The traffic pool has changed forever- would you agree? - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

MrDeiz · 03-28-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Also keep in mind that Alexa changed how they do their rankings some time last year.

So you will see a lot of sites with some dramatic changes. I can't remember the time period when it happened, but I know it was in 2008 where they devalued something, and adjusted their traffic rating system accordingly.

They had discussed this to some degree on WMR.

it didn't affect any ratings. dramatic changes were only on the day of implementing of those new algorithms, but then things got back to normal.

bloggerz · 03-28-2009, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVF

When you first got your cable installed, you needed to look at the guide all the time so that you could learn the channels and the schedules.....Once you learned them, you don't use the guide as much because you:

1. Know your favorite channels (bookmarks)
2. Already know the schedules
3. Already know what content you like on said channel..
4. Have their DVR's set, which means less commercials watched

Doesn't mean that people aren't still watching tv, they just need the tv guide less and less these days.

quoted for the truth

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-28-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james_clickmemedia

How people search for porn has changed. it's now all social networking & u tube type sites that attract the surfers. They bookmark these sites because they give away so much for free. After a while though these same surfers do test out the links to the paysites however no where near as much as they used to.

With mgp everything was free however you only got a small poor quality sample and 8 of the 10 times you would click on a link you would get traded to another mpg or free site so they surfer go upset and joined a paysite because the quality was better and they did not get jerked around..

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Because a lot of us are geeks, we don't realize how big of a deal a tube site is. Torrents have more stuff etc but most people can't and won't use them but a tube is easy. Your 50 year old American with a wallet full of CC's no longer needs to pay and that is what is hurting us.

I do like the idea of policing the content. If tubes got stale it would help a lot.

Very true, free porn is more accessible than ever and the tease and pay model is practically gone.

MrDeiz · 03-28-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

Internet law is a real complex thing, I have some minor experience as a fake lawyer as this is something I used to work in a couple years ago and I actually enjoyed it greatly and I still enjoy reading contracts (which is a rather useful hobby in my case) or all those legal columns in various magazines.

The question is - what do we want?

More control over the internet?

Less control over the internet?

There are a few now, that are benefiting from the chaos and fucking anyone who's playing "by the rules" in the ass and many are then "hurting" and screaming for regulation.

But the flip side of the coin is, what will happen if there will be more regulation?

Do we want to get to the same state as in Germany?

Where even if you play by their "rules" if they (be it whoever, state, government, someone who knows them) decide to shut you down, they'll almost certainly be able to shut you down?

My solution, in principle, would be to organize a crusade and push hard on anyone who's offering services to those motherfuckers.

But then again? Who has the balls, who has the morals, who has the dedication to do this?

Who will not want to burn the bridges if he would want to join the dark side someday?

StarkReality · 03-28-2009, 04:54 PM

The sad fact seems to be that the indusrty is totally unable to regulate itself, since it's not really one industry. It's just a bunch of people trying to get the maximum for themselves regardless of how much they ruin the business for all others. Ironically, their piece of the cake gets smaller, too, since the cake itself is becoming smaller every day.

So, yes, it looks like we need government regulation like in other countries. More irony, it looks like those who hate and fight adult could be the ones saving us from the total meltdown.

Roald · 03-28-2009, 04:57 PM

nice thread sofar!!

MrDeiz · 03-28-2009, 05:03 PM

one significant thing...
i'm not complaining, i'm just saying...

we have checked signbucksdaily.com outgoing ips with some programs and found that most of webmasters (80-90% and of course big fish) drop our ref id (in many ways, i can only guess, though it's not hard to find out)...

so what we can expect from all in business if even 'legit' webmasters have no ethics...

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 03-28-2009, 05:41 PM

When you see sites like Redtube, Pornhub, PornBB, PlanetSuzy, and massive media sharing torrent sites pulling into the millions of daily viewers, I think it's pretty obvious where that traffic is going, don't you? These sites have massive authority with the search engines, and dedicated user followings. Searching almost any adult term will turn one or more of these sites up with very high rankings in the SERPs. On top of that there are thousands and thousands of freehosted surfer ran sharing blogs, smaller forums, yahoo groups, etc etc.

Nobody wants to pay for this shit anymore. It's common knowledge you can find most digital content for free somewhere. Why pay for it? If I had a giant field of fresh fruit and veggies growing right out my backdoor, I wouldn't be going to the grocery store to buy produce. It's a changing landscape, and if someone wants to survive, well maybe they should look at finding a way to profit from that giant crop of readily available veggies.

What I see is content owners beginning to use this to their advantage. Starting their own tubes regaining their lost traffic and finding new ways to capitalize on it.. Take PornHub and their "Premium" memberships for example. I think the the tubesite model being merged with the paysite model is the wave of the future. Those who are cultivating this field right now, are the ones who are going to survive.

What this is doing bringing the traffic back in house for the content owners and networks. It's cutting out the middle man in order to maintain a profit margin, and while everyone in the industry is taking a loss, in the end it is going to be the average affiliate who dies out. Unless you've harnessed a massive traffic flow, you're not going to make it, and I can see the top dog affiliates doing the smart thing and buying their content to keep all their profits in house too. The average surfer has been conditioned to not trust the paysite model by all sorts of shady practices like cross sales, difficult canceling of recurring memberships and so on. They have grown to trust the tube model, and I'm sure will grow to trust even it's paid options more so than shelling over $30/month for a membership site...

It's my opinion that the adult affiliate is going to become a thing of the past more and more so over the next few years. What I see for the future is more mega tube-styled sites with their own licensed content, maintaining their own user bases and capitalizing on their own premium memberships. In order to maintain profitability the networks are going to have to work the middleman affiliate out of the equation, and I believe that they are making it happen now. Smart business by those who are leading the pack at the moment...

polish_aristocrat · 03-28-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

When you see sites like Redtube, Pornhub, PornBB, PlanetSuzy, and massive media sharing torrent sites pulling into the millions of daily viewers, I think it's pretty obvious where that traffic is going, don't you? These sites have massive authority with the search engines, and dedicated user followings. Searching almost any adult term will turn one or more of these sites up with very high rankings in the SERPs. On top of that there are thousands and thousands of freehosted surfer ran sharing blogs, smaller forums, yahoo groups, etc etc.

Nobody wants to pay for this shit anymore. It's common knowledge you can find most digital content for free somewhere. Why pay for it? If I had a giant field of fresh fruit and veggies growing right out my backdoor, I wouldn't be going to the grocery store to buy produce. It's a changing landscape, and if someone wants to survive, well maybe they should look at finding a way to profit from that giant crop of readily available veggies.

What I see is content owners beginning to use this to their advantage. Starting their own tubes regaining their lost traffic and finding new ways to capitalize on it.. Take PornHub and their "Premium" memberships for example. I think the the tubesite model being merged with the paysite model is the wave of the future. Those who are cultivating this field right now, are the ones who are going to survive.

What this is doing bringing the traffic back in house for the content owners and networks. It's cutting out the middle man in order to maintain a profit margin, and while everyone in the industry is taking a loss, in the end it is going to be the average affiliate who dies out. Unless you've harnessed a massive traffic flow, you're not going to make it, and I can see the top dog affiliates doing the smart thing and buying their content to keep all their profits in house too. The average surfer has been conditioned to not trust the paysite model by all sorts of shady practices like cross sales, difficult canceling of recurring memberships and so on. They have grown to trust the tube model, and I'm sure will grow to trust even it's paid options more so than shelling over $30/month for a membership site...

It's my opinion that the adult affiliate is going to become a thing of the past more and more so over the next few years. What I see for the future is more mega tube-styled sites with their own licensed content, maintaining their own user bases and capitalizing on their own premium memberships. In order to maintain profitability the networks are going to have to work the middleman affiliate out of the equation, and I believe that they are making it happen now. Smart business by those who are leading the pack at the moment...

awesome post

Relentless · 03-28-2009, 05:57 PM

Sites need to offer things that are NOT available on tubes. Unique new content and fresh niche ideas, interesting games and alternative entertainment, interactivity....

