A Major Reason Our Industry is Suffering - Page 6 - GoFuckYourself.com

will76 · 05-13-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noe

Again, I said that there is a fallacy in the idea that just having exclusive content alone will make you $ and sales if there were no tube sites. And actually I know of a couple of membership sites (in the past year) that have created unique and innovative exclusive content of entirely new niches never really hit on before..that have been able to kill it in sales.

Just a matter of time and there will be a tube site for it and it their content will be stolen.

Barefootsies · 05-13-2010, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noe

I also have to note that many of my clients are now telling me that full scene tubes aren't converting as well for them anymore and that tubes with short clips are actually converting much better for their video membership sites.

That would be correct.

Argos88 · 05-13-2010, 01:52 PM

Shap, when you see a complete members AREA of Twisties, given away for free at sites like sharingmatrix, hotfile, pornbb or extreme-board, torrents, do you send a DMCA??

And do you get any response?? Do they take your stuff down??

and if they don't, what do you do?

will76 · 05-13-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Here's a dirty little secret for all of you (and since many of you already know this, please forgive):

4-5 minutes is the 'sweet spot' for converting membership sales on tubes. Anything shorter, just a tease (which can also work, sometimes); anything longer (those 10 - 20+ minute scenes you see everywhere) and the surfer justs fast-forwards or 'skips' to the hot spots that turn him on anyway, so in the end the surfer only spends 4-5 ACTUAL minutes watching/jerking it to that 20+ minute clip. So longer is not really 'better', just adds to the endless ocean of free shit.

STOP GIVING AWAY FULL SCENES would be a great place to start.

Lenght of time of the video is really irrelevant, it is the content on the video that is what really matters. I could put together a 10 min video that would basically be a strip tease for 9.5 mins and the last .5 she gets naked and just starts to do something right when it ends. And here is a tip for you, THAT is what will convert the best. Sure most people will bail and not stay to the end but if she does a good job of keeping them close, and getting them to hang on just a little more, and before they know it they invested 10 mins and now they really want to see what happens next. The KEY TO EVERYTHING IS capturing their time, the longer they spend on your site, watching your video, on your blog, chatting with the chathost, etc etc etc the more attached they become and the better chance you have of making a sale. For each of those things are slightly different actions/reactions for the surfer, but its the same basic concept and logic.

On the flip side if you show a 1 minute clip of hardcore fucking with a hot looking chick that fits their fetish perfectly, then they will be gone in about 45 second because they would have came, close out your site and never remember what the name was muchless come back or sign up.

Connor · 05-13-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

It is a reason. Many of the LEADERS in this industry were leaders because they made bank. A lot of them had absolutely no idea what it was to run a business. There is a trickle down effect when their businesses take a hit.

There would be far more innovation in this industry if that wasn't the case.

Ugh, you know I hate to agree with you ...

But damn, you're right here man.

The people you're talking about... some of them got picked up by MAJOR adult companies because it LOOKED like they really knew what they were doing. But, it was really right place at the right time. They had connections, lots of friends, sway in industry circles... precisely because of that money they made early on when it was easy.

And yup, not easy anymore. It takes work and patience, and more importantly, more money than ever before to stay in the game long enough, and produce something good enough, to start turning good profits.

Here's the thing though... I think we're kind of in a transition stage right now in the sense that companies are adjusting. Which ones will adjust in time, or adjust in relevant ways, we'll see.

One of the most important things we can do right now as an industry, IMHO, is stop screwing over the paying consumers. I credit Tom Hymes for putting this thought in my head: It's just insane for companies to find people who are STILL willing to pay for adult services, and then screw them. Charge them for stuff they didn't want, double bill, place all kinds of traps in the fine print. Wall Street can get away with that kind of behavior because they hold serious leverage over their customers. We have no such leverage and, in fact, customers have leverage over US. It needs to be about finding out what the real adult fans are looking for, and giving it to them -- and going above and beyond in the process.

That's not cheap to do... so we'll see how many companies can do that. Like I said, we're in transition, we'll know more in a year, maybe two.

Shap · 05-13-2010, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberAge-Dave

You have the power to try it on your tubes. You are the captain, you can hear us. Back the ship up and set a new trend. You will make more money then everyone else. Then you can come here and tell us how my idea has put an extra million dollars a month in your bank account and every other tube site will follow.

Especially on your Gay Tube. You know if a guy is Jerking off to a video with his Dick in one hand and his three minutes runs out and it says, join to see the rest of the video in HD, he is going to use his other hand to get the credit card out.

IT'S A NO BRAINER!

Two things.

#1 Anybody who takes that stand LOSES. It's that simple. There is so much competition in the tube space. It's very very difficult to continually grow a tube that doesn't have full length ripped clips. VERY DIFFICULT. Cutting back to 2/3 minute clips means you are not interested in being competitive in that space. If you aren't going to be competitive what's the point?

#2 GayTube is an entirely different market. Gay Surfers are still buying. We've had many videos that were 5 to 10 minutes in length result in 20 to 60 signups in one day to that sponsor. GayTube is growing every month in traffic, revenue and profit. It will be our company's biggest money maker. Why blow up a successful business model with a bright future?

I understand what you are saying. But at the same time I have to look at the reality. Stephan from XVideos is NEVER going back. YouPorn, RedTube, PornHub, XTube are all never going to drop back to <5 min clips. It's not going to happen. I have to look at Twistys and GayTube as two seperate businesses and make business decisions that set up each of them for the best long term outlook. Taking a strong stand on GayTube for the future of paysites is a backwards move imo. The short term and long term outlook for paysites is grim imo. No matter who you are it isn't pretty. The long term outlook for GayTube is very promising. I can't sacrifice that.

NOTE: Btw I'm just being 100% honest with you. I know I'll probably get ripped for what I just wrote.

Argos88 · 05-13-2010, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noe

I'm sorry-when i say "illegal tubes" I'm referring to torrents.

Also-are you aware of how recent rulings by multiple international courts are setting new precedents for anti piracy laws? The pendulum always swings the other way, as it is now, and the major torrents are being shut down.

As a business owner I've learned that the a ceo's job description should be "problem solver". If you don't like finding solutions for problems every day you go to work, and instead have a tendency to get stuck and focus on the problem, then you shouldn't be a business owner. .

I don't think they are really attacking the problem at all. There could be some cases against thepiratebay and others like mininova... and they stopped hosting adult content..

