funny is that at a time like this ?
Now I need to get a social sec ID, Tax ID, Bussines name
in US and like that is not hard enougf I need to do it within
a week LOL

Anyone have the stats on how much visa process against Mastercard and other cards ???

Jeroman

Petr · 10-04-2002, 06:08 AM

60-70%

Saruman · 10-04-2002, 06:14 AM

I am really shocked!

AM Jeff · 10-04-2002, 06:46 AM

Kimmy Kim,

Yep...I agree.

What people don't realize is this....

They get that 1 chargeback out of 100 and they are at their 1%.

More in likely, they'll have 3 to 5 chargebacks out of 100 and that'll put their system on being monitored, possible a reserve account.
If they're over that 5% chargeback ratio for a 3 month peroid.
VISA can have their account terminated.

Poeple, I have had merchant accounts.
Its not all cream and cookies.

You have to play the game much..much more carefully when you have your own. Play the game right and be carefu. Stick with the very best in customer service and when you get a chargeback inquiry, don't fuck around and try to dispute. You'll lose without that SIGNED authorization from the consumer.

You let down just a hair, you'll find you been blacklisted and COULD fuck up your credit. It has happened to some people. I was lucky enough to have enough in reserve to cover my ass.

Why do you think the BIG boys use 3rd party processing?
Because of the headaches that come along with t Merchant account.
Merchant account is up to you. Things I enjoyed about it. If I had a BIG weekend. My Money was in my bank account daily.

Bad things are chargebacks.

I've been in this business now 6, almost 7 years.
I had both, merchant and 3rd party.

IMHO, sticky with the 3rd party. They cover your ass. The $750 fee...fuck it. All part of life. Ever changing business shit that happens on a every day thing. It's always something.

You wanna play the merchant account game.
Its your ass, your choice...not mine.

Some of you will be glad you had a merchant account. Some of you will wish you never left 3rd party.
Be fucking careful.

FATPad · 10-04-2002, 07:25 AM

The big boys must be doing something wrong. All the people I talk to who run decent paysites (some of them pretty big ones) don't have problems with chargebacks.

Maybe it's because they have what the tour promises, don't charge $40.00 for a pile of shit, and don't try to mislead people with 3 day trials that renew automatically in 48 hours and other crap like that.

The only people in danger of getting kicked for chargebacks are people who run crappy paysites and rely on people forgetting to cancel or who bury crap in their TOS.

Jizar II · 10-04-2002, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FATPad
Maybe it's because they have what the tour promises, don't charge $40.00 for a pile of shit, and don't try to mislead people with 3 day trials that renew automatically in 48 hours and other crap like that.

The only people in danger of getting kicked for chargebacks are people who run crappy paysites and rely on people forgetting to cancel or who bury crap in their TOS.

I agree 100%

AM Jeff · 10-04-2002, 07:52 AM

Nah...Surfers rarly read the TOS.
They just wanna get it off.

Yes, there are some who run shitty shits.
Lots of them and promise the moon and have no where near what they promise.

BUT...most chargebacks come from people who don't give a shit about what you have inside.
Chargebacks come from people who know they can get away with it, or college students who spend so much on porn. They don't have anything left on their card,or wives who find out their husbands been jerking off to the computer and claim they never signed up for shit.

Reason I know this?
I have 2 filing cabinets full of chargeback reciepts and had numberous phone calls from wives wanting to know whats on their card.
Honestly...you'd be fucking blown away if you read some of the shit and excuses that come in on chargebacks.
Funny thing is..people claim their card number must have been hijacked off the web..but the bank NEVER cancels the card and re-issues a new one.
The real problem is. Banks let consumers do whatever they want.
Making the merchants the fall guy.

The small problem is us.
There are some sites out there that create chargebacks.
The REAL problems are the consumers.

I can go to Amazon.com right now and order $300 in books..get charged and next month...chargeback without breaking a sweat and still get all them books for free.

Reason...No signed reciept.
No proof I authorized any sale.

You also gotta remember this.

I bet , not just the porn sites are going thru this.
I bet...lots of mainstream sites are going thru the same thing.

The internet game as whole is high risk.

Why..NO SIGNED RECIEPT.
CONSUMERS CAN CHARGEBACK EASILY.
Untill the banks get a grip on the consumers.
We will always have issues regaurding this matter.
ALWAYS.

clickpimp · 10-04-2002, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SextrafficPete
shaw,

look at oxcash

started out with nothing, now push 1000 - 1500 signups a day

so you tell me, how a business can start up if they have to waste $5,000 on billing

like any other business handles start-up, zoning and licensing fees i imagine. if i want to open a bar, I need a $25,000 license before i have the privilege of billing a client.

angel investors, partners, friends, credit, friend's credit =)

vik · 10-04-2002, 09:19 AM

Well, since my e-mail from CCBILL yesterday, and after 2 days of reading this entire thread, I can see that we all have to do some hard thinking on what the best course of action is. I've been doing this adult website stuff since 1996, and have had my own ups and downs, including $8,000/mo profit my first couple of years, down to almost nothing now.