I've reviewed more than 3,000 different paysites (some more than a few times - for several different review sites). Of those 3,000+ I'd say less than 500 offered anything truly unique or different from the rest.

If you are interested in seeing what I am talking about, contact me on ICQ# 266942896. I have an exclusive high quality affiliate program with truly unique and different sites. The affiliate program is by invite only... to keep it less saturated. I'll also be at phoenix forum for anyone who wants to discuss this further...

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 03-28-2009, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relentless

Sites need to offer things that are NOT available on tubes. Unique new content and fresh niche ideas, interesting games and alternative entertainment, interactivity....

I've reviewed more than 3,000 different paysites (some more than a few times - for several different review sites). Of those 3,000+ I'd say less than 500 offered anything truly unique or different from the rest.

If you are interested in seeing what I am talking about, contact me on ICQ# 266942896. I have an exclusive high quality affiliate program with truly unique and different sites. The affiliate program is by invite only... to keep it less saturated. I'll also be at phoenix forum for anyone who wants to discuss this further...

I'm curious to see what you're talking about. In all honesty, I probably won't promote it, I've gone on to dedicate all my energy to mainstream. Reading my above post should explain my reasoning. But all the same i'm curious. I won't bother bullshitting you and saying I expect to make you sales, but hey, if you got a couple spare minutes and don't mind entertaining a jew cat's curiosity for a moment, I would give it a once over and see if you can't change my mind. If you're concerned about your ideas leaking I an assure you I'm not one to run my mouth on about other people's business. Drop me a line on ICQ if you're down.

Relentless · 03-28-2009, 06:33 PM

Nice chatting with you AJC

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 03-28-2009, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relentless

Nice chatting with you AJC

Likewise.

As for anyone else who might be interested. I just checked out Relentless's sites. He's definitely working in the right direction as far as reworking the membership model. As an affiliate working with revshare sales, these are the type of sites that will retain membership and keep a user active within the site, outside of say the 8 minutes it might take them to bust a nut over some video. I agree with him on the points he's made. You gotta offer something that either a) hasn't been done, b) provides the user with interaction outside of just jerking their meat, or c) offers both.

Regardless of what people continue to work with in adult, it's going to take some serious adaptation. Relentless offers clean sites, which don't screw or mislead the members, give the members incentive to stick around, and generally I think should do well for anyone who likes those recurring sales. If I were still promoting adult actively as an affiliate, this is the sort of network I'd be looking at working with.

SpicyM · 03-28-2009, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teomaxxx

I am not buying anymore, just go to tube. and I am not alone on GFY, who stop to buy memeberships, from what I have read here.

If I wanted good quality porn in my favourite niches, TUBEs would be the last thing where I would search for it. I cant watch the boring videos TUBE sites offer and I never surf them personally.. who still really enjoys "hardcore pornstar fucking" in shitty quality?? I want high definition movies, clear not blurry, quality niche and ability to download it. I would still join several paysites I know if I had the time and money for it, just because I love the rare content.

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 03-28-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

If I wanted good quality porn in my favourite niches, TUBEs would be the last thing where I would search for it. I cant watch the boring videos TUBE sites offer and I never surf them personally.. who still really enjoys "hardcore pornstar fucking" in shitty quality?? I want high definition movies, clear not blurry, quality niche and ability to download it. I would still join several paysites I know if I had the time and money for it, just because I love the rare content.

My premium RapidShare account costs me like $7/month

Very little escapes an well execute google search...

Editted to remove great google search term, heh...

SpicyM · 03-28-2009, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkReality

The sad fact seems to be that the indusrty is totally unable to regulate itself, since it's not really one industry. It's just a bunch of people trying to get the maximum for themselves regardless of how much they ruin the business for all others. Ironically, their piece of the cake gets smaller, too, since the cake itself is becoming smaller every day.

So, yes, it looks like we need government regulation like in other countries. More irony, it looks like those who hate and fight adult could be the ones saving us from the total meltdown.

So true.. they keep saying conservatives are not good for porn, they try to force restrictions etc. I believe they are those that can actually save our business.. restrictions and radical laws to kick out the fuckers and ruin their huge uncontrolled websites.

Remember the saying: "Forbidden fruit tastes the sweetes" ..the more restrictions, the less free porn online

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-28-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarkReality

So, yes, it looks like we need government regulation like in other countries. More irony, it looks like those who hate and fight adult could be the ones saving us from the total meltdown.

Maybe you should register with the government and pass the IQ test first, if you want to be a smut peddler!

But sure, irony indeed.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-28-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

It's my opinion that the adult affiliate is going to become a thing of the past more and more so over the next few years. What I see for the future is more mega tube-styled sites with their own licensed content, maintaining their own user bases and capitalizing on their own premium memberships. In order to maintain profitability the networks are going to have to work the middleman affiliate out of the equation, and I believe that they are making it happen now. Smart business by those who are leading the pack at the moment...

I wouldn't agree with the word "smart", it's more like "neccessary" and sometimes even "desperate" effort to regain the numbers.

Adult will never reach its potential again, the surfer gets more for less than ever, the marketer gets less for more than ever, and it's a trend, so it's more free jerking off against the paid jerking off which obviously changes the definition of "profit margins".

Then again, when there was the possibility to FUCK it up (technology advancement, cheap bandwith, more broadband penetration, hole in the laws) there would ALWAYS be someone doing this,

If you don't build a fence that's high enough and only leave there the "no access" sign, there will always be people stealing from your garden.

And again, it's not "smart", it's just exploiting a business full of idiots.

And there will most probably NEVER be any unified movement, that would be able to stop this, unless it will be government - which is a two edged sword, or many go to jail or many just retire or turn Christian or something.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-28-2009, 10:47 PM

"Smart" would be to

- get to the owners of all these sites
- setup a live broadcast, put the links here on GFY
- crucify them in live broadcast
- fill all the illegal sites from 80 pct. with your promos and with referral links
- wait till the traffic drops
- find where the traffic goes again, that would be easy
- identify the new ones, who're riding the free fuck up bandwagon
- repeat the procedure

This could actually have some impact on the general understanding of the principle, that stealing from someone, who can fight back, is not right.

Barefootsies · 03-28-2009, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

awesome post

Porko · 03-28-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetcuties

Years ago this biz was easy and fun... it's no longer that way. Feels like a fucking job

So true. Very nice thread btw.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-28-2009, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relentless

Sites need to offer things that are NOT available on tubes. Unique new content and fresh niche ideas, interesting games and alternative entertainment, interactivity....

Stuart,

the sad truth is,

even if you build something that was never here before, even if you invest millions to create a concept that was never in adult, that appeals to very much general audience, and that converts and retains extremely well.

They will still rather send traffic to another big boob site or mega hardcore site like 2 000 others on the market, that offers them unrealistic PPS, and fucks its surfers and them in the ass in exchange.

Affiliates should rethink their business the same way as the pay site owners, if they want to keep making money.

They always shout how the ratios are gone to shit etc.,

BUT if you offer them:

- a unique and exclusive product
- guaranteed payouts
- revshare on a paysite with daily live and exclusive content
- where you constantly try to stimulate the average $ per sign up and make more money for BOTH sides

THEN they either don't care and send it to another xsell / carder clusterfuck offering 70 PPS, or they get GREEDY and want you to match some PPS or higher your revshare,

How about applying simple maths?

How about figuring out what the average $ per 1000 uniques means?

Ok, in my case it's a pretty new site, many promos need to be added yet, many probably want a reference about the numbers from others, therefore I'm planning a massive offensive around May yet, but this indeed happened to me already.

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 03-28-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

I wouldn't agree with the word "smart", it's more like "neccessary" and sometimes even "desperate" effort to regain the numbers.

I'm sorry, but I gotta disagree with you completely. Doing what is "necessary" to survive in your business, and adjusting to a changing climate in your market is "smart" business. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Sitting around dreaming while doing nothing to adjust to what the market has thrown at you makes you a "fucking idiot".

