A Major Reason Our Industry is Suffering

[Shap]

There are a number of reasons our industry isn't doing great. Here, in my opinion, is one of the bigger ones....

The barrier to entry has always been very low. That coupled with the nature of our business has allowed a number of unqualified people get into the industry. People that shouldn't be in business in the first place. They were able to make good money because it was easy to make money. Now that times are tough they are completely screwed. They never truly understood why they were successful or how to be successful. They are trying to re-create the past with no success and don't know where to turn. The old tricks aren't working and they've blown all the money they had and are now screwed.

Now more than ever it's easy to see who the real entrepreneurs and who got lucky.

What do you think?

[Amputate Your Head]

I think I agree.

[Mr. Romance]

I second the motion

[Shap]

I find it shocking how many site owners I know that have no idea why they were successful. I'm not saying I know everything and that I didn't have some luck (sometimes a lot of it). I do know however what made each of the sites I built from the ground up successful.

[justinsain]

That's not a reason why the industry isn't doing great.

That's a reason why some aren't doing great in the industry

[hypedough]

So very true, and I also hate when they don't stick to what made them money and start motioning off to other venues. Stick to what you know and what you're good at. All those that came in the business long ago and don't have a clue present day will have a rude awakening (if they haven't already).

[Shap]

Originally Posted by justinsain

That's not a reason why the industry isn't doing great.

That's a reason why some aren't doing great in the industry

It is a reason. Many of the LEADERS in this industry were leaders because they made bank. A lot of them had absolutely no idea what it was to run a business. There is a trickle down effect when their businesses take a hit.

There would be far more innovation in this industry if that wasn't the case.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by hypedough

So very true, and I also hate when they don't stick to what made them money and start motioning off to other venues. Stick to what you know and what you're good at. All those that came in the business long ago and don't have a clue present day will have a rude awakening (if they haven't already).

Yeah I know. That's soooooooooo Hard. I'm guilty of it as well. It's so easy to chase after the next hot project.

[roly]

THE major reason the industry is suffering is because people no longer have to pay for it.

[arock10]

well yeah

[BV]

You are way off.

The barrier is lower than it has ever been.

Hosting is cheaper than it has ever been.

Scripts are cheaper than they have ever been.

Information on how to put it all together is more available than it's ever been.

In the beginning you had to figure shit out on your own and fork out some substantial coinage each month for hosting, etc etc.

Now any flopdick can get a 99 dollar server and throw up 10,000 plus hosted flvs in a few hours and start making a few bucks.

Problem is these people never really made any serious money and if they can make a few bucks a day running a tube site (which costs them almost nothing), they just rinse and repeat creating more and more free porn.

Bottom line, the problem is there is too much free porn and it is easier than ever to sling out to the masses! (and the masses are eating it up)

[Shap]

Would real businessmen let their product get ripped off and do nothing?

[dropped9]

Originally Posted by BV

In the beginning you had to figure shit out on your own and fork out some substantial coinage each month for hosting, etc etc.

No kidding... I remember my first 3k hosting bill, I almost cried. LLOLOLOL

[dyna mo]

while the barriers to entry in this biz are minimal, allowing anyone to get into the biz and that has created our own downfall, the industry has always been based on giving the product away for free to make money.

i also do not believe that the success or failure of things separates the true entrepreneurs from the lucky.

[OTerror]

I agree Shap

[roly]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

while the barriers to entry in this biz are minimal, allowing anyone to get into the biz and that has created our own downfall, the industry has always been based on giving the product away for free to make money.

i also do not believe that the success or failure of things separates the true entrepreneurs from the lucky.

there's a big difference between teasing surfers with galleries on tgp's and even 1 minute video clips on mgp's and giving away full movies on tubes.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by roly

there's a big difference between teasing surfers with galleries on tgp's and even 1 minute video clips on mgp's and giving away full movies on tubes.

that's besides the point, fact is, we give shit away. a person can spend a lifetime jacking off to tgps/mgps and never once have to join a site.

tubes were the logical evolution of this.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

while the barriers to entry in this biz are minimal, allowing anyone to get into the biz and that has created our own downfall, the industry has always been based on giving the product away for free to make money.

i also do not believe that the success or failure of things separates the true entrepreneurs from the lucky.

