DamianJ

You compete with free by offering stuff they can't get for free.

Robbie

That's true. And unfortunately I'm in the PORN business.

My entire business model isn't designed to sell them "stuff"
It's designed to sell porn.

And I can't make this kind of money by selling them adult toys or dick pills. I need to sell them what they really want: porn.

So I guess I'm screwed.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

will76

Robbie, there are lots of affiliates that can send 1000 hits a day. Maybe they aren't sending to you, but they are out there.

Not that 1000 hits means shit anyway. It could be 1000 trash traffic hits, its sales that matter.

I can send you 1000 hits a day for about $4 does that make me a genius too ?

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

Shap

I would think the biggest benefit to him posting here is people know who to go to whether it be to do business with them or to be acquired. I believe he said it early on in this thread if you are selling hit us up.

Shap

Well Said.

I'd just add that one problem now is so many of them are no longer ILLEGAL. The amount of traffic a lot of the legal tubes have and the number of sponsors that have bent over to provide content to them has really put a hurt on that strategy. We honestly had a chance to do that 3 years ago. It could have worked. I don't think that strategy would work now. It's too far gone and too many people are hurting real bad to take that chance. 3 years ago everybody could afford to do it but couldn't be bothered.

As an industry we fat lazy greedy cunts. Every single storm we've had to face we've caused be either turning a blind eye or playing a part in it.

Shap

I understand what you are saying and what he is saying. I think what Robbie is saying is there used to be a lot of significant affiliates. 10+ sales a day 5+ sales a day etc. Now those numbers have dropped substantially. I know my strategy for our paysite business is simple. Affiliates are icing on the cake but to survive and be relevant in 2, 3, 5 years from now we have to be really good at buying and converting traffic. It's that simple. You have to control the traffic yourself. If you can do that well then you'll obviously be able to make affiliates happy and continue to get their traffic.

Robbie

No, I was referring to real affiliate traffic from my former big affiliates who sent golden traffic directly from their niche free sites. Real surfers clicking a link because they have real interest.

What I see are those same ones that were sending mega traffic a couple of years ago...now sending hardly any. And yet I see them promoting the shit out of us on their sites. And I talk to them personally and I see the traffic numbers for their sites in free fall just like the rest of us.

I know what you're saying about buying some shit traffic and sending it. But that's not what I'm talking about at all.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Robbie

And that is the same thing I have heard over the last couple of years from nearly every program owner I have spoken to at shows. Part of the evolution of things.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Wizzo

If that's the case, how do people in bottled water industry compete? Simple, they made public think they have a superior product, when the reality in most cases tap water is actually better quality but they marketed the exact thing people can get for free in a way that makes people want to buy it.

I know that it might be a bit tougher with porn, but I have a few ideas on how to make that happen...

__________________
Looking for Opportunity!

Robbie

I already tried that...I told people that my porn is superior and safer...but they didn't fall for it.

But seriously, I hope to God you do come up with a doable solution. I already came up with mine for Claudia-Marie.Com
But that doesn't help me as an affiliate trying to make sales to all these programs that are being destroyed by piracy.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Mr. Cool Ice

That is the wrong analogy.

This is not a matter of tap water vs bottled water. This is bottled water for sale at 7-11 vs free bottled water, the same bottled water that is inside 7-11, being given away in the parking lot of 7-11.

You would not be able to compete with free bottled water if your business was selling bottled water. Especially if they made the free bottled water available EVERYWHERE you were selling your bottled water. You'd fail. It would only be a matter of time.

__________________

Agent 488

whining gets you nowhere. this is the new environment. adapt or die.

Robbie

bingo!!!

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Roald

I hear you though

__________________

Mr. Cool Ice

This attitude is poor and is usually used when one does not have a dog in the fight or much to lose. I'm sure everyone who is a professional is desperately trying to keep their head above water already. You do not need to remind them.

You can not adapt to free in this industry in terms of running a pay site. You can only die. Maybe not tomorrow. Maybe not in 1 year. Maybe not in 2. But it will happen sooner or later if this trend continues. It will happen to the biggest and smartest of them.

I smoke a pack of cigarettes a day. I pay for them. If I was given the option to get the same brand of smokes for free, guess what I would do? I may even drive a little further to get them. Now lets deliver them to my home. I can pay to have them delivered, usually paying a little more for the convenience of it all, or I can have them delivered totally free.