But Free Adult content is now being offered at dozens of rapid clones... Via forums... And those sites have every possible MEMBERS AREA in High Definition, available for free... And thousands of users are downloading those members areas every second... those guys are never ever going to pay for that content, if they can get it for free....

A friend of mine told me the other day: "I stopped paying for porn many years ago, I can get anything I want for free now"
.

will76 · 05-13-2010, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argos88

Problem are not tubes... they represent the 5% of the free content.

Do you know what torrents are?

Do you know what pornbb and extreme-board are?

Do you know sharingmatrix, hotfile and the dozen rapid clones available right now?

Those have 80% of the free content rigth now, and I'm talking about downloadable SITE RIPS in HD available for free right now.

Take a look at those and you will be surprised... 15,000 active users at all times... every single post with content get too many thanks to list... Those forums move so fast that you refresh it every 5 seconds and you see new threads and post with FREE MEMBERS areas popping up... every single second.
.

The difference is that the people on the torrents are the more experienced surfers who are past the point of likely ever buying porn online.

The tube sites rank well in the SE's and get a lot of word of mouth from the not so knowledgable surfers either new to the net or have no idea where to find free porn so they type in free porn etc... Those are the surfers we want to land on a membership site first vs a tube site.

Shap · 05-13-2010, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argos88

Shap, when you see a complete members AREA of Twisties, given away for free at sites like sharingmatrix, hotfile, pornbb or extreme-board, torrents, do you send a DMCA??

And do you get any response?? Do they take your stuff down??

and if they don't, what do you do?

They do. We work with RemoveYourContent and all day everyday they do that. It's and endless job. They look for links and we send them links. We can't catch them as fast as they go up but once we find them they are usually down in 24 hours, only to re-pop up the next day.

Robbie · 05-13-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

The tube sites rank well in the SE's and get a lot of word of mouth from the not so knowledgable surfers either new to the net or have no idea where to find free porn so they type in free porn etc... Those are the surfers we want to land on a membership site first vs a tube site.

I think you're not taking into account that he spoke of sites like pornbb which are HUGE in traffic and have all the torrent links all categorized and waiting for the millions of surfers who go there.

will76 · 05-13-2010, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

Ugh, you know I hate to agree with you ...

But damn, you're right here man.

The people you're talking about... some of them got picked up by MAJOR adult companies because it LOOKED like they really knew what they were doing. But, it was really right place at the right time. They had connections, lots of friends, sway in industry circles... precisely because of that money they made early on when it was easy.

And yup, not easy anymore. It takes work and patience, and more importantly, more money than ever before to stay in the game long enough, and produce something good enough, to start turning good profits.

Here's the thing though... I think we're kind of in a transition stage right now in the sense that companies are adjusting. Which ones will adjust in time, or adjust in relevant ways, we'll see.

One of the most important things we can do right now as an industry, IMHO, is stop screwing over the paying consumers. I credit Tom Hymes for putting this thought in my head: It's just insane for companies to find people who are STILL willing to pay for adult services, and then screw them. Charge them for stuff they didn't want, double bill, place all kinds of traps in the fine print. Wall Street can get away with that kind of behavior because they hold serious leverage over their customers. We have no such leverage and, in fact, customers have leverage over US. It needs to be about finding out what the real adult fans are looking for, and giving it to them -- and going above and beyond in the process.

That's not cheap to do... so we'll see how many companies can do that. Like I said, we're in transition, we'll know more in a year, maybe two.

The "dumb money" they made and some good connections gave them instant credibility and more connections which made it easier to continue to make money because they were getting good deals. Its a snowball effect. When in reality they guy probably doesn't know much about anything other than being a good talker/ party er / drink buyer.

I agree 100%

Shap · 05-13-2010, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

Ugh, you know I hate to agree with you ...

But damn, you're right here man.

The people you're talking about... some of them got picked up by MAJOR adult companies because it LOOKED like they really knew what they were doing. But, it was really right place at the right time. They had connections, lots of friends, sway in industry circles... precisely because of that money they made early on when it was easy.

And yup, not easy anymore. It takes work and patience, and more importantly, more money than ever before to stay in the game long enough, and produce something good enough, to start turning good profits.

Here's the thing though... I think we're kind of in a transition stage right now in the sense that companies are adjusting. Which ones will adjust in time, or adjust in relevant ways, we'll see.

One of the most important things we can do right now as an industry, IMHO, is stop screwing over the paying consumers. I credit Tom Hymes for putting this thought in my head: It's just insane for companies to find people who are STILL willing to pay for adult services, and then screw them. Charge them for stuff they didn't want, double bill, place all kinds of traps in the fine print. Wall Street can get away with that kind of behavior because they hold serious leverage over their customers. We have no such leverage and, in fact, customers have leverage over US. It needs to be about finding out what the real adult fans are looking for, and giving it to them -- and going above and beyond in the process.

That's not cheap to do... so we'll see how many companies can do that. Like I said, we're in transition, we'll know more in a year, maybe two.

I agree. It will be interesting to see if there is a phase where the strong survive. I think it's going to happen but you never know.

will76 · 05-13-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robbie

I think you're not taking into account that he spoke of sites like pornbb which are HUGE in traffic and have all the torrent links all categorized and waiting for the millions of surfers who go there.

not familiar with that one but when i got to pornbb.com it redirects to sexbook

Argos88 · 05-13-2010, 02:07 PM

And yes, many affiliate webmasters are hurting the business.

People who used to submit galleries, and stopped doing money with it, are now working for rapid clones. They join a program, then ask the account manager to give member access to the paysites.

Then they download the complete members area and upload it a rapid clone.

Then they post it on illegal forums, like extreme-board or pornbb. ((( One of the SPONSORS that support extreme-board is AWEMPIRE.... With LiveJasmin... and nobody cares... So, what can we really expect from this business when you see that kind of situation? )))

So, finally they get paid 10 or 20 bucks for every 1000 downloads.

We, webmasters and sponsors, are our worst enemy, that's for sure. And we are ruining this business, we can't blame anybody else, but ourselves...

.

Argos88 · 05-13-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

not familiar with that one but when i got to pornbb.com it redirects to sexbook

pornbb dot ORG

Robbie · 05-13-2010, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

not familiar with that one but when i got to pornbb.com it redirects to sexbook

not .com it's .org It's one of thousands of sites that do it. It's a nightmare

BV · 05-13-2010, 02:11 PM

Here is an idea that I thought of a while back. (i'm sure i'm not the first to think of it though) Maybe some are already doing it, I don't know:

Instead of taking regular scenes and editing them down or splitting them up for tubes.