Well said. The separation of entrepreneur from blind dumb luck is educated persistence. The entrepreneur learns from failures and adapts. The ones relying on luck alone will flounder in confusion hoping to get lucky again.

As Mr. Robbins puts it, there is no such thing as failure. 'Failures' are just the wrong way of doing something, nothing more, and a smart person will learn from that. Too many people allow failed methods to reflect on them personally, and that is a mistake.

[BVF]

Originally Posted by Shap

There are a number of reasons our industry isn't doing great. Here, in my opinion, is one of the bigger ones....

The barrier to entry has always been very low. That coupled with the nature of our business has allowed a number of unqualified people get into the industry. People that shouldn't be in business in the first place. They were able to make good money because it was easy to make money. Now that times are tough they are completely screwed. They never truly understood why they were successful or how to be successful. They are trying to re-create the past with no success and don't know where to turn. The old tricks aren't working and they've blown all the money they had and are now screwed.

Now more than ever it's easy to see who the real entrepreneurs and who got lucky.

What do you think?

I think that the barrier to entry was low for YOU also....So what difference does it make that others had it so easy?....Two if they die, it is STILL of no concern to you as long as YOUR check shows up every week.....

I also think that this whole thread is nothing more of a bravado post to satisfy your own pride and desire for attention...

[roly]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

that's besides the point, fact is, we give shit away. a person can spend a lifetime jacking off to tgps/mgps and never once have to join a site.

tubes were the logical evolution of this.

if a person wanted to watch anything more than video clips he had to join, now he can watch full movies, what is there to sell him after that other than dating.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Well said. The separation of entrepreneur from blind dumb luck is educated persistence. The entrepreneur learns from failures and adapts. The ones relying on luck alone will flounder in confusion hoping to get lucky again.

As Mr. Robbins puts it, there is no such thing as failure. 'Failures' are just the wrong way of doing something, nothing more, and a smart person will learn from that. Too many people allow failed methods to reflect on them personally, and that is a mistake.

for me, the top 3 qualities of an entrepreneur-

1. self-discipline
2. persistance (tenacity)
3. ability to take action.

the whole thomas edison things come to mind here, 10,000 attempts to make the lightbulb.


i'm liking your sig, Amp!

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

for me, the top 3 qualities of an entrepreneur-

1. self-discipline
2. persistance (tenacity)
3. ability to take action.

the whole thomas edison things come to mind here, 10,000 attempts to make the lightbulb.


i'm liking your sig, Amp!

10,000 attempts is more like OCD than tenacity maybe.... lol

[seeandsee]

i blame tubes

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by roly

if a person wanted to watch anything more than video clips he had to join, now he can watch full movies, what is there to sell him after that other than dating.

well, i can only go by what i know and for me, an entire scene is too long and filled with things that are not conducive to busting a nut. i don't like to whack off all afternoon- get it done and move on. so right click-->save via TGPs/MGPs and before you know it you have gigs of porn that is truly tailored to what you like. all for free.

no, we've conditioned our potential customers to expect free, whatever the length is is irrelevant at this point, we've taught surfers how to get off for free.

[Oracle Porn]

Originally Posted by Shap

Would real businessmen let their product get ripped off and do nothing?

I don't know you tell me....

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

10,000 attempts is more like OCD than tenacity maybe.... lol

hah, no shit eh. my entrepreneurial energy pales in comparison.

[justinsain]

Originally Posted by Shap

It is a reason. Many of the LEADERS in this industry were leaders because they made bank. A lot of them had absolutely no idea what it was to run a business. There is a trickle down effect when their businesses take a hit.

There would be far more innovation in this industry if that wasn't the case.

I see your point now.

So who do you consider to be a leader?

Someone who makes the most money or someone that takes the industry in a new direction whether it's good or bad.

It's all about selling the product and you can't be successful doing that when others are giving away the exact same thing for free.

