Could this become a serious adult industry legal concern?

[AaronM]

I'm honestly a bit concerned with the actions of a certain adult industry attorney and I'm wondering if anybody else feels the same.

As we all know, the outcome of legal battles is often influenced by past legal battles of either identical or similar characteristics. When there are convictions, those convictions may set precedent for future trials.

With that said......

A well known adult industry attorney has handled at least 4 fairly high profile cases in the recent past. Each of those 4 cases was plead guilty. One can't help but wonder why this attorney keeps going down this path and continuously establishing convictions without trial.

If this were a common practice among all of the adult industry lawyers then I might not think as much of it....But, I see other attorneys winning some of their cases, albeit after long trials and such but hey......At least they are fighting for their clients.

Feel free to discuss.

[bringer]

isnt the plea ultimately up to the client?

[tony286]

My big thought is why do people keep hiring this person?

[Chris]

good point you brought up

im sure these cases will screw soemone else in the future :/

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by bringer

isnt the plea ultimately up to the client?

Sure it is, but clients look to their attorneys for guidance. Not many clients get a lawyer and tell them they need their help to plead guilty.


Tony, that's one of my questions as well. Perhaps people are not aware of this track record?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by bringer

isnt the plea ultimately up to the client?

It is and it isn't. If the lawyer says to you,You want to fight great it's going to look like a long fight. So Im going to need 100k upfront or plead guilty and we can get it reduced. This will cost alot less. Now you aren't rich what do you choose?

[tony286]

Originally Posted by AaronM

Sure it is, but clients look to their attorneys for guidance. Not many clients get a lawyer and tell them they need their help to plead guilty.


Tony, that's one of my questions as well. Perhaps people are not aware of this track record?

It could be that,they don't follow this stuff til it affects them. They remember a name and go with it.

[czarina]

attorneys make more money when their clients plea guilty, because they dont have to prepare themselves for the case or fight it. That's pretty lame, but it's the sad truth.

[baddog]

Sometimes it is in the defendant's best interest to just cop a plea. No attorney has thre right to cop a plea for their client and they just do what is in the best interest of the client.

I am sure most attorneys, if just going for the cash would urge the client to turn it down, but that isn't what representation is about.

[gne112]

pleading guilty avoid the gamble of going in front of a judge.

[Deej]

Originally Posted by bringer

isnt the plea ultimately up to the client?

right, but people get attorneys to seek advice and influencing moves...

have you ever went through the process?

[bringer]

Originally Posted by AaronM

Sure it is, but clients look to their attorneys for guidance. Not many clients get a lawyer and tell them they need their help to plead guilty.


Tony, that's one of my questions as well. Perhaps people are not aware of this track record?

maybe he's good at getting the plea deal down to an acceptable level for his clients? why is it the lawyers fault when his client could just fire his ass and pay someone else to fight? one would think the lawyer would rather spend years fighting at his clients expense.

Originally Posted by tony404

It is and it isn't. If the lawyer says to you,You want to fight great it's going to look like a long fight. So Im going to need 100k upfront or plead guilty and we can get it reduced. This will cost alot less. Now you aren't rich what do you choose?

so its the lawyers fault for being honest with his client? im still not getting it...

[bringer]

Originally Posted by Deej

right, but people get attorneys to seek advice and influencing moves...

have you ever went through the process?

ive been in this very situation. i fired the lawyer who basicly told me it was a battle i couldnt win. his replacement got the job done and i dont have a conviction on my record. just because you're paying someone for advice doesnt mean what they tell you is correct or the only path you can choose.

[Thurbs]

what I don't fully understand, is why are people with some amount of money, rushing to lawyers that specialize in adult?

not that many cases as you have said, have gone that well, and who are these lawyers? what is their real experience? are they litigators that help with things like contracts / acquisitions? or is this just some ease of use, where people don't want to search for or pay for lawyers that aren't availalbe on GFY / Google under "Adult Industry Lawyer"

if first year lawyers can tackle business suits with years of precedents to go over, areas of info that requires market research, etc. one would assume you might want to seek some really good counsel outside of the industry

but you're right Aaron, it is a concern, b/c in legal matters, alot of rulings and prosecution cases are based on those past precedents, and we've had alot of losses recently

[DamageX]

What if they were guilty?

[Domain Diva]

so whos the attorney Aaron ?

[Deej]

Originally Posted by DamageX

What if they were guilty?

Thats just not possible

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by DamageX

What if they were guilty?

Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

[tony286]

Originally Posted by bringer

maybe he's good at getting the plea deal down to an acceptable level for his clients? why is it the lawyers fault when his client could just fire his ass and pay someone else to fight? one would think the lawyer would rather spend years fighting at his clients expense.



so its the lawyers fault for being honest with his client? im still not getting it...

An example I met with a adult attorney, he told me if you are my client and shit happens. I will defend you, we will figure out the money. I wont leave you hanging. So with him I would owe him for the rest of my life but he would defend me.Where someone else could say I need every dime upfront or I go no further pleading guilty is your best bet. Now in both of the cases its their right but a attorney is judged by his track record.

I quote the movie the verdict "We aren't paid to do our best, we are paid to win."

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by Promo Claire

so whos the attorney Aaron ?

If you really cared then you would already know the answer to that.

[marketsmart]

yawn.... ok here's the short answer... when you get hit on federal cases, they throw any charge they can think of at you and usually multiple counts of the same offense..

add those charges up and usually you are looking at 20-100 years in prison.. now, a federal prosecutor offers up a deal, plead guilty and do 3-5 or roll the dice..

any attorney worth his weight is going to tell you the risks of going to trial.. you can lose and if you lose, you can forget about getting offered a deal again..

so thats the short answer...

[tony286]

The funny thing is the biggest win this industry has had was 2257 being throw out in that one district wasn't by one adult lawyers we hear and read about all the time.

[AaronM]

Originally Posted by marketsmart

yawn.... ok here's the short answer... when you get hit on federal cases, they throw any charge they can think of at you and usually multiple counts of the same offense..

add those charges up and usually you are looking at 20-100 years in prison.. now, a federal prosecutor offers up a deal, plead guilty and do 3-5 or roll the dice..

any attorney worth his weight is going to tell you the risks of going to trial.. you can lose and if you lose, you can forget about getting offered a deal again..

so thats the short answer...

I don't recall asking any questions.

[Pleasurepays]

Originally Posted by AaronM

I don't recall asking any questions.

[marketsmart]

Originally Posted by AaronM

I don't recall asking any questions.

glad to help set things straight then.. and i except your apology...

[WiredGuy]

What type of cases are we talking here, obsenity, criminal, civil?
WG

[sortie]

Where is the proof that the attorney didn't actually save their asses from certain convictions with stiffer penalties?

I mean, if they were going into the case with some skeleton that was mildly related it might blind the jury enough to convict without evidence. That then sets a precedent to other courts that they can convict on that amount of evidence. In other words, their guilty pleas might actually be saving everyone else's ass.

But, I don't know those facts. I'm just saying that the facts are not clear from this post.

[Domain Diva]

Originally Posted by AaronM

If you really cared then you would already know the answer to that.

Of course l dont care im happy with my attorney,it was you who made the post and mentioned it maybe a concern to the industry now others have to go look up the name l guess


Just post it or icq me if you dont have the balls and let a girl do it for you.


Its annoying when posters go I know a scammer but I will not name them ,I got a bounced check and im owed 6 months income but l dont want to say who it is.

Help the industry dont worry, posting a lawyer thats lost cases will not get you in trouble if its the truth so name them or icq me maybe if this industry starts to work and share info it might help you all.


Im actually starting to think the unthinkable and think Dirty F maybe my hero gawddddddddd

[Spike D]

Although the trends of late have been decidely negative, there are a couple rays of hope. The Maxhardcore case will most likely be overturned on appeal, and in the Ray Guhn case, unless I am looking at the wrong info, they never pleaded guilty to obscenity. He pled to a single count of participating in an unlawful financial transaction - money laundering. The DA will count that for a win against "obscenity" but any future legal precedent would not be helpful in another obscenity case. But the success rate is of late should be a concern to everyone..

The lawyers names are easily found as AM said..

I only play a lawyer on message boards...

[bringer]

Originally Posted by DamageX

What if they were guilty?

why does that matter? the concerns expressed in this thread are less about the individual clients who plead guilty and more about how it affects everyone else. its their fault precedence now exists that can be used against us all because they were unwilling to fund a lengthy court battle against a corrupt government with limitless resources. instead of pleading guilty, which most posting in this thread would have done, those assholes should of sold everything they own to help OUR cause. right?

Originally Posted by tony404

An example I met with a adult attorney, he told me if you are my client and shit happens. I will defend you, we will figure out the money. I wont leave you hanging. So with him I would owe him for the rest of my life but he would defend me.Where someone else could say I need every dime upfront or I go no further pleading guilty is your best bet. Now in both of the cases its their right but a attorney is judged by his track record.