How about shooting scenes made just for tubes where as the idea would be similar to a infomercial.

Similar to the Girls Gone Wild infomercials we have all seen. 10 - 15 - 30 minutes of teasing and branding teasing and branding over and over and over.

Hell, you wouldn't even have to watermark them. Have the watermarking/ branding built into the scene via props on the set, models lines, etc etc.

Do this instead of the lazy way of taking regular full membership scenes, or editing them down or splitting them up into segments and serving them up.

Try to capture your audience for longer periods of time without letting them bust a nut and drill your brand into their head.

Shap · 05-13-2010, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BV

Here is an idea that I thought of a while back. (i'm sure i'm not the first to think of it though) Maybe some are already doing it, I don't know:

Instead of taking regular scenes and editing them down or splitting them up for tubes.

How about shooting scenes made just for tubes where as the idea would be similar to a infomercial.

Similar to the Girls Gone Wild infomercials we have all seen. 10 - 15 - 30 minutes of teasing and branding teasing and branding over and over and over.

Hell, you wouldn't even have to watermark them. Have the watermarking/ branding built into the scene via props on the set, models lines, etc etc.

Do this instead of the lazy way of taking regular full membership scenes, or editing them down or splitting them up into segments and serving them up.

Try to capture your audience for longer periods of time without letting them bust a nut and drill your brand into their head.

This is something we are working on to sell Twistys better on Tubes. But you'll never see tubes become that. #1 Tube owners are lazy and won't do it. #2 paysites owners are lazy and won't do it :/

SZNY · 05-13-2010, 02:19 PM

I think most of the people here know what the exact problems are and everyone has it's own thoughts and opinions about it.

Since a 6 weeks or so (after a long absence because of too much work and getting my thing online) I'm reading and sometimes posting a bit on GFY but I see the same type of discussions as 12 months ago.

We should focus on solutions instead of repeating ourselves about problems what will not be easy (atleast for me).

How to stop decreasing revenues and get them back in balance (improvement of ratios, most tricky part)?
How and what does it take to improve your business model and to make it attractive again for consumers to join?
Who of colleague entrepreneurs might be interesting to join forces / collaborate?
In what kind of way can we have an innovating role compared with mainstream (also tricky part)?
What can we learn from mainstream and all these social/communicative exploitations (very important one)?
How to protect your valuable content?

Tubes and Torrents will stay and never disappear, even when some legal court somewhere in the world will give a ruling that it's illegal. I think with the type of extreme content you now-a-days can find on tubes the the imago of the online adult industry will be more worse.

Maybe there is some way to strike back in a collective way.

Doctor Feelgood · 05-13-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

There are a number of reasons our industry isn't doing great. Here, in my opinion, is one of the bigger ones....

The barrier to entry has always been very low. That coupled with the nature of our business has allowed a number of unqualified people get into the industry. People that shouldn't be in business in the first place. They were able to make good money because it was easy to make money. Now that times are tough they are completely screwed. They never truly understood why they were successful or how to be successful. They are trying to re-create the past with no success and don't know where to turn. The old tricks aren't working and they've blown all the money they had and are now screwed.

Now more than ever it's easy to see who the real entrepreneurs and who got lucky.

What do you think?

so the reason is theres too many unqualified people in the biz?

The Porn Nerd · 05-13-2010, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

I understand what you are saying. But at the same time I have to look at the reality. Stephan from XVideos is NEVER going back. YouPorn, RedTube, PornHub, XTube are all never going to drop back to <5 min clips. It's not going to happen.

Sorry Shap, gotta disagree with you on this point. I know for a 100% absolute fact that the tubes you mentioned - ALL of them my biggest affiliates by far - are asking content partners for 4-5 minute clips because they convert better. Many BROgrams, however, are giving away tons and tons and tons of full scenes - 20+ minutes sometimes - and they have endless content. So some of the tubes DO request longer clips BUT admit that it's the 4-5 clips that convert best.

So why are the tubes asking Brazzers, Bangbros, et al to give them 20+ minute scenes? To fill out their sites! Because they can, because it ties in to some other aspect of their business model, etc etc. And let's not forget how these tubes purchase their own content, too.

I understand it's a balancing act - shorter clips vs. the strength/competitiveness of your tubes - and the bigger money-bringer is going to win. But that's exactly how we find ourselves here: people chasing short-term profit and letting the slow decline in other areas creep in.

All it would take is a few of the big players to cut back to four minute clips and it would work, over time. This is the same issue/problem mainstream media is facing. How to charge for the NY Times after they've been giving it away for free online for years? But either they do or NO MORE JOURNALISTS. So: either WE do or NO MORE ADULT BUSINESS.

You said you wanted to be excited again, Shap. Well, think of a way to make YOUR Empire one of the Leaders/Captains who will steer this ship back on course. if the fucking NY Times has to bite the bullet then, eventually, we all will, too. (Of course, we know you're doing this already, Captain.)

Amputate Your Head · 05-13-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SZNY

Maybe there is some way to strike back in a collective way.

I think the problem that's always existed with that idea (and the idea of any large scale collaboration) is it requires someone to step up as official Poster Boy for porn. If not, then we all just go on doing our own things because you know, we've all got shit to do. But who wants to be Poster Boy?

Compared to industries like, being an actor or a writer or even blue collar workers, we are wild fucking animals. Actors have all kinds of shit to keep them connected and focused as a unit. Writer's Guild and various organizations they all belong to. Hell, plenty of industries have unions or interest groups or memberships that watch out for them or lobby for them or set guidelines that all the players must play by?. that kind of shit.

We, the porn biz.... are wild fucking animals. Nobody cooperates with anyone beyond the daily deals we do. If there's any kind of membership or organization to anything that represents "the adult industry", I've certainly never heard of it. I don't know that anyone has ever even tried to form such a thing for people in porn.

This is what I mean. It starts with a poster boy and an idea. So who's gonna step up? And how do you get anyone to actually join up?

And consider the adversary. Screen Writer's Guild may be a union that protects their wages or whatever the fuck it is they do, but our enemy is essentially, non-centralized global digital pirates. Not generally accepted upstanding work contracts. It's a faceless, locationless plague. That's not easy to kill. It would require a serious force to do anything, whether it's through some kind of legislation, or some sort of straight up digital pimp style retribution or whatever...