Two things happened. The legitimate leaders gave away too much free porn for promotion and the shady leaders stole theirs and got away with it due to the lack of a proper and working global copyright law that's enforceable.

What the industry really needs is some new leaders to emerge and address the above problems.

[Quagmire]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

that's besides the point, fact is, we give shit away. a person can spend a lifetime jacking off to tgps/mgps and never once have to join a site.

tubes were the logical evolution of this.

People just can't seem to grasp this. There aren't millions of n00bs flooding to the internet replacing the people who found free porn like there was. The internet isn't the new undiscovered country like it was.

[Caligari]

A Major Reason Our Industry is Suffering

but do those things really make the industry suffer...or get better? The way I see it, if alot of people got lucky then lost their shit and don't know how to get it back, they move onto something else. This is a good thing because it's less competition.

Could it be true that now, in these far more difficult times than 10 or 12 years ago, the people who survive really wanted it in the first place?

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Shap

Would real businessmen let their product get ripped off and do nothing?

Nope. I sure didn't let that happen to me. And I recall you kinda made fun of me about it a little bit. Telling me that protecting my content would piss my members off. I knew from experience and common sense that having a membership that meant something (ie: wasn't already available for free) was one of the best things I could give to a member.

Delivering something that delivers EXACTLY what our targeted audience wants, doing so better than anybody else, and keeping it a valuable commodity by controlling the amount of it that's free has been what keeps CM's site kicking ass.

If only all the programs I promote were doing the same. As an affiliate of other programs since 1997 I've never seen such utter and complete carnage. Sales as an affiliate are getting rarer and rarer. If it weren't for my paysite business I'd be hurting really bad.

[Zuzana Designs]

I agree and great post!

[Paul Markham]

It's a bit late complaining now.

If there was an entry examine into the adult online industry I doubt if 5% of the people who entered the business at any time would of passed.

Also it's not just about knowing business. You have to know the product and the buyer. A lot of so called business men pissed off the surfer to such a level the customer thinks Tubes are a safer bet.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by justinsain

I see your point now.

So who do you consider to be a leader?

Someone who makes the most money or someone that takes the industry in a new direction whether it's good or bad.

It's all about selling the product and you can't be successful doing that when others are giving away the exact same thing for free.

Two things happened. The legitimate leaders gave away too much free porn for promotion and the shady leaders stole theirs and got away with it due to the lack of a proper and working global copyright law that's enforceable.

What the industry really needs is some new leaders to emerge and address the above problems.

Good post. But there are not and never have been any "leaders" in this biz.

Sure, the guys who made the most money were referred to as leaders and rightfully so because others aspired to be like them.

But nobody has ever really "led" anybody. And even if new "leaders" emerged...what can they do to "address" any of the piracy issues?

Not much.

The only thing that will actually change anything will be your point about the need for new global copyright law. And that is coming. None of us in the porn industry will have any effect on it at all. You can line up anybodies list of who they think are "leaders" in this biz and put them all together...and they won't be able to do anything about it.

I'm of the mind that only new legislation that catches up to the 21st century technology will be the real game changer. And those of us who are still standing when that comes to pass will be positioned to make a lot of money.

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by Robbie

...there are not and never have been any "leaders" in this biz.

Sure, the guys who made the most money were referred to as leaders and rightfully so because others aspired to be like them.

But nobody has ever really "led" anybody.

100% agree.

It's always been dog-eat-dog in this biz at the end of the day. We cooperate with each other, but nobody "leads" any of us anywhere. We all run our businesses the way we want. What would a "leader" do for us? You can't get 5 of us to agree on anything.

[CIVMatt]

No it's because you barely have to try to find free anything

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Sure, the guys who made the most money were referred to as leaders and rightfully so because others aspired to be like them.

How many of the "leaders" were people who started when it was easy and would never get off the ground if they started now?

I see few leaders and lots of copiers.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

100% agree.

It's always been dog-eat-dog in this biz at the end of the day. We cooperate with each other, but nobody "leads" any of us anywhere. We all run our businesses the way we want. What would a "leader" do for us? You can't get 5 of us to agree on anything.