My first 3rd party processor, WWIA in Crestview, FL, due to an unscrupulous (sp?) sys admin, had his merchant account frozen in Dec, 1999, my $3,000 check bounced, he ended up over $100,000 in debt to Visa/MC, and owed me over $7,000. Because I had the lowest charge-back ratio, he kept me on with his new merchant account until he decided this shit wasn't worth it anymore, and 1 year later he paid me my arrears (money I thought was lost forever). I checked in on getting my own merchant account but decided "pledging my house and ALL my assets" wasn't worth it. Too many surfers abusing the system and charging back for legitimate signups (covered many times in this thread).

When I was shopping for a new 3rd party processor at Internext (then IA2000), CCBILL (Ron & Craig) woowed me by telling me they use multiple servers and multiple locations, to move bad accounts from one to the other to "mathematically" keep the ratios down. Don't know for sure if it's true or not, but it sounded good.

Like everyone else, I have to make the same decisions, and as crappy as the net has gotten for signups and retentions, I can't let $750.00 keep me from receiving the $1,500/month I'm struggling to maintain. However, I did e-mail CCBILL this morning and ask if I can charge a higher rate for the VISA charges than I do for the others, as VISA cards all start with the number "4", so it should be an easy programming change, but CCBILL replied back they "couldn't" do it. I prefer to believe they don't want to do it.

Finally, this morning, I raised the prices on my pay sites 50%. Guess the only way to beat this is pass it on to the consumer, and maybe their power of a large number of complaints to VISA will get the assholes to re-consider what they are doing.

Regards, and thanks for taking the time to read such a long reply.

vik

unoino · 10-04-2002, 12:33 PM

I think there is more going on than just Visa putting this charges out there, and that the billing companies sent the message out together. just makes you wonder. And this is probably just rumor but heard on another board that if you try to switch billing companies the billing companies want to fine you for doing so. Whats up with that, sounds like a DMR ploy, but hey who knows. Does anyone know what is happening with the international processors? such as Verotel or Dutchbill, iPay. And why did the notice come from "the billing people" and not from Visa themselves? and why only a two week notice? seems like a lot of unanswered questions.

westman · 10-05-2002, 12:27 PM

PayPal, what is happening with them?

There is nothing on their site concerning this Visa thing?!

mistressofnite · 10-05-2002, 12:34 PM

"Funny thing is..people claim their card number must have been hijacked off the web..but the bank NEVER cancels the card and re-issues a new one.
"

That is a good point. Which brings me to another one, if these no-signature purchases are the reason that customers can get away with chargebacks in the first place, what happened to the idea of using a pin number, or even that three-digit number on the back of the card that some merchants require in addition to the credit card number as proof that you in fact are the holder? Methinks VISA doesn't give that much of an f, they'd rather just take the dough. Bastids.

kmanrox · 10-05-2002, 12:36 PM

fuck that i quit!

j/k this will keep a good portion of the newbs away, and ive never habe more than 3% chargeback/credit total at the very max...

Voodoo · 10-05-2002, 12:39 PM

Well, someone earlier brought up a good point. This brings to mind another question:

What is to stop Visa from just handing out FREE money to the customers whenever they feel like it, and charging the webmasters back for it???

If they don't make every effort to stop customer fraud... and put all the heat on the webmasters, what kind of business is that?

That just isn't right.

I feel that the customer should be responsible for something.

Adultbouncer Rob · 10-05-2002, 01:03 PM

many big companies probably dont hae their own merchant because they do alot of devious and bad things

its not their merchant so they dont care..

I have my own merchant and its below 1% in CB/RF.

But who knows.

I guess the adult industry will thin out.

StacyCat · 10-05-2002, 05:38 PM

I work for a credit card company, in collections. Actually, ive seen charges that were claimed as false be overturned because the physical address the items was shipped to was the same.

interesting theory for chargebacks, to make it foolproof. :-) Buy this CD, get 1 month on access. Buy this video, and get 6 months of access. Access starts immediatly, and item gets shipped to address on credit card file.

AM Jeff · 10-05-2002, 05:50 PM

Voodoo..thats the problem.

The Banks and VISA allow consumers to chargeback just because they have an itch and often as they like.

