The business of suing porn pirates is spreading.

[Paul Markham]

Adult video-sharing list leaked from law firm

It's hitting the mainstream news media already.

Funny twist on this story is hackers, who I assume are pirates, had no hesitation in hacking into the aw firms computers, grabbing the files of those sharing and post the names and addresses on the Internet.

That will do a lot to make people think about pirating. You might get caught and pirates might expose you to all your neighbors.

[V_RocKs]

Nice to see things finally coming together!

[candyflip]

I would bet that most of the people they are targeting are newbie users.

Anyone using torrents with even a shred of knowledge on the subject can take precautions to protect their anonymity.

[crazytrini85]

What companies are not suing for downloading? I'll target them.

[CaptainHowdy]

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Adult video-sharing list leaked from law firm

It's hitting the mainstream news media already.

Funny twist on this story is hackers, who I assume are pirates, had no hesitation in hacking into the aw firms computers, grabbing the files of those sharing and post the names and addresses on the Internet.

That will do a lot to make people think about pirating. You might get caught and pirates might expose you to all your neighbors.

the same package of emails also exposed the successful use of the "wasn't me defense"

http://torrentfreak.com/acslaw-gay-p...ed-men-100925/


the law firms lax security allowed the privacy of these individuals to be violated

funny thing is, they will have to publically expose how easy it is to gain access someones network (to download porn on that persons wifi) to successfully argue that it was not their fault.

it not the win your trying to make it out to be.
sort of like your youtube filters porn therefore the dmca doesn't apply bullshit of the past.

[Agent 488]

it's 4chan old man.

[Agent 488]

just say you are an 80 year old pensioner who just knows how to use AOL and you are scott free.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Im confused , pirates hacked a lawyer and exposed a big list of other pirates ? seems backwards. Shouldnt the isp be in trouble for giving the list to the lawyers in the first place ?

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by candyflip

I would bet that most of the people they are targeting are newbie users.

Anyone using torrents with even a shred of knowledge on the subject can take precautions to protect their anonymity.

You think?

OK, so there is no proof at all. Just an IP address. It may or may not have downloaded a file that may or may not be copyrighted material. The wifi could have been open. The wifi could have been hacked. The wifi could have a spoofed IP.

There is no evidence at all.

It's not just newbs that pay up from the blackmail, it's idiot newbs.

Not ONE of these cases has gone to trial that I know of...Wonder why?

What I don't get is how the bros are now using blackmail as a business model and the sheep think that's a good idea.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

it's 4chan old man.

Paul doesn't understand what 4chan is. He just reads headlines about piracy and thinks it's brilliant. He likes ACTA.

Bless.

[Agent 488]

once all the tube and torrent sites are shut down and downloaders sued to the poorhouse 80s porn content will sell again and memberships to paysites last updated in 2001 will be selling like hotcakes. can't wait.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

What I don't get is how the bros are now using blackmail as a business model and the sheep think that's a good idea.

Do you have any better ideas on how to turn it around?

So many sitting and flaming about pirates being targeted have nothing better to offer. Come up with a better solution and we will listen.

Sorry if I read these wrong.

The collection was then uploaded to file sharing website, The Pirate Bay, where it is being shared by hundreds of users.

The attacks were declared on notorious message-board 4chan and were reportedly in retaliation for anti-piracy efforts against file-sharing websites.

Still ironic pirates are outing fellow pirates.

[fatfoo]

The anti-pirating business is spreading. That is interesting.

[Agent 488]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11430299

Claire is a Sky Broadband customer from Shropshire whose name has appeared on one of the lists leaked onto the internet.

She received a letter three weeks ago accusing her of illegally sharing a pornographic film.

The 25-year-old told Newsbeat she's never file-shared pornography in her life.

What exactly did the letter say?

"The film was called Chubby Chasers, which is just awful, and the letter [said] I owed them £495 or they would be taking me to court in a civil law case.

"I burst into tears because I didn't recognise the name of the film, I've never uploaded or downloaded pornography in my life.

"I was distraught, really really upset."

How can you prove that you didn't do it?

"The time that I was accused of downloading the film I was in bed. It was very early morning - on a Tuesday.

"My alarm wouldn't have even gone off yet.

"My partner had been made redundant and I know damn well that he was in bed and hadn't got up and started download pornography.

