potter

Exactly, and a program that small and unable to sustain itself anyway. Probably wouldn't be just closing the affiliate program and not the sites as well.

A program large enough to sustain the paysite, but not the affiliate program. Most likely means the affiliate program has a large overhead to run.

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Brujah

Honestly, don't you think that such a program is already managed poorly if it can't make any money on a 50% revshare?

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potter

If they're closing their affiliate program then obviously it was managed poorly.

Where did you get the idea that I was stating it was top notch managing if they're closing their program down?

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Brujah

Oh you know, I just get confused easy.

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will76

no kidding he is talking about pennies on the dollar. If they can't afford those costs they have much bigger problems to worry about.

Which part do you not fucking get. They are lieing to you. No affiliate program is closing down because of the overhead being too much for the affiliate program to stay in existence. So what all they have to do is fire the reps, stop updating promos. Big fucking deal. They keep the program open. There are affiliates out there like me, I don't need a rep and I don't use your promos, I make my own. All I need the company to do is send me my fucking money. Which is the one thing they DONT WANT TO DO and is why they closed down their program = EXIT STRATEGY.

Jesus christ you are thick in the head you keep going on and on trying to justify a line of shit that these programs are feeding you and you can't accept the obvious truth, they closed down the affiliate program because they didn't want to send out "xxxxxx" in affilaite payments for the couple periods still owed, they put that money in their pocket, they make 100% on all future rebills, they let their staff go, they cut back expenses as much as possible and they put the sites on cruise control. They can live off of the fucking rebills for probably a year or so and it prolongs them having to get a JOB.

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The Porn Nerd

Maybe he's in denial. Maybe he's friends with the offending party and THIS is all a scam. Whatever Will. Some people get it, others waste everyone's time.

Hey, promote my shit and I'll give you a pass to create your own promos. Heh - I'm not above a little whoring (I said 'little').

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datatank

Define "average"

will76

yeah I would like to know myself as well... what does that $70-$90 include all of the cross sales/ up sells they do off of the person as well?

No way any "average" membership is going to generate $70 - $90 just from membership fees even if the monthly charge is $35, that would still be an average retention rate of 2-3 months. I find that hard to believe that many pic and vid sites are doing that much less it being an average.

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Dollarmansteve

Nope. Fail.

I am the wind.

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Dollarmansteve

Congratulations. Was I talking to you?

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ruff

I can't believe all of you putting a sweet justifiable spin on a company that, plain and simply, cheats its affiliates. You fucking idiots are just the fodder these shitheels love. "Gosh, they must have had a righteous reason for making such a prudent business decision." Do you realize how stupid that sounds? They are thieves, just plain thieves and they are stealing your money.

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CryptoFeeds

DVTimes

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Kiopa_Matt

If it takes me 20 - 30 hours a week to stay on top of shit, and ensure everything is running, then yeah, I'd rather have $0.

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Brujah

Uh oh. Should affiliates be worried about Python programs? Are they in danger now because of xsell problems or banking/processing?

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will76

yes you were:

I am an affiliate. I was posting in this thread and I agreed with the original poster.

You also made a blanked statement insinuating that affiliates aren't smart enough to be business owners, and that being an affiliate means you are a one man operation.

Congrats to you! for such logic.

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icymelon

probably something they will regret. they could sell the program. merge it with another program if they dont want to be bothered anymore. The thing that makes the most sense is switch from pps to revshare. And just don't update as often.
worst case they could set a script to take one update down per week and then add one update back per week and rotate it. eventually the update would look new to most members.

But the smart thing to do is just stop updating and turn to rev share. hosting isn't very expensive these days. you can get a pretty good quality server with a ton of traffic for a few hundred dollars. if your going through more traffic than that you probably have enough revenue to just pass off the day to day operations to a manager.

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Dollarmansteve

If they are thieves then you get a lawyer and get your money. That's what a real business does.

Real businesses eat losses all the time from companies that go bankrupt or are delinquent. Affiliates live in a delusional world of business that does not reflect reality.

If every company who got stiffed by another company chose never to do business with that company ever again, our entire economy would grind to a halt. In the real world, hurt feelings don't matter.. there is no 'code' like there is in the fantasy world of Adult internet.

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Dollarmansteve

By your not being a 1-man show then I guess you are not included in the group of "1-man show affiliates" that I was referring to. Eat that logic boy.

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Dollarmansteve

I don't work for Python and haven't for a long time. Timeline.

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Brujah

Couldn't cut it there?

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Dollarmansteve

Yep. I work at BK now. Would you like fries with that?

