Healthcare - A Privilege Or A Right? - Page 3 - GoFuckYourself.com

Minte · 03-17-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smutnut

In all fairness, this should be worked into the taxes we are paying right now and politcians salaries should be cut until they can figure out how to balance the budget without raising taxes any.

But I still think everyone should have doctors and hospitals the same way we have police and firemen. There is absolutely no difference except that the people have to be better trained and thus compensated at a higher level. There is no reason for their goal to be becoming filthy rich, in fact that should be discouraged in that profession.

The problem is it won't be fair. The initial target is more tax for the wealthy. But we all know that the middle class will end up footing the bill.

Brujah · 03-17-2010, 05:05 PM

Obama just needs to say, "You're either with us, or AGAINST us" and declare them all terrorists.

xmas13 · 03-17-2010, 05:07 PM

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_Most_Popular

"For the first time, government programs next year will account for more than half of all U.S. health-care spending, federal actuaries predict, as the weak economy sends more people into Medicaid and slows growth of private insurance."

rogueteens · 03-17-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CosmicTang

Funny, I was just remembering that as I was reading the thread. It was Jude Law and he was quite specific about the doctors not liking the system because they didn't make very much money and had to work long hours.

Jude LAw is living in a hollywood dreamland, British doctors are VERY well paid, most people would love to have an income like theirs, granted, the training is long and hard but the benefits at the end are worth reaping. people like them should think about manual workers who work just as long but for all their lives *(ot just for the training period) for much less money.

The Demon · 03-17-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xmas13

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_Most_Popular

"For the first time, government programs next year will account for more than half of all U.S. health-care spending, federal actuaries predict, as the weak economy sends more people into Medicaid and slows growth of private insurance."

It's the end game with this administration.

xmas13 · 03-17-2010, 05:30 PM

The Demon · 03-17-2010, 05:38 PM

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...5GKEQD9EGLNDO0

Robbie · 03-17-2010, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

All insurance is paid when you "don't need it". So when you do need it the cost of putting it right is covered.

You missed my point. When I was younger you didn't really NEED to have health insurance. Even 20 years ago you could just go to the fucking doctor. I never had health insurance until the last few years.

When I went to the doctor I paid for it out of pocket. When my son had to have his appendix removed in 1985 I paid for the operation out of my pocket (and I was NOT well off financially...I played in a band for a living).

Point is...doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies charge us here in the U.S. 10 times more than in any other country in the world.

These days in the United States you HAVE to have insurance...because nobody is rich enough to go to the goddamn doctor.

And you better believe that IF doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies had a pact with YOUR govt. and all the other govt. that have universal health care like the devils bargain they have here in the U.S., your govt. would be bankrupted and that entire system would crumble.

The problem we have here is that our healthcare is overpriced to the point that it can not be paid for by anyone.

Our govt. is so tied up with insurance companies that it has screwed us all.

Hell, I'm looking at my auto insurance premiums. I have 5 cars. I'm paying over THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS every 6 months for fucking car insurance!!! That is so outrageous.

I remember in the 1980's living in Fla. and I paid $29.99 a month for liability insurance for my vehicle.

And the state govt. works hand in hand with the insurance companies on auto insurance. The traffic cops are little more than money collectors for them. They pull you over...oh, you did 42 in a 35 zone...and guess what? They instantly send the info to your insurance agency which now raises your premium even fucking more.

This whole thing is stealing. Plain and simple.

Govt paid healthcare works for your country. But it isn't going to work in the U.S. with all this corruption and money grabbing.

What is needed is to put an end to the price gouging by pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and the hospital industry and bring prices down to the levels of every other industrialized nation. When that is done...we won't NEED health insurance.

We will do what everybody did since the beginning of time...pay for it ourselves.

BFT3K · 03-17-2010, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

It's the end game with this administration.

Save that line somewhere on your hardrive.

This way you can copy and paste it into your posts for the next 7 years.

The Demon · 03-17-2010, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Save that line somewhere on your hardrive.

This way you can copy and paste it into your posts for the next 7 years.

I wouldn't need to. I foresee you committing suicide when Obama loses in a landslide.

kane · 03-17-2010, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You missed my point. When I was younger you didn't really NEED to have health insurance. Even 20 years ago you could just go to the fucking doctor. I never had health insurance until the last few years.