The other side of the coin is, ourselves. How do you get everyone to cooperate and play by the same rules and play nice together? If a member violates the rules, then what? Tell him he can't do business any more?

Either way, I see it as a highly unlikely thing that you would collect more than a handful of people.

Most of us prefer to stay anonymous. (well, as much as possible, like not ending up on the landing page feature module on CNN)

dyna mo · 05-13-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doctor Feelgood

so the reason is theres too many unqualified people in the biz?

not according to the IQ thread!

Shap · 05-13-2010, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Sorry Shap, gotta disagree with you on this point. I know for a 100% absolute fact that the tubes you mentioned - ALL of them my biggest affiliates by far - are asking content partners for 4-5 minute clips because they convert better. Many BROgrams, however, are giving away tons and tons and tons of full scenes - 20+ minutes sometimes - and they have endless content. So some of the tubes DO request longer clips BUT admit that it's the 4-5 clips that convert best.

So why are the tubes asking Brazzers, Bangbros, et al to give them 20+ minute scenes? To fill out their sites! Because they can, because it ties in to some other aspect of their business model, etc etc. And let's not forget how these tubes purchase their own content, too.

I understand it's a balancing act - shorter clips vs. the strength/competitiveness of your tubes - and the bigger money-bringer is going to win. But that's exactly how we find ourselves here: people chasing short-term profit and letting the slow decline in other areas creep in.

All it would take is a few of the big players to cut back to four minute clips and it would work, over time. This is the same issue/problem mainstream media is facing. How to charge for the NY Times after they've been giving it away for free online for years? But either they do or NO MORE JOURNALISTS. So: either WE do or NO MORE ADULT BUSINESS.

You said you wanted to be excited again, Shap. Well, think of a way to make YOUR Empire one of the Leaders/Captains who will steer this ship back on course. if the fucking NY Times has to bite the bullet then, eventually, we all will, too. (Of course, we know you're doing this already, Captain.)

Some of those sites may want 5 min clips. I'm guessing the smart ones. The other guys won't. And reality is the guys who won't are making it harder on the others to compete for those surfers. You have to find a balance.

One of the beauties of GayTube is how many TRUE amateur videos we have. We have a TON of long video clips but we don't have very many STUDIO long video clips. I think that is a key. We provide a good product that is competitive and still leaves the customer hungry (and willing to pay) for more. Straight tubes don't have that advantage because amateurs aren't uploading to most of the straight tube sites the way they upload to GayTube.

Btw I'm not interested in being the Captain. One of the downfalls of porn is many owners use it as a means to get money and once they hit their target they are GONE! It's not exactly the most socially rewarding industry and for many entrepreneurs I believe that is one of the problems. Many of the true entrepreneurs use porn to load up the bankroll and then make a run at mainstream where they can be proud and get the public stroking to satisfy the next level itch (the level after financial security is achieved).

Shap · 05-13-2010, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amputate Your Head

I think the problem that's always existed with that idea (and the idea of any large scale collaboration) is it requires someone to step up as official Poster Boy for porn. If not, then we all just go on doing our own things because you know, we've all got shit to do. But who wants to be Poster Boy?

Compared to industries like, being an actor or a writer or even blue collar workers, we are wild fucking animals. Actors have all kinds of shit to keep them connected and focused as a unit. Writer's Guild and various organizations they all belong to. Hell, plenty of industries have unions or interest groups or memberships that watch out for them or lobby for them or set guidelines that all the players must play by?. that kind of shit.

We, the porn biz.... are wild fucking animals. Nobody cooperates with anyone beyond the daily deals we do. If there's any kind of membership or organization to anything that represents "the adult industry", I've certainly never heard of it. I don't know that anyone has ever even tried to form such a thing for people in porn.

This is what I mean. It starts with a poster boy and an idea. So who's gonna step up? And how do you get anyone to actually join up?

And consider the adversary. Screen Writer's Guild may be a union that protects their wages or whatever the fuck it is they do, but our enemy is essentially, non-centralized global digital pirates. Not generally accepted upstanding work contracts. It's a faceless, locationless plague. That's not easy to kill. It would require a serious force to do anything, whether it's through some kind of legislation, or some sort of straight up digital pimp style retribution or whatever...

The other side of the coin is, ourselves. How do you get everyone to cooperate and play by the same rules and play nice together? If a member violates the rules, then what? Tell him he can't do business any more?

Either way, I see it as a highly unlikely thing that you would collect more than a handful of people.

Most of us prefer to stay anonymous. (well, as much as possible, like not ending up on the landing page feature module on CNN)

BINGO! We prefer to stay anonymous and keep our wallets closed. If there is no immediate ROI nobody is interested. FarL is one guy who put his time and money on the line and went to bat against acacia for us. There aren't many like him.

Shap · 05-13-2010, 03:00 PM

SHIT just made my 6000th post. I'm glad it shows as posts and not time spent making them ;/

Amputate Your Head · 05-13-2010, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

BINGO! We prefer to stay anonymous and keep our wallets closed. If there is no immediate ROI nobody is interested. FarL is one guy who put his time and money on the line and went to bat against acacia for us. There aren't many like him.

Yeah, I remember.

Semi-Retired-Dave · 05-13-2010, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Sorry Shap, gotta disagree with you on this point. I know for a 100% absolute fact that the tubes you mentioned - ALL of them my biggest affiliates by far - are asking content partners for 4-5 minute clips because they convert better. Many BROgrams, however, are giving away tons and tons and tons of full scenes - 20+ minutes sometimes - and they have endless content. So some of the tubes DO request longer clips BUT admit that it's the 4-5 clips that convert best.

So why are the tubes asking Brazzers, Bangbros, et al to give them 20+ minute scenes? To fill out their sites! Because they can, because it ties in to some other aspect of their business model, etc etc. And let's not forget how these tubes purchase their own content, too.

I understand it's a balancing act - shorter clips vs. the strength/competitiveness of your tubes - and the bigger money-bringer is going to win. But that's exactly how we find ourselves here: people chasing short-term profit and letting the slow decline in other areas creep in.

All it would take is a few of the big players to cut back to four minute clips and it would work, over time. This is the same issue/problem mainstream media is facing. How to charge for the NY Times after they've been giving it away for free online for years? But either they do or NO MORE JOURNALISTS. So: either WE do or NO MORE ADULT BUSINESS.

