RycEric

We are doing that. It's been a long time coming. It's time consuming so only the biggest fish will be sought.

RycEric

Quite sincere looking though.

RycEric

or Ukraine, Argentina, Ohio, India and Brazil.

Nathan

Sorry, but you have a small flaw in your logic...

I can buy licenses which allow me to have videos on tube sites even if not uploaded by me... YouTube does this all the time... so can we...

You should really stop thinking I am somehow stupid...

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Nathan

Anonymous is a special account.

Video "added" does not mean it was "uploaded" 4 days ago...

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Nathan

If you have to post useless replies, at least try to write my name(s) right...

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Paul Markham

DMCA does not say you have to allow a law breakers uploaded content to stay on your site. It says you can't select, there is no selection involved. The entire account is deleted, including all his uploaded content, for breaking the LAW. Not your TOS.

So now you can't say 100%. So what are the factors or/and certain circumstances that prohibit you from deleting a law breakers content?

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Paul Markham

So you own the licenses on videos not owned by you or your company? How the fuck would you know that until you get a DMCA pointing out otherwise? On content you say you own and uploaded by someone not connected to you or your company.

You could clear up a lot of doubt by making your uploaders of your licensed content upload under your companies name. Not a list of nick names that mean nothing.

Here's an interesting find. http://www.pornhub.com/users/bryanc

Joined: 1 year ago
Last Login: 3 weeks ago
Videos Watched: 94
People have watched bryanc videos: 17,797,701 times

He's got a whole load of Back Seat Bangers videos, owned by Top Buck, 23 full length scenes. Of the 1045 videos this guy uploaded.

So does he work for you and uploading your licensed content, work for Top Bucks and uploading their licensed content or neither

If Top Bucks are allowing this video on your site, where is the link to their site. And do they sell the license of their content to be used on Tube sites?

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RycEric

This was taken off another board:
"This is totally a non-event and nothing at all will come of it. No one (except maybe the FSC) can be so naive as to believe any of this. It's just an easy way for the Tubes to keep the wolves from their doors for a while longer.
I know 2 guys here in Montreal who's full-time job is to steal videos from websites and upload them as a user onto a few different Tube sites. They both have a large number of usernames to hide the fact that they are actually getting paid by the company. I won't name names, but it's easy to figure it all out.
I am actually sitting here, shaking my head, and the ridiculousness of that announcement. "

Nathan

Paul, look.. how ever much I would love to make you happy, I never can anyway. Even if we ran our tubes in a way which would make everyone here call them "legal tubes" (although they are perfectly legal already now) you would still complain. Just about something else. With some people here on GFY, its just a useless fight. I continue to reply to you still though since I even think you deserve answers...

But, please... Manwin is not some small 10 person shop... We are a company. A big one. We have rules and principles, we have guides to follow, and this kind of stuff is internals. I am not going to reveal all our business mechanics and internals to you just because you ask... If my answer is not enough for you, then I can not help you further, it is as much as I am happy and willing to give...

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Nathan

Paul, give me the 23 links to the Top Bucks videos, I will talk to Allison myself and we will see what is happening.. Either its Vobile failing on them or they want them there... It's that simple..

You can email them to me too if you prefer instead of linking here... Or send them to Allison if that makes you happier.

And please, just because we own licenses to content does not mean we upload it to the tubes. I am also not saying we own any of the licenses to the videos in question, I said I simply do not know right now but we might, since we own a lot of licenses...

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signupdamnit

Please elaborate.

Please explain the delay. I'm aware of some possibilities but I'd like to hear what you say.

charlie g

How about this. If the user that uploaded Dallas' movies also uploaded 2300 other movies don't you think some (ALL) were infringements too? If you ban the upload account you can sure as hell take the account's movies off. But until you do something like that you APPEAR to be a fucking liar. And with the rest of your song and dance you APPEAR not to be cleaning up the illegal shit with the your tubesites.

You can play with legal phrases all you want, but the APPEARANCE to everyone here is that you MIGHT BE a smarmy lowlife skirting the law. Because we all know if you took all of the media you dont have a license for off these site's, you would loose the backbone of the appeal of those sites. And because of this Fabian/Nathan, you have the appearance of being a fucking crook. Maybe I am wrong.

How is that Fabian/ Nathan?

__________________

DWB

Did you read what you just posted?

How could you POSSIBLY know the videos (in this case 2300+) uploaded by a random user, were videos you had the rights to or not?

This is not Youtube where mainstream movies can clearly be defined. This is 2300+ scenes of girls shot on a couch or a bed. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for you to know if you have the rights to these or not, unless, you are viewing each one, which means... ya dun goofed Nathan.