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

"Smart" would be to

- get to the owners of all these sites
- setup a live broadcast, put the links here on GFY
- crucify them in live broadcast
- fill all the illegal sites from 80 pct. with your promos and with referral links
- wait till the traffic drops
- find where the traffic goes again, that would be easy
- identify the new ones, who're riding the free fuck up bandwagon
- repeat the procedure

This could actually have some impact on the general understanding of the principle, that stealing from someone, who can fight back, is not right.

None of this is "smart" at all. This is "idealistic bullshit". When life throws you lemons, break out the tequila...

Like I said, the people who sit around dreaming of a day when they can fight the changing market are going to go "broke" like "idiots" while any "smart" business man adjusts his business plan, and starts cranking out those lemonade sales...

If anything was going to be done to thwart the tube model taking over the mass of adult traffic, it would have been done by now. The smart program and content owners have secured themselves positions at the tube of the current tube game, and are profiting from it by merging the tube and paysite models into one. Cockroaches as they may be, it is the cockroaches that survive the deadliest of dry spells, and in my opinion this is going to be the next step in the evolution of the paysite model...

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-28-2009, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

I'm sorry, but I gotta disagree with you completely. Doing what is "necessary" to survive in your business, and adjusting to a changing climate in your market is "smart" business. Desperate times call for desperate measures. Sitting around dreaming while doing nothing to adjust to what the market has thrown at you makes you a "fucking idiot".

Ok, here's my point - you guys are around in adult for a while, you make your money in adult, but sometimes, you don't see things in perspective, you're sitting by the PC and you're consumed with it. You don't see things in the grand scheme.

You don't see that a dude selling cheap sunglasses he gets from Italy for $10 a piece incl. shipping and popping a piece for $120 is making more money an hour than you, that has much more skills, much more brains and spent years building your sites.

You make a couple bucks on something and call it a "smart" business as it makes money, but then you don't realize, that if this would be made right, it could make you millions.

And if you apply a little bit of common sense and look at it from the outside, you see the incredible level of dumbness in it.

I dare to say there were times, when idiots could make hundreds / thousands a day - who's smart then?

What is smart?

See my point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

None of this is "smart" at all. This is "idealistic bullshit". When life throws you lemons, break out the tequila...

Like I said, the people who sit around dreaming of a day when they can fight the changing market are going to go "broke" like "idiots" while any "smart" business man adjusts his business plan, and starts cranking out those lemonade sales...

If anything was going do be done to thwart the tube model taking over the mass of adult traffic, it would have been done by now. The smart program and content owners have secured themselves positions at the tube of the current tube game, and are profiting from it. Cockroaches as they may be, it is the cockroaches that survive the deadliest of dry spells...

The day you'll call me an idealist, I'll call you an idiot.

Paul Markham · 03-28-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

If bandwith gets another 33 pct. cheaper I'm sure they'll hire one of the last content producers out there left in the business to do this for them!

I hear from them wanting to buy non exclusive all the time. So far resisted the temptation.

Does everyone?

I just heard from a sponsor that he's buying exclusive amateur boy girl content for $300 a scene. Not sure if he's bull shitting me or not, but let's assume he's not for this.

My question is why do people sell scenes of themselves or other people for $300? Because if they gave it to brokers they could easily make $500 if not $1000. Because non exclusive is saturated, so we sell it a lot of times. And that means $$$$$.

Would these guys shoot for Tubes and could they afford it?

Paul Markham · 03-28-2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGS

Been in the adult industry since 1982 and the business has evolved continually from magazines to VHS to DVD to web. The problem is that it got to the web and stopped to evolve for a lot of people and now those people are starting to suffer.

We are all starting to suffer. To a lot of people adapting means capitulating and earning less.

Forkbeard · 03-28-2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SinisterStudios

Welcome to that day, the affiliate model is dying a quick painful death. Programs have built up their traffic networks to a point they just dont need affiliates anymore.

Then why do they keep hounding me to promote their crappy sites?

Affiliate managers and program owners are actually contacting me more, not less. It's not the affiliate model that's under stress, it's the subscription model; and the worse that stress gets, the more affiliate traffic everyone seems to want. It's just, they can't reliably deliver sales on that traffic any more.

Paul Markham · 03-28-2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geoGUERILLA

Guerilla Traffic's overall business has increased over the past two years. We have already surpassed last years numbers and it isn't even April yet. I think the 4 million unemployed people and the huge influx of new affiliates on the market have helped our business. There's more people on the internet every day, therefore this is more traffic. You just need to know how to get it.

Now conversation rates are a different story.......

In general porn traffic has increased in leaps and bounds over the last 10 years. For most of that time this increase traffic covered the decrease in conversions. And everyone carried on as if everything was fine. Then the train hit the buffers and the shit hit the fan. And we all wish we could go back and fix everything.

Paul Markham · 03-29-2009, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

I am not one of those Paul Markham haters but I don't really understand some of his usual points.

Today it doesn't matter that much if the price is $5 or $30.

Which is why NO ONE has $3 dollar trials.

Redrob · 03-29-2009, 12:21 AM

The ugly truth:

The greedy geeks fucked up the adult industry.

Most are smart business people; but, too many are just fucked up people trying to steal what they can.

After 35+ years in adult, I have some perspective.

IMHO.

Paul Markham · 03-29-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relentless

Sites need to offer things that are NOT available on tubes. Unique new content and fresh niche ideas, interesting games and alternative entertainment, interactivity....

I've reviewed more than 3,000 different paysites (some more than a few times - for several different review sites). Of those 3,000+ I'd say less than 500 offered anything truly unique or different from the rest.

If you are interested in seeing what I am talking about, contact me on ICQ# 266942896. I have an exclusive high quality affiliate program with truly unique and different sites. The affiliate program is by invite only... to keep it less saturated. I'll also be at phoenix forum for anyone who wants to discuss this further...

Agreed 100%

The problem is for years we have put content behind traffic. We spent more and more on traffic and less and less on content. The vast number of buyers are only interested in price. They are not that interested in saturation of the model, action, style, setting or what ever. Even exclusive buyers would rather have 5 solo girl scenes that were all the same and faked rather than 3 scenes that were all kick ass.

This also applies to the DVD market. Recently looked at some DVD content that was pure crap. No lead in from what I could see, same scene over and over again, girls faking it and a Eastern European guy behind the camera telling the model or models what to do next.

Paysites have to wake up to the fact that driving traffic is now the second most important thing. Converting it has taken the top spot and to convert traffic you need to offer a lot more than 100 scenes of girls on sofas getting fucked in the ass. They have to be prepared to pay the cost of shooting unique content, come up with unique ideas and make the models do it for real or go home.

They also need to offer more than a site to download videos from.

And then Carlos has pointed out the next problem.

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 03-29-2009, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

Ok, here's my point - you guys are around in adult for a while, you make your money in adult, but sometimes, you don't see things in perspective, you're sitting by the PC and you're consumed with it. You don't see things in the grand scheme.

You don't see that a dude selling cheap sunglasses he gets from Italy for $10 a piece incl. shipping and popping a piece for $120 is making more money an hour than you, that has much more skills, much more brains and spent years building your sites.

You make a couple bucks on something and call it a "smart" business as it makes money, but then you don't realize, that if this would be made right, it could make you millions.

And if you apply a little bit of common sense and look at it from the outside, you see the incredible level of dumbness in it.

I dare to say there were times, when idiots could make hundreds / thousands a day - who's smart then?

What is smart?

See my point?

The day you'll call me an idealist, I'll call you an idiot.

You ARE talking like an idiot here, at fist you had a good point, then all of the sudden you started talking the same stupid shit people have been talking fo a couple years now that has gone NOWHERE. I don't give a FUCK if you've been n this industry for 30 years. If you can't see that these people are doing the smart thing, that is your problem. I am calling you an idealist RIGHT NOW, go ahead and call me an idiot. All the shit you're saying isn't going to change a good damned thing. I see your point, and your point is null, void, it does not hold any weight in reality. In the grand scheme, you can't assume everyone you're in competition with has the same goals, the same ideas, or the same business plan. You can't even assume that all your competition is in it for business.

