Tam

I couldn't agree more here. I see a lot of "I had", "I did" and so on..... and trust me when I say, Loki, I was so like that too. Nothing ever gets done looking back over your shoulder, so what you were successful then, you aren't now... and I mean that with all the utmost respect I can muster. But I say that from experience, in everything.

I had a couple of nervous breakdowns, one before the Adult Industry and one since and because of this industry, and it took me a great deal of time to get thru them, but the second one was far easier to get out of. I woke up one day and realized that nothing back there was going to help me right now, looking backwards can cause you to miss an opportunity that is right in front of your face, don't let that happen, I did that very thing a couple of times myself.

Find a positive in EVERY bad situation and put that situation on the shelf and keep the positives in your head to get you moving forward...... the bad things are just there to trip you up, and you are allowing it.

You are uber talented - positive, keep that in your head and move FORWARD.. looking over your shoulder at what was is keeping you from using that talent to get money coming in that you know is there.

I don't know you well, but trust me, I know being kicked in the teeth... and the only person that can get you out of this funk you are in is you, be positive, move forward and drive your talent in the direction it needs to be in. I've seen a lot of very smart people in this thread trying to help you and you meet them all with "I can't" for whatever reason.. stop doing that and let them help you! This negativity is going to eat you alive and then you WILL be in the streets.. you are smarter than that, let it drive you, not stop you dead in your tracks.

I wish you the best. I am in no position to really help you, if I could, I would. You have a lot of great ideas being thrown at you, you use them and do the best you can do and you will be fine.

__________________

Linguist

Yep. Listen to Tam. No one here means ill and a lot of us went through similar situations.

There's absolutely no reason for you to not launch a simple Wordpress site, processing with Zombaio (like suggested earlier) until you get your things together. Then you can launch the next site, and the next one, and the next one, each looking better than the last. By the time you're done 5th site you'll hopefully have enough cash to do a redesign of your first site + launch the affiliate program.

No reason to wait for a huge grand opening of 5 sites + affiliate program.

__________________
315-310

BJ

shut up you pussies

suesheboy

1) You never researched properly your key vendors nor had back ups of everything. You had no emergency plans if part of your system failed. Business 101. You can blow up both of my houses and my host and I along with all of my clients will be up and running in hours.

2) You never made enough money to advertise? You couldn't find Affiliates yet you post here?

3)You signed and exclusive agreement with a company that can not supply you with enough volume to survive and have no exit clause of they can not perform.

4)You can't see the forest for the trees. You are blind to the present, deluded about the past, and until your thinking is disrupted, the future is a fail.


Speak to your mentors, go back to school and get that worthless piece of paper. You won't regret it.

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Frank21

Thanks Loki for 1 hell of a deal you made me the other day.
Some quite unique content i wouldnt know where to get anywere else

__________________

Loki

(WARNING LOOOONG READ AHEAD, BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH THE READ)

Suesheboy, I THINK this will be the last time I bother to respond to you, no offense but all you seem to be doing is making wild assumptions and twisting around what I say to try and make more wild assumptions, We don't know eachother that's for sure, I have no clue what you do in this industry and reading your posts about me it's pretty clear you don't know what I do...

this is half correct, but even the best people in business make mistakes, no one is perfect after all. I took the fact that a major webmaster board (of that time) was trusting in the host for their forum, program and paysites and that was good enough for me to go with them.

I had fully managed dedi boxes there, & paid for offsite backups

I did moonlight design work for the company and spoke with the owner on almost a daily basis and I NEVER saw a single thing that would lead me to believe they were anything less then the reputable company they claimed to be.

I hired a coder to create my custom backend scripts who flaked and vanished from the adult biz. I ADMIT at that point I SHOULD have created a backup plan for the backends I did not and that's my fault, no question about it. But even the best ppl in business make dumb ass mistakes.

One more time though I DID have backups, multiple backups,onsite and offsite and I also PAID for remote backups and no amount of planning can cover shit like a fire, theft, or hardware failure, you don't know my situation nor do you know me.

Again you choose to either NOT read what I wrote OR you just choose to twist my words...

I never had the capital the BIG COMPANIES had, nor did I have ARMIES of affiliates the big companies have.

I know first hand that larger companies have THOUSANDS and thousands of affils, they pay people to sig whore, and bump all their threads, they hold contests and constantly push their name and brand, they have people who's job it is to post on ALL the boards in as many threads as possible, they skin boards, they take out full page ads in magazines, they sponsor events, do give aways etc etc I never was at that level and that is what I said. (And I'm not bitching about that actually)

I was a one man operation, with a few people who helped where they could, but at the end of the day I was the cook, dishwasher and server of the operation, I chose to spend my time building content, working with affils, and further researching my market.