You said you wanted to be excited again, Shap. Well, think of a way to make YOUR Empire one of the Leaders/Captains who will steer this ship back on course. if the fucking NY Times has to bite the bullet then, eventually, we all will, too. (Of course, we know you're doing this already, Captain.)

This was very well said, and I agree with you 100%. I'm just glad you are a better writer than I am. Thanks.

SZNY · 05-13-2010, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

BINGO! We prefer to stay anonymous and keep our wallets closed. If there is no immediate ROI nobody is interested. FarL is one guy who put his time and money on the line and went to bat against acacia for us. There aren't many like him.

Maybe define a quality label as "no pirated content" and put one of the still living adult icons as poster boy / girl.

Define guidelines > rules in ways content providers, site owners and affiliates operate. Maybe work with some blacklists.

I know that no one wants to be with his full name / face in the publicity so a known 18+ icon could be a solution. Everyone is busy, have no time because of their daily workload to get involved.

Maybe it's an idea to initiate some "think tank"? (this idea is not mine, lol)

Shap · 05-13-2010, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SZNY

Maybe define a quality label as "no pirated content" and put one of the still living adult icons as poster boy / girl.

Define guidelines > rules in ways content providers, site owners and affiliates operate. Maybe work with some blacklists.

I know that no one wants to be with his full name / face in the publicity so a known 18+ icon could be a solution. Everyone is busy, have no time because of their daily workload to get involved.

Maybe it's an idea to initiate some "think tank"? (this idea is not mine, lol)

The issue is the people that join the group usually lose out. It's sad but true. Nobody is willing to give up a dollar today for a better tomorrow.

The Porn Nerd · 05-13-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Some of those sites may want 5 min clips. I'm guessing the smart ones. The other guys won't. And reality is the guys who won't are making it harder on the others to compete for those surfers. You have to find a balance.

One of the beauties of GayTube is how many TRUE amateur videos we have. We have a TON of long video clips but we don't have very many STUDIO long video clips. I think that is a key. We provide a good product that is competitive and still leaves the customer hungry (and willing to pay) for more. Straight tubes don't have that advantage because amateurs aren't uploading to most of the straight tube sites the way they upload to GayTube.

Btw I'm not interested in being the Captain. One of the downfalls of porn is many owners use it as a means to get money and once they hit their target they are GONE! It's not exactly the most socially rewarding industry and for many entrepreneurs I believe that is one of the problems. Many of the true entrepreneurs use porn to load up the bankroll and then make a run at mainstream where they can be proud and get the public stroking to satisfy the next level itch (the level after financial security is achieved).

Many excellent points here Shap, many. I like what you said about amateurs uploading - cause that's how I started out, as an amateur - and if the aforementioned tubes (other than YouPorn, which is awesome to us) would allow more AM content (that converts, of course) instead of all this endless studio crap (no offense BROgrams/content shooters) then perhaps the tide would turn a little. Some of the tubes - I won't mention them 'cause they ARE affiliates - have rejected this site to be on their tubes:

www.chubbyblondy.com/index1.html

Now here we have a 100% REAL amateur couple, from Tuscany, Italy. He works in the Chianti fields, picking fucking wine grapes, I kid you not, while she stays on the farm with the animals. he comes home and every night - EVERY single fucking NIGHT dammit - she 'fulfill his fantasy', and they tape it. i have hundreds of videos from them i can't even convert fast enough to put on their site. The more you watch their shit the more you like them - they have real italian style, and humor - and you fall in love with them. At least I did! They're absolutely wonderful ppl with low expectations as for success who just do this 'cause they love it/each other.

4 out of the 5 big tubes won't touch them. An Italian amateur who will show her face? That alone is gold. Nope. So that's a big problem, too, not just the length but the type of content.

And I can't really bitch about the 'leaders' or 'smart entrepeneurs' who want to 'use' porn to finance their mainstream dreams/goals because that's what I intend to do, too (eventually). Shit, I'm a fucking cartoon chatacter and shoot all my own stuff from the waist down because I don't necassarily want ppl knowing who I am/what I do. As others have said, this is both a problem and a typical situation, given the nature of adult, the ease of entrance, low overhead, etc.

In the end, we ARE, as AmputateYourHead said, wild animals, and we're all gonna do what we, ourselves, feels is best. Good luck to us all.

Shap · 05-13-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Many excellent points here Shap, many. I like what you said about amateurs uploading - cause that's how I started out, as an amateur - and if the aforementioned tubes (other than YouPorn, which is awesome to us) would allow more AM content (that converts, of course) instead of all this endless studio crap (no offense BROgrams/content shooters) then perhaps the tide would turn a little. Some of the tubes - I won't mention them 'cause they ARE affiliates - have rejected this site to be on their tubes:

www.chubbyblondy.com/index1.html

Now here we have a 100% REAL amateur couple, from Tuscany, Italy. He works in the Chianti fields, picking fucking wine grapes, I kid you not, while she stays on the farm with the animals. he comes home and every night - EVERY single fucking NIGHT dammit - she 'fulfill his fantasy', and they tape it. i have hundreds of videos from them i can't even convert fast enough to put on their site. The more you watch their shit the more you like them - they have real italian style, and humor - and you fall in love with them. At least I did! They're absolutely wonderful ppl with low expectations as for success who just do this 'cause they love it/each other.

4 out of the 5 big tubes won't touch them. An Italian amateur who will show her face? That alone is gold. Nope. So that's a big problem, too, not just the length but the type of content.

And I can't really bitch about the 'leaders' or 'smart entrepeneurs' who want to 'use' porn to finance their mainstream dreams/goals because that's what I intend to do, too (eventually). Shit, I'm a fucking cartoon chatacter and shoot all my own stuff from the waist down because I don't ppl knowing who I am/what I do. As others have said, this is both a problem and a typical situation, given the nature of adult, the ease of entrance, low overhead, etc.

In the end, we ARE wild animals, and we're all gonna do what we, ourselves, feels is best. Good luck to us all.

Btw your text description of the site was PHENOMENAL! I wanted to check it out right away. Your tour execution of delivering the story very poor imo. I didn't get the story from the tour. The text on the trailer is too quick and hard to read. Knowing the story i wanted to get a peek of it but the tour just didn't relay it well.

btw the trailer did not load well at all. I'm on a blazing connection and it took a good 45 seconds to start I almost left.