I agree 100% with your original comment. The traffic pool HAS changed forever. It hasn't dried up, it hasn't disappeared. It wants something different. It does not trust the old paysite model, it does not WANT the old paysite model. What was 10 years ago is not today. People could make thousands a day 10 years ago without busting their ass 20 hours a day 7 days a week. Sure, point taken. But yet again I state, THAT IS NOT TODAY. So quit thinking about it, quit dreaming about days gone by, and look at what you have to deal with in the here and now old timer.

You are not going to stop what is in motion right now. The surfers like the tube sites, they fucking LOVE the tube sites, and that is where they are flocking, by the millions. There's a damn good reason that biggest companies in this industry have bought up the big tube real estate, or started their own huge tube projects. They know that this is the direction the industry is moving in. They didn't get to be at the head of the class by being dumbshits.

What I see here is an industry oldtimer, who made money and saw success in his market. His market is changing now and he thinks he can change it back. Well guess what? He's wrong. In his old market it didn't take an outright marketing genius or incredible business sense to reach a level of financial success, and as the market changes, it's showing...

Lets take your little sunglasses analogy as an example.

Let's say Sunglass Salesman #1 buys his sunglasses for $10 a pair, he sells them for $120 and makes $110 profit. He's doing quite well. He's been doing this forever, but now the sunglass sales are starting to slip. Nobody wants to pay $120 for these sunglasses anymore because they're kind of cheap and overpriced.

Sunglass Salesman #2 is sitting across the street and sees that people are getting sick of paying for these $120 sunglasses. Nobody wants to pay for these sunglasses anymore, but still everyone would like a pair, it's sunny out. So he sets up a restaraunt across the street. He gives away the $10 sunglasses for free to anyone who comes in and buys a $50 meal.

Sunglass Salesman #1 screams and cries when no one wants to pay $120 for a pair of $10 shit sunglasses anymore, and damn near has a fucking heartattack when all of the sudden everybody is going across the street for a steak with the family. He hollers across the street at his old customers that they are idiots, he hollers at Salesman #2 that he destroyed a perfectly good business model and that they both could have profited. However, Salesman #1 still doesn't "get it" he talks about all the ways Sunglass Salesman #2 is destroying his business and eventually just goes broke. He talks about bringing Salesman #2 down with all these crazy ideas that will never work, and all for the justice of sunglass salesman everywhere!

Sunglass Salesman #2 is not making what they used to make, but he's still in business while Sunglasses Salesman #1 is out of business and manning a deepfrier at Denny's. Sunglass Salesman #2 now controls the entire damned sunglass market on the street, and is making a little less than he used to by hucking burgers on the side. But hey, at least he's still making a profit.

Now who is the smart business man again? See my point?

Paul Markham · 03-29-2009, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

So true.. they keep saying conservatives are not good for porn, they try to force restrictions etc. I believe they are those that can actually save our business.. restrictions and radical laws to kick out the fuckers and ruin their huge uncontrolled websites.

Remember the saying: "Forbidden fruit tastes the sweetes" ..the more restrictions, the less free porn online

Very true.

This was something I thought of reading a 2257 thread on YNOT.

If the authorities were serious about 2257 and wanted to find culprits why didn't they visit the Tube sites offices to check out their documents?

Has it been decided that people who only host content are exempt and was this decided when they did the inspection visits last year?

You need the authorities to have the will to enforce laws, not just laws.

Paul Markham · 03-29-2009, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

Stuart,

the sad truth is,

even if you build something that was never here before, even if you invest millions to create a concept that was never in adult, that appeals to very much general audience, and that converts and retains extremely well.

They will still rather send traffic to another big boob site or mega hardcore site like 2 000 others on the market, that offers them unrealistic PPS, and fucks its surfers and them in the ass in exchange.

Affiliates should rethink their business the same way as the pay site owners, if they want to keep making money.

They always shout how the ratios are gone to shit etc.,

BUT if you offer them:

- a unique and exclusive product
- guaranteed payouts
- revshare on a paysite with daily live and exclusive content
- where you constantly try to stimulate the average $ per sign up and make more money for BOTH sides

THEN they either don't care and send it to another xsell / carder clusterfuck offering 70 PPS, or they get GREEDY and want you to match some PPS or higher your revshare,

How about applying simple maths?

How about figuring out what the average $ per 1000 uniques means?

Ok, in my case it's a pretty new site, many promos need to be added yet, many probably want a reference about the numbers from others, therefore I'm planning a massive offensive around May yet, but this indeed happened to me already.

Spot on and totally the truth.

Relentless is right that we need more unique sites, sites that give members more, better and that keep developing. The problem is for every affiliate moaning about Tubes fucking our business there are half a dozen affiliates sending traffic to sites that do the fucking in another way.

As you point out they give the member nothing more than they absolutely have to and spend the minimum they can on it. Then spend as much as they can driving traffic to it. People ask if content is saturated when it's so cheap it has to saturated to sell. Then they don't buy the more expensive because it too expensive. You can't have both.

Yes now everyone can point out the handful of sites that don't do this and then call me a fool.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-29-2009, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

You ARE talking like an idiot here, at fist you had a good point, then all of the sudden you started talking the same stupid shit people have been talking fo a couple years now that has gone NOWHERE.

What exactly are you referring to? I'm lost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

I don't give a FUCK if you've been n this industry for 30 years.

Why should you? I don't get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

If you can't see that these people are doing the smart thing, that is your problem. I am calling you an idealist RIGHT NOW, go ahead and call me an idiot.

Dude, for Christ's sake you're still not getting it,

Ok once again:

Do you think you are smarter than the pawnbroker around the corner, if you're making a couple bucks on the internet, in an environment where anyone can fuck you in the ass?

Answer me

My ANSWER IS:

NO

You know why? Because he DOESN'T LET ANYONE steal his shit and he doesn't get fucked by shady morons voluntarily every day and CALL HIMSELF SMART!

CALLING HIMSELF SMART!

That's my point, I don't care how long is someone around, I don't care if someone still makes millions, but I CARE if someone calls THIS BUSINESS MODEL SMART!!!

That' my point, I can repeat it over and over again if you want to, this is not smart!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

All the shit you're saying isn't going to change a good damned thing. I see your point, and your point is null, void, it does not hold any weight in reality.

What are you talking about? What I wrote is not real, is everything ok then?

I'm lost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

In the grand scheme, you can't assume everyone you're in competition with has the same goals, the same ideas, or the same business plan. You can't even assume that all your competition is in it for business.

But I can always assume that certain percentage of my competition are shady morons, a perfumed poverty, or fast scheme thiefs, that's what I can assume, and I don't have to keep my mouth shut about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

I agree 100% with your original comment. The traffic pool HAS changed forever. It hasn't dried up, it hasn't disappeared. It wants something different. It does not trust the old paysite model, it does not WANT the old paysite model.

What is the old paysite model - shitty content / getting fucked, carders, cross sales, dialers, pop ups ? is that what you mean?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

What was 10 years ago is not today. People could make thousands a day 10 years ago without busting their ass 20 hours a day 7 days a week. Sure, point taken. But yet again I state, THAT IS NOT TODAY. So quit thinking about it, quit dreaming about days gone by, and look at what you have to deal with in the here and now old timer.

I only assume this, I was busy jerking off while at college when I could have been making a bank - well people don't always do smart things..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

You are not going to stop what is in motion right now. The surfers like the tube sites, they fucking LOVE the tube sites, and that is where they are flocking, by the millions.

And what's the point of this point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

There's a damn good reason that biggest companies in this industry have bought up the big tube real estate, or started their own huge tube projects. They know that this is the direction the industry is moving in. They didn't get to be at the head of the class by being dumbshits.

I disagree, I know more than one who's really dumb, and you don't have to be an einstein to figure out that if you can't help others steal from you you better stop stealing too.

But this is an animal instinct - it's not SMART for Christ's sake!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

What I see here is an industry oldtimer, who made money and saw success in his market. His market is changing now and he thinks he can change it back. Well guess what? He's wrong. In his old market it didn't take an outright marketing genius or incredible business sense to reach a level of financial success, and as the market changes, it's showing...