What they NEED to be doing is looking at the consumer...and us.
But most chargebacks are due to consumers KNOW they can.

Rochard · 10-05-2002, 06:24 PM

I've said some of this in another Visa thread, so excuse me if I'm reapeating myself.....

Recently someone on GFY posted a link to a password page. This gave me access to a lot of different member's areas. One of the websites - a cheerleading website - had a member's area full of feeds. No pictures, no real content - only feeds. I could imagine what their chargeback rate is like.

I'm working my ass off making sure all of our tours are honest, and that are members areas are udpated on a regular basis with never seen before content we've shot ourselves. The end result is nearly no chargebacks or refunds at all.

Anyone can get into the adult business. You don't need to really file any paperwork, and you don't need wads of cash like a real business. The end result is a lot of assholes get into the business.

Visa is doing what the online adult business coudln't do itself - Cleaning house.

Jer · 10-05-2002, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by media
What ever happened to grandfathering laws..

Media

Media, are you the "booooobaaaaahhh" MEDIA ?

If yes, nice to see you again after months/years/whatever.

BOOOOOOBAHHHHHHHH!

Jer

harvey · 10-05-2002, 07:55 PM

Does it means I'll be finally able to use my Diners Club credit card?

On the other hand, if Visa requires just 500, why processors want 750? There's no possible way they'll spend 250 in administration spents due to this, so I guess it's more like "OK, here's a good excuse to get some money for nothing". I don't know how or when, but this will clearly affect 3rd part processors very bad, just a feeling. And the main reason will be that people trusting in them as service providers is seeing they don't care very much about customer (webmasters) retention. It's like Marketing 1, instead of looking for a way to go thru this with the minimum pain for their customers, they decide to charge even more

Hope they get back to Earth soon

harvey · 10-05-2002, 07:58 PM

And yes, I've the $750, but I simply don't want to give it for free, nobody gives me money for nothing, I don't want to do it either, sorry to ego-trip based posters

harvey · 10-05-2002, 08:01 PM

And finally: I know a very good way for non-hassle, non-chargebacks payment, a system that doesn't exist, but since I don't have the (big) money to implement it, I guess you'll need to wait for something else

Pleasurepays · 10-05-2002, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by harvey
And finally: I know a very good way for non-hassle, non-chargebacks payment, a system that doesn't exist, but since I don't have the (big) money to implement it, I guess you'll need to wait for something else

dont be bashful... tell us how you also
solved world hunger,
global warming and
cured cancer while finding
a solution for permanent peace in the Middle East.
.,... or you just dont feel like talking about those
things too??

harvey · 10-05-2002, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Pleasurepays

dont be bashful... tell us how you also
solved world hunger,
global warming and
cured cancer while finding
a solution for permanent peace in the Middle East.
.,... or you just dont feel like talking about those
things too??

err... no, did I mention something about that? I said I have a very good idea I cannot implement because it needs big money, it's not a delerium, it's not fantasy, it's just a very good idea I had like 3 years ago and polish along these years hoping to sometimes have the money to implement it.

And no, I won't share it, why the hell would I do that? There are too many clowns in here, but when it comes to business, I've no time for clowns, be more open minded and you'll discover a new world of possibilities

gothweb · 10-06-2002, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BradShaw
Overall this looks like good news. I hope it helps to limit the people who should not be running paysites in the first place by charging this fee. If you can not afford the $750, you should go find another line of work.

I just thought of something. Why is it good for you to see the small guys pushed aside? If you're afraid to compete with startups, mom & pop businesses, and amateurs, maybe you should be in another line of work, Brad.

Pleasurepays · 10-06-2002, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by harvey

err... no, did I mention something about that? I said I have a very good idea I cannot implement because it needs big money, it's not a delerium, it's not fantasy, it's just a very good idea I had like 3 years ago and polish along these years hoping to sometimes have the money to implement it.

And no, I won't share it, why the hell would I do that? There are too many clowns in here, but when it comes to business, I've no time for clowns, be more open minded and you'll discover a new world of possibilities

you are confusing "open minded" with delusions
there is difference
one requires objective thinking
the second requires medication and therapy.

if you ran out of medication, lets deal with that first... then we can jump right in to solving the rest of the worlds ills on GFY.

Max Harmer · 10-06-2002, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by UnseenWorld
You might want to contact GloBill. They have been making some changes lately, and it might be to avoid some of this shit.

And maybe it's time for the industry to start its own credit card operation.

Who's ready for this? What other alternatives are available to us? There's gotta be something easier than starting a whole new credit organization.

