Glo-Bill.com response to CCBill - GoFuckYourself.com

A.Martin · 10-03-2002, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RonC
We have been asked over and over to explain why we think Glo-bill will not be able to avoid the new regulations by moving offshore, and will Visa shut them down.

First off let me say I have only positive things to say about Glo-bill. I have never heard anything negative. I do not think that they have any bad intentions, just mis-information

To understand Visa you must first forget your common sense, and sense of fair play. The best way to understand them is to think of it this way. It is their bat, their ball, their field, and most important
their umpire, and did I forget to say they get to changes the rules during the middle of the game.

This is how the scenario will play out. Glo-bill is most likely going to try to say they are just the merchant, and they just pay a referral fee to webmasters for sending transactions.
lets say for simple math that 100 customers leave CCbill, Ibill and Epoch to go over to Glo-bill thinking the grass is greener on that side. They will pay the $750 to the current processor since
the recurring transactions are worth more than $750 per year and do not want to loose that income. CCbill, Ibill, or Paycom report that customers name and urls as a U.S. webmaster and are able to process it with no problem.
The end of the first month comes and Glo-bills new bank (lets say in Germany) gets a notice from Visa. The notice will say that they are currently in violation of section XXX. of their Visa operating agreement and
are introducing non coded High Risk IPSP transaction into the Visa system. You currently have 100 Sponsored merchants that are in violation of the cross boarder rules. The fine for this is $25,000 per Webmaster
or $2.5 million fine. (Guess webmaster are not getting checks this week) The bank will say wait a minute, we are not going to pay this, they will due what all banks do, they will pass this down to the merchant (Glo-bill). Visa will also let the bank know that they are in violation of their Master Merchant agreement with Visa and if the continue to send transaction into the Visa network they could loose their right to process Visa at that bank and or more possible future fines.. The risk people at the are going to say wait we have a merchant that could cause us to Loose our ability to process Visa, and we probably do not have reserves great enough at this point to cover future fines? What do we
do? The bank notifies Glo-bill they can only send transaction from webmasters in Germany or they will close their account.

Remember this is their bat, their ball, and their field, and their rules.

Now of course Glo-bill is going to try and appeal these fines, This is where the part about their umpire comes in. The answer from Visa is going to be to bad you broke the rules. Glo-bill will then be left with going to court, now in a forgein country, trying to convince a Judge that they should over rule Visas rules for a porn company that is trying to bypass their rules. Sure this will happen

For the people that claim this is only spin. Do you really think that all three of the largest billing companies did not have a larger army of lawyers work with Visa to find a way around these rules and only Glo-bill was able to find the path.

At the end of the day, it may have been just as simple as Visa will pick up the phone, call this new bank that Glo-bill just started a relationship with and say "We would like for you to discontinue doing this" End of conversation, since banks treat a call from Visa like the IRS. YES, Sir, Thank You Sir, We will do that Now Sir.

The reality is lots of new little companies will pop up, making all kinds of claims, Visa will handle them just like they do Bestiality, Lolita, etc.. They will close one down, and another will pop up. The webmaster that is promoting some content that is not except like Bestiality may not care that they lost their rebills, and call that a cost of business. The legit webmaster on the other hand may get thrown out with the rest and loose 60% of their money from their rebills

My Guess is that Glo-bill after talking to their banks further will realize that they were just mis-informed

Ron C
CEO, CCBILL.com

Ron,

Thank you very much for your opinion on our corporate strategy. You have spun an interesting projection based on your understanding of the new rules and based on your experience running one of the best third-party billing companies on the internet (no sarcasm, I mean that, btw). But there are some incorrect assumptions in your post that I would like to point out. Most importantly, I can assure that Glo-Bill is NOT misinformed about anything.

Without giving away the full game-plan on our strategy, I will say that it revolves around more than a simple jurisdictional issue. It were simply jurisdictional then, as you pointed out earlier, all third-party billers would have simply moved to some other country. We did our homework for months and implemented what we feel is the best all-round solution. Under the CURRENT rules, Glo-Bill forsees no problem with its current business model and it is business as usual for us. We are not employing a "run, hide and stall" strategy as your description seems to imply. We have openly discussed changes to our business model and jurisdictional issues with both the banks and credit card companies over the course of months. We have across-the-board approval for our way of doing business under the current regime. If the credit card companies decide to ammend their rules at some future time or implement a whole new set of regulations, then the only thing we can promise is that we will be on top of it, as we were this time, and try to once again come up with the best solution for our clients.

I will reiterate what I stated in previous posts:

We will not divulge the full details on our strategies for obvious reasons. We will say that we saw the writiing on the wall many months ago and started taking proactive measures since then to protect our clients' businesses to the best of our ability. The bottom line: it is business as usual at Glo-Bill, meaning:

- No set-up fees
- No monthly or annual fees
- No reporting of your private information to any outside entity
- Websites from foreign countries welcome as always without special requirements
- No Big Brother style registration forms and no scrutiny of your website by other entities
- We help you maintain your chargebacks at very low levels WITHOUT blindly declining good signups
- Still no free trials and proud of it!

Again, Ron, I would like to thank you for your post and your opinion of Glo-Bill. I think that in this time of change for the industry that certain companies are standing out for the way they are attempting to keep webmasters informed. Your presence on this board is certainly appreciated by many, including myself, and I think that speaks for itself. I know that CCBill is here to stay and is an anchor for the industry. And, if I may be so presumptuous to state, so is Glo-Bill.

Daymare · 10-03-2002, 11:06 AM

Web girl · 10-03-2002, 11:08 AM

Thank you.

Daymare · 10-03-2002, 11:08 AM

So I can start a paysite up here in Canada and not have to pay anything to Visa? It will be just the same it was a week ago. Nothing different? If Ron is a close to Visa as he says he is, and he says there is no way around it and that Visa is very clear that you must have a registered biz in the country you process for, how can globill get around it?

You have to keep your secrets, granted. But it doesn't make sense.