Even after all these years, and interviews / writeups in AVN, KLIXXX, XBIZ many people still don't know who the hell I am, mainly because I did not spend all day posting on the boards (Again I'm NOT bitching lol)

Once again you speak on an issue you have ZERO knowledge of, I will not explain it to you either but the deal that was created worked for both parties.

Thank you for your blind wisdom on a perfect stranger, this thread has deff taken many strange twists and turns, what started out as a "fire sale" has now spiraled into a few armchair business coaches who think they know all about me even though they've never met me nor would they know me if they passed me on the street.

You with your touting "don't sell your content, it dilutes your value" that would be like telling a hosting company to NOT let people on their servers

I'm currently a content producer, I make and sell content to other companies, why on earth would/should I NOT sell my content.

Then when I mention I MAY restart my program (MAY being the operative word here) I get ppl telling me what to do and if I don't jump right on it I'm told I'm negative and I have a failure mindset

Then someone tells me to "enter contests" "Try online poker" (okay THAT was funny) etc etc etc I did not ASK for advice in this thread, (Not that I'm above taking advice) I did not ask anyone to save me by showing me the mistakes THEY THINK I've made past present or future, I came here, stated my situation and OFFERED A SALE ON MY PACKAGES, some of you (smelling blood so to speak) have swarmed the thread like sharks, OR have tried to turn this thread into an intervention lol.

As I've said before in the thread I'd be more then fine if 'clients' just paid their invoices, but since stalling and or not paying is becoming more and more widespread (In a few days OR Next Week seem to be this industry's new mantras) I'd rather STOP producing/selling content and just get a job working for a company.

I'd like to thank everyone who offered kind words and bumps, those who ordered (and paid lol) and those who offered mini jobs and opportunities throughout this thread.

I will close this out by asking a few questions to those who have chosen this thread to try and school me on HOW and WHAT I should be doing with my business model....

Do YOU run or HAVE you RAN your own Toon program or Toon paysites?

Do you have any actual knowledge of the cartoon market to begin with?

Do you KNOW what it takes to KEEP a member recurring month after month after month?

Would YOU promote a tiny wordpress Toon paysite running on a semi known processor who may or may not have stat issues (Last I read about Zombaio there were MANY issues with stats and tracking, and many did not "trust" them and wanted to WAIT until they were more established before risking their hard earned traffic on them)

Would you even promote a Toon rev share site over PPS these days, ESPECIALLY when you can promote a "SIMILAR" site WITH PPS (From what I've personally seen more and more people ONLY want to promote PPS which is one of the reasons I question even re-launching in the first place as a Revshare company)

The text that you have entered is too long (12579 characters). Please shorten it to 10000 characters long....

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Loki

Concluded....

People love to drop the tired adage "Adapt Or Die" but very few really adhere to it, I myself HAVE adapted time and time again and each time it has lead to what I consider to be success, keep in mind the term "success" is different to each person.

When I started selling content I just made packages, listed them on the various boards, contacted content buyers of various companies and that worked fine.

Since July that method has changed, companies slowed WAY down on their buying habits (some companies even told me point blank "It doesn't matter if we update the content" (wonder why some of your sales suck these days??)

I switched up and adapted again, instead of spending weeks (or months if it's video content) creating content that might not sell I instead created spec works and 'pitched it' to companies, IF there were interests (AND DEPOSITS) I went forward and created the package and then invoiced / delivered to the companies.

For months now NOTHING has sold, and at last count I have over $10k in "PENDING INVOICES" (These are invoices from people who contacted ME and said "I want this, this, and this package what kind of deal can you give me?" I say $___________ they say "_______ Send the invoice over and lets do this!" (or words to that effect) Some of those invoices go back over a year as well, and every few weeks I'm told "Oh sorry been busy, I forgot, I'll get that to you first of the week"

I can't "call them out" since they have not gotten any content, and as they say... a deal ain't a deal till money changes hands.

MOST of my long time buyers (People who bought from me every month for example) have now disappeared "Last seen X months ago" is shown on their ICQ status, and emails being returned with "no such address" or "mailbox full" and standing invoices sit for months without being paid, ALL OF THIS tells me it's time to look at my current business model once again.

IF the buyers are not buying, updating, or even around anymore and more and more sites are just running on "auto pilot" (which is true even away from the toon industry) one can think one of two things....

