its not tubes, or tgp's, or free sites.....

[DVTimes]

Yes tubes and tgp's and forums where people post free pics and vids have stoped a lot of sales.

BUT there are more people on the net now than ever.

In theory the increased number of people now on the net should have meant the freeloaders would not affect sales.

OK, so the big tube sites may get a million hits say a day.

Thats still nothing when you look at say who are on the net from the USA alone. Then include the UK and then all the rest.

One must presume also that many on tubes sites are probably from say china and other countries where buying porn is not easy, plus (lets be honest) a lot of under 18 year olds with no credit cards.

So that leaves millions who could be joining your sites.

So where are these customers, or do these days they no longer want porn?

We are buying hits from tubes and tgp's. Basicly its the same customers being sent to each others sites. Its the same people. No new ones.

I posted a thread about facebook. And lets face it, thats what many now use the net for. They no longer serfe the web.

Mabe its that people now can get sex easer. Log into facebook, and find somone you know who wants no strings sex. No cost. Why bother with porn when you can do it for real.

Dogging too is more common. Drive out and find some bit in a carpark. Have sex, go home.

Mabe porn is no longer needed.

Or mabe it is.

The problem is getting new people to your site.

And thats the key to sales.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

,,,,

The problem is getting new people to your site.

And thats the key to sales.

NO, the key to sales is getting the people to pull their cc.

Getting new people to your site is step 1, converting them is step 2.

[tranza]

Get new people to your site is very easy............

[tiger]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

OK, so the big tube sites may get a million hits say a day.

There are many many tube sites that get more traffic than that each, if you add them up you aren't even in the ballpark. The huge bump that so many people got when just a few of these sites went down pretty much prove 100% where all the paying customers and traffic are are at.

[Shap]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Yes tubes and tgp's and forums where people post free pics and vids have stoped a lot of sales.

BUT there are more people on the net now than ever.

In theory the increased number of people now on the net should have meant the freeloaders would not affect sales.

OK, so the big tube sites may get a million hits say a day.

Thats still nothing when you look at say who are on the net from the USA alone. Then include the UK and then all the rest.

One must presume also that many on tubes sites are probably from say china and other countries where buying porn is not easy, plus (lets be honest) a lot of under 18 year olds with no credit cards.

So that leaves millions who could be joining your sites.

So where are these customers, or do these days they no longer want porn?

We are buying hits from tubes and tgp's. Basicly its the same customers being sent to each others sites. Its the same people. No new ones.

I posted a thread about facebook. And lets face it, thats what many now use the net for. They no longer serfe the web.

Mabe its that people now can get sex easer. Log into facebook, and find somone you know who wants no strings sex. No cost. Why bother with porn when you can do it for real.

Dogging too is more common. Drive out and find some bit in a carpark. Have sex, go home.

Mabe porn is no longer needed.

Or mabe it is.

The problem is getting new people to your site.

And thats the key to sales.

Roald is right. Convincing someone to pull out their cc is the key.

The numbers on Tubes is far more than a few sites doing a million a day.

Search for anything porn related in google. What are the first results? In many cases the tube sites dominate the SE results and with good reason.

[Highest Def]

I see it more as educating the surfer. I started some discussions on reditt asking 'would you ever pay for porn' and most of the answers were of course 'no', but the reasons are what surprised me.

A lot have been burned by porn sites before or just un-impressed. Show them an awesome members area with nice navigation and fast downloads and then compare that and the HD quality to the shitty quality on the average tube site, or the potential for a virus on the torrents, or the hassle of hunting for what they want and it's an easier sell.

[will76]

Originally Posted by DVTimes

Yes tubes and tgp's and forums where people post free pics and vids have stoped a lot of sales.

BUT there are more people on the net now than ever.

In theory the increased number of people now on the net should have meant the freeloaders would not affect sales.

OK, so the big tube sites may get a million hits say a day.

Thats still nothing when you look at say who are on the net from the USA alone. Then include the UK and then all the rest.