?????

A.Martin · 10-03-2002, 11:11 AM

Daymare,

I've been as clear as I can about the issue. As stated, there are no set-up fees. Please give my sales staff a call if you are interested in exploring our services.

flyingco · 10-03-2002, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A.Martin

Thank you very much for your opinion on our corporate strategy. You have spun an interesting projection based on your understanding of the new rules and based on your experience running one of the best third-party billing companies on the internet (no sarcasm, I mean that, btw). But there are some incorrect assumptions in your post that I would like to point out. Most importantly, I can assure that Glo-Bill is NOT misinformed about anything.

Without giving away the full game-plan on our strategy, I will say that it revolves around more than a simple jurisdictional issue. It were simply jurisdictional then, as you pointed out earlier, all third-party billers would have simply moved to some other country. We did our homework for months and implemented what we feel is the best all-round solution. Under the CURRENT rules, Glo-Bill forsees no problem with its current business model and it is business as usual for us. We are not employing a "run, hide and stall" strategy as your description seems to imply. We have openly discussed changes to our business model and jurisdictional issues with both the banks and credit card companies over the course of months. We have across-the-board approval for our way of doing business under the current regime. If the credit card companies decide to ammend their rules at some future time or implement a whole new set of regulations, then the only thing we can promise is that we will be on top of it, as we were this time, and try to once again come up with the best solution for our clients.

I will reiterate what I stated in previous posts:

We will not divulge the full details on our strategies for obvious reasons. We will say that we saw the writiing on the wall many months ago and started taking proactive measures since then to protect our clients' businesses to the best of our ability. The bottom line: it is business as usual at Glo-Bill, meaning:

- No set-up fees
- No monthly or annual fees
- No reporting of your private information to any outside entity
- Websites from foreign countries welcome as always without special requirements
- No Big Brother style registration forms and no scrutiny of your website by other entities
- We help you maintain your chargebacks at very low levels WITHOUT blindly declining good signups
- Still no free trials and proud of it!

Again, Ron, I would like to thank you for your post and your opinion of Glo-Bill. I think that in this time of change for the industry that certain companies are standing out for the way they are attempting to keep webmasters informed. Your presence on this board is certainly appreciated by many, including myself, and I think that speaks for itself. I know that CCBill is here to stay and is an anchor for the industry. And, if I may be so presumptuous to state, so is Glo-Bill.

I will state for a fact and if I were doing paysites right now, I would be willing to gamble that Glo-Bill may have a solution. I mean previously when I founded a THIRD PARTY COMPANY WAY BEFORE CCBill even came into the market, I was already looking at this. But I never got around further because I sold my company, but going offshore is an option. And I have NO DEALINGS WHATSOEVER with Glo-Bill and will state that if I had to choose right now from my past experience, CCBill has overlooked something and I am sure of it.

-Nato

pimpdog3 · 10-03-2002, 11:22 AM

Fuck ccbill and their strong arm tactics.. they are doing nothing short of raketering.

GLOBILL GLOBILL GLOBILL!! all the way baby!

salsbury · 10-03-2002, 11:23 AM

"for obvious reasons"

this can be taken several ways. i think the way it's being taken, generally, is that it is "obvious" because it is "illegit" (this is exacerbated by the statement "No reporting of your private information to any outside entity" when there will be cases this is required, guaranteed.) maybe it's obvious because you're worried your competitors will find out how you're doing it? i dunno, that seems short-sighted.

i'd be pretty nervous right now were i a glo-bill client, without more details.

however, sincerely, two thumbs up

on having no free trials.

Kimmykim · 10-03-2002, 11:23 AM

In the end, it is up to each business person to make the choice they feel is the right one for their business. The ones that make the correct choices will obviously be in business for the duration, the rest will fall by the wayside.

Perhaps DMR will return too lol...

Daymare · 10-03-2002, 11:40 AM

What is DMR?

eblastics · 10-03-2002, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daymare
What is DMR?

"Dacotah Marketing & Research". They were the premier processor in late '97 & '98. Unfortunately though, they let some big boys get away with 10-20% chargeback rates and it eventually caught up to them. They were shut down John Gotti style and everybody began scrambling. CCBILL and the other processors picked up most of their business. That's when people first started realizing that high chargebacks could result in severe punishment. IMO though, the major 3rd party processors didn't do enough to cramp down on the sites they processed for. They should have said "fuck you" to anybody over 2-3% chargebacks. Sure it's difficult to turn away any business, but in hingsight, it would be saving us all a ton of headaches right now.

Kimmykim · 10-03-2002, 11:48 AM

Almost correct.

Third party processors have had to stay in line since then or out they go, like Sypro, Digiblaze, etc.

Website owners with large volume and their own merchant accounts playing internet cowboy caused this.

Banks are sick of getting burned by pornographers, gambling site owners and other high risk transaction companies.

There is a reason it's called high risk.

TheFLY · 10-03-2002, 12:25 PM

Too many secrets -- guess it just comes down to which processor makes the most money...

eblastics · 10-03-2002, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Almost correct.

Third party processors have had to stay in line since then or out they go, like Sypro, Digiblaze, etc.

Website owners with large volume and their own merchant accounts playing internet cowboy caused this.

Banks are sick of getting burned by pornographers, gambling site owners and other high risk transaction companies.

There is a reason it's called high risk.

Website owners with their own merchant accounts are easy to deal with. If your merchant bank isn't happy with your results, out you go. But when you're a 3rd party processor who's processing millions per month via several different domestic & offshore merchant accounts, it's easier to stay afloat longer than 1 "high risk" account who has been at 5+% chargebacks for 6 straight months.

3rd party processors have resources, connections, legal teams, shuffling ability, etc... that can help sustain them in this industry, whereas a Joe Schmoe with his own merchant account only has his chargeback rate. If that's too high and making the bank displeased, your days are numbered.