When I went to the doctor I paid for it out of pocket. When my son had to have his appendix removed in 1985 I paid for the operation out of my pocket (and I was NOT well off financially...I played in a band for a living).

Point is...doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies charge us here in the U.S. 10 times more than in any other country in the world.

These days in the United States you HAVE to have insurance...because nobody is rich enough to go to the goddamn doctor.

And you better believe that IF doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies had a pact with YOUR govt. and all the other govt. that have universal health care like the devils bargain they have here in the U.S., your govt. would be bankrupted and that entire system would crumble.

The problem we have here is that our healthcare is overpriced to the point that it can not be paid for by anyone.

Our govt. is so tied up with insurance companies that it has screwed us all.

Hell, I'm looking at my auto insurance premiums. I have 5 cars. I'm paying over THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS every 6 months for fucking car insurance!!! That is so outrageous.

I remember in the 1980's living in Fla. and I paid $29.99 a month for liability insurance for my vehicle.

And the state govt. works hand in hand with the insurance companies on auto insurance. The traffic cops are little more than money collectors for them. They pull you over...oh, you did 42 in a 35 zone...and guess what? They instantly send the info to your insurance agency which now raises your premium even fucking more.

This whole thing is stealing. Plain and simple.

Govt paid healthcare works for your country. But it isn't going to work in the U.S. with all this corruption and money grabbing.

What is needed is to put an end to the price gouging by pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and the hospital industry and bring prices down to the levels of every other industrialized nation. When that is done...we won't NEED health insurance.

We will do what everybody did since the beginning of time...pay for it ourselves.

Yep, not only is it expensive, but if you have insurance they dictate the type of care you get. Here are two examples: earlier today I took my mom to the doctors. Nothing special, just a regular check up. I was in the room with her because she was having some medicine switched around and wanted me to help her understand it. So the doctor does her thing then ends up saying, "I will type this up, then I have to go, I've been in here more than 30 minutes and if we try to bill for longer than 30 minutes the insurance won't pay." I ask why and she says, "The insurance companies don't think a regular visit should take longer than 30 minutes. If we bill for more than that they pass the extra cost on to you."

Example 2: A friend of mine has a hip problem. she goes to see a specialist who tells her she needs surgery, but the insurance won't pay for it unless she first gets a cortisone shot then does some physical therapy. The insurance dictated the treatment, even though the doctor knew it wouldn't work. They just had to jump through the hoops in order to get them to pay.

Vendzilla · 03-17-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

Yep, not only is it expensive, but if you have insurance they dictate the type of care you get. Here are two examples: earlier today I took my mom to the doctors. Nothing special, just a regular check up. I was in the room with her because she was having some medicine switched around and wanted me to help her understand it. So the doctor does her thing then ends up saying, "I will type this up, then I have to go, I've been in here more than 30 minutes and if we try to bill for longer than 30 minutes the insurance won't pay." I ask why and she says, "The insurance companies don't think a regular visit should take longer than 30 minutes. If we bill for more than that they pass the extra cost on to you."

Example 2: A friend of mine has a hip problem. she goes to see a specialist who tells her she needs surgery, but the insurance won't pay for it unless she first gets a cortisone shot then does some physical therapy. The insurance dictated the treatment, even though the doctor knew it wouldn't work. They just had to jump through the hoops in order to get them to pay.

Valid points to make about the present condition of the healthcare system, but there is nothing in the healthcare bill that will fix that

baddog · 03-17-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogueteens

Jude LAw is living in a hollywood dreamland, British doctors are VERY well paid, most people would love to have an income like theirs, granted, the training is long and hard but the benefits at the end are worth reaping. people like them should think about manual workers who work just as long but for all their lives *(ot just for the training period) for much less money.

How much do they make?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Save that line somewhere on your hardrive.

This way you can copy and paste it into your posts for the next 7 years.

You honestly feel that Obama is going to repeat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Valid points to make about the present condition of the healthcare system, but there is nothing in the healthcare bill that will fix that

The Demon · 03-17-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

You honestly feel that Obama is going to repeat?

You have to question his sanity and intelligence.

