Epoch is asking to see two of my models IDs - Page 4 - GoFuckYourself.com

DWB · 09-20-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Again, you are muddying the waters.

If your agreement with EPOCH/CCBill/ToeHee Billing tells you that you need to comply with THEIR terms of service you signed back when you joined them. That supersedes any other 'legalities' you want to lay claim to.

I signed away those rights when you joined, typically. It is not a 2257 issue. It is a T.O.S. issue of compliance.

I don't have access to that contract to see if that's the case or not. It very well may be, and if so, then I will just have to not use them.

Though, after reading all of these posts, the fact that they will take an ID, with EVERYTHING but the DOB and photo blacked out, then WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT? I can photoshop that shit in 2 minutes, and where does that leave them? How does that protect them, when they have a blacked out ID with a girls photo that doesn't even look like her, and a DOB? Again, it's all bullshit. I know it, you know it, they know it. What will anyone gain from that ID, should I even give it to them? What's the point?

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty D

We now deal with 7 different billing companies, Epoch will never be one of them.

DWB · 09-20-2009, 05:14 PM

Oh... "Visa required it" they can say. BULL FUCKING SHIT. These companies use Visa as an excuse so much it makes my head hurt. How can Visa not approve something with Epoch or CCbill, but will approve it if you have your own merchant account? Either you use Visa or you don't. It's all 100% grade-a bullshit.

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

I don't have access to that contract to see if that's the case or not. It very well may be, and if so, then I will just have to not use them.

Though, after reading all of these posts, the fact that they will take an ID, with EVERYTHING but the DOB and photo blacked out, then WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT? I can photoshop that shit in 2 minutes, and where does that leave them? How does that protect them, when they have a blacked out ID with a girls photo that doesn't even look like her, and a DOB? Again, it's all bullshit. I know it, you know it, they know it. What will anyone gain from that ID, should I even give it to them? What's the point?

The point is, that they are covering their ass.

They can tell their merchant bank/VISA they contacted you, and that you provided them documentation that the models are of legal age, and issue is closed.

It's called, due diligence in C.Y.A..

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Oh... "Visa required it" they can say. BULL FUCKING SHIT. These companies use Visa as an excuse so much it makes my head hurt. How can Visa not approve something with Epoch or CCbill, but will approve it if you have your own merchant account? Either you use Visa or you don't. It's all 100% grade-a bullshit.

Not all merchant banks are the same.

So CCB may use one merchant bank that is very lax on what is allowed, and EPOCH could use one that has stricter rules. Same as Verotel, or overseas processors can have rules, or lack of rules, that U.S. companies do/not have to follow.

I have seen this myself over the years personally, and those kind of disparities do exist.

DWB · 09-20-2009, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty D

Epoch's compliance department was out of control when I tried to add them to the mix.

They weren't happy with dozens of little nit picking things... on sites that have been active for years!
It finally became too much of a hassle and we did not add them.

We now deal with 7 different billing companies, Epoch will never be one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

And risk... Epoch takes on the risk of 1000's of Websites and being so, so do all of us.

Risks? I don't know anything about such a crazy concept. Risks. Pffft.

DWB · 09-20-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Not all merchant banks are the same.

So CCB may use one merchant bank that is very lax on what is allowed, and EPOCH could use one that has stricter rules. Same as Verotel, or overseas processors can have rules, or lack of rules, that U.S. companies do/not have to follow.

I have seen this myself over the years personally, and those kind of disparities do exist.

Yes, but Visa is Visa. They blame everything on Visa, not the banks.

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Yes, but Visa is Visa. They blame everything on Visa, not the banks.

Well, I can't speak to that directly other than to say that is just a rep scapegoating them and not explaining the proper process for third party processing, and how it works.

VISA is typically more lax then merchant banks, and not all merchant banks are the same.

DWB · 09-20-2009, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

The point is, that they are covering their ass.

Or... it's some nut job employee trying to find out as much info as he can about 2 of my girls. How does any of us know really know what the real reason is?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

They can tell their merchant bank/VISA they contacted you, and that you provided them documentation that the models are of legal age, and issue is closed.

Hey, if Visa contacted them, they can show me that email or document and we'll go from there. However, when Billy Bob from Epoch Support contacts me and says the models appear to be young, please forward my 2257 documents, they can pretty much FO.

DWB · 09-20-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Well, I can't speak to that directly other than to say that is just a rep scapegoating them and not explaining the proper process for third party processing, and how it works.