Why not something like, a refferal site. Register one company to do the transactions, and everyone has access to it, at a small premium.

Would people be interested if a service like this was started?

markusborger · 10-06-2002, 12:33 PM

Respectfull and Beloved Webmasters,

We at AnimalDollars have always overcome all this sort of VISA problems and allways will.

We want to assure our advertisers that we already (today) have a solution for this one too.

Promoting AnimalDollars sites will continue to give you more cash then anything else.

:

Best Regards

Mark

AnimalDollars Administration

drewdazz · 10-06-2002, 07:49 PM

SOLUTION-VISA SIN TAX

My billing company is in the Netherlands (off-shore).
Click here for more info:
http://www.nylons.org/drew/clickhere.html

Drew, webmistress
The Nylon Network

Pleasurepays · 10-06-2002, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by markusborger
Respectfull and Beloved Webmasters,

We at AnimalDollars have always overcome all this sort of VISA problems and allways will.

We want to assure our advertisers that we already (today) have a solution for this one too.
Promoting AnimalDollars sites will continue to give you more cash then anything else. :
Best Regards
ark
AnimalDollars Administration

yeah... good idea. i am sure that promoting women fucking great danes and horses which is illegal in 1/2 the world, will really help put the fire out.

greedy fucking retards like you are 80% of the problem.

slickchic · 10-10-2002, 11:01 AM

We have searched high and low and found the following company that does not make you pay the fee like all other thrid party billing companies are doing

http://www.globill-systems.com/cgi-b...i?parent=3998s

btw found info on ibill,ccbill and other they new about these new regs 5 months ago they could have told us then so we all could have saved the $750.00.

Lack of foresight on their part will lose them mega bucks

Jizar II · 10-10-2002, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slickchic
We have searched high and low and found the following company that does not make you pay the fee like all other thrid party billing companies are doing

http://www.globill-systems.com/cgi-b...i?parent=3998s

btw found info on ibill,ccbill and other they new about these new regs 5 months ago they could have told us then so we all could have saved the $750.00.

Lack of foresight on their part will lose them mega bucks

MORON

CoolE · 10-10-2002, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by slickchic
We have searched high and low and found the following company that does not make you pay the fee like all other thrid party billing companies are doing

http://www.globill-systems.com/cgi-b...i?parent=3998s

btw found info on ibill,ccbill and other they new about these new regs 5 months ago they could have told us then so we all could have saved the $750.00.

Lack of foresight on their part will lose them mega bucks

I gotta say that the situation with all these people who are roasting CCBill, IBill, and Epoch alive at the stake is quite unimpressive and unproductive. Being Canadian and having a ton of rebills and affiliates, my highly profitable little business is screwed here more than just about anyone. The Nevada LLC option is on hold because the legal and tax implications are staggering and besides it looks like Visa is requiring on the reports that the "Principle Owners" of the company to be American citizens - but no one knows for sure.

But hell, it's not my processor's (CCBill) fault, so why the hell would I shit on them? They are in the dark as much as I am. When they know something, they pass it on.

Who are you whiners going to flame if Globill has to meet the same requirements in 9 months? It's a rhetorical question; you will bitch at Globill then.

Voodoo · 10-10-2002, 11:56 AM

Will this thread ever go away?

davek · 10-15-2002, 02:35 PM

Hmmmm.... I manage 2 separate ccbill accounts - my own and one in a partnership - plus an ibill account. I have received no notification, bills, requests for info, forms, or indeed any communication at all from them about this. And no disrespect, but a posting in GFY hardly qualifies as reasonable notice to clients, does it?

I suspect the whole thing is so much smoke (like the one about ICQ charging a fee a few years ago). Probably designed by big operators to scare the little guys out of business, leaving more money for themselves.

However, if it is true, then I suspect Visa will lose more money than they make off this policy decision. I for one can promise that they will also lose my mainstream business account as well as the adult stuff, and I am sure that others will do the same.

Reaper · 10-15-2002, 05:43 PM

Why doesnt Ibill and all the other proccessors pay the 750 to visa and wham thats all. Sorry if I dont understand this correctly but visa isnt charging individuals its charging 750 to the processor isnt it???

Web girl · 10-19-2002, 05:00 AM

CCBill you suck! How dare you refund someone with 1 week left on a 3 month membership. This is NOT the first time you have pulled shit like this ... just one more stunt pulled by the dip shits at CCBill. You are so afraid of a chargeback that you would rather let him con your clients? Free porn for him for life... Whoo Hoo, I bet he just LOVES you guys!! I see how valuable this $750 and $350 will be. We pay you, you make money and then you fuck us up the ass. Excuse me while I unzip my pants and bend over for your easier access.