One must presume also that many on tubes sites are probably from say china and other countries where buying porn is not easy, plus (lets be honest) a lot of under 18 year olds with no credit cards.

So that leaves millions who could be joining your sites.

So where are these customers, or do these days they no longer want porn?

We are buying hits from tubes and tgp's. Basicly its the same customers being sent to each others sites. Its the same people. No new ones.

I posted a thread about facebook. And lets face it, thats what many now use the net for. They no longer serfe the web.

Mabe its that people now can get sex easer. Log into facebook, and find somone you know who wants no strings sex. No cost. Why bother with porn when you can do it for real.

Dogging too is more common. Drive out and find some bit in a carpark. Have sex, go home.

Mabe porn is no longer needed.

Or mabe it is.

The problem is getting new people to your site.

And thats the key to sales.

wrong on so many levels.

- Before facebook and myspace there were other sites like AOL, Plenty of Fish, Net Meeting etc. I used AOL back in the late 90s to meet many many girls. But I still surfed porn. Besides the fact that there has always been places for people to go to for free to meet people, the basis of your argument is more for how this would affect dating sites not porn sites.

- There is no porn on facebook, myspace, youtube, etc. While people might see "sexy" pictures there, why would they go around jerky off to clothed girls when they can go to a tube site and find any type of girl they like doing just about any sex act that turns them on and watch an hour long VIDEO of it. If anything the myspace, youtube etc. may get them horny and prompt them to go to other places to find the porn.

The two biggest problems affecting porn sites today:
1. 99% of the content I would pay to see I can find easily for free.
2. Credit cards... people's balances were reduced drastically over the last couple years. Many people are now maxed out, over the limit, unemployed and living off of their cc, lost their home, business, income, went bankrupt etc. Sorry, the myth I believed and many others is not true, Porn is not recession proof. We depend on credit cards, when credit cards have no more available balances or they are in collections and can't charge any more, you feel the fringes of a recession in porn.

I argued that porn was recession proof for years and I was wrong, but mainly because of our dependence on credit cards. One of my examples was, if someone is broke and smokes they still find a way to pay for cigarettes. However, they can pay for that with cash, boom a couple bucks off a friend, scrape some change up etc... if their credit card is maxed out they simply can't buy any more no matter what the item is. Also, if they were giving away cigarettes for free on every corner and all you have is a maxed out credit card in your pocket, do you think you ever going to make a sale from this person??? hell no.

[Dirty Dane]

The key is get people pull out cc before they come.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Dirty Dane

The key is get people pull out cc before they come.

and hope they aren't maxed out. The amount of declines is ridiculous. If everyone who wanted buy actually could, we all would be making a lot more money.

[pornguy]

One of the biggest issues with sales lately is the sites pissing off the surfers. If you dont know what I mean you most likely never will.

[Maxi]

Gota love all the people bitching about the tubes while putting out garbage paysites and expecting over $20 a month for it.

Offer something worth paying for and people will me more tempted to pay for it.

I'm not saying that piracy isn't a problem but people aren't trying to improve their shit at all while crying about piracy.

[tiger]

Originally Posted by Maxi

Gota love all the people bitching about the tubes while putting out garbage paysites and expecting over $20 a month for it.

Offer something worth paying for and people will me more tempted to pay for it.

I'm not saying that piracy isn't a problem but people aren't trying to improve their shit at all while crying about piracy.

You make a great point about people needing to improve their product and then completely negate it by calling people who are having their content stolen cry babies.

[Sam - Mr. Skin]

Originally Posted by Highest Def

I see it more as educating the surfer. I started some discussions on reditt asking 'would you ever pay for porn' and most of the answers were of course 'no', but the reasons are what surprised me.

A lot have been burned by porn sites before or just un-impressed. Show them an awesome members area with nice navigation and fast downloads and then compare that and the HD quality to the shitty quality on the average tube site, or the potential for a virus on the torrents, or the hassle of hunting for what they want and it's an easier sell.

I agree. It's definitely a tougher sale these days because of the rise of so many free sites, but that hasn't stopped many companies from flourishing. Using Mr. Skin as an example...