I think we all have individual "leaders" in our own ways.

What I mean is this...For me, I was Ampland up until Nov. of 2006. I had a LOT of traffic, and made a LOT of money. So other people would come to my sites and look at what I was promoting because they knew the quality of traffic I had and knew that if I gave up a valuable piece of real estate on the main page...it would be because it sold well. And they would emulate that. Many times we'd find the entire category pages full of galleries ripped by other sites with the affiliate codes changed. They would basically just piggyback of my learning curve.

So tgp guys had their set of "leaders".

And then paysites and programs would (and still do) talk and set up deals to make money together. (remember when ARS and MaxCash were basically just a giant circle jerk of pop up traffic on their banners back in the 1990's?) So when somebody would come up with a way to make a lot of money...everybody else wants in too. So they copy it and implement it in their biz.

So cash programs/paysites have their set of "leaders"

Same can be said for every facet....from designers to tube owners and everything in between.

Not really "leaders" but sort of "the guy who figures out a new way to make more money first"

Irregardless, they can't really do anything of course. But they can "lead" the way and the smart ones will follow and begin to tweak whatever the "leader" did to make it even better.

[dyna mo]

dogfart

think about it.

[justinsain]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Good post. But there are not and never have been any "leaders" in this biz.

Sure, the guys who made the most money were referred to as leaders and rightfully so because others aspired to be like them.

But nobody has ever really "led" anybody. And even if new "leaders" emerged...what can they do to "address" any of the piracy issues?

Not much.

The only thing that will actually change anything will be your point about the need for new global copyright law. And that is coming. None of us in the porn industry will have any effect on it at all. You can line up anybodies list of who they think are "leaders" in this biz and put them all together...and they won't be able to do anything about it.

I'm of the mind that only new legislation that catches up to the 21st century technology will be the real game changer. And those of us who are still standing when that comes to pass will be positioned to make a lot of money.

I agree 100%

Imagine how the industry would be if piracy was eliminated and legitimate business owners limited their promotional materials to just a few shots with stars blocking out all the naughty parts

[Amputate Your Head]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

dogfart

think about it.

Not sure what you mean.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by BV

You are way off.

The barrier is lower than it has ever been.

Hosting is cheaper than it has ever been.

Scripts are cheaper than they have ever been.

Information on how to put it all together is more available than it's ever been.

In the beginning you had to figure shit out on your own and fork out some substantial coinage each month for hosting, etc etc.

Now any flopdick can get a 99 dollar server and throw up 10,000 plus hosted flvs in a few hours and start making a few bucks.

Problem is these people never really made any serious money and if they can make a few bucks a day running a tube site (which costs them almost nothing), they just rinse and repeat creating more and more free porn.

Bottom line, the problem is there is too much free porn and it is easier than ever to sling out to the masses! (and the masses are eating it up)

Weird cause I am sure that in the beginning I could get a free smutserver/kinghost/terra.es (damn they rocked) account put some bullshit gallery on it with a simple banner or textlink, submit it for free (no submit passes back then) and make a shit load of sales on a single gallery. Good times!

Thing is even though it might look easier now, with all the info out there and cheap bw etc etc, making the actual sale is not that easy anymore. And yes this is also due to the loads of free content out there BUT there is a big diffrence in todays internet. Back in the day people would get an AOL account and first thing they did was search for porn. These days the majority of people go online and first thing they do is setup a Facebook account, register for twitter, talk to friends on MSN, and at the end of the day when they might have a little bit of time left they look at some porn.

There is simply so much more to do these days on the internet than there was 10 years ago, so blaming it all on the free content out there is just not making sense imo. There are still affiliates (not talking sponsors) out there doing 100s of sales a day, and thats not because they are lucky (most of the times lol). Its because they know what they are doing.

Years ago the big TGP guys where king. They made shitloads of money however most never changed a thing, so now they are dying. Is it because they were lucky and had no clue what they did or did they make enough and stopped caring about it? Point is they are going down, others came in and took over. Blame the tubes all you want but in the end of the day they have all the traffic and still make a load of money.