Massage Parlor · 09-06-2007, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SextrafficPete

i am still waiting to hear how this affects offshore third party billers ;)

and where is the press release by visa that this is a new international regulation

Yeah, no problem for the offshore 3rd party billers, especially those from the Cayman islands :D

gleem · 09-06-2007, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massage Parlor

Yeah, no problem for the offshore 3rd party billers, especially those from the Cayman islands :D

LOL you bumped a 6 year old thread.

CONGRATS!

NetCashBrian · 09-06-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gleem

LOL you bumped a 6 year old thread.

CONGRATS!

Maybe, but this was a great read.

Jace · 09-06-2007, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massage Parlor

Yeah, no problem for the offshore 3rd party billers, especially those from the Cayman islands :D

dude, this thread is 6 FUCKING YEARS OLD

wtf?

tony286 · 09-06-2007, 04:10 PM

it brings up being fucked out of 13 grand all over again.

baddog · 09-06-2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gleem

LOL you bumped a 6 year old thread.

CONGRATS!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jace

dude, this thread is 6 FUCKING YEARS OLD

wtf?

You guys aren't very good at math, are you?

Ripshit · 09-06-2007, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

You guys aren't very good at math, are you?

They arent but I am

10-03-2002, 10:13 PM	#251
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,580	mrbling, Well said.... but you stuill need to pay the registration fees. Well worth it to have your own account though. Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-04-2002, 04:56 AM	#256
sexpress Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 621	How many Dutch processors are there? I know only one: multicards.com __________________ ADULT DOMAINS FOR SALE MAINSTREAM DOMAINS FOR SALE

10-04-2002, 07:25 AM	#261
FATPad Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,693	The big boys must be doing something wrong. All the people I talk to who run decent paysites (some of them pretty big ones) don't have problems with chargebacks. Maybe it's because they have what the tour promises, don't charge $40.00 for a pile of shit, and don't try to mislead people with 3 day trials that renew automatically in 48 hours and other crap like that. The only people in danger of getting kicked for chargebacks are people who run crappy paysites and rely on people forgetting to cancel or who bury crap in their TOS. __________________ <a href="http://www.adultcontent.co.uk">Adult Content UK - Great British Content</a>

10-04-2002, 09:19 AM	#265
vik Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Minneapolis Posts: 144	Well, since my e-mail from CCBILL yesterday, and after 2 days of reading this entire thread, I can see that we all have to do some hard thinking on what the best course of action is. I've been doing this adult website stuff since 1996, and have had my own ups and downs, including $8,000/mo profit my first couple of years, down to almost nothing now. My first 3rd party processor, WWIA in Crestview, FL, due to an unscrupulous (sp?) sys admin, had his merchant account frozen in Dec, 1999, my $3,000 check bounced, he ended up over $100,000 in debt to Visa/MC, and owed me over $7,000. Because I had the lowest charge-back ratio, he kept me on with his new merchant account until he decided this shit wasn't worth it anymore, and 1 year later he paid me my arrears (money I thought was lost forever). I checked in on getting my own merchant account but decided "pledging my house and ALL my assets" wasn't worth it. Too many surfers abusing the system and charging back for legitimate signups (covered many times in this thread). When I was shopping for a new 3rd party processor at Internext (then IA2000), CCBILL (Ron & Craig) woowed me by telling me they use multiple servers and multiple locations, to move bad accounts from one to the other to "mathematically" keep the ratios down. Don't know for sure if it's true or not, but it sounded good. Like everyone else, I have to make the same decisions, and as crappy as the net has gotten for signups and retentions, I can't let $750.00 keep me from receiving the $1,500/month I'm struggling to maintain. However, I did e-mail CCBILL this morning and ask if I can charge a higher rate for the VISA charges than I do for the others, as VISA cards all start with the number "4", so it should be an easy programming change, but CCBILL replied back they "couldn't" do it. I prefer to believe they don't want to do it. Finally, this morning, I raised the prices on my pay sites 50%. Guess the only way to beat this is pass it on to the consumer, and maybe their power of a large number of complaints to VISA will get the assholes to re-consider what they are doing. Regards, and thanks for taking the time to read such a long reply. vik __________________ PhotosByVik.com Photonudity.com

10-04-2002, 12:33 PM	#266
unoino Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: cyberspace Posts: 2	I think there is more going on than just Visa putting this charges out there, and that the billing companies sent the message out together. just makes you wonder. And this is probably just rumor but heard on another board that if you try to switch billing companies the billing companies want to fine you for doing so. Whats up with that, sounds like a DMR ploy, but hey who knows. Does anyone know what is happening with the international processors? such as Verotel or Dutchbill, iPay. And why did the notice come from "the billing people" and not from Visa themselves? and why only a two week notice? seems like a lot of unanswered questions. Last edited by unoino; 10-04-2002 at 12:46 PM..