Yes, you could find a large percentage of the content that we have piece by piece on the internet, but what we offer is exactly what you described...hd quality, constant updates, no hassles, no risk of viruses and most importantly we are constantly showcasing our content by curating top ten lists, video playlists by theme/fetish, etc. so that users don't get bored with the site. If you truly care about your product and put the time in to make sure that you are near the top in your niche there are still plenty of sales to be had.

Originally Posted by Roald

NO, the key to sales is getting the people to pull their cc.

Getting new people to your site is step 1, converting them is step 2.

I also agree with this, but step 3 is getting people to stay for more than just a trial or a one month membership.

[Agent 488]

will is wrong as usual.

facebook commands more search traffic than google now. can't compare it to aol etc.

a lot of guys just whack it to facebook and similar sites. ex-gf sites are one of the few genres that sell anymore and the sites are pretty much sites scraped from social networking sites. that kind of sites and content is what people want now. people get off on real chicks, clothed or not. just part of a general trend towards the amateur in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cult_of_the_Amateur

porn due to societal pressures exists in a ghetto technologically and socially. it is doubtful it was ever the cutting edge like the prevailing myths claim.

technology, society and the economy is evolving quickly and porn is frozen in about 2004 and there is not much that can be done about it because porn will most likely always been a pariah industry.

Originally Posted by will76

wrong on so many levels.

- Before facebook and myspace there were other sites like AOL, Plenty of Fish, Net Meeting etc. I used AOL back in the late 90s to meet many many girls. But I still surfed porn. Besides the fact that there has always been places for people to go to for free to meet people, the basis of your argument is more for how this would affect dating sites not porn sites.

- There is no porn on facebook, myspace, youtube, etc. While people might see "sexy" pictures there, why would they go around jerky off to clothed girls when they can go to a tube site and find any type of girl they like doing just about any sex act that turns them on and watch an hour long VIDEO of it. If anything the myspace, youtube etc. may get them horny and prompt them to go to other places to find the porn.

The two biggest problems affecting porn sites today:
1. 99% of the content I would pay to see I can find easily for free.
2. Credit cards... people's balances were reduced drastically over the last couple years. Many people are now maxed out, over the limit, unemployed and living off of their cc, lost their home, business, income, went bankrupt etc. Sorry, the myth I believed and many others is not true, Porn is not recession proof. We depend on credit cards, when credit cards have no more available balances or they are in collections and can't charge any more, you feel the fringes of a recession in porn.

I argued that porn was recession proof for years and I was wrong, but mainly because of our dependence on credit cards. One of my examples was, if someone is broke and smokes they still find a way to pay for cigarettes. However, they can pay for that with cash, boom a couple bucks off a friend, scrape some change up etc... if their credit card is maxed out they simply can't buy any more no matter what the item is. Also, if they were giving away cigarettes for free on every corner and all you have is a maxed out credit card in your pocket, do you think you ever going to make a sale from this person??? hell no.

[Agent 488]

also most porn sites are just based around credit card upsells. they could be selling porn, berries or teeth whiteners.

[carzygirls]

Originally Posted by Agent 488

will is wrong as usual.

facebook commands more search traffic than google now. can't compare it to aol etc.

a lot of guys just whack it to facebook and similar sites. ex-gf sites are one of the few genres that sell anymore and the sites are pretty much sites scraped from social networking sites. that kind of sites and content is what people want now. people get off on real chicks, clothed or not. just part of a general trend towards the amateur in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cult_of_the_Amateur

porn due to societal pressures exists in a ghetto technologically and socially. it is doubtful it was ever the cutting edge like the prevailing myths claim.

technology, society and the economy is evolving quickly and porn is frozen in about 2004 and there is not much that can be done about it because porn will most likely always been a pariah industry.

Very well said

Too bad the exgf sites seem to not want to pay affiliates...

[will76]

Originally Posted by Maxi

Gota love all the people bitching about the tubes while putting out garbage paysites and expecting over $20 a month for it.