As a matter of fact, I was never doing more turnover for 1000 uniques than now, and I will stand by my word.

This is hypothetical discussion, and I'm talking about general niche here, once again - general niche and general state of affairs.

Once again, I'm nowhere an old timer, I just keep my eyes open, and I'm making more $ per 1000 uniques that hit the paysites than ever, cause it's different, I'm not worried about our business, at least for a couple years, I also admit I don't see my middle or long term future in adult, unless I will be able to effectively exploit the dumbness and ignorance that fills adult, it will not be worth the hassle.

It's always about the opportunity cost, if you can make money somewhere else, if an opportunity arises, if there will be a chance to sell...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Lets take your little sunglasses analogy as an example.

Let's say Sunglass Salesman #1 buys his sunglasses for $10 a pair, he sells them for $120 and makes $110 profit. He's doing quite well. He's been doing this forever, but now the sunglass sales are starting to slip. Nobody wants to pay $120 for these sunglasses anymore because they're kind of cheap and overpriced.

Sunglass Salesman #2 is sitting across the street and sees that people are getting sick of paying for these $120 sunglasses. Nobody wants to pay for these sunglasses anymore, but still everyone would like a pair, it's sunny out. So he sets up a restaraunt across the street. He gives away the $10 sunglasses for free to anyone who comes in and buys a $50 meal.

Sunglass Salesman #1 screams and cries when no one wants to pay $120 for a pair of $10 shit sunglasses anymore, and damn near has a fucking heartattack when all of the sudden everybody is going across the street for a steak with the family. He hollers across the street at his old customers that they are idiots, he hollers at Salesman #2 that he destroyed a perfectly good business model and that they both could have profited. However, Salesman #1 still doesn't "get it" he talks about all the ways Sunglass Salesman #2 is destroying his business and eventually just goes broke. He talks about bringing Salesman #2 down with all these crazy ideas that will never work, and all for the justice of sunglass salesman everywhere!

Sunglass Salesman #2 is not making what they used to make, but he's still in business while Sunglasses Salesman #1 is out of business and manning a deepfrier at Denny's. Sunglass Salesman #2 now controls the entire damned sunglass market on the street, and is making a little less than he used to by hucking burgers on the side. But hey, at least he's still making a profit.

Now who is the smart business man again? See my point?

No, your analogy deals with certain aspects that only exist in REAL world.

Here's the right analogy:

Aalesman no. 2 is the thief, he steals the sunglasses from the salesman no. 1 and then offers them for free if they get also something else from his shop, or charges everyone 10 bucks a piece .

Salesman no.1 won't get any sales cause salesman no.2 fucked him over and is offering his product for free, while banking money on his product, from his customers.

Salesman no.1 calls the police and says the salesman no.2 is offering stolen goods, salesman no.2 is forced to close shop and flee or he gets in trouble.

Salesman no.3 would also want to steal something to keep ahead with the salesman no.3 but he's afraid he would get busted.

THIS is how it sometimes works in real world with control mechanisms!

Do you STILL want to call the salesman no. 2 and salesman no.3 smart?

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-29-2009, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

I disagree, I know more than one who's really dumb, and you don't have to be an einstein to figure out that if you can't help others steal from you you better stop stealing too.

But this is an animal instinct - it's not SMART for Christ's sake!

Correction:

You don't have to be an Einstein to figure out, that if you can't keep others from stealing from you, than you better start stealing too.

But this is an animal instinct - it's not SMART for Christ's sake!

I'm kind of tired and type retarded things sometimes.

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 03-29-2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

Correction:

You don't have to be an Einstein to figure out, that if you can't keep others from stealing from you, than you better start stealing too.

But this is an animal instinct - it's not SMART for Christ's sake!

I'm kind of tired and type retarded things sometimes.

Where did I say start stealing too? Where did I say that people should start an illegal tube site? I said that surfers are comfortable with a tubesite model right now, and that the merger of the tube and paysite model is going to be more and more popular as people in the industry adapt to the changing landscape of the market. the numbers prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's by no means going to be the only option. I liked what Relentless had to show me, adding an interactive nature to the site is a great move in the right direction, obviously there's VOD too, and surely other innovators will have ideas that come to work with the changing wants/needs of the average porn consumer.

I find it funny that you ask all these questions that you already know the answer for, then reject realistic answers to them.

You ask, where is the traffic going? YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE GOING.
You ask, well why are they going there? YOU KNOW WHY THEY ARE GOING THERE.

People are adapting to survive and you don't seem to think it's smart. I find that pretty damn funny. While the majority of people sit around bitching about tubes, worrying about what to do about them, some networks are embracing them, working with them, and harnessing massive amounts of traffic in the process. I hardly find that stupid. Call it what you will, but adaptation, survival of the fittest, whatever you want to label it is far from stupid.

People are dedicated to their favorite tubes. People get accustomed to their favorite tubes They come back for every wank, they come back daily, twice daily. Now they see something they want, they got their cock in hand, they drop the premium membership fee and they're in. They're happy, the retain paid members. It's a model that cuts out the middle man affiliates, does it's own promotion, and still monetizes content that otherwise would be stolen anyhow. I personally think this a reasonable adaptation to the changing market, and you're certainly going to see more of it.

As you mentioned with ND, they keep everything in their own network. Cams, Dating. they profit from all angles. Now run your own ams and own Dating on a tube site doing a million visitors a day. Cut out affiliate payments, and you have something to work with again.

You don't have to think it's smart, but I do. What I don't think is smart is fighting a battle to maintain an obsolete business model in changing times. I think the adult affiliate is slowly going to be worked out of the equation to maintain profit margins for the top tier of affiliates and networks. It only makes sense. that's why i got out. It took me about 3-4 months of working with mainstream promos to catch up to monthly earnings on par with 3 years of adult promo. That should say something about the shape the market is in here for affiliates.

People made mention of affiliate programs digging for affiliates. I get these emails and ICQ's still too. Guess which programs I'd put my money on being the first to go tits up? If I ran a network, I'd be busting my ass to bring the traffic back in house.

Maybe don't ask for answers to questions which you already know the answers to, and shit on the responses you get just because you don't agree with them.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-29-2009, 04:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Where did I say start stealing too? Where did I say that people should start an illegal tube site?

And here's the point, what started the tube madness? What still kicks ass of any legal tube out there? I'm not talking about marketers here, I'm talking about thiefs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

I said that surfers are comfortable with a tubesite model right now, and that the merger of the tube and paysite model is going to be more and more popular as people in the industry adapt to the changing landscape of the market. the numbers prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

No objections from me, I've licensed 48 hours of full length content to a legal site seeing conversions below 1:500, can you get it from an MGP?

Do I care if people watch my licensed content there more and are more interested in it than average content?

Of course not!

But that's called a competitive advantage, and I don't need to fuck anyone over to get it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

It's by no means going to be the only option. I liked what Relentless had to show me, adding an interactive nature to the site is a great move in the right direction, obviously there's VOD too, and surely other innovators will have ideas that come to work with the changing wants/needs of the average porn consumer.

That's what I'm trying to do, trying to innovate, get them to buy, and retain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

I find it funny that you ask all these questions that you already know the answer for, then reject realistic answers to them.
You ask, where is the traffic going? YOU KNOW WHERE THEY ARE GOING.
You ask, well why are they going there? YOU KNOW WHY THEY ARE GOING THERE.

This is actually called a "rhetorical question"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

People are adapting to survive and you don't seem to think it's smart. I find that pretty damn funny. While the majority of people sit around bitching about tubes, worrying about what to do about them, some networks are embracing them, working with them, and harnessing massive amounts of traffic in the process. I hardly find that stupid. Call it what you will, but adaptation, survival of the fittest, whatever you want to label it is far from stupid.

You're in exact contradiction with your previous point, you said you don't approve illegal tube sites and now you preach them as the smartest, toughest, and those who will survive?