VISA is typically more lax then merchant banks, and not all merchant banks are the same.

Like you, I'm a straight shooter. Tell me how it is, don't sugar coat it or bullshit me. If it's the banks who say something, tell me that. If it's Visa, tell me that. If it's Epoch or CCbill's staff or they just want to break my balls, tell me that too. I will respect the truth. But don't just blow smoke up my ass and blame everything on Visa. I can see through that shit and it makes me lose all respect and trust. What's that old saying... "I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born last night."

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

when Billy Bob from Epoch Support contacts me and says the models appear to be young, please forward my 2257 documents, they can pretty much FO.

These are people you trust to process your sites, pay you and your affiliates on time, take care of your members and not share their information, built the foundation of your business on, and base your livelihood on,....

Yet you do not trust them?

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Like you, I'm a straight shooter. Tell me how it is, don't sugar coat it or bullshit me.

Amen to that shit BRO.

I agree with you 100%!

DWB · 09-20-2009, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

These are people you trust to process your sites, pay you and your affiliates on time, take care of your members and not share their information, built the foundation of your business on, and base your livelihood on,....

Yet you do not trust them?

Sure, the same as I trusted Globill and Ibill, who fucked me for 1000s of dollars.

Trusting a company with a members CC is not the same as trusting some guy who is asking for my models ID. That nut job employee is not going to stalk, rape or murder the site member. There is ALWAYS a freak in a group and no company is without faults.

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Sure, the same as I trusted Globill and Ibill, who fucked me for 1000s of dollars.

Trusting a company with a members CC is not the same as trusting some guy who is asking for my models ID. That nut job employee is not going to stalk, rape or murder the site member. There is ALWAYS a freak in a group and no company is without faults.

I hear ya.

I am not out to bust your chops bud. I am just trying to understand the DWB thought process on this issue. Right now I simply can't grasp the rationale for the mountain of the mole hill, but as I said before. It is your fight, ultimately, and your business.

So do whatever you like in that regard.

DWB · 09-20-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I hear ya.

I am not out to bust your chops bud. I am just trying to understand the DWB thought process on this issue. Right now I simply can't grasp the rationale for the mountain of the mole hill, but as I said before. It is your fight, ultimately, and your business.

So do whatever you like in that regard.

Yea, I know.

I disagree with it for a few reasons. I've also given them two options to get the IDs they require.

They will not budge on the issue, I know this, and that's OK. Honestly, I think they are a pain in the ass anyway and prefer to deal with CCbill. Though, we moved to Epoch as our #1 because CCbill scrubbed so damn much and we made more $ with Epoch.

I'll talk to them tomorrow and see what we can work out. I'm not against working something out, but for fucking sure I'm not just going to send them what they are requesting out of the gate. Maybe they can call a local Sheriff to be present when they receive the blacked out IDs (no name, addy, numbers or country of issue) and then dispose of them with him has a witness. Something. Or, it's time to walk yo!

rowan · 09-20-2009, 05:43 PM

Simple question to Epoch...

What is the minimum information required to confirm the legal age of these models? Will photo ID with *only* the photo and date of birth showing (everything else blacked out for privacy) suffice?

d-null · 09-20-2009, 05:44 PM

major respect for DWB

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 09-20-2009, 05:50 PM

Please post pix of the two ladies in question...

ADG

Deej · 09-20-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

I hear ya.

I am not out to bust your chops bud. I am just trying to understand the DWB thought process on this issue. Right now I simply can't grasp the rationale for the mountain of the mole hill, but as I said before. It is your fight, ultimately, and your business.

So do whatever you like in that regard.

I already pointed out his thought process ealrier...

DWB = morals/saftey>profit

Its hard to believe in this industry but thats it...

Bototm line...

StinkyPink · 09-20-2009, 06:01 PM

This thread is definately a good read. I just spent the last hour going through every post.

I am curious if this lamp you are so fond of has a genie in it by chance? Why anyone would value a lamp over their business is beyond me.

At any rate, I see both sides of the story, but I also think DWB is right. However... I believe that if in fact there is something in the Epoch TOS (which hasn't been stated factly yet) then that part of the contract should be changed.

Otherwise I would say that blacking everything out besides the photo and age would be fine, but DWB has a point (at least in his case) about blacking out country, which would void proof of government issue.

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej

I already pointed out his thought process ealrier...

DWB = morals/saftey>profit

Its hard to believe in this industry but thats it...

Bototm line...

Trying to keep the thread love going eh?