HandballJim · 03-17-2010, 07:09 PM

It should be a human right, but the system we have in place and in which we are used to... is more of a privilege. In my opinion this country moved from a race society to a class society...so poor you get basic healthcare, middle class next level, wealthy best healthcare. In my opinion there is no fucking way someone without a job should get better healthcare then me and my wife who work so hard. We both have insurance through our jobs...but getting creamed in taxes. (so a % of our taxes are paying for these lazy people)

But who are they kidding, everyone gets healthcare in America already. If your poor it's totally free, if your illegal just walk into any public emergency room...they will not send you away.

This is the worst timing ever for something like healthcare reform...how about government reform.

Blingbaby · 03-17-2010, 07:22 PM

Health, food, education should be a right in any civilized society, certainly one that brags so often of its democratic values as US..

The Demon · 03-17-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blingbaby

Health, food, education should be a right in any civilized society, certainly one that brags so often of its democratic values as US..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

I've tried so hard to find anything in the meaning of this word that deals with what you think should be a right and, well, I couldn't.

Blingbaby · 03-17-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

You missed my point. When I was younger you didn't really NEED to have health insurance. Even 20 years ago you could just go to the fucking doctor. I never had health insurance until the last few years.

When I went to the doctor I paid for it out of pocket. When my son had to have his appendix removed in 1985 I paid for the operation out of my pocket (and I was NOT well off financially...I played in a band for a living).

Point is...doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies charge us here in the U.S. 10 times more than in any other country in the world.

These days in the United States you HAVE to have insurance...because nobody is rich enough to go to the goddamn doctor.

And you better believe that IF doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies had a pact with YOUR govt. and all the other govt. that have universal health care like the devils bargain they have here in the U.S., your govt. would be bankrupted and that entire system would crumble.

The problem we have here is that our healthcare is overpriced to the point that it can not be paid for by anyone.

Our govt. is so tied up with insurance companies that it has screwed us all.

Hell, I'm looking at my auto insurance premiums. I have 5 cars. I'm paying over THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS every 6 months for fucking car insurance!!! That is so outrageous.

I remember in the 1980's living in Fla. and I paid $29.99 a month for liability insurance for my vehicle.

And the state govt. works hand in hand with the insurance companies on auto insurance. The traffic cops are little more than money collectors for them. They pull you over...oh, you did 42 in a 35 zone...and guess what? They instantly send the info to your insurance agency which now raises your premium even fucking more.

This whole thing is stealing. Plain and simple.

Govt paid healthcare works for your country. But it isn't going to work in the U.S. with all this corruption and money grabbing.

What is needed is to put an end to the price gouging by pharmaceutical companies, doctors, and the hospital industry and bring prices down to the levels of every other industrialized nation. When that is done...we won't NEED health insurance.

We will do what everybody did since the beginning of time...pay for it ourselves.

Exactly, don't treat healthcare like a tourist business and it will be fine. I don't need 5 star hotel treatment and I certainly should not have to pay medieval prices on easy to produce medicine. Bottom line, medicine IS NOT a business, and it's a sad culture that treats it as such, capitalism or not..

Minte · 03-17-2010, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blingbaby

Exactly, don't treat healthcare like a tourist business and it will be fine. I don't need 5 star hotel treatment and I certainly should not have to pay medieval prices on easy to produce medicine. Bottom line, medicine IS NOT a business, and it's a sad culture that treats it as such, capitalism or not..

Should the government take over the companies that design,engineer and manufacture the equipment used in healthcare. The pharmaceutical companies that spend decades and billions of dollars to create the medicines for the world. How about the schools that train doctors and healthcare personnel.

Healthcare is business. It's that pursuit of profit that drives the technology and research the population benefits from. Take away those profits and the healthcare industry will suffer badly.

BFT3K · 03-17-2010, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Should the government take over the companies that design,engineer and manufacture the equipment used in healthcare. The pharmaceutical companies that spend decades and billions of dollars to create the medicines for the world. How about the schools that train doctors and healthcare personnel.

Healthcare is business. It's that pursuit of profit that drives the technology and research the population benefits from. Take away those profits and the healthcare industry will suffer badly.

hmmmm let me think about that for a minute...