If you are viewing each video to see if you have the rights to it or not, that means you are also finding the videos you DO NOT have the rights to and are selectively not deleting them. By selectively looking for those you do have the rights to, you are also finding the ones you don't have the rights to and ignoring them, as they are now clearly pointed out as infringed videos, which as I believe is a violation of DMCA, is it not? You can not choose, however if you KNOW you don't have the rights to them, and it's not a partner account, it is there without permission.

I don't think you're stupid Nathan. Just the opposite, I think you guys are brilliant. In fact, you guys have pulled this amazing move off so well and now you get to put a legal face on it with the help of the FSC, there honestly needs to be a new word created for how fucking smart you guys are. I'm not kidding. How about... Brazilliant?

However, I do think you'll slip somewhere. Maybe not YOU, but someone who works for you. Too many lies for your company to keep, too many technical possibilities, too many people wanting your blood. Somewhere, there is an "i" that was not dotted or a "t" not crossed. Perhaps it will be a bug in your system or a lawsuit that sticks. But in the meantime, enjoy it. You guys honestly earned it, regardless if you did it all by raping everyone else in the process, the fact of the matter is, so far you have gotten away with it, and that is Brazilliant.

Paul Markham

I've sent the email to both you and Allison. And asked these questions.

I would like a reply to whether this is pirated or licensed?

If pirated is this enough to ban and delete all this users content?

If licensed how much more of Top Bucks content is licensed to Manwin?

And if it's licensed then the uploader must be linked or employed by Manwin. Or are you saying someone not linked or employed to Manwin is allowed to upload licensed content?

I appreciate this is the weekend but these questions should be easy to answer. Does Top Bucks license content to Manwin? Fabian and Allison must know this.

Is this uploader employed by Manwin and is all his content licensed?

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will76

Why wont you people, in a situation like this, sue: User Name: rampaux

Sue him! the tube site will be subpoenaed for that users information. See what rabbit hole that leads you down. If you sue 100s of users it will be interesting to see what kind of information you get back from the site. The person uploading the content is breaking the law, no question, no one can contest that. Sue the users, make the site produce the documents and then see what you have.

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Nathan

DWB, you just posted the _EXACT REASON_ why DMCA EXISTS...

Thank you.

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DWB

I can only speak for myself, but I simply do not have the funds to chase rabbit holes. I'd love to, but I don't roll like that.



Of course that's why it exists, because you can't police it all. I understand that. But that is not what we are talking about.

You may have the rights to those videos. So what I'm saying is, how do you know if you don't look at them? How do you know someone is not loading child porn onto your server? How do you know if you had a license to my videos or not? How do you know if you don't look at them? Do you just assume you have a license to every video in the world until you are told otherwise?

It comes down to two options, and we all know which one is the accurate one:

1) You don't police the video at all until a video is flagged by a copyright owner or a site user. In which case why do you buy a license at all for any content?

2) You look at every video in search for the ones you have a license for. If you have a license, you leave it. If you don't and it's not on a partner account, you know it's stolen, pretend it isn't, and leave it anyway until someone sends you a notice.

So why look at all right?

In a word, that is unethical in every sense of the word, and you know it.

That is stealing until you get caught, which carries no consequences because of one flawed law. It's hard to say you are not a thief when you operate in this manner.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

Don't bother replying, I have read enough to see it's business as usual for the pirate kings.

DWB

Forgot to add to my first reply on this...

Do you think a multi-million dollar company like Manwin is going to take the risk and have users uploading from their office? It will be spread out, probably across the world, impossible to track. They are brazilliant and ripping people off and have had plenty of time to get their ducks in a row, and now currently, protect their assets with this Mansef to Manwin change.

Nathan

DWB,

As a side note, we do not upload content we do not own licenses to ourselves..

Regarding your question, the point of DMCA is that as long as a third party uploads content, we can not know what rights that uploader has... On top of that, us owning licenses makes it even harder...

Content is checked for illegal content, like child porn or beastiality. Stuff we miss the community flags and it is removed.

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signupdamnit

Please tell us more about how you check the videos and your policies and methods. For instance is each new video checked for Child Porn and Bestiality by your staff?

Nathan

Yes it is, and no it is not breaking dmca rules, and no it does not mean we could find all infringing content too that way, because copyrighted is not the same as infringing.

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signupdamnit

Thanks. I didn't mean to imply that you were breaking DMCA rules. So is it accurate to say that each new video is manually checked by a member of your staff prior to being accessible by the general public? Or are videos immediately activated and later checked ASAP? What would you say is the average turnaround time for a new video to be checked (if it is not initially disabled prior to being checked by pornhub staff?)