10-03-2002, 10:59 PM	#252
slickchic Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2	I hear everyone say well I have my $750. So what if MC discover and all those other credit card companies follow suit? do you have enough money then? we process my own credit cards. we have not heard anything about this from our merchant sevices. I am assuming this is to do with third party billers. I must say I blame the comsumers of our paysites, and the banks that issue these credit cards. The banks are to free in allowing these assholes to charge back even though they use our services. You can have all the right documentation for each transaction and they still get their money back. OR do they???? Or is ibill and the others trying to fuck us all. I have searched visa.com for their new regs but have not found any as of yet. Or do we take the word of Ibill and the rest on this one. If you have the time, (which most of us don't) you can set -up your own merchant account and charge cards by phone for as little as $500.00 anyway I will let you know if I find out anything tomorrow. I will make a few phone calls to see what is going on with visa.

10-03-2002, 11:28 PM	#253
chaze Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 9,752	It seems everyone is ready to sell out the next guy in a heart beat. The reason why this happened is because they know we won't work together to contest this, The same principle happens in life the rich get richer and poorer get poorer. Just because you can afford it and it will bring more business to larger companies does not make it a good thing. I seen a post earlier saying the site should be registered and maybe pay $200 that sounds better and safer. but to suck $700 bucks out of good companies because of shitty charge backs. Well @#$% that. The bottom line is it's the banks fault for letting customers get their money back and not being able to stop fraud themselves. So hey lets put the wait on the merchant well @#$% that too. Peace, Charles

10-04-2002, 06:06 AM	#257
jeroman So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Norway or UK or...damn, where am I Posts: 356	Why wasn't we given this information much sooner ? Or did VISA just tell you guys (ccbill,epoch,ibill) ?? Or did you just figure out how to handle this, 1 week before the paperwork starts ? I'm not from US, how funny is that at a time like this ? Now I need to get a social sec ID, Tax ID, Bussines name in US and like that is not hard enougf I need to do it within a week LOL Anyone have the stats on how much visa process against Mastercard and other cards ??? Jeroman

10-04-2002, 06:08 AM	#258
Petr Confirmed User Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 502	60-70%

10-04-2002, 06:14 AM	#259
Saruman Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Prague, Czech Posts: 117	I am really shocked!

10-04-2002, 06:46 AM	#260
AM Jeff Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The House Of Rage Posts: 1,320	Kimmy Kim, Yep...I agree. What people don't realize is this.... They get that 1 chargeback out of 100 and they are at their 1%. More in likely, they'll have 3 to 5 chargebacks out of 100 and that'll put their system on being monitored, possible a reserve account. If they're over that 5% chargeback ratio for a 3 month peroid. VISA can have their account terminated. Poeple, I have had merchant accounts. Its not all cream and cookies. You have to play the game much..much more carefully when you have your own. Play the game right and be carefu. Stick with the very best in customer service and when you get a chargeback inquiry, don't fuck around and try to dispute. You'll lose without that SIGNED authorization from the consumer. You let down just a hair, you'll find you been blacklisted and COULD fuck up your credit. It has happened to some people. I was lucky enough to have enough in reserve to cover my ass. Why do you think the BIG boys use 3rd party processing? Because of the headaches that come along with t Merchant account. Merchant account is up to you. Things I enjoyed about it. If I had a BIG weekend. My Money was in my bank account daily. Bad things are chargebacks. I've been in this business now 6, almost 7 years. I had both, merchant and 3rd party. IMHO, sticky with the 3rd party. They cover your ass. The $750 fee...fuck it. All part of life. Ever changing business shit that happens on a every day thing. It's always something. You wanna play the merchant account game. Its your ass, your choice...not mine. Some of you will be glad you had a merchant account. Some of you will wish you never left 3rd party. Be fucking careful.