My suggestion would be to find some way to really emphasize the key points to the story. Don't rely on the traditional style of tour. I feel it really cheapens what appears to be a great amateur couple site. The network pass really cheapens it at the bottom. Why not have the tour on a wordpress layout and make it look like her blog.

Also why the chubbyblondy? Sounds like a fat american girl. Why not busty italian housewife or something like that. Not to mention most people don't spell blondy that way.

You really dig them and I think you have something good. If you re-package it I think you'll do really well.

Sorry got off topic.

Relentless · 05-13-2010, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Whether it's in mainstream or adult there is a lot of NOISE online right now. Michael (mpahlca) and I have been talking about it a lot and we truly feel Content Aggregation is a huge market right now. I think both in adult and mainstream. If you can cancel out the noise and deliver what people are looking for you can see really strong growth.

That's the exact focus of Microsoft's 100 Million dollar ad campaign and strategy for Bing.

They aren't trying to claim it's a better search engine than Google... because it isn't. They are claiming it's a less 'noisy' search engine that lets you find specific niche information without wading through all the other somewhat relevant noise.

Social Networks are another way to eliminate noise essentially. Closed networks where some people bring information in for others. Your old aunt doesn't have to read chain letters on email any more, she can just go to facebook and get the information you and your internet savvy friends bring to her groups.

I Agree with you 100% on this... it will be HUGE business, and to some extent it already is now...

The Porn Nerd · 05-13-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

Btw your text description of the site was PHENOMENAL! I wanted to check it out right away. Your tour execution of delivering the story very poor imo. I didn't get the story from the tour. The text on the trailer is too quick and hard to read. Knowing the story i wanted to get a peek of it but the tour just didn't relay it well.

btw the trailer did not load well at all. I'm on a blazing connection and it took a good 45 seconds to start I almost left.

My suggestion would be to find some way to really emphasize the key points to the story. Don't rely on the traditional style of tour. I feel it really cheapens what appears to be a great amateur couple site. The network pass really cheapens it at the bottom. Why not have the tour on a wordpress layout and make it look like her blog.

Also why the chubbyblondy? Sounds like a fat american girl. Why not busty italian housewife or something like that. Not to mention most people don't spell blondy that way.

You really dig them and I think you have something good. If you re-package it I think you'll do really well.

Sorry got off topic.

Thanks for the feedback! I did not design that tour but paid for a designer to do so. I'm going to re-design it in my own 'style' after we see how this design does for a few weeks (besides, I'm busy as shit til then anyway). But I agree with you - gotta spell the story out better.

The preview vid is a maddening thing for me because I don't know how to get Flash vids to load faster! I decrease file size, i lose quality, etc etc. (Any suggestions?)

Showing the network at the bottom 'adds value', in my experience, and many people join when they see they get 30+ websites along with their Membership. But I'm going to start A/B testing in a week or so, for many things, and testing whether sites do better as a part of the MRPW network or as 'stand-alone' sites is high on my list of things to Test. Maybe a better way to display the network?

Oh - and 'chubbyblondy' was their domain and their idea. LOL I would never, ever choose a name like that. But now we're kinda stuck with it, at the moment. Maybe the 'blondy' spelling will make it stand out more, who knows.

But I sincerely appreciate the time you took to check out the site, and for your observations!

Shap · 05-13-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Thanks for the feedback! I did not design that tour but paid for a designer to do so. I'm going to re-design it in my own 'style' after we see how this design does for a few weeks (besides, I'm busy as shit til then anyway). But I agree with you - gotta spell the story out better.

The preview vid is a maddening thing for me because I don't know how to get Flash vids to load faster! I decrease file size, i lose quality, etc etc. (Any suggestions?)

Showing the network at the bottom 'adds value', in my experience, and many people join when they see they get 30+ websites along with their Membership. But I'm going to start A/B testing in a week or so, for many things, and testing whether sites do better as a part of the MRPW network or as 'stand-alone' sites is high on my list of things to Test. Maybe a better way to display the network?

Oh - and 'chubbyblondy' was their domain and their idea. LOL I would never, ever choose a name like that. But now we're kinda stuck with it, at the moment. Maybe the 'blondy' spelling will make it stand out more, who knows.

But I sincerely appreciate the time you took to check out the site, and for your observations!

My pleasure. Do you own chubbyblondie.com? Could be a good typo for you.

I'm not sure on the flash stuff i'm sure it's a simple fix ;)

Regarding the network of sites. I find it devaluing because you have a unique product. I feel the authenticity of the product was cheapened by the 30 network sites. You can mention it later on but it is way too in your face. If an Italian Couple has a website and they run it from their little farm how are they part of 30 site network? You know what I mean? Maybe introduce later on the tour as a bonus 'I've added my site to this great network to help all my members get more content.' Just a few ideas ;)

The Porn Nerd · 05-13-2010, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

My pleasure. Do you own chubbyblondie.com? Could be a good typo for you.

I'm not sure on the flash stuff i'm sure it's a simple fix ;)

Regarding the network of sites. I find it devaluing because you have a unique product. I feel the authenticity of the product was cheapened by the 30 network sites. You can mention it later on but it is way too in your face. If an Italian Couple has a website and they run it from their little farm how are they part of 30 site network? You know what I mean? Maybe introduce later on the tour as a bonus 'I've added my site to this great network to help all my members get more content.' Just a few ideas ;)

This is exactly the reason for A/B testing. LOL I hope readers who have been debating whether they should go the A/B testing route will pick up on this and go for it. Moving the netwrk to the Join page? Test it! Make the thumbs smaller or bigger? test it! Try weaving it into the uniqueness of chubby blondy? Test it!

When I read (great) advice like yours, or receive it from other sources, I instantly want to try it! Yes yes!! EXACTLY what I need! And I've done this in the past and couldn't understand the results enough to know if I was doing something right or wrong. So now it's time to test test test. It's the only way (at this point) to tell the right way to go.

Thanks Shap! You must be the King of A/B testing so I'm sure you "get it" already.

Shap · 05-13-2010, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

This is exactly the reason for A/B testing. LOL I hope readers who have been debating whether they should go the A/B testing route will pick up on this and go for it. Moving the netwrk to the Join page? Test it! Make the thumbs smaller or bigger? test it! Try weaving it into the uniqueness of chubby blondy? Test it!

When I read (great) advice like yours, or receive it from other sources, I instantly want to try it! Yes yes!! EXACTLY what I need! And I've done this in the past and couldn't understand the results enough to know if I was doing something right or wrong. So now it's time to test test test. It's the only way (at this point) to tell the right way to go.