I quote the movie the verdict "We aren't paid to do our best, we are paid to win."

as i said in a previous post, ive dealt with a lawyer who obviously wasnt qualified to represent me but still wanted my money to plea. i found someone else who could do the job and it was done right. why not blame the clients for accepting this lawyers advice instead of getting a second opinion? or a 5th? 10th? i know if i were in the position these people were in id call every lawyer i could find until i found the one that was qualified to HELP ME protect MY RIGHTS.

[Spike D]

Originally Posted by Promo Claire

Of course l dont care im happy with my attorney,it was you who made the post and mentioned it maybe a concern to the industry now others have to go look up the name l guess


Just post it or icq me if you dont have the balls and let a girl do it for you.

I think his point was that anyone with a true concern with this issue would already know who the lawyers were....

[tony286]

Originally Posted by bringer

why does that matter? the concerns expressed in this thread are less about the individual clients who plead guilty and more about how it affects everyone else. its their fault precedence now exists that can be used against us all because they were unwilling to fund a lengthy court battle against a corrupt government with limitless resources. instead of pleading guilty, which most posting in this thread would have done, those assholes should of sold everything they own to help OUR cause. right?



as i said in a previous post, ive dealt with a lawyer who obviously wasnt qualified to represent me but still wanted my money to plea. i found someone else who could do the job and it was done right. why not blame the clients for accepting this lawyers advice instead of getting a second opinion? or a 5th? 10th? i know if i were in the position these people were in id call every lawyer i could find until i found the one that was qualified to HELP ME protect MY RIGHTS.

You have a good point.

[Domain Diva]

Originally Posted by Spike D

I think his point was that anyone with a true concern with this issue would already know who the lawyers were....

yes I agree Spike but to save those who are just reading and having to do the research why dont people just give the whole picture including names (its the names that I find lacking)

Im not really picking on Aaron it just seems a gfy trend in general.


Urgent Release ;

A major player has not paid me for 6 months do a search on gfy and im sure you will get the idea of who it is?

Im not asking for people to just throw names out at random for every little instance as that can lead to possible lawsuits but at times I see established posters with major issues afraid to name names and that trend is unhealthy and of no benefit to the industry.


Guess now I will go look up the name just in case I may think of using them in the future as a second law firm as the info wasnt in this thread

[pocketkangaroo]

It certainly sets a bad precedent. I would think a lawyer advertising himself as a champion of the first amendment would not be so keen on taking cases that are going to be pleaded out. I of course am not in the shoes of the people who are being tried, so it's hard to say that they should let them play out. The pleas may have honestly been in the best interest of the client.

But if I was arrested for obscenity, I'm going to try and hire a guy who has actually won cases.

[Domain Diva]

I see Max Hardcore had Attorney Jeffrey Douglas or so it seems is this the guy ?

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Promo Claire

yes I agree Spike but to save those who are just reading and having to do the research why dont people just give the whole picture including names (its the names that I find lacking)

Im not really picking on Aaron it just seems a gfy trend in general.


Urgent Release ;

A major player has not paid me for 6 months do a search on gfy and im sure you will get the idea of who it is?

Im not asking for people to just throw names out at random for every little instance as that can lead to possible lawsuits but at times I see established posters with major issues afraid to name names and that trend is unhealthy and of no benefit to the industry.


Guess now I will go look up the name just in case I may think of using them in the future as a second law firm as the info wasnt in this thread

Honestly it takes a couple minutes to Google and read up about all this. If you don't know who he is talking about, you don't follow the industry that closely. I don't see why he should have to spend the time educating everyone on the board about who the attorney is. Anyone in his position (content producer) knows who it is and has much more at stake.

[pussyserver - BANNED FOR LIFE]

you should be concerned



His concern is valid and exact

I wish I could comment more but this fuckin place is full of loonies and its hard to help anyone with them around

[Domain Diva]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

Honestly it takes a couple minutes to Google and read up about all this. If you don't know who he is talking about, you don't follow the industry that closely. I don't see why he should have to spend the time educating everyone on the board about who the attorney is. Anyone in his position (content producer) knows who it is and has much more at stake.

Thats the thing most read the headline do you know who Paris Hiltons lawyer was in her case ? No and most people dont.

Im just commenting if would be healthy if when a possible important industry post is made maybe all the info was in that post including the name its not time consuming it takes a few keystrokes more

[DamageX]

Originally Posted by Promo Claire

Im just commenting if would be healthy if when a possible important industry post is made maybe all the info was in that post including the name its not time consuming it takes a few keystrokes more

Hun, please learn how to use punctuation. I read and re-read your post and I still have no fucking clue what you just said.