"I know we didn't do it. There was no way we could have done it."

What do you want to see happen?

"I want the whole operation stopped first of all. There are a lot of innocent people who have received these letters from what I've read on forums and websites.

"I think the Information Commissioner has the power to fine up to £500,000.

"I hold responsible ACS:Law - they are the company sending out these letters.

"They accused me, they've got my data and they shouldn't be sharing it with anybody."

How has the whole thing made you feel?

"I just keep waking up in the middle of the night thinking 'What more can I say to them to prove I am innocent?'

"All I can do is deny it and tell them that I know I didn't do it... It just scares me because I work in a job where I work with vulnerable people.

"I would hate for anyone to link me to that sort of material - it's vile, the whole thing's vile.

"My employer could see it and people could link me to material I've had nothing to do with.

"I feel happy this whole thing is out in the open and people are aware of it. But I want people to realise that some of the people on the list are innocent.

"I want this stopped and I want my details taken off and I want an apology from someone."

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by gideongallery

the same package of emails also exposed the successful use of the "wasn't me defense"

http://torrentfreak.com/acslaw-gay-p...ed-men-100925/


the law firms lax security allowed the privacy of these individuals to be violated

funny thing is, they will have to publically expose how easy it is to gain access someones network (to download porn on that persons wifi) to successfully argue that it was not their fault.

it not the win your trying to make it out to be.
sort of like your youtube filters porn therefore the dmca doesn't apply bullshit of the past.

That Torrent Freak article shows exactly why it's working.... that's a win-win, exactly what the goal is.

Youtube is still subject to 2257, you can still upload porn on Youtube. If they failed to comply with the removal request (which they wouldn't), you could sue. All the filtering in the world wont change that.

[Argos88]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Adult video-sharing list leaked from law firm

It's hitting the mainstream news media already.

Funny twist on this story is hackers, who I assume are pirates, had no hesitation in hacking into the aw firms computers, grabbing the files of those sharing and post the names and addresses on the Internet.

That will do a lot to make people think about pirating. You might get caught and pirates might expose you to all your neighbors.

That's pretty stupid for many reasons.

First, they are going against the torrent users and not the torrent OWNERS. Also, after the Viacom-Youtube and other cases, other sites like tubes are inmune.

Second, an historic IP has absolutely no effect. Most broadband isps have Dynamic IP's, which means that if your IP was tracked 2 days ago, you can't trace it anymore, you can't proof that one IP was used by that guy, because that guy has now a different IP, there is no such thing like "tracing history", this IP was in that location at that time. That doesn't exists at all.

Also, the user can say that someone used his wireless router to access the internet.

It's practically impossible to prove something like that.

.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by Argos88

That's pretty stupid for many reasons.

First, they are going against the torrent users and not the torrent OWNERS. Also, after the Viacom-Youtube and other cases, other sites like tubes are inmune.

Second, an historic IP has absolutely no effect. Most broadband isps have Dynamic IP's, which means that if your IP was tracked 2 days ago, you can't trace it anymore, you can't proof that one IP was used by that guy, because that guy has now a different IP, there is no such thing like "tracing history", this IP was in that location at that time. That doesn't exists at all.

Also, the user can say that someone used his wireless router to access the internet.

It's practically impossible to prove something like that.

.

Torrent owners are mostly protected, the technology itself is legal. The person using technology for illegal activities, is on the persons fault. Tubes are not immune, once they fail to comply you can sue. You could sue before hand to make them prove they're user uploads too, but that is risky.

ISP's have laws to record the IP's dished out and to who. Anti-terrorism laws did it. You subpoena the ISP and get the info you need.

Most single home PC setups aren't on wireless. Claiming your wireless was hacked with no proof, is no different than claiming someone broke into your house (with no proof) and used your PC directly. It won't go far in court.

[eroticsexxx]

All that will end up happening is that the real violators will begin 'sharing' on connections other than their own. Technology adapts...always.

In the area that I live, I can pick up a minimum of 4 wifi access points that are wide open. A few others are WEP encrypted (which can be hacked in less than 5 minutes) and the rest are WPA/WPA2 encrypted (which can also be hacked, but it's easy to socially engineer ways to get the key in any event).

And then there is IP address spoofing and botnet control - no Wifi needed.

The process being touted to identify these persons also makes it quite easy for them to be set up.