10-04-2002, 07:52 AM	#263
AM Jeff Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The House Of Rage Posts: 1,320	Nah...Surfers rarly read the TOS. They just wanna get it off. Yes, there are some who run shitty shits. Lots of them and promise the moon and have no where near what they promise. BUT...most chargebacks come from people who don't give a shit about what you have inside. Chargebacks come from people who know they can get away with it, or college students who spend so much on porn. They don't have anything left on their card,or wives who find out their husbands been jerking off to the computer and claim they never signed up for shit. Reason I know this? I have 2 filing cabinets full of chargeback reciepts and had numberous phone calls from wives wanting to know whats on their card. Honestly...you'd be fucking blown away if you read some of the shit and excuses that come in on chargebacks. Funny thing is..people claim their card number must have been hijacked off the web..but the bank NEVER cancels the card and re-issues a new one. The real problem is. Banks let consumers do whatever they want. Making the merchants the fall guy. The small problem is us. There are some sites out there that create chargebacks. The REAL problems are the consumers. I can go to Amazon.com right now and order $300 in books..get charged and next month...chargeback without breaking a sweat and still get all them books for free. Reason...No signed reciept. No proof I authorized any sale. You also gotta remember this. I bet , not just the porn sites are going thru this. I bet...lots of mainstream sites are going thru the same thing. The internet game as whole is high risk. Why..NO SIGNED RECIEPT. CONSUMERS CAN CHARGEBACK EASILY. Untill the banks get a grip on the consumers. We will always have issues regaurding this matter. ALWAYS.

10-05-2002, 12:27 PM	#267
westman Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 34	PayPal, what is happening with them? There is nothing on their site concerning this Visa thing?!

10-05-2002, 12:34 PM	#268
mistressofnite Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 64	"Funny thing is..people claim their card number must have been hijacked off the web..but the bank NEVER cancels the card and re-issues a new one. " That is a good point. Which brings me to another one, if these no-signature purchases are the reason that customers can get away with chargebacks in the first place, what happened to the idea of using a pin number, or even that three-digit number on the back of the card that some merchants require in addition to the credit card number as proof that you in fact are the holder? Methinks VISA doesn't give that much of an f, they'd rather just take the dough. Bastids.

10-05-2002, 12:36 PM	#269
kmanrox aka K-Man Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: The Gutter Posts: 29,290	fuck that i quit! j/k this will keep a good portion of the newbs away, and ive never habe more than 3% chargeback/credit total at the very max... __________________ Crypto HODLr Crypto mining Angel investor

10-05-2002, 12:39 PM	#270
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Porn Valley, CA Posts: 10,590	Well, someone earlier brought up a good point. This brings to mind another question: What is to stop Visa from just handing out FREE money to the customers whenever they feel like it, and charging the webmasters back for it??? If they don't make every effort to stop customer fraud... and put all the heat on the webmasters, what kind of business is that? That just isn't right. I feel that the customer should be responsible for something. __________________ "I'm selflessly supporting the common good, but only coincidentally looking out for No.1." Last edited by Voodoo; 10-05-2002 at 12:44 PM..

10-05-2002, 01:03 PM	#271
Adultbouncer Rob Registered User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: a,a,a Posts: 50	many big companies probably dont hae their own merchant because they do alot of devious and bad things its not their merchant so they dont care.. I have my own merchant and its below 1% in CB/RF. But who knows. I guess the adult industry will thin out. __________________ SIG TOO BIG! Maximum 120x60 button and no more than 3 text lines of DEFAULT SIZE and COLOR. Unless your sig is for a GFY top banner sponsor, then you may use a 624x80 instead of a 120x60.

10-05-2002, 05:38 PM	#272
StacyCat Confirmed User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,167	I work for a credit card company, in collections. Actually, ive seen charges that were claimed as false be overturned because the physical address the items was shipped to was the same. interesting theory for chargebacks, to make it foolproof. :-) Buy this CD, get 1 month on access. Buy this video, and get 6 months of access. Access starts immediatly, and item gets shipped to address on credit card file.

10-05-2002, 05:50 PM	#273
AM Jeff Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The House Of Rage Posts: 1,320	Voodoo..thats the problem. The Banks and VISA allow consumers to chargeback just because they have an itch and often as they like. What they NEED to be doing is looking at the consumer...and us. But most chargebacks are due to consumers KNOW they can.

10-05-2002, 06:24 PM	#274
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 73,347	I've said some of this in another Visa thread, so excuse me if I'm reapeating myself..... Recently someone on GFY posted a link to a password page. This gave me access to a lot of different member's areas. One of the websites - a cheerleading website - had a member's area full of feeds. No pictures, no real content - only feeds. I could imagine what their chargeback rate is like. I'm working my ass off making sure all of our tours are honest, and that are members areas are udpated on a regular basis with never seen before content we've shot ourselves. The end result is nearly no chargebacks or refunds at all. Anyone can get into the adult business. You don't need to really file any paperwork, and you don't need wads of cash like a real business. The end result is a lot of assholes get into the business. Visa is doing what the online adult business coudln't do itself - Cleaning house. __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