EscortBiz · 10-03-2002, 12:36 PM

3rd party is the way to go thats for sure and I dont understand why people are raising hell about the 750 I know 750 is money but never thought it can spark such a deal

heymatty · 10-03-2002, 12:53 PM

Escort biz

In next week or so I have to incorporate in the US

Get a bank account in the US

Maybe get a dummy office, still waiting for clarification on this.

Work out a way to have the money sent from a US bank to a Canadian bank, hopefully fax signature will be ok.

Understand all the different US taxes, and additional legal burdens.

oh and pay $750

all that to be in exactly the same position I was in yesterday. Everything can be and will be done, its just a pain in the ass.

webbitch · 10-03-2002, 12:54 PM

I would have to say, without coming across as my name implies, that the answers to this Glo Bill situation is very slick.

You keep stating that Glo Bill has NO SET UP FEES! Neither does CCBill nor Ibill (if you know the right people). That is a correct statement but I am surprised that no one else has picked up on this sooner

A set up fee is COMPLETELY different from a Visa Regulation Fee for merhcants (3rd party and alike)! Visa and MatserCard both charge annual fees for those with merchant accounts (not referring to 3rd party here). Those fees are NOT imposed by the merchants card processing companies (i.e, cardservices, ip technology) but by Visa and MasterCard themselves.

Hence, a set up fee from a 3rd party processor is NOT a fee imposed by Visa or MasterCard. What V/MC imposes is what they impose and is SEPARATE from ANY merchant service(i.e., cardservices, ccbill, etc...). CCBill, IBill, etc cannot legally or ethically charge you $750.00 and say it is a fee from Visa for if Visa got wind of that, then they can shut these companies down with a single phone call and two simple words....SHUT DOWN!

So my question is here, is Glo Bill going to dodge Visa's new policy whereas those who transfer their accts over will find somewhere soon down the road that they have to pay and are possibly in violation REGARDLESS of the information that has been passed on to them, or is further reseach going to be conducted whereas you will find out that Visa is like the facist regiem that they are and once a decision is made, the webmaster truly has no choice but to pay? $750.00 is NOT a set up fee; it is a VISA POLICY period!

This is a big issue here and to take a "word" on it is riduculous or can Glo-Bill put this in writing for webmasters who are looking to transfer their accounts have the backing, in WRITING, that we need god forbid the building topples down around us?

BazookaDog · 10-03-2002, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyingco
I mean previously when I founded a THIRD PARTY COMPANY WAY BEFORE CCBill even came into the market, I was already looking at this. But I never got around further because I sold my company, but going offshore is an option.

You've really got a bug up your ass against CCBill don't you?

Great. You founded a 3rd Party Company way before CCBill & got out of the business, but were looking at this a long time ago...and that means what? Nothing. CCBill & all the rest have to actually deal with the situation (as in lay their business on the line), not sit here and speculate on what they should be doing to help you avoid paying a fee.

Glo-Bill has decided to take their chances by trying to work around the issue...More power to 'em. They're going to play the game a little differently, but even they can't say with absolute certainty that their gameplan is going to work. I'm sure they believe it will, & they may be right, but at this point nobody really knows.

But I just don't get it....How can anyone fault a company for not taking their operation offshore so they can save you a few bucks? Further, how can anyone claim the processors are using strong-arm tactics in this? Visa's making the rules.

Kimmykim · 10-03-2002, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eblastics

Website owners with their own merchant accounts are easy to deal with. If your merchant bank isn't happy with your results, out you go. But when you're a 3rd party processor who's processing millions per month via several different domestic & offshore merchant accounts, it's easier to stay afloat longer than 1 "high risk" account who has been at 5+% chargebacks for 6 straight months.

Sorry eblastics, but you are wrong. 90% of the rip off companies that caused this mess are still out there, processing probably just as many charges as they were a year or two ago. They change names and companies just like normal people change underwear.

They know what the dodgy scam they run is, and they are very good at it.

In the end, they will probably be the last ones standing.

[H] · 10-03-2002, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Website owners with large volume and their own merchant accounts playing internet cowboy caused this.

you keep hammering this theme and it's really pissing alot of people off. Just because someone wants to maintain full control of their business, that makes them an *Internet cowboy*?

You've got some real attitude problems.

flyingco · 10-03-2002, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BazookaDog

You've really got a bug up your ass against CCBill don't you?

Great. You founded a 3rd Party Company way before CCBill & got out of the business, but were looking at this a long time ago...and that means what? Nothing. CCBill & all the rest have to actually deal with the situation (as in lay their business on the line), not sit here and speculate on what they should be doing to help you avoid paying a fee.

Glo-Bill has decided to take their chances by trying to work around the issue...More power to 'em. They're going to play the game a little differently, but even they can't say with absolute certainty that their gameplan is going to work. I'm sure they believe it will, & they may be right, but at this point nobody really knows.

But I just don't get it....How can anyone fault a company for not taking their operation offshore so they can save you a few bucks? Further, how can anyone claim the processors are using strong-arm tactics in this? Visa's making the rules.

Firstly, I don't have a thing against CCBill, they grew their company to what they are because of smart marketing and good business sense. I am ONLY using them as an example.

I already sympathize with what they must be going through right now ok? I know it will be a huge issue for them. But let me put it this way, there are a few things that I am stating right now which I feel is necessary to be said.

1. Third Party Processing if what the "Big 5" have stated there is NO way around, is going to lose a LOT of business. In every matter, there is a solution. I chose to believe the Big 5 haven't found a solution to their problems yet. And I strongly urge them to find one.

2. They aren't saving me jack cash ok? It doesn't matter to me if Visa starts their regulations. I don't depend on Visa right now and could give no more then 2 hoots about what they choose to do. But it is what I feel the misinformation that is going about that I am choosing to correct. And you don't have to be up on my ass ok?

3. I empathize with people who are not based in the US that is it. Ok? Is that a ~!@#$%^& crime to state that I feel this way?

You are right that no one is right until things come to past and we look on hindsight. This ruling can change the way a lot of stuff goes on THOUGH.