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ruff

That's realistic as fuckall. Servers in Croatia, incorporated in Panama, shell corp in US for money, operations located anywhere they can plug in a computer. One affiliate gets ripped for $400 - 500 bucks and you say get a lawyer for, what, 5 grand? Of course there is no difference, this is real business. Stealing is still stealing. Sure don't need any lessons about it from you.

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Shoplifter

Face it, most of these sites were simply front ends for card theft. And theft is what has largely been floating the adult online industry for the past few years.

Very few of these programs would be able to run as revshare on their own merits.

Dollarmansteve

The only thing that matters is what one chooses to do about it, not the fact that it happened.

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Brujah

Sure, they're just discussing it at the moment but guess what? So are you. How many posts have you made in this topic so far? What's the difference? There isn't one.

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Dollarmansteve

What are you talking about? I liked it better when you were focused on personal attacks.

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Brujah

My daddy can beat up your daddy.

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epitome

First off, it is still very possible to do $30 PPS on $1 trials if you're doing things correctly.

What I suspect is a lot of these companies refused to contain costs when the writing was on the wall and the owner(s) also refused to compromise their own lifestyles. That creates a disaster.

TheDoc

They profit 50% on all of the rebills that they would normally pay out on.

Often on the smaller, or dropped in size, or dieing revshare program, the recurring members is the bulk of the payout to affiliates. Programs like this basically live on the rebills, the new sales just kind half ass hold it together.

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datatank

Lets see if The Doc will give us a real answer

Dollarmansteve

Margin doesn't mean Jack when you don't make enough gross profit. Would you rather sell 5 cups of $1.50 coffee at 1000% mark-up or 1 $10 sandwich at 300% mark-up? Who cares - rent is $100 a day, you lose.

In other words, a variable cost will never put you out of business unless you go full-retard.

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Supz

This way they still have all the affiliate incoming links to the site and they dont have to pay anyone.

TheDoc

Average: Some sites do better than others...

The math is based off the long term retention ratio. It's the entire life span of the site, after it has had at least one full year to cycle over its rebills, basically double stacking them.

So if you add the total sales and rebills income and divide by the total number of sales minus rebills, you get the join value of the site. The more time that is added in, the more the join value is, assuming the site doesn't blow ass.

It can be skewed too, if a site only takes in a few sales but built a large rebill base, as time passes without sales the larger the skew will be. So you run the stats from the drop point, and back... If you re-fire a site back up, it could skew it's 'new real' numbers, so it's best to reset your starting date.

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will76

in the words of Sleazy dream, " your an idiot! "

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will76

You kind of sound like Fatfoo on that reply. It doesn't matter if it is new sales or rebills, they both pay out 50%... Only difference is that less new sales = shrinking rebill base of revenue, but that has nothing to do with what you were saying.

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KingpinMedia

didn't you run a celeb program at one time?

stocktrader23

Most of the apologists here fail to take into consideration the shitpile of 'clean' signups programs get thanks to affiliates doing all of the branding. It is an insane amount of people that click on an affiliate link but sign up without credit going to an affiliate.

The programs closing are either run by morons or are stealing your money.

That is all.

signupdamnit

Only if you let them get away with it.

will76

Very good point that no one mentioned yet in this thread. The affiliates brand the hell out of different programs, and sometimes the customer comes back later through google search or type in. We all know sign ups are "lost" along the way depending on the program. Whether it is transaction that is declined, but retried 2 weeks later and goes through and the affiliate might not get paid depending on the program. Or the person enters in their email address but doesn't sign up, the program emails them promos and then the person signs up but the affiliate doesn't get credit.

Then there is intentional and unintentional erorrs.

There is straight up traffic leaks.

Affiliates generate a lot of free joins for programs.


I once joined a dating site after I signed up to be an affiliate because I wanted to see how it worked since they were only offering me revshare (50%). On a fucking revshare deal they still had 2 prechecked cross sales on the join page. Neither of which I got paid a penny from. Then when the person logged in for the first time, instead of seeing the members area there was another "up sell" that was tricky, to another membership site (didn't get paid on that one either). Then there was traffic leaks all over, paid ads, etc... none of which I got paid on. So I asked, you hit the person with about $200 a month of fees, plus the ad space you selling that my traffic is going to that I make nothing from, and you want to give me 50% of just the main site membership and nothing else. Crazy. The first statement the customer gets and sees 4 memberships he is going to cancel them all. so I make 50% of 1 membership fee, the site made 50% of 1 and 100% of 4 plus all t he other shit. bullshit.