Like I alluded to before in another debate we had about this issue, the tactics that are being used may appear to be productive, but will backfire eventually.

It's only a matter of time before the names of a few judges/lawyers/politicians start popping up on that "porn pirate" list and then they will become quite aware of how easy it is to spoof an IP or get into a wifi network.

Cases after that point will not go very far.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by eroticsexxx

All that will end up happening is that the real violators will begin 'sharing' on connections other than their own.

In the area that I live, I can pick up a minimum of 4 wifi access points that are wide open. A few others are WEP encrypted (which can be hacked in less than 5 minutes) and the rest are WPA/WPA2 encrypted (which can also be hacked, but it's easy to socially engineer ways to get the key in any event).

And then there is IP address spoofing and botnet control - no Wifi needed.

The process being touted to identify these persons also makes it quite easy for them to be set up.

Like I alluded to before in another debate we had about this issue, the tactics that are being used may appear to be productive, but will backfire eventually.

It's only a matter of time before the names of a few judges/lawyers/politicians start popping up on that "porn pirate" list and then they will become quite aware of how easy it is to spoof an IP or get into a wifi network.

Cases after that point will not go very far.

Anyone doing anything advanced to 'mask' themselves, aren't out getting porn from Torrents. Far better sources than Torrents. Nobody is hacking home wifi's to download porn from Torrents. The extreme few that do, will be exactly that - the extreme few, who's IP's probably don't work out anyway.

99% of the people they have, downloaded porn... they didn't get tricked, hacked, used, etc. Same bullshit we hear with cards. We got the guys IP, the guy used his name, address, etc. But swears his wifi/house/home, kid, etc someone else other than his spanky ass did it. It's complete bullshit.

[gideongallery]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

That Torrent Freak article shows exactly why it's working.... that's a win-win, exactly what the goal is.

Youtube is still subject to 2257, you can still upload porn on Youtube. If they failed to comply with the removal request (which they wouldn't), you could sue. All the filtering in the world wont change that.

actually read the article the old man was accused of downloading gay porn because his wifi was not secured to military grade basically

now his private information was released to the public because law firm didn't have military grade security on their network.

that 10k per person released

if they are to argue it not our fault our network got hacked, and successfully make that arguement

every pirate can make the same claim
if they fail it 10k per name that was released.


oh btw the youtube thing was paul claiming that viacomm was going to own youtube ass in the lawsuit because they were able to tell the difference between porn and non porn

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=845258

paul robbie and kane basically argued all tried to argue that viacomm was going to lose because they filtered porn. And i argued that would not work because of fair use.

Youtube won as i predicted

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Do you have any better ideas on how to turn it around?

So many sitting and flaming about pirates being targeted have nothing better to offer. Come up with a better solution and we will listen.

Sorry if I read these wrong.

The very thought that unless one can solve an impossible problem (piracy) they are not allowed to comment on blackmail being bad is ridiculous Paul.

You won't stop piracy and I've posted many, many ways for people to limit the damage.

You didn't read it wrong. You just didn't read it.

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Still ironic pirates are outing fellow pirates.

a) it is not irony
b) 4chan is not a piracy board, but no one is surprised you don't get that

[borked]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

What I don't get is how the bros are now using blackmail as a business model and the sheep think that's a good idea.

I 100% agree with you on this. What's worse is people read an article and then make their own minds up, instead of getting in to what the fuss is all about and looking for themselves and then making their mind up.

My eyes were wide opened today and my nose doesn't like the smell

[Robbie]

The "It won't work" crowd again.

Wonder what their agenda is?

"Technology will adapt...blah-blah-blah" You damn straight it will and it DID! And we're using it to drill the fuck out of surfers on pirate sites. It's profitable and it's starting a NEW word of mouth.
This time the word of mouth isn't "porn is free" it's "don't go to those sites"

Sorry if that's something that scumbags don't like. But as for those of us who are actually in the porn business (I know, there apparently aren't very many here on GFY judging from the reaction of my suggestion a couple of weeks ago to make GFY 'industry only') this is great news.

And it doesn't cost me a penny. The lawyers work on percentage of money won only.

Fuck you pirates. You're going down.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11430299

Claire is a Sky Broadband customer from Shropshire whose name has appeared on one of the lists leaked onto the internet.