Here is my issue and LET ME ONCE AGAIN CLARIFY.

You are a US company and you place your trust in an IPSP.
Now, what happens if their fraud scrubbing causes you to have 5% for 6 months? You get black listed and can no longer get any one to process for you then what happens?

This can happen to ANY BIG COMPANY ok? So then what? They default and then? Think about it ok? It has a chain reaction ok?

-Nato

Paul Markham · 10-03-2002, 01:11 PM

To anyone who wants to know.

I spoke to Paypal today and no one there knew anything about this.

They said they would have known if it was happening by the middle of next month.

Rochard · 10-03-2002, 01:14 PM

It pretty much boils down to who you want to believe. Sounds to me like Glo-Bill is trying to work around the issue. Hey, that's great. All of the cheats with high chargeback percentages can move to Glo-Bill, and then Glo-Bill will get shut down by Visa.

Isn't this what Visa is trying to do? Get rid of the dryrot that makes everyone else in the industry look bad?

2dXtreme · 10-03-2002, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by salsbury
"for obvious reasons"

this can be taken several ways. i think the way it's being taken, generally, is that it is "obvious" because it is "illegit" (this is exacerbated by the statement "No reporting of your private information to any outside entity" when there will be cases this is required, guaranteed.) maybe it's obvious because you're worried your competitors will find out how you're doing it? i dunno, that seems short-sighted.

i'd be pretty nervous right now were i a glo-bill client, without more details.

however, sincerely, two thumbs up on having no free trials.

I think the reasons are really obvious

This situation and the way they found to solve it puts them ahead of the competition, and no matter on how friendly terms you are dealing with the other 3th party processors they ARE the competition.

If I were Globill I cetainly would not help them find out how to do the same and loose my edge.

Plain and simple(and legal) business IMHO

Honeyslut · 10-03-2002, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
It pretty much boils down to who you want to believe. Sounds to me like Glo-Bill is trying to work around the issue. Hey, that's great. All of the cheats with high chargeback percentages can move to Glo-Bill, and then Glo-Bill will get shut down by Visa.

Isn't this what Visa is trying to do? Get rid of the dryrot that makes everyone else in the industry look bad?

Have you ever used Globill for a processor ? Are you familiar with their policies and what they tell their clients ? How they run business ?

Some of you need to RESEARCH on Glo bill before you mouth off .
I don't make any comments about other processors since I don't use them nor am I familiar with their procedures..

I bet on a whole chargebacks are very LOW with all of Globill's customers. I know I have had 0 chargebacks in the last 2 years.

I can just see people going to the competitor's sites and doing shit loads of chargebacks to run others outta of the business after the new rules take place..

I would have no problem paying GLO BILL the $750. I do have a problem with webmasters from other countries having to incorporate in America considering VISA is world wide.......

eblastics · 10-03-2002, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Sorry eblastics, but you are wrong. 90% of the rip off companies that caused this mess are still out there, processing probably just as many charges as they were a year or two ago. They change names and companies just like normal people change underwear.

They know what the dodgy scam they run is, and they are very good at it.

In the end, they will probably be the last ones standing.

Listen up EVERYBODY! Kimmykim just said it loud & clear...
If you get blacklisted, all you have to do is "change names and companies". Geez, Visa & MC probably never thought people would do that. They have to go back to the drawing boards now.
Maybe they should hire you for all the intuitive thinking & original ideas you can think of that slipped by them.

3rd party processors are the problem with this industry. They make it easy for shithole sites to remain hidden & discreet. Well, that's about the change. If everybody had their own merchant accounts from day one, it would have been much easier to weed out the bad seeds early on. Instead 3rd party processors have been sheltering them for years, many of them going out of business in the process (DMR, Sypro, WTS, Lancelot, Digiblaze, etc... etc...). And what happens after that? Those same pieces of shit that caused those 3rd party processors to get shut down move to another 3rd party processor (with their high CB rates) and cause problems for a different processor.

Kimmykim · 10-03-2002, 01:53 PM

You are a dumbass eblastics, there is no other way to say it.

Visa is well aware of who does what, perhaps this time they will put an end to it, since blacklisting and telling banks to terminate them hasn't stopped it.

Perhaps you are one of them? If so, I hope you are the first one out of business.

DrewKole · 10-03-2002, 02:02 PM

Shrugs... let Glo-bill be...

They're gonna just be harboring cheaters, scammers, spammers, and ofcourse the innocent small paysite owners (I didnt want to group you with the rest, so dont get pissed).

I just hope the smart and honest ones think ahead of time, because... VISA will most likely change their mind on this issue, if Globill is currently abiding by their new regulations...

Would be awesome to see a good majority of the cheaters and dickheads in this business get flushed down the toilet when Visa kills all transactions by Globill tho.

So... enjoy it while you can...

I wouldn't step anywhere near it, regardless, I'll play it safe and chill with the "gestapo-3" as someone referred to earlier.

eblastics · 10-03-2002, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
You are a dumbass eblastics, there is no other way to say it.

Visa is well aware of who does what, perhaps this time they will put an end to it, since blacklisting and telling banks to terminate them hasn't stopped it.

Perhaps you are one of them? If so, I hope you are the first one out of business.

Until next month, Visa & MC aren't keeping aware of anything. That's what these new regulations are about you nitwit. Until now, merchant accounts as a whole were monitored, not every single site piggy backing on 'em.

Instead of booting the high chargeback sites like they should have from day one, what does your 3rd party processor do to fight chargebacks? They tighten scrubbing and decline 60% of all attempted transactions. Then again, should I have expected more from a company that employs such intuitive geniuses as yourself?

Don't make me come bitch slap you!

DrewKole · 10-03-2002, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eblastics

Until next month, Visa & MC aren't keeping aware of anything. That's what these new regulations are about you nitwit. Until now, merchant accounts as a whole were monitored, not every single site piggy backing on 'em.