Do I bitch here about legal tube sites?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

People are dedicated to their favorite tubes. People get accustomed to their favorite tubes They come back for every wank, they come back daily, twice daily. Now they see something they want, they got their cock in hand, they drop the premium membership fee and they're in.

They're happy, the retain paid members. It's a model that cuts out the middle man affiliates, does it's own promotion, and still monetizes content that otherwise would be stolen anyhow. I personally think this a reasonable adaptation to the changing market, and you're certainly going to see more of it.

Incredible evolution, getting from 1:1000 to 1:5000 and paying for a shitload of bandwith costs for junk traffic jerkers.

Now that's smart!

What are you trying to advocate, dumbness?

Pick a side!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

As you mentioned with ND, they keep everything in their own network. Cams, Dating. they profit from all angles. Now run your own ams and own Dating on a tube site doing a million visitors a day. Cut out affiliate payments, and you have something to work with again.

They were always ahead of the pack, yes they are without a doubt smart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

You don't have to think it's smart, but I do. What I don't think is smart is fighting a battle to maintain an obsolete business model in changing times. I think the adult affiliate is slowly going to be worked out of the equation to maintain profit margins for the top tier of affiliates and networks. It only makes sense. that's why i got out. It took me about 3-4 months of working with mainstream promos to catch up to monthly earnings on par with 3 years of adult promo. That should say something about the shape the market is in here for affiliates.

Again, what do you trying to advocate?

Can you prove this is not dumber than the tease and pay model?

What is your beef?

I'm EXAMINING the situation where I will still have conversions below 1:1000 and others / regular will go to shit, that's what I do.

This is hypothetical, can you hypothetically, for once, admit that this model is dumb?

please !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

People made mention of affiliate programs digging for affiliates. I get these emails and ICQ's still too. Guess which programs I'd put my money on being the first to go tits up? If I ran a network, I'd be busting my ass to bring the traffic back in house.

Maybe don't ask for answers to questions which you already know the answers to, and shit on the responses you get just because you don't agree with them.

Please read above and tell me, what are you trying to advocate here.

Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life · 03-29-2009, 04:23 AM

Sure, it's absolutely fucking retarded from a business standpoint to give a ton of content away for free. I'll admit it readily, but at this point, it almost has to be done to contend with those sites promoting the illegal shares. But if you're a big network, with a shitload of content, why not give your old content away for free to draw the traffic in, and do your best to convert them on your new content right on site? Run your own dating program, your own cams, sell premium membership to view the better videos. Cut the affiliate out, and work your own traffic.The paysite/tube merger is a completely viable model for someone in this position. They have no legal worries, bandwidth is getting cheaper and cheaper. If it works for them, go for it! I say good for em, and I think it's going to become more popular.

Creating a strong interactive community is going to be necessary for the future survival and retention of any site though. Relentless has got some great ideas involved with his projects right now, and he's combining that with new niche content. If you haven't spoke with him, he's worth dropping a line to.

polish_aristocrat · 03-29-2009, 05:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

In his old market it didn't take an outright marketing genius or incredible business sense to reach a level of financial success, and as the market changes, it's showing...

this is true, but this was what made this industry worth working for

90% of webmasters were just guys who came in it for the easy money (me included), instead of guys who dreamed about being in porn

I couldn't have cared less about porn, in fact the porn thing has made it worse for someone like me, who was preparred for a totally different career and because of porn, caouldn't go back into it anymore..

anyway, i'm not bitching particularly about me, I'm saying those thousands of webmasters who came here for the easy money, are bitching

I'd be NEVER doing this thing if i had to work 10 hours per day and earn the same as my neighbor working in an office... well, Ok, it's not THAT bad for me yet

anyway, bitching doesn't really help in our case, I know
but if you had a car accident and be put on a wheelchair for the rest of your life, you'd be bitching too instead of just adapting to the new situation

even in your own post you admitted that lots of affiliaes are going to be phased out, so if the pile s shrinking, then using common logic, you can see it's not possible for everyone to adapt

but i agree with you that none of these threads will have any impact on the industry

Zester · 03-29-2009, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnniKN

I bet if tubes had DONATE buttons they'd make bank too, even more than with the Premium mode. The surfer feels admiration and gratitude for these forums and sites, most paysites were never deserving of admiration or gratitude.

...writting this down....

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-29-2009, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Sure, it's absolutely fucking retarded from a business standpoint to give a ton of content away for free. I'll admit it readily, but at this point, it almost has to be done to contend with those sites promoting the illegal shares. But if you're a big network, with a shitload of content, why not give your old content away for free to draw the traffic in, and do your best to convert them on your new content right on site? Run your own dating program, your own cams, sell premium membership to view the better videos. Cut the affiliate out, and work your own traffic.The paysite/tube merger is a completely viable model for someone in this position. They have no legal worries, bandwidth is getting cheaper and cheaper. If it works for them, go for it! I say good for em, and I think it's going to become more popular.

Creating a strong interactive community is going to be necessary for the future survival and retention of any site though. Relentless has got some great ideas involved with his projects right now, and he's combining that with new niche content. If you haven't spoke with him, he's worth dropping a line to.

Agreed,

Let's bury the hatchet.

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-29-2009, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polish_aristocrat

but i agree with you that none of these threads will have any impact on the industry

That's untrue, it's important to be in picture, it's important to identify the problem, it's to have an overview about what's going on, it's important to avoid all those cliches and demagogic bullshit.

If only one affiliate reconsiders where is he sending the traffic after reading this thread, it was well worth the effort.

frankie_gunn · 03-29-2009, 07:52 AM

Let's think of one important issue here: PornHub gets millions of visitors every day NOT because it has come up with the tube site with Premium membership scheme (which I consider it's brilliant, by the way), but because THEY ARE NUMBER ONE IN GOOGLE FOR ALMOST EVERY THEME RELATED KEYWORD.

So even if a small blog will take that position, then THAT blog will have millions of visitors every day...

slapass · 03-29-2009, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpicyM

If I wanted good quality porn in my favourite niches, TUBEs would be the last thing where I would search for it. I cant watch the boring videos TUBE sites offer and I never surf them personally.. who still really enjoys "hardcore pornstar fucking" in shitty quality?? I want high definition movies, clear not blurry, quality niche and ability to download it. I would still join several paysites I know if I had the time and money for it, just because I love the rare content.

But you don't join and thus the problem... And lots of people enjoy "pornstar hardcore fucking".

slapass · 03-29-2009, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie_gunn

Let's think of one important issue here: PornHub gets millions of visitors every day NOT because it has come up with the tube site with Premium membership scheme (which I consider it's brilliant, by the way), but because THEY ARE NUMBER ONE IN GOOGLE FOR ALMOST EVERY THEME RELATED KEYWORD.

So even if a small blog will take that position, then THAT blog will have millions of visitors every day...

Not true because pornhub has tons of porn and people bookmark or remember it. The small blog? well good luck.

montel · 03-29-2009, 01:35 PM

""The Tragedy of the Commons" is an influential article written by Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968.[1] The article describes a dilemma in which multiple individuals acting independently in their own self-interest can ultimately destroy a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long term interest for this to happen."

Sound familiar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

The management of commons have been an issue in England since large amounts of public farm land or 'commons' were made available to farmers. Instead of over-farming, we have people doing multi opt-ins on credit cards and scaring the customers. Then there are these other guys giving away free stuff to the customers so that noone even wants to buy the stuff we have.

------------

On another note- did you guys really think it would stay like it was forever? You say The Hun and the TGPs are losing traffic? Could that be because HE HASN'T UPDATED HIS FUCKING SITE SINCE 1996? Same for the rest.

You are surprised people don't want your 16 pic galleries and 2 minute clips? Do you actually surf that shit yourself when you jerk off? Why would you expect your customers to put up with that shit and stick with you if you don't even like it yourself?

----------------------

Jack Sparrow · 03-29-2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

How about this:

1) overload of free substitute on the net
2) cc scamming going on
3) no ethics - many will pull any scam they're capable of to steal your piece of the pie (connected with the point 1 and point 2)

Well, say this might be able to help with the over saturation, as many might close the shop.