She received a letter three weeks ago accusing her of illegally sharing a pornographic film.

The 25-year-old told Newsbeat she's never file-shared pornography in her life.

What exactly did the letter say?

"The film was called Chubby Chasers, which is just awful, and the letter [said] I owed them £495 or they would be taking me to court in a civil law case.

"I burst into tears because I didn't recognise the name of the film, I've never uploaded or downloaded pornography in my life.

"I was distraught, really really upset."

How can you prove that you didn't do it?

"The time that I was accused of downloading the film I was in bed. It was very early morning - on a Tuesday.

"My alarm wouldn't have even gone off yet.

"My partner had been made redundant and I know damn well that he was in bed and hadn't got up and started download pornography.

"I know we didn't do it. There was no way we could have done it."

What do you want to see happen?

"I want the whole operation stopped first of all. There are a lot of innocent people who have received these letters from what I've read on forums and websites.

"I think the Information Commissioner has the power to fine up to £500,000.

"I hold responsible ACS:Law - they are the company sending out these letters.

"They accused me, they've got my data and they shouldn't be sharing it with anybody."

How has the whole thing made you feel?

"I just keep waking up in the middle of the night thinking 'What more can I say to them to prove I am innocent?'

"All I can do is deny it and tell them that I know I didn't do it... It just scares me because I work in a job where I work with vulnerable people.

"I would hate for anyone to link me to that sort of material - it's vile, the whole thing's vile.

"My employer could see it and people could link me to material I've had nothing to do with.

"I feel happy this whole thing is out in the open and people are aware of it. But I want people to realise that some of the people on the list are innocent.

"I want this stopped and I want my details taken off and I want an apology from someone."

Paul Markham thinks this is good.

[borked]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

99% of the people they have, downloaded porn... they didn't get tricked, hacked, used, etc. Same bullshit we hear with cards. We got the guys IP, the guy used his name, address, etc. But swears his wifi/house/home, kid, etc someone else other than his spanky ass did it. It's complete bullshit.

OK, so what's your take on this (and you have to think outside of the box)...

In continental Europe, things are done a lot differently from the UK, US, Canada and probably many others. But here's how internet works (at least in the country I'm in, but I know Germany and Holland ISPs do the same):

You have a WiFi modem - on that is an external link and an internal, WEP et al protected internal link.

On the external link, the WiFi is wide open - you can connect to any open WiFi and you open up a navigator and any page you browse you are presented a default ISP-given page asking for your login/pass (if you are with that ISP). If you are with that ISP, you enter your details and can surf the net as if you were in your own home.

It's called roaming and it works - you can have "free" internet anywhere in your country, so long as you connect to a router that is connected with your ISP you use at your home. And as there are like 2 or 3 major ISPs, more often than not, you can find one.

Nothing wrong here - you're connected with your details so the ISP can track your connection back to your home address.

What's wrong, is that if someone hacked your account, or guessed your password, you are fucked - this will be passed around the password sharing sites and everyone will be connecting to wifi's up and down the country using your details and you have no idea about it. They do stuff illegal, you are the one that gets landed with the problem, even though it occurred 500km from your home when you were home.

See the problem???

This thing is far more than your IP, your problem.

[eroticsexxx]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Anyone doing anything advanced to 'mask' themselves, aren't out getting porn from Torrents. Far better sources than Torrents. Nobody is hacking home wifi's to download porn from Torrents. The extreme few that do, will be exactly that - the extreme few, who's IP's probably don't work out anyway.

99% of the people they have, downloaded porn... they didn't get tricked, hacked, used, etc. Same bullshit we hear with cards. We got the guys IP, the guy used his name, address, etc. But swears his wifi/house/home, kid, etc someone else other than his spanky ass did it. It's complete bullshit.

Let the lawsuits continue to be publicized and there will be programs, add-ons and websites that will make it easier for the "average user" to mask their identity.

Adaptability is the name of the game with technology. I can assure you that at this very minute someone is most likely coding means of improving anonymity AND they will give that solution out for free or make it available transparently (along with the latest galleries, etc.)

I do agree with the anti-piracy concept in principle (content should be respected), but anyone worth their salt in tech knows that these lawsuits will come back eventually to bite a few people in the butt. Any attempts to escalate the legal ramifications of such will end up backfiring.