Instead of booting the high chargeback sites like they should have from day one, what does your 3rd party processor do to fight chargebacks? They tighten scrubbing and decline 60% of all attempted transactions. Then again, should I have expected more from a company that employs such intuitive geniuses as yourself?

Don't make me come bitch slap you!

Can I be the indian?!

NETbilling · 10-03-2002, 02:18 PM

eblastics,

Thousands of high risk merchant manage their merchant account without any problems. You just need to have the right company behind you. Whether you are third party or having your own account, 5-6% chargebacks is not acceptable at all. With the new regs, there is no more hiding behind your IPSP. The playing field is levelelling out quickly.

Mitch

jimmyf · 10-03-2002, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim
Almost correct.

Third party processors have had to stay in line since then or out they go, like Sypro, Digiblaze, etc.

Website owners with large volume and their own merchant accounts playing internet cowboy caused this.

Banks are sick of getting burned by pornographers, gambling site owners and other high risk transaction companies.

There is a reason it's called high risk.

I remember Sypro... I had just started a small paysite.... Got 20 or so sign-ups within 2 days... And they went went under... Shit some of the Big boss's were in on it I think(the fraud). That was my one and only paysite.

...One guy I talked 2 had just gotten his all up and running... he got burned for like 15K... and most were for recurring.... what a fucking mess...

[H] · 10-03-2002, 02:19 PM

I agree with eblastics.

Mr.Fiction · 10-03-2002, 03:27 PM

Most people who have been in the industry for a while know some of the biggest merchant account juggling companies. As Kimmy said, those people will be the last ones standing. That's the fucked thing about this whole mess.

Swiftone · 10-03-2002, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by salsbury
"for obvious reasons"

this can be taken several ways. i think the way it's being taken, generally, is that it is "obvious" because it is "illegit" (this is exacerbated by the statement "No reporting of your private information to any outside entity" when there will be cases this is required, guaranteed.) maybe it's obvious because you're worried your competitors will find out how you're doing it? i dunno, that seems short-sighted.

i'd be pretty nervous right now were i a glo-bill client, without more details.

however, sincerely, two thumbs up on having no free trials.

No, it's quite obviously being kept under wraps beacuse this gives them a DISTINCT ADVANTAGE in 3rd party billing, and the longer they can hold on to it the better for them.

E-Randy · 10-03-2002, 05:29 PM

Fo Guck SourYelf

webbitch · 10-03-2002, 05:52 PM

I hear more power to Glo Bill for trying to work around Visa's strongarm however, will you be saying that when they tell you at the end of the year you have to pay either $750.00 or a 25k fine because that "work around"?

I hope they do find a way around it but I will wait til I see something more substantial then someone's word. I mean come on people! You have seen this industry take a nose dive off of other people's "word"! Think that would send up flags?

I am a small webmistress and I refuse to take word of mouth. Some call it not the "in crowd" thing to do cause everyone else will travel to what they hope are greener pastures but I am not about to let someone screw with my already limted money on a hope and a prayer.

Give me something in writing stating that I will not be effected and I am all for it as I am sure many of you are thinking but won't state. This is a big deal and I'm sorry, a handshake won't do on this one.

s0laris2 · 10-03-2002, 05:54 PM

Here is my 2 cemnts worth

I had a Canadian merchant account. Until Moneris took the 0% tolerance on adult entertainment and shut be down.

When I got a chargeback, VISA or Mastercard took the charge off my next monthly statement plus a 5 dollar charge. If it was a fraudulent card, same thing would happen.

They were NOT losing money on frauds, chargeback, they were MAKING money!

So as far as I am concerned this is a huge Cash Grab for Visa.

but we have to pay 750 PER 3rdparty biller. Also Master card, Diners, Amex, JCB WILL follow suit. and they may all charge 250 bucks each.. Ya it is the cost of doing business.. fine.. but it is not helping anything but there pocketbooks.. the 3rd party billers do not get one cent of this.

Any thoughts?

PornoDoggy · 10-03-2002, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
It pretty much boils down to who you want to believe. Sounds to me like Glo-Bill is trying to work around the issue. Hey, that's great. All of the cheats with high chargeback percentages can move to Glo-Bill, and then Glo-Bill will get shut down by Visa.

Isn't this what Visa is trying to do? Get rid of the dryrot that makes everyone else in the industry look bad?

KimmyKim is right is the sense that the cheaters will not be detered by this ... they'll just find another way to do it. It may slow them down, but not for long.

Is Glo-Bill offering a guarantee that their secret strategy will allow webmasters to continue to function as always? And an issue such as this has to affect PayPal, so I would suggest that the fact that employees reached by phone who were unaware of it, rather than suggesting some kind of conspiracy, just speaks very bacly of them.

Dax · 10-03-2002, 06:03 PM

In my eyes, if they are gonna charge anything.. it should only be ONE per entity.. not per biller... so this means that unless you want to GIVE AWAY $750 you will be stuck with one biller and hence put all your EGGS in one basket.. That is what really gets to me.. Somebody should come out with the
PORNCARD - everywhere where visa doesnt want to be.

Kimmykim · 10-03-2002, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by eblastics

Until next month, Visa & MC aren't keeping aware of anything. That's what these new regulations are about you nitwit. Until now, merchant accounts as a whole were monitored, not every single site piggy backing on 'em.

Hello dumbass, hows that big W for wrong looking on your head. For the last 6 months, processors have been reporting chargebacks to Visa PER TRANSACTION, PER URL.

SextrafficPete · 10-03-2002, 06:17 PM

globill will profit nicely

this is only for north american third party billers anyways, so who cares ;)

Ursa · 10-03-2002, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kimmykim

Hello dumbass, hows that big W for wrong looking on your head. For the last 6 months, processors have been reporting chargebacks to Visa PER TRANSACTION, PER URL.

So, Visa has a file on each of us who may have had a chargeback within the last six months? What other information have the processors been 'reporting'? If they've been doing this for free, why charge now?