But the problem is that the biggest scams will most likely remain in the game - should we rethink the meaning of ethics if we are on the web?

As long as the real problem isnt being taken care of, or as long as people who try and really do something versus the people who only complain (not meaning you btw) are getting bitched at i think rethinking ethics is almost impossible. Would love to see it happen though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnniKN

Main problem with this industry is its hypocrisy and self-destructive behaviour -being shortsighted, lying to the surfer, running credit cards and all sorts of things... the surfer never developed a liking for the industry, they could love a single website's content, but having to pay for it was an inconvenience as oppossed to something you wanted to do because it was both worth it and because you wanted the people who are running this awesome site to get something back for fulfilling your needs.

The way I see it, the industry needs a major clean up, and we need to educate the surfer - will it work? fuck if I know, but I do know that the sites that still get rebills and memberships are the ones that provide the surfer with something unique and that they find pleasant, and there is a reason for that.

Amen to that. And i sincerly hope the sponsors and adult companies rethink it for a bit. Im glad i got you interested in our new project, and keep my hopes up a lot of the other sponsors will follow the example, working togehther and stop supporting the dark side and start supporting the people who try and make things change!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

But I can imagine if there's not the "different" "real" and "live" factor, it can as well be much tougher to upsell the content that's more "regular" and therefore extremely substitutable.

Carlos i added you to my messengers, please hit me up, i would love to discuss with you about something, and get you involved in our new project!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Dre

This have very little to do with the economy but a lot to do with how webmasters handled their business in the last couple years. Especially with the new avaliability of streaming full lenght videos online, but not just that. We lost the confidence of the surfers with the cross sales, fraud, charge backs, dialers, auto dialers, email spam and other deceptive marketing methods.

Maybe we can start by re-educating the webmasters who are in fact pushing the traffic around. I think thats a way better start then trying to re-educate surfers. It all starts with the sites they get on and sent to, in my opinion. Convincing them to use legal embeds instead of illegal ones, will certainly help NOT to get those promoted to the surfers, and losing them for a lifetime. May i hit you up sometime?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

Not hearing this for the first time.

Actually, this reminds me I'm still owing the guys from xbiz ad network a try with their ppc context solution, I kind of like the model, Lorenzo should be bugging me already, I haven't returned the contract yet.

Can you sent me a link to that? Would love to try it out myself too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elli

Great post, AnniKN. I've been milling it over in my own head lately, how to appeal to the surfer to explain the situation. I recently added a page of text to my videos on my own site saying "If you found this video anywhere but on ElliNude.com and you're enjoying it, please come by the official site and say hi". No idea if it's working yet, but it's worth a shot, right?

Sounds like a wonderfull idea, let me know how that worked out, im doing somewhat of the same atm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elli

If not donations, I think micro-payments have huge potential. Like a clip store, but without the store aspect. If only the processors could allow say $2 charges for a single video file, etc, it would be easier for the surfer to swallow than a commitment like a monthly subscription that they have to remember to cancel.

Good point ellie. Lemme know if our up for a chat sometime. Info in signature.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mynameisjim

What I do know is tube sites are doing more and more reposts and the surfers realize it. If you follow tube sites and the user comments, you will see them complain when there is a repost. Point is, if legit webmasters started locking down their content the tube sites would slowly dry up from a lack of content. The surfer would get tired of the lack of new content and would slowly start to search out porn again.

It really is that easy.

Exactly! And thats what im trying to do with our new project. Lets start to try and convince the WEBMASTERS who embed those videos to use the alternative, im up for that, in fact im putting my neck out and my balls, to try and do that right now!

Quote:

Originally Posted by crockett

Blame the tubes.. Yes really not just a catch phrase.

Affiliate programs need to start putting their foot down as to how many adds can be on the same page as their promotional content.

And maybe start supporting legal tubes only, or at least give those more support. Might i hit u up for a talk soon?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

There is nothing new about any of this. It's all old hat.

1) overload of free substitute on the net When you have a system run by people who want it for free, they see the solution as giving it away for free. It's a mindset.

2) cc scamming going on I think it was Crescent, or the company that runs this publisher who I first heard of ripping off credit cards, again nothing new.

3) no ethics - many will pull any scam they're capable of to steal your piece of the pie Since I first started selling here it was amazing the different attitudes there was to stealing or conning. It seemed doing it to an affiliates was a crime so bad it should be punished by death. Yet doing the same to customers was never really a problem. Unless it effected out income. Seems the worm has turned.

I want to talk to you to paul

Interesting points there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

If I would publish my conversion ratios with bigsisterlive.com for the entire 2009, the whole GFY would call me out that I'm bragging and shit and they would do anything what they can to try to put me down.

I'll actually do it once I'll have all the promos up, why should I fucking care?

Please do, and hit me up!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by slapass

Because a lot of us are geeks, we don't realize how big of a deal a tube site is. Torrents have more stuff etc but most people can't and won't use them but a tube is easy. Your 50 year old American with a wallet full of CC's no longer needs to pay and that is what is hurting us.

I do like the idea of policing the content. If tubes got stale it would help a lot.

Exactly what im trying to do. Now if i would get some backup, that would help a lot

It seems people like to complain more, then supporting anybody who at least gives it a try to stale them!! Good point there!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angry Jew Cat

Likewise.

As for anyone else who might be interested. I just checked out Relentless's sites. He's definitely working in the right direction as far as reworking the membership model. As an affiliate working with revshare sales, these are the type of sites that will retain membership and keep a user active within the site, outside of say the 8 minutes it might take them to bust a nut over some video. I agree with him on the points he's made. You gotta offer something that either a) hasn't been done, b) provides the user with interaction outside of just jerking their meat, or c) offers both.

Regardless of what people continue to work with in adult, it's going to take some serious adaptation. Relentless offers clean sites, which don't screw or mislead the members, give the members incentive to stick around, and generally I think should do well for anyone who likes those recurring sales. If I were still promoting adult actively as an affiliate, this is the sort of network I'd be looking at working with.

Indeed, is there any way i can contact him, or maybe you can let him know i would love to talk to him?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlosTheGaucho

"Smart" would be to

- get to the owners of all these sites
- setup a live broadcast, put the links here on GFY
- crucify them in live broadcast
- fill all the illegal sites from 80 pct. with your promos and with referral links
- wait till the traffic drops
- find where the traffic goes again, that would be easy
- identify the new ones, who're riding the free fuck up bandwagon
- repeat the procedure

This could actually have some impact on the general understanding of the principle, that stealing from someone, who can fight back, is not right.

It can be done easier. If everybody would stop supporting illegal tubes and start supporting the ones making an effort to keep it clean, let the webmasters make money from embedding legal videos, convince them to do that instead of sending the surfers in the hands of the wrongdoers, and sponsors backing up and supporting those who use legal embeds surrounded by the right banners.

Very interesting thread, bookmarked!

CarlosTheGaucho · 03-29-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by montel

You are surprised people don't want your 16 pic galleries and 2 minute clips? Do you actually surf that shit yourself when you jerk off? Why would you expect your customers to put up with that shit and stick with you if you don't even like it yourself?

----------------------

Definitely true,

The question is if there's even anyone putting effort into mgp's these days, most of them are changed to (in the best case) legit tube sites or add a legit tube section.

Thanks for the link.

Barefootsies · 03-29-2009, 11:42 PM

Two Hundie CarlosTheGaucho's

03-28-2009, 04:54 PM	#155
StarkReality Confirmed User Join Date: May 2004 Location: 4 8 15 16 23 42 Posts: 4,444	The sad fact seems to be that the indusrty is totally unable to regulate itself, since it's not really one industry. It's just a bunch of people trying to get the maximum for themselves regardless of how much they ruin the business for all others. Ironically, their piece of the cake gets smaller, too, since the cake itself is becoming smaller every day. So, yes, it looks like we need government regulation like in other countries. More irony, it looks like those who hate and fight adult could be the ones saving us from the total meltdown. Last edited by StarkReality; 03-28-2009 at 04:55 PM..