I still maintain that even though the initial efforts that were made to reach out to torrent owners failed miserably, the adult industry needs to figure out a better way in terms of harnessing torrent tech and the millions of users who use it.

[DamianJ]

Originally Posted by Robbie

"Technology will adapt...blah-blah-blah" You damn straight it will and it DID! And we're using it to drill the fuck out of surfers on pirate sites. It's profitable

Oh, are you doing the blackmail thing too now?

I'm amazed with your l33t haxx0r protection that your content is even ON the torrent sites, but heck if you make 50% of 500 bucks from the blackmail letters that is great.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Paul Markham thinks this is good.

Jails are full of "innocent" people.

Just knowing human nature...I'd say her "partner" (boyfriend) likes chubby bitches and surfs porn behind his girlfriends back.
Reading her sad little bullshit story, she is "sure" that her boyfriend didn't do it.
BWAAAAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Can't tell you how many times I've heard that fucking bullshit as a paysite owner.

"Oh, someone must have used our credit card...or Junior must have gotten my credit card because my husband would NEVER buy a porn site membership"

Wake the fuck up...

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by gideongallery

actually read the article the old man was accused of downloading gay porn because his wifi was not secured to military grade basically

now his private information was released to the public because law firm didn't have military grade security on their network.

that 10k per person released

if they are to argue it not our fault our network got hacked, and successfully make that arguement

every pirate can make the same claim
if they fail it 10k per name that was released.

The guys wifi wasn't hacked, that's called a bullshit excuse.

The Law firm isn't going to get fined, its limited info and they will get off. The difference between the pirate and the hackers? The hackers didn't download porn, they hacked them, probably because hackers don't care about porn.

Originally Posted by gideongallery

oh btw the youtube thing was paul claiming that viacomm was going to own youtube ass in the lawsuit because they were able to tell the difference between porn and non porn

http://www.gofuckyourself.com/showthread.php?t=845258

paul robbie and kane basically argued all tried to argue that viacomm was going to lose because they filtered porn. And i argued that would not work because of fair use.

Youtube won as i predicted

Google uses digital finger printing to identify movies and other technology to identify skin. The digital finger print technology is what will save Google's ass. With Viacomm it will be proving VC uploaded then complained. User uploaded, fair use - isn't what is saving them.

Technically you can upload whatever you want to Google, legally though Google has to remove it anytime they're notified about it. Fair use BECAUSE of user uploads is what keeps them from getting sued before they're notified.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by DamianJ

Oh, are you doing the blackmail thing too now?

I'm amazed with your l33t haxx0r protection that your content is even ON the torrent sites, but heck if you make 50% of 500 bucks from the blackmail letters that is great.

I've really tried to like you Damian. But it's fucking obvious you don't know a goddamn thing about this business. So fuck off.

You don't do anything in the real porn business. So I don't give a shit what you think. You're no more than a gideongallery wannabe.

You are now my first person ever on "ignore"

[Robbie]

Holy shit! The "ignore" thing is fucking awesome!

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by borked

OK, so what's your take on this (and you have to think outside of the box)...

In continental Europe, things are done a lot differently from the UK, US, Canada and probably many others. But here's how internet works (at least in the country I'm in, but I know Germany and Holland ISPs do the same):

You have a WiFi modem - on that is an external link and an internal, WEP et al protected internal link.

On the external link, the WiFi is wide open - you can connect to any open WiFi and you open up a navigator and any page you browse you are presented a default ISP-given page asking for your login/pass (if you are with that ISP). If you are with that ISP, you enter your details and can surf the net as if you were in your own home.

It's called roaming and it works - you can have "free" internet anywhere in your country, so long as you connect to a router that is connected with your ISP you use at your home. And as there are like 2 or 3 major ISPs, more often than not, you can find one.

Nothing wrong here - you're connected with your details so the ISP can track your connection back to your home address.

What's wrong, is that if someone hacked your account, or guessed your password, you are fucked - this will be passed around the password sharing sites and everyone will be connecting to wifi's up and down the country using your details and you have no idea about it. They do stuff illegal, you are the one that gets landed with the problem, even though it occurred 500km from your home when you were home.

See the problem???

This thing is far more than your IP, your problem.

Hehe, that is out of the Box.