[Domain Diva]

ok so I guess maybe Max Hardcore wasnt high profile enough.

So now I have Lawrence G. Walters is that the guy ? well he represented Ray Guhn???


see how not naming names causes confusion I thought Max,s case was high profile


So have I hit the right name ?


Ps Im not joking on this subject

[Domain Diva]

Originally Posted by DamageX

Hun, please learn how to use punctuation. I read and re-read your post and I still have no fucking clue what you just said.

DamageX
if you really think im going to all the effort for you and put paragraphs,commas etc you have no chance unless you booking my nude cleaning services or promo girls

[pocketkangaroo]

Originally Posted by Promo Claire

ok so I guess maybe Max Hardcore wasnt high profile enough.

So now I have Lawrence G. Walters is that the guy ? well he represented Ray Guhn???


see how not naming names causes confusion I thought Max,s case was high profile


So have I hit the right name ?


Ps Im not joking on this subject

This thread is about pleading guilty, not being found guilty. Max was the latter.

[Domain Diva]

thanks for pointing that out pocketkangaroo


But I still think a name avoids confusion as its totally unfair on a biz when you have to guess and you make the wrong choice for something they havent done.

I ve looked and googled and all I come up with is Lawrence G. Walters now if thats not correct it be a big injustice to them

[Domain Diva]

arrrrr its all gone quiet so is it Lawrence G. Walters dont panic because l mentioned a name just say yes or icq me and I will post it.

Lawyers are very expensive lets all find out who are the best ones and help the industry

let them sue me not you..... let me be your lemming that gets to fall over the cliff

[siccmade]

Originally Posted by Promo Claire

thanks for pointing that out pocketkangaroo


But I still think a name avoids confusion as its totally unfair on a biz when you have to guess and you make the wrong choice for something they havent done.

I ve looked and googled and all I come up with is Lawrence G. Walters now if thats not correct it be a big injustice to them

Would you quit your fucking crying already.

[Domain Diva]

Originally Posted by siccmade

Would you quit your fucking crying already.

What are you on about siccmade go have another beer

[crockett]

Originally Posted by AaronM

I don't recall asking any questions.

Do you not recal the title you choose for this topic?

Could this become a serious adult industry legal concern?

[quesadilla]

Originally Posted by Promo Claire

Of course l dont care im happy with my attorney,it was you who made the post and mentioned it maybe a concern to the industry now others have to go look up the name l guess


Just post it or icq me if you dont have the balls and let a girl do it for you.


Its annoying when posters go I know a scammer but I will not name them ,I got a bounced check and im owed 6 months income but l dont want to say who it is.

Help the industry dont worry, posting a lawyer thats lost cases will not get you in trouble if its the truth so name them or icq me maybe if this industry starts to work and share info it might help you all.


Im actually starting to think the unthinkable and think Dirty F maybe my hero gawddddddddd

shut your trap you brainless bimbo.
you have already shown how unknowledgeable you are at everthing.
for christ sake just accept that you wear tshirts and try to act smart.
you should be talking about legal shit about as much as some 400 lb
fucker should be talking about personal training. fuck off already.

[directfiesta]

Originally Posted by tony404

My big thought is why do people keep hiring this person?

Because he can negotiate a good plea bargain

[tical]

Originally Posted by pocketkangaroo

It certainly sets a bad precedent. I would think a lawyer advertising himself as a champion of the first amendment would not be so keen on taking cases that are going to be pleaded out. I of course am not in the shoes of the people who are being tried, so it's hard to say that they should let them play out. The pleas may have honestly been in the best interest of the client.

But if I was arrested for obscenity, I'm going to try and hire a guy who has actually won cases.

federal cases are NOT like standard state cases

if you take a federal case to trial and LOSE you will get stuck with everything the prosecutor can throw at you & the courts don't look kindly on you wasting their time (you are guilty after all)

this is why 95% of federal indictments end up in a plea of some sort

fed time is 85%, mandatory minimums & guidelines fuck a lot of people over (ie, 10 years MINIMUM for like 1 gram of crack)...

they scare people into convictions & pleas

i'd rather take 5 years than try to take a stand for the adult industry, spend thousands of dollars (fed attorneys & trials cost like 3-4x as much as state), and risk a shitload of time for multiple obscenity & money laundering convictions... its fucked up


take a look at this: http://www.famm.org/ExploreSentencin...Injustice.aspx

just because you feel you're not guilty are you willing to take that chance? the feds don't indict like the standard cop can arrest you... a grand jury decides if the evidence against a specific party is significant enough to proceed with charges