Not only are they totally free, but my 14 year old son can get them too because they don't care how old they people are they give them too, unlike the store and unlike the company that makes you pay for deliver. So now my 14 year old son is now a smoker, but he will also be a life long smoker thanks to these free smokes delivered to our house daily. He will NEVER pay for smokes again in his life because he has grown up getting them for free.

This is a losing situation. It really is. Porn is a unique product and it has to be sold, not given away. You can not outsmart free, none of you can. You can only hope laws are changed in your favor somewhere along the line and that the business model of free porn becomes less profitable for those running the sites, which will in turn result in less sites, much like the pay sites that are dying now.

__________________

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Paranoid much Nathan / Fabian? That is a rhetorical question, so you need not answer it (actually, I think you already have by your so-called responses, or rather, lack thereof, to previous questions).

Quit being so afraid of me Nathan / Fabian Thylmann, since as I have said before, I'm not trying to harm you, The only thing I am trying to do is obtain some truthful answers, which you seem to have demonstrated over and again that you are incapable of, or do not wish to provide.

Using your logic, I guess that the truth is what threatens you most (or perhaps it is the FBI or Interpol that has you being so reticent in responding to simple questions).

People reading the questions posed to you, and your mostly non-answers in response, should be able to understand that you have chosen to continue with the smoke and mirrors, using obfuscation, instead of anything resembling full disclosure/honesty/forthrightness.

Case in point. you've repeatedly been asked who your partners/shareholders/investors are, and instead of answering the question with any actual names, you have deflected the question by stating that your unnamed partners/shareholders/investors are insignificant, having only a 1% to 2% share in Manwin.

In a reportedly $140 million dollar transaction, a 1%-2% share represents a $1.4 million to $2.8 million dollar investment, which is not a typical small investment for Joe Average. Therefore, these still unnamed people obviously represent more serious money than you are trying to lead people to believe, even though you discount them as insignificant.

Your refusal to name any other partners/shareholders/investors in Manwin seems to me to suggest that you/they may indeed have something to hide.


Afterall, you have chosen to associate yourself with Mansef, a company currently under indictment by the US government, and which is being sued in civil court for multiple copyright violations.

You seem to suggest that O-u-i-s-s-a-m Youseff (without hyphens) and Stephane Manos are out (in answer to my question #3), however this is in apparent contradiction to the press release contained in post #1 of this thread:

The press release continues, "We chose to make this announcement today rather than three months ago, because we were concentrating on taking over the assets, as well as establishing a corporate policy which satisfies the new owner".

Unless you are speaking in the third person, that implies that you (Nathan/Fabian) are not the new owner, however the rest of the press release is written in the first person.

You do mention,"The CEO of Manwin CANADA, our office and service company in Montreal, is Feraz, a few people here will know him". Yet the only reference to this new Manwin CEO (Feraz) that I could find in searching GFY and Google, is a single press release regarding Juggcash from a few years ago, and that Feraz does not seem to be a particularly high-level person.

Yet, you have not mentioned Matthew Keezer (aka Matt Keez), nor Salam Said, nor others involved in some of Mansef's shady past.

By trying to duck questions via lame one word/evasive responses, and then also dissemble in many of your so-called answers, you are the one causing harm and damage to your reputation, not me.

For example, in response to simple straightforward questions, you repeatedly say that things change or things are changing, without ever explaining specifically what has changed, or what is going to be changed. Can you be any more vague? (rhetorical question, again)

You at first denied/minimized your connections to certain people/companies, and then when you got called out about them with irrefutable evidence, you backpedaled, hemmed and hawed. and attempted to deflect about these connections without any kind of full explanation.

This sort of reminds me about when Brazzers denied a connection to Pornhub, and then they were caught lying (see the Connecting the Dots article).

Sure, some things change, but you apparently do not, at least not when it comes to answering/avoiding questions about the business you claim to be in charge of.

You have, by your own admission, been involved with some shady people that are said to be connected with unethical/criminal activities, and yet you supposedly purchased a company that you knew in advance was a subject of Federal criminal and civil lawsuits.

It's no wonder you want everyone to ignore the past.

Mansef has been on an approximately three year drive to systematically undermine most of the industry, by capturing huge shares of traffic using massive amounts of free content (much of it considered pirated/stolen), and by less than honorable means (to put it nicely, since some consider it by illegal means).

