IllTestYourGirls

Lets see. Say it costs a family $1,000 a month to cover their family. They can not afford $1,000 now, but now Obama makes it mandatory, and with the CBO saying rates will go up, it will cost more, so now you really can not afford it. So now all it has done is add a 2% tax, because it cant be a fine because then you would need due process. 2% of 50,000 is $1,000... hmm whats more $12,000+ a year or $1,000?

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BFT3K

The problem with these "debates" is, much like tomorrow's summit, no one wants to hear the other sides' information.

As I no longer believe a single thing the righties spew any more, I admit I am guilty of this as well.

tiger

It's really sad that some people can't grasp what the #37 means and even worse while we are #1 in cost. Look at the countries we are behind.

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BFT3K

Do you want people to accept you as you are, or do you want them to like you?

IllTestYourGirls

There are conflicting reports.

Agreed

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IllTestYourGirls

Lots of people like me.

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BFT3K

WTF?! You are the one quoting CBO numbers!

Ridiculous!

IllTestYourGirls

So will Obama, according to you, doesnt mean I agree with them. I think the Obama plan will cost multiple times more than the CBO says. But the fact they say it will cost more says a lot.

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Joshua G

you agree, but you are using CBO to assert the republican plan is better?

i think our current system is a capitalist model, with a government component which knows no boundries in terms of spending money. it should be no suprise to anyone that the most profitable companies in the USA are health insurers & drug makers. they make their money charging as much as possible, & hold monopolies in the markets they control. if they could make more money insuring all people, they would. instead, they make the most money by kicking more & more of our people out of the system. So our system is great for wall street & the health executives, but a disaster for the people. Its just too bad the republicans are sluts to these wealthy winners instead of going the road of teddy roosevelt & busting these healthcare trusts that are strangling this nation. All the dems do is throw more government at the problem. either way we're fucked.

IllTestYourGirls

Just so you know Im not a heartless bastard in the last 5/10 years Ive given $XXXk to cancer research. Not counting the fundraisers I have run and my bad beat on cancer poker donation pledges.

BFT3k with your passion and drive you should start a non-profit or something. And I am saying that in all seriousness.

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IllTestYourGirls

Just because I think its better doesnt mean I agree with it. We have to options put on us. That in itself is unfair. I agree either way we are fucked.

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Joshua G

the health care fiasco is but a small example of a greater problem, which is that wealthy special interests run the government & now capitalism has become perverted. from retail, to health care, oil companies, food companies, hollywood studios, even porn, companies are consolidating into giant corporations that destroy competition & make greater earnings by reducing customer value. its great if your in the top 2% richest in the country. the other 98% are on a sinking ship.

kane

So you stand by the CBO numbers and findings. . . until they don't support your point anymore then suddenly there are conflicting reports and other influences.

Convenient

BFT3K

Joshua G

you see it when you buy a bag of potato chips & the bag is nothing but air. when oil companies push the price of gas to $4.50 a gallon. when a hospital visit costs $10,000 for a night stay, an xray, a few square meals & a prescription. when toyota saves $100 million by doing a limited recall with cooperation from the feds. when big porn names steal content & destroy the market for porn with tube sites. its truly disgusting the way the rich are gouging & killing the middle class. & the tool used to regulate these forces, to protect the weak from the strong, is totally for sale to the strong. Very sad.

directfiesta

Anthem Blue Cross dramatically raising rates for Californians with individual health policies
Policyholders are incensed over rate hikes of as much as 39%, which they say come on top of similar increases last year. State insurance regulators say they'll investigate.
February 04, 2010|By Duke Helfand

California's largest for-profit health insurer is moving to dramatically raise rates for customers with individual policies, setting off a furor among policyholders and prompting state insurance regulators to investigate.

Anthem Blue Cross is telling many of its approximately 800,000 customers who buy individual coverage -- people not covered by group rates -- that its prices will go up March 1 and may be adjusted "more frequently" than its typical yearly increases.

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/feb...hem5-2010feb05

Key words ; 39 % - Individual policies ....

37th on the list ... better then i toought... Next year : 42nd... and going down ...

Now, lets get THE DEMON ( ) throw a few insults and how he always backs his saying with links to subtabtial articles ( like he did here up to now ... lol ... ).

