Originally Posted by AnniKN

Mainstream DVDs and CDs sell for a couple of reasons now: because people who want to be in said industries or belong to it, buy them (but it doesn't happen with porn, we want everything free, we can get it for free after all...) or because the person REALLY loves the director, or an actor or a singer and wants to do "the right thing" or "give them a gift", because yes, there is people who don't even know it's all stolen stuff... "it's as if i borrowed it from a friend"

Originally Posted by slapass

I know alexa is not that great but how long can we pretend this is not happening?

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/tr...zydream.com?q=

Originally Posted by teomaxxx

in the past years, i bought something like one membership a year, despite being webmaster and having a lot of access to entire sites.

I am not buying anymore, just go to tube. and I am not alone on GFY, who stop to buy memeberships, from what I have read here.

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

I don't see anything getting cleaned up, unless some decide to retire.

Surfers educated themselves, it took only to fuck the old ones around a couple times, wait till the new generation comes that knows how to deal with the internet, and now they're so educated they don't even pay!

Originally Posted by Atticus

Thats ridiculous. People who go to Best Buy to buy a DVD are not buying it because they want to be in the industry. They are buying the DVD because they want to watch it repeatedly, want to watch it now, impulse, dont want to bother with searching and downloading it. They are also not buying it because they want to donate to Tom Cruise or Universal. lol

Originally Posted by AnniKN

I am talking about the people who know how to download illegally, and are able to do so but still decide to buy a DVD. Mainstream equivalent of the people who know about tubes but still prefer to buy a subscription. And YES, there is people who want to see a movie repeatedly and download it instead and would've bought it if torrents didn't exist. Netflix isn't available worldwide etc.

My point is: the people who know how to get something for free but still decide to pay have other motives that make they want to pay for it, because there is no NEED to pay for it anymore, and it's beyond just wanting to watch THAT. Talking specifically from what I've seen in the aspiring filmmakers groups, they know how to get things for free, they're broke, but if they loved some Indonesian movie that is an import DVD and costs 45 USD, they'll eat beans for a week even if they could have just downloaded it slowly throughout said week from pirate bay.

Thinking that there is not THAT much people downloading movies is naive and stupid, over 1 million people downloaded Disaster Movie, and it's the shittiest thing ever made apparently.

Originally Posted by Atticus

Thats ridiculous. People who go to Best Buy to buy a DVD are not buying it because they want to be in the industry. They are buying the DVD because they want to watch it repeatedly, want to watch it now, impulse, dont want to bother with searching and downloading it. They are also not buying it because they want to donate to Tom Cruise or Universal. lol

Originally Posted by Atticus

Thats ridiculous. People who go to Best Buy to buy a DVD are not buying it because they want to be in the industry. They are buying the DVD because they want to watch it repeatedly, want to watch it now, impulse, dont want to bother with searching and downloading it. They are also not buying it because they want to donate to Tom Cruise or Universal. lol

The vast majority of people are not downloading movies and the ones that do, wouldnt be buying that movie in the first place. The reason why mainstream DVD sales are down is because of the ease associated with dvd rental places such as NetFlix and RedBox and the ease of cable on demand. In this economy why bother purchasing a DVD you will watch once when its super easy to throw it on your NetFlix, watch it and send it back and get the next one. It's the same reason why family friendly DVD's are selling better than ever. Kids watch movies over and over and over...and over. It's worth paying the $20 to buy a DVD that will be watched 100 + times.

As with most things in life, dont try and overthink it. Its common sense.

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

the 70% of webmaters who went back into McDonald's won't be able to reply to this thread anymore though

Originally Posted by AnniKN

Main problem with this industry is its hypocrisy and self-destructive behaviour -being shortsighted, lying to the surfer, running credit cards and all sorts of things... the surfer never developed a liking for the industry, they could love a single website's content, but having to pay for it was an inconvenience as oppossed to something you wanted to do because it was both worth it and because you wanted the people who are running this awesome site to get something back for fulfilling your needs.

THAT's what makes tubes and forums and torrents popular, the surfer does not realize that they are being used to sell them something that is even more of a lie than a site that says it updates weekly and has 8 sets from 2003, because they're playing with people's feelings (OMG I'll finally have a girlfriend!): they SINCERELY think that the person who started the site is just a nice guy! he makes money from advertisements, but that's normal... it's like celebrity fansites, they're just doing it because they're nice guys... it's great that they're successful because they worked hard just to help people out! Just like myspace and facebook and youtube.

Why do you think some people have no problem in donating monthly to forums and buying rapidshare accounts? I bet if tubes had DONATE buttons they'd make bank too, even more than with the Premium mode. The surfer feels admiration and gratitude for these forums and sites, most paysites were never deserving of admiration or gratitude.

Mainstream DVDs and CDs sell for a couple of reasons now: because people who want to be in said industries or belong to it, buy them (but it doesn't happen with porn, we want everything free, we can get it for free after all...) or because the person REALLY loves the director, or an actor or a singer and wants to do "the right thing" or "give them a gift", because yes, there is people who don't even know it's all stolen stuff... "it's as if i borrowed it from a friend"

The way I see it, the industry needs a major clean up, and we need to educate the surfer - will it work? fuck if I know, but I do know that the sites that still get rebills and memberships are the ones that provide the surfer with something unique and that they find pleasant, and there is a reason for that.