Much of the industry has suffered as a direct consequence of Mansef's deliberate actions. People have lost their jobs, sponsors are shutting down affiliate programs, and there has been an overall decline in the amount of new content being produced.

Now you want everyone to simply forget about all that by issuing a press release more than four months after (supposedly) buying a company responsible for so much damage to the industry and individuals income.

Then you have the gall to pathetically try playing sympathy and victim cards for yourself...

Kind of too late for that, if you ask me.

As far as I am concerned, you put yourself in the place that you currently find yourself - which I believe may be firmly right in the cross-hairs of US government and International criminal investigators.

Good luck with that...

If you think some questions in this thread were tough, or think that you have successfully conned many people into thinking for a second that you actually answered them with candor, when you instead used smoke and mirrors tactics, wait until you have to answer questions/interrogatories from the FBI/Interpol or a Grand Jury.

That should be real fun to watch!!!

ADG

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Shap

ADG I'd love to know all the details as well but they are a private company. They really don't owe us anything. Do they? If you, myself or anyone else is unhappy with them then the answer is to not do business with them.

datatank

Fabian/Nathan do you also use the nick THY ?

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

They do not deserve a free pass from the industry for what havoc they have wreaked over the past few years.

It is precisely because people didn't/don't ask or care (or more importantly, do anything about it), that we find the industry in the current state that it is in.

The people that have tried to profit off of all this shady business, by buying ads for their dating service, cam shows, pill sites, etc, deserve some of the blame as well, as do some companies that have been co-opted into providing their content in exchange for small links back to their site (amidst a sea of competing ads).

I guess ignorance is bliss to some...

Most honest private corporations do not have a problem listing their management team, board of directors, or even investors - many place this info on their web site.

That a company so big has to be so secretive (particularly about who it's principals are) is plenty of cause for concern, and should be a red flag to people throughout the industry, and to the authorities.

I'm frankly not surprised that money-laundering came up in the Federal government action against Mansef, since Mansef seems like a good place to hide/move money. As the investigation progresses, and if Mansef is forced to explain it's operations, I think things will get a lot uglier for them as well as some of the other people and companies associated with them.

ADG

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datatank

Fabian/Nathan I have a very simple question.

Where did you get $140 million dollars?

marketsmart

he made all his money betting on cock fights...

the ones with roosters, not actually two guys using their cocks to fight..

its confusing, but once you see the movie it all makes sense...



.

Agent 488

lol there are hundred if not thousands of tube sites doing the same, not to mention boards, torrents, rapidshare, hotfile ...

this is a larger cultural and economic trend so to place the blame at the feet of one company is retarded.

munki

__________________

atheos

THY is from Uruguay and runs a latina site and before that he had TGPs

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I doubt that it was anything close to a 100% cash transaction, or that Nathan / Fabian put up all of the cash, collateral, etc.

Nathan / Fabian has acknowledged that there are other "shareholders", he just won't mention who they are, even though if they are reputable people/companies, that might go a long way towards easing some of the uneasiness that many feel about the Mansef - Manwin deal.

If you recall, Penthouse reportedly purchased Friend Finder Network (AFF, etc) for something around $500 million, even though they didn't have anything close to that amount of cash on hand. In fact, Penthouse was significantly smaller than FFN/AFF, and was carrying major debt itself (as FFN/AFF was).

As I understand it, Penthouse is currently in debt up to it's neck, and although they have tried to get an IPO off the ground for a few years now (which failed), they are somehow still trying to make a bid for Playboy, which I presume would mean they would have to assume even more debt.

Sometimes corporate finance is like a house of cards, where the people controlling the deck greedily squeeze out as much for themselves as they can before the cards come tumbling down.

Even if they leave a path of destruction behind them, they often emerge relatively unscathed if they played their own cards right.

ADG

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DWB

Don't knock cock fighting, its bad ass. I own several prized champion cocks and travel all over thailand with them to fight. It's an odd hobby I picked up while living in south east asia. Also own way too many pla-kad (Betta fighting fish). Some months make more money betting on them (or breeding and selling them) than I do in porn.

marketsmart

i am waiting for your movie to come out... i'd rather go see that than a movie about cc processing..

who would you like to play you?