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

Joshua G

there does need to be a war in america. not liberal vs conservative, not tea parties vs the irs. The middle class needs to declare war on the wealthy executives that run these huge corporations, & the politicians in both parties that aid & ebet their robbery of this nations wealth.

Joshua G

its no surprise that goldman sachs executives now need security details with them to move around town...

NetHorse

#37, hahaha, a good liberal statistic that's only based on one factor of the entire population. Yes, make health care free for all, put it on the tax payers tabs. When I'm sick and dying waiting 6months to be seen by a doctor I'll have comfort knowing that the extremely poor and malnourished people who don't work and smoke crack all day got free health care. We won't be number 37 on the list anymore, YAY!! Socialized medicine is where it's at, we need to be more like the socialist countries.

I agree there needs to be changes, but not a complete overhaul that will create trillions in debt. Fuck Obama, and fuck Obamacare. If the gay ass democrats would propose a REALISTIC compromise maybe we can see some fucking progress.

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ICQ # 427013273

directfiesta

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...amid-criticis/



Have some of this, guys :

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I know that Asspimple is stoopid ... As he says, it is a FACT !

But I can't figure out how he can breathe or type , at the same time ....

baddog

There is no question that the Republicans have no plan. They do not want a plan. I can not say that I really comprehend [how they justify] why not. Pisses me off.

I mean, if Obama says "come let's talk about it in front of everyone", and the only response is, "it's a setup," something is fucked up.

baddog

ummm, $4b profit on how much of an investment?

Sausage

I don't know if many of you have paid attention to what Obamacare actually does .. it would actually be quite good for the Insurance companies and doesn't really solve much at all.

I identify very well with the conservative side of politics, though to deny your people health care is just disgusting. A government should provide education, protection (police, fire, military), sanitation services, at least basic health care and several other basic services. A healthy population works better and is more productive.

Joshua G

my feeling is that the republicans are convinced the democrats offer nothing but government solutions & they want no part of that. they were also burned by that obama meeting that became a PR win for him. so they have no incentive to work with the dems.

but thats no excuse why they never offer the public alternatives to democrat proposals. my guess is that they are so in love with free markets, & so despise government, they are not capable of thinking government can solve anything. its really quite ironic the way republicans hate on the institution they want to control. Can you imagine the CEO of Ebay getting the job by hating Ebay?

will76

Health care reform and obama's govt run health care are not the same thing.

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BFT3K

Good points, and to be clear, I would like a single payer plan and/or a public option and/or medicare for all.

If the current plan has any chance whatsoever, it is through a simple majority vote, through reconciliation.

At that point why the fuck is Obama selling out so fucking far to the right, and the insurance companies?

I like Obama, and I am 100% behind healthcare reform, but I don't worship him. He was the better option at the time.

If he grows a pair, maybe he'll get re-elected, but if he plays so far to the center right that he loses his base, he has no chance. He will not win any support from the right, no matter what he does - even if it is exactly what they claim they want him to do.

Joshua G

obama has no chance of losing 2012. the repubs are destined to nominate Palin. Celebrity is so important now, nobody can stop her.

kane

I have a feeling that they will be writing a new bill soon and if nothing else using reconciliation to get it passed. I think they need this going into the elections. Then we will find out exactly how people feel about it because it would far and away be the number one issue during the elections later this year. You know the dems will be saying, "We finally got it done." and the republicans will be saying, "You all just got screwed." People will express their opinion with their vote.

The Demon

Here's the difference. Private sector corruption and monetary mismanagement has limits. Government corruption and monetary mismanagement doesn't. I'll stick with the private sector and limit the government.

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Greed is Good

The Demon

There's a reason you're largely ignored in big boy conversations

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Greed is Good

The Demon

Hey, yet another smart guy in the 1% intelligent population on GFY.

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Greed is Good

kane

It is very hard to beat an incumbent president. It is almost impossible to do if he is popular and doing a decent job. If 2012 rolls around and the economy is looking decent, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are going well and he has made some front with health care and some of the other things he has promised, he will win easily. It won't matter who the republicans nominate and I wouldn't be shocked to see some of the bigger names sit it out.

However, if the economy is still in the crapper and not looking like it is improving and things aren't going well in Iraq and Afghanistan, he could be vulnerable. However, to beat him the republicans will have to find a top notch candidate and right now they can't even agree on what being a conservative really is.

The Demon

Owned....