Originally Posted by AnniKN

EDIT: Another problem a lot of webmasters seem to have is that they have never actually been surfers/freeloaders or porn buyers themselves. While that's not necessarily good, it helps figure out what they want ;)

Originally Posted by AnniKN

1. I agree
2. I agree I didn't mean everyone, I said "a lot of"
3. I seriously agree
4. It's the new generation that is the problem mainly, but while the old generation don't know how to use torrents etc, they do know how to use youtube, my 65 year old aunt does, and there is soft niche stuff there - and when you google for porn you get a "porn youtube"

Originally Posted by Elli

LAMike, now that's just depressing. You're saying we've hit market maturity for home computing and internet access, I guess. Hm.

This is where someone will pipe up and say, "But China and India are getting online everyday!"

I'm not sure if the average porn site will appeal to China and India, though..

Originally Posted by LA Mike

Surfers have much much more to do these days. There is so many community sites that keep people busy. Someone who might have spent 2 hours each night surfing porn will now jerk off to his old collection for 10 min and spend the other hour and 50min surfing twitter, youtube, myspace, facebook, and many others.

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I've heard this argument but I don't believe it. If it was true the tube sites would be shrinking, not growing. A good video on the first page of tube8 can get nearly a million views in a day. Some of these tube sites get more traffic then CNN.com.

People are watching MORE PORN than at any other time in the history of Earth. Women are even starting to watch porn out of curiosity. They are just not paying for it. But people are watching more porn than ever before, that is a fact.

What I do know is tube sites are doing more and more reposts and the surfers realize it. If you follow tube sites and the user comments, you will see them complain when there is a repost. Point is, if legit webmasters started locking down their content the tube sites would slowly dry up from a lack of content. The surfer would get tired of the lack of new content and would slowly start to search out porn again.

It really is that easy.

Originally Posted by Templar

What's the culprit? I'm not so quick to dismiss the economy since it seems to be more than coincidence that it all hit at the same time. The danger could be that surfers will change their patterns permanently because of it. Another culprit, at least in some of the specialized nichemarkets I service, is the uploading of videos to peer to peer networking sites. Some webmasters make less, more specialized videos and if you can download them by the dozen off of *****, well how long is that webmaster going to last?

I'm going to stay put hoping that a turn around in the economy will make a difference, if it doesn't then I'll probably be going back to computer repair.

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

I've heard this argument but I don't believe it. If it was true the tube sites would be shrinking, not growing. .

Originally Posted by MrLuvr

Check out the Alexa for Redtube.com. It hit a peak last year, and has been going down ever since. I did an alexa on a popular torrent site, same thing. Actually it's Alexa stats look a lot worse than many paysites. Free porn is not the culprit. Crappy porn is. People are tired of jerking off to the same 20 or 30 girls that pop up on every paysite doing the same damn thing. There is nothing new. If you are promoting the same paysite that is being promoted by every damn webmaster and his dog, don't complain when your sales suck.

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

What I do know is tube sites are doing more and more reposts and the surfers realize it. If you follow tube sites and the user comments, you will see them complain when there is a repost. Point is, if legit webmasters started locking down their content the tube sites would slowly dry up from a lack of content. The surfer would get tired of the lack of new content and would slowly start to search out porn again.

It really is that easy.

Originally Posted by MrLuvr

Check out the Alexa for Redtube.com. It hit a peak last year, and has been going down ever since. I did an alexa on a popular torrent site, same thing. Actually it's Alexa stats look a lot worse than many paysites. Free porn is not the culprit. Crappy porn is. People are tired of jerking off to the same 20 or 30 girls that pop up on every paysite doing the same damn thing. There is nothing new. If you are promoting the same paysite that is being promoted by every damn webmaster and his dog, don't complain when your sales suck.

Originally Posted by maxjohan

It's quite stable on this graph, it's in the 50s and I have a feeling the flucations are huge on these levels. That's why I think it's going down and up.

Before tubes I remember seeing The hun being in the 200s, there are three tube sites in the 50s of Alexa, grabbing a lot of adult traffic pie.

And the hun were at around 3 million visitors at it's peak.

If not this year, tgps will die in the next couple years.

Seems like an image error, here is RedTube chart:
http://www.imagecross.com/02/image-h...746redtube.jpg

Originally Posted by MrLuvr

That chart is for rank, if you do it for Reach and Page Views they are both trending down, quite a bit.

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

The bottom line is, conversion ratios are worsening because overall net porn sales are declining year over year for the entire industry. Notice I did not say overall traffic is declining, just sales. There are less sales out there to be had, so the trick is to compensate by driving more traffic.