.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I've met DWB, so my pick would be Howie Mandel:



ADG

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DWB

So all porn sites will simply become loss leaders?

Then sell what? Penis pills? Or are you giving away real pussy or hand jobs? Everything else can be found for free.

It's not worth the expense to keep up with new content and all that goes with a pay site for it to become a loss leader. You're better off just stealing the content. *light bulb* Oh wait... now I get it, that's what everyone IS doing.


a·dapt or die
[uh-dapt awr dahy]

1. to adjust oneself to different conditions, environment, etc.: to steal everyone else's content and profit from it until you are notified. at such time remove said content and replace it with new stolen content. claim you are doing nothing wrong because you are removing said content. repeat as many times as necessary, profiting along the way to the bank. if you choose not to operate in this profitable and totally legal manner, you will sooner or later cease to exist.

marketsmart

i would think DWB would be better served/played by someone like gary bussey....



.

Far-L

I have used this one before and will use it again. There is a way to make money still on porn even in the world of free porn. Robbie should know better than anyone that personality, interaction, quality of service is something that a premium can be charged for successfully. We do it and I bet he is able to do it with Claudia Marie.

You can watch shows free on tv now so why pay for HBO or any other premium channel? Better service? Less commercials? I would much rather pay to see something I liked uncut and complete than catch it a year later and heavily edited so I am willing to pay for premium cable. Simple.

And forget the "full movies trump tgp" type argument. Does it matter to the person getting off on it? I could trim the ferret easily to those galleries that Lightspeed used to put up of Tawny back in the day. Did it matter that it wasn't "hardcore"? No. Did it matter that it wasn't a 30 minute movie? Not at all. Did it matter that I knew she was 18 for over five years? Ummm... yep... no on that too. So why didn't I convert to a paying customer? I had the impression when I got a trial that I had already seen the best stuff. And Lightspeed was far better than most in this regard. Think about all those crap sites that had only the same content that was up in the tgp/mgp galleries, but maybe a week behind in terms of release dates.

We try to give a value way beyond what people see for free. To make the site more compelling than just more porn because that is the way to stand apart and give the customer a good feeling about paying. I know for a fact that this works. Why else would we be converting on GREAT BIG BAD FREE EVIL TUBES? If the traffic didn't covert at an acceptable level to make it worth the time and energy to post our content then we would not do it. Period.

However, anyone that thinks free porn is going to end the fact that selling sex is still the world's oldest profession needs to consider a different field and make more room for the rest of us.

__________________

marketsmart

actually, its more like fucking your sister.. sure you both know its wrong but it juss feels so good...

then one day she gets pregnant and you end up with a retarded kid that has 12 fingers and toes, plays the banjo, eats applesauce out of a straw, and the way he looks at the dog just isnt right...

but hey, why worry about that... just enjoy the pussy today and worry about the consequences later...



.

bdjerk

bingo.

__________________
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will76

their traffic source (maybe TGPs) dried up. They were asleep at the wheel, I don't know, you really don't either unless you talk to each of them and ask them whats up. While there has been a drop in sales i believe across the board, some sites still have good affiliates sending traffic, some might not. Just because your bigger affiliates are now small doesn't mean that is happening to everyone else as bad as it was happening to you. My comments was to your " just show me 1 affiliate who can send more than thousand hits a day".

__________________
ICQ: 86364801 Email: will [at] innovativeassets [dot] com

DWB

Ooooh, that's a hard one.

If I had total control, it would be Nick Nolte. The story would be told when I'm an older guy, sitting in some third world prison telling my life story and everything that happened to lead me to that moment. I'd be telling it to some yellow prick that doesn't speak a word of English, or some limp dick Brit who was in tears and facing a drug charge, but I'm really just buying time waiting for the right moment so I can go for the guards gun and try to make a run for it and escape, all the while knowing this will probably be my last stand and will go down in a blaze of glory.

Howie is looking damn handsome these days. He's too goofy though.

A squirly, long haired, washed up Nick Nolte!

Or... Robert Downey Jr and the movie was NOW and not told from when I am older. Robert would be good. Maybe even better than Nolte now that I think of it.

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

I've never seen Robert Downey Jr bald, so unless by throwing out Nick Nolte and Downey, you are saying you have grown hair on your dome again...

Say it isn't so!!!