Also, do you know where I can find a copy of the "New Rules" from Visa? I'd very much like to read it myself.

Thanks.

eblastics · 10-03-2002, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by netbilling
eblastics,

Thousands of high risk merchant manage their merchant account without any problems. You just need to have the right company behind you. Whether you are third party or having your own account, 5-6% chargebacks is not acceptable at all. With the new regs, there is no more hiding behind your IPSP. The playing field is levelelling out quickly.

Mitch

I absolutely agree with you Mitch. Take this scenario...
Let's say "Shithole Inc." switches their 13 paysites to Digiblaze in '99 and they bring with them 200 signups per day, as well as a 6% chargeback rate. Eventually, the heat will come down, but on who? Not "Shithole. Inc", rather Digiblaze, who in fact got shutdown for this very reason. What happens to "Shithole, Inc"? Nothing, they peacefully & discreetly move to another 3rd party processor who gladly & blindly accepts them and their 200 signups per day, not giving a shit about their 6% chargeback rate.

My argument is that the major 3rd party processors should have been more cautious & agressive starting 3 years ago, being very srrict on who they process for and continued to process for. They weren't. They may claim they were, but they weren't. Instead of booting high chargeback sites, they increased the scrubbing and prevented more legit customers from getting approved, in turn screwing the honest, hard working sites & companies.

The douche bag, loud mouth, Kimmykim won't agree with me because she never thinks she's wrong, but she can rant all she wants. It still doesn't change the fact that I'm right.

What's next? 3rd party processors won't be able to shelter "Shithole, Inc" because from now on, VISA & MC are gonna keep a close eye on them, as well as everybody else accepting a CC online. So "Shithole, Inc." better lower their chargeback rate or start thinking of a career change.

A.Martin · 10-03-2002, 10:19 PM

eblastics,

You are indeed correct. You have identified a major problem that has plagued the industry for years.

On our end, and from day one, we have always been very strict on chargebacks. We have a system of warnings and flags that notify webmasters the minute there is a problem. By the time they hit 0.3% chargebacks, let alone 1%, they are already hearing from us - not in a draconian way but they get our attention and our help. In almost all cases, webmasters work with us to lower their chargebacks.

It is funny that you mention Digiblaze. When that company went down, I talked personally with a number of webmasters who were using them and now looking for a new home. They proudly claimed they were doing in excess of $100k per month with "only" 2% chargebacks. I wished them best of luck in their search for a new third-party biller

quiet · 10-03-2002, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by A.Martin
They proudly claimed they were doing in excess of $100k per month with "only" 2% chargebacks.

too funny

flyingco · 10-03-2002, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dax
In my eyes, if they are gonna charge anything.. it should only be ONE per entity.. not per biller... so this means that unless you want to GIVE AWAY $750 you will be stuck with one biller and hence put all your EGGS in one basket.. That is what really gets to me.. Somebody should come out with the
PORNCARD - everywhere where visa doesnt want to be.

I don't think PornCard necessarily is going to take off. I don't think most people would carry a PornCard and show it off. Would you? But what needs to be done is have an alternative CARD like diners and push it really hard to take over Visa/MC hold on the credit card industry.

-Nato

flyingco · 10-03-2002, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by A.Martin
eblastics,

You are indeed correct. You have identified a major problem that has plagued the industry for years.

On our end, and from day one, we have always been very strict on chargebacks. We have a system of warnings and flags that notify webmasters the minute there is a problem. By the time they hit 0.3% chargebacks, let alone 1%, they are already hearing from us - not in a draconian way but they get our attention and our help. In almost all cases, webmasters work with us to lower their chargebacks.

It is funny that you mention Digiblaze. When that company went down, I talked personally with a number of webmasters who were using them and now looking for a new home. They proudly claimed they were doing in excess of $100k per month with "only" 2% chargebacks. I wished them best of luck in their search for a new third-party biller

Now, I am going to disagree with you A. Martin for your statement alone. ;) Not because I am a fair man, but I think your statement above is also misleading and you might want to look at your stuff once more; MAYBE.

Chargebacks has very little to do with the quality of a site. Heck, most chargebacks at least if not done internally are also caused by the customer's end.

Geez, it is NOT hard to figure out the Mod 10 algorithm for Credit Cards, and it is NOT rocket science to find a match on an AVS. A lot of people do chargebacks simply because people are dishonest by nature. Be is a 2% or a 0.02%, it will always happen in the third party billing industry. It is part of the game. Let me give you the scenario.

Someone does 10 transactions, you get one chargeback. Percentage is 10%. Someone does 1,000 transaction, you get 10 chargebacks. Percentage is 1%. But you should be worried about the 10 raw chargebacks instead of the 1 chargeback. You are barking to a certain extent up the wrong tree would you not? Besides, a third party billing lower's their CHARGEBACK across the board, but now that you have to report, I like to see YOUR COMPANY MAINTAIN lets say a decent 0.04% ACROSS THE BOARD FOR ALL PAYSITES.

It is NOT going to happen A.Martin, and you know it. I am saying your company may have found a niche if you do what you do right now and bypass the system. But if you report 0.04% PER SITE, geez, you should NOT be in this business but the FRAUD SCRUBBING one, you have a better deal then E Falcon and the rest. And you will be richer then them. So don't blow your horn on this right now. Sorry to be harsh, but your business model is good if you take it offshore, but if you are going to monitor PER COMPANY and require a certain chargeback rate then I think it is not realistic enuff.

-Nato

UnseenWorld · 10-04-2002, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RocHard
It pretty much boils down to who you want to believe. Sounds to me like Glo-Bill is trying to work around the issue. Hey, that's great. All of the cheats with high chargeback percentages can move to Glo-Bill, and then Glo-Bill will get shut down by Visa.

Isn't this what Visa is trying to do? Get rid of the dryrot that makes everyone else in the industry look bad?