Offer something worth paying for and people will me more tempted to pay for it.

I'm not saying that piracy isn't a problem but people aren't trying to improve their shit at all while crying about piracy.

piracy is a problem when people are giving away everything you are trying to charge them for. yeah i agree what you said, which basically means the sites need to offer the customers something really good, and ideally something that can't be stolen.

[will76]

Originally Posted by carzygirls

Very well said

Too bad the exgf sites seem to not want to pay affiliates...

thanks for quoting that idiot so i could see it

The facebook steals all your porn sales argument is so laughable. I wont waste my time trying to convince you other wise. just close up shop now, facebook stolez all yours traffiz and salez.

People just look for an excuse for everything. It's the tube sites giving away too much content for free... yeah all those people wanting to see 1 hour clip porn is killing us... yeah and then there is those people who jack off to girls with their clothes on yeah, those people are killing us... so which is it, girls with clothes on killing your sales or girls on video getting rammed by 3 dudes for an hour killing your sales.??

Reminds me of the people who think every day is a "Slow down", summer, winter, schools in, school is out, tax day, easter, bad weather days, good weather days, sporting events on, spring break.... when people are all over the map blamming everything why they are doing bad they always fail to stop and look in the mirror at the real problem. Sure there are a couple factors out there that are really not helping sales, but to go from girls with clothes on, on myspace is hurting sales all the way to full length 1 hour hardcore videos is hurting sales, then you just hurting. get the fuck out and do yourself a favor, you just looking for excuses for everything.

[chronig]

Originally Posted by will76

thanks for quoting that idiot so i could see it

The facebook steals all your porn sales argument is so laughable. I wont waste my time trying to convince you other wise. just close up shop now, facebook stolez all yours traffiz and salez.

People just look for an excuse for everything. It's the tube sites giving away too much content for free... yeah all those people wanting to see 1 hour clip porn is killing us... yeah and then there is those people who jack off to girls with their clothes on yeah, those people are killing us... so which is it, girls with clothes on killing your sales or girls on video getting rammed by 3 dudes for an hour killing your sales.??

Reminds me of the people who think every day is a "Slow down", summer, winter, schools in, school is out, tax day, easter, bad weather days, good weather days, sporting events on, spring break.... when people are all over the map blamming everything why they are doing bad they always fail to stop and look in the mirror at the real problem. Sure there are a couple factors out there that are really not helping sales, but to go from girls with clothes on, on myspace is hurting sales all the way to full length 1 hour hardcore videos is hurting sales, then you just hurting. get the fuck out and do yourself a favor, you just looking for excuses for everything.

Aren't you currently unemployed???

If you don't think the interactivity of Facebook hurts porn sales then you need to retire from any kind of e-business for the rest of your life. Back to McDonalds you go, champ.

[FlexxAeon]

so damn sick of this topic coming up

Originally Posted by Agent 488

porn due to societal pressures exists in a ghetto technologically and socially. it is doubtful it was ever the cutting edge like the prevailing myths claim.

technology, society and the economy is evolving quickly and porn is frozen in about 2004 and there is not much that can be done about it because porn will most likely always been a pariah industry.

THANK YOU

instead of going down the innovation path, we just decided to throw more traffic at shit.

the technological ghetto is self imposed

[will76]

Originally Posted by chronig

Aren't you currently unemployed???

If you don't think the interactivity of Facebook hurts porn sales then you need to retire from any kind of e-business for the rest of your life. Back to McDonalds you go, champ.

who the hell said i was unemployed ?

I guess technically I am unemployed and have been for 11 years since I own and run my own business and haven't worked for someone else since 99.

Don't believe all of the bullshit the trolls post on here.


If you believe Facebook hurts porn sales I think you are an idiot. To be clear, any amount worth mentioning. I can't say a hand full of people aren't affected by it. But there is about 100 other things i would say would affect porn sales more than facebook, i doubt facebook would contribute to more than 1% of the reason why your sales are down. It's laughable. If you believe face book affects your sales you also probably believe that your sales are suppose to tank during the summer. lol sheep.