That would be easy to prove though, but a pain either way... You're at work, downloading from two locations at once, or moved from side of town/country/world to the other in minutes. Straight up impossible and easy to prove with ISP records.

What you described is an extreme minority as well.... it may happen but they only deal with that, if it comes up.

[eroticsexxx]

No matter how pissed other opinions might make a person, we have to learn to listen to each other.

Everyone in this industry has a part to play and simply shutting one ears to contrary ideas is not conducive to overall growth.

Piracy affects every single one of us here - from content owners and distributors, to affiliates/marketing reps to surfers.

Debate is good, even when it gets heated. Those who feel passionate about this piracy situation need to remember that there are always other viewpoints that should be considered.

No one here has said anything seriously inflammatory, so why are persons being put on ignore?

[borked]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

The Law firm isn't going to get fined, its limited info and they will get off. The difference between the pirate and the hackers? The hackers didn't download porn, they hacked them, probably because hackers don't care about porn.

You are very wrong - the hackers brought down their site and the law firm brought the site back online from a backup - the major FUCKUP, was they brought the site back online with directory listing enabled, leaving the entire tgz tar file of the drive in the web root directory.

It didn't take long at all for someone to see it and download it, extract the qmail directory and seed it to the torrents.

Their server was not hacked at all. They brought this on themselves

This was a fuckup of data protection to the biggest degree.

Originally Posted by bbc

Privacy expert Simon Davies called the leaks "one of the worst breaches" of the Data Protection Act (DPA) he had ever seen.

in other news, full bank details of ACS:Law's clients are readily available in those emails...

[borked]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Hehe, that is out of the Box.

That would be easy to prove though, but a pain either way... You're at work, downloading from two locations at once, or moved from side of town/country/world to the other in minutes. Straight up impossible and easy to prove with ISP records.

What you described is an extreme minority as well.... it may happen but they only deal with that, if it comes up.

It's not an extreme minority at all. The ISPs sell this thing on that point - broadband everywhere. Kids at college, on the road, all use your connection.

The ISP account holder though gets taken to court.

If my kids were at college using my internet account as touted by the ISPs, then fine. If they do something illegal, they are accountable, not me. But this tactic holds me responsible - similar to the "partner downloading porn at home" scenario, but more extreme as this is a selling point of the ISPs - I can control what goes in and out of my home firewall, but not elsewhere.

Not a minority at all.

Guilty until proven innocent. No, that is not what the laws of my land state.

[ottopottomouse]

Originally Posted by Argos88

Most broadband isps have Dynamic IP's

Quite a lot of the UK ones have static IPs.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by borked

You are very wrong - the hackers brought down their site and the law firm brought the site back online from a backup - the major FUCKUP, was they brought the site back online with directory listing enabled, leaving the entire tgz tar file of the drive in the web root directory.

It didn't take long at all for someone to see it and download it, extract the qmail directory and seed it to the torrents.

Their server was not hacked at all. They brought this on themselves

This was a fuckup of data protection to the biggest degree.



in other news, full bank details of ACS:Law's clients are readily available in those emails...

If the hackers brought the site down, then they were hacked...the issue happened as a result of a hack.

The issue the law firm would have is not encrypting the data. And not all the emails have peoples info on them, some do.

I don't think they'll get fined, they take this court and show malicious activity did it & someone else shared it, thus the hackers are responsible.

[TheDoc]

Originally Posted by borked

It's not an extreme minority at all. The ISPs sell this thing on that point - broadband everywhere. Kids at college, on the road, all use your connection.

The ISP account holder though gets taken to court.

If my kids were at college using my internet account as touted by the ISPs, then fine. If they do something illegal, they are accountable, not me. But this tactic holds me responsible - similar to the "partner downloading porn at home" scenario, but more extreme as this is a selling point of the ISPs - I can control what goes in and out of my home firewall, but not elsewhere.

Not a minority at all.

Guilty until proven innocent. No, that is not what the laws of my land state.

You would be accused of downloading porn, using a defense with no proof. No alibi does not make you innocent.

You control access through the password. So go get the money from your kids/spouse, etc, then educate them on why it's illegal.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by borked

If my kids were at college using my internet account as touted by the ISPs, then fine. If they do something illegal, they are accountable, not me. But this tactic holds me responsible - similar to the "partner downloading porn at home" scenario,

I have an 18 year old.
The stupid law says that an adult 18 year old can NOT drink. (dumb)
If I go out on a Friday night, and she goes in and drinks my beer out of the refrigerator...
I am legally at fault.