Also if you would please answer my questions regarding the "anonymous" account I would be grateful.

I'm just trying to understand how it all works and what the process is.

Nathan

I do not have answers for these right now, I will find out for you. I do not occupy myself personally with exact procedures, just general things.

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signupdamnit

Understood. I'll check back later in the week and bookmark the topic.

will76

its all fun and games till one of these tube site owners get hurt. It's bound to happen sooner or later.

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DWB

They hide and operate behind only 1 law. Unfortunately, there is also 1 law that keeps them all alive and out of harms way. But we can always dream....

If someone breaks into my house to steal everything I own, or simply steals 1 mini DV tape, without a second thought, will shoot and kill them where they stand with no remorse. By law I am permitted to do so. It is a crying shame there is not just 1 more law that allows me to do the same for stealing my property when it is outside of my home. It would be a glorious time to be alive if we could protect our property by force, anywhere our property may be. At the very least cut their hands off. It would cut thievery down with a quickness. Though, there is always going to be some dick head who thinks he's smarter than everyone else, but they all get caught sooner or later. OFF WITH YOUR HANDS!

I would think cutting off a hand would be a lot easier than cutting of a dogs head.

gideongallery

so if your so sure why don't you put up a security bond to cover all legal expenses if they get sued for deleting the video.

remember fair use also authorizes uploading.

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charlie g

bumping for nathan/fabian's answers

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SmokeyTheBear

it is not a problem at youtube ,google,twitter,facebook or any other law abiding company fyi. I have never seen a law that requires you to host files for people you have reason to believe are criminals.

But let's not beat around the bush , you can delete any file for any reason you want. You would delete a video if a person appeared underage right ? without proof right ? because it is the right thing to do , so don't play games, do the right thing, don't look the other way for criminals because it makes you more profit.

__________________
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SmokeyTheBear

nobody has ever sued a company for deleting a video uploaded from an account that committed an illegal act and violated its service terms.

If you are so sure this is not the case then why don't you put up a security bond to cover all legal expenses if they get sued for not deleting a video uploaded by a criminal .?

remember copyright theft is a criminal act.

__________________
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Why

just to play devils advocate here.... how do we know that they dont license some of these full length videos? i have full lengths on a number of tubes that i run, all of which are legally licensed. some studios are broke these days and licensing for pennies on the dollar.

so how about, just to keep things easier to deal with in the future, we only bitch about content WE KNOW FOR A FACT is indeed infrining... ie; stop bitching to bitch and start bitching about whats your business and ONLY your business.

oh and surfers upload tons of shit, as barefootsies said.. they do it to get virtual high-fives from their little online 'friends'.

if you people are so worried about your content... go look on IRC!

charlie g

Plain Fact IS Smokey.................... if Fabian/Nathan take down all videos that dont hold license for no one would visit the site. They cant take down these videos.. You think they want to give brazzers full videos for free? This is a big fucking game for this fucking shmuck.

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charlie g

OK, so we know that the videos that the user who posted DWB's videos didnt own license...but the other 2300 videos, he or Manwich owned the license. This is fucking bullshit that simply defies common sense! If this fucking fabian shill really had sincere intention to clean up these sites he would immediately delete ALL of these videos . Instead, he is going to hide behind some bullshit DMCA law that isn't even a law. No one has a RIGHT to post videos on any site... it is the site operator who has editorial prerogative. Their is no free speech right to uploading porn.... it's just bullshit from nathan/fabian. He is a game player, and a smirking, smarmy little fuck.

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seanchai

What a crock of bullshit. "Under DMCA law" ... ??? It is your site and your servers and your TOC - you can delete what you want, you fucking cunt.

borked

So, if a video was uploaded with a watermark saying "This is content that cannot be re-distributed anywhere", it will never go live?

All the more reason folks to check in on the ideas being discussed/implemented in https://gfy.com/showthread.php?p=17593395

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Nathan

Borked, if it is noticed, yes it would not go online, you are correct.

The others telling me how it's my site, how I have editorial rights, how I can decide what comes up or not... All of you, have not understood DMCA. It clearly says we can not select. So no, the USER has editorial rights, we do not, that's the whole point of a tube. We do have the right to screen for illegal content.

Possibly removing all content when banning a user for dmca is ok, but until I discuss it with our lawyers I can not comment on it.

Just because people on GFY want me to do something does not mean I will.

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Robbie

I've owned websites a LOT longer than you have. And I've owned content a LOT longer than you have...unless you were a big site owner dating back to the mid-1990's.