Thanks Shap! You must be the King of A/B testing so I'm sure you "get it" already.

I try. I'm lucky Mpahlca keeps me in line. I get too many ideas and want them all implemented immediately. But doing that makes it impossible to know what is a positive change and what is a negative change lol

Daddy Big Nuts · 05-13-2010, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

There are a number of reasons our industry isn't doing great. Here, in my opinion, is one of the bigger ones....

The barrier to entry has always been very low. That coupled with the nature of our business has allowed a number of unqualified people get into the industry. People that shouldn't be in business in the first place. They were able to make good money because it was easy to make money. Now that times are tough they are completely screwed. They never truly understood why they were successful or how to be successful. They are trying to re-create the past with no success and don't know where to turn. The old tricks aren't working and they've blown all the money they had and are now screwed.

Now more than ever it's easy to see who the real entrepreneurs and who got lucky.

What do you think?

I'm a little late on this....but totally feel the same way. Its kind of "if you build it they will come" theory for brick and mortar....but eventually you need guts....and knowledge...

ruff · 05-13-2010, 06:36 PM

There is a lot of food for thought in this excellent discussion. Wish I had seen tube sites coming, but what are you going to do? The fact is, no matter who you are, leader or follower, amateur or high profile well financed professional or whatever, there is absolutely nothing you are going to be able to do about the current porn model and the self-distructive course that it is headed in. Why? Because the technology is not there yet. Until you can keep your content on site by proprietary means, the bottom feeders are going to rip you off. The day you have the technical ability to disable a .jpg file, flash file or any type of file when it leaves your server, you will have the ability to control your business model. Until that technology is in place, thinking that you are going to get a group as diverse as porn webmasters into working together is a fantasy. It's a dog eat dog world out there, and like they say, on the Internet, nobody knows you are a dog.

SomeCreep · 05-13-2010, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shap

A Major Reason Our Industry is Suffering

Two words: Tube sites.

And you know it.

SomeCreep · 05-13-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roald

Weird cause I am sure that in the beginning I could get a free smutserver/kinghost/terra.es (damn they rocked) account put some bullshit gallery on it with a simple banner or textlink, submit it for free (no submit passes back then) and make a shit load of sales on a single gallery. Good times!

Thing is even though it might look easier now, with all the info out there and cheap bw etc etc, making the actual sale is not that easy anymore. And yes this is also due to the loads of free content out there BUT there is a big diffrence in todays internet. Back in the day people would get an AOL account and first thing they did was search for porn. These days the majority of people go online and first thing they do is setup a Facebook account, register for twitter, talk to friends on MSN, and at the end of the day when they might have a little bit of time left they look at some porn.

There is simply so much more to do these days on the internet than there was 10 years ago, so blaming it all on the free content out there is just not making sense imo. There are still affiliates (not talking sponsors) out there doing 100s of sales a day, and thats not because they are lucky (most of the times lol). Its because they know what they are doing.

Years ago the big TGP guys where king. They made shitloads of money however most never changed a thing, so now they are dying. Is it because they were lucky and had no clue what they did or did they make enough and stopped caring about it? Point is they are going down, others came in and took over. Blame the tubes all you want but in the end of the day they have all the traffic and still make a load of money.

Some of the old school guys always said why change a winning team, well if you don't adapt (there it is I said it) and change the way you market you willl not make it in todays world.

So yes there is a lot of free porn out there but there is also still a lot to be made.

Damn, this must be my longest post ever lol!!!

Good post. All very accurate. The only thing you left out is that all of the biggest illegal tubes make it nearly impossible for legitimate players to compete with them.

The illegitimate players are gaining strength at the expense of the legitimate players. With that type of progression, in the end, both lose.

BFT3K · 05-13-2010, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

Two words: Tube sites.

And you know it.

They know it - they just don't want to admit it.

The Porn Nerd · 05-13-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeCreep

Good post. All very accurate. The only thing you left out is that all of the biggest illegal tubes make it nearly impossible for legitimate players to compete with them.

The illegitimate players are gaining strength at the expense of the legitimate players. With that type of progression, in the end, both lose.

Illegal tubes that scrape entire mem areas, or off other tubes and change aff codes, etc etc are a huge problem, as are pirates (torrents) et al. In fact, just about every (excellent) point made in this thread is a factor; taken together and it's devastating.

I like Ruff's idea of 'disabling' a .jpg or Flash file the instant it leaves your server as a way of protection. Someone tries to download something - poof! The image 'self-destructs' or disintegrates, or pixelates, something. Run every bit through a server 'filter' where you have total control and....I dunno. I'm not a programmer (obviously). But c'mon designers/programmers/smart people! Think of something like in Mission: Impossible. 'This jpg will self-destruct in five...four...three.."

LickMyBalls · 05-13-2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will76

not familiar with that one but when i got to pornbb.com it redirects to sexbook

Brazzers bought pornbb.com from pornbb.org for $5k about 2 years ago. Who knows who has it now.

LickMyBalls · 05-13-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Argos88

Shap, when you see a complete members AREA of Twisties, given away for free at sites like sharingmatrix, hotfile, pornbb or extreme-board, torrents, do you send a DMCA??

And do you get any response?? Do they take your stuff down??

and if they don't, what do you do?

If you're looking for Glam content on extreme-board.... you need to have your head examined.

LickMyBalls · 05-13-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SZNY

I think most of the people here know what the exact problems are and everyone has it's own thoughts and opinions about it.

Since a 6 weeks or so (after a long absence because of too much work and getting my thing online) I'm reading and sometimes posting a bit on GFY but I see the same type of discussions as 12 months ago.

We should focus on solutions instead of repeating ourselves about problems what will not be easy (atleast for me).

How to stop decreasing revenues and get them back in balance (improvement of ratios, most tricky part)?
How and what does it take to improve your business model and to make it attractive again for consumers to join?
Who of colleague entrepreneurs might be interesting to join forces / collaborate?
In what kind of way can we have an innovating role compared with mainstream (also tricky part)?
What can we learn from mainstream and all these social/communicative exploitations (very important one)?
How to protect your valuable content?

Tubes and Torrents will stay and never disappear, even when some legal court somewhere in the world will give a ruling that it's illegal. I think with the type of extreme content you now-a-days can find on tubes the the imago of the online adult industry will be more worse.

Maybe there is some way to strike back in a collective way.