I'll inform the christian right they can celebrate now, all these years they tried to do away with porn, all they needed was face book. With everyone spending so much time on facebook, hardly anyone looking at porn any more I guess people stopped jerking off too, people are too busy chatting on facebook to get horny anymore.

you people are too much.

[Major (Tom)]

Originally Posted by Roald

NO, the key to sales is getting the people to pull their cc.

Getting new people to your site is step 1, converting them is step 2.

actually, step 1 is getting them to your site. Step 2, is up for debate. Step 3 is getting them to pull out their credit card
ds

[KillerK]

It's not facebook, it's the tubes, look at how many views the videos get. Why would people pay when they get it for free.

It's like asking people to pay for music, if Napster was still around. Napster single handily killed music sales. No way would iTunes sell a billion songs if it was still here.

[will76]

Originally Posted by KillerK

It's not facebook, it's the tubes, look at how many views the videos get. Why would people pay when they get it for free.

It's like asking people to pay for music, if Napster was still around. Napster single handily killed music sales. No way would iTunes sell a billion songs if it was still here.

nooo , its facebook, people are too busy talking to friends to jerk off any more or look at porn. Their dicks have actually gone limp and shrunk from lack of use. Lucky for us we can try to spam facebook with penis pills to keep making money since facebook caused all of our porn site sales to go away.

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Roald

NO, the key to sales is getting the people to pull their cc.

Getting new people to your site is step 1, converting them is step 2.

Very true.. Well before tubes came along, I found that conversions started getting worse due to a couple factors.

1. all the FHGs started being done by designers and are piss poor at converting. They make them like magazine ads and you typically can't even find a GOOD call to action link on them.

2. Paysite owners forgot that people making 30k a year are just as much interested in joining a porn site as those that are making 100k. They started designing their paysites that were loaded with graphics, flash etc. etc. etc. such that consumers without a great computer system or internet connection had to wait for the site to load and couldn't even watch videos etc. on the tour.

That was when I started to see a decline in conversion ratios. For some reason people forgot that it's about the porn, the fucking, the hot girls, and it's not about cool websites.

[comeplay]

maybe the problem isn't entirely the porn industries, maybe it's the way people are being raised..

Why spend money to whack off to porn when you can find some ho on facebook, myspace, stickam, ifriends, hi8, plentyoffish, craigslist and for next to nothing you can invite her over and fuck, who knows, if you're good maybe it will be a long term thing.. hell if you are good at balancing get yourself 5 regulars and there you go a full week. every week. Don't believe me? I'm sure there are blogs about it.. tucker max got famous for it and hes on his 2nd movie deal now and what 3rd or 4th book?

Young adults these days aren't staying home looking at porn in their bedrooms they are too busy fucking their slutty girlfriends(or her friends) in their moms caddy when they are suppose to be out at a movie. Generation next could give two fucks about watching weird niche porn except to laugh and ridicule with their friends.. the only ones buying are the older generation cause that's all that gets them off any more.

look at what has risen over the years, teen pregnancy rates, abortion rates, health insurance rates..

What has dropped? IQ's, panties, condom sales, porn sales (oh noessss)

[will76]

Originally Posted by comeplay

maybe the problem isn't entirely the porn industries, maybe it's the way people are being raised..

Why spend money to whack off to porn when you can find some ho on facebook, myspace, stickam, ifriends, hi8, plentyoffish, craigslist and for next to nothing you can invite her over and fuck, who knows, if you're good maybe it will be a long term thing.. hell if you are good at balancing get yourself 5 regulars and there you go a full week. every week. Don't believe me? I'm sure there are blogs about it.. tucker max got famous for it and hes on his 2nd movie deal now and what 3rd or 4th book?

Young adults these days aren't staying home looking at porn in their bedrooms they are too busy fucking their slutty girlfriends(or her friends) in their moms caddy when they are suppose to be out at a movie. Generation next could give two fucks about watching weird niche porn except to laugh and ridicule with their friends.. the only ones buying are the older generation cause that's all that gets them off any more.

look at what has risen over the years, teen pregnancy rates, abortion rates, health insurance rates..