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potter

Your over the top GIANT CAPITAL LETTERS don't really make a point. I already stated, the majority of the time - it's obviously going to be a financial decision.

The obvious problem with your theory is the fact it's laden with emotion and the oversight of a business plan.

You're saying program A isn't doing that great, but still making money. Instead of moving forward with their business, they decide it would be more lucrative to end their business and turn into scammers. So the following day, they end the adult affiliate business they had running, and plan to make OMG SO MUCH MONEY (notice the caps) by closing their doors and keeping all the rebills at a whopping 40-50% more than they were.

So, the likely scenario is: Program Y makes Z sales each month. Their affiliate program costs R each month and R is less than the F the affiliate program makes them each month. --- So they close it!

Your theory is: Program D makes P each month. They are making a solid B each month off their affiliate program. Instead of continuing with that B each month, they are going to drop the program to scam the very minimal % increase of B sales each month.

Do you not understand how backwards that is?

Your basically saying (for those that didn't pass algebra), that instead of choosing a solid steady income through the future. The program is deciding to take a temporarily higher but rapidly declining income for the short future.



Oh, and I'm not an affiliate. So I'm not worried about "them lying to me".

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GrouchyAdmin

If a company could split their expenses 50% with an affiliate, what the hell, why not?

You sent one sale that was worth $29. You have $14.50.

NATS Tier 1 costs: $150/mo
Elevated X costs: $150/mo
Cheaper bandwidth: $5/mbit (average), let's say 30mbit sustained.
Server rental: $450/mo (Let's say one members area, one NATS, relatively small program).
Ok, so, processor fees are 12%, so your $14.50 is now $13.63 (that's 6%).

Now, where can you be invoiced for the outstanding balance of $436.37?

That is, of course, assuming that the content and employees work for free.

This is just an entirely non-sustainable model if you can't keep the numbers up. Period. Now, send another 200 joins, and hey, both make money. But at these margins? Nuh-uh.

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The Ghost

Not all programs/sites have their own traffic. At least not enough inhouse generated sales to come close to sustaining production for a growing site. They can incur debt just like any other business. Also why there are so many dead sites comprised of 30 or less scenes (even exclusive ones).


The thread's about how an affiliate program not afford to stay open which was outlined above well by others. Unless the OP meant how a developed revshare site/program becomes one that doesn't pay out anymore, which is theft under the guise of "going out of business."

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will76

OK GOOD FOR YOU THEN

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TheDoc

The rebills don't drop any faster than they naturally would already - the difference is they aren't replaced, so it's still a 50% profit in the rebills, either way.

Aye, no reason to say less sales = shrinking rebills, that's a given.


With your other reply above to stocktrader, most programs sit at 10% natural sales from affiliates, type-ins, etc. Unless the program has traffic of it's own, which almost none do. As soon as affiliates stop, that dries up.

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Rochard

That's not always true....

Depending on how big a company is. If solo girls / models are involved, a percentage of sales from a certain site goes to them. Even under the revshare model, if 60% goes to the affiliate, and 20% goes to the model, that leaves 20% to pay for all other expenses including hosting. I don't even own any paysites and I pay $700 a year for domain names.

Bigger companies like Wegcash, well, they have a big staff and an office. They have huge expenses. They can lay off their staff, but then they have no one to run stuff - something crashes, no programmers to fix it. Affiliate issues? No one to help, no one sends traffic.

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potter

You stated earlier:

Then you stated to me. (As some sort of validation to a point you were trying to make)

When I never made any statement relating to any previous program or any specific situation. I was making a clear observation on business decisions based on financials in the hypothetical question from the op.

And the reply I made which you quoted was a direct response to the quote above. You tried making a point that my statements had something to do with what programs were feeding me. When there is no program "feeding me" anything. Today is the longest I've spent on GFY in a year. I have no knowledge of any drama or bullshit posted on these forums. My points were made specifically off common sense and business logic.

As I said:

Let me know if you want to get back to the adult discussion and can leave the emotion and CAPITAL letters aside.

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potter

Uh oh, someone making some sense. Better wait for the doom and gloom "they're all out to get us" crowd to try and refute what you're saying.

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Brujah

but at the same time some of you (Rochard, you, etc...) are making it sound like running a revshare program is virtually impossible, and obviously it isn't. There are thousands of programs on ccbill alone that are proving you wrong. Of course you can throw a zillion variables at it to skew it one way or the other but at the end of the day the mere fact that so many are doing it just fine, is proof that it can be done. If you want to do it.

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aubreythree

yup, that's right

Chosen