Originally Posted by joshgirls

the traffic graphs are being overanalyzed to death. Its the economy stupid. Everything is shitting the bed except mcdonalds & walmart. It is logical that the free porn traffic is growing & pay traffic is shrinking. When the buyers return the free porn will make the buyers selective, so your best bet is selling niche or brand building.

Duh.

Originally Posted by MrLuvr

I am just thinking maybe people are just sick of the same type of porn being produced over and over? Look at Realitykings and all these types of sites, it is the same girls having sex with the same guys over and over. The new stuff that is coming out is the same at the old stuff. Are people suffering from porn overload?

Originally Posted by halfpint

The surfers of today are pretty well educated in using the net. What worked 5-8 years ago would most prob not work as well today. We forget that the surfers of today are bought up with the net and very quickly learn how not to pay for porn.
Hell my 18 year old son knows more about social networking, using proxies, getting free music, than what I do.ect.. They learn it from friends.
I had a very hard job trying to convince him that downloading "free music" would get him in trouble, It was the norm for him and all of his buddies, You go look on social networks and see how many people are giving links to "free" movies, music, ect amongest their friends. Trouble is we all still think as a webmaster does, We put up a porn site, which is similar to many other porn sites then expect surfers to pay for accessing it.
Why would the younger generation pay when they know where to get free porn from. My way of thinking is to somehow make the paysites as interactive as possible or as social as possible.
Honestly if you were a just a surfer..would you pay for access to a general porn site? It would have to be pretty spectacular and well priced unless you cater for a specific niche which is not over saturated

Originally Posted by Templar

I've suffered a HUGE drop in sales since August and I've had more than a couple webmasters email me with "Did they turn they internet off?" Seriously, one guy had a friend buy a subscription from another state just to see if his site was still alive.

What's the culprit? I'm not so quick to dismiss the economy since it seems to be more than coincidence that it all hit at the same time. The danger could be that surfers will change their patterns permanently because of it. Another culprit, at least in some of the specialized nichemarkets I service, is the uploading of videos to peer to peer networking sites. Some webmasters make less, more specialized videos and if you can download them by the dozen off of *****, well how long is that webmaster going to last?

I'm going to stay put hoping that a turn around in the economy will make a difference, if it doesn't then I'll probably be going back to computer repair.

Originally Posted by Waiter

I don't want to waste your time , just letting you know that I still didn't recieve the payments ...

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

Might be till it was rare and scarce, it was exciting - like you get excited renting a porn dvd every two weeks or visiting your fav paysite time from time, but if you can watch a shit load of it every day - it gets odd.

Originally Posted by LA Mike

For years we would break our sales records every January. Because so many people would get their first computers and eventually find our sites.

Originally Posted by LA Mike

You guys have hit some great points. But what I think you are forgetting to mention is that it's not just the influx of free porn, it's not just tubes, and companies banging 8 charges on one signup.

Surfers have much much more to do these days. There is so many community sites that keep people busy. Someone who might have spent 2 hours each night surfing porn will now jerk off to his old collection for 10 min and spend the other hour and 50min surfing twitter, youtube, myspace, facebook, and many others.

There is so many other options on the net these days. 8-12 years ago the net WAS porn. So many people came here to get porn. Think about the options before the net. You had to find a video store that had an adult section. You then had to stand in line with your video in hand while your neighbor and her kids stood behind you. Either that or you could take your chances with magazine at the local liquor store. Maybe rent a video from your TV.

The net made porn accessible for the average person. So many people have interest in porn. But only a small percentage would actually have the nerve to go rent a video. The net gave everyone discreet ways to view porn.

For years we would break our sales records every January. Because so many people would get their first computers and eventually find our sites. Now people are born with computers in their households. They grow up with them. They join all sorts of communities. There is just so many more options of things to do on the net now.

Originally Posted by Atticus

It's not the economy. In fact the horrible economy should actually be helping sales. In distressed times consumers look for cheap releases. Look no further than Hollywood. Paul Blart Mall Cop made $100 million plus for gods sake. Theater business is way up over this time last year before the economy tanked. People will spend money on porn if they want. They dont start looking for porn online, see something they like and decide they wont purchase based on how bad the worldwide economy is. It's impulse and as long as they have $40 in their accounts they'll make the purchase.

It has to do with a combination of free porn and the mass amount of SHITTY PORN YOU ARE TRYING TO SELL!!

It's always been shitty but in the past surfers were willing to look past it and buy anyway because they didnt have options. Now that shitty porn is available for the price its worth on tubes: FREE. And you cant blame tubes, they realize that by taking all this shitty porn they can build traffic empires that they can use to sell other items besides shitty porn.

Back in the day you actually had to have some sort of star quality, sets, production..something. Then the internet and gonzo came along and every dipshit with an HD camera and a horny ugly girlfriend decided he could be a content producer. Then normal content producers started to get cheap to compete and now you have bad porn filled with Eastern Euro skanks.

The money was great for affiliates because you didnt have to have any skill because the customer had nowhere else to turn. Now as with any industry that has started a maturity process and you actually have to work to make money. And by working I mean making higher quality content, distributing that content in a more effective manner and giving the customer a reason to actually purchase something. Again common sense.