If you believe this, you don't know Globill. Globill will not tolerate high chargeback rates. Never have, never will. That's why some people don't like them.

UnseenWorld · 10-04-2002, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by flyingco

I don't think PornCard necessarily is going to take off. I don't think most people would carry a PornCard and show it off. Would you? But what needs to be done is have an alternative CARD like diners and push it really hard to take over Visa/MC hold on the credit card industry.

-Nato

There are overseas charge cards. Industry leaders should buy them out and bring the card here. And, NO, it must not be called "Porn Card."

10-03-2002, 11:06 AM	#2
Daymare Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,674	Amen

10-03-2002, 11:11 AM	#5
A.Martin Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Walnut Creek, CA Posts: 22	Daymare, I've been as clear as I can about the issue. As stated, there are no set-up fees. Please give my sales staff a call if you are interested in exploring our services. __________________ A. Martin Vice President - Operations www.Glo-Bill.com

10-03-2002, 11:23 AM	#8
salsbury Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,070	"for obvious reasons" this can be taken several ways. i think the way it's being taken, generally, is that it is "obvious" because it is "illegit" (this is exacerbated by the statement "No reporting of your private information to any outside entity" when there will be cases this is required, guaranteed.) maybe it's obvious because you're worried your competitors will find out how you're doing it? i dunno, that seems short-sighted. i'd be pretty nervous right now were i a glo-bill client, without more details. however, sincerely, two thumbs up on having no free trials. __________________

10-03-2002, 12:36 PM	#15
EscortBiz Fuck Checks, CASH only! Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 19,422	3rd party is the way to go thats for sure and I dont understand why people are raising hell about the 750 I know 750 is money but never thought it can spark such a deal __________________ Spanking, Medical Fetish, Sleeping, Strap-on Anal Lesbians, Girls Fucking Guys, Handjob site REAL HOT, Shemales, Anal and Ass Licking sites 100% Real EXCLUSIVE with amazing retention, ccbill payouts, lots of content FREE FTP HOSTING Promote the largest and oldest member paid escort site, Converts 10 times better then any dating site, CCBill payouts ICQ# 158802076

10-03-2002, 12:53 PM	#16
heymatty Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Scottsdale :) Posts: 2,188	Escort biz In next week or so I have to incorporate in the US Get a bank account in the US Maybe get a dummy office, still waiting for clarification on this. Work out a way to have the money sent from a US bank to a Canadian bank, hopefully fax signature will be ok. Understand all the different US taxes, and additional legal burdens. oh and pay $750 all that to be in exactly the same position I was in yesterday. Everything can be and will be done, its just a pain in the ass. __________________ Cashlantis ~ Black Book Cash

10-03-2002, 11:08 AM	#3
Web girl Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 34	Thank you.

10-03-2002, 11:22 AM	#7
pimpdog3 So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 652	Fuck ccbill and their strong arm tactics.. they are doing nothing short of raketering. GLOBILL GLOBILL GLOBILL!! all the way baby!

10-03-2002, 11:23 AM	#9
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	In the end, it is up to each business person to make the choice they feel is the right one for their business. The ones that make the correct choices will obviously be in business for the duration, the rest will fall by the wayside. Perhaps DMR will return too lol...

10-03-2002, 11:40 AM	#10
Daymare Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 2,674	What is DMR?

10-03-2002, 11:48 AM	#12
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	Almost correct. Third party processors have had to stay in line since then or out they go, like Sypro, Digiblaze, etc. Website owners with large volume and their own merchant accounts playing internet cowboy caused this. Banks are sick of getting burned by pornographers, gambling site owners and other high risk transaction companies. There is a reason it's called high risk.

10-03-2002, 12:25 PM	#13
TheFLY So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: http://www.thefly.net/ --- Quit your job and live off steady traffic. Posts: 11,856	Too many secrets -- guess it just comes down to which processor makes the most money...

10-03-2002, 12:54 PM	#17
webbitch Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: nyc Posts: 2	I would have to say, without coming across as my name implies, that the answers to this Glo Bill situation is very slick. You keep stating that Glo Bill has NO SET UP FEES! Neither does CCBill nor Ibill (if you know the right people). That is a correct statement but I am surprised that no one else has picked up on this sooner A set up fee is COMPLETELY different from a Visa Regulation Fee for merhcants (3rd party and alike)! Visa and MatserCard both charge annual fees for those with merchant accounts (not referring to 3rd party here). Those fees are NOT imposed by the merchants card processing companies (i.e, cardservices, ip technology) but by Visa and MasterCard themselves. Hence, a set up fee from a 3rd party processor is NOT a fee imposed by Visa or MasterCard. What V/MC imposes is what they impose and is SEPARATE from ANY merchant service(i.e., cardservices, ccbill, etc...). CCBill, IBill, etc cannot legally or ethically charge you $750.00 and say it is a fee from Visa for if Visa got wind of that, then they can shut these companies down with a single phone call and two simple words....SHUT DOWN! So my question is here, is Glo Bill going to dodge Visa's new policy whereas those who transfer their accts over will find somewhere soon down the road that they have to pay and are possibly in violation REGARDLESS of the information that has been passed on to them, or is further reseach going to be conducted whereas you will find out that Visa is like the facist regiem that they are and once a decision is made, the webmaster truly has no choice but to pay? $750.00 is NOT a set up fee; it is a VISA POLICY period! This is a big issue here and to take a "word" on it is riduculous or can Glo-Bill put this in writing for webmasters who are looking to transfer their accounts have the backing, in WRITING, that we need god forbid the building topples down around us?