1) There's no more money in porn

2) There is a global thinning of the herd

While BOTH are true to a point there is LESS money in certain types of porn (IE less in memberships, but maybe not less in micro payments) not "NO MORE" and the herd is indeed thinning, we all (should) know that it hasn't been 1996 - 2004 for quite some time now and one needs to WORK for every sale they get now, and they really need to work even harder to KEEP every sale they get.

Irregardless it puts me in the position where I need to adapt or die once again.

Now I'm weighing out the pros and cons to decide IF I want to relaunch a program (With MULTIPLE SITES and a "Pass site" IE buy one get access to all 5)

WHY MULTIPLE SITES? to better serve both the surfers AND the affils, giving more options to affils to send their traffic to and more ways to convert my content to sales for them, for the surfer I can cater to their specific tastes and not loose sales cause I'm running the wrong niche or a cluster of diff niches. (As I've said many times here and over the years the toon market is a totally diff animal then your "real" teen, reality, anal, milf etc sites.

Also processing plays a HUGE part in "doing it right" because as some of you are totally unaware of back in 2006-2007 companies like CCBILL decided that "anything not 100% "human" was now banned and dubbed bestiality" that made a third of my content unusable since I had content with wings, tails, fur, monsters, tentacles, and aliens were now a no no for MANY billing companies.

indecently THAT content SELLS and CONVERTS like mad, and IF I can't use it (or even sell it to buyers who run via CCBILL) what do you do then? do you throw away hundreds of sets and miss out on a big chunk of sales? Or do you use a 3rd world processor who could fold and steal your cash at any moment (it's happened how many times now in the past?)

If I bank up the cash and use my own merchant accounts how do I protect myself FULLY from carders and fraud?

It's NOT a "failure mindset" or "negative energy" type thing, these are all serious things that need to be considered before taking a leap of this nature, so I use the words IF, MAY, MIGHT because I've not fully weighed all the options and risks out yet.

The other option for me is to FIND a company that will scoop me up and add me to their team, THAT is my best case scenario if you stop and think about it,

I have the skills, damn near EVERYONE in this thread has typed/said/inferred just that, even the people who have "trolled" me in a roundabout or direct way have all said "You have the talent"

But no one seems to be hiring remote workers, OR seem to be hiring at all.

The final option is to just pack it up and call it a day, I've deff had a great run in this business and I'm sure I could have many more years ahead of me given the right circumstances. I also deff don't WANT to call it a day BUT If I can't get clients to pay their invoices, can't find new buyers, can't re-launch and or can't find a job then the final option just might be the option I have to go with.

Sorry for the long winded rant as it were, but I wanted to take this time and try to lay it all out there and 'correct' what I really never should have corrected in the first place, but hell I'm human and I have flaws just like the rest of you lol.

If you read this far you win a virutal cookie and a virtual glass of milk

Oh and to Tam: no need to worry about me, despite others in this threads versions of my life & Biz I'm fine, and the kids are fine (as they have always been) things can be better (as they always could be lol) But it was YOUR POST that made me realize just how much of a trainwreak this thread was turning into so I felt I had to step back in and make one loooong ass post to try and explain everything one last time.

-Loki-

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suesheboy

Originally Posted by Loki View Post
EVERYTHING I've done has made PERFECT business sense

But it didn't work, thus it was not perfect...it was your flawed sense

"but the deal that was created worked for both parties" didn't work. You are broke.

at last count I have over $10k in "PENDING INVOICES" (These are invoices from people who contacted ME and said "I want this, this, and this package what kind of deal can you give me?"

Since you are such a business wiz you understand these are Proformas or Quotes. They are not invoices.

more sites are just running on "auto pilot"
So make one...no make five DUH!

I'm currently a content producer, I make and sell content to other companies, why on earth would/should I NOT sell my content.
Because you can't sell it?

I had fully managed dedi boxes there, & paid for offsite backups
Did you audit them? Confirmed they worked? Did you have physical possession of them? Or were these sitting on server and you hoped they were good and being updated?

I am not trying to bash you. You don't want help. You want reasons why the world is against you and why you can't do something because of others.

Edison would have failed. He did hundreds of times with the light bulb before he got one to work.

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Eldon Hoke

Can you make anything this high quality?

Loki

I do realize you're not trying to bash me, I actually didn't at first until this afternoon when I went back and re-read this entire thread.

The thing is, I don't necessarily want help, IF someone came to this thread and wanted to hire me to work for their company I'd prolly jump on that, OR if someone came in and said "You got talent for sure, we should talk" I'd prolly talk to them.

but I deff don't want or need 'reasons' why the world is against me, because I don't think that the world is against me. I know what I've done, what worked and what did not work, I know what mistakes I've made and I know how not to repeat them.