And you are looking really dumb when you say you can't take something down off of your own site. Bullshit. And everyone knows that. There is NO law in existence that says you have to have anything on Pornhub. You could delete the entire site right now if you wanted to. You could decide to shut it down and take it offline if you wanted to...or does DMCA say you "can't" LOL

WTF kind of b.s. is this? Pornhub is just a website. One of millions. It isn't some kind of national treasure that must be protected at all costs. You can delete every video right now if you want to.

You could find JESUS today and decide it's going to be an all religious tube from now on and go in there and delete every porn video in the data base and replace them all with Christian videos. No law says you can't.

No way you're this damn dumb. I think you are just doing another version of trolling to piss people off.

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ClaudiaMarie.Com

Matyko

Nathan you are a fucking thief and I hope you rot in jail soon with your friends.

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seanchai

No but you could have the class and morals not to thieve our content. I used to have the class not to want to *!*^ you in the face if I came in contact with you ... yet I'd now encourage anybody whose content you've profited from, to do so!

You are a thief. You are using a gray area of the law as a loophole to get around it. Frankly, I'm surprised you can walk the streets without fearing what is coming up behind you.

Nathan

I do not believe in violence.. if you do, I'm very sorry for you...

Robbie,
Deleting the whole site is completely different than taking down one specific video or a group of videos without a red-flag knowledge or DMCA. I would consider it selecting content. But again, I am not a lawyer, and because of that we are checking with some... until they tell me their opinion, I am not going to change anything, how ever often you call me a thief, stupid or an idiot.

BTW, I've been online since 1995 and done work in the adult entertainment industry since 1996.

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signupdamnit

When do you think you will you be able to discuss this with your lawyers? As you can see there are many people who are upset over the issue and who would appreciate swift action.

Nathan

Tuesday.

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signupdamnit

Nice to see.

seanchai

You should believe in violence, it happens everyday and has tragic endings. How many people's businesses have to be ruined before someone resorts to it?

You are basically talking shit though. You saying, you don't have the right to selectively delete something from your own server? Now, you know as well as everybody else here does, that is absolute rubbish. Lawyers have nothing to do with it. It's your site, your rules - you can delete what you want, when you want.

Nathan

Are you pretending, or are you actually this stupid? Not only are you threatening physical violence in a public forum, you are also completely oblivious to DMCA rules. Get it in your head, IT IS NOT FOR ME TO DECIDE WHAT GOES UP ON THE SITE OR NOT!! If I start deciding that, I lose safe harbor under DMCA, and rightly so.

I'm done with you though, so do not even bother replying anymore, at least not to me.

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seanchai

Are you actually this stupid? Show me one place, where I've threatened you at all? Pull your head out of your arse, son.

It IS for you to decide what goes up, you have that choice. You have editorial control.
Either stop lying to us, or stop lying to yourself.

signupdamnit

I don't believe you threatened him either but I think he took it that way. He's agreed to talk the matter over with a lawyer so I think we should leave him alone and see what he has to say then. I can't see a lawyer advising him that he cannot remove all videos uploaded by a terminated user and/or disable all videos uploaded by a suspended user. Especially since that is what Youtube essentially does. If the lawyers state otherwise then it will be....most interesting.

seanchai

Maybe he took it that way because he does know what he's doing is wrong - and watches his back.
He's not talking to a lawyer ... he's paying us lip-service. He knows what is what.

Ron Bennett

Save your money ... below an excerpt from the tube of all tubes YouTube - https://youtube.com/t/terms

7. Account Termination Policy

1. YouTube will terminate a user's access to the Service if, under appropriate circumstances, the user is determined to be a repeat infringer.

2. YouTube reserves the right to decide whether Content violates these Terms of Service for reasons other than copyright infringement, such as, but not limited to, pornography, obscenity, or excessive length. YouTube may at any time, without prior notice and in its sole discretion, remove such Content and/or terminate a user's account for submitting such material in violation of these Terms of Service.

In regards to editorial rights - that may be an issue if you were going to edit a particular work. Deletion of a work entirely is a different matter; not editorial.

Bottom line add something like the following to your TOS ... "If we receive two or more verified DMCA claims within any 30 calendar day period, your account will be terminated and all its associated content will be deleted." That may be a bit extreme, but you get the idea.

Then somewhere else in your TOS add something like "We reserve the right to delete any user uploaded content at any time, for any reason." as a catch-all to cover situations in which the user's content may be legal, but is offensive or somehow unsuitable for the service, such as being off-topic or too similar content, etc.

Ron

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