As for the DWB thought process, I prefer to hear it from him directly Birkenstock.

d-null · 09-20-2009, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Trying to keep the thread love going eh?

As for the DWB thought process, I prefer to hear it from him directly Birkenstock.

your avatar doesn't "fit" you for some reason, maybe I'm just not used to it yet

Nick_Merlot · 09-20-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagcam

If the content is more than 2 years old as stated, then the chances are that the ID in question is a paper Thai ID card that is written in Thai including the date of birth, and without checking with the Thai authorities I doubt anybody would be able to conclusivey verify if it was genuine or not.

At that time, even genuine ID cards looked like they had been done on an etch a sketch and put through the washing machine. The newer ones are in plastc form, have thai and English, and also contain a chip, but more than two years ago very few had them.

Excellent point. DWB hit me up, I'll make you one. Shit, I'll make you a few for different countries with blank photo spots so you can use them as needed.

I think Epoch is spending their time wisely by harassing you instead of the 'girlfriend' sites. /sarcasm

TheDoc · 09-20-2009, 06:07 PM

Is it hard for you people to believe that when you do business with others, they take on risk, for sure in situations like Epoch?

I can't see how any, real business person, is going to tell me that they can't see why epoch doesn't take on extreme risk, and probably should ask for this while doing spot checks and how they are in the rights to ask this.

I respect a person for choosing who they want to do business with and why.. it's your business, mad respect.

But... if in the same time, I can't see how equal respect can't be given to Epoch for supporting our entire Industry and Community that uses them. Making sure they will be around when, stupid shit, goes down... I can support blindly when it's my business on the line too.

d-null · 09-20-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Is it hard for you people to believe that when you do business with others, they take on risk, for sure in situations like Epoch?

I can't see how any, real business person, is going to tell me that they can't see why epoch doesn't take on extreme risk, and probably should ask for this while doing spot checks and how they are in the rights to ask this.

I respect a person for choosing who they want to do business with and why.. it's your business, mad respect.

But... if in the same time, I can't see how equal respect can't be given to Epoch for supporting our entire Industry and Community that uses them. Making sure they will be around when, stupid shit, goes down... I can support blindly when it's my business on the line too.

good points, Doc, respecting one shouldn't imply disrespect of the other, this seems to be one of those issues that have well meaning intentions on both sides I believe

itto · 09-20-2009, 06:22 PM

So let's see.. a legit company you do business with is asking you for some id's in order see if everything's ok.

Why you assume there's some sort of rogue employee wanting to stalk the girls with that information is totally and i mean TOTALLY beyond me.

Is it because of the general paranoia and "wild west" attitude in the adult biz?
If this was mainstream, would you also act like this?
..What if your normal bank calls you up and asks for some papers, would you also ask for their employee's background / nda / etc?!

Don't get me wrong, i'm just trying to understand this...you do business, epoch does business. Your stuff is legit, theirs is.. they request some kind of proof, why not cooperate? That's a fucking standard way of doing business.

directfiesta · 09-20-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDoc

If I send a C&D to a hosting company, they will make you show proof. Or I will own that hosting company.

Nope .... You will need to send a DMCA with proof that YOU own the content, without any doubt. Till then, your C&D will be used as paper napkins.

On the other hand, if a hosting company decides, in respect to his own business plan , to terminate that account, he will have to do it accordingly to his TOS.

Deej · 09-20-2009, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Trying to keep the thread love going eh?

As for the DWB thought process, I prefer to hear it from him directly Birkenstock.

HOW DARRRRRE YOU !

Call me a mother fuckin birkenstock you foot fucker!!!

although it was funny youre off!

Deej · 09-20-2009, 06:34 PM

you know.... i might be a birkenstock...

directfiesta · 09-20-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

I don't have access to that contract to see if that's the case or not. It very well may be, and if so, then I will just have to not use them.

I will take a look at my contract with Epoch to see ... Must be like 3 years old ( Paycom at the time ) .... so probably the same as the one of DWB.

Robbie · 09-20-2009, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itto

Is it because of the general paranoia and "wild west" attitude in the adult biz?
If this was mainstream, would you also act like this?

DWB pointed out earlier that there is a DEATH penalty for many of the Asian countries he shoots in if these girls were ever accused of shooting porn. And in the case of the 2 girls in question...one of them is Cuban and was shot in Cuba and would face jail time if it was discovered she had shot porn.

I'm kinda wondering what does Epoch or any other third party biller do in cases where it is illegal in the country in question to give out another person's ID because of privacy laws? What do you do about that Epoch?