-----

Should the government take over the companies that design, engineer and manufacture the equipment used in our military. The research and development companies that spend decades and billions of dollars to create the deadly weaponry for the pentagon. How about the armed forces that train soldiers and defense personnel.

The military is a business. It's that pursuit of profit that drives the technology and research the population benefits from. Take away those profits and the defense industry will suffer badly.

--------

Oh yeah, the government will probably just screw it all up. The current healthcare system is all working just fine the way it is. Let's simply leave it for the not-for-profit insurance companies to sort it out for us.

They've only spent over $400,000,000 in lobbying and advertising to stop this bill (so far). I guess it must be a bad idea if the insurance companies are this upset about it.

baddog · 03-17-2010, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blingbaby

Health, food, education should be a right in any civilized society, certainly one that brags so often of its democratic values as US..

What do Democratic values have to do with healthcare?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blingbaby

Bottom line, medicine IS NOT a business,

Are we talking medicine or healthcare? And who would spend the money and take the time to go to medical school if they were not going to be rewarded handsomely for it?

The Demon · 03-17-2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

What do Democratic values have to do with healthcare?

I asked him to find me a reference on wikipedia..

Quote:

Are we talking medicine or healthcare? And who would spend the money and take the time to go to medical school if they were not going to be rewarded handsomely for it?

Amen.

rogueteens · 03-17-2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baddog

How much do they make?

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details...lt.aspx?Id=553

also see http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285
"The full-time occupations with the highest earnings in 2009 were ‘Health professionals', (median pay of full-time employees of £1,031 a week), followed by ‘Corporate managers’ (£745) and ‘Science and technology professionals’ (£698). The lowest paid of all full-time employees were those in ‘Sales occupations’, at £278 a week. "

HandballJim · 03-17-2010, 08:39 PM

right now on "NightLine" channel 7 they are talking about medicare fraud....its in the billions a year.

kane · 03-17-2010, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Valid points to make about the present condition of the healthcare system, but there is nothing in the healthcare bill that will fix that

You are 100% correct. Chances are the bill will only end up bogging the system up even more. Now it is run by people who are only worried about making a profit. When you are involved with anything government run then you are talking about people who only want to keep their job and the more work they can create for themselves the safer their job is so it is not in their interests to actually try to streamline the system.

kane · 03-17-2010, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Should the government take over the companies that design,engineer and manufacture the equipment used in healthcare. The pharmaceutical companies that spend decades and billions of dollars to create the medicines for the world. How about the schools that train doctors and healthcare personnel.

Healthcare is business. It's that pursuit of profit that drives the technology and research the population benefits from. Take away those profits and the healthcare industry will suffer badly.

If the government really wanted to make it fair they would allow people to act on their own and import drugs from other countries that sell them for significantly lower prices. If I run a business building a product I will go out on the free market and find the best parts vendor I can. If that means buying the parts I use in my product from Canada, or China or whomever, so be it. Citizens should be given that same free market ability. I can either pay $300 for the medicine from my local pharmacy or I can order it online and get the exact same thing for $90.

The reason this hasn't happened yet is because most of the people out there have some kind of health insurance that covers the cost of prescriptions so they don't really care how much they cost as long as they only have to pay a small co-pay. They also don't care how much the hospital bill is and how much they were overcharged for some things because their insurance is paying for it.

If the government doesn't want to regulate how much the pharmaceutical companies increase their profit margins on the drugs they sell, fine. But they should afford me the same courtesy and free market availability that they do any business in this country. They can't allow these companies to charge 300% more here for the same drugs and force me to pay that by not letting me use the free market to find a better price.

Also, much of the research these companies do is funded by the government. The government funded labs develop these drugs and then sell them to pharm companies. Yes, the pharm companies do develop their own stuff, but it is not as much as most people would think.

kane · 03-17-2010, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HandballJim

right now on "NightLine" channel 7 they are talking about medicare fraud....its in the billions a year.

Yep. My mom actually just got a check from her insurance company because they "accidentally" over-billed some things to medicare which caused my mom to have a higher co-pay. They were audited and forced to return some of her money.

The Demon · 03-17-2010, 10:48 PM

Kane, I appreciate how you look at everything from an objective perspective.

kane · 03-17-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Demon

Kane, I appreciate how you look at everything from an objective perspective.