03-28-2009, 04:57 PM	#156
Roald SecretFriends.com Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Location: IMC Headquarters Posts: 27,882	nice thread sofar!! __________________ WE ARE BUYING PAY SITES! CONTACT ME ClubSweethearts \| ManUpFilms \| SinfulXXX \| HOT * AdultPrime * HOT Paying webmasters since 1996! Contact: r.riepen @ sansylgroup.com \| telegram: roaldr

03-28-2009, 05:03 PM	#157
MrDeiz SignBucksDaily.com Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 9,802	one significant thing... i'm not complaining, i'm just saying... we have checked signbucksdaily.com outgoing ips with some programs and found that most of webmasters (80-90% and of course big fish) drop our ref id (in many ways, i can only guess, though it's not hard to find out)... so what we can expect from all in business if even 'legit' webmasters have no ethics... __________________ Make money with WEBC$MS The only way to still make money in adult

03-28-2009, 05:41 PM	#158
Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life (felis madjewicus) Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In Mom & Dad's Basement Posts: 20,368	When you see sites like Redtube, Pornhub, PornBB, PlanetSuzy, and massive media sharing torrent sites pulling into the millions of daily viewers, I think it's pretty obvious where that traffic is going, don't you? These sites have massive authority with the search engines, and dedicated user followings. Searching almost any adult term will turn one or more of these sites up with very high rankings in the SERPs. On top of that there are thousands and thousands of freehosted surfer ran sharing blogs, smaller forums, yahoo groups, etc etc. Nobody wants to pay for this shit anymore. It's common knowledge you can find most digital content for free somewhere. Why pay for it? If I had a giant field of fresh fruit and veggies growing right out my backdoor, I wouldn't be going to the grocery store to buy produce. It's a changing landscape, and if someone wants to survive, well maybe they should look at finding a way to profit from that giant crop of readily available veggies. What I see is content owners beginning to use this to their advantage. Starting their own tubes regaining their lost traffic and finding new ways to capitalize on it.. Take PornHub and their "Premium" memberships for example. I think the the tubesite model being merged with the paysite model is the wave of the future. Those who are cultivating this field right now, are the ones who are going to survive. What this is doing bringing the traffic back in house for the content owners and networks. It's cutting out the middle man in order to maintain a profit margin, and while everyone in the industry is taking a loss, in the end it is going to be the average affiliate who dies out. Unless you've harnessed a massive traffic flow, you're not going to make it, and I can see the top dog affiliates doing the smart thing and buying their content to keep all their profits in house too. The average surfer has been conditioned to not trust the paysite model by all sorts of shady practices like cross sales, difficult canceling of recurring memberships and so on. They have grown to trust the tube model, and I'm sure will grow to trust even it's paid options more so than shelling over $30/month for a membership site... It's my opinion that the adult affiliate is going to become a thing of the past more and more so over the next few years. What I see for the future is more mega tube-styled sites with their own licensed content, maintaining their own user bases and capitalizing on their own premium memberships. In order to maintain profitability the networks are going to have to work the middleman affiliate out of the equation, and I believe that they are making it happen now. Smart business by those who are leading the pack at the moment... Last edited by Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life; 03-28-2009 at 05:43 PM..

03-28-2009, 05:57 PM	#160
Relentless www.EngineFood.com Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,697	Sites need to offer things that are NOT available on tubes. Unique new content and fresh niche ideas, interesting games and alternative entertainment, interactivity.... I've reviewed more than 3,000 different paysites (some more than a few times - for several different review sites). Of those 3,000+ I'd say less than 500 offered anything truly unique or different from the rest. If you are interested in seeing what I am talking about, contact me on ICQ# 266942896. I have an exclusive high quality affiliate program with truly unique and different sites. The affiliate program is by invite only... to keep it less saturated. I'll also be at phoenix forum for anyone who wants to discuss this further... __________________ Website Secure \| Engine Food ICQ# 266-942-896

03-28-2009, 06:33 PM	#162
Relentless www.EngineFood.com Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 5,697	Nice chatting with you AJC __________________ Website Secure \| Engine Food ICQ# 266-942-896

03-28-2009, 10:47 PM	#169
CarlosTheGaucho Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 9,512	"Smart" would be to - get to the owners of all these sites - setup a live broadcast, put the links here on GFY - crucify them in live broadcast - fill all the illegal sites from 80 pct. with your promos and with referral links - wait till the traffic drops - find where the traffic goes again, that would be easy - identify the new ones, who're riding the free fuck up bandwagon - repeat the procedure This could actually have some impact on the general understanding of the principle, that stealing from someone, who can fight back, is not right. __________________ CTG Media \| skype: carlosprague \| cb \|at\| ctgmedia \|dot\| net \| Want to make more with your Dating Traffic? \| Read My Educational Series \| Read my Adult Biz Chronicles \| Did your ad revenue drop by 40 pct. or more last year? Last edited by CarlosTheGaucho; 03-28-2009 at 10:48 PM..

03-29-2009, 12:21 AM	#180
Redrob Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: In a refrigerator box by the tracks. Posts: 4,790	The ugly truth: The greedy geeks fucked up the adult industry. Most are smart business people; but, too many are just fucked up people trying to steal what they can. After 35+ years in adult, I have some perspective. IMHO.

03-29-2009, 04:23 AM	#189
Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life (felis madjewicus) Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: In Mom & Dad's Basement Posts: 20,368	Sure, it's absolutely fucking retarded from a business standpoint to give a ton of content away for free. I'll admit it readily, but at this point, it almost has to be done to contend with those sites promoting the illegal shares. But if you're a big network, with a shitload of content, why not give your old content away for free to draw the traffic in, and do your best to convert them on your new content right on site? Run your own dating program, your own cams, sell premium membership to view the better videos. Cut the affiliate out, and work your own traffic.The paysite/tube merger is a completely viable model for someone in this position. They have no legal worries, bandwidth is getting cheaper and cheaper. If it works for them, go for it! I say good for em, and I think it's going to become more popular. Creating a strong interactive community is going to be necessary for the future survival and retention of any site though. Relentless has got some great ideas involved with his projects right now, and he's combining that with new niche content. If you haven't spoke with him, he's worth dropping a line to. Last edited by Angry Jew Cat - Banned for Life; 03-29-2009 at 04:24 AM..

03-29-2009, 07:52 AM	#194
frankie_gunn Confirmed User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 270	Let's think of one important issue here: PornHub gets millions of visitors every day NOT because it has come up with the tube site with Premium membership scheme (which I consider it's brilliant, by the way), but because THEY ARE NUMBER ONE IN GOOGLE FOR ALMOST EVERY THEME RELATED KEYWORD. So even if a small blog will take that position, then THAT blog will have millions of visitors every day...

03-29-2009, 01:35 PM	#197
montel Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: See sig! Posts: 2,606	""The Tragedy of the Commons" is an influential article written by Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968.[1] The article describes a dilemma in which multiple individuals acting independently in their own self-interest can ultimately destroy a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long term interest for this to happen." Sound familiar? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons The management of commons have been an issue in England since large amounts of public farm land or 'commons' were made available to farmers. Instead of over-farming, we have people doing multi opt-ins on credit cards and scaring the customers. Then there are these other guys giving away free stuff to the customers so that noone even wants to buy the stuff we have. ------------ On another note- did you guys really think it would stay like it was forever? You say The Hun and the TGPs are losing traffic? Could that be because HE HASN'T UPDATED HIS FUCKING SITE SINCE 1996? Same for the rest. You are surprised people don't want your 16 pic galleries and 2 minute clips? Do you actually surf that shit yourself when you jerk off? Why would you expect your customers to put up with that shit and stick with you if you don't even like it yourself? ---------------------- __________________ Barefootsies

03-29-2009, 11:42 PM	#200
Barefootsies Choice is an Illusion Industry Role: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Land of Obama Posts: 42,635	Two Hundie CarlosTheGaucho's __________________ Should You Email Your Members? Link1 \| Link2 \| Link3 Enough Said. "Would you rather live like a king for a year or like a prince forever?" Last edited by Barefootsies; 03-29-2009 at 11:45 PM..