I've never been to a gf site before today by the way. But I googled up girlfriend sex and found a ton of them. And Epoch and CC Bill are right there processing the hell out of completely undocumented content.
What's the answer on that one Epoch?

And like Dirty D...I too get very annoyed by third party billers telling me what I can and can't do on my own website. And "no" I'm not talking about anything "illegal" or even "questionable"...I'm talking about nit-picking STUPID shit that is none of their business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sly

If you think hosting companies are going to let illegal content or questionable content run rampant on their servers you are nuts.

You know I have wondered about this for years. When I first got on the internet in the mid 1990's there was already underage porn everywhere. And apparently there still is. And some of it is downright horrible with little kids and even toddlers.
And we all hear that hosting companies would never tolerate it. And yet it apparently still exists and has a huge fan base. And somebody is processing the money for it too and accepting VISA. How the hell can that be?

area51 - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-20-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

DWB pointed out earlier that there is a DEATH penalty for many of the Asian countries he shoots in if these girls were ever accused of shooting porn. And in the case of the 2 girls in question...one of them is Cuban and was shot in Cuba and would face jail time if it was discovered she had shot porn.

I'm kinda wondering what does Epoch or any other third party biller do in cases where it is illegal in the country in question to give out another person's ID because of privacy laws? What do you do about that Epoch?

I've never been to a gf site before today by the way. But I googled up girlfriend sex and found a ton of them. And Epoch and CC Bill are right there processing the hell out of completely undocumented content.
What's the answer on that one Epoch?

And like Dirty D...I too get very annoyed by third party billers telling me what I can and can't do on my own website. And "no" I'm not talking about anything "illegal" or even "questionable"...I'm talking about nit-picking STUPID shit that is none of their business.

You know I have wondered about this for years. When I first got on the internet in the mid 1990's there was already underage porn everywhere. And apparently there still is. And some of it is downright horrible with little kids and even toddlers.
And we all hear that hosting companies would never tolerate it. And yet it apparently still exists and has a huge fan base. And somebody is processing the money for it too and accepting VISA. How the hell can that be?

I usually think you're a tool but nice post.

Robbie · 09-20-2009, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by area51

I usually think you're a tool but nice post.

I could really give a fuck what you think.

area51 - BANNED FOR LIFE · 09-20-2009, 06:53 PM

lulz.

make some more money off your wife getting fucked by other guys

Deej · 09-20-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by area51

lulz.

make some more money off your wife getting fucked by other guys

What makes you think thats his wife?

Robbie · 09-20-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej

What makes you think thats his wife?

'Cause it is and she's a big tit whore.

Pay no attention to that clown. This is a very interesting business thread and I have no indication that area51 is even in this business. So I could care less what he thinks.

And none of that is important anyway. I don't want to see the thread jacked. So I'm just gonna ignore him.

_Richard_ · 09-20-2009, 07:18 PM

understand where you're coming from regarding the privacy of models who reside in countries that will jail them for life if anyone found out, but i would say blacking out all info but the picture and DOB would be sufficient for verification with both parties concerns in mind

Deej · 09-20-2009, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

'Cause it is and she's a big tit whore.

Pay no attention to that clown. This is a very interesting business thread and I have no indication that area51 is even in this business. So I could care less what he thinks.

And none of that is important anyway. I don't want to see the thread jacked. So I'm just gonna ignore him.

f you werent aware its Justin, the local board whore so he says damn near anything contradictory if it dosnt absolutely suite his fancy....

I have met you both and I dont give a shit what whos where... what?! those big tits thrown in your face make you not give a SHiiiit!

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej

those big tits thrown in your face make you not give a SHiiiit!

Do they make your eyes pop out of your head, and your socks fly out of y'er Birkenstock's?

Deej · 09-20-2009, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Do they make your eyes pop out of your head, and your socks fly out of y'er Birkenstock's?

I find it creepy that you would know that I would wear socks with my birkenstocks...

GAMEFINEST · 09-20-2009, 08:51 PM

not sure why they would ask for that ...

Barefootsies · 09-20-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej

I find it creepy that you would know that I would wear socks with my birkenstocks...

Must be you find it creepy people have any king of memory, and can remember you, yourself, bringing this up in conversation. That you are a Pacific Northwestern, sock and sandal wearing, Birkenstock, mofo.

Hence the reference.