People have said in this thread "I'm allowing the past to hold me back" or "I'm to hung up on the past" I don't see that myself, I know in the past I "succeeded" (my deff of success) and I KNOW I can succeed again once I figure which path to take, and how that translates to "failure mindset" or a "negative attitude" I'm totally lost

I try my best NOT to dwell on the past unless they are past successes, because then I look at what worked then that will work now, no use changing the wheel IF it's working.

I DO appreciate all the feedback given in this thread, and I have followed up on MOST of the things that people have advised (when applicable)

-Loki-

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- LOL -

dude you're a bore

go actually do something instead of posting here

chronig

Loki

Short Answer: YES

Longer Answer: It's takes allot longer to render each image of course and many times the software will crash depending on a few things but that varies from machine to machine.

In all honesty ALL of the stuff I've made in the past year IS that quality it just depends on the lighting used and the actual render size, (the larger the image the more quality you'll see)

-Loki-

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chronig

wtf? Post one render of yours that is as high quality as that.

Do it and I'm pretty sure you'll have some people ready to work with you.

Loki

My render boxes are tied up right now so I can't just crank out an full blown example, here is an example of "Higher Quality" rendered without shadows and a non IBL lighting kit (the same image rendered with shadows and an IBL light kits had a diff of night and day)

RIGHT CLICK / VIEW IMAGE for the full sized result!


-Loki-

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Tam

My post wasn't meant to offend you, Loki, it was meant, at least in my head, a means of trying to support you, letting you know that I, and I know others here (even if they'd never admit it) have been where you are. Frustrated, I won't say desperate, that seems a bit strong.... but frustrated, that is very visible, and I get that. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten and DO get frustrated and feel like I am just spinning my wheels trying to figure out where to start to dig out of the funk I get myself into sometimes. With work, personal, or any other aspect of my world. I get insanely frustrated sometimes and I go over in my head, every single thing you have done here in public.... so don't think for a split second I don't get where you are coming from. ESPECIALLY if you have a family, the frustration can be worse.

I mean, seriously. look at the talent you possess... as an artist myself, I envy your talent, I can paint on canvas and I can paint still life like no one's business.. but ask me to do anything with eyes and I am a total 1st grader at best..... or anything on the computer with graphics programs. I would kill to possess your talent..... my 13 yr old possesses the talent to do that, and I am in awe of anyone that can do it.

Having said that.. to get out of your funk, you just need to step back, evaluate that talent and respect it and use it. Take baby steps to get back that success you had. Don't do what I have tried to do so many times and take all of the steps at one time, it isn't going to do anything but make you more frustrated.....

Start with one site.... baby steps...... get it up and moving and make another, add that to the mix..... get it up and get it going... and on and on and on. 1 step at a time. I know you need money and you need it yesterday, but sell what you have now to people to get the fast cash.... and work on it yourself for your own means to an end. That's all I am trying to say.

I wasn't trying to imply that you don't have the capacity to move forward, you clearly DO.... and any idiot can see this... just breathe.... as hard as that may sound right this minute, just breathe.

__________________

chronig

decent pic but not nearly the same quality... your "render boxes" are tied up right now... blah blah blah, I knew you'd have some kind of quirky deadbeat designer excuse

Like others, I've been up and down the past year as well, after selling my main site for 50k and blowing the majority of that I went a good 6-8 months without making a decent income... luckily not to the point of losing electricity or anything like that. But I was basically working 10-13 hours a day weekends included trying to come up with something that will make money. Times have changed, before that I used to work 1-4 hours a week like a lazy bastard and cleared a decent income. After that 6-8 months of shit I only started turning things around recently.

If you don't want to end up working at the pizza pizza call center I'd stop with the bullshit long posts, excuses, and start producing shit like this that the guy posted:



It's pretty intriguing.... no more shit about your "r3nd3r b0xez" - if you don't have any fucking work, why are your "render boxes" tied up right now?

Here's a better question, why would you have to render something that high quality on the spot instead of already having examples in your portfolio?

Designers are so funny, especially ones in adult, deadbeats to the bitter end. Get a REAL portfolio with intriguing stuff like the example pic someone posted. I'm pretty sure you'll get some bites, enough to get you started until you can upgrade those "render boxes" and pump it out on a regular basis.

I haven't looked at any kind of artificial porn since I discovered Hentai in 1997 but I get the feeling if anything is going to sell it's going to be high quality shit like this pic example.