There are tons of laws like that (your kid driving your car, etc.)

We better all tell our kids to NOT go to pirate sites. All the better as that will be the new generation learning that you DO have to pay for things online, and we don't get in trouble for them doing it. Win/win

[borked]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I have an 18 year old.
The stupid law says that an adult 18 year old can NOT drink. (dumb)
If I go out on a Friday night, and she goes in and drinks my beer out of the refrigerator...
I am legally at fault.

But he takes your beer from your home, which of course cannot be proven as it could have been gotten from the 7/11, goes 1000miles away and drinks it in his dorm. The police get word that he's drinking underage, so they send a $800 fine to you.

You pay the fine or you go to court to prove
1. the beer was not yours
2. your kid was not drinking beer on said date at said time.

Hell, the brand of beer he was drinking is the same as the brand you have at home, so you are responsible, so you're guilty as charged.

Any more clear on how this is ridiculous?

[Argos88]

Originally Posted by TheDoc

Torrent owners are mostly protected, the technology itself is legal. The person using technology for illegal activities, is on the persons fault. Tubes are not immune, once they fail to comply you can sue. You could sue before hand to make them prove they're user uploads too, but that is risky.

ISP's have laws to record the IP's dished out and to who. Anti-terrorism laws did it. You subpoena the ISP and get the info you need.

Most single home PC setups aren't on wireless. Claiming your wireless was hacked with no proof, is no different than claiming someone broke into your house (with no proof) and used your PC directly. It won't go far in court.

I don't know where you live, but here most ISP's have dynamic IP's.

Also, there is no such thing as tracing the history of an IP. Impossible to do. Even if you get the MAC address of a router, I personally don't know any site tracking the MAC address of a router. Do you know any? Same goes for the PC Micro.

Also, many home users have a wireless router nowadays. Many have their Wireless router open and not protected. I don't know where you live, dude, but here 9 out of 10 of my neighbours have a Wireless connection.

So, yes, it's very possible that any guy with a notebook can use that connection and download a torrent.

It will definitely win the case.

.

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by borked

But he takes your beer from your home, which of course cannot be proven as it could have been gotten from the 7/11, goes 1000miles away and drinks it in his dorm. The police get word that he's drinking underage, so they send a $800 fine to you.

You pay the fine or you go to court to prove
1. the beer was not yours
2. your kid was not drinking beer on said date at said time.

Hell, the brand of beer he was drinking is the same as the brand you have at home, so you are responsible, so you're guilty as charged.

Any more clear on how this is ridiculous?

They will nail you for most things your kids do. That's the way it is. That's why it's a freakin' nightmare to have a teenager running around.

Best thing to do is
1. Make sure to raise your kids not to steal...apparently a lot of people have missed that one lately

2. Make sure to show them what is happening. All the publicity going around about people getting in trouble for being on pirate sites is a GREAT deterrent. You parents of young adults can start by showing them my TGP's and tell them that is where they need to be for their free porn fix and to become future PAYING customers.

3. Your teenage adult kids downloading porn and you getting nailed with a fifteen hundred dollar bill to settle it will be the LEAST of your problems with young adults. God knows I was more than a handful for my parents and grandparents from age 16 to....oh shit, I'm still a fucking handful for them and I'm damn near 50. lol

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by Argos88

I don't know where you live, but here most ISP's have dynamic IP's.

Also, there is no such thing as tracing the history of an IP. Impossible to do. Even if you get the MAC address of a router, I personally don't know any site tracking the MAC address of a router. Do you know any? Same goes for the PC Micro.

Also, many home users have a wireless router nowadays. Many have their Wireless router open and not protected. I don't know where you live, dude, but here 9 out of 10 of my neighbours have a Wireless connection.

So, yes, it's very possible that any guy with a notebook can use that connection and download a torrent.

It will definitely win the case.

.

Tell that to all the people being arrested for downloading C.P. the last decade. Tracing the IP was step one.

[borked]

Originally Posted by Robbie

They will nail you for most things your kids do. That's the way it is. That's why it's a freakin' nightmare to have a teenager running around.

You have your position, I have mine - we'll have to agree to disagree, but in any case this did make me laugh out loud.