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Greed is Good

The Demon

Ron Paul 2012. You're right that Obama would win ONLY because the Republicans are having a problem finding a candidate. But as it stands right now, Obama has virtually no chance of being re-elected, if polls are to be believed that is.

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Greed is Good

Joshua G

im not sure what limits private sector corruption has. look at the mortgage derivatives disaster. if the feds didnt bail out the street, the banking system had the potential to collapse & freeze up the entire economy from top to bottom. in smaller sectors like making pens, no biggie, but banks, health care, oil, the corruption in these industries is really killing the consumer.

The Demon

Lets start with the printing press. Lets start with the subprime mortgage failure. I agree the private sector didn't help it at all, but it was the government that unleashed hell. Personally, as someone who follows the Austrian School of Economics, I would rather have Wall Street and everyone who should have failed, fail. The bailouts only increased the destruction of the imminent collapse.

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Greed is Good

BFT3K

Private for-profit health care is out to make money. It is business. It is out to make as much money as it can, to satisfy it's shareholders, at the cost of the average Joe.

Without competition, and without restraints, these powers are not interested in you....

If they are allowed to drop sick people to save a buck, they will.

If they are allowed to double or triple their rates every year, they will.

If they are allowed to deny clients for any reason whatsoever, they will.

I can go on, but you get the idea.

In the end, healthcare should be a right, and if government has any purpose at all, it is to protect it's people, and this includes the health of its people.

I don't hear guys like you bitching about the defense budget, which blows all other government budgets out of the water.

Too bad the big corps have managed to brainwash so many, and convince them to vote and fight against their own best interests.

The Demon

If you're going to preach your hilarious liberal bullshit, at least try backing some of it up so it doesn't seem like an immature rant.

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Greed is Good

BFT3K

Why do I bother?

You really are a retarded child.

You cease to amaze me.

Joshua G

ideally, wall street should have been allowed to die. but practically speaking, no politician has the ballsack to tell wall street to suck it, because the public will blame washington for doing nothing while their bank burns down. Both parties united to bail out the street, so the repubs, who idealogically should have said no, went along with it.

a huge reason republicans dont take on entitlement spending is because the public demands everything from the government. solve all lifes problems, & dont tax me too much. only the tea party really wants to kill the entitlement dragon.

The Demon

I think I speak for everybody when I say nobody cares about your borderline retarded rants.


Btw, I'm pretty sure it's "You never cease to amaze me." But nobody expects common sense from a blubbering idiot such as yourself.

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Greed is Good

The Demon

I'm a republican but I don't always agree with their policies. I think they should come up with a better alternative to Obamacare, rather than just say "no no no no". But that's the way the game is played. The Democrats are just as guilty. However, if you really want to argue public sector vs. private sector in terms of overall destruction, I'll be more than happy to put up a case for the government destroying our economy far more than the private sector ever could.

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Greed is Good

will76

The #1 cause of bankruptcies in the US is from medical bills, from people who have inadequate or no coverage at all.

Even people WITH medical coverage still file for bankruptcy because they didn't get the proper coverage.


If you have a pre-existing condition one way to get coverage is to get a job at big company that offers group health insurance. You will not only get covered but get it a LOT cheaper than if you were to try on your own.

Health insurance is as expensive as you want it to be, at least the premiums part. It all comes down to the plan you want. Depending on your deductible, co-insurance, max out of pocket, co-pay, life time max, etc etc. If you want a $0 deductible policy for a family of 5 you going to be paying serious money. If you up your exposure on your deductible and co-insurance / max out of pocket then you can make your premiums as low as you want. You just need to save or have the money on hand in the event you go to the doctor a lot or for something major.

If you are POOR you have free health care, its called Medicade.

If you are OLD (over 65) you qualify for medicare, which helps with a lot of the costs if you can't afford to have your own health care.

Children up to age 19 who are uninsured get health insurance coverage through each state.

There is already a LOT of govt run health care in the US.

You also need to analyze the poplulation of the "uninsured" to see how many of them A. Make 3x more than the poverity level but choose not buy health insurance because a nice car was more important to them, B. are illegal aliens, C. are not insured but qualify for a govt health program but never signed up, D. Do not qualify for govt health insurance, can not get it through their work, make very little money and can not afford it.

IMO we need health care reform, but don't think govt run is the way to go. Look at Social Security, Medicade, etc... all govt run programs that are in serious trouble. Tort reform would be a good start. It would be nice to get the costs down for everyone...