Iron Fist · 09-20-2009, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

These are people you trust to process your sites, pay you and your affiliates on time, take care of your members and not share their information, built the foundation of your business on, and base your livelihood on,....

Yet you do not trust them?

LOL... there's more truth in this sentence that explains the industry as a whole than I think even they know. Fuck the members, fuck the affiliates, fuck everyone, except the model.

So true on so many levels, I can't believe I never saw this before...

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 09-20-2009, 09:17 PM

Must have pix of the models in question, to pass moral judgement upon, and rub one out to, prior to going to bed - please...

ADG

Deej · 09-20-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefootsies

Must be you find it creepy people have any king of memory, and can remember you, yourself, bringing this up in conversation. That you are a Pacific Northwestern, sock and sandal wearing, Birkenstock, mofo.

Hence the reference.

Even though I have never worn a birkenstock in my life... you are quite observant nonetheless...

It was one show and Im scorned for life...

AaliyahLove · 09-20-2009, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

Dude, I have had MEMBERS, go to cities in other countries, with photos in hands and look for these girls. A few of them have been found!!! THIS SHIT HAPPENS!!!! Guys are fucking OUT OF CONTROL when it comes to pussy.

That's what I'm saying! No chances. It's not worth it. If they NEED the IDs, get the FBI to accompany you and visit the address for that content on my 2257 page.

It has happened, to so many models, I have heard sooo many crazy stories, DWB is right, you just NEVER KNOW! It think it's really commendable of you to protect your models DWB, I really respect you for what you are doing here!

pornjudge · 09-20-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyWhiteBoy

But who supervises them with this information? How can THEY be trusted? So what, some guy at Epoch turns out to be a kook, he stalks one of the girls, rapes her or worse, and if anyone even ties it to him, Epoch just fires him and keeps on trucking.

No fucking way. Give some unknown guy YOUR personal information if you are so comfy with it. You're a sexy gurl, you should not have anything to worry about, right? I mean, they bill for our sites, why would they have freaks working there?

Ok, we got your point;) why are you so paranoid? They also have a job to do, what if the person in question who is asking you for the documents gets fired because he is not doing is job, will you offer him a job? Did you read their TOS, i'm sure they are aloud to ask you for it. Its up to you to give it or not but if the TOS states they are aloud, well you have no choice to give it to them or like you said move to ccbill... I bet ccbill have the same rules also. So what are you going to do when ccbill ask you also? go to ibill

and big chances you will get screwed by them, so better go with option 1 and give them the info, after all they are paying you;) and that's how you pay your models with Epoch sending you cheques!

I have to give you

thumbs up though for trying to protect your models... Ya Pimp you!

Deej · 09-20-2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornjudge

Ok, we got your point;) why are you so paranoid? They also have a job to do, what if the person in question who is asking you for the documents gets fired because he is not doing is job, will you offer him a job? Did you read their TOS, i'm sure they are aloud to ask you for it. Its up to you to give it or not but if the TOS states they are aloud, well you have no choice to give it to them or like you said move to ccbill... I bet ccbill have the same rules also. So what are you going to do when ccbill ask you also? go to ibill

and big chances you will get screwed by them, so better go with option 1 and give them the info, after all they are paying you;) and that's how you pay your models with Epoch sending you cheques!

I have to give you

thumbs up though for trying to protect your models... Ya Pimp you!

you didnt read the whole thread did you?

pornjudge · 09-20-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deej

you didnt read the whole thread did you?

Dont have time to read the whole thread, have work to do. I just replied on what he is saying.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude · 09-20-2009, 11:46 PM

Playing the devil's advocate here...

Post some pix of the 18+ year old models that you have documentation on, but don't want to provide redacted ID's of (in order to satisfy the requirements of the people that process your transactions).

While I also question authority on a regular basis, and I understand your protectiveness of your models, Rand from Epoch appears to have validated the request from his company (it is not a rogue stalker employee seeking your proof of age on specific models for nefarious purposes).

Put another way, Epoch appears to be doing it's due diligence in order to ensure that they can continue processing transactions on behalf of adult industry companies.

While we're on the topic, what is your rationale and justification for shooting porn in countries where pornography is illegal?