What has dropped? IQ's, panties, condom sales, porn sales (oh noessss)

There has always been sites where you could meet girls online for free. If meeting people in person affects anything it would be paid dating sites. Sorry, every time a guy gets the urge to jerk off he can't pick up the phone and get a booty call. He gets online and looks at porn. Besides the vast majority of porn buyers wouldn't even know what to do with a girl, or are married or live in a rural area or have situations where they can't just go fuck any girl they want, when ever they want.

The only thing that is being changed with this new generation, or at least in the last 5 years is that kids now are growing up knowing that porn is free, its something you get for free you are stupid to buy. Pretty much everyone under 23 feels this way. The people who are in their 30s or older were online in the days where if you wanted to see something you paid for it. And most of them these days aren't up to date with where all of the new places to see porn for free is. That is evident with how many people continue to go back to places like the hun. While a few might prefer pictures over videos (can't imagine many) the majority of those people keep going back because they just don't know that there is better free content out there. Eventually everyone will know about it, and each year that kids turn 18 and can buy, they wont, because they were raised to not spend when they know where to find it for free.

It will only get worst for those of you who continue to try to sell a product that people can find for free.

[Roald]

Originally Posted by will76

.......

The only thing that is being changed with this new generation, or at least in the last 5 years is that kids now are growing up knowing that porn is free, its something you get for free you are stupid to buy. Pretty much everyone under 23 feels this way. The people who are in their 30s or older were online in the days where if you wanted to see something you paid for it. And most of them these days aren't up to date with where all of the new places to see porn for free is. That is evident with how many people continue to go back to places like the hun. While a few might prefer pictures over videos (can't imagine many) the majority of those people keep going back because they just don't know that there is better free content out there. Eventually everyone will know about it, and each year that kids turn 18 and can buy, they wont, because they were raised to not spend when they know where to find it for free.

It will only get worst for those of you who continue to try to sell a product that people can find for free.

Thats just part of what changed for the "new generation". In the old days people got online cause of the porn they could find. These days people go online to go on FB, YT, twitter, etc. People are way more interactive and involved in the net and there is so much more to do on the net these days then lets say 10 years ago.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Roald

Thats just part of what changed for the "new generation". In the old days people got online cause of the porn they could find. These days people go online to go on FB, YT, twitter, etc. People are way more interactive and involved in the net and there is so much more to do on the net these days then lets say 10 years ago.

i've had this same conversation so many times.

yes i agree there is more to do now. But does that mean people look at porn less *or* perhaps they spend more total time online. For example, if they spent 3 hours a day online in 2000 and 2 hours of it was looking at porn, and in 2010 they probably spend 6 hours a day online and two of it can still be looking at porn, 4 doing other things. yes people spend more time online, but it doesn't mean they look at porn less. It also doesn't mean they stopped being horny or jerking off less.

People spend less time working, sleeping, going out, playing outside, watching tv, etc... so they can spend more time playing online.

I hear the "look at all the people on facebook" etc etc... yeah and look at the alexa rankings of the top 3 tube sites. Just because facebook type sites hits go up that is no indicator that porn site hits or sales will go down. It looks more like an excuse to why people's sales are down. "oh my sales are down, well fuck look at all of the people on facebook that must be why " no one thinks it through. They just try to find an excuse/reason and latch on to it so they can make themselves feel better.

[Agent 488]

in the end this isn't debating club. the landscape or eyeballs and traffic has changed whether you like it or not. like debates about tubes a couple years ago stopped them from taking over pretty much all adult traffic today. carry on, as they say.

[DVTimes]

the question is: do people still want to pay for porn?

if yes then sales should be increasing.

If no, then people will need to re-think things.

[TeenCat]

its not tubes, or tgp's, or free sites..... so it must be superman!

[Lykos]

Originally Posted by Roald

NO, the key to sales is getting the people to pull their cc.

Getting new people to your site is step 1, converting them is step 2.

Very nicely said !