I can often see both sides of an argument. With the current health care bill I see some good stuff in it, and I see some bad stuff in it. Like you, I'm just very wary of the government running anything because everything they touch ends up bloated, corrupt and not working nearly as well as it could.

One of the things that really gets me fired up is politicians going on TV and talking about the free market and how we have to let things fail if they will fail and let the free market run its course then forcing me to pay 300% more for my medicine because I don't get to use the free market and import it.

Paul Markham · 03-18-2010, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaneB

You do realize there are a lot of doctors that will not take Medicare and Medicaid because they said it pays to little and it takes a long time to get paid. If I was a doctor why would I want to get paid a shitty rate and have to wait for it. I would not accept any insurance and have my patients pay my rate in cash.

A good reason to change the system.

What few here don't understand is a National Health scheme is cheaper than a system run by private insurance companies. You end up paying less, getting the care and having the safety net of cover if anything goes wrong with your job situation.

Robbie · 03-18-2010, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

What few here don't understand is a National Health scheme is cheaper than a system run by private insurance companies. You end up paying less, getting the care and having the safety net of cover if anything goes wrong with your job situation.

I can see where that would be true. Unfortunately that is NOT what the "healthcare reform bill" is set up to do. What we are about to have here is every person in the U.S. being FORCED to buy insurance from private companies and then still having our taxes raised on top of that! I'd much rather go with singlepay health care system. But there was no way in hell that was gonna happen here. Too much money for the insurance, hospitals, and pharmaceuticals at stake. They are going to drain every penny that they can get from U.S. citizens.

Paul Markham · 03-18-2010, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

The reason this hasn't happened yet is because most of the people out there have some kind of health insurance that covers the cost of prescriptions so they don't really care how much they cost as long as they only have to pay a small co-pay. They also don't care how much the hospital bill is and how much they were overcharged for some things because their insurance is paying for it.

The insurance companies pay for nothing. Those insured pay for everything through their premiums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

They've only spent over $400,000,000 in lobbying and advertising to stop this bill (so far). I guess it must be a bad idea if the insurance companies are this upset about it.

Which is why they are spending so much to keep the status quo.

Paul Markham · 03-18-2010, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I can see where that would be true. Unfortunately that is NOT what the "healthcare reform bill" is set up to do. What we are about to have here is every person in the U.S. being FORCED to buy insurance from private companies and then still having our taxes raised on top of that! I'd much rather go with singlepay health care system. But there was no way in hell that was gonna happen here. Too much money for the insurance, hospitals, and pharmaceuticals at stake. They are going to drain every penny that they can get from U.S. citizens.

I admit I do not know the workings of the health care bill in the US. I'm talking about a State run health care insurance scheme over a private companies run one. If what you say is right I understand your objections to it.

Sausage · 03-18-2010, 03:16 AM

Your population is healthy, you have a better workforce. You treat people earlier and prevent future serious illness you save long term. Universal healthcare is not only something all governments should provide, but is also a wise investment in your people.

Being a business owner I tend to adopt more conservative stances on things, but I also see the need for government run education, protection, basic services and also ... healthcare. Its a no brainer.

cykoe6 · 03-18-2010, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Hey righties - Jesus was a fucking socialist, so try to sort out your selective hatred okay?

Indeed he was........ so that is why we nailed that fucking worthless hippie rabble rouser to a fucking tree.

12clicks · 03-18-2010, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minte

Should the government take over the companies that design,engineer and manufacture the equipment used in healthcare. The pharmaceutical companies that spend decades and billions of dollars to create the medicines for the world. How about the schools that train doctors and healthcare personnel.

Healthcare is business. It's that pursuit of profit that drives the technology and research the population benefits from. Take away those profits and the healthcare industry will suffer badly.

minte, you're trying to have a rational, educated discussion with those that are neither.
Most of the "free healthcare" advocates on this board are 20somethings with no life experience and failures. both who firmly believe the profit obama.

Minte · 03-18-2010, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kane

If the government really wanted to make it fair they would allow people to act on their own and import drugs from other countries that sell them for significantly lower prices. If I run a business building a product I will go out on the free market and find the best parts vendor I can. If that means buying the parts I use in my product from Canada, or China or whomever, so be it. Citizens should be given that same free market ability. I can either pay $300 for the medicine from my local pharmacy or I can order it online and get the exact same thing for $90.