In case anyone wonders of my stance,
I'm all for fighting piracy but this way is NOT the way. I understand copyright holders seeing it as a way of fighting back, and probably 90% of those IPs are guilty, but jeeese, what the fuck happened until innocent until proven guilty.

Blackmail is not that. And porn copyright holders sending out these emails is tantamount to
just that. We all know in the eyes of the average joe, pornography is taboo and that many a divorce would happen if Mrs X knew about Mr X's fetishes... hence these letters getting sent out are blackmail and shit scum like ACS:Law are pure thugs praying on this as a source of income from their clients.

More shameful is if some of those clients are thinking the same way rather than genuinely believing it is combating piracy....

[borked]

Originally Posted by Robbie

Tell that to all the people being arrested for downloading C.P. the last decade. Tracing the IP was step one.

Fucking case in point - that was "we have an IP, we tracked it to Mr X, we launched a rade, we found/didn't find evidence on his computers"

*That* is exactly how the law should work.

Not send a letter saying "We've evidence you downloaded CP. Please show up on Sunday at the prison for 1 month's detention or risk going to court, losing and facing 5 years term"

[justinsain]

Originally Posted by borked

But he takes your beer from your home, which of course cannot be proven as it could have been gotten from the 7/11, goes 1000miles away and drinks it in his dorm. The police get word that he's drinking underage, so they send a $800 fine to you.

You pay the fine or you go to court to prove
1. the beer was not yours
2. your kid was not drinking beer on said date at said time.

Hell, the brand of beer he was drinking is the same as the brand you have at home, so you are responsible, so you're guilty as charged.

Any more clear on how this is ridiculous?

In your example the kid IS guilty of taking the beer from the parents house which makes the parent guilty of providing alcohol to a minor.

What the parent failed to do is provide proof ( receipt etc ) that the minor bought the alcohol somewhere else which they couldn't because the kid didn't

[Robbie]

Originally Posted by borked

Fucking case in point - that was "we have an IP, we tracked it to Mr X, we launched a rade, we found/didn't find evidence on his computers"

*That* is exactly how the law should work.

Not send a letter saying "We've evidence you downloaded CP. Please show up on Sunday at the prison for 1 month's detention or risk going to court, losing and facing 5 years term"

That is why everybody is very happy to pay the small settlement fee in these cases.

No way they want their computer brought into court and have experts go on that hard drive and prove them guilty.

The current laws have tied our hands to do much of anything to the pirate sites. But this is sending a message out there.

Remember, this whole mess isn't OUR fault. We didn't steal shit. We didn't destroy the industry. We didn't teach hundreds of millions of people that they didn't need to pay for our product.

We have been raped to the ground. It's time to "re-educate" people. There will be consequences for a person's actions. A pornsite is $30 a month. Less than a dollar a day. And yet they still want to steal it? It's time to take back our business.

This has destroyed many people's lives already in our industry. Think of how many employees of companies have already lost their jobs. Or how many affiliates have had to walk away from making a living trying to sell porn when it's already free.

Those are people's LIVES. With families who depended on them to bring home the money to pay for rent, food, etc.

I have no sympathy for the people stealing. None.

[borked]

Originally Posted by Robbie

I have no sympathy for the people stealing. None.

But it's far easier and cheaper and more profitable to send out thousands of mails to what might be innocent people, that actually take on the real perpetrators, like the tubes and those actually seeding the torrents "professionally"

I don't blame kids for taking drugs, I blame the dealers and those much further up. The police take a similar action, but when presented in front of them of someone doing drugs, they are obliged to take action, of course, but otherwise most of the effort is aimed higher up the pecking order.

This is going in totally the opposite direction, and so will never deter anything - it will simply mean there will be a constant chain of income, since there will always be those that download stuff they got from a torrent.

This is not a source of income folks.

[borked]

Originally Posted by Robbie

The current laws have tied our hands to do much of anything to the pirate sites.

I don't think so to be honest - using youtube as an example of the porn tubes is wrong, since they are actively policing content, whereas porn tubes are blatently flouting copyright and doing nothing to police it, if not actually perpetrating crime themselves and hiding behind dmca take downs as "actively" policing things.

Torrents are a whole different kettle of fish, since yes, they are actively seeded by those downloading, so off their radar legally.