Man up or get in line with the other millions of North American graphic designers applying for pizzapizza/mcdonalds jobs since globalization took them off the map.

cybermike

Bump that pic sure looks fucking real and must take a really long time to do

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suesheboy

chronig that is insane!

Can you believe there is no watermark or artist signature?

Artists!

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Eldon Hoke

Exactly, I agree whole heartedly with this statement. But I feel for Loki. It does take a while to render shit in 3D, especially when you are going for higher quality with complex lighting setups etc.

The example you showed me looks low poly, even the texturing is bad. The hair looks flat, there's no volume. Did you post process in Photoshop too?

But on a serious level, if you have been in this biz for over 10 years you should have amazing fucking skills by now, not mediocre.

The artists's work who I posted earlier has probably been in the field for a fraction of that time and she is making some amazing stuff.

I'm with Chronig on this one. If you want to make a career out of this, you better master your art. You need to develop your artistry and make something mind blowing every day. Step out your creative boundaries etc.

The adult biz has tight budgets nowadays, and most webmasters etc don't realize the work that goes into good design and in this case, 3D rendering. Sounds like you've been getting ripped off by greedy scumbags.

You could have been working for Pixar by now ..... money is not tight there, thats for sure.

Anyway, gonna post more inspiration for ya:-

Chris

I know exactly what you are talking about - i was able to get all my stuff from the company they had their reseller account with ... not sure why you couldnt?

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Chris

At the end of the day you will be hard pressed to find anyone willing to just give you a job when you've listed nothing but things that *havnt* worked for you in all the years you've been in this business. That does not instill alot of confidence in a potential employer. You've given excuses to as why things have sucked for you. Why you havn't been able to "make it".

You don't need a huge budget to make a program successful. That is just a flat out lie. OAInternet does pretty damn well and ive spent next to nothing on marketing to affiliates.

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Si

This is amazing quality

Loki

(I chopped up your post to keep this small)

I'm working (and have been working) on a custom order for Cybermike of 60 sets, so both of my working render boxes are tied up rendering stuff for his order.

WHY would I need to render something on the spot? because as I said prior I don't NORMALLY make stuff like what was posted by others. I make what is ordered, if my buyers want a style I produce it.

I'm not trying to make any excuses here but it takes 1-3 hours to render an image such as those posted above, and If I can't get a buyer to pay $500 for 800+ images of the quality I posted WHY would I waste 2-3 months making higher quality for less money?

I make what my buyers will buy, when everyone begged for "photoreal" content we made a package of 100 sets and hardly anyone touched it



SO yeah that stuff "looks amazing" but no one seems to want to pay for it.

I was given a 12 hour window to get all of my data, I focused on my content and the promo tools and tours first, plus I had a shit ton of mainstream clients websites I had to worry about as well, I got prolly 95% of all my shit back the missing 5% were bits and pieces of custom scripting....

To be honest at that time I had ZERO "coding" knowhow (sans html and a bit of java) I grab all the data I could and moved everything, and NONE of the members areas worked they were FILLED with error codes and whatnot, I had a few "coders" look over stuff and ALL THREE of them said it would need to be completely redone. did it? I dunno I just know everything was broken.

maybe I got too caught up in this thread playing "Justification Theater" but to the best of my knowledge I've only mentioned that I closed my program and sites due to the hosting issues / backend scripts, and that I'm going broke cause no one seems to want to pay their invoices, I'm not sure how that would or would not instill confidence as what type of a WORKER I would be.

And I never said you HAD to have a big budget, I pointed out I never had the KIND of money the big boys had nor did I have thousands and thousands of affils, so for me it made better business sense to supply those companies with content and let THEM grow the market for me, again don't see where that makes me look "bad"

-Loki-

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Eldon Hoke

What happened with you and Sextronix? Just out of curiosity ....

Did you supply them all the 3D content for example on:-

http://www.3dgirlfriends.com/nc/index.php

Do you do animation as well? Or just still images?

Loki

Long story short, I left Hentaibiz (part of the Sextronix companies) to get back to my own projects, I had people asking for content and I could not juggle both at that time, Even Emin (the owner) agreed that I would not be able to dedicate my time to both sufficiently. There was no ill will and everyone is still friends and I still talk to those guys from time to time.

All the content you see on those 3D sites tours are mine (or other artists I brought in) I do make both images and videos but videos take soo long I have more photo content for sale then video content.

-Loki-

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- LOL -

could you make some Mass Effect 3D porn?

thanks