The reason this hasn't happened yet is because most of the people out there have some kind of health insurance that covers the cost of prescriptions so they don't really care how much they cost as long as they only have to pay a small co-pay. They also don't care how much the hospital bill is and how much they were overcharged for some things because their insurance is paying for it.

If the government doesn't want to regulate how much the pharmaceutical companies increase their profit margins on the drugs they sell, fine. But they should afford me the same courtesy and free market availability that they do any business in this country. They can't allow these companies to charge 300% more here for the same drugs and force me to pay that by not letting me use the free market to find a better price.

Also, much of the research these companies do is funded by the government. The government funded labs develop these drugs and then sell them to pharm companies. Yes, the pharm companies do develop their own stuff, but it is not as much as most people would think.

This post is exactly why this legislation is seriously flawed. There is no disagreement that the healthcare system needs an overhaul.

Why should US citizens get a better deal in Mexico and Canada for pharmacy items. How about tort reform, allowing group policy holders to shop for health insurance on a national level. There is a list of common sense things that could be done to get the process started. Yet none of it seems to matter to the current administration. They want to tax us for 10 years to pay for 6 years of coverage. And at the end of 10 years,then what?

The Demon · 03-18-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

minte, you're trying to have a rational, educated discussion with those that are neither.
Most of the "free healthcare" advocates on this board are 20somethings with no life experience and failures. Both who firmly believe the profit obama.

qft......

Paul Markham · 03-18-2010, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

minte, you're trying to have a rational, educated discussion with those that are neither.
Most of the "free healthcare" advocates on this board are 20somethings with no life experience and failures. both who firmly believe the profit obama.

You cannot say it's free. It's paid for a different way and without insurance companies, drug companies and hospitals more interested in the bottom line getting a huge slice of the cake. The US is the most expensive place, I have visited, for health care. You're getting ripped off and some of you seem to like it that way.

Quote:

Your population is healthy, you have a better workforce. You treat people earlier and prevent future serious illness you save long term. Universal healthcare is not only something all governments should provide, but is also a wise investment in your people.

Being a business owner I tend to adopt more conservative stances on things, but I also see the need for government run education, protection, basic services and also ... healthcare. Its a no brainer.

Great post, the only flaw is you don't end up with companies making billions of pounds out of those forced to pay.

Minte · 03-18-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12clicks

minte, you're trying to have a rational, educated discussion with those that are neither.
Most of the "free healthcare" advocates on this board are 20somethings with no life experience and failures. both who firmly believe the profit obama.

That's a good point,thanks for the reminder.

BFT3K · 03-18-2010, 09:29 AM

Jobs bill getting signed today, and this first healthcare bill will pass on Sunday.

IllTestYourGirls · 03-18-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Jobs bill getting signed today, and this first healthcare bill will pass on Sunday.

How are those other stimulus bills working out for us?

Vendzilla · 03-18-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Jobs bill getting signed today, and this first healthcare bill will pass on Sunday.

Yeah, suppose to create 250,000 jobs? How many new claims did they have last week?

The FIRST healthcare bill, then they can go in there and take complete control of everything, one step at a time

The Demon · 03-18-2010, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Yeah, suppose to create 250,000 jobs? How many new claims did they have last week?

The FIRST healthcare bill, then they can go in there and take complete control of everything, one step at a time

LOL@BFT3K. It's been announced that the CBO has not come out with any kind of definite numbers, it's just the Democrats touting "estimates".

Btw, you have to have a strong economy to create ANY jobs, but I don't think Obama's stupid ass knows that. Bernanke certainly doesn't.

BFT3K · 03-18-2010, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

How are those other stimulus bills working out for us?

Keep your hate hat on buddy - you have 7 more years of this coming at you!

BFT3K · 03-18-2010, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

Yeah, suppose to create 250,000 jobs? How many new claims did they have last week?

Yeah, we were better off with the 750,000 jobs lost per month at the end of the Bush debacle. Good point!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vendzilla

The FIRST healthcare bill, then they can go in there and take complete control of everything, one step at a time

From your mouth to God's ears!

The Demon · 03-18-2010, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Yeah, we were better off with the 750,000 jobs lost per month at the end of the Bush debacle. Good point!