ADG

09-20-2009, 05:50 PM	#168
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	Please post pix of the two ladies in question... ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

09-20-2009, 06:07 PM	#174
TheDoc Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Currently Incognito Posts: 13,827	Is it hard for you people to believe that when you do business with others, they take on risk, for sure in situations like Epoch? I can't see how any, real business person, is going to tell me that they can't see why epoch doesn't take on extreme risk, and probably should ask for this while doing spot checks and how they are in the rights to ask this. I respect a person for choosing who they want to do business with and why.. it's your business, mad respect. But... if in the same time, I can't see how equal respect can't be given to Epoch for supporting our entire Industry and Community that uses them. Making sure they will be around when, stupid shit, goes down... I can support blindly when it's my business on the line too. __________________ ~TheDoc - ICQ7765825 It's all disambiguation

09-20-2009, 06:22 PM	#176
itto Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: world wide Posts: 1,363	So let's see.. a legit company you do business with is asking you for some id's in order see if everything's ok. Why you assume there's some sort of rogue employee wanting to stalk the girls with that information is totally and i mean TOTALLY beyond me. Is it because of the general paranoia and "wild west" attitude in the adult biz? If this was mainstream, would you also act like this? ..What if your normal bank calls you up and asks for some papers, would you also ask for their employee's background / nda / etc?! Don't get me wrong, i'm just trying to understand this...you do business, epoch does business. Your stuff is legit, theirs is.. they request some kind of proof, why not cooperate? That's a fucking standard way of doing business. __________________

09-20-2009, 06:34 PM	#179
Deej I make pixels work Industry Role: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: I live here... Posts: 24,386	you know.... i might be a birkenstock... __________________ Deej's Designs n' What Not Hit me up for Design, CSS & Photo Retouching Icq#30096880

09-20-2009, 08:51 PM	#191
GAMEFINEST Make STACK$ Industry Role: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: sexy time Posts: 14,436	not sure why they would ask for that ... __________________ Compound interest.

09-20-2009, 05:14 PM	#153
DWB Registered User Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Encrypted. Access denied. Posts: 31,779	Oh... "Visa required it" they can say. BULL FUCKING SHIT. These companies use Visa as an excuse so much it makes my head hurt. How can Visa not approve something with Epoch or CCbill, but will approve it if you have your own merchant account? Either you use Visa or you don't. It's all 100% grade-a bullshit.

09-20-2009, 05:43 PM	#166
rowan Too lazy to set a custom title Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 17,393	Simple question to Epoch... What is the minimum information required to confirm the legal age of these models? Will photo ID with only the photo and date of birth showing (everything else blacked out for privacy) suffice?

09-20-2009, 05:44 PM	#167
d-null . . . Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NY Posts: 13,724	major respect for DWB

09-20-2009, 06:01 PM	#170
StinkyPink It's all goooood. Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Hoe Stroll Posts: 1,591	This thread is definately a good read. I just spent the last hour going through every post. I am curious if this lamp you are so fond of has a genie in it by chance? Why anyone would value a lamp over their business is beyond me. At any rate, I see both sides of the story, but I also think DWB is right. However... I believe that if in fact there is something in the Epoch TOS (which hasn't been stated factly yet) then that part of the contract should be changed. Otherwise I would say that blacking everything out besides the photo and age would be fine, but DWB has a point (at least in his case) about blacking out country, which would void proof of government issue.

09-20-2009, 06:53 PM	#184
area51 - BANNED FOR LIFE So Fucking Banned Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,164	lulz. make some more money off your wife getting fucked by other guys

09-20-2009, 07:18 PM	#187
_Richard_ Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 30,989	understand where you're coming from regarding the privacy of models who reside in countries that will jail them for life if anyone found out, but i would say blacking out all info but the picture and DOB would be sufficient for verification with both parties concerns in mind

09-20-2009, 09:17 PM	#194
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	Must have pix of the models in question, to pass moral judgement upon, and rub one out to, prior to going to bed - please... ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)

09-20-2009, 11:46 PM	#200
AsianDivaGirlsWebDude Purveyor, Fine Asian Porn Industry Role: Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 38,323	Playing the devil's advocate here... Post some pix of the 18+ year old models that you have documentation on, but don't want to provide redacted ID's of (in order to satisfy the requirements of the people that process your transactions). While I also question authority on a regular basis, and I understand your protectiveness of your models, Rand from Epoch appears to have validated the request from his company (it is not a rogue stalker employee seeking your proof of age on specific models for nefarious purposes). Put another way, Epoch appears to be doing it's due diligence in order to ensure that they can continue processing transactions on behalf of adult industry companies. While we're on the topic, what is your rationale and justification for shooting porn in countries where pornography is illegal? ADG __________________ Asian Diva Girls - Exclusive Photos and Videos Asian Diva Girls Affiliate Program (50% ccBill Revshare)