10-03-2002, 01:11 PM	#22
Paul Markham Too old to care Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: On the sofa, watching TV or doing my jigsaws. Posts: 52,943	To anyone who wants to know. I spoke to Paypal today and no one there knew anything about this. They said they would have known if it was happening by the middle of next month. __________________ Blowout deal. 880 videos, 2,400 image sets, plus many RAW videos. $500. PM me for a deal. Skype Paulmarkham70

10-03-2002, 01:14 PM	#23
Rochard Jägermeister Test Pilot Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: NORCAL Posts: 72,785	It pretty much boils down to who you want to believe. Sounds to me like Glo-Bill is trying to work around the issue. Hey, that's great. All of the cheats with high chargeback percentages can move to Glo-Bill, and then Glo-Bill will get shut down by Visa. Isn't this what Visa is trying to do? Get rid of the dryrot that makes everyone else in the industry look bad? __________________ “The choice is no longer between right or left. The choice is between normal and crazy.” - Sarah Huckabee Sanders YNOT MAIL \| THE BEST ADULT MAILING SOLUTION

10-03-2002, 01:53 PM	#27
Kimmykim bitchslapping zebras!!!!! Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: In a shack by the beach Posts: 16,015	You are a dumbass eblastics, there is no other way to say it. Visa is well aware of who does what, perhaps this time they will put an end to it, since blacklisting and telling banks to terminate them hasn't stopped it. Perhaps you are one of them? If so, I hope you are the first one out of business.

10-03-2002, 02:02 PM	#28
DrewKole Confirmed User Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 5,193	Shrugs... let Glo-bill be... They're gonna just be harboring cheaters, scammers, spammers, and ofcourse the innocent small paysite owners (I didnt want to group you with the rest, so dont get pissed). I just hope the smart and honest ones think ahead of time, because... VISA will most likely change their mind on this issue, if Globill is currently abiding by their new regulations... Would be awesome to see a good majority of the cheaters and dickheads in this business get flushed down the toilet when Visa kills all transactions by Globill tho. So... enjoy it while you can... I wouldn't step anywhere near it, regardless, I'll play it safe and chill with the "gestapo-3" as someone referred to earlier.

10-03-2002, 02:18 PM	#31
NETbilling Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 8,573	eblastics, Thousands of high risk merchant manage their merchant account without any problems. You just need to have the right company behind you. Whether you are third party or having your own account, 5-6% chargebacks is not acceptable at all. With the new regs, there is no more hiding behind your IPSP. The playing field is levelelling out quickly. Mitch __________________ Mitch Farber CEO - NETbilling, Inc. Email / Phone: 888-357-8166 / 661-252-2456 Transaction processing & 24/7 call center services with exceptional rates and flexibility, since 1998!

10-03-2002, 02:19 PM	#33
[H] So Fucking Banned Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 103	I agree with eblastics.

10-03-2002, 03:27 PM	#34
Mr.Fiction Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Free Speech Land Posts: 9,483	Most people who have been in the industry for a while know some of the biggest merchant account juggling companies. As Kimmy said, those people will be the last ones standing. That's the fucked thing about this whole mess.

10-03-2002, 05:29 PM	#36
E-Randy Confirmed User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 176	Fo Guck SourYelf __________________ ElectraContent.com 31 KICK ASS plugin products for $399! Massive Rods, College Girls, Panties, Lesbians, Toys and dildos, Dirty Blondes, Petite, Interracial, Sexy Housewives........

10-03-2002, 05:52 PM	#37
webbitch Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: nyc Posts: 2	I hear more power to Glo Bill for trying to work around Visa's strongarm however, will you be saying that when they tell you at the end of the year you have to pay either $750.00 or a 25k fine because that "work around"? I hope they do find a way around it but I will wait til I see something more substantial then someone's word. I mean come on people! You have seen this industry take a nose dive off of other people's "word"! Think that would send up flags? I am a small webmistress and I refuse to take word of mouth. Some call it not the "in crowd" thing to do cause everyone else will travel to what they hope are greener pastures but I am not about to let someone screw with my already limted money on a hope and a prayer. Give me something in writing stating that I will not be effected and I am all for it as I am sure many of you are thinking but won't state. This is a big deal and I'm sorry, a handshake won't do on this one. __________________ Bitch and that's all you need to know

10-03-2002, 05:54 PM	#38
s0laris2 Confirmed User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 317	Here is my 2 cemnts worth I had a Canadian merchant account. Until Moneris took the 0% tolerance on adult entertainment and shut be down. When I got a chargeback, VISA or Mastercard took the charge off my next monthly statement plus a 5 dollar charge. If it was a fraudulent card, same thing would happen. They were NOT losing money on frauds, chargeback, they were MAKING money! So as far as I am concerned this is a huge Cash Grab for Visa. but we have to pay 750 PER 3rdparty biller. Also Master card, Diners, Amex, JCB WILL follow suit. and they may all charge 250 bucks each.. Ya it is the cost of doing business.. fine.. but it is not helping anything but there pocketbooks.. the 3rd party billers do not get one cent of this. Any thoughts? __________________

10-03-2002, 06:03 PM	#40
Dax Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 3,161	In my eyes, if they are gonna charge anything.. it should only be ONE per entity.. not per biller... so this means that unless you want to GIVE AWAY $750 you will be stuck with one biller and hence put all your EGGS in one basket.. That is what really gets to me.. Somebody should come out with the PORNCARD - everywhere where visa doesnt want to be.

10-03-2002, 06:17 PM	#42
SextrafficPete Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 660	globill will profit nicely this is only for north american third party billers anyways, so who cares ;)

10-03-2002, 10:19 PM	#45
A.Martin Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Walnut Creek, CA Posts: 22	eblastics, You are indeed correct. You have identified a major problem that has plagued the industry for years. On our end, and from day one, we have always been very strict on chargebacks. We have a system of warnings and flags that notify webmasters the minute there is a problem. By the time they hit 0.3% chargebacks, let alone 1%, they are already hearing from us - not in a draconian way but they get our attention and our help. In almost all cases, webmasters work with us to lower their chargebacks. It is funny that you mention Digiblaze. When that company went down, I talked personally with a number of webmasters who were using them and now looking for a new home. They proudly claimed they were doing in excess of $100k per month with "only" 2% chargebacks. I wished them best of luck in their search for a new third-party biller __________________ A. Martin Vice President - Operations www.Glo-Bill.com