10-05-2002, 07:55 PM	#276
harvey Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 9,266	Does it means I'll be finally able to use my Diners Club credit card? On the other hand, if Visa requires just 500, why processors want 750? There's no possible way they'll spend 250 in administration spents due to this, so I guess it's more like "OK, here's a good excuse to get some money for nothing". I don't know how or when, but this will clearly affect 3rd part processors very bad, just a feeling. And the main reason will be that people trusting in them as service providers is seeing they don't care very much about customer (webmasters) retention. It's like Marketing 1, instead of looking for a way to go thru this with the minimum pain for their customers, they decide to charge even more Hope they get back to Earth soon __________________ This post is endorsed by CIA, KGB, MI6, the Mafia, Illuminati, Kim Jong Il, Worldwide Ninjas Association, Klingon Empire and lolcats. Don't mess around with it, just accept it and embrace the truth

10-05-2002, 07:58 PM	#277
harvey Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 9,266	And yes, I've the $750, but I simply don't want to give it for free, nobody gives me money for nothing, I don't want to do it either, sorry to ego-trip based posters __________________ This post is endorsed by CIA, KGB, MI6, the Mafia, Illuminati, Kim Jong Il, Worldwide Ninjas Association, Klingon Empire and lolcats. Don't mess around with it, just accept it and embrace the truth

10-05-2002, 08:01 PM	#278
harvey Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 9,266	And finally: I know a very good way for non-hassle, non-chargebacks payment, a system that doesn't exist, but since I don't have the (big) money to implement it, I guess you'll need to wait for something else __________________ This post is endorsed by CIA, KGB, MI6, the Mafia, Illuminati, Kim Jong Il, Worldwide Ninjas Association, Klingon Empire and lolcats. Don't mess around with it, just accept it and embrace the truth

10-06-2002, 12:33 PM	#284
markusborger So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 145	Respectfull and Beloved Webmasters, We at AnimalDollars have always overcome all this sort of VISA problems and allways will. We want to assure our advertisers that we already (today) have a solution for this one too. Promoting AnimalDollars sites will continue to give you more cash then anything else. : Best Regards Mark AnimalDollars Administration

10-06-2002, 07:49 PM	#285
drewdazz Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 4	SOLUTION-VISA SIN TAX My billing company is in the Netherlands (off-shore). Click here for more info: http://www.nylons.org/drew/clickhere.html Drew, webmistress The Nylon Network __________________ Drew

10-10-2002, 11:01 AM	#287
slickchic Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 2	We have searched high and low and found the following company that does not make you pay the fee like all other thrid party billing companies are doing http://www.globill-systems.com/cgi-b...i?parent=3998s btw found info on ibill,ccbill and other they new about these new regs 5 months ago they could have told us then so we all could have saved the $750.00. Lack of foresight on their part will lose them mega bucks

10-10-2002, 11:56 AM	#290
Voodoo ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Porn Valley, CA Posts: 10,590	Will this thread ever go away? __________________ "I'm selflessly supporting the common good, but only coincidentally looking out for No.1."

10-15-2002, 02:35 PM	#291
davek Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 1	Hmmmm.... I manage 2 separate ccbill accounts - my own and one in a partnership - plus an ibill account. I have received no notification, bills, requests for info, forms, or indeed any communication at all from them about this. And no disrespect, but a posting in GFY hardly qualifies as reasonable notice to clients, does it? I suspect the whole thing is so much smoke (like the one about ICQ charging a fee a few years ago). Probably designed by big operators to scare the little guys out of business, leaving more money for themselves. However, if it is true, then I suspect Visa will lose more money than they make off this policy decision. I for one can promise that they will also lose my mainstream business account as well as the adult stuff, and I am sure that others will do the same.

10-15-2002, 05:43 PM	#292
Reaper Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 44	Why doesnt Ibill and all the other proccessors pay the 750 to visa and wham thats all. Sorry if I dont understand this correctly but visa isnt charging individuals its charging 750 to the processor isnt it??? __________________ The war has just begun or has it passed us all by?

10-19-2002, 05:00 AM	#293
Web girl Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 34	CCBill you suck! How dare you refund someone with 1 week left on a 3 month membership. This is NOT the first time you have pulled shit like this ... just one more stunt pulled by the dip shits at CCBill. You are so afraid of a chargeback that you would rather let him con your clients? Free porn for him for life... Whoo Hoo, I bet he just LOVES you guys!! I see how valuable this $750 and $350 will be. We pay you, you make money and then you fuck us up the ass. Excuse me while I unzip my pants and bend over for your easier access.

09-06-2007, 04:10 PM	#298
tony286 lurker Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: atlanta Posts: 57,021	it brings up being fucked out of 13 grand all over again.