Fuck cams... They support all these thieves. Take your lecture elsewhere cam man.

pornjudge · 05-13-2010, 09:33 PM

you don't need a degree to sale porn lol... dont tell me your making like you made 5 years ago? porn is on the decline... does not matter how good you are;)

andrej_NDC · 05-14-2010, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pornjudge

you don't need a degree to sale porn lol... dont tell me your making like you made 5 years ago? porn is on the decline... does not matter how good you are;)

I'm doing better now. Actually I'm doing better also with tgp galleries, which seems crazy.

Amputate Your Head · 05-14-2010, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterPeabody

Illegal tubes that scrape entire mem areas, or off other tubes and change aff codes, etc etc are a huge problem, as are pirates (torrents) et al. In fact, just about every (excellent) point made in this thread is a factor; taken together and it's devastating.

I like Ruff's idea of 'disabling' a .jpg or Flash file the instant it leaves your server as a way of protection. Someone tries to download something - poof! The image 'self-destructs' or disintegrates, or pixelates, something. Run every bit through a server 'filter' where you have total control and....I dunno. I'm not a programmer (obviously). But c'mon designers/programmers/smart people! Think of something like in Mission: Impossible. 'This jpg will self-destruct in five...four...three.."

Even 'protected' Flash is easy game. There are Flash decompilers easily available, and they work like a charm. The person that invents a sure fire way for content to self destruct on command will be banking forever.

Barefootsies · 05-14-2010, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Relentless

That's the exact focus of Microsoft's 100 Million dollar ad campaign and strategy for Bing.

They aren't trying to claim it's a better search engine than Google... because it isn't. They are claiming it's a less 'noisy' search engine that lets you find specific niche information without wading through all the other somewhat relevant noise.

Social Networks are another way to eliminate noise essentially. Closed networks where some people bring information in for others. Your old aunt doesn't have to read chain letters on email any more, she can just go to facebook and get the information you and your internet savvy friends bring to her groups.

I Agree with you 100% on this... it will be HUGE business, and to some extent it already is now...

Completely agree.

05-13-2010, 02:19 PM	#269
SZNY SZNY Industry Role: Join Date: May 2004 Location: Sexy Republic Posts: 2,800	I think most of the people here know what the exact problems are and everyone has it's own thoughts and opinions about it. Since a 6 weeks or so (after a long absence because of too much work and getting my thing online) I'm reading and sometimes posting a bit on GFY but I see the same type of discussions as 12 months ago. We should focus on solutions instead of repeating ourselves about problems what will not be easy (atleast for me). How to stop decreasing revenues and get them back in balance (improvement of ratios, most tricky part)? How and what does it take to improve your business model and to make it attractive again for consumers to join? Who of colleague entrepreneurs might be interesting to join forces / collaborate? In what kind of way can we have an innovating role compared with mainstream (also tricky part)? What can we learn from mainstream and all these social/communicative exploitations (very important one)? How to protect your valuable content? Tubes and Torrents will stay and never disappear, even when some legal court somewhere in the world will give a ruling that it's illegal. I think with the type of extreme content you now-a-days can find on tubes the the imago of the online adult industry will be more worse. Maybe there is some way to strike back in a collective way. __________________ Telegram: sandroanthonio

05-13-2010, 06:36 PM	#289
ruff I have a plan B Industry Role: Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Seattle - Miami - St Kitts Posts: 5,501	There is a lot of food for thought in this excellent discussion. Wish I had seen tube sites coming, but what are you going to do? The fact is, no matter who you are, leader or follower, amateur or high profile well financed professional or whatever, there is absolutely nothing you are going to be able to do about the current porn model and the self-distructive course that it is headed in. Why? Because the technology is not there yet. Until you can keep your content on site by proprietary means, the bottom feeders are going to rip you off. The day you have the technical ability to disable a .jpg file, flash file or any type of file when it leaves your server, you will have the ability to control your business model. Until that technology is in place, thinking that you are going to get a group as diverse as porn webmasters into working together is a fantasy. It's a dog eat dog world out there, and like they say, on the Internet, nobody knows you are a dog. __________________ CryptoFeeds

05-13-2010, 01:52 PM	#253
Argos88 So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,732	Shap, when you see a complete members AREA of Twisties, given away for free at sites like sharingmatrix, hotfile, pornbb or extreme-board, torrents, do you send a DMCA?? And do you get any response?? Do they take your stuff down?? and if they don't, what do you do?

05-13-2010, 02:07 PM	#264
Argos88 So Fucking Banned Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,732	And yes, many affiliate webmasters are hurting the business. People who used to submit galleries, and stopped doing money with it, are now working for rapid clones. They join a program, then ask the account manager to give member access to the paysites. Then they download the complete members area and upload it a rapid clone. Then they post it on illegal forums, like extreme-board or pornbb. ((( One of the SPONSORS that support extreme-board is AWEMPIRE.... With LiveJasmin... and nobody cares... So, what can we really expect from this business when you see that kind of situation? ))) So, finally they get paid 10 or 20 bucks for every 1000 downloads. We, webmasters and sponsors, are our worst enemy, that's for sure. And we are ruining this business, we can't blame anybody else, but ourselves... .

05-13-2010, 02:11 PM	#267
BV wtf Industry Role: Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Bikini State, FL USA Posts: 10,914	Here is an idea that I thought of a while back. (i'm sure i'm not the first to think of it though) Maybe some are already doing it, I don't know: Instead of taking regular scenes and editing them down or splitting them up for tubes. How about shooting scenes made just for tubes where as the idea would be similar to a infomercial. Similar to the Girls Gone Wild infomercials we have all seen. 10 - 15 - 30 minutes of teasing and branding teasing and branding over and over and over. Hell, you wouldn't even have to watermark them. Have the watermarking/ branding built into the scene via props on the set, models lines, etc etc. Do this instead of the lazy way of taking regular full membership scenes, or editing them down or splitting them up into segments and serving them up. Try to capture your audience for longer periods of time without letting them bust a nut and drill your brand into their head.

05-13-2010, 03:00 PM	#276
Shap Confirmed User Industry Role: Join Date: May 2001 Posts: 8,313	SHIT just made my 6000th post. I'm glad it shows as posts and not time spent making them ;/

05-13-2010, 09:33 PM	#297
pornjudge So Fucking Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upmywomansass Posts: 2,214	you don't need a degree to sale porn lol... dont tell me your making like you made 5 years ago? porn is on the decline... does not matter how good you are;)