Then again, there is Johnny Depp - he pulled off bald as Hunter S. Thompson (whom some of your adventures remind me of).



Just make sure they include the tranny enema painter in your biopic...

ADG

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DWB

Ah ha, but you've never seen me with hair!

AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

[QUOTE=DirtyWhiteBoy;17367479]If I had total control, it would be Nick Nolte. The story would be told when I'm an older guy, sitting in some third world prison telling my life story and everything that happened to lead me to that moment.

I'd be telling it to some yellow prick that doesn't speak a word of English, or some limp dick Brit who was in tears and facing a drug charge, but I'm really just buying time waiting for the right moment so I can go for the guards gun and try to make a run for it and escape, all the while knowing this will probably be my last stand and will go down in a blaze of glory.
QUOTE]

If you escaped that would be even more cool - kind of like a poontang version of the Midnight Express:



Be sure to leave some stories for the sequel...

ADG

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Welcome to AVN all fugitives and foreigners that the FBI/Interpol would like to talk to:



Enjoy your stay (or extended stay) as your individual circumstances may dictate...











ADG

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

Thylmann? Thylmann? Fabian Thylmann? fthylmann?



ADG

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MrDeiz

Buy http://www.signbucksdaily.com/

it's 10M/year





























































and growing

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DamianJ

Trent Reznor made 750k in 3 days selling his last album, after making it available on torrents.

What if you sold a monthly membership plus the following (some at HUGE prices obv):

MSN chats with CM
Personal and private email correspondance
A phone call
Private cam shows with CM
CM's panties
A lunch/dinner with CM
CM and you coming and performing songs in their house and then doing a live cam show from a fan's OWN HOUSE

I am just brainstorming using what other people who have their content downloaded as a starting point.

Robbie

I'm not sure how much revenue any of that would bring. I am sure it wouldn't be even close to what I make selling memberships.

Using our exclusive content as a loss leader to sell lesser things that don't rebill would probably cause me to just shut it down and move to another business. It simply wouldn't pay the bills and/or make it worth the man hours I spend on it or the risks involved legally either.

I can tell you that if I thought for one second it would make equal or more money I would do it immediately.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

Agent 488

the artists that make money with free culture marketing do so because free culture enthusists make a point of purchasing the artists product to prove that you can make money giving things away for free.

experiments where artists have given their product away for free without being free culture propagandists have been abysmal.

JFK

Great scenario

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Robbie

Very good point. But here's another point:
Bands and music are very FAN based. If you are a big fan of a certain band or musician you WILL buy it to "support" them. Just like sports fans support their teams.
For instance, I know that Mick Jagger and Keith Richards don't need my money. And I can definitely find their stuff for free. But as a FAN, I still buy their stuff. It's what a fan does.

That doesn't relate to the cookie cutter porn sites out there. Or even niche sites. Yes, sites like Claudia-Marie have real fans, as do other popular personality sites. And CM's fans join and stay and when they have to leave they write me at support and apologize for leaving and promise to come back as soon as they can.

But if it's just a guy who likes "big tits" and doesn't have any preference to whom those tits are attached to...then that Nine Inch Nails analogy doesn't work at all. It won't help Nasty Dollars sites for instance, to give all their shit away and expect folks to buy it anyway. They won't.

__________________
-Robbie
ClaudiaMarie.Com

DamianJ

[QUOTE=Robbie;17372347]I'm not sure how much revenue any of that would bring. I am sure it wouldn't be even close to what I make selling memberships.

Well Reznor made 750k. In three days.



[QUOTE=Robbie;17372347]
Using our exclusive content as a loss leader to sell lesser things that don't rebill would probably cause me to just shut it down and move to another business.

I didn't suggest you did that.

It's not either or.

The model Reznor made work was releasing the album for whatever it was, $15. Then the limited edition stuff was REALLY expensive.

So if you wanted the limited edition print, that was an extra 250. If you wanted the dinner, that was 5k. Etc.

I wasn't suggesting you give away your content. I was explaining you have something that is impossible to pirate and impossible to give away for free. CM herself. I wonder how much a real fan would pay to have lunch with her. 500? 5000? 20000?

Just trying to throw out some ideas. Not tell you how to run your clearly successful business.

bdjerk

it aint a party till the peanut gallery starts analyzing shit.

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AsianDivaGirlsWebDude

ADG

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bdjerk

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