From your mouth to God's ears buddy!

As opposed to:

http://keithhennessey.com/2009/04/06...ion-has-saved/

I can just hear BFT3k's stupid ass saying "but it was Bush's fault!!"

IllTestYourGirls · 03-18-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Keep your hate hat on buddy - you have 7 more years of this coming at you!

Maybe you should take a look at the new electoral college projections. Looks like a lot of liberal states are losing votes while a lot of conservative states are gaining. Obama will be a one term president.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...election,_2012

And maybe even more when the census is done. People are fleeing failing progressive states.

IllTestYourGirls · 03-18-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BFT3K

Yeah, we were better off with the 750,000 jobs lost per month at the end of the Bush debacle. Good point!

From your mouth to God's ears!

And when Obama loses next election..... The Republicans will have control of your health care.... Why on earth would you want that?! God knows I fucking dont want Republicans anywhere near my doctor!

Vendzilla · 03-18-2010, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IllTestYourGirls

And when Obama loses next election..... The Republicans will have control of your health care.... Why on earth would you want that?! God knows I fucking dont want Republicans anywhere near my doctor!

I can't understand why you would want any politician near your doctor???

View Poll Results: Healthcare - A Privilege Or A Right?
Healthcare should be a privilege.	43	32.09%
Healthcare is a human right.	91	67.91%
Voters: 134. You may not vote on this poll

03-17-2010, 05:05 PM	#102
Brujah Beer Money Baron Industry Role: Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: brujah / gmail Posts: 22,157	Obama just needs to say, "You're either with us, or AGAINST us" and declare them all terrorists. __________________ Free Premium Domain Lists and Tools at Clickmojo.com For Sale: Obscenity.com

03-17-2010, 05:30 PM	#106
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	Last edited by xmas13; 03-17-2010 at 05:34 PM..

03-17-2010, 05:38 PM	#107
The Demon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,336	http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...5GKEQD9EGLNDO0 __________________ Greed is Good

03-17-2010, 07:09 PM	#115
HandballJim Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 4,024	It should be a human right, but the system we have in place and in which we are used to... is more of a privilege. In my opinion this country moved from a race society to a class society...so poor you get basic healthcare, middle class next level, wealthy best healthcare. In my opinion there is no fucking way someone without a job should get better healthcare then me and my wife who work so hard. We both have insurance through our jobs...but getting creamed in taxes. (so a % of our taxes are paying for these lazy people) But who are they kidding, everyone gets healthcare in America already. If your poor it's totally free, if your illegal just walk into any public emergency room...they will not send you away. This is the worst timing ever for something like healthcare reform...how about government reform. __________________ HOW I MAKE LOTS OF $$$

03-17-2010, 05:07 PM	#103
xmas13 Confirmed User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: GFY Posts: 5,176	http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...s_Most_Popular "For the first time, government programs next year will account for more than half of all U.S. health-care spending, federal actuaries predict, as the weak economy sends more people into Medicaid and slows growth of private insurance."

03-17-2010, 07:22 PM	#116
Blingbaby Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,079	Health, food, education should be a right in any civilized society, certainly one that brags so often of its democratic values as US..

03-17-2010, 08:39 PM	#124
HandballJim Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 4,024	right now on "NightLine" channel 7 they are talking about medicare fraud....its in the billions a year. __________________ HOW I MAKE LOTS OF $$$

03-17-2010, 10:48 PM	#128
The Demon Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 7,336	Kane, I appreciate how you look at everything from an objective perspective. __________________ Greed is Good

03-18-2010, 03:16 AM	#134
Sausage Confirmed User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 3,012	Your population is healthy, you have a better workforce. You treat people earlier and prevent future serious illness you save long term. Universal healthcare is not only something all governments should provide, but is also a wise investment in your people. Being a business owner I tend to adopt more conservative stances on things, but I also see the need for government run education, protection, basic services and also ... healthcare. Its a no brainer.

03-18-2010, 09:29 AM	#141
BFT3K Too lazy to set a custom title Industry Role: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Narnia Posts: 10,764	Jobs bill getting signed today, and this first healthcare bill will pass on Sunday. Last edited by BFT3K; 03-18-2010 at 09:33 AM..