Some of the old school guys always said why change a winning team, well if you don't adapt (there it is I said it) and change the way you market you willl not make it in todays world.

So yes there is a lot of free porn out there but there is also still a lot to be made.

Damn, this must be my longest post ever lol!!!

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

How many of the "leaders" were people who started when it was easy and would never get off the ground if they started now?

I see few leaders and lots of copiers.

You know...a lot of people always say that. It was "easy".

And yeah, around 2000 it was sort of easy I suppose.

But when I first started online in the mid '90's, it wasn't "easy" to get started. Yeah, once you understood how the whole thing worked...then you could make money much easier than now by far.

But it wasn't "easy" to get to that point. If it was, there would have been thousands and thousands of big tgp guys making the kind of money we did with AL4A and Ampland. But there weren't.

There were just a handful of us.

And then there were thousand of unsuccessful ones and mid-range ones.

Just like now.

There are only a handful of tube sites with real traffic. And thousands of unsuccessful ones.

It's kinda always been that way.

It's real easy right now to get in the business. But it's not easy for those unsuccessful ones to survive anymore for sure.

10 years ago I would have said that a guy running a free site and only making 4 figures a month was unsuccessful. If you weren't making high 5 figures a month and 6 to 7 figures a year you weren't in the game.

These days if a guy opens a free site...he's gonna be damn lucky to make 3 figures a month. lol

So they try all that SEO stuff and open 500 new sites and link 'em all around.

Bottom line is you still have to SELL something to somebody in the end. And that is tough to do when everything is being stolen and is free and the masses know it. At that point all the business sense in the world won't help you SELL porn. You might be able to use your business acumen to figure out ways to "monetize" the situation. But sell more porn to people getting it free? Now that's a more difficult problem.

[Agent 488]

the leaders in the biz right now are pirates and have more traffic than god.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by justinsain

I agree 100%

Imagine how the industry would be if piracy was eliminated and legitimate business owners limited their promotional materials to just a few shots with stars blocking out all the naughty parts

Dreaming is not going to solve anything.

[dyna mo]

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

Not sure what you mean.

dogfart ripped off pretty much all the interracial video that was available at that time putting it into its classic 4x4 picture scheme.

now it's the industry leader blacksonblondes, complete with service marks, trademarks, copyrights, etc.

[Barefootsies]

Originally Posted by Quagmire

People just can't seem to grasp this. There aren't millions of n00bs flooding to the internet replacing the people who found free porn like there was. The internet isn't the new undiscovered country like it was.

Well said. There simply is no one single boogie man (free porn, tubes, CC, xsales, etc..). Right now you have a perfect storm of a changing industry, credit card processing changes, free porn, educated surfer, changing internet, etc..

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Bottom line is you still have to SELL something to somebody in the end. And that is tough to do when everything is being stolen and is free and the masses know it. At that point all the business sense in the world won't help you SELL porn. You might be able to use your business acumen to figure out ways to "monetize" the situation. But sell more porn to people getting it free? Now that's a more difficult problem.

And that is the problem. Few people knew how to sell something or create something that was worth selling. That was why traffic was their king. They needed it because their selling/porn skills were low.

So today the problem is Tubes, so has anyone of our "leaders" thought of an alternative the customer will BUY?

[Roald]

Originally Posted by dyna mo

dogfart ripped off pretty much all the interracial video that was available at that time putting it into its classic 4x4 picture scheme.

now it's the industry leader blacksonblondes, complete with service marks, trademarks, copyrights, etc.

Rumor is even the Hun was linking straight into member areas back in the days ;)))

[Roald]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

....
So today the problem is Tubes, so has anyone of our "leaders" thought of an alternative the customer will BUY?

For us Live Cams are killing it right now, in a good way that is. Besides cams there is this program we push which is also credits based and people seem to LOVE it. Buying credits left and right all the time, and its not gambling lol

[Agent 488]

just as people used to look at the hun to see what was selling you can take a look at the ads on the traffic junky network to see what is selling in the age of free porn and social networking.