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ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

BFT3K

I know the full quote you ignorant moron.

You are so dumb, you don't even know when you are being insulted.

kane

I have as much chance of winning the presidential election as Ron Paul does. The reason I say that is I firmly believe that Paul really doesn't want to be president and will never carry out a campaign that could give him a legit chance of winning.

That said, according to Gallup http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/ga...-approval.aspx Obama currently has a 51% job approval rating. Sure, on some things he rates lower and on other things higher, but overall that is decent.

Look back at 2004. I would have never thought that Bush would get re-elected. The economy was not doing well, we were marred in an unnecessary war in Iraq that was/still is costing billions not to mention many lives and he had pretty much turned all the good will of the world against us. Yet, he still won. Sure, Kerry was not a great candidate, but he wasn't horrible either.

Here is a Gallup poll showing if the election were held today how the votes would go down
http://www.pollingreport.com/2012.htm

It shows Obama winning against a generic candidate by a few points. When matched up against specific candidates he beats them all by double digits.

Obviously this is without those people even campaigning, so it might be closer than that, but then again it may not. Once people get to know the candidates a little more they very well may not like them at all. Which is why it is so hard to be an incumbent. At least with the incumbent you know what you are getting, you have take a leap of faith with the new candidate. As much as people say they want change in this country, most people really don't.

Add in that the country is still not happy with republicans and it makes it an uphill battle for them. I think they have gotten cocky. They won an election in Mass and won a few governor's seats and they think the country is ready to hand them over the reins again.

Joshua G

i totally agree with you there. the law is all powerful &, well, just look at iran. but whats happening today is that the healthcare system is broken. in the past, our government fought for the little guy (my favorite repub is teddy) & broke up the steel trust, the oil trust, these trusts were killing competition & engaged in predatory pricing. a similar racket is happening in health care, but the government is powerless to do anything to stop it. the dems have huge majorities but still cant pass reform. i know the repubs argue the reform consisting of more government is the problem. Its just a shame they can't break their addiction to special interest money & take on these big companies. theres really no excuse for the way the repubs are in bed with big corporations. they are so in bed they will sell out their own idealogy (bailouts) to make them happy. If the repubs can't recognize there is a role some goverment can play in solving problems, then we need a third party.

kane

The thing I have always loved about the republicans is that they argue for smaller government and say that more government is never the answer. Yet they don't ever seem to actually shrink the government when they are in power, in most cases they actually grow it. Hell, Bush added an entire new branch onto the government.

will76

Has anyone talked about what would happen IF Obama did get his plan put through?

This country / govt is so far upsidedown right now and in debt, plunging into debt deeper and deeper everyday. How are they going to be able to afford to give free health care to everyone, or most people?

((( Raise taxes ))) It's the only thing they can do. The majority of federal revenue is from income taxes. So how are they going to pay for "FREE" health care... raise income taxes. So you were paying "x" a month for your private health care, now the government raises income taxes and you are paying more in taxes a year then you were for health insurance and it is substandard to what you had before. But hey, you got "FREE" health insurance. It's not going to be just the rich that will have income taxes go up, its going to be the middle class too. We are already in a huge hole, throw in "free health care" and they going to be raising taxes on middle class too, to try to pay for all of this.

(Note) Nothing is free for most of us. You pay for it one way or the other. That person who wasn't paying for heath insurance before anyway, and doesn't make much money, then it will be a great deal for him. But for the rest of us, we will have worst coverage and at the end of the day we will be paying more for it.

They need to find a better way to make health care affordable other than charging us more one place to give us something for free some where else. It doesn't add up.

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Joshua G

exactly. i dont know what to call todays republican party. they dont cut any spending, they support stimulus spending at home (while opposing it on fox news). its disgraceful. i was a happy republican in 2001 but ever since the Iraq war, the prescription drug law & the runaway debt, I feel betrayed & the party is not republican by any definition of the word.

Joshua G

by all media accounts, obamacare does very little to control costs. i am really perlexed what the point of the bill is, other than to create more government bureacracy & provide coverage for all. This really isnt the best moment for universal government care. breaking up insurance monopolies, tort reform, regulating profit margins at insurance co.s & reducing medicare/medicaid fraud would go a long way, plus there would be more insured because coverage would be more affordable. too bad the repubs offer only small potatoes.